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Posted By: cfrs15 Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/07/22 05:04 PM
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/07/22 05:08 PM
Originally Posted by cfrs15


More than 24 hours before the deadline. Perhaps the FO assumed they were too far off to get something long-term by tomorrow??
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/07/22 05:09 PM
Ok, so he's definitely staying in the CLE!


https://www.spotrac.com/spots/projected-2022-nfl-tenders-franchise-tag-values-1349/

Tight End: $11M


That's a pretty big paycheck for The Chief.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/07/22 05:11 PM
Can't say I would have been surprised either way.
Posted By: Dave Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/07/22 05:13 PM
I believe the franchise tag for TEs is $11.8M. Does this mean Njoku's camp was looking for more than that?
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/07/22 05:15 PM
Originally Posted by Dave
I believe the franchise tag for TEs is $11.8M. Does this mean Njoku's camp was looking for more than that?

I think it is $10.8MM and often times it is about guaranteed dollars, not avg. per year.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/07/22 05:17 PM
I don't know that they were. There's a huge difference here. The franchise tag is a one year deal. A new contract would be a multi year deal. Committing to one year at 11.8 mil. is a lot different than committing to 11.8 mil. for four years. If you feel you need a player for "right now" you franchise him.
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/07/22 05:21 PM
j/c:

Three players also tendered w/ the Njoku news.

Tendered exclusive rights players (3):

WR Ja'Marcus Bradley

G Michael Dunn

OL Blake Hance

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/new...d-njoku-as-franchise-player-tender-three
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/07/22 05:21 PM
Good news!
Posted By: Bull_Dawg Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/07/22 05:46 PM
I'm glad that they want him back. Here's hoping that they can work out a longer contract that both sides are satisfied with. I'd prefer to avoid an acrimonious holdout.
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/07/22 05:53 PM


I agree with this take. If you end up signing Njoku long-term or just one year I suppose, you have to target him far, far more, especially in the RZ. If not, you are simply pissing away money.
Posted By: 79Jacketdog Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/07/22 05:53 PM
I like the fact that we are bringing him back , now if we would just put him to good use . Our offense has under utilized alot of talent .
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/07/22 05:57 PM
Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie


I agree with this take. If you end up signing Njoku long-term or just one year I suppose, you have to target him far, far more, especially in the RZ. If not, you are simply pissing away money.

He’ll probably be the #1 tight end in 2022 because Hooper is likely gone. That’ll bump him up the usage chart.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/07/22 06:01 PM
Buys them some additional time to get a long term deal done. Hopefully, they are able to work something out.
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/07/22 06:01 PM
random thoughts running in my head right now...

There are three things that limit opportunities:

1. too much talent to spread the ball to
2. a really poor offense
3. a really good offense

Our offense definitely spreads the ball around.
That much can change, but whether we're looking at the really good 2020 offense or the really ugly 2021 offense, the problem remains that opportunities were limited, but for opposite reasons.

Last year, we had trouble staying on the field and extending drives. In 2020, we all too frequently went down the field and scored in just a handful of plays. It's great to get points, and that is absolutely Goal #1 at all times, but it does still limit touches.


Just sort of amusing myself with the double-edged sword of statistics.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/07/22 06:10 PM
Does this spell the departure of Hooper? Seems like a lot to pay two TE's - $10M+ each?
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/07/22 06:16 PM
Departure of Hooper, or not as splashy of a WR FA signing. Something, somewhere has to give, right?
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/07/22 06:16 PM
Originally Posted by mgh888
Does this spell the departure of Hooper? Seems like a lot to pay two TE's - $10M+ each?

Hooper has got to be toast.
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/07/22 06:45 PM
Originally Posted by mgh888
Does this spell the departure of Hooper? Seems like a lot to pay two TE's - $10M+ each?

Well, we paid 2 overrated/overpriced WRs a total of $30M in 2021 so who knows?

Secondly, it might not even play out like this. Njoku could strike a long-term deal paying him a lower amount in the first year. Or they could restructure Hooper as well.

I think there are a few options on the table to consider.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/07/22 07:17 PM
Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie
Originally Posted by mgh888
Does this spell the departure of Hooper? Seems like a lot to pay two TE's - $10M+ each?

Well, we paid 2 overrated/overpriced WRs a total of $30M in 2021 so who knows?

Secondly, it might not even play out like this. Njoku could strike a long-term deal paying him a lower amount in the first year. Or they could restructure Hooper as well.

I think there are a few options on the table to consider.

I agree. Fairly good chance Hooper is not back, but it could work to where the Browns absorb his salary one more year.

