Browns waive Thad Lewis - DawgTalkers.net

jc...

It's remarkable how quickly Hoyer overtook Lewis, competing for the #3 QB slot...signed on Friday and immediately moved ahead of Lewis as the #3 QB.

Lewis likely knew he was not going to get a chance to compete for the job and that was just confirmed last evening when Lewis got dumped.

All Banner's talk about competing for a job...just BULL...

Anyone signed by Heckert or a previous front office it likely gone ASAP. The players know what's going on.

So who's next...Hardesty...Greco...Pinkston...Lauvao

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jc...

It's remarkable how quickly Hoyer overtook Lewis, competing for the #3 QB slot...signed on Friday and immediately moved ahead of Lewis as the #3 QB.

Lewis likely knew he was not going to get a chance to compete for the job and that was just confirmed last evening when Lewis got dumped.

All Banner's talk about competing for a job...just BULL...

Anyone signed by Heckert or a previous front office it likely gone ASAP. The players know what's going on.

So who's next...Hardesty...Greco...Pinkston...Lauvao

Mac, we are talking about a third string QB (insert Iverson "practice" video now), not the competition that is going on to be the starter. How many reps do you think Lewis and Hoyer would have been given in TC to see who wins out? Yeah, I guess an argument could be made for preseason performance....but,

....clearly Lombardi wanted Hoyer over Lewis AND Hoyer actually has decent experience playing in the NFL. Lewis has played one game. I think that trumps any competition for who become the 3rd stringer who probably doesn't even suit up on game day. I think there is thinking from Lombardi that Hoyer can be a starter, but that's conjecture on my part. He's praised him before. Still it could be a reason why they signed him and why they were so quick to releasing Lewis. I really have no issue with this transaction. I think our QB depth increased by flip-flopping these two guys.

Throw Long...you crack me up

Thanks...Lewis significant...lol good one!

Mac, Mac, Mac:

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It's remarkable how quickly Hoyer overtook Lewis, competing for the #3 QB slot...signed on Friday and immediately moved ahead of Lewis as the #3 QB.

All Banner's talk about competing for a job...just BULL...Anyone signed by Heckert or a previous front office it likely gone ASAP.

1. This is probably the least BLOW UP we have ever seen from a new Regime. There is no validity to any of that about Anyone is LIKELY GONE none at all! Just upgrades.

2. I got news for you...there is no such thing as a COMPETITION for the #3 QB. Hoyer n Lewis n anyone coming here aren't doing so licking their chops think...BOY OH BOY I'm going to WIN THAT #3 QB position...lol

Fair competition??? I hope there is one going on in the Locker Room for the guy who hands out the TOWELS...I'm going to be real mad at Banner if he reneges on his promise of competition

Come on Mac...if this doesn't spell bias to the new Regime I don't know what does. THERE IS NO COMPETITION for 3rd string QB...thats a hire n fire thing.
Note the 3rd string QB is the guy with the Hat on backwards, with clip board in hand for taking stats n is always on the INACTIVE list. So just tell me JUST WHAT SKILLS do they compete for...HANDWRITING? Who looks Better with the CAP ON?

Well its obvious to me Hoyer hands down is better at his clipboard duties than LEWIS.

Back to the Release...I was really really hoping to get a 7th round pick or something for Lewis as he has followed Shurmur n when he got the start it was obvious that Shurmur believed in him. He has mobility n knows Shurmurs input if any into the new offense there in Philly. Oh well now we are doomed without that 7th round pick...man does this FO suck!

yeah, it's funny right? i mean, if we would have selected Tyler Bray in the 7th round and cut Thad because of the draft pick, then would he have complained?

same idea, but we used a middling FA pickup instead of a middling draft prospect.

Sealed fate when Hoyer was signed.

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It's remarkable how quickly Hoyer overtook Lewis, competing for the #3 QB slot...signed on Friday and immediately moved ahead of Lewis as the #3 QB.

Not nearly as remarkable as Weeden being named the starter w/out taking one snap in practice last year. Did you complain about that one, mac?

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Throw Long...you crack me up Thanks...Lewis significant...lol good one!

Mac, Mac, Mac:

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It's remarkable how quickly Hoyer overtook Lewis, competing for the #3 QB slot...signed on Friday and immediately moved ahead of Lewis as the #3 QB.

All Banner's talk about competing for a job...just BULL...Anyone signed by Heckert or a previous front office it likely gone ASAP.

1. This is probably the least BLOW UP we have ever seen from a new Regime. There is no validity to any of that about Anyone is LIKELY GONE none at all! Just upgrades.

