DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Kevin Stefanski

Well when you put it like that. Frown

Thank you have a nice day.

Ohio State looked like they were running the Stefanski offensive/defensive schemes today. Offense: great first 25 plays and no adjustments to what Michigan defense adjusted too after that and Defense: Did those Ohio Stat safeties go to the Browns minicamp? How many times does it take for a defense to get burned before you adjust? One of the best backs in the country sidelined and the team gets held to 10 yds rushing in the first half and then explodes for 242 yds rushing in the second half against a team with no answers. It was like watching the Browns replays all over again the last 10 weeks.

Maybe there's something in the Ohio water?

Excellent post
I am retired military in Jackson hole Wyoming so you would know better
Than me.
Truthfully if the front office goes can this team be straightened out in a off
Season?

The nucleus is there but the HC leadership is so lacking it's a disgrace. On the surface it would look like Berry is doing a somewhat good job but his refusal to address WR and DT in the last off season is very disturbing. Then when you look at some of the contracts he's signed players too and then their subsequent performance - somethings missing that a good GM shouldn't be missing. The other issue I just don't get is the hanging on to players when it's clearly obvious they are not making the grade. Elliott, Schwartz, and Felton just to name a few.

Here's my biggest concern. Last year Stefanski kept playing a seriously injured QB that a Pee Wee League coach could see was struggling due to the effects of the injury. The QB that led your team to its first playoff win in 20 plus years as a top 5 QB was hung out to dry instead of pulling the guy - just a piss poor coach. Stefanski is the HC, it is his and only his decision who plays or doesn't every week. This year, the defense has sucked so bad that it is very near being the worst in the league. The press, some on this forum, and obviously the FO are all deflecting the blame from who should be accountable in Stefanski to the DC who's actually running Stefanski's created defensive scheme.

So, for 2-years now the Browns have waisted the talents of Garrett, Clowney, Chubb, Teller, Bitonio and other quality players because of Stefanski's total lack of HC leadership. Now the Browns are getting our 230M guaranteed QB back from a sexual predator suspension for a HC who has regressed every year he's coached the team - FACT. If the Browns keep Stefanski, what happens in 2023 if the Browns start out 3-6 with our 230M QB? With the contracts the Browns have in place and those coming up, the win window for the Browns is the next year or two at best before there will have to be a serious roster adjustment. If the Browns go with Stefanski and they actually do struggle next year (better chance than not considering what he's produced as the HC the last two years), that will be 3 years of wasting some of the best talent in the entire NFL. So, the question is: if you had 2 billion dollars invested in the Browns, are you willing to take that gamble again next year after your HC has failed you miserably the last two years? IMHO, you have to win when you have the opportunity to win. That means using FA, the draft, and your current players to present your HC with the best opportunity to win within that very small win window due to the NFL parity. As of now, the jury says Berry and Stefanski have both failed miserably in the last 2 years and if I'm a betting man - I wouldn't bet to see anything different in 2023 if they're still here because they just blew the last 2 years and have never adjusted. Just the facts of observing them in a result driven league!

People have their own opinions about KS and that's fine but the one thing I've seen with this team is that they're still fighting and haven't given up on the season. I believe that reflects on the HC. They play hard for him!!

I disagree with this. The fact is even after yesterday the Browns are 4-7, looked listless and uninspired in many of those losses, have had multiple reported players only meetings, players calling out the coaching staff in the media, and a bottom eighth defense that looks like they aren't prepared as much as they might be untalented.

I think yesterday's game was the players playing for themselves and Brissett.

I totally agree. This team has not given up. They do play hard. There was the Miami game where the D didn't show up, but the team has fought hard all year long. Anyone saying otherwise is just chasing their agenda.

Anyone watching the performances this year will have seen wildly different levels of preparedness, effort, confusion, communication, finger pointing and angst at the performance (by players and fans). To say otherwise is a flat out lie. Effort and desire and attitude has been an issue in more than the Miami game.

They battled... this is such a low bar. They are pros getting paid millions to get out there and play hard for him. It's what they are supposed to do, and losing is never a reason to mail it in with any NFL GM, so their futures count on playing hard and not giving up. A very low bar indeed.

