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J/C
Kudos to Phil Dawson. He gets to skip sessions which will not help him become a better NFL player, and he gets a lengthy discussion about him going on this board because there is little to nothing else to discuss right now.
For a kicker to get this long of a discussion must be considered a success. Great job Phil.
#gmstrong
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Ah, so it's not about money ... it's about ink on DawgTalk. I missed that one completely.
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Take away the human side of this and Phil can be replaced, replaced by someone alot younger and cheaper, and since were not suppose to make a playoff push anyway, this might be the year to get a young strong legged kicker some experiance, see what he's capable of and if he's got it or do we keep looking, buisness is buisness.
Dont get me wrong, I think Phil deserves a raise, he's important to this team, but also he did sign a deal, he also needs to hold up to his end. I bet he's cashed every paycheck he's been given bye the Browns so far off this current deal. Just becuase your feeling change dosent mean you take your toys & go home.
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The longevity factor IS a good thing, agreed.
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Quote:
If, in those final six games we had had a chance of making a playoff run, then you're right on,...
To say we didn't have 6 straight shutouts is because of Phil Dawson,...well, go ahead and divvy out the potatoes any way you like,...they're still mashed.
I don't even know what that means.  Speak english man. And it was a bit of a joke, considering we did get shutout like 3 of those 6 and McDonald scored a Int TD in another I think.
But I was basically saying, Dawson was our best shot at scoring during those last 6 games, which is very sad.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Quote:
Ah, so it's not about money ... it's about ink on DawgTalk. I missed that one completely.
better than ink....millions and millions of little electrons floating around the world all for Dawson. and many of them will be preserved somewhere for eternity.
must be a big ego boost 
#gmstrong
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Outside of the annual Dawson suck posters reiterating their case - we know who they are...lol 
I really don't understand a lot being said here.
1. His leg is still live - actually I've seen his conditioning routine actually provide him with a stronger leg.
2. Although his career is void of big kick opportunities to set him in a class with other kickers. He's made some very big kicks. Bills, snow game when the opposing kicker couldn't even think of a FG he blows one in from around 50. Ravens in 07 the infamous reversal kick hit so right down the middle it hit the cross bar and bounce back. And then winning it later with the OT kick.
He's been clutch...the only bad kicks I've seen him make were when we were in a losing funk and the season was over and his kid was in the hospital in serious condition - OK, he lost his concentration and missed about 5-6 FGs in that span.
3. I can't believe you all complaining simple don't watch enough Playoff football where there always seem to be a team that is good but doesn't quite make in due to their inept FG kicker. Teams die for a Good one. Now possibly the last 4 years or so I think better ones are coming out of college. At least something good is coming with this stupid political correct BS pushing SOCCER on our kids 
Now that we are on the EVE of being a competitive team we are talking about getting rid of Dawson a proven commodity one who is use to our Stadium tendencies and a big time HOME FIELD Advantage!
Yes, if he is asking for stupid money, what can you do.
Oh and the premise of stating that CBS is not a bad kicking stadium  You can give me all the articles you wish - stats etc. I don't care I've watched the games and there is a Handful of Stadiums that can even be compared to CBS in terrible conditions to kick.
Talk about Stover???? If we are planning on UNDER 40 yard FGs he might be good but his leg has gone. There is a reason he's a FA.
But its rather simple...he is signed. I'm sure we will compensate him when the time is right. This season is not one of them. Its not like he's a RB with a high risk injury around the corner...HE's a kicker for crying out load. His risk of injury is minimal. His game will still be here next off season and we will either extend his contract or let it play out.
If we got a potential SuperStar in the wings...Kokinis wouldn't surprise me. Great thats a different scenario. At least whoever they are in the wings will probably get some good looks at the position. If that becomes the case...then and only then do we think of TRADING Dawson to a contender in the NFC who has been disappointed by their kicker in the past.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Some people have been bashing him since 1999, while I have been shoving my ample sized backside into the mix defending him
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Quote:
J/C
Kudos to Phil Dawson. He gets to skip sessions which will not help him become a better NFL player, and he gets a lengthy discussion about him going on this board because there is little to nothing else to discuss right now.
For a kicker to get this long of a discussion must be considered a success. Great job Phil.
Some people think the tailgate thread is bad.......heck, I'd rather discuss politcs there than come here and discuss football - doesn't matter what stance you take here or there, people bash the hell out of you for having an opinion.
I don't spend a whole lot of time following the off season football threads. And I don't spend a whole lot of time during the season. Knowing stats and all that? For me it's a waste of time - I can see what people do on the field.
Football stupid? Not me. Smart enough to avoid all this? Yup.
With that said, phil deserves a raise. Be it here, or somewhere else. Of course, the other side of that is he's getting just about $1 million a year for kicking a football.
