DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Kevin Stefanski

The FO is probably figuring there will be more candidates to choose from at the end of the season. More coaches will become available. That's my guess.

That is undoubtedly true. Not sure that's a good enough reason in my books. Any DC appointed from within would be "interim".

Yeah, I don't really understand the "wait" approach at all.

Sure, there are more candidates at the end of the season... there are also more openings. You'd think we would know that since we are nearly always left at the altar. Besides, nobody's making you choose now just because you fire the guy now.

At least then every prospect who is thinking about it knows the door is wide open. It also gives others that may not have been considering a move a reason to question their allegiance to their current organization, especially if they have any history with people in our org.

And if you don't think "tampering" goes on, in one way or another, you're crazy. In many cases, these dudes start getting their ducks in a row waaay before the end of the season.

I believe that to a great extent you are correct. But then that's not what I said. Some men are natural leaders. People believe in them and follow them. People will fight like hell for them. But by far the vast majority of people aren't like that. Which is why you have great generals in the military. There are natural leader of men then there are those who are not. I'm seeing a team that is not motivated a lot of the time.


How has that been working out? You do remember how talented you said this team was going into the season, right? So then why are we 3-7? Lack of proper planning and or preparation? I mean you gave three reasons why teams win games and you've obviously claimed the talent is there. So which of these three are lacking and exactly who is it you claim is responsible for the game plans and having the team prepared?


That's the exact point I'm trying to make.


How long do you suggest people use patience when they see problems are not being addressed and corrected? Because I see it a lot the way you do. But at some point you're making the decision to keep wasting time on what's broken and not being fixed. There's a tipping point at a certain juncture.

I think Halsm has proven beyond any doubt he doesn't have a problem using that checkbook. The problem more seems to be that he has been writing a lot of the wrong people those checks.

Excellent post

Agreed. I don't understand the dislike for Jimmy Haslam. His outside business endeavors aside what exactly has he done to be disliked as he is. He had to be the one to give the okay to trade and then sign DW to that record and unprecedented, unpopular contract. He had to know he'd get grief from the other owners and everyone else especially considering the legal mess DW was in. He's trying to bring a winner here. That's what we all want. I had my reservations about trading for DW because of his alleged actions but what's done is done and this is what we have. We have no control over it. Is there any proof other than the DW situation that JH is interfering with the team? I haven't heard of any unless I missed something.

Are all our former coaches paid off yet? I think there were a couple times when three were on the payroll.

No doubt. My only point is that I don't think that would change anything. I don't think you could make any meaningful changes to scheme. We might be able to blitz more. Maybe that would do something positive. Then again, maybe not.

I just don't see much point in firing Woods just to satisfy an itch.

We also have to consider that when the change is made, it isn't going to be simply a DC or even defensive staff that is going to be changed. If only that is changed and we don't see major turnover in defensive personnel, a staff change isn't going to do much, and that is part of the reason why I don't think just putting everything on Wood's plate is the answer.

Our D line sucks. Our backers are pretty weak, and our safeties suck. If we don't do something about that, the team might as well name either of us defensive coordinator.

The deficiencies at the defensive side of the ball are glaring, both in talent and scheme. Our DL is incredibly soft and I think our LBs are as blah as it gets.

In terms of the secondary, that’s where i see total miscommunication and lack of either knowing what to do or caring enough to do it.

A few questions. Anyone know how many other teams run the same scheme we do? Can someone tell me what the 49ers run? Would people still say the scheme sucks if over half the snaps in the NFL were run w/the same scheme as we use? Wanna know what the main difference between SF and us is? It's not the scheme, folks. It's that they have two monster DTs that create havoc and two kick ass LBers that make a ton of plays. This allows the secondary to sit back and play the ball. They had a great segment on this yesterday on NFL Live.

Rarely do you see me question NFL coaches. Wanna know why? It's because they know way more about football than I do. Yet, I read posts from multiple posters on here daily, such as the OP of this thread who don't know jack squat about the Xs and Os and they complain about scheme and play calling. It's a freaking joke. But, a cruel joke because these know-nothings are championing men losing their livelihood. Men w/wives and children. Men who have dedicated their entire lives to the game. Classy.

LMAO - you talk about "classy" after an personal attacking post like this? You are a joke - as if people expressing an opinion on a message board is "championing" anything.

As for Woods and him as a coach - it matters not what scheme he runs, he can run the same scheme as the best defense in the NFL but if he doesn't coach it correctly, if players don't know their assignments, if he constantly calls bad play calls in situations .... it does not matter what the rest of the NFL thinks or does or does not do with their 'base' defense. When a Superbowl winning QB tells the world the Browns D (Woods D) is easy to dissect and attack every play .... maybe it's worth paying attention to?

Wow - so bad takes and outright lies in a lot of your posts - but this ranks up there with spamming the boards calling posters "evil" for an entire inebriated afternoon or PM'ing posters threatening them with legal action. smh

IMO if we just had 2 topflight DTs on our team it would make our D decidedly better. We still might need a LB or 2 but I really believe our D would be much better with the guys we've got right now.

