DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns News & Notes cont.

This has been explained to him multiple times. He's agenda posting, like normal.

D4...how did the Browns defense get this way..?

...and is there any way to fix what's wrong..?

Can we depend on the present management to judge their own contribution to the problem..?

mac, what choice do we have?

We root for the team. We don't run it. It's a freaking game. We do have the choice to no longer root for the team and/or support it. That would make sense if one is so disgusted by what they see. I guess we could be like Pit and a few others, who no longer root or support the team, but come on here solely to trash every move the team makes and degrade other posters who still root for the team, but most of us are not wired w/that way.

Being a fan of a team doesn't put food on the table. It doesn't protect us from criminals. It doesn't provide shelter. It doesn't define us as to how moral we are. It's a game that is for entertainment purposes. It would be different f we were players, coaches, FO personnel, etc. But, we are not. We are just fans. No one is forcing us to support the Cleveland Browns or any team, for that matter.

I tried to answer. There is nothing you and I can really do other than complain.

I would trade Ward in a minute for whatever we can get. Newsome and Emerson are good enough and we can find a third guy. Ward has been terrific, but this year he has not helped at all, and we need the cap space. I just doubt anyone would take on that contract.

And you're spot on, Vers. All we can do is cheer and/or complain. It kind of sucks when we turn on each other and get personal. We're just helpless fans with our opinions and passion. It seems like even if this team ever put it all together, we would be nitpicking each other about who was right and who was wrong.

Yep we cut my man Porter Gustin

Lousy DT's injuries to our DE's, the loss of Mckinley, Malcolm Smith, and Walker to injury to start.

j/c...

Gross. It almost seems impossible to be this bad at stopping the run, but then you look at roster construction and it's been largely ignored.

The Browns defensive numbers last year at the end of the
Season were very misleading
The scheduled featured a great deal of QBs that were rookies
I e Justin Fields....QBs on its last legs I e Big Ben....backup QBs
I.e Tyler Hundley, Brandon Allen But when it faced QBs with actual talent ,
The defense was easy to score ...Hebert and Mahomes
Had their way. But Browns fans just look at the bottom line
Number and never do any in depth research.
So this defense was fools gold. And this season reinforces
That thought.

Mac, i don’t have the answers .. all I know is we are a constantly losing franchise. It’s a bad cycle where losing leads to more losing.

In terms of Ward, I think he got paid and stopped giving the effort (and maybe effort in film study too).

If I were the FO: I’d keep Stefanski, but want a new DC and ST coach. I’d tell Kevin to maximize Watson like he has done for Baker and brissett. And I’d do my best to get the best DT/DE/S possible, whatever it takes.

I'd say that there is a very good chance of this happening.

anyone have an idea what caused the decline in the Brownz defense? :LOL:
HA.
got rid of Mayfield, a 4th year @b who waz your own.
got rid of Malik Jackzon and Malik Mcdowell, where did takk mkinley go?

3. Got rid of Rashard Higgins and, Jarvis Landry and then OBJ too.
4. Got rid of Troy Hill, and in those orderz.
Changing the @b effectz the defense the mozt of those 4^ because the way the gamez play out

2. changing the middle of the DL effectz the D 2nd mozt becaue of the way the running defense playz out.
3. Getting rid of Troy hill becaue he waz a vetran which would help other playerz define their rolez
4. getting rid of Higginz and Landry because of time other teamz had to develop against playing against your own pazzing game.

You don't have a defense when you can't get first downz with your own offense. it'a a zymbotic relationship.

Free agency ruined the NFL.

Yes, Njoku is the 3rd best ranked TE of all the TE's that have played enough snaps to qualify. That will most likely change very shortly due to missed games and his current questionable status. The other issue that might occur is because the sample will be smaller, the numbers move up or down in bigger chunks with a good or bad game, so the jury is still out on Njoku. Same situation with Pocic. He's the 2nd ranked center of all centers that have enough snaps to qualify but being on IR with almost half the season to go will most likely take the ranking away but not the grade he's achieved for a half season.

Anthony Schwartz has 7 targets, not catches TARGETs on the year so far.

Analyze how a 3rd round pick, doesn't even get targeted,

But the entire offense seems to run through Harrison TE, 3rd, Bryant, every week for every year since 20I6.

Analyze how the Browns have a WR coach, O'shea but noboby except maybe 3 playerz can even catch anything, I mean all 3 TE'z had a drop last game.

no wonder, they lose so often.
The Browns are to the NFL what Arizona is to college football.

Elliot and Togiai have been rated consistently as the worst DTs in the ENTIRE league. I mean come on, there has to the Practice squad or waiver wire players better than those 2. You statistically cannot get any worse.