Holly crap people - are we that desperate for a winner that you'll just completely ignore what has really happened to this team the last 2-years? In 2020, the Browns were 8-3 at this stage of the season. In 2021, the Browns were 6-5 at this stage of the season playing with an injured QB and a HC to afraid to do his job bench the guy with posters on this forum screaming for the QB's head. In 2022, the Browns are 4-7 with only 5 teams in the entire league with less wins to this point with 4 of those just 1 game behind us. All of this happening with a so-called backup QB that has had now 48 career starts and you're trying to say the HC has exhibited great team leadership while playing OC with an inferior non-injured QB these first 11 games? Really?

Statistically speaking, Brissett preformed about as well as expected considering his actual starting experience. However, comparing those 11 games to the first 11 in 2020 and 2021, just some quick comparison numbers:

Completion %: Mayfield 2021 @ 64.9%, Brissett 2022 @ 64.1%, Mayfield 2020 @ 61.2%
Yards gained per attempt: Mayfield 2021 @ 7.993, Mayfield 2020 @ 7.170, Brissett 2022 @ 7.087
TD Passes: Mayfield 2020 @ 17, Brissett 20220 @ 12, Mayfield 2021 10
INT's: Mayfield 2020 @ 7, Mayfield 2021 @ 6, Brissett 2022 @ 6
TD/INT Ratio: Mayfield 2020 @ 2.43, Brissett 2022 @ 2.00, Mayfield 2021 @ 1.67
Sacks: Mayfield 2020 @ 17, Brissett 2022 @ 24, Mayfield 2021 @ 27
Fumbles: Mayfield 2020 @ 3, Mayfield 2021 @ 5, Brissett 2022 @ 6
QBR: Mayfield 2020 @ 101.86, Mayfield 2021 @ 101.44, Brissett 2022 @ 95.65

Statistically speaking, Brissett did not perform better than an injured Mayfield from 2021. People can have their own opinion but statistically, Brissett being better than an injured Mayfield is a false narrative. The other false narrative then would have to be that Stefanski has not elevated the play of the QB's since he's been here in Cleveland because the H/C's W/L record challenges that narrative.

Back to the topic, there's one constant that is occurring to the Browns. Now, in 2021, all the woes of the team were placed on the injured QB play. Right or wrong, at this point in the season, in 2021 the Browns were two games worse than the previous year. That upset the fans and obviously the FO/HC because they decided to take a different route at QB in 2022. In 2022, at this point in the season, the Browns are two games worse than the previous year and 4 games worse than 2020. Though statistically speaking the QB play has not actually improved, the blame game this year is strictly focused on the DC Woods and the ST coach. The only real constant that is evident both years of regression is that Stefanski is the HC. In neither year, to this point, has the blame been placed at the feet of the person who is actually accountable for this team falling off the cliff - Stefanski.

So, what do the Browns have to look forward to in 2023. Looking at Watson's past performance:

There's no question that Watson is an upgrade to the position. However, upgrade at the position doesn't equate to wins if you have other issues and the Browns have other major issues.

In 2019, Watson made the Pro Bowl as the 5th QBR rated QB leading the Texans to 10 wins and a playoff appearance.

In 2020, Watson made the Pro Bowl as the 3rd QBR rated QB but the Texans fell to 4-12 on the season losing their HC after 4 games and eventually Watson refusing to play in 2021. The defense for the Texans was ranked 29th in 2020 and 22nd in 2019 both slots performing better than this year's Browns defense.

Watson was not able to elevate his team even with his improved play from 2019 to 2020 as they performed 6 wins worse than the previous season. Keep in mind, the HC Bill O'brien only had 1 losing season in his first 6 full years in Houston (fired after an 0-4 start in 2020) and was in the playoffs 4 of the other 5 years (a 66.7% playoff appearance rate).

Final point, IMHO - Stefanski's poor leadership and HC deficiencies will be exposed in 2023. That most likely will lead to his dismissal mid-season thus ruining another year of our best players and playoff opportunity because Berry won't make the hard move that's screaming at him which unfortunately will probably cost him his position too.

Steve you made some good points, and you could be right about KS in 2023 but there's no denying KS got the most out of Baker to this point and also Jacoby. At least give him credit for that. Let's hope he can get better production out of DW than we've already seen. He's probably a better offensive mind than anyone DW had in Houston.

Haha!

" you say " the only real constant in the regression of the last 2 yearz is K. Stefanski. ???
No.

There is a constant that the Browns WR room has gotten worse year over year from 2020- to 2022.
especially if you consider Jarviz Landry may have been hiding an injury for much of early 202I, and the end of 202I also.

