November 2 is the trade deadline.

Will the Browns make a move? I am guessing that they will.

We need backup at tackle. I don't know who is available for trade on other teams.

Nor do I know if we would trade someone off the current roster or draft picks.

Billings has been a disappointment. He is veteran and might help some defense who needs a "A" gap player.

He really is not a fit for us. He may fit a 3-4 team better.

I wonder about receiver but I doubt it. Odell has more value to us than he would bring in trade.

Look at the bad teams and the dumb teams. A lot of times they are the same. If start with Houston, Jacksonville, and Detroit and see if they’d be willing to give up a guy cheap.

It seems like it’ll be a buyers’ market because a lot of teams don’t have cap space.

I don't really see us being able to move the people off the roster that we would want to for a price that makes sense (Billings, OBJ). I'm not sure anyone will be available for the right price that we would want to bring in. Our OTs appear to be getting healthier, so our depth (Hance) should be fine. Maybe swing for the fences on an upgrade at LB? I don't see Berry making front page news in the next week or so.

No one would want to take OBJ’s contract at his current production level and health status.

We could use some depth on the defensive line.

I don't think we will make any moves. we can't move OBJ

I don't think we will make very many moves. Some to consider:

Do we want/need a Qb?
I would make a Baker and next years 1st for Russell Wilson trade. This would be franchise changing.
Not sure how much more I would be willing to offer. Maybe add a 3rd. Feel I need to add this, I really like Baker but Wilson is one of the top Qb's in the league. In another thread someone pointed out that he was 32. That still gives him about 8 more years in the league.

Alternatively, would anyone be interested in firming up the backup Qb position?
If Baker is out then we have Keenum and Mullins.
Would anybody give up a midround pick for Trubisky?
A 2nd day pick for Mariotta?


What's up with Kyle Fuller?
The Denver Cb isn't even starting.
Seems like he would be available. Worth it?


N'Keal Harry?

I doubt that any move will be made at quarterback.

Case is not guaranteed after this year.

Mariota or Trubisky would be a smart future move but not this year.

Both of them IMO would fit the offense we run. Trubisky was ruined in Chicago. Mariota would be a solid backup.

Trubisky might be one of those players who does well the second time around. He came into the NFL with so little experience.

Went to the Bears and never really had a chance.

Who is the "WE" that wants to dump OBJ?

The 'royal We'.

I've hit that point with him. I've pretty much given up on the OBJ-Baker experiment. It's been 2.5 years.

I'll share that throne. He's not a reliable receiver unless he's getting 70% of the targets, then he'll put up decent yardage numbers and below average "per target" numbers. Enough is enough.

I'd trade OBJ-Mayfield for Deshaun Watson straight up, if he clears his legal issues

Obviously. But the Texans would laugh at you and then hang up the phone. OBJ has no trade value because of his contract.

I wouldn't trade a 7th for Watson right now. Those legal issues aren't going way any time soon.

Correct. The Dolphins allegedly have a deal in place for him once he is cleared. So they’ll get him in 2026.

I would be one, but he really doesn't have much value to us or any other team given his contract. Maybe Green Bay would be interested if they could get the guy to take a pay cut.

At this point the contract is only part of the reason OBJ has no value. His injuries and complete lack of production are factors - and while people can debate whether he's open or not, you can't debate the drops he's had in multiple games when hitting him squarely in the numbers.

When we needed him the most in crucial situations.

No doubt. I just boiled it down to the contract number. I assumed that if his numbers were good, we probably wouldn't even be talking about trading him, but sure, he just isn't getting it done as a receiver.

Maybe a bit off topic, but related I think. Are any of our receivers, including tight ends doing much better from a production standpoint? Is that because they are are underwhelming? Maybe the system? The QB? Because they lose interest due to the run game? I guess that would be system.

The lack of production isn't isolated to OBJ. I think he stands out more because of his status in the eyes of NFL fans. I mean, Landry seemed more productive in Miami. Hooper in Atlanta.