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland...-rushing-failures-198378664/#198378664_1

OBR Film Room: Analyzing The Browns Recent Rushing Attack Failures
ByJAKE BURNS Nov 24, 10:06 AM
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(Photo: Getty)
The Browns' offense continues to boast some of the better metrics in the league overall, but over the course of the last two weeks, they have been missing a key element of what makes them among the best. They have failed to run the football in the same successful fashion they did over the first eight weeks, and the byproduct of that failure is a one-dimensional approach that has hindered their success rate.

Through the first 8 weeks of the season, the Browns were rushing the ball extremely well. They had the league's second-highest overall rush EPA (0.11) behind only the Ravens and the second-highest design running back run EPA (0.08) behind only the Raiders. Over the last two weeks in games against the Dolphins and Bills, the Browns have amassed the 27th-ranked rush EPA (-0.30) and only put up 123 yards on 36 carries - one of which was a 33-yard run. The run game efficiency is broken and fixing it has to be the primary focus in Berea this week.

The group had 19 rushes of two yards or less over these last few weeks and 8 rushes of negative yards as opposed to just 18 total negative rushes in the season's first eight weeks. The -20 yards is the third most yards lost to designed runs in the NFL these two weeks. One would think opposing defenses are loading the box, but Nick Chubb--the Browns' primary ball carrier--is seeing the same 32 percent of 8-man boxes over the last two weeks as he did in the team's first eight games.

Kevin Stefanski touched on the difficulty of rushing the last few weeks following the loss in Detroit to the Bills. “It was not good. We have been better. We all expect better. It is never one person. We have to run the ball better. When we are not running the ball well in early downs, it obviously affects your game. It affects your ability to stay in manageable down and distances, second down, and those types of things. We have to look at it and have to get it fixed.”

When watching the games from the television broadcast angle it is tough to see who failed and why. It's basically results-based viewing. This discourse here is meant to show you the breakdowns and how they impacted everything around them. As usual, as Stefanski noted above, it is not just one player or one problem. It is different often snap to snap and the lack of sync in the group is obvious to see.

Let's track these snaps as best we can.

ONE FAILURE LEADS TO ANOTHER
When running wide zone, there are often times when offensive linemen are asked to reach block on tough assignments. This means a guard, center, or tackle will have to work like crazy to get inside of a player with a pre-snap alignment cheated in the direction of the rush attempt. The only effective way to do this is to get an initial double team and then work to fight into a position on the exchange that allows the disadvantaged player to get into position. These double teams have names: ACE for center and guard, DEUCE between guard and tackle, and TREY between tackle and tight end.

The Browns have been failing to cut off inside alignments for two weeks. The examples here will show you the single problem that leads to more problems behind it. Watch here as Hjalte Froholdt (No.72) at center misses the shade who stunts back inside. This causes the entire course for Nick Chubb to change and yields a loss in yards.


The Browns try to hit the perimeter here with a pin/pull concept, but they are asking a wide receiver (Peoples-Jones, No.11) to block down on an inside-aligned Von Miller (No.40). This is asking a lot of a receiver blocking down on an EDGE here and it blows up as the upfield pursuit of Miller forces Chubb to retreat and the Browns lose yards on the rush.


An example here of failing to secure inside. This is simple wide zone from the Browns and between Joel Bitonio and Froholdt, they fail to secure the first level defender (No.92) before climbing to the linebacker and the upfield pursuit runs the run. Again, the timing is off.


Yet another example of a failed double team. Without a defender to threaten Jedrick Wills outside, he never alters course to work back inside and help seal the edge. His toiling without work leaves the edge vulnerable and thus no gain. If he simply turns back to help Bitonio with his man (No.92) then you are looking at a nice gain.


This is simple but a clear example of one failure leading to another. Watch as a passive approach from Teller at right guard allows Ed Oliver (No.91) to win upfield and make the tackle for a loss in the backfield. This is a pump/draw scheme meant to encourage upfield rush but Teller turns his body too far laterally to allow Oliver to quickly turn past him and decipher the scheme.


BACKSIDE FAILURES
There have been several examples of the backside costing the Browns from breaking runs. The theory is always the front side of blocking schemes allows them to work while securing the backside of schemes is what allows them to break loose. The Browns have been failing on the backside of runs for a couple of weeks.

The first example here comes from the Dolphins game where the Browns are running left side wide zone. Watch as Teller and Conklin fail to work together to secure Christian Wilkins (No.94) before climbing to the linebacker. Conklin has no chance to get there on his own.


Browns get a great look here with right side wide zone, but Wills, despite being in a great initial position, fails to shield the backside 3-tech from getting down the line and causing disruption to the cut Chubb makes off the read. The tackle causes a fumble on what had a chance to be a 10+ yard gain if the backside was sealed off.


I am not sure if the Browns decide this pin/pull scheme is going to ignore the backside 1-tech (Wilkins, No.94) but he is untouched on the backside, and Conklin is left without a defender to climb. Attempting to cut Wilkins makes the most sense here, but he is untouched and stops Chubb down the line before this run can climb to the next level. Big play missed.