In FACT, in some wayz I can hold the opinion that the Browns, and even ANY NFL TEAM, can have their success measured with some accuracy based only only ONLY
on the abilitiez of their WR, and WR's as a group at a given point- area- or timeframe- of time.

AND, ANY_______ Any success the Brownz have had in 40 yearz

...
has coincided with their/them having a better WR group at that time, than at other times.

Back to Kevin Stefanski.

So, what you're saying is last year's (2021) regression was due to the Browns #1 WR crying like a baby while participating in only 6 of 9 games and demanding a trade? That the #2 was playing injured and hiding that fact from his HC who obviously didn't notice his new #1 WR was injured the vast majority of the year with no real #3 or TE? That in your opinion the Browns or any NFL team's success can be measured with some accuracy based only Only on the abilities of their WR, and WR's as a group at any given point - or timeframe - of time?

Interesting - you realize of course that your opinion on the regression of the 2021 Browns team is in direct conflict with the forum's "Football Geru" who has blamed the team's woes in 2021 on the QB don't you? Does that mean in your opinion the Browns current woes from experiencing another regression in 2022 is directly related to the WR group again? Very interesting, thanks for the input.

Excellent point
Never let fact get in the way of a good emotion.

That's so profound, you probably should post it twice..........Again.

Nothing personal JD but I hate these kind of posts. If someone is ignoring or twisting a fact, by all means call them out. But my personal preference is that when doing that, the fact being ignores or twisted is laid out. Otherwise I am left to try and figure out which fact you are are referring to and I am just not well enough versed to to do so easily.

Just skip his posts.

j/c:

Earlier today, I read a post about that had the names of some top qbs in the league. I believe Watson, Herbert, and Burrow were mentioned. I was thinking of the Ranking the NFL QBs thread. My top ten was pretty close to the top 10s that some analysts and places like ESPN, coaches/GMs, etc

These are not in order, but most agree that the list included Mahomes, Allen, Brady, Rodgers, Burrow, Herbert, Watson, Lamar, Stafford, and R. Wilson.

This list has probably changed a bit, but consider this:

What would KC look like w/out Mahomes?
How about Buffalo w/out Allen?
TB w/out Brady?
Rodgers being out in GB?
Cinci w/out Burrow?
Chargers not having Herbert?
We have some evidence of Baltimore not having Lamar? They lost their final 5 games of the year last year after he was injured.
Rams w/out Stafford?
I can't mention Wilson in good faith.

Some of these teams are struggling this year w/those guys. Imagine GB w/out GB, though?

Yet, folks don't even want to consider what Stefanski has done w/out a top 10 qb? Just something to consider because I can almost guarantee you that teams like KC, Buffalo, Cinci, etc would not be all that w/out their star qb.

I get what you are saying, and about half agree because Brissett played at an abnormally high level most of that time. How many polls/articles had him in the top ten QBs? So technically, he had a top QB. But the gist of what you are saying is spot on. KS has had a rough year, but he's not going anywhere yet, IMO. He'll be here next year for sure unless Haslam loses his mind. But then again, that's what I thought about Baker being the QB.

Your point about Jacoby is a good one. I debated internally about mentioning how well he played and that the other teams would not get the same level of performance from their backups. See Case Keenum in Buffalo. Hell, I can't even remember the names of the guys in Cinci and KC.

In the end, I think that we have to admit that the other qbs would not play as well as Jacoby did, but on the other hand, perhaps Stefanski should get some credit for getting JB to play as well as he did?

j/c,

Could Kevin do a better job at times calling plays? Yes ... and he has made some nice calls too, but I don't foresee a need to replace him unless he is going to fall on his sword so to speak for some of his assistant coaches who have been consistently bad at their trade when compared to their peers.

We all have that mindset with players ... if we are consistent then we should hold our coaches to the same standards we do our players imo...

Watson is certainly not a top 10 QB now. He may get back to that level however that remains to be seen. Stefanksi has done great at getting the most out of the QB's he has had to work with. He has a good O scheme. Now if those were all one needed to do in order to be a complete HC in the NFL that would be great.

I'm by no means calling for his head or asking he be fired. But trying to claim the things he does so well are even close to all of the things required of an NFL HC I find to be somewhat misleading coming from someone who actually knows the game of football.

He is 25-22 as our HC and could easily be 30-22 or better by using the run game with Chubb more often ...

So who would you say is responsible of why he is 25-22 instead of 30-22 or better? I'm not sure the post you made is a ringing endorsement.

Stefanski is not good. He's average. I'm not even sure he's a head coach.

