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At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Didn't see that coming, but it's pretty cool! Welcome home, DQ!


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Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie

Wow! love it, DQ was one of my favorite players for years

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Hopefully, DQ is not evaluating LBs!! LOL!

Good for DQ. I like listening to DQ when interviewed on UCSS.

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The Cleveland Browns traded up for linebacker Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah to select him in the second round of the 2021 NFL Draft. And thus far, he has lived up to the billing of where he was selected. Now with Jim Schwartz taking over as defensive coordinator, there is reason to believe he has room for continued improvement. One former Browns’ linebacker, D’Qwell Jackson, thinks he should only be playing on passing downs though.

Appearing on the Ultimate Cleveland Sports Show, Jackson had this to say about Owusu-Koramoah:

“He’s not a linebacker. He does not have the fundamentals to play linebacker… He’s got the skillset, he’s got the athletic ability, but he doesn’t have the discipline to play linebacker right now… he doesn’t play well with his hands, he gets lost in space, he plays too hesitant.”

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Ruh, roh. I don't like the sound of that.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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I remember when he was on the Ultimate Cleveland Show and said that.

Sometimes ex-players look at their position and the way they played or were taught as the standard.

They are not open to players who play the position differently.

I am sure since he made that statement and the success JOK has had. DQ will reevaluate.

He is a sharp guy and could be useful.

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One has to hope that he doesn't make that same mistake in his scouting. It would be a shame for him to make such a miscalculation in his scouting only to look back a couple of years later and him reevaluate his mistake after missing on a special talent who is now on someone elses roster.

I'm sure that neither of us could imagine passing on JOK in round 2.


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Originally Posted by bugs
… he doesn’t play well with his hands, he gets lost in space, he plays too hesitant.”

Holy smokes....that describes DQ himself! I think he led the team in tackles for gain, lol. JOK is anything but hesitant to my untrained eye.


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I actually watched the full clip. DQ said "right now" numerous times.

And JOK definitely proved him wrong. I'm sure there was a little humble pie and a bunch of "great job" once he walked in the building.


That, however, does not alleviate your valid concern from a scouting standpoint.


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[/quote] I think he led the team in tackles for gain, lol. [/quote]


This might be one of the funniest stats I have ever heard of.

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I'm not actually sure whether I should be concerned or not from a big picture standpoint. When looking at his experience in the realm of scouting I can't say that anything stands out that would make him unqualified for the position. I'm sure that scouts miss on individual players all the time. None of them bat 1000.


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True. And at least speaking for myself, I have no idea what scouts do from day to day. I'm sure it's not just going out trying to find the next lottery ticket. The Browns obviously took his comments as a nothing burger. Who knows, maybe DQ's comments actually played a role in JOK's turnaround? Maybe the coaches right up through Schwartz were saying the same thing last January?


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I have no factual answer for that. What I can say with certainty is that Schwartz changed the way JOK was being used which permitted him to use his strengths to the teams advantage and as such his production and impact was greatly increased. I think it was simple matter of JOK being used improperly which gave the appearance that his talents weren't nearly as good as they are. At least that's the way it appears from my perspective. Having good talent is a wonderful things but only if you use that talent to the best of their ability. Which could very well be the reason DQ didn't see what JOK was capable of at the time.


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At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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It can be damned tough being a Cleveland sports fan. Brutal really. As we sit here still waiting for a trophy in the two big sports, there's a little solace in watching two or three players that may actually end up with statues. Topping that list is Nick Chubb, Myles and that freak with the Guardians uni, José Ramírez.

Never have to be anything but proud to put their jerseys on my back.


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Originally Posted by jfanent
Originally Posted by bugs
… he doesn’t play well with his hands, he gets lost in space, he plays too hesitant.”

Holy smokes....that describes DQ himself! I think he led the team in tackles for gain, lol. JOK is anything but hesitant to my untrained eye.

I laughed at the “tackles for gained” part!


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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
I have no factual answer for that. What I can say with certainty is that Schwartz changed the way JOK was being used which permitted him to use his strengths to the teams advantage and as such his production and impact was greatly increased. I think it was simple matter of JOK being used improperly which gave the appearance that his talents weren't nearly as good as they are. At least that's the way it appears from my perspective. Having good talent is a wonderful things but only if you use that talent to the best of their ability. Which could very well be the reason DQ didn't see what JOK was capable of at the time.

Great post. I think one thing missed with many coaches is seeing a player as he is, especially as a specific position dictates, and not being either intelligent enough or flexible enough to see his skill set could be used differently.

