DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Is Shurmur as much responsible for last year’s 4-12 record, as anyone?

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2.) The loss to the St. Louis Rams, Offensive Coordinator Pat Shumur while within the 10 yard line did not call a pass play into the end zone but instead just tried positioning the team for a field goal (Browns missed, after a bad long snap). The problem with only going for a field goal was the Rams would still have 2 minutes left in playing time, and would have just needed a 3 point FG to win.
Why not try for the touchdown at least once?

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There were 4 games we lost that can be directly linked to Head Coach/OC Pat Shurmur involvement.

1.) The Browns season opener against the Cincinnati Bengals on a "quick-snap" play by Bruce Gradkowski to A.J. Green for a touchdown. This blunder by Coach Shurmur and the coaching staff lost the game. imho

2.) The loss to the St. Louis Rams, Offensive Coordinator Pat Shumur while within the 10 yard line did not call a pass play into the end zone but instead just tried positioning the team for a field goal (Browns missed, after a bad long snap). The problem with only going for a field goal was the Rams would still have 2 minutes left in playing time, and would have just needed a 3 point FG to win.
Why not try for the touchdown at least once? Also during the same game Head Coach/OC Pat Shrumur (after the game) admitted he was confused and made a bad call to hand-off to backup TE Alex Smith on the goal line, who then fumbled it.

3.) Steelers game concussion resulting in a McCoy interception. (Enough said here)

4.) During the Ravens game first half with 57 seconds on the clock, the side line was so disorganized that time ran out on run play called at 3rd yard line, so was not even a field goal was attempted.


So, without the rookie head coach mistakes we might have been 8-8? Not sure, but it would have been more likely. Eric Mangin was 5-11 each year he was Head Coach for the Browns (a very bad 10-22 overall), currently Shurmur is 4-12. So, what can we expect this year? I would say 6-10 at best (would love 8-8, but very, very unlike). Talking heads are giving us 2 wins…wow 2 wins for 2012…It seems many on here (DT) think 6-10 record this season is what to expect. This would match the oh-so-bad 2 years with Mangini’s 10-22 record, yet will anyone call for Shurmur’s head if we end up at 6-10. I assume not, as it would show we are improving.

I am still on board with a 6-10 record with McCoy as #2 and 5-11 with Wallace. I am assuming Weeden will be taken out during the season for a few games, since he is not very mobile and old for a rookie. Why old matters you ask, because rookies are sacked, a lot, just ask any ex-Brown’s QB and 29 year old doesn’t recover like a 23 year old. So I see him sidelined for a few games. As such, McCoy will give us the best chance to win 1 for 2 or 3 games he would start as Weeden backup. Wallace is 1-7 so far with the Browns, and he is another year older, I just don’t see him winning any games for us.

So here’s my question, not a poll, but as many he have listed their predictions for the 2012 season, does that prediction include a firing of Shurmur, or even a clean sweep from Mike down? Or, no changes as the team is progressing.

I hate to say this, but I think I would like to see Shurmur gone, and have Mike come step to become Head Coach, but that would require a 2-14 or 0-16 season. Not fun…

Please move if this post if incorrectly posted, or delete if you think it is a waste…lol

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With the amount of "talent" on this team, Vince Lombardi wouldn't have won 6 games.

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With the amount of "talent" on this team, Vince Lombardi wouldn't have won 6 games.

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I think that Shurmur had 3 problems last year:

1) He had no off-season to prepare himself, or his team, for the season.

2) He had limited talent on the team, especially in key positions.

3) The lack of talented offensive coaches forced Shurmur to overload himself, leading to mistakes, like the Bengals play, where he was looking ahead to plays when the Browns got the ball back instead of managing the team, and paying attention to what was happening on the field.

This year he has more talent on the team, has a full off-season, and has added talented coaches who are on the same page he's on. I think that we should see improvement this year.

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Wouldn't #1 and #3 be Shurmur's fault? Yes, he's a rookie Head Coach, but rookie and head coach to me almost sounds like a Contradiction. So I might have greater expectations of the highest paid coach on a team.

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With the amount of "talent" on this team, Vince Lombardi wouldn't have won 6 games.

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Oh, you wish to quantify it to wins only.........

I'd bet you any amount of money that Lombardis clock management, play caling, leadership and decisivness would have been 10 times better than Shurmers.

