Browns assemble largest collection of older players in expansion era

THE BROWN AND GRAY
Look closely as you inspect the Browns’ new colors.
Notice the tinge of gray?
The first four signings of the free agency period leave the Browns with the oldest cluster of key players they will have taken into an expansion-era season.
Add that foursome to the four pricey players signed in the 2012 and 2013 free agency roundups and this is what you have:
• Defensive lineman Randy Starks has played in 171 NFL games, most on the Browns’ pre-draft roster
• Cornerback Tramon Williams has started 79 of a possible 80 games for the Packers in the last five years. He signed with the Browns Monday on his 32nd birthday.
• Quarterback Josh McCown turns 36 in July.
• Wideout Brian Hartline turns 29 during the 2015 season
• Inside linebacker Karlos Dansby turns 34 during the season.
• Strong safety Donte Whitner turns 30 in July.
• Outside linebacker Paul Kruger will turn 30 shortly after the Super Bowl.
• Defensive lineman Desmond Bryant turns 30 during the season.
ANOTHER YEAR OLDER
In addition to this cast, another cluster of players is another year older.
Right guard John Greco turns 30 next week.
Tight end Gary Barnidge turns 30 in September.
Center Alex Mack turns 30 in November.
Left tackle Joe Thomas turns 31 in December, when tight end Jim Dray turns 29.
Wideout Andrew Hawkins turns 30 a month after the next Super Bowl.
That’s more than a dozen key players in the 30ish range, which is a bunch for any team in this day and age.
We heard frequently in 2014 that the Browns were a young team. The point was exaggerated at times then. It shouldn’t even be attempted now.
Since 1999, the Browns have speckled rosters with some veterans, a few older than anyone listed above. Never have they collected as many geezers as they have now.
And, yes, in a stretch of time when 20-somethings Jason Worilds, Jake Locker and Chris Borland (he’s only 24) announced retirements, geezers is a fair term.
On the other hand, so much of what happens with the Browns in 2015 could come down to a quarterback who will turn 23 shortly before Christmas.
Perhaps it will help Johnny Manziel to be surrounded by so many old guys.
• • •

http://www.cantonrep.com/article/20150317/BLOGS/150319323/10256

We haven't cleaned the cupboard in several regimes. Starting over with players.

Banner was wiping out anything over 30 we had to bring in veterans.

Got to get youths to take over for the aged.

Hopefully McCown won't be with us long.
jmho

j/c

It just seems like we have no direction or consistent plan since 99 ... we're like all over the place randomly.

Obviously most of it has to do with the leadership at the top and inconsistency with coaching/systems ... but it's frustrating

I think Joe Banner was a very smart and savvy business man, but the idea that football players are through at the age of 30 is one of the dumbest things ever. It is needlessly self-limiting to disqualify a large group of viable talent based on something as arbitrary as age. We have all seen football players perform at extremely high levels well into their 30's. To make the age of 30 such a bright line in evaluating talent is the epitome of "foolish consistency", and as the saying goes, "foolish consistencies are the hobgoblins of little minds" (Ralph Waldo Emerson).

j/c:

I found these rather comical:





So what the writer is REALLY saying is that they're 29 all season long but needed to add a couple other '30 yr olds' someway, somehow to make it look more impactful?

How many 30 somethings are on the Steelers, Ravens, Broncos, Patriots, etc.? and they seem to be pretty good. LOL I don't care if the whole roster is 40 years old if they can play and win that's all that matters. Seems like people want to bash the Browns regardless of how they try and build a competitive roster.

Good post IMO. Writer needed to exaggerate the angle. Dumb notion. Veteran presence has no place in the club. No vets must mean much stronger and better team?
How about dumber. Having a few proven vets helps your future IMO.

I concede we seem late to the table on FA for "names" so far. We may have overpaid, maybe badly. We do need a blockbuster draft this year if we can.

jc...


I'm a firm believer that veteran leadership is a good thing to have on your team...good for setting an example on field/in the locker room and off the field.

In the Browns case, today we have veterans to help fill our needs until younger guys can take over. The Browns 5yr rebuilding (via the draft) plan has been started and stopped too many times due to management/coaching turnover.

I believe the Browns are continuing to rebuild the roster via the draft...hopefully Pettine will be with the Browns long enough to get it done.

I bet they draft a bunch of old guys with those 10 picks, too. O_o

Yeah exactly, honestly, I think the entire article is just... stupid. With all the young talent, what wrong is there having veterans? Dansby, 34,say whatever you want - if we cut him today, there would be a tidal wave of interested teams.

It isn't like we signed a bunch of David Bowens, Eric Barton and Ted Washington like players!

10 draft picks this year.