Another option is working out a trade. The market is thin for TEs and Berry might be able to find a team will take Hooper for a 5th or 6th round pick. 4th round pick if Berry can get that preacher running the show for the Texans on the phone.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/07/22 07:36 PM
Posted By: steve0255 Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/07/22 08:39 PM
So, Berry puts the franchise tag on Njoku for a production level of an average of 30 receptions and 3 TD's per year over the last 5-years. The dead cap hit on Hooper is 11.25M if they release him and 13.25M if they keep him on the roster. No matter how they cut it, Hooper is going to cost them either 11.25M this year if cut now or over the spread out over the next 2-years if cut after June 1. Kelce KCC is scheduled to make 8.855M in 2022 and the Browns are now going to be paying two guys 20% or more each than arguably the best TE in the NFL for 30 something receptions each. That's a head scratcher.

Considering either thru the draft, FA, or trades - the Browns have zero starting WR's, they have zero starting DT's, they have to address DE and LB, and they are in serious need of OL depth. After franchising Njoku, the Browns now currently have a Team Cap Space: $18,020,115. Certainly a whole lot of holes to fill to be dropping 2 salaries on TE's that have them getting paid more than the #1 TE in the NFL. All that money for less than 40 receptions a year - sure makes you want to think - Hmmmmmm.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/07/22 08:58 PM
You may need to wait till the air clears.

They can still sign him. And other things maybe in the works.

To early to jump.

Njoku has improved overall as a player which includes blocking. He also maybe in for a bigger role going forward.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/07/22 09:00 PM
Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie
Secondly, it might not even play out like this. Njoku could strike a long-term deal paying him a lower amount in the first year. Or they could restructure Hooper as well.

I think there are a few options on the table to consider.

Good points.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/07/22 09:43 PM
If we cut Hooper with a June 1st designation and Njoku plays on the tag then we will have the same amount of money committed to the tight end position in 2022 as we did in 2021.
Posted By: steve0255 Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/07/22 10:03 PM
If you were Hooper, would you restructure your contract knowing the team is trying to get rid of you? Hooper is still owed 11.25M in 2022 of his guaranteed contract money that the Browns spread out in yearly signing bonuses and option bonuses. The Browns will have to pay the guaranteed money no matter what they intend to do. You can bet that the Browns have no intention of extending him and giving up guaranteed money is just plain foolish. This is an ugly situation and has just been compounded by franchising Njoku. After what the Browns did with Hooper the last two years, his market is obviously low. Why would he even consider giving the Browns a restructure after franchising Njoku? If the Browns keep Hooper, he gets his 13.25m. If they cut him, he gets his 11.25M guarantee still owed him. Either way - the Browns are going to be paying Hooper in 2022.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/07/22 10:07 PM
Read my post again. I don’t think you understand what I said.
Posted By: steve0255 Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/07/22 10:23 PM
True but then you have dead cap on Hooper in 2023 with other players coming due. It doesn't matter how you slice it, the guaranteed money is going to be paid and the Browns just franchised a player that had less receptions than Hooper in 2021 and has averaged only 30 receptions per year and 3 TD's for the 5-years he's been on the Browns. My question is are the Browns going to give Schwartz 6-years to get up to speed at his position? How about Mack Wilson or Hance or Hudson? Don't those players deserve 6 years to show what they can do? My question is: Is Njoku (10.8M Tag in 2022) a better blocker and receiver than Kelce (8.855M in 2022) or Andrews (9.657M in 2022)? Njoku couldn't even carry those guys jockstraps yet the Browns are paying him more? I certainly hope Berry has some grand plan in the works because this is a dumber deal than they gave Hooper. Especially considering Stefanski runs a run first scheme.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/07/22 10:27 PM
The deal they gave Hooper was dumb (especially with benefit of hindsight). There's no reason to compound that bad decision by letting Njoku walk because you're overpaying Hooper. Franchise tag could just be the FO buying time to get Njoku under a contract. Njoku has improved across the board, and can be a weapon in the passing game. For the system that we run, he should be featured more. I don't know why he wasn't featured more this year, but with the money they've committed, that problem should be rectified.
Posted By: steve0255 Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/07/22 10:33 PM
We'll see.............IMHO, people will be screaming because of his lack of production early and often.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/07/22 10:33 PM
Comparing Njoku’s cap hit in 2022 to better players either shows you lack an understanding of how contracts work or are completely dishonest.

Not all players should be viewed the same. My guess is that the teams Njoku as an ascending player as he has five years of experience and has not entered his age 26 season.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/08/22 12:17 AM
Those are the key points. Age 26 and ascending.

Njoku is in their plans for the future. His past was how he got to where he now is.