I wonder if Cooks ends up with a contender … heck, maybe even us

We're kinda getting off topic, which I don't mind, but some might.

The system is certainly geared to spreading it around. I think at the game vs Denver Case keenum started off something like 10 passes to 7 different receivers? That's by scheme not because he's a back up. I've mentioned before Hooper had big numbers in Atlanta but there was a 'The Athletic' article or PFF article and analysis on Hooper they year he was a FA- and a lot of the receptions and yards came in garbage time for ATL. So slightly skewed.

I don't mind the reduction in production if it's part of a winning team/culture/system ... I think the issues with OBJ that we discussed are more than the system though. Just my 2 cents. I hope he's going to come back stronger, quicker than ever and contribute like we all thought he might when Dorsey got him. Just not holding my breath.

That's a good point about the scheme. IMO, Mayfield is at his best when he's distributing. When he's locking onto 1 receiver, that tends to be the same games he's not doing so well. Not sure if this is causation or correlation, but it's something I've noticed. The part about the scheme might also be true with what we saw from Keenum.

I take absolutely no pleasure in in saying what I said about OBJ (shipping him out). I've been hoping for that connection to form the whole time he's been here. I don't understand why it never happened (probably a whole host of reasons starting with injuries). Whatever the case may be, here we are 2.5 years into it with VERY little to show in terms of those two having an in-game connection, and we have a guy like DPJ that's on his way up. I really think we should shift our focus to feeding that on-field connection (if that is even what we're doing).

It's a bummer.

If we make any moves at the deadline my hope would be LB and DT. Ours are really bad

There’s no doubt that Baker is at his best when he’s dishing it all over the field. That’s why we were successful when we were playing our best. Our offense is not geared to produce Pro Bowl WR numbers

More than anything else with Odell it is promise versus production.

There is no doubt that Odell has great talent. And from all who have direct experience with him. He works hard. He is a good teammate.
He wants to win more than produce numbers. His issue is health. I don't believe in "injury prone." Injuries are random.

However, Odell is susceptible because of they way he plays and what he has to rely on to be good.

He has missed a lot of games in his career. I wonder if he will ever be the player he once was?

I really think what we need most is a swing tackle. I do not like the current back up plan for RT/LT.

I've been beating the 'underwhelming' drum for at least two years now. Not one WR is dynamic. Either that big(ger) guy who can go get the ball...or the jitter-bug who simply gets open...AND/OR the guy to challenge the defense deep...we have none of those.

DPJ - and even Shwartz - might become one of those types...but they aren't today. I can only imagine how effective Landry and Higgins would be with a truly dynamic guy on the filed with them.

Brandin Cooks would possibly be one of those dynamic guys...but he's listed a 5'10...so he's shorter than that...shorter than Baker. I'd think he could be had.

Allen Robinson is 6' 3" and wasting away in Chicago. Not sure if he's 'available'....but he'd be my target.

Here’s my thing about OBJ right now: IS he a great talent anymore? He hasn’t made any spectacular plays or game changing plays for a long time. Most of his catches (if he does catch them) are pretty run-of-the-mill.

I will say this about him tho: he’s a good blocker in our run game

I don't disagree.

He had one game against Dallas last year when he was a game changer.

In the offense we run. We don't need that.

Our plan is really about complimentary players. The whole not the individual.

And I am good with that plan. Because if you rely on one guy. What happens when he goes down?

Teams can take one guy away as well.

I like our offense. In addition I like receivers who win 50/50 balls. So I lean towards big receivers.

There are a few guys that are separation guys in the NFL. But I think it is easier to find those guys who can muscle db's.

something tells me we wont be making any significant moves.

think our coaching staff/FO just wants to see our team healthy for a chance, and are willing to ride this season out. we do have a good chance of starting the 2nd half the season healthy and rolling.