Agree - I think anyone/everyone agrees. Which begs the question how and why did KS/JW end up with the guys we have on the roster? Or how did they stay on the roster? But beyond that we have heard a lot from players about knowing assignments and confusion ... well coached defenses/units don't have those issues.

Exactly and I don't know how our coaches could have been satisfied with what we had at DT when the season began. Heck, we all saw this in the summer that we had this weakness at DT. They had to know this would be a problem for us stopping the run. We've had that problem many times before and our D couldn't get off the field. Someone messed up big time.

What Vers is missing is that scheme alone doesn't equal success. You don't have to be an expert to hear a player explain that the players are confused and don't know what they're supposed to be doing. You can have the greatest scheme in the world and have the experience to deserve a shot at the job. But implementing that scheme where the success of that scheme shows up on the field of play is an entirely different animal.

That's what separates those qualified to deserve a shot at such a job from those who succeed at that job. Many great football minds have lacked the ability to transfer their knowledge onto the field of play via their players. But I guess we should all ignore what we've been seeing and now beginning to hear first hand.

By this rationale every coach in the NFL is good. That doesn't make any sense.

What.does make way more sense is Stefanski is about as incompetent as they come and doesn't deserve to be the head coach of a football team. I want him fired so bad I can't see straight. I want him fired for making me watch his poorly coached team then acting like I'm an idiot in pressers. I want him fired for wasting another year of so many talented players careers. He's a joke. A clown. A guy who's picture should be next to the term "Peter principle". I don't care about him, his wife, kids, nothing. I care about watching winning football. When you don't prioritize winning you deserve to be fired. It's pretty simple. Screw him. I'll help pack the uhaul.

KS is guaranteed $20million... just another fake agenda and contrived narrative

Kev Stefanski's stats as a OC and play caller is more then good but we're still 3-7 and if we end up less then 0.5 then it's hard to describe this season in other terms then a failure. Berry should take the majority of the blame but I suspect he's a coward and will hide behind sacking his DC.


Berry
Woods
Stefanski

In that order.

Do you realize that you are in agreement w/the likes of 888, Pit, WSU, etc? Think about that for a minute. LOL

Rather than the football God of the board, right?

And here I thought we liked talking football and differing opinions are a good thing. More lies by a narcissistic old man who acts like the mom of an 8th grade cheerleader...who didn't make the squad.

Some know more than others about football, like someone said- if we, posters, were so smart we'd prove to owners we need a shot at "their jobs"- HC, DC, OC, ST- I agree with those who call for folks being held accountable- HC isn't really HC for outside- he's mostly involved with O- and it's been pretty good for years--but, bottomline- he's responsible for whole thing and it has sucked collectively. The players play- but if they can't figure out all the special "reads" and we lose games at end for stupid stuff- that sucks. All teams have weaknesses, Berry and company thought passing more critical than run D- it has cost us. Haslams need to make a decision. Having continuity only good when results support the status quo. Go Browns!!! sigh, another lost season.

Rish, for the record...............>I was replying to a series of posts about our defense and Woods.

That doesn't change the fact that I completely disagree w/your evaluation of Stefanski, but it's important I clarify my post because I keep reading posts that say our defensive scheme is trash. I ask..........how would any of those guys even know that? How do they know it isn't a talent issue? When you see two DTs getting blown back 5+ yards off the ball on a consistent basis.......is that really a schematic issue? I just think guys like the OP are full of crap. Plain and simple.

First off , nice thread to read . I think alot of our problems begin with no-one being held accountable. In life you get what you accept. Players not held accountable, coaches not held accountable, GM not held accountable and most of all ownership not held accountable.

Oh I certainly agree that coaches in the NFL know more about the game of football than any poster on this board could even come close to. But then so do many, many people who have tried and failed at being DC, OC position coaches and HC's in the NFL. If just "knowing the game" decided which people made good coaches the success rate among coaches would be extremely high. But then why isn't it?

And the answer as to why is a very simplistic one. That's because once you get a job at one of these coaching positions you must also be the leader of men. And I'm not as much talking about Stefanski here even though as you mentioned, it's he who is responsible for hiring this entire football staff and having final say over the game plan on both sides of the ball.

Having a great scheme and being knowledgeable about the game doesn't mean you can teach players how to run and execute your scheme. It doesn't mean you can get what's in your head to translate onto the field during game time. It doesn't mean your communication and teaching skills rise to the level of having a successful unit or team. That's where the disconnect seems to be coming from.

And being a HC is even more difficult. It means you must have the ability to oversee your entire coaching staff at every level. Because no matter how hard people try and deflect, when it comes to the HC, that's where the responsibility lies.

Absolutely correct. But how good/bad they are is not based on how they do compared to posters on this board but rather to the to the other coaches in the league.