At least 11 next year (via the NFL compensatory picks).

I think Ray Farmer knows that this team needs young players to build long term success.

It is a good thing though having a mixture of young players and veterans.

Nothing to see here. Move along...Move along....

Meh. Time marches on.

Age is meaningless if they can still play. It is a WAY overplayed card around here.

Yes it is; in fact it's essential...for all the obvious reasons.

for most athletes other than running backs 27-32 is their best years, wisdom far outweighs any loss of perceived athleticism. this is also why Vers was so against letting guys like Skrine walk, he is just now starting to get into the frame where they are at their best. It is why joe banner wanted guys entering their 2nd contract. We havent really deviated from it that much however. the guys we have brought in at the end of that time frame are getting rental contracts.

Reminds me of many years ago when the Jets had a trio of short WRs..

During the pregame they had a bit about them, they listed two of them at 5'10 or so.. then the third one at 5'12"...

I was like.. wait.. what..

Alright, let's see if it helps!

Does this help them beat the Steelers, Ravens, and Bengals?

Today's 30+ is yesteryears 25+

Age is meaningless? Really? Alright, lets put that to the test. Lets call up Brett Favre and drag him out of retirement. He's not that much older than McCown and he'd probably win more games this season.

Old is awesome. Lets try to make the Browns the oldest team in the NFL. If a player is under 30, we don't want them. Hoefully, Farmer will trade our picks for old guys. lmmfao

By the way... found this interesting...

"Orange and Brown Rpt ‏@TheOBR 5m5 minutes ago

Browns #1 according to spotrac with $35,247,831 of cap space"

I bet we enter the season with at least 20 million unspent. If not more. The Browns are cheap. The value cap sapce over talent.

Well great. Then there's no reason we shouldn't make a playoff run this year. And if we don't then Farmer and Pettine go buh bye....

I really hope you don't actually believe the crap that you constantly spew out..

Of course he doesn't but Spirit uses hyper boil to drive his points home, he always has. He is the guy that can piss you off to the point that you want to reach thru the monitor and strangle him. He is also a great fan who Loves the Browns and I have the utmost respect for Spirit he is a good dude who makes great points at times.

Some of you have adopted the opinion that Spirit is a troll ( not accusing you guy) and NOTHING could be further from the truth. Spirit is a great fan he just sees things differently and I love to debate him.

The folks that know me know I am down on this regime they have huge problems within their ranks and it starts with Haslam and really ends with Haslam as well. But since he is the owner he gets to FIU and to date he has done just that.

My one hope for this regime is that Haslam has seen the errors of his ways and now is fully on board with getting involved when he needs to and otherwise stays out of the football part of things. last off season he fired Chud because he didn't like the fact that Chud didn't hold players accountable and I was down with that because its important for a team like the Browns to start from that position, but somewhere along the way Haslam lost his way and started to allow players to be disruptive to the team. He adopted players like Gordon and JF and allowed them to get away with things other players weren't allowed to do. At the end of the season he finally recognized the errors of his ways and handed out suspensions.

Having said all that my point to Spirit would be this. Yes age is a factor but I agree with not going after the top guys in FA, I nearly always do but my reason are these and echo a long ago coach we had here in Cleveland. Character guys in the locker room is imperative if this team is to get out of the basement regardless of talent or age and I think they (management) realizes this simple truth. This team at this juncture can't absorb head cases.

When you set the president of not holding players accountable and you have a huge lack of veteran leadership to set these young guys up to be successful you fail. So while I agree its better to be younger its also important to have a balance between youth and veterans. Perhaps these guys went to far, but then again its far more important to set a tone so to speak at this juncture and build from there, so I agree with what their doing here in that respect as it applies to FA.

Will get younger come draft time and the veterans will set the tone and the competition for the youth. I see it as a positive mix for now.

JMHO

Yup.

And yesteryear's orange is today's .... uh, orange.

Alright, lets put that to the test. Lets call up Brett Favre and drag him out of retirement. He's not that much older than McCown

Gee now there is a compelling argument...you convinced me... lol smh

Man are you miserable. McCown - Hoyer more for the locker room. Hartline...yeah real old - the definition of WR.
Williams CB - old yeah so we rented him for 2 seasons basically again to help mentor young CBs as his technique is excellent he also has a couple of years of playing time.

Starks...yeah old and is a 2 down player you misery guys all you can say is 32nd in run D...here is a move to help that low cost 2 years. Again good to lead in camp.
Last year Dansby...what you didn't like his play...man up have the balls to say he sucked and it was a mistake. You won't. Wittner played well and didn't show any sign of retirement.