I think they may cut Hooper and swallow it. Njoku will get more targets and be on the field more than in the past.

Bryant will be in the mix. What they do with Hooper? Maybe they still value the guy as a blocker? Maybe the entire passing attack is being refreshed.

Until all the dust settles and we see the roster for 2022. I will let Berry work.
Posted By: devicedawg Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/08/22 12:31 AM
This is "keeping our own."
Posted By: bugs Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/08/22 01:30 AM
Originally Posted by cfrs15
If we cut Hooper with a June 1st designation and Njoku plays on the tag then we will have the same amount of money committed to the tight end position in 2022 as we did in 2021.

To expand on your post...

Quote
From @CleveTA on Twitter:

Tagging Njoku at $10.8M + dead money if/when they cut Hooper of $3.75M= $14.5M. Last yr they paid Hooper & Njoku a combined $14.3M. Lets say they slide in Bryant as the #2 TE & draft a TE in middle rounds ($900k), the Browns will be spending a much lower % of the cap than last yr
Posted By: steve0255 Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/08/22 02:16 AM
Says the guy who in another post is talking about WR free agent tiers and the costs of each tier. I understand exactly how contracts work. Hooper has his contract because he was a 2 time all pro averaging over 70 receptions per season. Stats Hooper had in two years that it has taken Njoku 5-years to attain. Now those are the facts. It is also a fact that Stefanski has cut the number of targets to all receivers since he came to Cleveland.

Njoku had 19 receptions in all of 2020 and 36 in 2021 for a grand total of 54 receptions in 2-years that just got him a 10.8M franchise tag. Hooper had 71 and 75 receptions the 2-years before coming to Cleveland - more than 91 total receptions over what Njoku has produced. If you're comparing apples to apples, Hooper has had 46 receptions in 2020 and 38 receptions in 2021 or 30 more than Njoku during the same time period. If Hooper hasn't earned his salary over the last 2-years (which by the way - Hooper was only 26 in his first year with the Browns) then how in the hell can anyone say a guy going into his 6th year with the other TE having 30 more receptions over that period is ascending and justify that lower TE to a top tier TE contract?

I don't disagree that Hooper has a bad deal when the Browns are going to run a scheme that does not feature passing in any way. Signing another TE to a similar deal when there's no indication that the scheme the Browns are going to run is any different than it was the last 2-years is a plain waste of money. It will be very very interesting to see how the Browns address the WR situation now. It may tell us a lot more about the direction of this team.

Let's not forget - the Browns currently have zero starting DT's, only 1 starting DE, LB needs, and offensive line depth issues that also need to be addressed.
Posted By: Bull_Dawg Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/08/22 02:42 AM
J/C I think Njoku might get more flex snaps to replace some of Landry's snaps. Stefanski seems to love Hooper. He and Berry have been much less effusive about Landry (or at least using past tense) and we'd get 15M in cap room if we release him instead of Hooper.

They like Hooper, and we're paying him either way, so I don't see him going anywhere.

Plus, I wanna watch Njoku bully some DBs.
Posted By: bugs Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/08/22 02:42 AM
steve0255, IMO, the Browns are moving on from Njoku after this year. They didn't want to commit to a long-term deal. Bryant will complete his third year. They draft another mid-round TE this year. Signing Hooper was a stopgap. I don't think they thought Njoku would play well last year. Njoku surprised them.

IMO, the goal here is to be a factory of pass catchers (WR/TE). If they land one great pass catcher, they constantly surround him with good talent. Having a plethora of offensive playmakers allows them to control the clock.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/08/22 02:58 AM


That’s. . . not great.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/08/22 03:01 AM
Originally Posted by bugs
steve0255, IMO, the Browns are moving on from Njoku after this year. They didn't want to commit to a long-term deal.

Njoku supposedly has a long term offer on the table.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/08/22 03:01 AM
What wide receiver tiers?
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/08/22 03:32 AM
Originally Posted by oobernoober
Departure of Hooper, or not as splashy of a WR FA signing. Something, somewhere has to give, right?

Doesn't that depend on rolled over cap space spending? Where do we stand with that? And I would think Hooper is gone, too. Bryant and Carlson are both serviceable. Why do we need 6 TEs on the roster? I could see 4, maybe 5. The other two, not named Hooper,
are practice squad players.

On the long term deal, another thing might be that he simply he wants too much, and we're going to kick the can in hopes of drafting his replacement? Thinking they don't want to tie big money up long term at this position makes a lot of sense, IMO. Drafting TEs annually keeps the price much lower at the position. Combine that with KS TE love, having 6 on the roster at once, the need to either pay Mayfield or wheel and deal for a QB, and it really makes sense. I'm actually thinking they want to reload as many as they can this year to make a run, so Hooper might stay. And if they don't succeed, Njoku and more big names looking for deals will be gone. We have a one-year window, this year, then we either eat big salaries and play Moneyball with the other positions, or draft replacements. The Haslams think they have their coach. AB and KS might want to make wholesale changes if this team can't get to the post season in 22.