Probably right.

Berry is not likely to trade picks for players.

One guy though who is expendable is Billings. He could help some teams as a "A" gap player.

And we could use a swing tackle for sure.

I think Hance has held up pretty well. It was when we had to start Hudson that the wheels fell off.

I agree he’s been a pleasant surprise. It’s apparent we can’t have Hudson near the field tho lol

Is it Hudson, or is it the fact we have both out there at the same time? IIRC, one time we put Hudson out there instead of Hance and were ok. It was when we had to start both young'ins at the same time that we had problems.

OOBER,

When was that? Not trolling, just have 0 memory of any decent performance by Hudson.

LEADTHEWAY,

Are you that unhappy with our DTs? I've been pleasantly surprised with how competent they've been. McDowell has been disruptive, and Jackson, Billings, and Elliot have at least held up against the run pretty well. Of course it would be nice to have game-changer there, but when and where is that not true?

I only ask because the only folks that are talking about it are in the media...

They aren't very good.. Big drop off from Richardson to Jackson, and I like McDowell but he's not there yet.. He flashes but he also makes alot of mistakes. Billings is trash. Elliot is a decent rotation guy. But our DT's and LB's are consistently ranked in the 50's for PFF after games..so if theres a chance to upgrade there we should look at it

Fixed it for you.

I believe it was the Cardinals game where we had to start both Hudson and Hance together and our Oline struggled. It seems we managed to do ok in other games when we had at least 1 of our starters. This kinda makes sense (to me) because I'd imagine it's waaay easier to gameplan to cover 1 weak link vs 2.

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/arti...rade_for_andre_dillard/s1_16748_36267284

I could see this happening.

Hubard is mostly likely done in Cleveland. Dillard was a first rounder with promise. He is still young.

If the Browns decide to keep Njoku. Bryant is expendable.

So yes this could be real. It makes sense.

Send them Schwartz and a conditional 4th.

Hasn’t Dillard been horrible? Like hasn’t been able to crack the starting unit horrible? The Eagles should be happy if they get a conditional seventh round pick because that means someone took his contract of their hands.

I thought the report said he has played well since being inserted.

Face it, nobody is trading away a great player without much fanfare and cost associated. I don't know if this guy is any good or not, but we do need to beef up the line, so it could have some legs.

Of course VG & Hoop were more productive with there last teams … we don’t throw the ball near as much as they do and Hoop is part of a 2.5 head monster here ..

VG was all Miami had … they had no RB’s, WR’s or TE’s … he was the entire show …

It’s really not that hard to figure out at all …. Shame on U … *L* …

I think his overall historical performance makes sense as go-to depth for us... so long as the price to get him aligns.

I didn’t say we shouldn’t trade for him. I just don’t think we should give anything of value.

I agree keep Higgins send them Schwartz.

1. It makes no sense to send them anything of value.
2. If we were to make a dumb trade and send them something of value, sending them Schwartz, who has three years after 2021 on a cheap contract, instead of Higgins, who has no years on his contract after 2021 and barely plays, would be the cherry on top of the dumb sundae.

BIG TRADE NEWS!
Just isn't happening.

We have Higgins under contract through the rest of this season. We have no idea where he may end up after that. Schwartz is a rookie with three years left on his rookie deal. I wonder what your opinion would have been of Higgins as a rookie WR?

As a rookie Higgins played in 16 games, had a total of 6 receptions for a total 77 yards.

I keep Higgins also. His rookie stats matter, of course. You say he played in 16 games. Any breakdown on how many plays he was playing receiver?

What he HAS done since is prove he's a reliable receiver. Do you take an unreliable receiver of a proven, when given the chance, receiver?

