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Legend
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I really really really really really really really hope this is just posturing to drive someone's price down. Really.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Legend
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That's why I try to understand what I see and is obvious. They have confirmed the injury is worse than they thought it was. I saw his performance on the field. I saw him leave the field unable to continue the first time he hit the turf. And the actual reasons you gave seem somewhat confusing to me which is why I don't use what they are saying or doing as any actual evidence when my eyes and the news of his more serious injury are known to me. NFL teams go out of their way to keep the media in the dark. And in doing so, they keep us in the dark also. I understand why they do it. But in that game of deception it's also us that gets deceived.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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DW is now out.
PJ. Walker will start Sunday.
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Legend
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Legend
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I saw that. At least they didn't play the follow the bouncing ball game all week.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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This has been a clown show since Baltimore.. how can anyone believe KS and the FO know anything at this point. its a very bad look. If they intend to stand by with the current QB group then they 100% are punting on this season and are betting next year with chubb back and watson healthy they will make the run. Nothing else makes sense.
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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Legend
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I think we were pretty stunned with how bad DW looked and it was apparent he's not even close
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Hall of Famer
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Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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Legend
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There have been rumors about a CFL QB Zach Collaros, he is 35, has won 2 grey cups as a starter, and 1 as a back-up. He currently plays for the Winnipeg Blue Bombers and is having a really good season. He is from Steubenville, Ohio. CFL players can opt out of their CFL contracts for a NFL deal. Don’t get me wrong I’m not advocating for him, but it would so Browns to sign a CFL player. He had a cup of coffee with TB last year. This is his wiki page: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zach_Collaros
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Legend
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Last week they said "no restrictions."
So, I really do not know what the deal is.
I do know that I am not warm and fuzzy about playing the Seahawks in Seattle.
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Legend
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Legend
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There have been rumors about a CFL QB Zach Collaros, he is 35, has won 2 grey cups as a starter, and 1 as a back-up. He currently plays for the Winnipeg Blue Bombers and is having a really good season. He is from Steubenville, Ohio. CFL players can opt out of their CFL contracts for a NFL deal. Don’t get me wrong I’m not advocating for him, but it would so Browns to sign a CFL player. He had a cup of coffee with TB last year. This is his wiki page: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zach_Collarossounds like he'll fit in like a glove
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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2nd String
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DW is now out.
PJ. Walker will start Sunday. ![[Linked Image from img.broadwaybox.com]](https://img.broadwaybox.com/photo/image/Tammy_Faye_Crying.gif)
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Legend
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I am starting to think out of the box regarding backup qbs.
Until recently in baseball what has been known as "a bullpen game" did not exist.
Now the term is accepted. And those games can be won.
Taysom Hill is a different kind of quarterback. He is like a TE who can throw passes but is like a fullback running.
I think there is a place in the NFL for guys like that as backup qbs. Defenses will have a hard time preparing for a pistol offense. Wildcat offenses have been in the NFL. They are not long term solutions but can be effective short term.
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All Pro
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All Pro
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Only this week have I heard that DW's injury was with the subscapularis muscle, the largest muscle in the rotator cuff. Due to the location of the muscle and the difficulty in isolating its movement from other muscles, it makes sense why the messaging was initially so poor.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/captainphil/browns bills sig 5.jpg) When it gets cold and snows and the wind blows, you gotta be able to run the ball. - TR
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Legend
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It does.
But I don't know why the messaging and the way it was handled has to be that way.
The Browns are not alone with how injuries are handled in the media. I get that leaving doubt leaves the other team in the dark as well.
However, in the end I really don't think secrecy actually makes a difference.
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j/c
No trade for Brissett (or any other QB for that matter)!!! I know a lot less than our FO (obviously), but I don't understand this lack of action. I would rather see DTR on the field gaining experience as we must certainly know that Walker is not the answer.. We've pushed our good fortune to the limit the last 2 weeks, anything more is simply too much to expect....
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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So are you saying you didn't witness those five passes? He wasn't "taken out" of the game. He was injured to the point he could not continue and had to leave the game. Maybe there was a later point where he could have gone back into the game. But at the point he left the game he couldn't even raise his arm much less play QB. Were we watching the same game?