Reloading for a run makes more sense for the upcoming Mayfield decisions than rolling with rookie (cheaper) WRs and TEs this year.
Posted By: bugs Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/08/22 04:09 AM
Originally Posted by cfrs15
What wide receiver tiers?

I could be totally wrong too! It's just a hunch.

DPJ and Schwartz to start. I think they add another speed receiver in this draft. Speed is needed to provide space for the short pass and run games.

I look at KC, NE, and San Fransico having a clutch receiver and TE. They are mixed with complementary pieces.

I still believe Landry is the focal receiver until they find his replacement. If not Landry, who are they getting for less until said receiver develops?

Njoku? He should be Mr. Dependable. He must be even better than last year. As for his contract, I guess we shall see. I like David, but I'm not seeing the Kittle or Kelce type. I don't mean that level. I mean being as dependable. David disappears in games.

I believe Berry and Stefanski are building a ball-control-style offense that plays complementary football to the defense and special teams. I think OBJ leaving has set the plan back. The receiver room was something that was to evolve over time.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/08/22 04:10 AM
Originally Posted by bugs
Originally Posted by cfrs15
What wide receiver tiers?

I could be totally wrong too! It's just a hunch.

DPJ and Schwartz to start. I think they add another speed receiver in this draft. Speed is needed to provide space for the short pass and run games.

I look at KC, NE, and San Fransico having a clutch receiver and TE. They are mixed with complementary pieces.

I still believe Landry is the focal receiver until they find his replacement. If not Landry, who are they getting for less until said receiver develops?

Njoku? He should be Mr. Dependable. He must be even better than last year. As for his contract, I guess we shall see. I like David, but I'm not seeing the Kittle or Kelce type. I don't mean that level. I mean being as dependable. David disappears in games.

I believe Berry and Stefanski are building a ball-control-style offense that plays complementary football to the defense and special teams. I think OBJ leaving has set the plan back. The receiver room was something that was to evolve over time.

I am completely missing something.
Posted By: bugs Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/08/22 04:19 AM
I don't believe Njoku is signed to a long-term deal. I think they may pay him and Landry until they develop players.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/08/22 04:25 AM
Originally Posted by bugs
I don't believe Njoku is signed to a long-term deal. I think they may pay him and Landry until they develop players.

Njoku is not signed to a long term deal. He was just offered a long term deal.

Landry is going to be cut.
Posted By: steve0255 Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/08/22 10:38 AM
WR Tiers - #1, #2, #3 and so on. D. Adams is a #1 WR. He's earned that position ranking because of his performance on the field. If he becomes a FA - his asking price would and should be at the top or very close to the top of the WR market because his play has earned that level. A Russell Cage is a 2nd or 3rd tier receiver. He might want to be a top tier but his performance to date has him a #2 or #3 receiver. Just because the Browns sign a guy like Cage to be their #1 WR doesn't automatically make Cage a top tier WR. The Browns surely wouldn't be paying Cage the same money an Adams would demand just because he's the Browns designated #1 WR. Njoku has not earned the consideration of getting top tier money at the TE position.

IMHO, this franchise tag is going to scare off WR free agent candidates. It's sending a signal that Stefanski is intending to run multiple 2-3 TE sets again in 2022 which is going to strongly effect the WR usage within the scheme. I hope I'm wrong and the new league year is just starting but very cautious about what I see happening in the early going.
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/08/22 11:34 AM
Originally Posted by cfrs15


That’s. . . not great.
Not surprised by this one bit. First, they don't have any solid receivers under contract assuming they cut Landry as of today. Second, whether you cut him on June 1 or in next year's offseason, you are still eating $7.5MM in 2023. So, why not just keep him and try to get some performance out of him? And also, in a post June cut, yes you save $9.5MM in 2022 (and still eating $7.5MM next year), but by June, I'm assuming you've spent the majority of your cap money in the FA and draft. I guess there is always the possibility of signing a vet cut in training camp or trading for one just before the season but do you really need that lump sum then?

The contract sucks for a player who has wildly underperformed so far. I think a restructure is still on the table.
Posted By: steve0255 Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/08/22 01:28 PM
Jason_OTC
@Jason_OTC
·
9h
If the #browns keep Hooper and Njoku on their contracts as is they will have $24.181 million in cap charges for their two tight ends. The two combined for 74 receptions for 820 yards in 2021.