This team was void of over 30 guys from the Banner purge. We were void of leadership and everyone of the elders have game still in them and won't be here in 2 years...but hopefully the youth will learn from the Vets and become leaders the way they learned from some LEADERS.

Frankly Spirit...I think you are full of crap.

jmho

I agree with a lot of takes. I don't mind adding some age. On the other hand, we can't get carried away. At this point I don't think we are.

This is free agency. Everybody we can sign is going to have some age on them. We just haven't signed the high dollar guys headed in to their prime and opted for the guys on the back side of their career. That's OK since we are looking for help this year. Maybe next.

We have 10 picks next month plus UDFA. By the time all the picks are made and the cuts come down, we probably keep 5-6 players. They are all going to be 22-24 years old. And who knows, maybe some of the players we just signed will end up backing up some of them?

This team was still young enough that it didn't hurt to add a little more veteran leadership

just a note this article was written by a guy who looks like he is 70.

j/c

As of right now we have the least amount of 30 or older players in our division.

We currently have 6
Balt. = 7
Cincy = 10
Pitt. = 10

Did you include the 29yr and 3/4 people?

Nope, just who were currently 30 or more. I didn't include people who will be 30 2 years from now like this writer did either.

This is a non issue. 30 year old players are not over the hill and the guys we just signed will be replaced with younger players in 2-3 years. Besides, you need some older players to help mentor the young guys.

coaching staff doesnt count!!!!

I took a look at the Bills and the Browns CURRENT Rosters, the off season one. I added Clay for Buffalo and McKnown and Bowe for Cleveland. I also subtracted Thigpen (sine I wasn't sure if he had a contract still) and Gordon since he wont play....

The Bills AVERAGE age as of TODAY was a little over 27 years old.
The Browns AVERAGE AGE was still around 24/25....

Age can hurt a team, especially too much of it... However, too much youth can as well. It is nice to see a good mix.

yea. all those undrafted rookie free agents sure do take the age down. to bad our team is made up of people no team including us would draft.

You mean players undrafted like the guy you based your user name on the old board "paytheman"?

Joshua "Josh" Cribbs the Cleveland Browns as an undrafted free agent in 2005"

yea. the blind squirrel find a nut thing. amazing how our last 3 gm find so many nuts and no other gm can. even more amazing is how all our great gm have gone on to bigger and better things. pfft

So why do you stick around if they are so bad? Maybe you can follow their lead and go on to bigger better things!

You

Are

A

Troll

OR Tashaun Gipson or K'Wuan Williams or Isiah Crowell or Craig Robertson.

All legit players. Maybe not all superstars but have outperformed other guys that can't crack a roster anywhere.

EVERY GM has hits and misses. Its just a matter of whether you hit more than you miss and can do it a few years in a row.

old age?

you

are

a sucker.

yea. i saw how every one were fighting for that 2nd round tender on Gipson. and all those teams fighting for Craig Robertson. pfft

So old like the Browns players you are complaining about?
Maybe it's time to get rid of you for a younger fan!

glad you like getting rid of players just coming into there prime for more money on old players on the downward side. obviously you think its a great idea. sit back and enjoy pfft

I don't care if we had a team full of players that require Depends, I just want this freakin team to finally start winning something anything!

Problem is new or old this is a patchwork team that is not built for winning, but all the homers are convinced things are gonna be different.

I've come the conclusion even if the Browns win a Super Bowl you'll find something to rag on the FO over.

and thats your answer about "glad you like getting rid of players just coming into there prime for more money on old players on the downward side. obviously you think its a great idea. "

stay in the smackshack and dont worry about real football. pfft

Well I can't answer that question until I see them play for the Browns ask me at the end of the next season when there is something solid to base my answer on other than speculation.

how about i ask you 3 years from now lmao.

OK if your Oldheimer's let's you remember in 3 years.

So you would not want Peyton Manning, Tom Brady or Darrelle Revis on the Browns because of their age?

wow. did we sign that kind of talent? oh i get it.you think mccown, and Tramon Williams are in the same talent as Manning and Revis. lmao. stay in the smack shack lol

Why do you feel the need to MAKE THINGS UP?

Please show where I posted that...now set down the alcohol and move away from the keyboard.

Why do you guyys feed this guy?


He obviously has a good number of posts, but I don't remember him. I guess as some have said, he is one of the smack shack guys. I never go there, so I wouldn't know.

why else would you bring up those players except for comparison?

Angry Elf... lol

Bad day PB? How can you diss on Gipson - kid made the Pro Bowl. Gabriel...excellent pick up. Williams...We actually have added some worth while players and not all from early rounds. I know I know we had missed of late...but nobody got what we got from the rest. I thought a pretty good rookies class we added last year. Still hope on the two first rounders.

