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*** INDIANAPOLIS -- The Browns were one of several teams reminded this week by the NFL that players are not supposed to "meet" with coaches or be given playbooks during this period of the off-season. The issue came up, according to sources, after a story in The Plain Dealer reporting that quarterback Colt McCoy had been meeting with new coach Pat Shurmur since the Super Bowl. It was also reported that the Browns intended to give McCoy a portion of Shurmur's offensive playbook before the possible owners lockout on March 4 so that McCoy would have something to study during the work stoppage. In comments not used in the original story, Browns President Mike Holmgren said on Wednesday, "It's an interesting time. Organizations have to be very careful on how you do things. You can't do anything you haven't done in the past. The fact Pat Shurmur is new ... Colt and some players have come in. We can give him a playbook, have him study it, but you can't have meetings. You have all this stuff going on, so at the very least you've got to be able to give him [a playbook]." Apparently, not so. At a meeting with coaches and GMs at the NFL Scouting Combine, the league pointed out that existing rules forbid meetings with coaches and the dispensing of playbooks until the official start of off-season conditioning programs on March 15. The league is saying the off-season rules were a concession to the wishes of the players union, which did not want coaches pressuring players to meet with coaches until the off-season programs kicked off. Shurmur and Browns GM Tom Heckert declined to expound on the meeting with league officials. Heckert said, "I'm not going to get into what we can and can't do. There are rules on everything. We're just going about it as whatever they say, we are going to obey them." Shurmur denied that he and McCoy have held "meetings" to discuss the team's new offense. He said some of the Browns players working out in the team's headquarters have simply stopped in to meet their new head coach. "There's a new head coach in the building and they're just curious about coming in and meeting him," Shurmur said. "I haven't told any of them to come in. I think it's just normal protocol. We're just getting to know one another." It is ridiculous, of course, for the league not to allow players to get a jumpstart on their new offense or defense voluntarily. But these are not ordinary times and the league apparently is going to play hardball with the players union every chance it gets. It figures: The Browns are one of a handful of teams that have changed coaches and are implementing completely new systems on both offense and defense. Therefore, they would appear to suffer more hardships in an owners lockout and complete league shutdown. Shurmur, however, will have none of that. "Whatever happens, 32 teams will be in the same situation. I'm not worried about it," he said. "I feel as though we've hired some great teachers and the systems we're going to teach and employ are proven. I trust and am confident that we'll get it done." More hardball: NFL coaches will feel the effects of a lockout in their paychecks. According to Larry Kennan, executive director of the NFL Coaches Association, as many as 20 percent of coaches in the NFL will see paycuts approximating 30 percent if there is a lockout beyond 30 days. Kennan said any new coach hired in the past three years -- head coaches and assistants -- have had to agree to lockout language in their contracts. Two teams have indicated immediate paycuts and possible termination if there is a lockout, Kennan said. "The 'good' teams have said they will conduct business as usual as long as they can," Kennan said. "They also say paycuts would be recouped when the lockout ends." Kennan said the lockout language has fueled talk of the coaches forming a union to recoup perks they lost when the economy soured in 2009. Since then, 12 teams have removed coaches from team pension plans and reduced or eliminated other benefits. The teams that ceased pension benefits, Kennan said, are San Diego, Arizona, Atlanta, San Francisco, New Orleans, Buffalo, Jacksonville, New England, Dallas, Houston, Washington and Tampa Bay. More reax on Shurmur: St. Louis Rams General Manager Billy Devaney believes Shurmur, the club's offensive coordinator the past two years, will be a successful head coach. "You know, you hear the stuff about players and coaches 'getting it.' More than anything, Pat gets it," Devaney said. "He's got a great way with players, relating to them, understanding them. Knowing when to push, when to back off. He's got a really good offensive mind. But besides that, just the way he relates with players I think is fantastic." Asked for specifics, Devaney cited Shurmur's role in developing quarterback Sam Bradford in his rookie year. "The way he interacted with same. [Former QB coach] Dick Curl and Pat were the two guys that were around Sam all last year," Devaney said. "The way those guys just hit it off and the way they worked well together the whole season I think was really impressive." PD
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lol @ this... I mean what do the nfl offices think is gonna happen...
New coaches, new offense, new defense, and the possiblity of less preseason games, and shorter training camps b/c of it...
I'm getting my playobook to my QB by any mean necessary... My 3rd cousins best friend who stays across the street would be delivering that thing. lol.