That's $327,000 per reception and $29,489 per receiving yard going into 2022. To put that in perspective - Kelce's 2022 cap charge is 8.855M for 92 receptions and 1125 yards in 2021. That works out to $96,000 per reception and $7,871 per receiving yard going into 2022. The Browns are currently slated to pay 3.4 times more for every reception and 3.75 times more for every receiving yard by Hooper and Njoku than Kelce is scheduled to be paid in 2022.

It's hard to imagine the Browns being able to put a competitive product on the field when you're paying 3 to 4 times the productive rate for a single position on the team. Using Kelce as a guideline, Hooper and Njoku would have to combine to have 313 receptions for 4,219 receiving yards to break even for dollars spent for production received out of the position as it currently stands. Those are unattainable numbers combined with an unrealistic cost.

The numbers are what they are - the Browns currently are slated to grossly overpay for the TE position in 2022. Assuming Landry gets released, the Browns have no #1 WR or #2 WR, no starting DT's, only 1 starting DE, a weakness at LB and poor OL depth that needs to be addressed. It makes you wonder if this over investment into the TE position is in the best interest of the Browns going forward. Time will tell..................
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/08/22 01:43 PM
Basing anything off our offense in 2021 would be pointless.

Injured QB playing like the 32nd best QB in the NFL.
Injuries to RB's.
Injuries all along the OL.
Injuries to WR's.
Offensive production that was nothing like 2020.
Based on 2021 Baker is grossly overpaid at $18M per.

You got to look at the player, ask if you believe in him, what direction is he trending, what do you believe he's worth to the team or the cost to replace him. Clearly the Browns FO believe in Njoku and it has ZERO to do with 2021 stats.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/08/22 02:29 PM
I would hope that any worries about who we do/don't currently have on the roster to catch passes is mitigated by this specific FA and draft (good for WRs). I, for one, would love for Hooper to be cut so those reps can go to others, but maybe the FO decided the $$ they get back just aren't enough. He's more valuable to us taking up a roster spot than to spend the money in cutting him just to spend a little more money to go and get another TE (even if it's a mid-rounder draft pick).
Posted By: Bull_Dawg Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/08/22 03:29 PM
Originally Posted by steve0255
Jason_OTC
@Jason_OTC
·
9h
If the #browns keep Hooper and Njoku on their contracts as is they will have $24.181 million in cap charges for their two tight ends. The two combined for 74 receptions for 820 yards in 2021.

That's $327,000 per reception and $29,489 per receiving yard going into 2022. To put that in perspective - Kelce's 2022 cap charge is 8.855M for 92 receptions and 1125 yards in 2021. That works out to $96,000 per reception and $7,871 per receiving yard going into 2022. The Browns are currently slated to pay 3.4 times more for every reception and 3.75 times more for every receiving yard by Hooper and Njoku than Kelce is scheduled to be paid in 2022.

It's hard to imagine the Browns being able to put a competitive product on the field when you're paying 3 to 4 times the productive rate for a single position on the team. Using Kelce as a guideline, Hooper and Njoku would have to combine to have 313 receptions for 4,219 receiving yards to break even for dollars spent for production received out of the position as it currently stands. Those are unattainable numbers combined with an unrealistic cost.

The numbers are what they are - the Browns currently are slated to grossly overpay for the TE position in 2022. Assuming Landry gets released, the Browns have no #1 WR or #2 WR, no starting DT's, only 1 starting DE, a weakness at LB and poor OL depth that needs to be addressed. It makes you wonder if this over investment into the TE position is in the best interest of the Browns going forward. Time will tell..................

I'm not a huge fan of Hooper's contract, but this looks like cherry picked facts to support a conclusion that the guy had already made. Kelce signed a backloaded contract and plays as basically a primary target/wide receiver in a pass happy offense. If we compared Hooper's stats and contract to those of Jonnu Smith, we'd be getting a "bargain." Kelce might be the best "bargain" as far as "productive rate" in the sport currently.

Did we "overpay" Hooper? Absolutely. But we were a laughingstock with no proven TEs bringing in a coach with a scheme that uses lots of TEs. To get a guy in his prime coming off repeat pro bowls to come to the Browns in the state we were, we had to pay him. Given the circumstances, Berry did what he had to do.

"Grossly overpay" is just standard Twitter era attention seeking hyperbole.

We're in fine shape to have a perfectly competitive roster. "Can we get/stay healthy?" is the bigger question. Can we finally start developing draft picks (or just make better picks in the first place) so we don't need to bring in high price free agents to be competitive?