They have since confirmed the injury is worse than they first knew as well. I am not trying to argue. The messaging has been confusing.
After being limited last Wednesday. He was listed as FP Thursday and Friday.
Now they are saying strain of his subscapularis – a muscle within the rotator cuff of his throwing shoulder.
I don't know what his condition is.
Sometime today we will find out if he practices or not.
I am left to go by what the team does. I am not going to speculate about his condition or if he will play.
NFL teams go out of their way to keep the media in the dark. Are we ready to accept the fact that not only was Watson's injury more serious than reported and hampers his ability to play or still buying into the Stefanski "day to day" statement? The dude should have been on IR from the beginning, a wasted 4-weeks of healing. Now we watched Watson take a single hit in a game that not only shelfed him but clearly showed he couldn't even lift his arm on the sidelines. Three days later and the Browns are benching Watson again because of the injury yet still gambling with his and the team's future by not sticking the dude on IR so he can heal. Good god man, two out of three years the Browns and Stefanski are playing Russian Roulette with an injured QB, and you don't see a trend? We're past yoiur speculation phase - the dude has a serious injury whether you, Stefanski, or the Browns want to admit it.
Just "KICKING THAT CAN DOWN the ROAD"
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Legend
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I'm still holding out hope that they are working on something right now and they want to give Walker a full week of reps and see if there is any improvement, if its a dumpster fire then they still have a few days before the deadline after Seattle. I mean for a team that leans this hard into analytics, i'd love to see their take on the stats that are associated with our Qb's and offense as a whole and justify not doing anything. I think certain positions its worse to do nothing than knee jerk overreact, QB is one of those. I know DTR had a bad outing but he was better player than walker in college and his coaching failed him by putting him out there against baltimore with no reps . Walker on the other hand threw for 56% completion...in college.. thats pathetic. I think DTR has more upside and if we aren't going to sign a QB I rather have DTR to see what we have.
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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When you come with real information I will pay attention.
All you ever want to do is point a finger at KS even though you don't know what the hell is going on.
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Legend
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When you come with real information I will pay attention.
All you ever want to do is point a finger at KS even though you don't know what the hell is going on. I'm thinking you don't really grasp what's going on. Easy to point a finger at KS because its him thats sending out all the bad information.. he absolutely should be held accountable for that, Berry as well. Noone is talking about Watson's injury in the media, all their are talking about is how bad our coaching staff and FO handled the communication. Sorry, people question KS/Berry on that are 100% correct.
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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When you come with real information I will pay attention.
All you ever want to do is point a finger at KS even though you don't know what the hell is going on. I'm thinking you don't really grasp what's going on. Easy to point a finger at KS because its him thats sending out all the bad information.. he absolutely should be held accountable for that, Berry as well. Noone is talking about Watson's injury in the media, all their are talking about is how bad our coaching staff and FO handled the communication. Sorry, people question KS/Berry on that are 100% correct. Stefanski hasn't been held accountable for the last 2-years so not holding him accountable for this mess in year 3 is just business as usual. He screwed the pooch when he kept playing an obviously injured Mayfield and is doing everything in his power to do it again. Even the most novice fan could see Watson shouldn't have been on the field last Sunday and yet all we hear from Stefanski about the injury is he's day-to-day until finally ruling him out today. I wonder if he can lift his arm yet, huh - day-to-day.
Just "KICKING THAT CAN DOWN the ROAD"
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Legend
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Do you have experience with sports injuries?
Do you think when the medical staff is providing their information it is all black and white?
You have made it clear that according to you KS is at fault for everything that happens.
DW is dealing with swelling. There is no exact time frame.
The record is 4-2. Deal with it.
Hard to swallow right. If we were 2-4 you could have written your epitaph, and got your pitchfork and noose out. You would not have been able to hit send fast enough.
Who knows maybe we will lose the rest of the games.
Last edited by bonefish; 10/25/23 05:30 PM.
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4-2 is a tremendous thing - why you assume I want the Browns to lose is baffling. That record though doesn't excuse Stefanski and Berry for not having a decent backup or the ridiculous poor communication on Watson's status. Just a comment about the defense, last season many on this forum constantly stated that Stefanski was not responsible for the poor defense and that it was all Wood's fault. If that was the case, giving the HC another pass, then he should deserve zero credit for the improved defense this year. However, he does have sole responsibility for the offense, and it has been suspect at best. You continue to want to give Stefanski a pass. I don't and after the last 2 years and the way he's handled the QB situation this year and in the past, he deserves the scrutiny whether you agree or not!
