DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Trump Arrested

Former President Donald Trump was charged with 34 felony counts of falsifying business records in the first degree.

You mean that when you spew your clap trap and bully others I have responded and pointed out your BS ? Like saying you were misrepresented when the word "witch hunt" was used -- when you weren't?

Hey - at least I never brought your family into it and attacked them. Never spammed the boards calling you Evil for 2 days .... that'd be a you thing also.

Sorry, I don't feel that you two have honest conversations w/me. Both you and 888 have earned the distrust I have for you both. If this were everyday life and either of you were in my circle of friends or lived in my neighborhood, I would never be around either of you again. That's not the case here. I can't remove myself from seeing you. We obviously we dislike one another. So, my offer that's been on the table for years w/you both still stands. Let's ignore one another. I say what I want to say and you say what you want to say. No arguing. No interaction. If we never spoke another word it would still be a day too late. I do know that you two will once again not honor my request.

I do know this.........if someone asked me to leave them alone, I would honor their request. I'd never speak another word to them. To continue to hound a person after they ask you to leave them alone is bullying. It's permitted on this board and in our country. Cyberbullying is a huge issue for this country and it explains a lot of the problems are youth are dealing with. With that said.......my offer will continue to stand. Leave me alone and I will never question another post of either of yours or even utter your names on this board again. I'll even put it this way.............please, leave me alone.

You are requesting that "certain people" not do what such forums are actually intended for. And that's to be an open forum. Anyone is permitted to address and respond to any poster at any time. See, you like to use catch phrases like "hounded them" which is some sort of inference that they are doing something wrong or making you a target. You bring up the topic of cyber bullying is if you are some sort of victim. It's hilarious. That's far from the truth. When you post in an open forum, people respond. You do realize how this works, right?

What you are requesting is that you have some special privilege to post what you wish at any time on any topic without being addressed or questioned about it by people you don't wish to question you. Not only can you choose to remove yourself, you have in the past chose to remove yourself. That decision is entirely your own. What you can't choose to do is seriously expect that posters be silent when you post things they disagree with. No poster on this board has carte blanche to post or express their opinions, wishes or what they think is best without question.

I understand you refuse to engage anyone who questions you. The problem becomes when you try to claim it's their issue and not your own.

So no, you will not be granted special circumstances above and beyond the rules of this board. There is s community guideline in place and you will not get a special sticker making you exempt beyond those guidelines by me..

What trump is clearly guilty of is the misrepresentation of business documents.This is easily proven and is a misdemeanor.

That crime becomes a felony if committed in an attempt to commit or cover up another crime. This is going to be the hard part to prove.

My question is: If the felony charges are found not guilty, can he still be found guilty onm the misdemeanor charges?

The question being posed and discussed a lot is: Is this politically motivated? Meaning, if trump was not a former President or current Presidential candidate would this go to trial?


Seems to me that it should be easy for someone in the press or on either side of this case to look back at the past 5-10 years of similar cases and see how they were handled.

I haven't had time to really digest this but I thought the misdemeanor portion required they prove the act was do commit fraud first. Intent could be a difficult ask on this.

I'd think if they miss on the felony this would be done due to double jeopardy. If the charges are the same section of law and are escalated I'd have a hard time believing they could just go back to the lower charge after trial, it could be part of the verdict decision tree though.

Take it for what it is worth - I heard a former Watergate prosecutor (Jill Wine-Banks? She was female) stating in response to or while discussing some comments by Bill Barr this topic about whether this would go to trial if it wasn't Trump. She sited 20+ examples of prosecutions for the same offenses recently - as in the last 12 months.

Yea he’s innocent until proven guilty. Gut feeling here is, he’s guilty as sin of all charges. Chances is, he pays hefty fines on a few charges. This won’t be the only charges trump will face. I believe the obstruction charges will hurt him more, not to mention the Jan 6th inciting a riot with his insurrection mob

They do not need to prove intent on the misdemeanor charges. However, on many of thise secondary charges they do.
Not sure about all the secondary charges because I don't know all of them.

I believe the misdemeaner is 175.05


emphasis mine.

The conditions listed are all predicated on the intent of fraud. The felony version is 175.10 which indicates you must be guilty of 175.05 and do it to conceal another crime.

I think this would give us a better idea on the double jeprody question too, I would think the jury decision tree would start with 175.05 and if guilty of that then you get to 175.10. That is my reading of those sections of NY penal code.

You're right... the more I think about it I think that is exactly what the Judge is/will do... if Cohen keeps doing interviews and Trump keeps bashing everyone on the other side of this case, I think we'll see a gag order or partial gag order eventually...

Or is it an elected official just doing his job?

No, That's not it!!!

Tell Michael Cohen that.

Cohen is linked to Trump. That's a bad example.

Yet he is an experienced attorney and felt he had no choice to plead guilty to five charges. So he obviously understood that crimes had been committed. This isn't some exception as it pertains to people having been charged on felony counts for the same crime in New York.

Survey of Past New York Felony Prosecutions for Falsifying Business Records

https://www.justsecurity.org/85605/...cutions-for-falsifying-business-records/

Now I suppose anyone can form their own conclusion as to whether trump would have been charged if "he wasn't trump". But others most certainly have been that had no affiliation with trump. So it would appear at least that part of the debate has been manufactured.