2. I got news for you...there is no such thing as a COMPETITION for the #3 QB. Hoyer n Lewis n anyone coming here aren't doing so licking their chops think...BOY OH BOY I'm going to WIN THAT #3 QB position...lol

Fair competition??? I hope there is one going on in the Locker Room for the guy who hands out the TOWELS...I'm going to be real mad at Banner if he reneges on his promise of competition

Come on Mac...if this doesn't spell bias to the new Regime I don't know what does. THERE IS NO COMPETITION for 3rd string QB...thats a hire n fire thing.
Note the 3rd string QB is the guy with the Hat on backwards, with clip board in hand for taking stats n is always on the INACTIVE list. So just tell me JUST WHAT SKILLS do they compete for...HANDWRITING? Who looks Better with the CAP ON?

Well its obvious to me Hoyer hands down is better at his clipboard duties than LEWIS.

Back to the Release...I was really really hoping to get a 7th round pick or something for Lewis as he has followed Shurmur n when he got the start it was obvious that Shurmur believed in him. He has mobility n knows Shurmurs input if any into the new offense there in Philly. Oh well now we are doomed without that 7th round pick...man does this FO suck!

competition for the 3rd string qb. its more like the new king rules!

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.... Rat Shurmur...

C'mon, guys. You're above that...yes?

obviously not.

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Come on Mac...if this doesn't spell bias to the new Regime I don't know what does. THERE IS NO COMPETITION for 3rd string QB...thats a hire n fire thing.

EO...exactly my point...there was no competition...thus this idea that players "are competing" for a job...just BS from the front office. The only thing that matters is who brought you to Cleveland and if it wasn't this front office, you are headed out the door, regardless of what you have proven on the field.

Hoyer, who has done NOTHING for the Browns is picked up, signed to a 2 yr contract and "given" the #3 QB slot, without throwing a pass for the Browns.

You pass it off as it's only a backup position, therefore it doesn't matter...we disagree.

I think it does matter, especially to the players. I believe players will look at this move along with many of the moves and realize, it doesn't matter what they do on the field, this front office wants you out if they didn't pick you.

Lewis, who worked as a backup for 2 yrs with the Browns, finally got a shot at starting last Dec and had a pretty good game against the Steelers. As a Browns fan, it made you feel good to see Lewis progress over his 2 yrs with the team and show that he wasn't just an empty jersey...he could play if called upon.

Lewis' only sin...not being chosen by this front office.

As for my "bias"...I believe this is the worst front office the Browns have had in years. Banner has never been in charge of the football side of a team and Lombardi has never been a GM...there are reasons 31 other NFL teams passed on hiring Banner or Lombardi...

In Philly, Banner created a lot of problems within the franchise that went all the way to the locker room. After being fired, Banner commented on a need for him to change...but I see nothing (so far) that indicates Banner has any intention of changing.

Banner seems to enjoy using his "power"...hanging it over the heads of the players and staff, thinking that is the way to get the best performance from those who work for him. I believe Banner has a huge ego problem...

As for Lombardi, I see him as nothing more than Banner's "yes man" and believe that is the main reason Banner hired him.

I'm not a follower...I'm not on the Banner/Lombardi band wagon...I prefer to let them prove themselves rather than simply handing over my support as a lifelong Browns fan.

My fear is that Banner, who now has unlimited power over the Browns, will misuse and abuse his power and screw this team just like he did the Eagles, as he attempts to micro manage everything.

This team has been building for the future and now that we are in year 4 of the rebuild, it is a critical point where the fans should begin to see the results on field.

The question becomes, can Banner can keep his fingers out of the coaching area and the locker room?...he couldn't do it in Philly !

...jmho...mac

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It's remarkable how quickly Hoyer overtook Lewis, competing for the #3 QB slot...signed on Friday and immediately moved ahead of Lewis as the #3 QB.

Not nearly as remarkable as Weeden being named the starter w/out taking one snap in practice last year. Did you complain about that one, mac?

vers...so tell us, just when was Brandon Weeden named the starter?

Hopefully you can admit to being "wrong" !

No. The only time I wouldn't call him Rat was his last presser after his last game coaching this team, where the man's emotions for the team were displayed for all to see.

I don't hate "Pat", and it isn't a matter of not respecting him - just a matter of he was an incredibly large buzz kill as head coach, and even worse as coordinator/play caller. Hopefully he learned a lot of "things not to do ever again if I "ever again" get another HC role" here. He needs to look at the NFL offenses and just burn his outdated and ineffective playbook.

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No. The only time I wouldn't call him Rat...