Agree with you ant pit.... you know what is interesting, we have allowed the narrative to be changed. I don't remember anyone saying the scheme sucks, I remember lots of posters saying Joe Woods is a trash defensive coordinator. Notice how someone is now framing this discussion about scheme. The agenda and bull crap never stops and maybe that's because someone was supporting woods 100% and telling everyone they were wrong, and that's clearly and indefensible position anymore

We should see if Indy hires somebody else and then go get Jeff Saturday.

jk, Ski's not going anywhere. Woods might not even be fired.

Woods better be fired come hell or high water.

The man is a disgrace. A menace.

I imagine that is the plan at this point, but who knows? Woods always comes on strong late in the season.

Your summarizing is spot on.

I wish more people would move on from micro analyzing things like scheme, routs, formations, player/coach, mistakes or whatever the flavor of the day is and start focusing on the bigger picture. The Browns major problem are structural and is a consequence of poor leadership.

Look at our results the last 3 years and ask yourself if we’re trending upwards or downwards?
Is the quality of our roster improving, standing still or is it declining?
Do we see improvements in the FO’s decision making?

Andrew Berry has to take the majority of the blame that our roster is shockingly unbalanced.
Kevin Stefanski has to accept serious criticism due his lack of action and not holding his staff accountable for our declining results.
Joe Woods contributions speaks for itself.

Being 3-7, players showing signs of not being 100% committed, coaches not up to standard and nobody are hold accountable is without a doubt poor leadership.

Kevin Stefanski has a lot’s of good qualities but his leadership and decision making must be questioned. As a HC his responsibilities is wider the just saying he’s frustrated and being our play caller.

Gosh, I can’t see Woods surviving (or Priefer). I’d be surprised and disappointed if they do

Well stated, even with his Coach of Year award, I'm not convinced our HC is a good head coach- his results aren't there with the talent he has. I think he short changes other aspects of game due to his love of O. I'd force him to give up play calling and spend the time overseeing his total staff. Go Browns!!! Delegating is great, but who takes the blame- the HC.

I don't know what is going to happen for sure, but I do feel the last 6 games will play a big part and determine what decisions will be made after the season. If we start playing better on O and things become more consistent there, then KS will not be fired. I don't think he's going anywhere no matter, but we'll see. On D, things have to be changed that's obvious with a new DC and some new players and we know where we need them. The one thing I'm concerned about is DW coming in with a banged-up O-line. We won't be able to access the O and DW fairly with some starters out.

What is missed in this entire discussion about scheme is the players to play the scheme. If, in this example the Browns are missing that asset, you don't have the players that are suited to run the scheme then you develop a scheme that takes advantage of your players skill set. This is coaching 101 and Stefanski needs to repeat the course multiple times. It doesn't matter if every team in the NFL is running the 4-2-5 scheme (only 11 at last count), if you don't have the players with the skill set you sure the hell don't just run the scheme anyway. This is called, get ready for it, making adjustments and building your defense/offense to the skill sets your players possess. Example, you don't bench a Jackson or a Hurst because they are not your a-typical drop back QB. You alter your offensive scheme to take advantage of their skill set. Because Atlanta and Baltimore became the poster children for the running QB, every team in the NFL is trying to fill that void now. It's not even a question if it's right or wrong, but you can't draft that type of player and expect them to play your standard old skill set. Stefanski now has two consecutive years of failure as the HC because he refuses or doesn't know how to adjust the scheme to the skill sets of the players he has on the roster. Only an idiot would trot out his players week after week playing the same 4-2-5 defensive scheme when it's common knowledge that he doesn't have a single interior defensive lineman or linebacker for that matter that is capable of playing that scheme.

As far as the talent issue presented, let's go back to Jackson for example. If Jackson had been forced by Baltimore to play in the same scheme as what was installed for Flacco or vice versa, would either of those guys been starting QB's? Really, is there a single person on this forum that believes that Jackson would still be starting in BAL if he was forced to play QB like a Brady, Rodgers, or Ryan? He would have been let go years ago. As a HC, you have to be able to adjust your scheme to the talent or skill set of the players you have on the roster. Stefanski has shown he can't adjust to anything whether it's the adjustments needed during every game or the adjustments needed due to the skill sets of his players. This is not going to change by firing Woods on any other coach on his staff because he's incapable of making those type of adjustments and having someone different following your scheme doesn't mean a thing if you don't have the players capable of playing the scheme.

Sad part is that it will probably be status quo going into next year with Berry and Stefanski until about week 7-8 before the firing begins that should start this January meaning another wasted year of the talent the Browns have because they have a HC incapable of scheme adjustment's that no one wants to recognize. It's not the scheme, it's the inability of the HC to adjust the scheme to his players skill set.

Excellent points.
We were only 4 points away from taking kc out of the playoffs.
Now we are in last place everyone needs to be hd accountable.

Seems like anticipating having our pick of the litter.