If Bucs draft Winston, next move may be trading Glennon
ProFootballTalk.com Michael David Smith April 4, 2015
If the Buccaneers, as expected, take quarterback Jameis Winston with the first overall pick in the draft, where does that leave Mike Glennon?
It may leave him somewhere other than Tampa Bay.
Glennon, the 2013 third-round pick who has started 18 games in two seasons, will be available for any team that wants him after the Bucs draft Winston, according to Pat Yasinskas of ESPN.
Some team may want him. Although Glennon hasn’t been great in Tampa Bay, he has shown promise. His career stats — a 58.8 percent completion rate, 29 touchdowns and 15 interceptions — are respectable for a young quarterback.
Glennon was picked by former General Manager Mark Dominik and doesn’t fit the profile that current G.M. Jason Licht and coach Lovie Smith are looking for in their franchise quarterback. But that doesn’t mean Glennon has no future in the NFL. There may be some other team ready to acquire Glennon and give him a chance to prove he can be the starter, something he won’t have if the Bucs decide to make Winston their franchise quarterback.
might as well just see if manziel can pan out, so we know what we have. if he gets beat out by mccown, then hopefully he can do the job. if neither can, we atleast spent more than 2 games to evaluate a guy we spent a first round pick on-- and if they are truly as bad as many here believem we should be in much better position next draft to actually be able to get one of the top tier QBs, rather than a project guy like petty.
i say we just roll with what we have and hope whatever they saw in manziel is actually still obtainable.
It would have made more sense for the bucs to have kept Mccown to be the mentor. I don't see Glennon filling that role. I'd be for bringing him in, if the price is right.
I have no problem with trading for Glennon if it is only a 4th or 5th rd pick. He's no worse than what we have now and he has upside.
Exactly!!! I am tired of bringing in QB's that are "no worse than what we have now" If there no better then don't waste time, look for one that's better ... JMHO
He is better than what we have. In 19 games he has completed 58.8% of his passes for 6.5 YPC, has 29 TD, 15 Int, and a QB Rating of 83.7.
Here's Jon Gruden's scouting report on him ...
Gruden's scouting report on Mike Glennon
Pat Yasinskas ESPN.com September 25, 2013
With Wednesday's news that the Buccaneers are benching quarterback Josh Freeman in favor of Mike Glennon, it’s time for a scouting report on the rookie.
Let’s turn back to this Insider item I did with ESPN’s Jon Gruden during Gruden’s QB Camp in the spring. Gruden spent more than four hours with Glennon and, prior to that, spent a lot of time preparing for the session by watching college tape.
Let’s see some of Gruden’s thoughts on Glennon:
“When I worked with Glennon, I told him there are some things he did better than anyone else in college football last year,’’ Gruden said. “Specifically, he can flat-out drive the football. The guy can absolutely hum it. Glennon can throw the ball to the wide side of the field effortlessly. In college, with the wider hashmarks, when you throw the ball to the wide side of the field, it's a big-time throw. In fact, there are some programs that don't even attempt it -- they don't even bother asking a QB to attempt a wide-side throw down the field. That's not the case with Glennon.
“This guy can make some really difficult down-the-field throws. If you watch the camp session with Glennon, you'll see we went through a "Fox Two XY Hook." I coached that pattern for 18 years. I'm not sure I've ever seen a QB at any level throw it with the ease Glennon can. Brett Favre threw a certain second-reaction post, by my count, about four times in his career. I saw Glennon throw it four times last season.
Gruden also gave a flattering answer when asked to compare Glennon to a current NFL quarterback.
“If you want a recent comparison, I don't think the similarities to Joe Flacco are unfair,’’ Gruden said. “They're both 6-foot-6, they both have really nice throwing motions and they both have a nice, compact stroke that just looks effortless. If you watch end-zone film of Flacco, there are times when you go, 'Wow!' when he snaps one off. I found myself saying the same with Glennon a few times."
Strengths: Progress as a passer began to show in the final three games of the year, connecting on 65 percent of his throws for 274 yards a game, 11 touchdowns and just two picks in wins over Clemson, Maryland and Louisville in the Belk Bowl. Uses his height to see receivers running open in the short and medium ranges, making accurate throws to lead them into open areas after the catch. His long legs don’t prevent him from running a pro-style attack, as he seems able to work from under center and run bootlegs. Arm strength is certainly sufficient to distribute the ball all over the field, and he can place it between defenders over the middle when his target sits down in zones.