I just wished to show that people are being premature about trying to judge Schwartz so soon. There's also the fact that Higgins contract is over at the end of the year. First it would be hard to even get someone to consider a trade for a player only signed for what boils down to half a season. So trading Higgins is pretty much not going to happen anyway. Secondly, people seem to be promoting we trade away a rookie with physical skills and three and a half years left on his contract for a player we only have under contract for half of a season. When thinking about the long term implications of that it just doesn't make sense to me.

I keep the young proven player. I drop the younger, totally unproven player.

I would keep Schwartz also. I really believe with reps he can be good. Why would anyone want to trade Higgins. He's proven himself to be reliable and is one of Bakers favorite targets. We can talk about trades all we want but I really believe if we can just get healthy we can play with and beat anyone. JMO

So you get a nine game rental. That's fine.

As I said, with him only being under contract for the rest of this season, nobody is going to trade for him. Some people just choose to ignore that part. Besides, as I said, Higgins is only under contract for nine more games. From the long term perspective, in the long run it doesn't make any difference.

Not at all what I said. It's what you interpreted. I keep him, resign him. I don't trade him.

And what even is Higgins value anyway? He was an unrestricted free agent and came back to us for, basically, the minimum.

To be clear, I wouldn’t trade either for a backup tackle.

I agree with both of you.

Why would Philly want a receiver (Higgins) that they have to resign/hope to resign at the end of the season? It doesn't make any sense. I would understand if they are trading for a star or superstar that is an unrestricted free agent. This way they could be the first to re-sign the player or worst case scenario slap the franchise tag on them. ....that isn't Higgins.
If they are dumb enough to trade for him, then we need to keep Philly on speed dial for future trades.

The tweet about us being interested in the article, thanks for the information. The thought process of the article, is poorly thought out in my opinion. Basic facts and stats...cool thanks. But bring OBJ's name up, Higgins doesn't make sense to me. They have Dallas Goedert, are they running two TE sets? Is Harrison Bryant and a draft pick really worth trading a young OL to them?

Things to consider. Dillard struggled his first year, he was out for his second year, he has played well for four games this year. Technically this is really his second season...maybe this is a good comparison or maybe not....Greedy, played meh his first year (I'm aware he was injured too), didn't play last year, and has played pretty solid his third year.

My point, maybe Dillard is finally blossoming. Would that benefit them to trade a receiver or TE for Dillard?

Really....I wouldn't either. My reason is because both are young and inexpensive. Just throwing names that move on next year.....WRs: OBJ, Higgins / TE: Chief. Those two (Bryant and Schwartz) are good young inexpensive pieces that might get a big piece of playing time next year.

Njoku has come along way. He has matured.

The Browns may want to sign him. If that is their plan Bryant becomes expendable.

Berry IMO will try to find tackle depth.

Andrew Berry’s worst move, the Austin Hooper contract, is going to come back to haunt us in the 2022 off-season. We basically can’t move on from him unless we trade him. I would guess that means we let Njoku go unless he re-signs for a cheap contract.

I agree. If we could trade Hooper and re-sign Njoku, that would be ideal IMO

When a players contract is up you don't have a choice. That player is a FA and can sign anywhere he wants. You can't choose where that player goes or who he signs with. The only thing you have guaranteed is the length of his contract. You can hope that's what would happen if you like. You have him under contract for the rest of the season. That's all you have .

Nah, it's not that big of a deal. We can just get him to restructure or extend - a new contract that puts some extra cash in his pocket, but spreads out the cap hit.
As-is, he will count against our cap in 2024 in the voided year... we just need to do an extension that that keeps him here for that year and maybe 2025 and moves some of the 2022 & 2023 salary into signing bonus.... it's just Cap/money; there is ALWAYS a way to make it work.
Plus, the new TV deal money will finally be kicking in. Cap space shouldn't be a worry at all.

Moving Bryant would necessitate keeping Hooper, because Bryant is the guy we're grooming to backfill behind Hoops.