Really? Oh well, I tried....

mac...I know this might go on n on cause you will never state the words, MY BAD n make concessions in a discussion. But I will try to discuss some of this so that my buddy Vers does not get banned by answering you...lol

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EO...exactly my point...there was no competition...thus this idea that players "are competing" for a job...just BS from the front office.

Point? or Anger with this FO without any DATA here to complain about.

there is Competition for Starting Spots. There is competition for rotational positions. But if you look around the NFL there is not competition for the BOTTOM of the BARREL - every team will try to improve their bottom end by releasing n signing players.

I always thought any positives of Lewis was simply he has known NO OTHER program than Shurmur's as an NFL QB. This would translate to the words...System QB. So we are looking at the Bottom of our Barrel the #3 QB position. We made a move to upgrade that Bottom. Whether you agree or not is not the question. Its something that we did. Its something every team in the NFL does. They sign an available player n release another. We signed a player/QB that we felt fit our system more than the OTHER at the bottom of our barrel. This is no AHA moment to J'Accuse Liar liar no competition. Just a natural process prevalent throughout the NFL.

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You pass it off as it's only a backup position, therefore it doesn't matter...we disagree.

I don't pass it off as that - its not a backup position that would be #2 QB.
Its the position that automatically is INACTIVE every game as long as your #1 n 2 are healthy. There is no position out there with a similar AUTOMATIC INACTIVE LIST.

It is the one position that Teams debate on actually carrying on the roster. You always read discussion about one team thinking of carrying just 2 QBs to have a ROSTER SPOT. The only argument ever made is not about the importance of competition to upgrade themselves...the argument is simply its dangerous in case of INJURY. It probably is the most USELESS POSITION on the 53 man Roster. Its only credential is IN CASE OF INJURY. That is it. And usually if there is serious injuries to #1 n #2 a team will scramble to pick up a veteran FA to lead the team...unless they do a LOSE FOR THE #1 pick kind of thing.

I am not passing ANYTHING OFF...I'm speaking the truth about NFL FOOTBALL! Outside of your distrust to Banner/Lombardi what do you have to Make a "POINT" that is valid.

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As for my "bias"...I believe this is the worst front office the Browns have had in years.

Well thank you for defining your "BIAS" you said it right there - with no data or proof backed by the little that has been done so far. Simply due to your "BELIEF" which actually defines your "BIAS"

Coaching Staff hires: Where do you disagree?
FA signings: Where is this heinous to support your claim. All look to have a purpose n are sound.
Draft: Where is this terrible draft - trading our 4th n 5th rounders. for a 3rd n 4th rounder in what has been recognized as a stronger draft class? Draft Grades from Bozo's who don't have a clue by quality (nobody really knows till 2-4 years later) so they go by Quantity. I can guarantee you with our extra picks no in 2014 we will automatically have a B+ grade just by the Quantity.

Mac...I was very skeptical from the onset - especially after the signing of Lombardi. To the guys telling me I was wrong. I simply stated nah my right as a fan...I could change my mind after I see some plan take effect. At that point all I had was the names of Banner n Lombardi working together. That is the difference between you n I. I kept an open mind...you closed yours at that point n never viewed any other option than your initial point of view. I instead viewed the Hire of Chud, Norv n Horton n investigated n really liked the plan.

I saw several coaches kept here not a complete purge.

I saw no vast sweep of a foundation of players released - I do credit Heckert for a lot of that as we did not build our team with 2nd tier FA that fit the system. So our foundation for the first time was made up of Young drafted n UDFA players. I credit the Banner/Lombardi for recognizing this n keeping the vast majority of that foundation here.

I saw a distinct plan given to us prior to the the FA market that we were only going to go for a couple of key signings and we were going to balance our excess of Cap space between this year n 2014. Then we stuck to that plan.

I saw a draft that was void of the 2nd round n nothing to do with Banner/Lombardi but benefiting the team with Gordon in 2012 supplemental. We cannot view the quality until we look back. Mingo seems to be the real deal. I loved what I saw from McFadden from tape. The rest no NFL team expects any Impact from the 4-7 rounds outside of Special Teams.

I was very apprehensive of Banner cause of testimony from the majority of the board n tid bits presented in selective quotes, etc. But outside of Visual squinting n nose scrunching that makes Banner look devious. His words did not depict this terrible person I was reading about. Actually he seem very sound in his thinking process and unexpectedly honest.

Lombardi has been a hard worker that never was strong enough to evoke his power. So although I did not like him mostly from his TV Analyzing especially criticizing the Browns. I put my perceived value aside n waited to see how the duo of Banner/Lombardi will work.