Weaknesses: His average foot quickness will cause him issues trying to avoid defenders in a collapsing pocket. Tends to retreat instead of stepping up to deliver in the face of pressure -- though his arm gives him a chance to get the ball out of bounds or find an open target while still backpedalling. And while he has the arm and tight spiral to threaten defenses with the deep ball, his inconsistent accuracy and reading of coverages keep him from being efficient in the vertical game.
Adam Caplan at ESPN thinks he can be had for a 3rd round pick, according to his Twitter account from late February. To be fair, that was before we signed McCown (although I think he had been released already), so not sure the same price tag applies. Hell, we'll prolly have to use at least a 3rd if we want Bryce Petty - why not use it on a 25 year old that has started 19 games already?
He's young so reading coverages is something he can learn in time. For a 4th rd pick he could be worth a shot even if it's just for a fill-in or a back-up in the future.
So the Bucs draft Winston, why does it have to mean anything for Glennon other than being the number 2 or perhaps the starter if Winston doesn't catch on quickly enough.
At this point I'm not sure he's any better than what we have but if he's available (and not for a 1st or 2nd round pick) then it wouldn't make me angry to find out if he can be the bridge.
Glennon sucks and his teammates hate him as a QB. You could see it all over their faces last year. Why bring in another guy to suck up practice reps who is no good? Not to mention giving up non-cash resources for him?
Reading defenses typically happens pre-snap. You can study a lot of film and learn the tendencies of defenses by their pre-snap alignments, down and distance, yard line, etc. Thus, you can exploit the defense.
Reading coverages happens after the snap. Many times, the defense will stay w/their typical coverage while aligning in a certain defense. However, there are other times where defenses disguise their coverage by giving an offense a pre-snap look, and then change their coverage at the snap. This is why you hear announcers and fans say----------"how did he not see that guy," or "where the heck was he throwing it."
Reading coverages is very difficult because things happen so fast. You have very fast players moving in all sorts of directions on various parts of the field and you have to decipher that in about 1.8 to 2.1 seconds while be rushed by gigantic men w/bad intentions. It would just be a blur for guys like you and I.
One word that you might want to look for when evaluating qbs is anticipation. If a guy is said to have good anticipation, he most likely is able to read coverages. If he doesn't throw w/anticipation, you probably want to stay away from him.
Great post, Vers. That is why Manning is such a lethal QB, he can do it all! I highly doubt there is many things he hasn't seen at some point in his career thrown his way.
Plus, and just between you and I, I think he has eyes all around his head and there are peepholes in his helmet so he sees the field in full 360 view lol!!!!!!!!
His draft profile from NFL.com above mentions that he uses his height to spot receivers breaking open and throws to spots that lead them to open spots in the defense - that seems to hint at some "anticipatory" skills. Plus, you would think that a young QB with 19 starts would have a worse stat line with regard to his TD-Int ratio, but Glennon's is fairly respectable (29 TD / 15 Int). He does seem to have a problem stepping up in the pocket, but to be fair, his line was pretty bad at TB and he faced a lot of pressure straight up the gut (judging from a highlight vid I watched of his rookie season). He does have a terrific arm, which would be nice to see when the November-December winds are blowing by the lake. I think I'd offer a 4th and walk away if they want more.
Oh, and thanks for the lesson in reading D's vs coverages.
Another way of saying what you're describing is pre-snap reads and post-snap reads. That makes natural sense to me on why one can be taught and another is much more difficult. It's a matter of brain processing power and a psychological ability to stay focused under pressure.
Glennon sucks and his teammates hate him as a QB. You could see it all over their faces last year. Why bring in another guy to suck up practice reps who is no good? Not to mention giving up non-cash resources for him?
I'm a little surprised at such a vehement reply from you, because you usually offer level-headed and well-considered opinions. What all don't you like about him?
When you have Oneil Cousins as your starting RT, you're in trouble. Tampa's line was atrocious. Glennon threw some pretty passes but he's not very mobile. Behind our line I would take a flier on him.
Behind our line? Even without Mac our OL was easily top 5 in pass protection. Perceived pressure by the QB is often very different than actual pressure and our QBs last year were not under pressure.