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Quote:
lol @ this... I mean what do the nfl offices think is gonna happen...
New coaches, new offense, new defense, and the possiblity of less preseason games, and shorter training camps b/c of it...
I'm getting my playobook to my QB by any mean necessary... My 3rd cousins best friend who stays across the street would be delivering that thing. lol.
I suppose they feel they have good reasons for this, but honestly,, come on. Is Colt McCoy gonna be the starter? YES, is Colt McCoy familiar with the new offense? NO.. What the heck do they think is gonna happen  Its almost laughable....
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Yeah turk, if I was Shurmur i wouldn't care if I had to a hire a team of Viet Cong to build me a tunnel to Colt's house in Texas, Colt would be getting his playbook.
Go Browns!!![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/BrowniePoints/AndersonSnowPic.jpg)
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I'd care if the league starts docking me draft picks for violating league rules.
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I'd care if the league starts docking me draft picks for violating league rules.
They'd have to prove it and if a QB is dopey enough to let the authorities know he got a playbook then we wouldn't have to wait 2 years to see if we needed to draft a top 10 QB.
Go Browns!!
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At a meeting with coaches and GMs at the NFL Scouting Combine, the league pointed out that existing rules forbid meetings with coaches and the dispensing of playbooks until the official start of off-season conditioning programs on March 15. The league is saying the off-season rules were a concession to the wishes of the players union
Union rules. 
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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lol @ this... I mean what do the nfl offices think is gonna happen...
New coaches, new offense, new defense, and the possiblity of less preseason games, and shorter training camps b/c of it...
I'm getting my playobook to my QB by any mean necessary... My 3rd cousins best friend who stays across the street would be delivering that thing. lol.
I suppose they feel they have good reasons for this, but honestly,, come on. Is Colt McCoy gonna be the starter? YES, is Colt McCoy familiar with the new offense? NO.. What the heck do they think is gonna happen Its almost laughable....
None the less, the rules have to be followed. You can bet a few teams in our division know we have made chages and can bet your sweet bippie they help make sure we follow the same rules as them.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I'm pretty sure they don't care.. b/c each of them are confident that they could beat us regardless..
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Good points Peen, but hey folks look at it like this Colt has already opened 'Pandora's box'. So he is going to have to be the QB and Coach to the players whom he will be working out with him.
Trouble is that they won't be able to make the adjustments a Coach would offer.
There is no way to candy coat this...it sux, but they have to abide by the rules as they have had their warning now.
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Isn't Colt good friends with Sam Bradford? Perhaps a nice steak dinner could get Colt a copy of last year's Rams playbook. It isn't the Browns playbook, he didn't get it from the Browns (though it should be fairly similar) and Bradford doesn't need it nor should the Rams care because they will also be implementing a brand new offense. 
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown.
Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
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Well shoot, for that matter you could have all of the browns play Madden and just select the Rams offense ...
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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Quote:
Isn't Colt good friends with Sam Bradford? Perhaps a nice steak dinner could get Colt a copy of last year's Rams playbook. It isn't the Browns playbook, he didn't get it from the Browns (though it should be fairly similar) and Bradford doesn't need it nor should the Rams care because they will also be implementing a brand new offense.
Way to think out of the box.
I'm sure Colt will pump his buddy for all he can get out of them. Even if he doesn't have a play book he most likely kept notes.
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Maybe we put the Fear of Gawd in 'em. Because if we ever get him a playbook, the Coltster will go crazy on opponents. I guess we gotta damn the newspapers for leaking this hot edge we don't have going, neh? 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Quote:
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lol @ this... I mean what do the nfl offices think is gonna happen...
New coaches, new offense, new defense, and the possiblity of less preseason games, and shorter training camps b/c of it...
I'm getting my playobook to my QB by any mean necessary... My 3rd cousins best friend who stays across the street would be delivering that thing. lol.
I suppose they feel they have good reasons for this, but honestly,, come on. Is Colt McCoy gonna be the starter? YES, is Colt McCoy familiar with the new offense? NO.. What the heck do they think is gonna happen Its almost laughable....
None the less, the rules have to be followed. You can bet a few teams in our division know we have made chages and can bet your sweet bippie they help make sure we follow the same rules as them.
Yeah, they are always followed aren't they? Anyway, yes, the rules should be followed.. What I'm saying is, it's s stupid rule..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Wouldn't this become a moot point if the union de-certifies like they are saying they will?