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Kickers don't need to hold out. Frankly, I think we can lose 12 games with or without him.  As is true with all positions, eventually a young gun will come along and take Phil's place. If it's this year, so be it. Because I don't think this FO bunch is gonna give any vet a raise before they see what this year brings.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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"With that said, phil deserves a raise. Be it here, or somewhere else. Of course, the other side of that is he's getting just about $1 million a year for kicking a football."
"Smart enough to avoid all this? Yup."
But then in the end even you in your stance contributed...but thanks for avoiding it 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Legend
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Quote:
Not quite accurate...........you SHOULD have said...........
LOSERS CAN'T UNDERSTAND STATS!!!!!!!!!!! (suffice it to say they aren't actually losers, just that aren't accurately interpreting or representing the stats.
% each of the last five years assuming a qualifying number of attempts (which is to say more than one ) :
Actually its dead nuts accurate ... and if u really want to get your ass handed to U on this one ... continue debating ... i will give u just the beggining of your phallacy here ... and if u chose to continue .. we can break THIS STAT DOWN and prove that trying to rate kickers on THIS STAT ALONE IS PURELY A JOKE ... (using one stat to rate any position is PURELY A JOKE .. ) ...
anyhow .. for starters ... lets review ...
from Gift's stats ...
In 2008 PD finished 24th in percentage.
2007 he was tied for 12th/13th.
2006 he was 22nd.
2005 tied for 6th/7th/8th.
2004 tied for 8th -13th.
2003 he was 23rd.
from your own mouth (keypad) ....
Quote:
'08: 22nd
'07: 12th
'06: 26th
'05: 2nd
'04: 13th
so if u put them side by side .....
08 - 24 .... 22 ... (that difference is cause U eliminated two based on # of kicks that he didn't) ...
07 - tied 12 - 13 ...... 12
06 - 22 ......... 26
05 - tied 6,7,8 ......... 2
04 - tied 8 - 13 ...... 13 .....
so U guys are trying to compare apples to apples using what should be a pretty easy stat to agree on .. yet ... in 3 of the 5 years U have COMPLETELY DIFFERENT #'S .... and in the other two years ... U do not have the same #'s ...
and yes .. I know why .. but when one of u gives ties and puts down all the spots and the other one uses the BEST NUMBER one year and the worst NUMBER the second time ... u see where the confusion lies???
and 05 is the BANNER YEAR for INCONSISTENCY in what should be a SIMPLE SIMPLE STAT to look up ...
U have him as 2nd ... and Gift has him 6th - 8th .... WOW ... thats not easy to do ....
and thats just the INCONSISTENCY in the rankings u guys came up with .. if u want me to actually BLOW YOUR BS UP .. I can do that ... just go ahead and ask ... or make your assinine argument again that folks just don't know how to INTERPRETE ONE STAT to rank players at a position on ....
and on a side note ...
Where did u guys get your stats from ... I went to NFL.Com and they had him for 31st in 06 .... and they had him for 3rd in 05 ...
where did u guys go .... and if u went to nfl.com what did u do differently?? .. cause the eliminating anyone with only 1 kick was only relevant to 08 .. in no other years did anyone have only 1 kick ... well at least not that finished ahead of Phil ..
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If I were getting paid to do this and could work in a program a little friendlier than "text" I'd show you those categories too. But since this board is what it is, I'm somewhat forced to simplify and work off one or two general stats.
My daddy always told me .. if your gonna do sumptin .. do it right or don't do it at all .. and this applies here ..
U want to make it easy and simple .. well in this case that leads to a WOEFUL LACK OF INFORMATION to draw VALID CONCLUSIONS FROM ... sorry .. but it is what it is ...
and u only used 1 stat ... not that two is alot better ... but u didn;t even use two stats ... U just used FG% and then applied it to 3 different categories .. SAME STAT ... DIFFERENT CATEGORIES ...
U should not have used stats at all if u could not use them right .. regardelss of why u did that ..
at least IMO U shouldn't have ..
Quote:
While generalized stats may not tell the whole truth they certainly give some indications of trending and overall performance. So quite crying " S A F L" everytime you see one you don't like .
It ahs nuttin to do with weather I like them or not ... when i use one stat to try and make a point .. i call myself a loser ... doesn't consistency count for anything anymore ...
Quote:
We all know one or two categories aren't a complete and all inclusive report.
then why did u do it Wise Guy .... 
those two sentances actually made me *L* .... good stuff ..
I agree with your overall assesment ... Phil is middle of the pack IMO .. maybe slightly above average .. I want my FG to be money from 20 - 39 ... and from my recollocation (not a stat mind u .. but from my memory .. *L*) .. Phil is money from there ...
and the thing about weather .. that works both ways ... look at guys like Hanson that play in perfect conditions ... theres 3 things about them that the weather crowd forget ......