Providing we draft a nose tackle...I'd trade Phil Taylor straight up for Glennon...Taylor is a better 4-3 DT playing with McCoy and Spence inside would be good for him as well
I would love to bring him in but I just don't see farmer putting him josh back on the same roster. Then again. ....it is the Browns
But look at it this way: If McCown has accepted his role as a mentor/bridge QB, he would also understand that he's potentially the odd man out and expendable if it came down to it. It appears that at least for now his future is tied to Manziel's (or anyone we might pick up in the Draft).
I find the idea of Glennon in Cleveland a bit intriguing. He has the size and arm we're always saying we need in Cleveland. If we were to make a play for him, I wouldn't expect it to be before the Draft. If we don't draft a QB and he's available I wouldn't be surprised or mad if we did try to bring him in to the fold.
I've seen Glennon play a few games more than just the ones Brown game..IMHO he's a step above what we have, then again that's not saying much...He can clearly see the passing windows which Manziel can't...he has a couple years under his belt...His accuracy is iffy sometimes, other times he's point on..Has a big arm, throws nice RPM balls down field with little effort...Needs to develop more touch on the flats and intermediate passes...I think his pocket awareness improves dramatically with Cleveland's Oline...as Mitchell Schwartz in Tampa would be considered a budding star compared to what they played with...Just a thought
I don't see how things can be much worse than McCown, then I remember that Glennon got benched (twice) in favor of McCown.
No thanks.
cfrs...how could you be so wrong!
Glennon was McCown's backup when the 2014 season started. In the 3rd game McCown suffered a hand injury in the 2nd Qtr with the Bucs already behind the Falcons 35-0...Glennon did play well.
Glennon started the next week against the Steelers because McCown's hand injury was still bothering him...Glennon lead the Bucs to their first win playing a good game.
Glennon started the next game against the Saints and played well again, taking the Saints to OT as the Saints scored 11pts to send the game to OT..Saints won the coin toss and won the game.
Glennon started the next game against the Ravens but were blown out with the score 38-0 at halftime. Glennon played well in that game too.
After the Falcons bye week, Glennon started against the Vikings and the game went overtime before the Falcons lost..Glennon played well in that game too.
Next week Glennon started against the Browns, with the Browns winning on a late score. Glennon had 2 tds and 2 ints.
Lovie Smith went back to McCown at week 10 and Glennon was done for 2014.
Glennon finished season 117/203 (57%) for 1,417 passing yards, 10 tds and 6 ints and a 83.3 passer rating.
CFRS...you better not rely on your memory any longer...you were so far off..unreal.
IMO, Glennon would be an UPGRADE over any QB on our roster and the Browns front office would be fools if they didn't make a "serious attempt" to trade for him.
But hey, Glennon doesn't have the right name, wasn't drafted in the right round and he lost his job to McCown, right? I have no confidence in our front office Haslam and Farmer, to recognize "potential" when it is standing right in front of them.
Our front office will make some asinine reason for not going after Glennon.
I don't see how things can be much worse than McCown, then I remember that Glennon got benched (twice) in favor of McCown.
No thanks.
After the Falcons bye week, Glennon started against the Vikings and the game went overtime before the Falcons lost..Glennon played well in that game too.
<snip>
CFRS...you better not rely on your memory any longer
Before talking about the memorys of others, you may want to check to see which team Glennon played for last year.
Mike Glennon was a guy I was hoping for before free agency began. I like his size, his age, and his arm strength and I think if he were put into a good situation he could grow into a productive player. Glennon has been semi-productive on a bad team, at least in Cleveland he would have a running game and above average defense to lean on. If we could get him for a 3rd or 4th round draft pick, I would be happy with that.
Sorry, so McCown beat out Glennon for the starting job and then took the job back after a certain amount of time. Thanks for the reminder.
Where would a QB rating of 83 in the league last year?
cfrs...WRONG AGAIN...do you ever read?
McCown was brought to TB to be the starter and he was given the starting job by his old coach with the Bears. Lovie Smith.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On January 1, 2014, Lovie Smith was hired as the new head coach of the Buccaneers, replacing Greg Schiano.
After signing veteran free agent Josh McCown and many more free agents, many analysts predicted that the Buccaneers could be the surprise team of the year and possibly make a playoff run. Those predictions soon went away after the Bucs began the season 0-3, including a 56-14 blowout against the Atlanta Falcons on Thursday Night Football.