If we felt we had to, we could probably franchise Njoku. The projected 2022 tag is about $10. If we don't see some improvement in the integration of OBJ into the offense, I could see us tagging Njoku, cutting or trading OBJ, (and at this point it's probably cutting) and taking a WR very early in the draft.

I agree. I think WR is our first round pick regardless

With the the system we run I just don't see it that way. Our system relies on spreading the ball around in the passing game and using the run more than most teams. You don't need dominate WR's to accomplish that. There have been many debates on this board about the draft value of WR's. And if your system is pass centric with little to no running game being used, the value of those WR's greatly increases.

But I've seen no sign that's what we're doing here. As has been shown in stats it seems we rely far more heavily on the RB's, yes even in the passing game to an extent, and TE's than we do WR's. Nothing to me indicates that takes a first round investment at the WR position. Not for us in the current system.

I think we must remember that when this team invested heavily in WR's it was under a different FO, with a different coaching staff and a different system. I do not see that repeated as things stand currently.

Getting Ogbah back would be nice.

I wonder if we’d bring Ogbah back? Another rusher would help

Any help on the defensive line would be nice. We are one Clowney injury away from being very thin on the line.

We are not a playoff team. Are we buyers....or sellers?

Sellers 100%. We're not even close.

That's a great move for the Broncos.

Imagine if right now at 4-4 we traded our best defensive player. That’s what the Broncos just did.

Rams have Donald, Miller, and Ramsey at all 3 levels lol wow

Did you see the Broncos when we played them? They're not doing anything this year, and Von Miller's time is coming to a close.

I saw (obviously). I just can't imagine being a fan of a team with a 30ish% chance of making the playoffs and the team throws the white flag. Brutal. Also, imagine being a player on the actual team. The front office is basically telling you to pack it in.

That would be the message I would get out of it. This type of move is usually done by basement dwelling teams. Not teams playing .500 ball mid way through the season.

Granted, this was coming from the talking heads during the game, but the word on Denver is that they're done. Between injuries and just bad play, that 30% chance is misleading.

j/c:

Chiefs need pass rushing help so it makes sense

j/c:

Emphasis on the second sentence more than the first.

I'd consider trading OBJ to either NO for Michael Thomas or to HOU for Brandin Cooks if deals could be worked out. But, I'm not sure I'm ready to give up on OBJ yet - he hasn't been his old self since returning (you could argue he hasn't been his old self at all on the Browns, lol)

I read something yesterday (don't have the link) about us trading for Xavien Howard - Ward and Hunt were both mentioned (not as a package). Not sure how much that makes sense unless we know Ward won't accept what we'd be willing to offer on an extension, and I don't think anyone wants to get rid of Hunt regardless of how well Johnson has played. I wouldn't be surprised if Tennessee reached out to us about Johnson with Henry being injured, despite the Peterson signing.

I also read yesterday that the Browns may have interest in Andre Dillard and Cody Ford both and backup OL since we've had so many OL injuries. If we do any trades, these guys make the most sense to me.

This all said, I don't think we do anything - we're not good enough to be buyers or bad enough to be sellers at this point. I wish the trading deadline was week 10 or 12 so teams had a better idea if they were legit playoff contenders or not.

The time has come to trade OBJ away. He's never done anything for this team but kill it, Baker, and the offense.

He needs to go today. Let's get this done.

we can't. his cap hit would makes it impossible.

This is not true.

no one in their right mind is going to take his 9.7 million cap hit for OBJ. Plus, we would have to take his cap hit

Correct. While it won't be easy, it is not impossible. If I'm not mistaken on the way the cap works, here's why...I believe he's owed about $8m of the 15.5m, so we'd take the dead cap hit of 15.5, but save on the $8m. We have $9m space, so we could absorb the $7.5m difference. Taking on a new salary would be harder to absorb, as it'd likely require someone else on the team to re-work a deal (or we'd have to cut someone in the top 53 that doesn't have a negative cap impact by cutting).

