I thought this was fun, and may get some football talk going during this slow time of the year. How do you rank and group the leagues QBs. Click the link, create your group, and share.

NFL QB Tier List

I think at this point Baker is in the above average class....lets see how it goes. He can still shoot to the top. Even if he levels off and stays above average, borderline elite, you can win with that. I mean win it all.

At that point, you just need to really focus on bringing the D to near elite status, and I think it is easier to build a D to that level. We already have a good start on that. I am old school. I think it more realistic to hold people below their average then it is to outscore everybody.

Baker's floor is probably top 10 with the weapons that he has.

In fact, in Fantasy Football, I think we are going to have a top ten at QB, RB, WR, TE,and Team Def. Maybe even another RB or WR sneaks into the top 10 as well. It's been a long time since we were that relevant in FF.

Mahomes
Brady
Brees

Wilson
Rodgers
Luck
Rivers
Newton
Ryan

Watson
Baker
Roethlisberger
Wentz
Goff

Cousins
Prescott
Garoppolo
Darnold
Stafford

Jackson
Foles
Carr
Mariota
Dalton
Allen
Rosen
Murray
Winston
Trubisky
Flacco
Eli
Keenum

This list is indisputable.

I had a hard time seeing all those pictures. Off the top of my head:

Elite:

Mahomes--KC
Rodgers--GB
Brady --NE
Brees--NO

Borderline Elite:

Luck--Indy
Wison--Sea
Ben--Pit
Rivers--LAC
Ryan--ATL

Above Average:

Watson--Hou
Cousins---Minni
Goff--LAR
Wentz--Philly

Average:

Baker--Cle
Jimmy G--SF
Dalton--Cinci
Stafford--Det
Dak--Dal
Trub--Chic
Darnold--NYJ
Foles--Jax
Allen--Buf
Winston--TB
Carr--Oak
Flacco--Den
Cam--Car

Below Average:

Fitz--Mia
Eli--NYG
Lamar--Balt
Mariotta--Ten

Incomplete:

Haskins--Wash
Murray--AZ

I did not grade the two rooks who I think will start. I can also see some young guys like Baker, Darnold, etc moving up and perhaps some of the older guys regressing.

Of course, this might be the most definitive list of QB rankings in the history of mankind.

There is just something about Derek Carr,

I feel that if you caught him on that one in a million day, he could just show up any other quarterback and have a hall of fame day, it wouldn't last for long, but I just hope that when the Browns are playing him it's not the day lightning strikes twice in the same place.

Yikes! I did not see your boy on the list!

Who is my boy? I had Jimmy G on there.

I struggled with the elite group. Definitely Brees, Brady and Roger's. Roethlisberger was but may not be today and Wilson, I would lean towards elite. I don't put Mahomes in quite yet. Baker above average.

Josh Rosen

That draft is over. Hell, I quit posting about the QBs before that draft occurred. The bickering got to be too much. Once a draft takes place, I almost always move on.

I like to talk about the draft for fun. It's gotten way too contentious in recent years for it to be fun and you might have noticed that I didn't say too much this year.

I think Rosen has a shot because he is really smart at reading coveragess and is very accurate. I thought he threw too many dumb picks last year. I heard Fitz was starting, so I did not include him.

I am not one of those posters who can't move on from an opinion.

Do you have Cam ranked that low because of his injury?

Baker
Mahomes
Brady
Brees
Rogers
Wilson

No, this list is indisputable.

J/C

I'm surprised Baker isn't listed higher on some of these lists. Perhaps wanting to avoid our bias, we're being unfair on the kid.

I mean, since Kitchens took over, Baker was one of the top quarterbacks in the league.

180/263 (68%)
2,254 yards (8.5 YPA)
19 touchdowns.
8 interceptions.

Double that second-half production to account for 16 games.

4,508 yards.
38 touchdowns.
16 interceptions.