McCown was injured in that game, and 2nd year QB Mike Glennon was named the starter. His first start of the 2014 season ended with the Bucs earning their first victory of the season in Pittsburgh against the Steelers 27-24.
The Bucs lost the next 4 games, two overtime loses against the New Orleans Saints and the Minnesota Vikings, one blowout against the Baltimore Ravens and a 5-point loss against the Cleveland Browns. Going into Week 10 at 1-8, McCown returned as the starter. Mathematically, the Bucs were still in playoff contention only being 3 games out of first place in the division. McCown's first game back ended with a 27-17 loss to the Falcons but won the following week in a 27-7 blowout against the struggling Washington Redskins. The Bucs would lose the next three games and were officially knocked out of playoff contention in Week 14. The Bucs would finish 2-14, winning 2 less games than the previous season and secured the number 1 draft pick for the 2015 NFL draft. LINK
I am sorry I am getting the details of the 2014 Buccaneers QB situation wrong. The details are not what is important.
Glennon is not a QB worth giving up significant compensation for, that is the only thing that actually matters.
cfrs...This is a start, you recognizing that you are "misrepresenting" Glennon..how he got the starting opportunity with the guy that Lovie Smith brought to Tampa Bay from Chicago, Josh McCown suffering an injury,opening the door for Glennon.
Now you want to claim that Glennon's performance does not matter...WRONG AGAIN.. IT DOES MATTER !
2013...247 / 416..59.4%..2608 yds..19 tds..9 ints..83.9 rating**rookie season
As a rookie Glennon started the last 13 games (4w-9L) taking over the starting job from Josh Freeman.
ANYONE studying Glennon's performances should recognize his talent and potential. He has played under two different head coaches, OCs in two different systems. He is a pocket passer but moves well for a guy who is listed at 6-6, 235.
If the Browns management can't swing a better deal for a QB, Glennon could be exactly what the Browns need. You say Glennon is not worth "significant compensation"...QBs with his level of "potential" are not free. Just look at what the Browns invested in Manziel and the return on that investment. The market would determine his value.
I view Glennon as a solid QB who is not physically challenged..someone capable of withstanding the type of punishment he would get playing the Ravens, Bengals and Steelers twice a year.
If you don't like Glennon, tell me what you would do with the Browns QB situation.
I liked your post. It was informative and you made many points that could sway my opinion of Mike Glennon. I have thought he was saddled with a bad team in Tampa Bay. I believe the Browns are better as a team than the Buccaneers. I would think that he would enjoy more success here than he did in Tampa.
As for McCown, I know he is not the future. So, if the Browns are looking for a long term answer to the QB situation, why not look at Glennon? I think that he is probably no worse and a case can be made he is better than Hoyer statistically. We went 7-9 with Hoyer. I am all for improving the defense even more. We were 2-4 in the division last year. I believe the Browns are on the cusp of turning that into a 4-2 record in the division. No QB on the roster now is the long term answer, unless Johnny Football surprises us all and becomes what many said he might, a franchise QB. I would offer the least I could to the Buccaneers for Glennon. There are not a lot of teams looking for a QB like Glennon that would give up a top pick for him, IMHO. We own Buffalo's 4th rounder... so Buffalo would have to either go 3rd round or 5th round. We can beat that. Thank you for again for the stats for the games Glennon played and the reasoned argument.
I would prefer Glennon to McGown or Bradford. Manziel is still unknown. None are likely to be a long term answer, but we need a short term answer, and Glennon could be it; if the price is right.
I would offer the least I could to the Buccaneers for Glennon. There are not a lot of teams looking for a QB like Glennon that would give up a top pick for him, IMHO. We own Buffalo's 4th rounder... so Buffalo would have to either go 3rd round or 5th round. We can beat that. Thank you for again for the stats for the games Glennon played and the reasoned argument
vole...the info..no problem..I didn't want Glennon defined by someone who was looking at the wrong info.
I agree, trying to get Glennon as cheaply as we can BUT..don't be "cheap" and assume that other teams are not interested.
Like I said, we have QBs that could be traded and add a 3rd round pick or possibly a 2nd round pick, should be a decent offer that should get the job done.
If the Browns still want to hang onto Manziel to see if he pans out...fine.