I agree, PM. Not just that he could be better for W/L, but he should be better. Should have run more, and used Hunt more as well. As far as my regard for him as HC, I am not sure yet. The biggest question I have is if he is learning from his mistakes. We seem to lose regularly, about half the time. We seem to do it in similar ways repeatedly; one loss feels much like the previous losses did. Seems rather like Sundays are Groundhog Days over and over again. All anecdotal, but I feel it is valid. Has he learned and improved his record? Not sure I have a ringing endorsement.

Here's something I paid attention to in the game. It was obvious that Watson was struggling and uncomfortable. Houston has the worst run defense. Several times on first down Chubb was getting chunk yardage. It was the third or fourth drive before Stefanski called back to back running plays. I mean have some type of pulse on the game and your players. This isn't just a recipe you're following. You're not a robot. Your players aren't robots.

omg.
perfection.


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words matter.
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*edit*
Apologies for the thread divergence.
We now return to our regularly-scheduled broadcast...

A head coaching change is needed. Haslam and Berry should go after Detroit Lions offensive coordinator Ben Johnson.

Quite a few things about Stefanski concern me but the one that continues to befuddle me, is this... we go for it a lot on 4th down and I'm ok with that. My problem is that Stefanski doesn't seem to plan ahead. It's like if we have a 3rd down situation where he's likely to go for it on 4th down, he doesn't call plays like he has 2 plays to get it.. he calls the 3rd down play and if that doesn't work, he panics and calls something out of character on 4th down...

Never more evident than our first drive against Cincy.. 3rd and 1 at the 25.... if you are going to go for it, great, you have 2 plays to get 1 yard. First play we have Chubb and Hunt in the backfield together.. cool. So we use Chubb as the decoy to the outside and run the quick handoff right up the middle to Hunt. Right where you would need our 3rd string center to clear out Reader to make a good path to the first down. That doesn't seem smart to me. Don't know, just my opinion I might have tried to avoid that match-up. It didn't work. So what do we do on 4th down and 1? We put Brissett in for Watson and throw a corner fade route 30 yards into the endzone like the game is about to end and we have 1 play to score.. we needed 1 yard and in typical fashion, Nick Chubb never once touched the ball.

One of many glaringly bad habits he has not learned from.

I thought the call for JB to throw to DPJ was an excellent call. He was wide open. Jacoby missed the throw.

SF did something similar right before the half. Instead of kicking a FG, they had the last pick in the entire NFL draft throw a deep TD pass to a WR. Similar play calls in similar situations. Execution means nothing. It's all about play calling. One guy is a genius and the other a dunce.

I am not picking and this is more of a general statement about many, many fans, but I have always been amazed how many fans who have never played or coached think they are so much smarter than NFL coaches when it comes to football.

Edit to add that Chubb is not a good short yardage runner. He's a very good back, but he's a one-cut, wide-zone RB. He is not a short yardage back. His forte is not plowing straight ahead.

````````````````

Not picking but that superiority complex strikes again.

I didnt love the 3rd down call before the 4th down call either

Good coaches coach players so that they CAN execute...trash coaches make excuses and have players who don't execute.

I don't have a big problem with the call. My point of view is more along the lines of DC's. You have two plays to pick up a yard, I would have done things differently. Obviously, during your game-planning, you're putting together a plan for short-yardage situations in the opponent's territory.

3rd and 1... bring in Brissett then and attempt a 30 yard pass. If you're trying to capitalize on the fact the the defense will be caught off-guard and expecting a sneak -- throw the 30 yard pass a play before it will end your possession. Failure? Rush to the line on 4th and 1, hard count, send Brissett on the sneak, where he is very successful. Hindsight? Of course, but it's not something I sat around and pondered. My immediate reaction was "that would have been a real nice call on 3rd and 1.

No big deal either way with me, however, thinking that there won't be scrutiny upon failure is silly.

People criticizing a coach who sends in a backup QB and throws a 30 yard pass on 4th and 1 has nothing to do with them playing or coaching the game.

With all your superior knowledge, explain this to me, as I've never really understood. In third and short, or 4th and short, why oh why do teams pack the o-line in tight? Especially with a back like Chubb? Keep the o-line splits the same - maybe 3/4 to 1 yard between them. Snap the ball, have the o line block how they can. Let the back make the decision/cut - they can find daylight.

I've just never understood packing everyone tight.

this pretty much sums up why i haven't defended stefanski lately. because the play calling made absolutely no sense.