So far as I mentioned not that much data but I have been pleasantly pleased with the direction n investment/moves made. Not all to my specific choices but reviewing their decisions n have liked what I see. If you do not you have not remotely proven any point - just that you DISLIKE them n DISTRUST them ergo it all BAD????

Well thats all I have to say. I'll give you the last word. I don't expect you to make any concessions. I will not be redundant posting again on this thread to you on this subject. So don't think you made a point and I'm ducking you

As always I'm looking forward to any football discussion I know you will not take this personal.

and JMHO

lol no fate was sealed when they went with a vertical offense. I'm a big fan of thad but his long ball is a bit wobbly

Thought this was interesting.. http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&action=blog&r=17&post_id=18341

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But Banner also heard glowing reports of Hoyer from three candidates interviewed for the position eventually given to Rob Chudzinski.

Coaches Ray Horton, Ken Whisenhunt and Bill O’Brien each said in interviews they would bring Hoyer to Cleveland if they got the job. They considered Hoyer a viable competitor for a starting job, and a solid NFL backup at the very least.

I like that they are clear on what his role is and it would be nice finding a gem that needs a little more polishing.

People who think the FO is evil because of how we deal with a 3rd string QB are just crazy IMHO. I really was a BIG fan of Thad because of how FAST he knew where to put the ball. It was such a HUGE difference compared to Weeden. Still Thad was NOT very good at throwing it deep. His spiral was loose and wobbly from where he was forcing it further than he had the ability to accurately throw it. He was never going to be a part of this offense. Nor should he be.

Still you find thad a fast paced WCO system that stretches the ball wide instead of deep and he could beat anyone out IMHO.

Interesting. It's something when a violent and attacking d-coordinator pimps a QB lol!

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Thought this was interesting.. http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&action=blog&r=17&post_id=18341

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But Banner also heard glowing reports of Hoyer from three candidates interviewed for the position eventually given to Rob Chudzinski.

Coaches Ray Horton, Ken Whisenhunt and Bill O’Brien each said in interviews they would bring Hoyer to Cleveland if they got the job. They considered Hoyer a viable competitor for a starting job, and a solid NFL backup at the very least.

That is interesting. So were the comments by Weeden and Campbell concerning Hoyer's signing.

Weeden says he was "surprised."

Campbell says he was "not surprised." LOL

There will certainly be some upset posters if we actually have a true QB competition. Their infatuation w/Weeden strikes me as strange. Not as strange as the one most had w/Timid and Brady, but strange, nonetheless.

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mac...I know this might go on n on cause you will never state the words, MY BAD n make concessions in a discussion. But I will try to discuss some of this so that my buddy Vers does not get banned by answering you...l

EO...I did not know that you and vers were "identical twins"..

...completing the others sentences before they do...speaking on behalf of each other as if they are "one"..

EO...maybe you can tell your brother vers, Weeden was not named the Browns starter until July 1, 2012.

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That is the difference between you n I. I kept an open mind...you closed yours at that point n never viewed any other option than your initial point of view. I instead viewed the Hire of Chud, Norv n Horton n investigated n really liked the plan.

EO...concerning this front office...I'm not easily swayed and am not quick to declare someone or something a success at what they do until they actually "do" something that is measurable.

Any front office can give up draft picks in the draft and doing so does not prove that this front office is superior than the other 31 front offices. Simply making a very few draft picks does not mean this front office had a successful draft or that they are good at evaluating talent.

How Banner and Lombardi's draft picks perform on the field during the season will be how I judge the performance of this front office...so for me, "the jury is still out"...

On the other hand...you, "being different"...are happy with this draft and ready to declare Banner and Lombardi great talent evaluators. I would say, one major difference between you and I...it appears that I'm a little harder to impress than you are. I prefer waiting to see Banner and Lombardi's draft picks produce something on the field...something that is measurable...before giving any credit to this front office for their 2013 draft.

Now if you want to find fault in the way I judge this front office, so be it...but I do believe I'm being fair !

Going into the 2013 draft...the defensive backfield was a major concern and I believe this front office failed to fully address those needs, putting a much lower priority on the defensive backfield needs.

This defensive backfield lacks depth and the starting talent at RC and FS is questionable or untested. In the event of injuries, the lack of quality depth could come back to bite the front office in the rear.

As for the coaching staff...they look good on paper...and while you are satisfied and impressed by that alone, I'm going to hold my judgement until I see the product produce on the field.