Again I don't see all this woah... 7 wins from the first year of this regime. Better than the last 6 seasons. We will continue to get better...we finally got something to keep here with Continuity...Only Shanny is gone...I say good riddance he wasn't about the Browns he was about Shanny!
jmho

well mr we have a strong young core eo. lets face it. we keep let players go that you and others think are great while they play with us but how many get good contracts when they leave? how much do the rest of the nfl think of our players. the only one we know of for sure is mack, the guy you said would be easy to replace with grecko lmao. ward? no great contract. the ones this year? very reasonable contracts.

sorry, you and others can babble about the udfa players we have until your blue in the face but the sad fact is these are players that 32 teams did not draft. there biggest assets are motivation and not raw physical talent. they are limited.

Just a word of wisdom....once a player is in camp, it doesn't matter how they got there.


My point is these undrafted players you seem to dismiss beat out some players who were drafted.

"So you would not want Peyton Manning, Tom Brady or Darrelle Revis on the Browns because of their age?

goes to show how bad our draft are. and again. you dont see these players we play going to do anything on any other team do you?

i would take any of the 3 but we did not bring that talent in. what part of that dont you understand? instead we let players that were coming into there prime for backup old players.

are you that stupid you dont understand that?

pb, I can't say I completely agree with you. We have gotten guys like Gipson and Cribbs via UDFA's.

But on the other hand, we do have some players that were UDFA's that either started or got playing time and contributed that beg to question.....

Are they really good? Would they be starters elsewhere? Or is that simply the best we have?

Sometimes I think we're just so weak at certain positions, that even UDFA's can come here and either play or even start because our talent at certain positions is so poor, not because they are so good, or even diamonds in the rough.

So to that extent, I really don't disagree with you.

The part I don't understand which of the players that the Browns have picked up this off seaon have played like back up old players for the Browns this season?

Which players that the Browns let walk played like pro bowlers for their new team this season?

I guess we will no longer be the youngest team

In a way I can agree with you. My point is once a person is in camp, their draft position doesn't really matter. In theory a 1st rounder should be the best player and the undrafted guy should be the worst. But, it doesn't work out that way. You always have guys like Brady who everybody passed up 5-6 times.

In the end, if you can get 2-3 good players per draft cycle, you are in good shape. It doesn't really matter how or where you got them.

As to your question: I can see Crowell playing for other teams.

JMO

When Mack wanted to leave...if he left what are we going to do Wallow in our pity. Greco was the option. If you notice when Mack went down...who went in to play Center...problem wasn't Greco playing center problem we had no depth for RG and it brought down the RT as well.

The skill set to play center is the least of all the OL position. Doesn't mean you don't need talent. The guys we had McQ (RG sucked) the other 2 Centers we picked up didn't have talent.

Mack is important but if we lose him next year we sit and cry...your option of choice or we move on and get one. I think a 4th round pick of that GaTech OG would be a great prospect to fit into Center.

You can't just take bits and pieces of something I write and try to infuse it as if I don't know what I'm talking about. I know my OL I know exactly what I'm talking about.

To benefit you PITY FEST you are claiming we are letting all our prospects get away. Of course now according you Ward was great...I was one of the few who liked him. We are not hurting at safety what is your point? Different regime didn't like the fact he was hurt I guess - but what does that have to do with Farmer n Pettine it wasn't there call. But we got Gipson who was a Pro Bowl FS and Whittner - we didn't lose any games cause of the Safety position - So outside of you having a Pity Party what is your point.

Skrine...I didn't like it at all again one who championed him throughout his time here. But I understood why he left. He was an INSIDE CB he wanted to test the FA market - He got silly money and signed - good for him. What can you do. Will we suffer Williams is a pretty darn good Inside CB his technique is actually better than Skrine - I think Skrine was a better Athlete and good against the run, not that you want your CB to be dominant against the Run!

Cameron? If he isn't a probable candidate for retirement it might bother me.

Yeah prospects worth something I champion - I'm a freaking fan of the team you find that odd...I know on this board we got geniuses who just find fault in all. I think I'm more in the norm. When they leave do I cry about it...no.

We never had players really good enough to be upset about. Now we are in a new Era for Browns fans. We got to make some tough decisions on players. Instead wallowing in your pity you should ask yourself. Is our WR position better than last year? Is our CB position better than last year. Is our DL better than last year.

As long as we are progressing and moving forward to a year two.

Now somebody put up facts that this entire thread is a piece of crap thread that you seem to champion. That we don't have over the hill props and I betcha if investigated properly probably not the largest collection of older players in expansion. But its just another article for the PITIFUL to champion and go around with the DOOM.

Yeah piss on me cause I champion our players, I'm the odd ball here.