Just "KICKING THAT CAN DOWN the ROAD"
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Legend
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There has been miscommunication. I get why but I don't like it either.
The defense comment goes both ways. You were all over KS about the defense falls under his watch last year.
Ok then so does Schwartz this year. It is either Woods fault and KS handles only the offense. Or, it all is on KS and the defensive performance this year is partly because of KS. You want to blame him no matter what.
In regards to the backup. PJ is 2-0. It may not have been pretty but that is his record.
We don't know what PJ will do. In fact he doesn't know because he has never been in this particular situation before.
This guy got here for a reason. You don't know and neither do I how he will perform. We didn't evaluate him and sign him.
I will support PJ and root like hell for him.
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Legend
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I'm still holding out hope that they are working on something right now and they want to give Walker a full week of reps and see if there is any improvement, if its a dumpster fire then they still have a few days before the deadline after Seattle. My concern there that it is a dumpster fire -- or worse -- imagine an injury. Seattle game could definitely put a damper on negotiation tactics and price.
HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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Nobody said that Baker the player was relevant. The handling of the QB injuries by Stefanski and the Browns is relevant and Watson's mirrors the mishandling of Mayfield's injury. As of today, Watson is no more ready to play than he was on September 25th. That's 4-weeks ago now and he should have been put on IR in retrospect. That said though, the commonalities between the way the injuries have been handled is eerily similar. Those professionals at the highest level in sports medicine did and continue to clear the players for play. Both players had and have had their injuries downplayed as to the seriousness and the effect it had/has on their ability to play at an appropriate level. Live practice throws are not live game throws, using that as the baseline and then ignoring the actual play results is an injustice to the fans and the player. Neither player should have been on the field even though they both said they were ready and medically cleared but clearly not close to being able to perform to the level of play needed. Clearly you don't see the similarities but IMHO, Mayfield 2.0 is in full swing in Berea. The names may have changed but the Browns and Stefanski's actions are so similar it's scary. You should listen to Bernie Kosar's "analysis" of his similar compared to how DW's is. I watched him on The Ultimate Cleveland Sports Show explain how DW's shoulder injury could have been misdiagnosed and his availability from day to day been difficult to determine. He also described some details of that injury would explain Dw's first dump off pass to Ford being so off target. It made a lot of sense. Watson's first 5 passes convinced me he wasn't ready, but Bernie explained why the game time decision is not black and white. But maybe Bernie is just a shill for the Browns coaches and FO. I watched that. Bernie's analysis made a lot of sense. I walked away thinking we better find a capable backup... pronto. It made me understand how difficult it is with that particular injury to determine if he should splay or not. Additional QB help sounds warranted.
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Legend
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WE DON’T NEED NO STINKING QBs! We already have 3 of those on the roster.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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My signature holds true every.single.year.
If it's not Chaos, it's not Cleveland.
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Legend
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Legend
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You know, it's a funny thing. When the team is losing the Stefanski haters claim "You are what your record says you are". Until suddenly the Browns are 4-2. Then it changes to, "The record has nothing to do with it". Really strange how that works. Or doesn't work as the case may be.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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4-2 is a tremendous thing - why you assume I want the Browns to lose is baffling. ![[Linked Image from media.giphy.com]](https://media.giphy.com/media/EouEzI5bBR8uk/giphy.gif)
Tackles are tackles.
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Legend
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Here is something to ponder.
Dobbs was the backup. IMO he was signed because they knew him. Also because in some ways his style of play is somewhat like DW. Dobbs is a mobile quarterback.
DTR was drafted. He also resembles the same style of play. Mobile type of qb.
DTR outplays Dobbs in preseason. It was decided that DTR was good enough to be the backup; making Dobbs expendable.
DTR becomes the backup. Then the whole injury ordeal with DW begins. Day to day, he should play, medically cleared etc.
Last minute on a Wedesday; DTR get ready. You are going to start against the Ravens. A team that knows us well.