Glennon could be the answer or at the very least, buy the Browns time and give the team a better chance to win than any of the QBs we currently have on the roster.
Like I said, we have QBs that could be traded and add a 3rd round pick or possibly a 2nd round pick, should be a decent offer that should get the job done.
I do not see this. You are entitled to your opinion, but I do not see our 4 QBs combined to be worth a 3rd or a 2nd.
Sorry it took me awhile to respond, I had a very busy day.
If you didn't want to wait you could have done a quick search and found out that I've commented extensively on Glennon in the past.
Quote:
If you don't like Glennon, tell me what you would do with the Browns QB situation.
Hasn't everyone been saying what they would do all off-season? Aren't there numerous threads where I've already said what I would do? Anyway, because I'm a nice guy, I will tell you what I would have done and what I would do going forward.
If you want to go back and look, all off-season I have said what I would do. I started a thread about Jay Cutler and if we should acquire him if he became available, I said we should sign Sanchez, Locker, re-sign Hoyer, etc.
From this point I don't think there is much we can do. I think Glennon is what he is. I don't think he will improve. He is a below-average QB. I don't think giving up assets for a below-average QB is smart. At this point in the off-season I would just roll with what we have, maybe drafting a QB in the later rounds to replace Shaw on the roster. If the opportunity presented itself, I would probably trade up for Mariota just because of the upside he brings to the table (I am not in love with Mariota).
We are in a terrible spot. There is not much we can do. That doesn't mean we should trade assets to replace crap with crap.
You keep bringing up Glennon's numbers as if they are impressive. They are not. We have an 19 start sample for Glennon's career. He has 619 pass attempts in his career (that many pass attempts would have been the third most this past year in the NFL). Glennon's career passer rating is 83.7, that would have been 25th in the NFL in 2014. He has a career completion percentage of 58.8, that would have been 29th in the NFL in 2014. Glennon does throw downfield well, with 11.1 yards per completion (that would have been 24th in the NFL in 2014). But he would not have the luxury of having Vincent Jackson and/or Mike Evans (both had over 1,000 yards receiving last year with crappy QBs). For his career Glennon has attempted 6.5 yards per pass, that would have been 32nd in the NFL.
If your argument is that Glennon is below-average QB, but might be better than what we have, then I agree. If your argument is that Glennon has been good and will continue to progress, then I disagree.
Like I said, we have QBs that could be traded and add a 3rd round pick or possibly a 2nd round pick, should be a decent offer that should get the job done.
I do not see this. You are entitled to your opinion, but I do not see our 4 QBs combined to be worth a 3rd or a 2nd.
Which QBs is he talking about? Manziel and Shaw? If we could get that compensation for either, neither would be on the roster right now.
I am sorry I am getting the details of the 2014 Buccaneers QB situation wrong. The details are not what is important.
Glennon is not a QB worth giving up significant compensation for, that is the only thing that actually matters.
cfrs...This is a start, you recognizing that you are "misrepresenting" Glennon..how he got the starting opportunity with the guy that Lovie Smith brought to Tampa Bay from Chicago, Josh McCown suffering an injury,opening the door for Glennon.
Now you want to claim that Glennon's performance does not matter...WRONG AGAIN.. IT DOES MATTER !
2013...247 / 416..59.4%..2608 yds..19 tds..9 ints..83.9 rating**rookie season
As a rookie Glennon started the last 13 games (4w-9L) taking over the starting job from Josh Freeman.
ANYONE studying Glennon's performances should recognize his talent and potential. He has played under two different head coaches, OCs in two different systems. He is a pocket passer but moves well for a guy who is listed at 6-6, 235.
If the Browns management can't swing a better deal for a QB, Glennon could be exactly what the Browns need. You say Glennon is not worth "significant compensation"...QBs with his level of "potential" are not free. Just look at what the Browns invested in Manziel and the return on that investment. The market would determine his value.
I view Glennon as a solid QB who is not physically challenged..someone capable of withstanding the type of punishment he would get playing the Ravens, Bengals and Steelers twice a year.
If you don't like Glennon, tell me what you would do with the Browns QB situation.