A good coach must be able to "teach" the game as it relates to their area of expertise...and a good coach must be able to "develop" the talent he has to work with. The best way to evaluate those coaching areas is to see how their players produce on the field, IMO.

I'm going to wait to see if the coaches on this staff can actually coach, before I declare them a good coaching hire. Folks need to remember, the front office went after Chip Kelly first and he stood Banner and Haslam up at the scheduled second meeting.

Then it was reported that Banner went after Ken Whisenhunt who flew to Cleveland for his second interview, but the deal fell through over the issue of how much control Banner would have over the hiring of the coaching staff.

Finally, after two failed attempts at hiring a HC, Banner hired Chudzinski, who is a rookie at the position. I'm OK with the hire of Chud, especially with the addition of Norv Turner, who is experienced as a HC and will be there for Chud to lean on when necessary.

Regardless of who was hired to coach, I prefer to wait until I see what each coach produces, before judging them. Can these coaches take raw talent and develop them...teach them...mold them into a productive unit.

I think the real difference between you and I...I have to see what is actually produced and evaluate the product on the field before passing judgement on the value of their work.

I could not help but notice you steered clear of the Banner's history in Philly.

In Philly, Banner created a lot of problems within the franchise that went all the way to the "locker room". There "was" a power struggle between Joe Banner and Andy Reid, over who would control the 53 man roster. Joe Banner's ego was not satisfied with control over the financial side of the franchise and figured out a way to "take away" some of Reid's control over the roster.

It was reported that Banner used (or misused) his power over contract negotiations in an attempt to get around Reid's control of the roster. Banner would target players whose contracts were ready to be renegotiated, offering low ball contracts to those players Banner did not want on the roster.

I find that little nugget from Banner's past, "borderline nuts"...

I have a very hard time trusting someone (Banner), who would go to such an extreme, just to feed his ego. After being fired, Banner commented on a need for him to change, specifically noting his negotiating tactics while in Philly...but those were just words to give the impression that Banner intended to change. I see nothing (so far) that indicates Banner has any intention of changing. If anything, Banner appears to be emboldened by the near total control and power Haslam handed over him...the power he now holds over the heads of everyone in the franchise.

Banner loves to rule over those who work for him...and he does so via "power and pressure". In a Feb article, Tony Grossi wrote the following..."He loves being under pressure. He loves the pressure of high-stakes negotiations. He loves putting his people under pressure. His workplace is filled with pressure. People who work for him feel it."

But now Banner is the one in total control and he "is not" under pressure, but has the freedom to use his "power and pressure" tactics...unchecked. Banner became the most hated man in Philly for good reason...the most hated by the players and most likely, the coaching staff. Banner did not know how to control his power, in Philly and I don't have any confidence that he will even try to control himself in Cleveland.

We have already seen two examples of Banner's use of power...the first, going 0-2 on coaching hires, then spinning it like he didn't have anything to do with those situations going south. I tried to put myself in the shoes of Chip Kelly and Ken Whisenhunt and the first question I asked myself was...would you want to work under Joe Banner?

I'm ok with Chud as our HC but I also understand, he is what Joe Banner wanted...someone so beholding to Banner for being hired as a HC that he will allow himself to be controlled by Joe Banner.

...the second example was the Browns draft. Helping the Steelers land the guy they wanted then spinning it like there is nothing wrong with it...again "nuts". We needed those draft picks to help shore up our weak secondary and add depth...and again, Banner tried to spin that into a positive move.

I have my reasons for not supporting Joe Banner and they all come down to Banner's ability to change. I fear that Joe Banner will do to the Browns, exactly what he did to the Eagles organization...tear the Browns apart from the inside out.

I keep telling myself, how hard can it be to complete the last two years of the rebuild that was started in 2010? Can one man screw up what took 3 yrs to build?...

jmho...mac

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I have my reasons for not supporting Joe Banner and they all come down to Banner's ability to change. I fear that Joe Banner will do to the Browns, exactly what he did to the Eagles organization...tear the Browns apart from the inside out.

So on one hand you are going to reserve judgment until you see how the product on the field performs, but on the other hand you aren't going to support Banner and fear he tears the team apart...even though that hasn't happened.

Got it.

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How Banner and Lombardi's draft picks perform on the field during the season will be how I judge the performance of this front office...so for me, "the jury is still out".

I won't pick your post apart as I promised to give you the last word...I'll let others.

btw - I quoted the above statement cause its a very Fair attitude. If only your posts would exude that sentiment.