Now, I know that's a crude method, but that's as a rookie. No Odell Beckham. No Kareem Hunt. No 2nd-year Callaway or Chubb to further help out. The offense lost Zeitler, but reasonably should be better.

I don't think it's unreasonable for Mayfield to join the ranks of the NFL's elite quarterbacks because in the second half of his rookie season, he did.

Second year quarterbacks typically take a huge leap, and this team looks to have improved around him. I don't see any reason why Mayfield can't solidify himself amongst the NFL's best.

My elite list would be:
Brady
Brees
Mahomes
Wilson
Mayfield

Hard not to include Roethlisberger, Rivers, or Rodgers.


Baker is absolutely 100% elite.

I can see borderline elite because he was just a rookie...

However, placing him anywhere else just goes to show that some still don't realize how good Baker is....

Big Ben was hardest to place imo

Actually Matt Ryan is. I could see arguments for both of them.

Brady
Brees
Mahomes
Rogers
Wilson
Luck

Rivers
Ryan
Goff
Roethlisberger
Wentz

Watson
Cousins
Newton
Mayfield
Prescott

Trubisky
Carr
Stafford
Garapolo
Alex Smith*
Winston
Foles
Mariota
Tannehill*
Dalton

Darnold
Jackson
Manning
Flacco*
Keenum*
Rosen
Allen

Just going off last year. A few of these guys aren't likely to be starting as much this year (I left of Fitzpatrick for that reason as well).

The answer has three parts.

The first one is the injury. He had a hard time even throwing the ball as the season progressed last year. We saw that up-close when he played us.

The second reason is that I don't think Cam has ever mastered reading coverages and his deeper intermediate accuracy is questionable.

The last reason is I tried to keep the list as close to a bell curve as possible. I moved a few guys down--like Cam and Baker and a few guys up.

My list was also a preseason list and I fully expect a lot of movement as the season unfolds.

I wouldn't put Mahomes in the elite list yet.

He's had 1 great year... Is that his norm? or was it a fluke.

I think he is definitely capable of being elite, but to call him that after 1 season is jumping the gun.

IMO, to be labeled elite, you need to perform well above average for several years.

For the life of me, I don't get why a guy who has 2 SB, is the highest paid QB in the league I believe, and has better numbers than Arodgers is always listed below him. . . .

Elite:

Brady
Wilson
Rodgers
Brees

Rivers
Rapistburger
Mahomes (needs more than 1 year to move to elite for me)
Luck

Ryan
Goff
Wentz
Mayfield

Watson
Cousins
Newton
Stafford
Prescott

Trubisky
Carr
Garapolo
Winston
Foles
Mariota
Dalton
Flacco

Darnold
Jackson
Manning
Keenum*
Rosen
Allen

I like what you did here....

I guess it depends on if you're going all time or for this upcoming season (now).

Ben might be a step down from Elite at this point but was once Elite.

I'm curious what you see in Mariota. You have him in the same grouping as Matt Ryan. If you bump up Matt Ryan I could live with that. However, I would rate Mariota much lower...

I tried to project it to this season. My criteria, for the most part, was a simple question. "How would I react if X was my QB?". That said, I certainly gave big Ben some legacy points. I did not discount him even though AB left, which might be foolish.

As for Ryan, I never really got the hype for him, even when he was young and being billed as 'Matty Ice'. I think he played under the best OC in the game (shanny Jr) and was elite. I do think I discredited him a bit because Steve Sarkisian is a joke of an offensive coordinator and I think that hurts his game a significant amount. I would easily understand why someone would rank big Ben and Ryan under elite, and I know I could not disagree with their ratings. But I don't know if I would agree with it either.

It could be people are basing it on "their performance so far".

1) Elite, have maintained elite abilities with success over time.

Brady, Rogers, Brees

2) Borderline elite; have demonstrated elite abilities, but either not consistently, not translated that into success, or former elite in decline.