Mac, the stats don't matter. Glennon was terrible. He was TERRIBLE. I watched every snap of all three of the games leading up to the Browns game and gave a detailed review of what I saw during the season. (Unfortunately that is during the time when the board crashed and all that data from this board was lost.) Look at those teams he played. What were their pass defenses like this season? How did the mighty Brian Hoyer do against those teams? Glennon had 4 top 50 picks (3 of whom are 6'4"+) playing skill positions for him this season ans STILL they were terrible. Why? Because their quarterback was terrible. Hey, guess how many the Browns played with last year!
He WAS benched twice. It says it right thwre in whatever that diatribe you cobbled together is trying to say. Glennon was the starter at Tampa. Lovie Smith comes in and brings in McCown because he has seen that Glennon is not a viable starting QB and puts him on the BENCH. Glennon comes in only after injury, and plays so poorly he gets sent to the bench AGAIN. That's benched twice. And again, don't throw stats at me to try and prove your point. Watch the damn games if you want to speak with authority on it. "ANYONE studying Glennon's performances?" Mac there's no way you watched those games and came away thinking "Man, this guy has got something." He played like trash. His own teammates were giving up on him. It was embarrassing. If he has significant potential and it's all the OL's fault, why oh why are they using the number one pick on a QB when there are multiple teams that would give them three top 50 picks to get a new OL with?
The clincher for me is you talking about Glennon's "mobility" as some kind of positive. Are you kidding? He runs like he's got his clown shoes tied together.
I'm sick and tired of us using more and more resources (which results in committing more and more time) to crappy quarterbacks. Don't waste a draft pick, don't waste a start, don't waste a roster spot, don't waste a practice session on another QB who has just shown himself to be awful with try after try.
I'm sick and tired of us using more and more resources (which results in committing more and more time) to crappy quarterbacks. Don't waste a draft pick, don't waste a start, don't waste a roster spot, don't waste a practice session on another QB who has just shown himself to be awful with try after try.
I am sorry I am getting the details of the 2014 Buccaneers QB situation wrong. The details are not what is important.
Glennon is not a QB worth giving up significant compensation for, that is the only thing that actually matters.
cfrs...This is a start, you recognizing that you are "misrepresenting" Glennon..how he got the starting opportunity with the guy that Lovie Smith brought to Tampa Bay from Chicago, Josh McCown suffering an injury,opening the door for Glennon.
Now you want to claim that Glennon's performance does not matter...WRONG AGAIN.. IT DOES MATTER !
2013...247 / 416..59.4%..2608 yds..19 tds..9 ints..83.9 rating**rookie season
As a rookie Glennon started the last 13 games (4w-9L) taking over the starting job from Josh Freeman.
ANYONE studying Glennon's performances should recognize his talent and potential. He has played under two different head coaches, OCs in two different systems. He is a pocket passer but moves well for a guy who is listed at 6-6, 235.
If the Browns management can't swing a better deal for a QB, Glennon could be exactly what the Browns need. You say Glennon is not worth "significant compensation"...QBs with his level of "potential" are not free. Just look at what the Browns invested in Manziel and the return on that investment. The market would determine his value.
I view Glennon as a solid QB who is not physically challenged..someone capable of withstanding the type of punishment he would get playing the Ravens, Bengals and Steelers twice a year.
If you don't like Glennon, tell me what you would do with the Browns QB situation.
Mac, the stats don't matter. Glennon was terrible. He was TERRIBLE. I watched every snap of all three of the games leading up to the Browns game and gave a detailed review of what I saw during the season. (Unfortunately that is during the time when the board crashed and all that data from this board was lost.) Look at those teams he played. What were their pass defenses like this season? How did the mighty Brian Hoyer do against those teams? Glennon had 4 top 50 picks (3 of whom are 6'4"+) playing skill positions for him this season ans STILL they were terrible. Why? Because their quarterback was terrible. Hey, guess how many the Browns played with last year!
He WAS benched twice. It says it right thwre in whatever that diatribe you cobbled together is trying to say. Glennon was the starter at Tampa. Lovie Smith comes in and brings in McCown because he has seen that Glennon is not a viable starting QB and puts him on the BENCH. Glennon comes in only after injury, and plays so poorly he gets sent to the bench AGAIN. That's benched twice. And again, don't throw stats at me to try and prove your point. Watch the damn games if you want to speak with authority on it. "ANYONE studying Glennon's performances?" Mac there's no way you watched those games and came away thinking "Man, this guy has got something." He played like trash. His own teammates were giving up on him. It was embarrassing. If he has significant potential and it's all the OL's fault, why oh why are they using the number one pick on a QB when there are multiple teams that would give them three top 50 picks to get a new OL with?