One other thing...I see you only recognize DRAFT PICKS.
a. Do you include Gordon? cause they had no 2nd round pick to be judge on.
b. More important than (a.) will you not include their FA investments as part of that judging? Coaches? Or do you just single out the draft (cause we know they only had Mingo as an impact pick n a McFadden 3rd rounder.) Will you wait till we add what we will get in 2014 due to the traded picks? You know...will you truly be FAIR

Please don't claim my position. I was very skeptical - I saw the hiring of Chud, Norv n Horton. Very impressed. I saw the foundation of drafted players being made part of the new regime...not some vast Turnover we have seen in the past where 80% are gone within two seasons. I saw a very sound FA participation with our FO n they actually told us what they would do prior to the FA market opening n kept to it. I saw a complimentary draft n a recognition of a pretty poor draft class. We got our guy...we got our CB 2 rounds later w/our next pick. Late round additions with low risk n high reward guys.

Will it all work? Not my opinion stated - I agree with you all that has to seen to come. But what I have stated as my opinion (NOT WHAT YOU STATE IS MY OPINION) is I LIKE THE PLAN...I had nothing I was very skeptical...now I see the PLAN enfolding - I LIKE IT! Thats it in a nutshell. I am very impressed so far. Yes, we have to see it on the field. Now question is does that mean you give this NEW REGIME ONE SEASON? I do expect some results by season 2. I don't think its WISE AT ALL to give them ONE SEASON...or else.

JMHO

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I think the real difference between you and I...I have to see what is actually produced and evaluate the product on the field before passing judgement on the value of their work.

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This defensive backfield lacks depth and the starting talent at RC and FS is questionable or untested. In the event of injuries, the lack of quality depth could come back to bite the front office in the rear.

Season has not started there is still time to upgrade. Many good players are found after the last cuts.

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As for the coaching staff...they look good on paper...and while you are satisfied and impressed by that alone, I'm going to hold my judgement until I see the product produce on the field.

A good coach must be able to "teach" the game as it relates to their area of expertise...and a good coach must be able to "develop" the talent he has to work with. The best way to evaluate those coaching areas is to see how their players produce on the field, IMO.

You did state it is your opinion, but all have proven at one time or another to be successful. With one exception, Chud has not proven to be a winning head coach. To say the other coaches are not good until they make Cleveland a winner is a little odd.

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I'm going to wait to see if the coaches on this staff can actually coach, before I declare them a good coaching hire. Folks need to remember, the front office went after Chip Kelly first and he stood Banner and Haslam up at the scheduled second meeting.

Then it was reported that Banner went after Ken Whisenhunt who flew to Cleveland for his second interview, but the deal fell through over the issue of how much control Banner would have over the hiring of the coaching staff.

Failed? First, you have any proof Haslam/Banner did or did not walk away form Kelly? Several media reports contradicted. Some stated Kelly kept Haslam/Banner waiting while others reported Haslam/Banner flew home. It was later found out many of the reports during the Haslam/Banner interviews were false. To lazy to look up and could be wroung, I thought the Whisenhunt interview never took place.

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Finally, after two failed attempts at hiring a HC, Banner hired Chudzinski, who is a rookie at the position. I'm OK with the hire of Chud, especially with the addition of Norv Turner, who is experienced as a HC and will be there for Chud to lean on when necessary.

Failed attempts? Did they make Kelly an offer and he refused? Or, since they did not make Kelly an offer, Haslam/Banner failed? Whisenhunt was made an offer too?

Wait a minute! Hiring of Turner is ok? I thought you stated above the jury is still out until these coaches prove themselves?

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Regardless of who was hired to coach, I prefer to wait until I see what each coach produces, before judging them. Can these coaches take raw talent and develop them...teach them...mold them into a productive unit.

I'm confused.

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I could not help but notice you steered clear of the Banner's history in Philly.

In Philly, Banner created a lot of problems within the franchise that went all the way to the "locker room". There "was" a power struggle between Joe Banner and Andy Reid, over who would control the 53 man roster. Joe Banner's ego was not satisfied with control over the financial side of the franchise and figured out a way to "take away" some of Reid's control over the roster.

It was reported that Banner used (or misused) his power over contract negotiations in an attempt to get around Reid's control of the roster. Banner would target players whose contracts were ready to be renegotiated, offering low ball contracts to those players Banner did not want on the roster.

I find that little nugget from Banner's past, "borderline nuts"...

I have a very hard time trusting someone (Banner), who would go to such an extreme, just to feed his ego. After being fired, Banner commented on a need for him to change, specifically noting his negotiating tactics while in Philly...but those were just words to give the impression that Banner intended to change. I see nothing (so far) that indicates Banner has any intention of changing. If anything, Banner appears to be emboldened by the near total control and power Haslam handed over him...the power he now holds over the heads of everyone in the franchise.