Luck, Rivers, Wilson, Roethlisberger

3) Potential elite; have shown elite abilities but need more time to develop or qualify.

Mahomes, Mayfield, Goff, Wentz

4) Average; By definition, this should be the largest group. Bear in mind, the average NFL QB is very good by any other standard. These guys have shown the ability to win in the NFL, but either haven't shown elite abilities, or have been inconsistent. This group includes several young QBs with room to grow.

Ryan, Newton, Trubisky, Prescott, Watson, Carr, Garoppolo, Stafford, Smith, Mariota, Dalton, Foles, Flacco, Cousins

5) Not yet rated; last year's rookie class except Mayfield.

Rosen, Darnold, Allen, Jackson

6) Below average; most of these guys are more than back ups, but less than true starters. Then there's Manning, once great, should have retired by now.

Tannahill, Winston, Flacco, Keenum, Fitzgerald, Manning

I would include Wilson in the Elite category.

Yeah, I was on the fence with that one, but in the end, I think the elite group must be small, or it's not truly elite.

Am I the only one who thinks Luck is being a bit overrated by most? He had a comeback year for sure, but his arm looked very average to me and it seemed like he was pushing the ball instead of throwing it. I'd like to see him have another year before lumping him in the top two categories.

I also think Baker needs another year before being ranked too high.

I didn't really see Luck play last year, so I will defer to your greater knowledge on the count. As for Baker, that is why I placed him, with Mahomes (+ Goff, and Wentz) in a category titled potential elite. Both showed a lot last year, but need to back it up with more before really endorsing them.

Mahomes
Brees
Brady
Rodgers

Wilson
Rivers
Roethlisberger
Luck
Ryan

Mayfield
Goff
Newton
Wentz

Stafford
Prescott
Cousins
Garoppolo
Mariota

Foles
Carr
Trubisky
Darnold
Dalton
Winston
Allen
Jackson
Rosen
Murray
Flacco
Manning
Keenum

That's as legit as any other list. People might disagree on a couple QB ratings, but essentially we are all in the same ballpark.

They also might disagree with me not even listing Watson.

I'd slot Watson in between Newton and Wentz.

Right now?
yeah, thats about right.

Elite

Brees
Brady
Rodgers
Mahomes
Wilson

Rivers (he is both)

Almost Elite
Roethlisberger
Luck
Goff
Ryan

Above Average
Watson
Mayfield
Newton
Wentz
Stafford
Prescott
Cousins
Garoppolo
Trubisky


Average
Mariota
Foles
Dalton
Carr
Darnold
Winston
Keenum

Needs to be replaced/more time
Allen
Jackson
Rosen
Murray
Flacco
Manning
Mullens
Smith
Tannehill
Bortles

I don’t know why anyone else is posting a list after I posted mine.

Because you underrated our quarterback.

But it would appear that some are following suit.

I would imagine after this season most will have him in the elite category.

I love Baker. I think he will be great. He has played half a season good games. Other guys have better resumes. Hopefully if we make a similar thread next year he will move up.

Perhaps "some" are just trying to follow the guidelines of the thread and are expressing our opinions rather than bowing down to your wishes.

Trying to stick w/the theme of the thread.......

As I mentioned earlier, I expect some changes to the list as the season plays out. My list was simply a pre-season list.

I think that Brady, Brees, and Rivers might fall this year. I noticed some issues w/declining arm strength in all three last year.

Ben is an older qb, but I think his arm is still pretty damn strong. I have not seen a decline there.

Young qbs such as Baker, Darnold, and Allen might make a significant jump. I think Baker has the most talented offensive roster in the league, so he should jump. The Jets and Bills have improved their rosters, as well.

I have a hard time ranking any qb too high if their won/loss record is below .500. I had Mahomes high because he set the league on fire w/basically the same roster as Smith had and unlike some, I think Smith is a good qb.

I will be interested to see the progress of qbs like Watson, Jimmy G, Mariota, Goff, and Trubisky this year.