#gmstrong
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Never mind, a lawyer on Mike and Mike answered my question. The answer is yes. The team can do what they want. However the players may have a problem with this.
#gmstrong
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Maybe it's time for ColtQB_2010 vs Shurmurator matchup on Madden using custom plays.  Hey, they we're playing a video game, not discussing plays or going over the playbook. 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Quote:
Never mind, a lawyer on Mike and Mike answered my question. The answer is yes. The team can do what they want. However the players may have a problem with this.
Yes but there is just one hitch in the kiddy up.
Under the rules of the expiring CBA the Union is not permitted to Decertify for (6) months under that agreement.
So the League may not honor their Decertification.
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... if they wait until after the CBA expires. It's immediate if they do it prior to the expiration. Decertification would have to be a pre-emptive strike.
Crowded elevators smell different to short people...
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... if they wait until after the CBA expires. It's immediate if they do it prior to the expiration. Decertification would have to be a pre-emptive strike.
So in fact what you are suggesting is that the players will go on strike prior to March 4th. ???
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Quote:
Quote:
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lol @ this... I mean what do the nfl offices think is gonna happen...
New coaches, new offense, new defense, and the possiblity of less preseason games, and shorter training camps b/c of it...
I'm getting my playobook to my QB by any mean necessary... My 3rd cousins best friend who stays across the street would be delivering that thing. lol.
I suppose they feel they have good reasons for this, but honestly,, come on. Is Colt McCoy gonna be the starter? YES, is Colt McCoy familiar with the new offense? NO.. What the heck do they think is gonna happen Its almost laughable....
None the less, the rules have to be followed. You can bet a few teams in our division know we have made chages and can bet your sweet bippie they help make sure we follow the same rules as them.
Yeah, they are always followed aren't they? Anyway, yes, the rules should be followed.. What I'm saying is, it's s stupid rule..
I agree, mostly because it's basically unenforceable,...
Yeah, put stuff in the CBA that negates a player getting better,.... 
The stupidity never ends.
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OooRah it was the Players union that pushed to have that written in the last CBA. I'm just saying the League is bound by those rules because of this.
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... if they wait until after the CBA expires. It's immediate if they do it prior to the expiration. Decertification would have to be a pre-emptive strike.
So in fact what you are suggesting is that the players will go on strike prior to March 4th. ???
No, decertification is not the same as a strike. If the union dissolves, then people go back to work (since there can be no lockout) until the courts do their work. I'm looking for the the article, but I read this morning that there is a deadline to decertify, and it's very soon (I'm taking the bolded area below to say it's when the current deal expires), but per Peter King, it must happen this week or there is a 6 month wait to dissolve.
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I think I don't mean to downplay the importance of the labor negotiations, but I don't find them particularly interesting, particularly in a week when there's lots of other things happening. But I see a few options in how this week could unfold: The NFL could get an extension to the March 4 deadline for the expiration of the current CBA, which could happen but seems inconsequential because it's not going to push the two sides to an agreement. The players association could decertify, which seems certain if the extension doesn't happen, because a decertification can't happen for six months if it doesn't happen this week, and it's so vital to the players' cause. Third, the owners could lock them out. Or the players could decertify and there could be no lockout. Of course, a midweek decision in the Minnesota TV lawsuit could change all of that. So stay tuned.
Link
Therefore, decertification would have to come before the expiration of the current deal.
Crowded elevators smell different to short people...
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 I know,...that's why it seems so stupid.
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OooRah it was the Players union that pushed to have that written in the last CBA. I'm just saying the League is bound by those rules because of this.
Seems to me that the players union probably had this downtime worked into the contract for just that reason.. no contact between coach and players, no giving out new playbook material, etc so that the coaching staff had to give the players a break, had to give them from the end of the season until some date in march...
yebat' Putin
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OooRah it was the Players union that pushed to have that written in the last CBA. I'm just saying the League is bound by those rules because of this.
From my point of view, I don't care who's rule it is,, its stupid and as OhhRah said, unenforcable....
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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Quote:
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OooRah it was the Players union that pushed to have that written in the last CBA. I'm just saying the League is bound by those rules because of this.
Seems to me that the players union probably had this downtime worked into the contract for just that reason.. no contact between coach and players, no giving out new playbook material, etc so that the coaching staff had to give the players a break, had to give them from the end of the season until some date in march...
Good explanation,....plausible.