I agree that no one would take on the money but we can take on some of the money to make the deal more amenable for the other team (like the Broncos did with Von Miller).

Just what is the value of a 2 time malcontent who is a self proclaimed superstar coming off of an ACL surgery.

Detroit has no WRs
John Dorsey is in Detroit
John Dorsey traded for OBJ......

There are only a few teams that can take on OBJ without us eating some money. Most of them are bad teams. The others are good at receiver. The Chargers have $10,713,723 in cap space and would make some sense.

I would eat the money and move on. OBJ is going to be gone in 2022. Get a pick and start fresh now.

If a team wants to trade us and eat half his money I’d do it immediately

It probably would have to be more than half.

If we wanted to trade OBJ, which it doesn't seem like we want to do, then I would gladly eat the money to get more compensation. Like I said before, is there a team that wants him?

Now that OBJ’s father has stepped into the fray…

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id...post-shows-baker-mayfield-not-passing-jr

Time to unload him. I don’t care if they simply cut him. If they can get some used footballs for him that would be fine.

OBJ’s dad cares
Kind of like Eric Wright’s dad
You remember that?

"We're 1-7 and don't have have our first round pick because we traded up when didn't have to and now can't afford to give up more picks."

Packers? 49ers? Patriots?

I don't think it's going to happen.

What would a team look at that would make them think "we need to make a deal for this guy right now"?

Dude is going to be a FA. His production is down and has been down since we got him (and was trending down before that). His $$$ is high. He's beat to hell (one or more shoulder injuries to go along with the litany of stuff he's recently recovered from).

I think we're stuck with him. I'm hoping that we're taking a serious look at what/who we're putting out there. Stefanski's hands are tied right now due to injuries to our passcatchers. OBJ has to be out there because the alternative is Schwartz.

They don't need to have OBJ, or Schwartz out there. They have Landry, they have Higgins, they have Njoku.
and others.

Womp womp

Nobody cares as much as Colt's dad.

True but they aren't going anywhere with Miller. They are looking to the future.

Yeah but the Steelers basically gave him away. Too bad we couldn't get that deal. LOL

Nobody is taking OBJ. Damaged goods. Price tag too high. Browns would be lucky to get a bag of peanuts for this guy. He's done here in Cleveland. Landry, DPJ and Higgins are the guys going forward. I don't care what OBJ's Dad says. LOL

The best thing we can do is reduce his role in the offense... but we can't do that until DPJ gets healthy. Landry rebounding and being able to stay on the field probably wouldn't hurt either.

ESPN has a tweet embedded in the story below that I found interesting. I couldn't add the tweet to DT, sorry. I did copy the text below the link. In other news it looks like we cut Stanton - I wonder if Janovich or someone else is coming off the IR this week or if we're signing someone that was cut (Desean (please no), Jaylon Smith,...)

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32204033/nfl-trade-deadline-2021-all-rumors-news-deals-reaction

Browns, Saints discussed deal for OBJ

KimberLEY A. Martin
@ByKimberleyA
·
Nov 2, 2021
For now, OBJ remains in CLE … despite him not wanting to be there. #browns
KimberLEY A. Martin
@ByKimberleyA
I’m told there were discussions re: Odell going to the #Saints — but both sides couldn’t agree on a workable deal, given how much OBJ is owed the rest of the year.

Plus, there still is optimism in the #Browns building that OBJ can be a big part of their second-half playoff push
1:03 PM · Nov 2, 2021

The Saints have 1.4 mil in cap room. I seriously doubt this was a long discussion

You don't care that OBJs' father is corrrect?

IMO the damaged goods is Baker!

We would have had taken on the contract.

I disagree.

Plus, letting a father get involved only furthers and gap there was.

Didn't know he was a malcontent?

I think Landry is gone as well.

Higgins is the one without a contract after this year. If anybody else is "gone" it's him. Getting rid of Landry would be a death blow to this offense. If you're gonna do that you might as well trade Baker for picks, blow it all up, and start over.