Wow, you sure are religious follower of the media . Whatever is printed on the internet must be true.

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Banner loves to rule over those who work for him...and he does so via "power and pressure". In a Feb article, Tony Grossi wrote the following..."He loves being under pressure. He loves the pressure of high-stakes negotiations. He loves putting his people under pressure. His workplace is filled with pressure. People who work for him feel it."

But now Banner is the one in total control and he "is not" under pressure, but has the freedom to use his "power and pressure" tactics...unchecked. Banner became the most hated man in Philly for good reason...the most hated by the players and most likely, the coaching staff. Banner did not know how to control his power, in Philly and I don't have any confidence that he will even try to control himself in Cleveland.

Grossi? Really? Please don't quote Mary Kay too!

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We have already seen two examples of Banner's use of power...the first, going 0-2 on coaching hires, then spinning it like he didn't have anything to do with those situations going south. I tried to put myself in the shoes of Chip Kelly and Ken Whisenhunt and the first question I asked myself was...would you want to work under Joe Banner?

Again Media reported from sources! 0-2? Any credible quotes Kelly and/or Weisenhunt were made offers and turned down? You could be right. I never seen or heard.

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...the second example was the Browns draft. Helping the Steelers land the guy they wanted then spinning it like there is nothing wrong with it...again "nuts". We needed those draft picks to help shore up our weak secondary and add depth...and again, Banner tried to spin that into a positive move.

Here we go again!! Helping Steelers giving away a fourth round draft pick! Really? You may want to go back and look at probabilities of a fourth rounder becoming a starter in the NFL compared to the probabilities of third rounder. You'll be shocked. I know...I know...Grossi said!!!

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I have my reasons for not supporting Joe Banner and they all come down to Banner's ability to change. I fear that Joe Banner will do to the Browns, exactly what he did to the Eagles organization...tear the Browns apart from the inside out.

So on one hand you are going to reserve judgment until you see how the product on the field performs, but on the other hand you aren't going to support Banner and fear he tears the team apart...even though that hasn't happened.

Got it.

or to put it another way... in 1997 Banner became Executive VP of the Eagles... during the next 16 years, the Eagles had 11 seasons at .500 or better... 8 double digit win seasons... 9 trips to the playoffs... several NFC conference championship game appearances... 1 super bowl appearance... and all Banner gets credit for is tearing the team apart in the end.

And if that's not bad enough, the evil bastage also reads to elementary school kids and visits ill kids in the hospital.. what a POS...

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I have my reasons for not supporting Joe Banner and they all come down to Banner's ability to change. I fear that Joe Banner will do to the Browns, exactly what he did to the Eagles organization...tear the Browns apart from the inside out.

So on one hand you are going to reserve judgment until you see how the product on the field performs, but on the other hand you aren't going to support Banner and fear he tears the team apart...even though that hasn't happened.

Got it.

peen...yea..that is exactly what I mean !

You actually believe I should give Banner credit and support him because he has not torn the team apart...yet?

Now that is funny...

You say all of that stuff, mac..........yet, you blindly supported Junior, The Big Show, and Heckert. They didn't win squat. Seems very hypocritical.

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We have already seen two examples of Banner's use of power...the first, going 0-2 on coaching hires

Sorry to break my promise but I just couldn't let this one go.

0-2 we have no FACTS that either one of those HC candidates were our Guy n we got turned down. We have BOZOS starving for news in a dead zone claiming this is going to happen (Browns hiring) cause it seems to be some sort of Bragging rights for these BOZOS to tweet it first. So if a coach farts the reporter claims to smell the gasses emitting from a Cleveland restaurant so therefore they are our First choice.

Wisenhunt never seemed to be in the hunt. Kelly we did our due diligence...it was a weird situation.

But why is this a ZERO who says we got to the final WE WANT YOU stages n were turned down. Just cause we interviewed a guy (and the media made a big thing about it) who says we wanted that guy? Personally I like Chud so much I consider those two NONE hires as Win bracket for us not a loss

How bout REALITY man for a guy who won't ASSESS till you see it on the field you sure as heck declare a total NONE FACT as a fact n failure. Here is the REALITY.