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A very good point, and it reminded me of this meme

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If you're being used wrong, things will rarely look right. You might be a mediocre hammer, but if someone thought to use you as the ratchet you are, you just might excel.


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Originally Posted by bugs
Hopefully, DQ is not evaluating LBs!! LOL!

Good for DQ. I like listening to DQ when interviewed on UCSS.

Quote
The Cleveland Browns traded up for linebacker Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah to select him in the second round of the 2021 NFL Draft. And thus far, he has lived up to the billing of where he was selected. Now with Jim Schwartz taking over as defensive coordinator, there is reason to believe he has room for continued improvement. One former Browns’ linebacker, D’Qwell Jackson, thinks he should only be playing on passing downs though.

Appearing on the Ultimate Cleveland Sports Show, Jackson had this to say about Owusu-Koramoah:

“He’s not a linebacker. He does not have the fundamentals to play linebacker… He’s got the skillset, he’s got the athletic ability, but he doesn’t have the discipline to play linebacker right now… he doesn’t play well with his hands, he gets lost in space, he plays too hesitant.”


It's a feel good story, and one comment shouldn't be his defining moment. Being a former player doesn't make one a good scout. Scouts have to have a feel for projecting players for what they can be in a few years. With JOK, he clearly didn't do much projecting.


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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
Originally Posted by bugs
Hopefully, DQ is not evaluating LBs!! LOL!

Good for DQ. I like listening to DQ when interviewed on UCSS.

Quote
The Cleveland Browns traded up for linebacker Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah to select him in the second round of the 2021 NFL Draft. And thus far, he has lived up to the billing of where he was selected. Now with Jim Schwartz taking over as defensive coordinator, there is reason to believe he has room for continued improvement. One former Browns’ linebacker, D’Qwell Jackson, thinks he should only be playing on passing downs though.

Appearing on the Ultimate Cleveland Sports Show, Jackson had this to say about Owusu-Koramoah:

“He’s not a linebacker. He does not have the fundamentals to play linebacker… He’s got the skillset, he’s got the athletic ability, but he doesn’t have the discipline to play linebacker right now… he doesn’t play well with his hands, he gets lost in space, he plays too hesitant.”


It's a feel good story, and one comment shouldn't be his defining moment. Being a former player doesn't make one a good scout. Scouts have to have a feel for projecting players for what they can be in a few years. With JOK, he clearly didn't do much projecting.

DQ wasn't trying to do projecting. He was saying what he saw on tape. He never said they weren't correctable issues.

There was a reason JOK "fell" out of the 1st round. It would seem to make sense to me that other scouts having similar feelings could have led to that.

JOK had the ability to do it, he just wasn't yet comfortable consistently doing it at ND. Tarver and Schwartz have gotten him to know what to do and trust what he sees pretty well now.

JOK was listed as a FS/WR in high school on MaxPreps. (link) He was still learning to be a LB at ND. He showed flashes and the required talent, but actually ingraining all the "fundamentals" was a work in progress.

JOK appears to have lived up to the potential. On past Browns teams, that would have been an outlier.

It's nice to have a staff that can actually develop players. DQ probably wasn't very familiar with that with regards to the Browns.


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I agree with almost all of that. However, projecting does seem to be inferred if you keep repeating "he's not a linebacker". Nitpicking really, but that was the only thing I kept cringing at during the interview.


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He was not a traditional LB at Michigan either. I saw a number of times where he lined up against larger WR’s.

His job is to disrupt TE’s and RB’s. He is a good player for that role.

He plays in space and has speed to get to the QB.


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Cleveland Browns Sign Mike Hall Jr. Completing Rookie Class.

The Cleveland Browns finish signing their 2024 draft class, reaching a deal with their top pick, Mike Hall Jr., a defensive tackle from Ohio State.

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JOK at Notre Dame, won the Butkus Award (over Micah Parsons) and was named the ACC Defensive Player of the Year and a unanimous All-American as a senior in 2020.

When I watched his tape at ND it looked like what we see now.

I don't think Joe Woods knew how to use him.

Woods played a lot of zone. He never put JOK in position to read and react.

His strength is spy the backfield, read and react. He can play man and cover a TE, or RB. On zone read he can drop and cover.

Schwartz uses JOK in run blitz and to attack the quarterback. I love his game. I love watching him beat blockers to a spot and make the play.

IMO he is one of the very best overall three down linebackers in the league.

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Yeah bone, good summary. I’m not a scout like DQ is haha but JOK has good speed and instinct. And he is a good tackler. Love him on our team.