The moment looks to big for DTR. He plays poorly. IMO it is completely understandable. It is DTR's first NFL start.
The next week DTR is down the depth chart and on the bench. IMO he had little chance against the Ravens. You don't pull the plug on him based upon that start.
Ok it is decided DTR is not ready. PJ who has more overall experience gets promoted. DW is still day to day. Condition unknown.
PJ gets the start his first pass to Cooper is on Wednesday of game week. We beat the Niners. DW returns to start. Takes a shot and is removed from play. PJ gets the win.
Now DW goes back to rehab. Status is week to week.
Is PJ really better than DTR? DTR has been with the team since the draft. PJ is recently off the practice squad.
I am assuming PJ looks to be the better option between the two. That is ok. However how did DTR drop so fast? He played really well in the preseason. I know it is preseason. But it was enough to send Dobbs packing.
Now everyone wants another backup. I am not sure we know what either PJ or DTR can do. I like Jacoby. He is a good dude.
However, is he really better than what we have?
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Legend
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Legend
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I felt DTR would have fared better had we gameplanned for his strengths of running and rolling out ... and tailored the plays to be shorter drops, screens, etc
That's not saying he's better than Walker, but he had no chance that first game
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Legend
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Legend
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DTR played against the scrubs. Come on man. He was a very capable backup and an upgrade over anything else the Browns had. They traded him away for a ham sandwich and a six pack. It's okay to admit this FO blew that call. it happens sometimes. Just like it's fine to give them credit for signing Hopkins. In that case they did an excellent job.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Rookie qbs rarely win their first start.
I doubt there was really much that could have been done that would have changed the outcome.
The Ravens play great defense. You are not going to be ready for that in your first NFL start.
PJ has seen more than DTR. However, he hasn't seen much either.
We do not know what either player will do. PJ is older and does have more experience.
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DTR is better than PJ long term. He may or may not be better than PJ this Sunday. I honestly think keeping DTR on the bench is all about protecting the future. He was never supposed to play this soon. Give the kid time to grow and learn in the NFL. It also, at least in my brain, speaks volumes about what the org is beginning to think (or not think) about the long term future of Watson when we're seemingly protecting DTR for the future. Watson, on the other hand, if he can lift his arm - roll him out there. Might as well get something for that $230M.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/GraffZ06/browns_factory_sig.jpg) Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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Legend
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It's okay to admit this FO blew that call.
The question becomes, are those in charge of running the Browns franchise willing to risk a good shot at the Playoffs by doing nothing to fix the misjudgment they made about manning the Browns BackUP QB position...using a 5th round rookie DTR, who looked terrible against starting caliber talent (Ravens)?
If the Browns were going to make a run at Brissett, this week would have been the best time to complete a deal, (imo)...Washington's remaining schedule is tough and who knows when they might need Brissett to take over as their fill-in?
As of now, our front office is just fine DOING NOTHING..!
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Not sure what direction Berry will take with possible trades.
I imagine a lot depends on his opinion of PJ Walker and the condition of DW. When is it safe to say DW is healthy?
Looking at other positions besides quarterback. If there is an available running back who is an upgrade?
Right now I don't know where we are with receivers. We have not been good enough at quarterback to tell. If we were selling and trying to get draft picks. It would be different.
Right now I have no idea what if anything that we end up doing.
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One QB who possibly could be available is Ryan Tannehill. The Titans might be ready to hand over the season to their second rounder Will Levis and start preparing for next year. Tannehill is recovering from an ankle sprain (should be back next week) and is in the last year of his contract. Not that I am big on him, but a possible scenario could be to package him with Henry. Both are past their primes and shouldn't cost as much in capital.
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Only this week have I heard that DW's injury was with the subscapularis muscle, the largest muscle in the rotator cuff. Due to the location of the muscle and the difficulty in isolating its movement from other muscles, it makes sense why the messaging was initially so poor. Listening to Bernie Kosar in an interview the stories seem to make sense.
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 70,639 Likes: 510 |
listening to Aditi it sounds like we won't make a move for a QB at all
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979 Likes: 83
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979 Likes: 83 |
3 games in October the Browns will largely rely on a @uarterback who was not on the team September first.
Only the best organizations...
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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