Will Matthew Stafford ever come close to matching his impressive physical gifts? Can Dak actually lead a team to an important victory if the opponent commits to taking Zeke away? Will Carr regain the magic he had a few years ago or has he lost his nerve and the respect of his teammates w/his emotional outbursts?

Lot's of intrigue among the qbs this year. It should be fun to watch.

We couldn't let you continue insulting Wilson and A Aron like that.

Wins and losses. And last year's results aren't what I'm most concerned about. It's all about the wins. Nothing else matters all that much.

This exercise is a bit of a moving target. 2019 has not been played. Some qb's are ascending some will descend.
So I will try to stay true to where things ended in 2018.

Elite -
Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Wilson, Ben, Mahomes

Borderline Elite -
Luck, Rivers, Ryan, Wentz,

Above Average -
Baker, Goff, Watson, Garoppolo, Cam

Average -
Stafford, Cousins, Prescott, Darnold, Eli, Foles, Carr, Mariota, Flacco, Trubisky, Dalton, Alex Smith

Below Average -
Winston, Rosen, Allen, Jackson, Keenum

1 Tom Brady
2 Drew Brees
3 Russell Wilson
4 Aaron Rodgers
5 Patrick Mahomes
6 Baker Mayfield
7 Ben Roethlisberger
8 Phillip Rivers
9 Andrew Luck
10 Deshaun Watson
11 Jimmy G
12 Cam Newton
13 Matt Ryan
14 Marcus Mariota
15 Carson Wentz
16 Mitch Trubisky
17 Jared Goff
18 Nick Foles
19 Dak Prescott
20 Kirk Cousins
21 Sam Darnold
22 Josh Rosen
23 Lamar Jackson
24 Nick Foles
25 Andy Dalton
26 Josh Allen
27 Derek Carr
28 Jameis Winston
29 Kyler Murray
30 Dwayne Haskins
31 Joe Flacco
32 Eli Manning


I expected making that would be harder.

As of past history:

Elite:

Brady
Brees
Ben
Rodgers

2nd-level:
Rivers
Wilson
Baker Mayfield
Goff
Newton
Stafford

3rd:
Watson
Marietta
Jimmy G.

Rest: who cares?

I would have to put Baker in the almost elite category. He did something no one else had ever done, with 27 TD passes as a rookie, and he did so in only 13.5 games. Now it's up to him to take the next step.

MaHommes threw 50 TD passes last year. That's elite.

Could these guys slip and decline? Sure, I suppose they could .... but based on their production last year, and coming into a new year, I think you have to look at what they did last year, as well as years before.

The guy who was elite during his 1st 5 years, yet fell off badly in the last 2, is no longer elite. By contrast, I think that the guy who came on super strong, and reached levels few, if any, have ever reached, he's elite.

A question.............do we only measure a qb by TDs?

Are wins, completion percentage, and interceptions not even measurable factors?

Forgot about Ryan. I'd put him in 2nd-level QB .

I would think all aspects are considered.

But I would say I think if Mahomes only threw 30 TDs he probably wouldn't have been MVP.

No on wins, yes on all the others.

I wasn't asking you. I wanted a reply from someone who is somewhat open-minded.

I kinda get that, but you are saying a qb w/a losing record should be considered as "elite?"

I am not saying you are suggesting that, but it kind of comes across that way. Just asking you to clarify.

Dammit! I forgot about Mahomes!

He's Level 2, bumping Stafford.

I think Mahomes is the best qb in the league right now. I say that while admitting that I was wrong about the guy. We had posters saying he was all that in college and I disagreed. I said he was too inaccurate to be a top qb.

I swear I saw that in college, but damn man, the dude is very accurate. I was dead wrong and can admit it.

He is a true difference maker. Best qb in the league right now.

Usually a team with a good QB ends up having a winning record which means the QB ends up with a winning record. But there is definitely a circumstance I can see where a QB's team is horrible but he is elite.