AGGRESSIVE LINEBACKERS
The last focus issue here is the handling of downhill linebackers. Miami's Jerome Baker and Buffalo's Matt Milano caused headaches all day for late-reacting Browns offensive lineman. This is something the Browns must rectify in the coming weeks.

The first example is in the Wildcat goal-line situation last week. Watch here as Teller is late out his stance at right guard and Milano (No.58) changes Chubb's course and causes him to bounce the run into a waiting Bills edge. If Milano was cut off, the path for Chubb is easy to see developing.


Browns go weak side wide zone and have the look they want. However, watch as Milano's aggressive path through the A-gap beats Teller's movement and he meets Chubb in the backfield. Again, if Milano is secured the hole is waiting for a big run.


Strong side wide zone against the Bills here again, and watch the two linebackers win into the gap. Milano spills it to the SAM linebacker (No.53) and Chubb has no answer in his course. Consistently seeing these linebackers beat Browns' interior linemen.


This is also not just limited to linemen. Here Pharoah Brown (No.84) has to down block on the MIKE linebacker, Jerome Baker, against the Dolphins. The counter scheme is set up perfectly with a tight lead following Bitonio's kick-out block but Baker bullies Brown in the hole and condenses the running lane and it goes for no gain outcome.


FINAL THOUGHTS
This is a concerning trend for the Browns. I feel as though you usually find this group prepared for outcomes in their scheme but the group is lacking a sense of spatial awareness for the types of angles they need in the scheme and what opposing defenders are doing to attack the concept. Outside of aggressive linebacker play, teams are slanting away from the movement at times to mess with the angle from wide zone, but these are nothing new. Teams have thrown these adjustments at them before.

7
COMMENTS
Last week the screen game started to help against the hyper-aggressive second level of the Bills, but there will need to be some answers in simple run concept. The Browns are at their best when they control the line of scrimmage and build off their run efficiency. If they lose that efficiency, they become an easy team to defend. Stefanski knows this and the Browns will have their hands full with a very talented front seven of the Buccaneers coming to town this weekend.

"On defense, (Buccaneers Head) Coach (Todd) Bowles has always done it," Stefanski noted this at his media session yesterday. "A great, great defense. Physical, big. Up front, stout. Long at corner. They will blitz you from every angle. They can play coverage. They do it well. It is an impressive group. Again, good players throughout that front."

Getting Deshaun Watson back at quarterback will help these situations where the offense leans heavily on throwing the ball, but the Browns have paid big money in cap and assets to be able to run the ball with success. they simply have to do it to be their best version. How Stefanski, offensive coordinator Alex Van Pelt, and offensive line coach Bill Callahan get them back on track will be something worth closely watching this week against that Bucs front. They will badly need it to keep this one close


This does highlight how poor soame of the run designs have been. DPJ being asked to block Von Miller? Really? Also showcases how much it hurt when Pocic went down.

The frustrating thing is I think most of us could have predicted our DTs to be among the worst in the NFL all the way back in June

I dunno, I don't think itz that complicated. Ethan Pocic in my mind waz a real NFL center, and zo waz the Union Rep from 2 yearz ago.
But, Nick Harriz and the guy who replaced Pocic, weren't real, (real experienced, and really tested) centerz, and, I think a center iz really really really important to effective running gamez. And, of course coaches won't want to zay it'z all about one person.

Thanks for posting the Burns article. Very educational.

This is an excellent breakdown of the first 3 quarters of the Buffalo game.

Thanks Davey for posting the video. Very informative. I've made my way through about half of it. Puts things into perspective for those that actually want to know what is occurring.

Interesting, but not surprising.

Jacoby Brizzet, 0 tdz, one int in the first half against Tampa Bay.
turnoverz.

Good win by the Browns. let the Watson era begin.

Yep

Bitonio had a nice interview at the end of the game that expressed their gratitude of Brissett. Basically saying that he deserved more than 4 wins, which is probably true

I think it's without doubt true. Brissett has played exceedingly well outside of a couple of late game blunders early on. And not only has he played above expectations - it's clear that he is an all round world class human/individual.

We don't have to worry about seeing that at the QB position for a while.

I wonder if Chubb did it all four seasons in 12 games?

In a way he did,

2019 he played all 16 games and had 1,175 yards after the first 12 games.
2020 he only played in 12 games as he was on IR for 4 games and he rushed for 1,067 yards.
2021 he was inactive for 2 games due to injury but in the first 12 games that he was active for he rushed for 1,017 yards and that includes being active but not playing in 1 game due to injury.

Thanks for the information.

Jim Brown's records from the browns site: Brown owns team records for most combined net yards (15,459), career rushing yards (12,312), most points in one season (126), career TDs (126), rushing TDs (106), most consecutive games scoring a TD (10) and most 1,000 yard seasons (seven).

How many of those records can Chubb break in Cleveland? I wouldn't mind him sending old Jim into relative obscurity.

Congrats to Chubb