The comment was because you used Cohen as an example that you seem to think matters in regards to the "getting Trump" narrative. I think he is a bad example from the point of view that is isn't about getting Trump when he is so intrinsically linked. Other, non related, examples would be stronger.

Which is why I provided them.

Firstly, the author did a horrible job on presentation of data. Please can we have data in a sortable way? (Not to you, to the author)

I count 31 cases going back to 2009. Counting while flicking so my count could be wrong. I wonder how many investigations this pool came from. I'm also not sure they show acquittals in the data, or if there were any.

So having answered the question on whether this is an offense that "normal" people get indicted for - which is YES. You now want to ask other questions about those indictments? Why? What does it matter? The accusation was the charges were brought because of who Trump is and that no-one else is indicted over such charges..... that's been proven unequivocally to be false. Are you trying to dig deeper to try and find another way to justify not charging Trump or make a claim this is only a political prosecution?

I have no idea as to the total number of cases. I have no idea how many or if any of the cases were acquitted.

Trump's attorney's have insisted that if it weren't trump such a case would never have been brought in New York. I feel this is evidence that simply isn't true. I'm not sure what the size the pool this information was based on has anything to do with the fact that prosecutors most certainly bring the same charges against others who have no affiliation with trump. The only thing special about this case is the name trump.

31 cases in 14 years is not a trend. This could simply be outliers. I am trying to understand what the scare data says, assuming it proves your stance (whatever that is) only proves your bias.

Are there analogous cases in the list to Trump's case? I didn't see anything right off, but I only had a quick browse through.

No bias - just a simple fact that Trump is not being prosecuted for something that others have not been. I don't know why there are few cases - maybe the threshold is high. maybe not many people commit this infringement. What I do know is that many have claimed this wouldn't be prosecuted if not for Trump being Trump.... that is not the case. I am sure there are subtleties beyond that - but I'm happy that the broad outpouring by the right wing MSM about this was misplaced ... because they were making those claims even before knowing the actual specifics.

Nobody said it was a trend. The claim has been all along that such charges would never have been brought against someone not named trump and or they were only brought because it was trump. That has been shown to be false. Changing the narrative at this point in time doesn't derail the truth that those narratives are false.

Is the level he is at similar to the other cases that were indicted? That really is the question. Does Trump being Trump lower bar for him? Since he hinted he was going to run some people we out to "get him". It has been obvious in every single thing he has done. I mean, he's never been convicted and he has been called "The Criminal in Chief". He certainly is polarizing, but that shouldn't factor into prosecution, though it likely will. DAs love to grand stand on cases like this. Seeing how many times this has been investigated and dropped would be interesting.

Never is a mighty strong word.

The FBI/DOJ was going to deport Cohen's wife if he did not plead guilty.

To hear him tell it, no choice, and not about innocent or guilty, it was about taking the plea to save his spouse.

Hardball... Chin Music as Mudcat Grant would call it.

So, to say that he has a grudge, would be an understatement.

So is “always”. Hence Never a trumper and always a trumper. I’ll NEVER understand why anyone can support that POS.

Remember when the republican mantra was ... "family values" ha ha

In a quick search I can find nothing that supports or suggests the claim you made about the government threatening to deport Cohen's wife. Not saying you are wrong but I would certainly like to see sources which back up such a claim.

I heard they threatened to arrest both him and her if he didn’t plead guilty. Not sure if she’s a naturalized citizen. If not she could have been deported if convicted.

Listened to an interview with Michael Cohen on Smerconish, POTUS Sirius Xm.

I'm quite surprised the DA states "no one is above the law"- yet, Trump isn't handcuffed, he's fingerprinted- but NO mug shot......why the special treatment- he isn't the President NOW- he just a rich guy- wonder if his buddies- accomplished guys like Cohen, Flynn, Stone- did they get "special treatment" too- cuz they are entitled too aren't they? Plus, the Donald cons his idiots to send him more money- damn, what a player. Lock him up, please.

USSS said they would not allow him to be handcuffed as I understand it.

OK, why not a mug shot, and why does the Secret Service have the authority to prevent LOCAL police from following "NORMAL procedures"- hell, I saw they'd take every bench/ trashcan off the floor- protect him, but come on....are the handcuffs dipped in poison....use Secret Service handcuffs- he's just a rich white guy.

I don't know why. I will posit that handcuffs are to restrain someone so they are less dangerous or remove the risk of flight. Since he is not without USSS for the term of protection I'd say the handcuffs were not warranted, other than to assuage the people who want to see him cuffed out of spite.

I'm not sure what you heard. However I do know that Michael Cohen's wife and her family are naturalized citizens. So I have no idea how they could be deported. Maybe her father pled guilty in 1993 to conspiring to defraud the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) in a tax fraud and money laundering scheme but I'm not sure about that.

Who Is Michael Cohen's Wife? New Details About Laura Shusterman

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/michael-cohen-apos-wife-detalis-192213526.html

Definitely a shady side of the family here. As if the Cohen/trump MAGA ship wasn’t. It could have ripped their immediate family apart.

Anybody else notice that death and destruction hasn’t been brought upon the country? Sounds like the trump brigade may have retreated to their basements for now.