For example, Philip Rivers went 4-12 and 5-11 in 2015 and 2016 respectively. He was very good. His team was terrible. The Saints had seven wins four out of five years from 2012 to 2016 and Drew Brees was among the best QBs in the league.

All factors can contribute. However, when you look at how other QBs in a similar situation did .... for example, when (and though in a different era) Peyton Manning completed only 56% of his passes, with 26 TD and 28 INT, 6.5 yards/pass, and a 3-13 record ..... well, Baker matches up favorably.

Russell Wilson is a guy in a more modern era, and he had an excellent rookie year. 11-5, 64% completions, 26 TD, 10 INT, 7.9 yards/attempt.

Baker Mayfield's numbers were 64% completions, 6-7 (though since he won a game where we were trailing by 14 when he came in, I would give him 7-7) 7.7 yards/attempt, 26 TD, 14 INT.

Wilson took over a team that was 7-9 the season before. They also had a great scoring defense. I think that, despite being a longer shot based on draft status, he had an easier situation to drop into. He had very good RB and WR on his team. One thing that cannot be overestimated is the fact that his coach and OC weren't fired at mid-season. Baker also had the pressure to turn around a miserable team.

So, when I look at the facts surrounding the situation Baker was in, and the results he produced, I have to put him at least at "almost elite".

I'm only basing my rankings on history, not potential.

Mahomes won the MVP award last year.

Ironic.

I agree in principle, but I think that a guy needs to do it over a period of time before he can be considered elite despite having a losing record.

The biggest exception I ever saw was Archie Manning. I thought he was a very good qb, but his teams lost. I still think he was a good qb.

Yeah and I forgot about him. He won the MVP but IMO he is not yet elite. Too small of a work history.

Fair argument. I think Baker had a lot more offensive talent around him than Wilson. I also think he is inaccurate at times due to his footwork. I think he passes up easy completions and forces the ball downfield. I think he is good when his first read is open, but struggles a bit when asked to read coverages. I think he turns it over too much.

I don't think he is close to "elite" yet.

With that said, I think he had a helluva first year and I was surprised by how well he played. I think he has the potential to be elite. I just would not put him there yet.

The overall point is that the defense contributes to wins and losses too. That means a QB is being credited (or not credited) for the play of his defense. That makes no sense.

LOL............I know what you are saying.

Conversely, a qb's play can affect the defense, too. Turn it over a lot? The other team scores. Too many three and outs? The other team scores.

I'm not getting on your case because I think you are being honest. I just don't think Baker is close to "elite" yet. I do expect him to reach that level this year, though.

I agree that the QB can affect the defense's performance. That just further hammers home the point.

I didn't have Baker as elite yet either. I had him as the 11th best QB in the league. His win/loss record is completely meaningless to me.

For me, wins and losses can play a role, but it's not the end all. As you said, elite quarterbacks have losing seasons. (And I don't consider Baker as a losing quarterback, 7-7 with, 0-1-1 without)

I'm not measuring baker solely on wins and touchdowns. The physical stats also aren't the end all. I'm not just talking about Baker the player. I'm also talking about Baker the person.

An elite quarterback needs to be able to lead and Baker is certainly an elite leader. Players want to come here because of him.

Your quarterback needs to be a playmaker. Baker is certainly an elite playmaker. He's very intelligent. He can read the defense, work through his progressions, and find the open receiver. He keeps his eyes down field. He's not afraid to take that hit in the pocket. He knows how to manipulate the defense. He has the ability to throw his receivers open and knows where to put the ball where only his guy can get to it. He has amazing pocket presence and amazing footwork and throws with balance. My favorite throw is the one to Landry against Carolina for a touchdown. THAT was an elite throw!

I could say i don't care about the stats and I don't. Watching him play the game is something special. Something we've not seen here in a long long time. All the things people say you can't teach, he has and he does. He elevates the play of everyone around him. He even elevates the fans.