In my eyes Banner is 1-0 in his HC hirings. 1999 he hired Andy Reid somebody the media didn't like and praised at all when they did make the hire. The reality is Banner had the opportunity to HIRE ONE HC n hit a homerun. Now we got Chud with a very similar background of experience being hired. The coincidence of experience to me is no experience. If I had to guess like you are GUESSING cause you don't have one fact to support your Claim. But if I had to guess he checked into a top College coach looking to make the jump...wait no not looking to make the jump...wait yes looking to make the jump. We LOOKED INTO IT. We looked at about 5-6 other candidates that they MEDIA took to put Wisenhunt out in the lead due to the Steeler background n the reports of Haslam wanting to go the Steeler way. So the super sleuth's in BOZO style were like AHA Wisenhunt must be him n wanted to be the first to call it. So reported it as in - "Yeah Thats the Ticket" like that lying routine seen on SNL.

But if you look at Banner's one hire Andy Reid...it looks like Chud had many similarities and that is where his search ended! Just a guess but it has a heck of a lot more logic than - I READ IT FROM BOZOS

0-2??? Sorry not even close. Stay true to your REALITY WAIT n SEE STUFF not a statement of 0-2 failure with BOZO rumor stuff. But ignore the REALITY of 1-0 his hiring of Andy Reid.

JMHO but with a lot more logic then claiming BOZO stuff as FACTS.

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even if somehow it was Whisenhunt turning us down that got us Chud/Norv/Horton (and I don't think it was), then I'm very happy it happened. Having 2 experienced successful co-ordinators is an extremely good thing and I am glad that Chud didn't have the ego to try to keep the offensive coaching staff younger so he could run it.

as for Chip Kelly, I loved the idea of getting the next great innovator as a Browns coach. he may change the way the NFL does things. or he may flop horrendously. it will be an extremely interesting experiment and I suspect most will be watching the Eagles closely.

however, from his comments, it appears pretty obvious that Philly was his desired destination (he and Lurie saying it was always between Oregon and Philly in comments afterwards). and, I like the gumption of our FO to give a deadline and stick to it. leaving Arizona when they saw he wasn't committed to the Browns.

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as for Chip Kelly, I loved the idea of getting the next great innovator as a Browns coach. he may change the way the NFL does things. or he may flop horrendously. it will be an extremely interesting experiment and I suspect most will be watching the Eagles closely.

That's a very astute observation.

I agree totally w/your observation.

In regards to whether or not he turned us down or we moved on----I really don't know what happened w/Kelly. Hard to say w/any certainty. It's not like we have never been turned down before. LOL

yeah, impossible to know exactly how things went down but it seems to be a little bit of both. regardless, we didn't just sit on our hands, we went out and found a solid coaching staff to build (partially due to the luck that the Bidwell's didn't hire Horton, but we will take what we can get).

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to support:

even if somehow it was Whisenhunt turning us down that got us Chud/Norv/Horton (and I don't think it was), then I'm very happy it happened. Having 2 experienced successful co-ordinators is an extremely good thing and I am glad that Chud didn't have the ego to try to keep the offensive coaching staff younger so he could run it.

as for Chip Kelly, I loved the idea of getting the next great innovator as a Browns coach. he may change the way the NFL does things. or he may flop horrendously. it will be an extremely interesting experiment and I suspect most will be watching the Eagles closely.

however, from his comments, it appears pretty obvious that Philly was his desired destination (he and Lurie saying it was always between Oregon and Philly in comments afterwards). and, I like the gumption of our FO to give a deadline and stick to it. leaving Arizona when they saw he wasn't committed to the Browns.

I still think Chip Kelly is going to be a great head coach in the NFL. It's funny because back when we were having these discussions, I said that and I rarely even mentioned Oregon's offense. Granted, teams like Seattle, San Fran, Washington etc. worked in the zone read to great effect this past year, but I liked the guy more for his general intelligence, streamlining practices and other things, his close to ideal approach to 4th downs and other situations, and those sorts of things. You can even see some of that taking shape in Philly, with nutritional smoothies optimized for each individual player. If those help players perform even 1% better than greasy breakfast sandwiches, it is worth the investment to do that *1000. It is those sorts of things that outside the box thinkers think of, and the Pat Shurmurs of the world don't.

Now I don't know why Chip Kelly isn't the coach of the Browns. I read all of the reports. He isn't the coach but I respect the fact that Joe Banner and co. singled him out as someone who could potentially coach this team. That is about one of oh... say 10 significant things that this regime has done that I agree with that I don't think previous regimes would have done.

FWIW, I also think very highly of Chud for some of the same reasons that I thought highly of Chip. Chud is an intelligent, up and coming, innovative thinker. Players respect him-- we all saw that when he was the coordinator here about 5 years ago The coordinators he brought with him are top notch. I'm actually very pleased with how things turned out.