"Time will tell.........."
Posted By: steve0255 Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/08/22 03:48 PM
You can't ignore 2021 for Njoku because that's the year he supposedly shined and now should be looked at as an ascending player. If you're going to ignore 2021 (I agree by the way), then you're saying that Njoku earned the franchise tag for producing 19 receptions in 2020 when the Browns were a playoff team. At his production level over the first 4-years (eliminating 2021 because it is pointless as you say), the Browns just franchised a guy for 10.9M that contributed only 19 receptions during their 2020 playoff year and has a grand total of 112 receptions over first 4-years for 1,279 yards and 11 TD's if you eliminate 2021.

Besides those facts, Njoku has a serious issue with drops. His percentage by year is 2017 8.6%, 2018 12.5% (league high number of drops for TE's), 2019 28.6% (league high drop pct for TE's), 2020 6.9% and the pointless year of 2021 5.7% (3 drops on 57 targets - 8th highest pct for TE's in 2021).

The little-used tight end will now get around $10.9 million in 2022 with Cleveland applying its franchise tag to keep him on the roster. Njoku in 2021 ran a route on just half of the Browns' passing plays and was targeted on a meager 19 percent of his routes. 5.7% of those targets were dropped by Njoku further hurting his value to the team. In his five years with the Browns, Njoku, 25, has only two games in which he's seen more than seven targets. The Browns, who use two tight end sets as much as any team, will have more than $22 million tied up in Hooper and Njoku this season as it stands.
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/08/22 03:50 PM
Originally Posted by Bull_Dawg
Did we "overpay" Hooper? Absolutely. But we were a laughingstock with no proven TEs bringing in a coach with a scheme that uses lots of TEs. To get a guy in his prime coming off repeat pro bowls to come to the Browns in the state we were, we had to pay him. Given the circumstances, Berry did what he had to do.

Plus, there's the aspect where the laws of Supply & Demand come into play every free agency period. He was the best TE available, by far, that offseason.
Eric Ebron got $12 mil per year in that same offseason. Hunter Henry was franchised.

The consensus is that we overpaid, but the reality is we paid what was essentially a very fair market value for the best available at a position of need at the time.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/08/22 05:25 PM
I am not saying he earned the tag in 2019 - no.

I am saying the Browns organization looked at the player Njoku has become - what they think he will continue to develop into and the cost to replace him with something as good ... and made a business decision. That decision has nothing to do with his stats in 2021 either.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/08/22 05:39 PM
Originally Posted by mgh888
I am not saying he earned the tag in 2019 - no.

I am saying the Browns organization looked at the player Njoku has become - what they think he will continue to develop into and the cost to replace him with something as good ... and made a business decision. That decision has nothing to do with his stats in 2021 either.

It's not hard to see the argument that Njoku's second contract should be among the elite, but the FO better have an ironclad reason (if for nobody else but themselves) as to why his skills haven't translated to better numbers over the past 2 years. We love to complain about Hooper (I do), but at the end of the day, Hooper played more snaps and caught more balls than Njoku. There should be an explanation for that.
Posted By: steve0255 Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/08/22 06:41 PM
My point exactly, if you're going to bitch and moan about the level of play from Hooper and the pay that goes with that then you should be beside yourself that the Browns just used the franchise tag on a player that played less snaps, caught fewer balls, and has a history of poor performance and drops to such a deal for less than 2/3 the production Hooper has provided the last 2 years. Hooper 84/780/7 - Njoku 55/688/6
Posted By: Bull_Dawg Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/08/22 07:01 PM
Hooper had 53 yards in his most productive game last season. Njoku had almost triple that in his.

It's a big play league, and that's not Hooper's game. Fortunately for him, he can help spring others while also providing a release valve.

There are different styles of TEs. It's not an apples to apples comparison.
Posted By: DCDAWGFAN Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/08/22 07:10 PM
Originally Posted by Dave
I believe the franchise tag for TEs is $11.8M. Does this mean Njoku's camp was looking for more than that?
I think what it means is that our passing game was pretty subpar much of last year. Baker was hurt, our TEs as a group didn't produce anywhere close to what was expected when we thought we had 3 good ones and it would be a real strength and they are buying themselves a year to figure out what the long term plan is between Njoku, Hooper, and Bryant...
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/08/22 08:01 PM
I'm not sure which you're complaining about the most. That we actually signed Njoku or the fact you think we should cut Hooper by paying him not to be here?
Posted By: Swish Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/08/22 08:04 PM
chief needs targets. i get that we spread the ball, but Stefanski still has to balance that with getting our most talented players the football early.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/08/22 09:24 PM
Originally Posted by Bull_Dawg
Hooper had 53 yards in his most productive game last season. Njoku had almost triple that in his.