Shurmer was no less at fault for last years misery than Colt, the lack of a running game and poor WR's were.

However, he was a rookie HC. Along with that comes mistakes. I will say I expect vast improvement this year or I will be leaning in the direction that we can no longer continue what would appear to be a losing experiment.

Our talent level is improving. If Shurmer can't coach it up to its potential, we must capitalize it with someone who can.....

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I give you a big on that.

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Oh, you wish to quantify it to wins only.........

I'd bet you any amount of money that Lombardis clock management, play caling, leadership and decisivness would have been 10 times better than Shurmers.

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No, it's called "sarcasm" just as what threw out there is called "hyperbole."

With that defense, offensive line, running back committee, receiving group, and QB's, and a healthy pinch of asking a rookie HC to also be OC, and you get a guy that would look like a rookie head coach.

AS responsible as the rest? No way. Coaches don't make teams great. Players do. No talent means no wins, and this team hasn't had talent for years, especially at the key positions.

Shurmur wasn't the shining light in a sea of darkness but can't possibly share the same amount of blame as the players.

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With that defense, offensive line, running back committee, receiving group, and QB's, and a healthy pinch of asking a rookie HC to also be OC, and you get a guy that would look like a rookie head coach.

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AS responsible as the rest? No way. Coaches don't make teams great. Players do. No talent means no wins, and this team hasn't had talent for years, especially at the key positions.

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Shurmur wasn't the shining light in a sea of darkness but can't possibly share the same amount of blame as the players.

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You know, I didn't know he was "asked" to be both the HC and OC? Who was it that asked him to do that? Did someone tell him he wasn't allowed to hire an OC last year?

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Hey, I want to be President.

Doesn't mean I'm ready for the task.

Holmgren essentially said he couldn't land the guy(s) he really wanted so he left it up to Shurmur. Sure, he wanted the job, and sure, he looked overwhelmed at times.

As you said, though, you expect growing pains.

That isn't the same as being as culpable as the players.

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Yes, he's as responsible for his job performance as an NFL HC as Colt was for being responsable for his job as a QB.

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That's an answer to a different question...well, let's call this thread what it is, which is an accusation, not a question.

Does Shurmur deserve as much blame as the players? That's not what you've compared. You've compared whether each guy is responsible for his own job description, which is a different animal.

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You equate that strictly to W's and L's. That's where we differ.

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No, I use success as my barometer, which isn't synonymous with Wins and Losses. You drew that conclusion from my sarcastic zing about the talent and Lombardi.

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I don't think Shurmer could have taken the team we had last year to the playofs. I don' tthink we had the talent for him to have a winning record.

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Good. That means you're not insane afterall.

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For some reason that seems to be what you feel I'm indicating here and it's not.But what he did have control over was clock management, playcalling and instiling some sense of confidence in this team.

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Nope, I don't think you're indicating that at all. All I've done is draw a correlation between the lack of talent and the perceived success (or lack thereof) of Shurmur.

I do agree that his clock-management had challenges. I would disagree on the level that his playcalling hurt the team. I've always stated he was handcuffed because of what he had to work with. The sorrier the players the more simplistic of an offense you have to run.

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The talent is getting better. Shurmer has a year under his belt. As such, the foolish clock mamnagement, predictable playcalling and overall disaray on the sidelines should be far less as well.

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He should be fired if those things aren't corrected, especially with the knowledge that Childress brings to the table.

But we're going down a different road now, aren't we, Pit

This thread feels like it's designed to put Shurmur on trial. The original question doesn't really seem like a question at all.

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I just want to see them win some games, call me crazy.

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Ok, you're crazy.

C'mon, Dawgface, you're a Browns fan. You can't expect wins. It's not something we've done in a generation.

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Is Shurmur as much responsible for last year’s 4-12 record, as anyone?

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I would disagree on the level that his playcalling hurt the team. I've always stated he was handcuffed because of what he had to work with. The sorrier the players the more simplistic of an offense you have to run

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Shurmur is responsible for installing an offensive system based on quick decision making and playmaking ability after the catch. He tried to do that with offensive players not fully suited for our system. Such players included Hillis, who couldn't adapt to the new scheme, Colt McCoy, who took too long to make throws, and a plethora of WRs with horrible hands.

I like how you refused to even mention Dick Jauron. I mean he controls the defense which is supposed to stop teams from scoring....

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