The clincher for me is you talking about Glennon's "mobility" as some kind of positive. Are you kidding? He runs like he's got his clown shoes tied together.
I'm sick and tired of us using more and more resources (which results in committing more and more time) to crappy quarterbacks. Don't waste a draft pick, don't waste a start, don't waste a roster spot, don't waste a practice session on another QB who has just shown himself to be awful with try after try.
clev...you are entitled to your opinion...no surprise here, I see it a different way. View points differ for various reasons..for example, you may have thought Johnny Manziel was going to go #1 over all in last years draft..you may have believed that Manziel's value was off the charts and that he was worth of being chosen as the best player in the 2014 draft...I did not.
You might even believe Glennon's performance in his first two seasons in the NFL were TERRIBLE....just one problem..his numbers are not terrible, are they? Glennon's numbers do not square or match your opinion, do they?
Glennon's 2013 (rookie) QB numbers must be kept in context, as the Bucs offensive line was one of the worst in the NFL at protecting the QB, giving up a total of 47 sacks. Also, the Bucs offensive line ranked 22nd in rushing for 2013. Those two factors should be factored in, when trying to judge Glennon's performance.
With the Bucs offense not much of a threat to run the ball and having trouble protecting their QBs, Glennon was the ideal target to be blitzed..and he was.
The Bucs 2013 rushing game ranked 22nd and their yds per attempt ranked 25th in NFL.
In 2013, Glennon started the last 13 games for the Bucs, taking over for Josh Freeman when the team was already 0-3. The Bucs lost the next 5 games with Glennon, the 5th game a OT loss @ Seahawks. The Bucs then won 4 of the next 5 games before losing the last 3 games.
Rookie QB Glennon was 4-9 as a starter 247-416 (59.4%) = 2608 yds, 19 tds/ 9 ints, rating of 83.9%
Top WR in 2013 was 9 yr veteran, V. Jackson, signed as FA in 2012..1224 yds Next was UFA rookie, Tim Wright, WR/TE...571 yds Next was T.Underwood a 7th rd pick of the Jags, signed as FA in 2012, resigned 2013...440 yds
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ In 2014, the Bucs change HC, Lovie Smith..who signed Josh McCown to be the Bucs starter.
The Bucs offensive line did not improve in 2014 as they gave up 52 sacks and their rushing offense ranked 29th in the NFL.
In McCown's 3rd game (2nd qtr), he injured his thumb...Glennon takes over with Bucs behind 35-0. Final score of the Falcons vs Bucs was 56-14. Next game @Steelers, Glennon was 21-42=302 yds, 2 tds, 1 int... ...4th qtr, 40 seconds left, score Pitt leads 24-20, Bucs have no timeouts and takeover at Pitt 46..Glennon's 1st pass inc..next pass deep middle for 41yds...two plays later TD pass, Bucs win 27-24.
Next game, OT loss at Saints 37-31..the Saints won the coin toss, took the ball down the field and scored...end of game and OT. Next game, a loss to Ravens 48-17. Bye week... Next game...an OT loss to the Vikings, 19-13. Glennon's last game as a starter, a loss to the Browns @ Clevleand, 22 to 17.
In the Bucs next 8 starts, McCown, the Browns starter for 2015, leads the Bucs to 1 win and 7 losses. McCown ends up with a record of 1 win and 10 losses. Glennon ends 2014 with a record of 1 win and 4 losses.
The Bucs 2014 WRs...FA V. Jackson...1002 yds. Rookie 1st rd pick Mike Evans..............1051 yds FA WR, 4th rd pick by Raiders in 2009...380 yds UFA RB, 2012 (Ravens) Bobby Rainey...315 yds
As for Glennon's awkward, plodding style...you ever hear of a guy named Kosar?...all he did was win.
After all, isn't your final goal TO WIN?
As I said earlier in this response, steviecleve, nothing you have posted changes my mind or my opinion of Glennon. I would take Glennon over the fragile and weak Bradford and the recovering Johnny M. No way would I throw a ton of money at Bradford to get him to sign an extension, only to prove to all that he is genetically flawed with fragilitise.