It's a big play league, and that's not Hooper's game. Fortunately for him, he can help spring others while also providing a release valve.

There are different styles of TEs. It's not an apples to apples comparison.

Hard to have big plays when you catch and fall down in the same motion every single time.
Posted By: Hammer Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/08/22 09:48 PM
He has mastered that...
Posted By: steve0255 Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/08/22 09:54 PM
Cutting Hooper with his dead cap would absolutely be foolish. Paying Njoku on an extension or the franchise tag is equally as foolish since he's been out performed by Hooper no matter how bad people think Hooper has played. If the Browns ran a 13 scheme Hooper numbers would be more in line with what they paid him for but running 22 or 31 sets reduces the amount of targets so because of that - Hooper's production and contract are bad. Signing Njoku or using the franchise tag is even a bigger mistake because the plays are not going to be there to warrant the price. The Browns just compounded the problem by now having 2 TE's grossly over payed. A TE making 30 something receptions per year should not be making 10.9M to 13M per year. A player that has had only 2 games in 5-years where he caught 7 or more passes in a game shouldn't be your franchised tagged player either.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/08/22 10:04 PM
Factor: Njoku is 26 and you do not know what the offense will look like this year.

The contract is based upon going forward and what is expected that includes blocking.

Posted By: FATE Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/08/22 10:06 PM
Originally Posted by Swish
chief needs targets. i get that we spread the ball, but Stefanski still has to balance that with getting our most talented players the football early.
This is the big mystery.

Njoku went 7-7 for 149 and a TD against the Chargers last year.

It took the next 7+ games to equal that yardage.

From there he finished the year with 13 targets in 4 games.


We drafted him for his upside and athletic ability and have basically done everything possible to stifle it. In the meantime he's become a much better blocker and has gone from "hit the JUGS" to sure-handed.

Figure it out this year... or hire JAG for 3.5M per year and save yourself a boatload of money.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/08/22 10:07 PM
Originally Posted by bonefish
Factor: Njoku is 26 and you do not know what the offense will look like this year.

The contract is based upon going forward and what is expected that includes blocking.


No. NFL contracts are only based on past performance. There is never any projection involved.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/08/22 10:33 PM
So when they are in negotiations about signing him. They don't discuss his role going forward?

If it was all his past performance then why not pay him for his past performance?
Posted By: FATE Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/08/22 10:42 PM
Originally Posted by cfrs15
Originally Posted by bonefish
Factor: Njoku is 26 and you do not know what the offense will look like this year.

The contract is based upon going forward and what is expected that includes blocking.


No. NFL contracts are only based on past performance. There is never any projection involved.
Unless you hire Master P as your agent.


[Linked Image from media0.giphy.com]
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/08/22 10:49 PM
Originally Posted by bonefish
So when they are in negotiations about signing him. They don't discuss his role going forward?

If it was all his past performance then why not pay him for his past performance?


Those are great questions.
Posted By: steve0255 Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/09/22 02:18 AM
That is the whole point of the conversation. Hooper was paid based on his past performance: 2 years in a row selected to the Pro Bowl, over 70 receptions each year and averaged over 700 yards receiving per year. He was a highly sought after TE and his contract was based on the need of the highest bidder. Naturally, the Browns talked with him about their plans but the expectation most certainly was that Hooper would bring the same type of production to the Browns. IMHO, I most certainly doubt the Browns ever talked about cutting his targets by over 30% or that the passing offense as a whole would be reduced across the board. Just a note: it's been stated that the Browns were forced to get Hooper and sign him to that large deal because the Browns were a laughingstock with no proven TEs bringing in a coach with a scheme that uses lots of TEs. To get a guy in his prime coming off repeat pro bowls to come to the Browns in the state we were, we had to pay him. Given the circumstances, Berry did what he had to do. That may be true but Njoku was the starting TE at that time and they deemed he needed replaced.

Fast forward 2-years and now the Browns are paying franchise tag money to a player (Njoku) that just two years earlier signed Hooper to replace. Njoku's past performance for his deal has risen to the level of 55 receptions over the last 2-years and 688 yards receiving. Now that 2-year total doesn't even add up to one of the years that Hooper brought to the table when the Browns went after him yet the Browns are paying top TE dollar for Njoku's services. IMHO, it's a total misconception to think that after 5-years of below par production that suddenly Njoku is going to become a top 5 TE. Let's not forget, in the 2-years that Hooper has been on the team, he has outperformed Njoku in every facet of the game at TE and has provided less production each year than Hooper.