Elite-ism isn't something that takes time to establish, you are either awesome at your craft or you're not. And Baker is flat out awesome! People want to say it takes time and that whatever comes later doesn't make him elite now, that's fine. I don't care.

The talk before the season was how an 0-16 team could never make the playoffs the next year. We still had a chance to make the playoffs heading into wk 16. How many said that wasn't possible? But there we were.

I mean I guess I get it. People do not want to rank him as elite just yet but he's trending there. Ok. Fine. In my book he's already made it. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

Wilson wasn't exactly deficient in talent around him.

Beast Mode, Sydney Rice, Doug Baldwin, and Golden Tate were all good weapons for him. They had a run heavy offense, that resulted in 2579 yards rushing. That is astonishing, and great for supporting a rookie QB. Now, in fairness, about 450 of those yards were from Wilson.

Wilson only threw for 3118 yards as a rookie. (in 16 starts)

Baker threw for over 3700 yards in 13.5 games. His 27 TD passes were good for 11th in the NFL.

I agree with some of your other assessment. However, I have always said that I believe it more possible to rein in a wild QB, than to get a timid QB to take calculated chances when the opportunity presents itself. I also think that you underestimate his ability to read a defense. Yes he does occasionally get fooled, but that happens to all rookies. He had a total of 14 INT and 3 fumbles lost. That is not bad at all for a rookie. There is a long list of upper level QB who had 11-12 INT last year. 8 of Baker's 14 INT came in 3 games, against the Chargers, Texans, and Ravens. Sometimes a defense winds up with the right combination of tricks and tools, and their offense gets ahead so they can really come after the opposing rookie QB. I think that happened in all of those games.

I think that Baker is closer to elite than you do. It's all good, though.

1st thing u need to do is define elite ... my definition when it comes to nfl players includes having to do it for 3 or 4 years at an elite level before they can become elite therefore Mahommes and Bake don’t qualify yet ...

Mahommes had an elite year ... one of the best ever ... he needs to play at an elite level a few more years to enter into the elite category ...

Bake had an elite rookie season .... he did not have an elite year when u factor in all nfl qb’s ... he did some elite things FOR A ROOKIE and showed the potential to become elite really really quick ... but IMO saying he’s elite now is a rush to judgement ...

Now if i had to start a franchise my #1 pick would be Mahomes and my #2 pick would be Bake ...

I agree. Elite is the player who does it year in and year out.

I would agree with you about Wilson and his surrounding talent. Baker's feature back was also a rookie. His lone deep threat was also a rookie. Learning curve for everyone, and still...

For me, i'm talking about the quarterback himself, not necessarily the numbers he puts up. However, I'm sure most would say they want to see him do it again. And again. Wilson was another who was known as elite out of the gate doing elite things his first year. Im ok with the status some proclaim our quarterback while others want to see more...

I'm not looking at sustained success over long periods of time - my list is who I think the best QB's in the NFL today (or game 1 of the season). Some of it has to be forecasting - because how else do you include rookie QB's who will start this year? My list doesn't include any future growth of the QB - so no matter how well a QB may develop in the future, I'm ranking them on their anticipated play with their current roster for the upcoming season.

Used CHS as a basis for my list as it's pretty close to where I would rank a lot of these QB's.

Somewhere I lost a QB ... and I took Flocco off the list since Lamar is starting. Lamar got dinged because I see teams taking away the run and I think he's not such a good passer, Cam got dinged as I don't think he's a very good QB (supreme athlete - not great QB).

From memory - what Baker did in his rookie season was 9th best in the NFL last year from a purely statistical perspective? Sure I read / saw that .... and that doesn't reflect the turmoil he experienced in the FO for the first few weeks and that he didn't get 1st team reps till late .... I think dropping him into anything below the second level of any QB rating is unwarranted. And that's without even talking about additions this off season.