1. guys like Phil and whoever the Jets/Gnats and the rest of the bad weather kickers are ... well when the weather is crappy .. they don't try lots of FG's .. unless there short and makeable ....
whats easier to do .. make a 25 yarder in a wind tunnell in C-town ... or kick 53 yarders inside in Detroit ....
*shrugs* ... I have no clue ...
2. when guys like Hanson and Rackers and Keading do venture into bad weather ... THERE DEAD ... they have very little to no experience in it ...
I remember two years ago (i believe .. it may have been 3 years ago) ... SD played back to back games in NE and Pitt in the last 2 or 3 weeks of the season .. and they played in HORRIBLE HORRIBLE conditions both weeks ..
so sometimes the "good" weather guys .. have it worse than the bad weather guys ...
3. guys that kick in perfect conditions are going to be asked to kick alot more longer FG's ... see guys like Hanson, Rackers, J. Brown. J. Kasay .. (since St.L .. cause seattle is no picnic .. especially in that new stadium) ...
and it onlygoes to reason .. the more long attempts u have .. the more your going to miss and have blocked .. as u need to kcik them at a lower trajectory than a short one ...
anyhow ... thats all from this blowhard ..
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Gotta tell ya, I've rarely had such a hard time trying to decide if I want to throw down with someone, or split a pitcher of beer with them - but you're that guy. ......hopefully that came across as light hearted cuz that's how I meant it. Quote:
Where did u guys get your stats from ... I went to NFL.Com and they had him for 31st in 06 .... and they had him for 3rd in 05 ...
I used nfl.com as well. After revisiting it I show PD as 31st in 2006 . For 2005 I have him tied for 3rd/4th. It looks like I clicked on "FG Made" ie - User Error.
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just clicking.
i hope we keep him cuz he's our only link to '99, plus he's made some great kicks for us. Give him a decent raise and chalk it up to appeasing the fans of a fan favourite & a clutch kicker, to boot.
no pun intended.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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Quote:
Gotta tell ya, I've rarely had such a hard time trying to decide if I want to throw down with someone, or split a pitcher of beer with them - but you're that guy.
Well where I grew up .. we'd go throw down, get up and dust each other and then go have beers ... so no need for U to get consternation over the decision .. we can just do them both ...
and most people on here just wanna knock the snot out of me .... so the fact that U even have a decision to make shows how far I've come in my efforts to play nicer with others ..
I bet Toad got his stats from one of two places ..
1. spinmaters,com ...
2. PullNumbersOutOfYourAss.com ...
even money is the odds ....
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Quote:
As is true with all positions, eventually a young gun will come along and take Phil's place. If it's this year, so be it. Because I don't think this FO bunch is gonna give any vet a raise before they see what this year brings.
Agreed, and if somebody comes along who is better than Phil I will be all for it. But until age catches up with him, I don't see it happening for a few years.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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I've seen more than one team let a good established kicker walk either because he wanted a little raise or because they got all googly eyed over some young stud with a huge leg... only to regret it later.
We should not be held hostage by Phil but until we have a relative degree of certainty that we HAVE an equal or better kicker, we should really try to work with him.
This team won 4 games last year, is projected to win 7 or 8 this year (at best)... the difference between winning 4 or 5 compared to 8 or 9 is going to be field goals.
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
I've seen more than one team let a good established kicker walk either because he wanted a little raise or because they got all googly eyed over some young stud with a huge leg... only to regret it later.
We should not be held hostage by Phil but until we have a relative degree of certainty that we HAVE an equal or better kicker, we should really try to work with him.
This team won 4 games last year, is projected to win 7 or 8 this year (at best)... the difference between winning 4 or 5 compared to 8 or 9 is going to be field goals.
The Browns should not be held hostage by anyone,...
I would like to think it will be because the offense scored some TD's instead. We cannot rely on just field goals to win, but Phil will be as good as anyone in the stated situation(s).
He should probably be paid whatever the average NFL kicker salary is (but not because he is "average.") Either that or by some sliding scale based on peformance against the results of every other kicker.
Agreed for sure, he just cannot be allowed to walk (or sit.) His longevity as a Cleveland Brown should be factored in somehow too.
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I bet Toad got his stats from one of two places ..
1. spinmaters,com ...
2. PullNumbersOutOfYourAss.com ...
even money is the odds ....
Or.........a third option is ESPN, but one of the first two will always be a possibility just to see if I keep people on their toes
Viewers have to be careful when using those stats as there are no qualifying parameters to meet, which is to say they include kickers who have only one attempt (Rayner and Tynes).
Which brings me back to the truth:
LOSERS CAN'T UNDERSTAND STATS!!! 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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