The bottom line is that unless Stefanski has plans to change his scheme, he intends to run a 2-3 TE offense that will feature two TE's making over 10.9M each for 50% at best production. That 10.9M the Browns used to tag Njoku could have been used for a starting DT of which the Browns currently have none!
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/09/22 02:25 AM
I know this might be shocking to you but we still have cap space (and will have more in a few days) and will be able to sign players.
Posted By: steve0255 Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/09/22 01:58 PM
Please grow up and add something to the conversation. Having x amount of cash to sign players was not the point of the comment. Using that money in a smart way was what was implied. IMHO, spending 10.9M on a player that has never been close to what a #1 TE should be is wasteful. That money could have been used to address other areas. 10.9M for a part-time player when you are already locked into paying that type of money for the other PT player whether he's on the team or not seems foolish to this fan. And since contracts or tags are based on what you have produced on the field and the hope that those numbers will be equal to or better with a new deal - paying 10.9M for an average of 30 receptions over the last 5-years is grossly over-paying a player for what he is bringing to the table from his past performance. IMHO, it's a very very bad deal and is postponing what eventually will happen - a divorce well past due.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/09/22 02:57 PM
It's perspective. As long as we have the cash to do what we need/want to do, then this whole logjam at TE is just a bump in the road.
Posted By: Bull_Dawg Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/09/22 03:36 PM
Let's see what he does in a season where the team's plans for the offense don't include OBJ (and might not include Landry.) Maybe they plan on giving him more opportunities which will merit his pay check.

We're not exactly bursting with pass catching weapons at the moment. It doesn't make sense to let a guy in his prime (he's only 25) go when he's shown he is capable of making explosive plays (See last years Chargers game.)

They like TEs. If they didn't bring him back, who were they going to replace him with?

All your talk of his lack of receptions doesn't account for his value as a blocker or the way defenses approach defending him which can open things up for other players.

Signing players for what they've done isn't the purpose of NFL contracts. You're trying to maximize value with what you think they can and will do going forward, while also maintaining a roster that can run what you want to run. They want to run multiple TE sets. They feel they are unlikely to get one better than Njoku at that price point. The cap just went up a healthy chunk, ~$11M could end up being a bargain. Kittle got $15M/yr while the cap was depressed due to COVID. The next round of contracts are liable to go higher.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/09/22 03:44 PM
I agree. You can't expect the same production out of a TE if you are spreading the chances 3 ways.
If people are expecting 70-80 receptions with yardage totals over 700 yards as it stands today, they better think again.

On other teams you have 1 TE catching 90% of the chances with 1 other TE who might catch 15 passes all season.
Posted By: FATE Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/09/22 04:22 PM
Originally Posted by Ballpeen
On other teams you have 1 TE catching 90% of the chances with 1 other TE who might catch 15 passes all season.
I'm really starting to think that is a much more sustainable model, salary cap and scheme-wise.
Posted By: steve0255 Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/09/22 04:26 PM
Then you don't pay the guy like he's going to get 70-80 receptions for 30-40 tops. You don't pay a player top wage for a 1-game bust out that then takes the next 7 games to equal that total of 1. Or a paying top tier pay for a player that only gets targeted 13 times in the last 4 games. If the intention is still to run 2 to 3 TE sets 50% of the plays as in 2021, then it's absolutely nuts to be paying two TE's top tier money for 1/3 or less of the targets to be split between them. Hooper was brought in to replace a totally ineffective Njoku in the first place. I can say with total confidence that Hooper was never told nor did he even dream that coming to Cleveland after 2 consecutive Pro Bowl nods that his targets would be cut by more than 30% coming to Cleveland. Fast forward two years and Hooper is getting more plays, more receptions, and still out performing Njoku even with the massive reduced work load yet the Browns intend to sign Njoku to a 10.9M top tier TE franchise tag. A tag for a player that hasn't come close in any of the last 3 years of putting anything close to what Hooper brought to the table when the Browns went out and got him. People can continue to live in ferry land hoping Njoku might get more than the 2 games in 5 years where he caught 7 or more passes but his well documented history shows that that hope is a wish and a dream. It's a bad deal and they are grossly over paying Njoku for what he's done and what he will bring to the table in the future.
Posted By: WSU Willie Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/09/22 06:13 PM
Is one of the guardrails something like:

Don't overpay for potential?

Maybe not...but I'm thinking so.
Posted By: Bull_Dawg Re: Browns franchise tag David Njoku - 03/10/22 03:09 AM
Originally Posted by WSU Willie
Is one of the guardrails something like:

Don't overpay for potential?

Maybe not...but I'm thinking so.

I think you're thinking of "don't pay for depth." Potential doesn't show up on the sheet that has gone around.

Hopefully this means Njoku gets starter reps. thumbsup
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