Landry is the heart and soul of this team, at least fir the O.
I say give him a raise, let OBJ walk (not hating on him, it’s just not working out). Develop DPJ and Schwartz.

I do NOT want to let Jarvis go. He is one of our best players, period.

I'm shocked nobody has asked the obviously looming question this brings up. Would those peanuts be salted or unsalted?

I am not saying that the father is not without fault here, but the truth is the truth no matter how it is presented.

None of our WRs' are flourishing with Baker.

Fact is that WR's do not flourish in Kevin's offenses no matter who the QB is.

This is a valid point … OBJ was never going to be a 1,200 yard 15 TD guy with the way we have our team set up.

The fact that he’s turned into a 1 catch for 6 yards per game guy is unreal though lol

adam thielen and steffon diggs says hi.

Didn't one (or both) of those guys also throw a hissy-fit at one point?

Yeah Diggs wanted out of Minny very badly

yep. as soon as kirk cousins got there.

hmmm....

The fact is that no receiver is exactly flourishing with Baker @ QB.

He is on a pace to have all of 13 TD passes for the season.

Or as soon as Stefanski took over as offensive coordinator.

During the segment on ESPN, Diggs revealed what led to him skipping that practice last year and basically what led to him seeking a way out of the Twin Cities.

“(The Vikings) were kind of gearing towards a run-heavy (offense) at that time. I didn’t know it going in. I didn’t know it was going to be that way. They only would allow me to do so much. In my eyes, it wasn’t going to be in the best interest of my career.”


https://thevikingage.com/2020/12/14/stefon-diggs-admits-minnesota-vikings/

Interesting that Stefanski was offensive coordinator at MIN when Diggs demanded to be traded and now we have issues with OBJ. Is it the players or is it the scheme that refuses to consistently capitalize on the TE/WR talent? I'm not so sure it's a coincidence that Stefanski has had issues with 2 of the leagues best receivers. Obviously, Stefanski has set the base with positive results in Min and Cle. Does he have the capabilities to adjust his scheme and take the Browns to a championship level? History says "No" to this point.

I buy that story. The stats and stories about Diggs (and I thought Thielen as well, to a degree) agree with what we're seeing on the field now. Superstar receiver types just don't mesh well with Stefanski's system. I was under the impression that Stefanski wasn't a rigid system guy when he was coming here, but I'm pretty sure that's been said about pretty much every coach we've brought in and it's never true.

Did Stefanski similarly 'inherit' Diggs and Thielen like he did OBJ?

too you, steve, and oob:

this is why people need to really look at stefanski. look, he's our HC and i love how dominating we've been running the ball. but was on the vikings staff since '06. he was on the staff when thielen and diggs went off and had one of the best season for a WR duo in the league.


so thats why i can't wonder about the playcalling. the same short throws baker seems to throw are the same ones kirk cousins is doing since he got there. did anybody see some of the clips from the vikings/cowboys game? kirk cousins had guys wide open and yet throw the ball to double covered running backs or behind the LoS.

so either Stefanski doesn't trust baker like he clearly didnt trust Kirk, or that's his preferred style of play.

if so, thats fine. but while he inherited OBJ/Jarvis/Baker, those are 3 big time guys we drafted/signed/traded.

oh and for the record, our running back group is started to have dalvin cook kind of injuries. always in and out of the lineup.

history doesn't repeat, but it often rhymes...

I don't quite follow you on the RB injuries front, but otherwise all that 'crazy talk' doesn't really sound so crazy. I wanna see how these guys respond to all this noise when it matters.

The only year Stefanski was the full time OC (aside from a couple games at the end of 2018) was in 2019. That's the year everything blew up with Diggs with him wanting out.

Stefanski runs a run-heavy, ball control offense.

Also, Justin Jefferson has been lighting it up w/ Kirk Cousins as his QB with Klint Kubiak as the OC.