If the Browns are going to expose themselves to all this abuse in 2015, just tell McCown that he is wins a single game he fired. Then use this draft to replace Alex Mack and Joe Thomas, who are more than likely going to leave Cleveland if the Browns tank 2015...so be it. Draft the best OT and best C in this draft, and with the #1 pick in 2016 draft, pick the best QB available. Then maybe we will be done with all this BS for the next 10 yrs or so....franchise LT...franchise C in 2015...and the franchise QB in 2016, followed by the franchise WR.
Then the Browns would have no excuse for not winning...right ?
I would not trade for Glennon. I have been hard on the FO, but I won't bash them over this one.
I agree w/much of steve's take. I also noted earlier in this thread that I don't think Glennon reads coverages very well and I don't like his pocket presence.
mac......and others.....I am not saying I am right, but I ain't going to bash the FO for not acquiring Glennon.
mac, i see a lot of numbers. I still don't see anything that tells me you actually watched him play.
Originally Posted By: mac
As for Glennon's awkward, plodding style...you ever hear of a guy named Kosar?...all he did was win.
So what? The only reason I even mentioned Glennon's mobility was your random assertion that he shows good mobility. The point was that comment is not one that is made by someone actually watching the guy play.
Of course you are entitled to your opinion. You are even entitled to form your opinion based on whatever you want, even if it is just a bunch of numbers, but then when you go and insist that "ANYONE" would of course come to the same conclusion as you, insinuating that whoever has a differing opinion on him doesn't know what they are talking abuot, you should at least make sure first that you do.
[quote=Versatile Dog Numbers do not always tell the entire story.
I would not trade for Glennon. I have been hard on the FO, but I won't bash them over this one.
I'm not going to bash them...UNLESS they do something nuts like trade for Bradford, only to watch him have issues like staying healthy and not playing for the Browns due to injury...OR if Bradford refuses to sign an extension to remain with the Browns.
The red flags are there...will this front office go blind once again?
I agree w/much of steve's take. I also noted earlier in this thread that I don't think Glennon reads coverages very well and I don't like his pocket presence.
I believe there are reasons that explain why Glennon might have issues readying coverages?
mac......and others.....I am not saying I am right, but I ain't going to bash the FO for not acquiring Glennon.
Some seem to believe I'm bringing up Glennon as the steal of all time and the one and only QB option the Browns should consider.
Glennon is an alternative to what we now have and an alternative vs doing something very stupid and risky.
Glennon, I liked his arm - I thought he was one of the better QBs in his draft class (not a first rounder).
Reminded me a little bit of DA. Except he was accurate with Every throw...then he would go through streaks where he can't hit the broadside of the barn. Inconsistent is his label from me at least. Don't know what to do to cure him of those streaks. Haven't watched him as a pro to see if he has or hasn't. When he is on and with a good OL he can do some damage.
Great QB? The Guy? I think not. but a kid who could take some starts due to injury to your starter and you could do great things if you get him in one of those GOOD STREAKS.
Do I want him here? As a backup secondary solution to the QB situation...sure why not as long as it doesn't cost much. He would have to beat out LEWIS right now for the 3rd QB...what would that be worth? 6th rounder I guess.
Answer to our Starting QB...if the question is who can we get to be over .500 possibly. If the question is to be THE GUY the answer is No.
jmho - unless the kid cured his streaky thing. If he did Tampa would be trading out of the #1 spot.
clevesteve mac, i see a lot of numbers. I still don't see anything that tells me you actually watched him play.
Quote:
As for Glennon's awkward, plodding style...you ever hear of a guy named Kosar?...all he did was win.
So what? The only reason I even mentioned Glennon's mobility was your random assertion that he shows good mobility. The point was that comment is not one that is made by someone actually watching the guy play.
Of course you are entitled to your opinion. You are even entitled to form your opinion based on whatever you want, even if it is just a bunch of numbers, but then when you go and insist that "ANYONE" would of course come to the same conclusion as you, insinuating that whoever has a differing opinion on him doesn't know what they are talking abuot, you should at least make sure first that you do.
I said.."ANYONE studying Glennon's performances should recognize his talent and potential."
clev...you obviously don't feel the same way I do about Glennon's talent and potential. We disagree...don't take it personally.
I put Glennon out there as an option to be considered.
lol!!!!!!!!