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Thanks for the good information on this issue.
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Quote:
Quote:
OooRah it was the Players union that pushed to have that written in the last CBA. I'm just saying the League is bound by those rules because of this.
Seems to me that the players union probably had this downtime worked into the contract for just that reason.. no contact between coach and players, no giving out new playbook material, etc so that the coaching staff had to give the players a break, had to give them from the end of the season until some date in march...
That makes since for the majority and I can certainly see why they had that wrote in to the CBA, but 'we' are part of the minority, being one of the teams in transition.
So no matter how you chalk it up...
It sux! For are guys.
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Dolphins’ coaches work with Chad Henne in apparent violation of NFL rules Posted by Michael David Smith on February 28, 2011, 7:53 PM EST C. Henne2 The Miami Dolphins could find themselves in hot water with the league office today, after quarterback Chad Henne revealed that he has been working with new offensive coordinator Brian Daboll and quarterbacks coach Karl Dorrell — in apparent violation of NFL rules. “[O]nce we signed Coach Brian Daboll, I tried to get into there as quick as I could to learn the offense,” Henne told the Miami Herald. “I’ve been meeting with him for the last month now. I feel pretty comfortable with what he’s teaching and what the offense is going to be.” But as the Herald‘s Armando Salguero points out, NFL rules don’t allow Henne to work with Daboll, Dorrell or anyone else on the Dolphins’ coaching staff. This is the same rule that prohibited Rams quarterback Sam Bradford from working with new offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels. Henne also said he’d like to become so knowledgeable about Daboll’s offense that he could run his own minicamp during the looming lockout — which would open another can of worms, as players who are active in the union (including Eric Winston on today’s PFT Live) are increasingly speaking out against players engaging in unpaid practices while the owners are locking them out. Now we wonder whether Henne will be hearing from his union, and whether the Dolphins will be hearing from the league office. web page
You know my love will Not Fade Away.........
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Quote:
Henne also said he’d like to become so knowledgeable about Daboll’s offense that he could run his own minicamp during the looming lockout — which would open another can of worms, as players who are active in the union (including Eric Winston on today’s PFT Live) are increasingly speaking out against players engaging in unpaid practices while the owners are locking them out.
Same thing I said about Colt.
Thanks for the related story.
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I wonder how long it will be before some players decide they don't want to be in the union??
If the union does decertify later this week, I wonder if one will ever replace it??
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Quote:
I wonder how long it will be before some players decide they don't want to be in the union??
If the union does decertify later this week, I wonder if one will ever replace it??
yes.
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Even if they decertify, the union will re-form. Without the bargaining power that a union holds, the owners hold all of the cards as opposed to half of the cards.
Right now (and back when they voted to de-certify) they used the threat of decertification as a tactic to prevent a lockout. Nothing more nothing less.
As fans, we don't want either thing to happen as it will indicate this will truly be a long siege......however, a decertification of the union in 1989 is what led to them being granted Free Agency in 1993.....so all bets are off as to whether or not it will happen.
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Probably so.....it was more a thinking out loud comment.
It's a shame things have to be so darn complicated.
This isn't like 15 people trying to carve up 1 turkey. It's like having 15 people and 16 turkeys with the argument centered on who gets which turkey and what to do with the extra.
All the while the birds are sitting out, soon to go bad.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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That's one hell of an analogy. 
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I like the analogy. Unrelated to the current meaningful discussion... I'm surprised nobody has made a crack about Henne being so worried to get up to speed on Daboll's offense (that predictable, unimaginative, stagnating offense we saw last year). The first thing I thought of is, "What is he so worried about needing to learn?"
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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All Pro
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I really feel bad for guys in Henne and Colts position.
for Henne this season is probably IT for him as a chance as a starter. If he doesn't soldiify his roll He probably wont get a chance next year. If I was him, I would say to hell with the rules, get me that playbook. He has more money at risk if he fails as a starter than what the Union can get him by pushing for more pieces of the pie. similar but with Colt. We need to see Colt improve this season. a young QB craming at spring camp isn't the best way to get there.
On a slightley different note......can any of these Running backs afford to lose a year. Isn't there average like 4 years?
"He who buys what he does not need steals from himself."
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Posts: 5,718 |
Quote:
If I was him, I would say to hell with the rules, get me that playbook. He has more money at risk if he fails as a starter than what the Union can get him by pushing for more pieces of the pie.
But what about the TEAM and lost draft picks?
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