In the end, it's a multitude of reasons, but the bottom line is that it just has not worked out with OBJ and this offense.

The next few weeks will be interesting to see if "Baker and the offense are better without OBJ" theory proves to be true.

Stefanski joined the Vikings in 2006. From 2017-18, he coached the quarterbacks and added the role of interim offensive coordinator before being named the team's sole offensive coordinator in 2019 before coming to the Browns in 2020.

Thielen joined the Vikings in 2014. Interesting that in 16 games in 2018, Thielen caught 113 passes for 1373 yards. In 2019, after Stefanski took over OC duties, Thielen only played 10 games due to injury but his output was seriously lacking compared to 2018 with 30 receptions for 418 yards.

Diggs joined the Vikings in 2015. In 14 games started in 2018, Diggs caught 102 passes for 1021 yards. In 2019, after Stefanski took over OC duties, Diggs started 15 games and only had 63 receptions compared to 2018. Combined, Thielen and Diggs lost 122 receptions in 2019 compared 2018 and thus caused Diggs to demand a trade.

One other note, Cousins completed 425 passes in 2018 - in 2019 he only completed 307 on 162 less attempts from the previous year.

So, we're not seeing dynamic WR play because we're never going to see dynamic WR play here. Stefanski either can't, or refuses to, adapt to and fully utilize the personnel talents at his disposal.

THIS explains why our 4th quarters look the way they do. We're not playing to put teams away by burying them or even by doing what was successful in getting us to that point; we're committed to being a hamstrung and controlled offense.

I love Stefanski as our coach, but he CLEARLY needs to grow and adapt in how he uses and views the WR talent on his rosters.

Furthermore, if we KNOW we're not going to be using the WRs to their potential, then Berry, why haven't you traded that premier talent away for picks?

When your QB has a bum shoulder I don't think it's going to tell us much of anything or will prove anything true or untrue.

Clearly, you all do not recall Mike Zimmer demanding that they be more run oriented in Minnesota.

https://www.startribune.com/vikings...ccord-in-run-first-philosophy/559207682/

Yep...the perfect Catch 22. I'm afraid we won't know anymore at the end of the year than we do today.

Unless OBJ really was siphoning Baker's talent somehow.

Except that this was going on way before Baker got injured and into last year. Excuses are like azzholes, everyone has one. Stefanski is a one trick pony that has a scheme (successful) that focuses on running the ball. It's a great idea except that when you fall behind and need to score it is very prohibitive. Add to that fact that his premier receivers will not perform at the needed level because they are not included in the game plan. To this point I give Stefanski a B+ for what he's done with the Browns but that score will continue to drop each game he shows the continued failure to put teams away, run a 2-minute offense, or show the ability to come from behind because until he learns to do that as a coach - his tenure will be short lived.

The Browns should be set to be competitive for the Super Bowl for sure next year if not this year. However, unless they prove they can move the ball through the air consistently, we're not going to see them in the Super Bowl. This is still a passing league and will be for the foreseeable future. As a team, they must have the ability to move quickly through the air and the present scheme is not set up for that to happen. As a group, you can't just turn it on and off every second or third game. It needs to be a part of the game package every week. Great coaches make adjustments - Stefanski lacks that ability at this point and proved by his history over the last 2 1/2 years. I mean look at his track record, you can't be down 20 points with 2 quarters and 10 minutes left and have your QB only throw 19 passes from the point forward and expect to catch up.

The impact of those voodoo mind tricks are amazing as to the power they possess.

There was know lively discusion about this last season with a winning record .. Coincidence ? lol

Remember the first half of the Titans game last year? We were destroying them. And the passing game was front and center at all levels. Then came that dreadful second half.

Very confusing.

Edit: And O'dell was not on the field.

And Vrabel still had eight in the box until he was down 38-7. Craziest case of stubbornness by a coach that I've ever seen.