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Originally Posted by bonefish
JOK at Notre Dame, won the Butkus Award (over Micah Parsons) and was named the ACC Defensive Player of the Year and a unanimous All-American as a senior in 2020.

When I watched his tape at ND it looked like what we see now.

I don't think Joe Woods knew how to use him.

Woods played a lot of zone. He never put JOK in position to read and react.

His strength is spy the backfield, read and react. He can play man and cover a TE, or RB. On zone read he can drop and cover.

Schwartz uses JOK in run blitz and to attack the quarterback. I love his game. I love watching him beat blockers to a spot and make the play.

IMO he is one of the very best overall three down linebackers in the league.

I'd argue his strength was more attacking than reading and reacting. He played more like an oft blitzing DB than a "traditional LB."

He's a good football player. Old school, stack and shed, between the tackles "LB" not so much at ND. Yes, he's a LB on paper, but the modern LB in JOKs-mold is basically a different position than the type of LB that DQ played. When you had a book of "LB" drills, they didn't really look like what JOK does best.

I think its a case of very different things having the same name. DQ was referring to one version. Others are thinking more in terms of the label itself, perhaps.

He's more of a Swiss army knife than a "pure" LB.

Woods seemed to try to make him play like a more traditional LB. Schwartz has him using his unique skill set more. And JOK has developed other areas of his game.


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JOK is a different breed. It was clear at ND.

The first thing I saw when watching his tape was he was not a stack and shed type LB.

He reads the block and beats the blocker to the spot. If the play is any type of horizontal sweep he moves with the flow and then knifes through to make the play.

In run blitz he reads the designed hole. He is looking for a crease to get the runner before he hits the LOS.

His game is way different than pass rushing LB's like Watt and Parsons.

I don't know another guy like him in today's game. There may be another but I have not seen him.

This will be his second year with Schwartz. I can't wait to watch him. We have a better rotation at tackle. I think Schwartz will add wrinkles to the defense.

I am expecting the defense to be one of the best. We are one of few teams who can really man-up at three corners both boundaries and slot.

We do not play traditional FS and SS. We move them in and out of coverage and LOS support.

Jordan Hicks and Rodney McLeod both played for Schwartz. Now you add JOK, Delpit, Thornhill. That group of linebackers and safeties should work well together.

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At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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DW looks crisp.

I see no hitch or drag. His throws show good arm strength.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/20...on-the-final-day-of-browns-minicamp.html

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Hopefully all of those things will translate well come game days.


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Coach KS mentioned Tillman this week as a guy who looks sharper in year 2. Good sign.
I want Ced to make me love him. Also, Cooper wants an extension.
Thoughts?


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It is good the hear the coach praise on Ced.

He came here with lofty praise from others like Randy Moss and Steve Smith.

He has the skill set. Last year the issues centered around him not picking up where he should go at times. If you get a pre snap read and that changes there are alternate routes.

He could be a big add if he can reach his potential.

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Originally Posted by lampdogg
Coach KS mentioned Tillman this week as a guy who looks sharper in year 2. Good sign.
I want Ced to make me love him. Also, Cooper wants an extension.
Thoughts?

Last year Ced played with hesitation and didn't get used all that much until the last 1/3 of the season. I suppose much of the usage issue stems from reports he didn't know where he needed to be. At Tennessee the Heupel passing system isn't a timing, be at a spot type attack, so Tillman had a pretty big learning curve.

It now sounds like he is up to speed on what this O demands. This is also his 2nd year which is a big year or any player. It's the year where you can see what they are going to be, or what they are.

Tall, decent speed, thick build...he can be a pretty good receiver if he gets the mental part of the game.


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If Tillman can get his brain on the same level as his skill set I think Browns fans will be very happy he's here. They need to give Amari a deal. I'm just not sure if this FO wants to commit to him as long as he is wanting to be committed to. I'm not so sure I would either if I were this FO.


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With Tillmans's height and build, he should be an asset on third-and-short and in the red zone.

Last season I thought Cooper, Njoku, and Tillman would make a great red-zone squad.

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'Hard Knocks: In Season' to feature AFC North teams

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For the first time ever, HBO and NFL Films will follow all four teams in the AFC North for their annual Hard Knocks: In Season, aiming to chronicle the inner workings of the rough-and-tumble quartet of squads. The new episodes will feature the Baltimore Ravens, Cincinnati Bengals, Cleveland Browns and Pittsburgh Steelers, members of the first division to finish with nothing but winning records, achieved in 2023.

Click on the link to read the entire article.

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:facepalm:


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