There is this new report that Jarvis will decide between the Saints and the Browns

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/arti...choose_between_2_teams/s1_16748_37424692

I really hope he returns. I am a big fan.

There have been times when I wondered how much is left? I have seen plays where he looks really slow.

But Jarvis is a pros pro. He brings so much to the table. On this team with guys like Schwartz, Bradley, and DPJ. Jarvis can help those guys.

Cooper is a polished professional. A true number one. Precise route runner. A excellent receiver who should click with DW. Bringing Jarvis back will give him all that underneath space. Jarvis is so savvy. He knows where to find catches. Once he sees the coverage Jarvis will know the options to use off his tree.

Besides he is tough as nails. He has been physically injured for two years. He has enough in the tank to help this team. I believe DW will find him.

So hell yes Jarvis. I will warm a seat for you come on back.

I'll welcome Jarvis on a $2-$3M one-year contract w/ production incentives. This guy has to be one the most overrated players in recent Browns' history.

I agree. He seems old for his age. I have mixed emotions on bringing him back. I want it to be because he is a good player more than because he is a good guy.

Like Baker, the RB's, DPJ, the OL ... I think Jarvis was impacted by injury significantly last year. I think he tried to come back too soon which made him look worse. I don't think he is worth the $15M he was due - I think he's worth more than the $2-3M plus incentives mentioned above (depending on the incentives and how obtainable). Something to consider - DW doesn't seem to be a loud/vocal leader from what I have seen, Chubb isn't, I don't believe Cooper is ... part of what Jarvis brings in addition to great hands and ability is his feistiness. Someone posted the other day about the Browns missing some "nasty" on the team ... Jarvis would bring a little of that attitude to the O if he comes back. Two years - $6-7m per would seem to be about where I would peg him - or add a third year but make it cap friendly to cut him if he is indeed slowing down.

I'm the poster preaching "nasty", and I'll keep doing it until we find some. Between the x's and o's, schemes and philosophies, analytics and how we grade upside and value... it's definitely a "missing link".

Good post. Just about where I stand, although I would be willing to bump that near 8M per year if necessary, if it fits the structure of our near-future financial plans.

I'd love to have Jarvis back. I think many here severely underrate his value on the field... and his value in the locker room speaks volumes.

I don't disagree. I am not saying I don't want him, but vocal leader isn't one of the reasons to keep him. Coaches are vocal leaders. Chubb is a leader no matter if he doesn't say much.

I might want him back, but I don't want him back because he was a guy I latched on to watching Hard Knocks 3-4 years ago.

I'm THE biggest Landry hater on this board based on what we paid him, so I'm happy to take the brunt of the backlash. I'm ok with it because I've been proven right.

The "value" in the locker room is such a cop out, IMO. That sort of thing is not quantifiable. His contract was based on on-field performance and he never lived up to it. Never.

I'm cool with him coming back if his value is commensurate with the contract. I think the FO is too.

Landry ran a 4.77 40 eight years ago. He is nothing more than a league average slot receiver at this point. I wouldn’t pay him much more than the minimum.

Experience counts. Jarvis made five pro bowls.

That is not an accident. His numbers are there for those who wish to look.

I will let Berry handle the money. He was not going to make $15. I don't know what his dollar market value is. He may not be what he once was.

When you hit his age with recent injury history. You become a one year contract guy.

However, with this offense and the role he would play. Jarvis could be a pleasant surprise.

So Jerry Rice speed? Man, that's terrible.

Well hey, at least he has the hands to match!

False equivalence. If Landry’s production was close to what Rice’s was then this would not be a conversation because:

#1 - The Dolphins would have never traded Landry.

and

#2 - If the Dolphins did trade him the Browns would have never cut him.

Both things are brown. They must be the same thing!

(One is chocolate, the other is poop.)

j/c:

I think Jarvis is an excellent WR and I feel that some don't like him because of who brought him here. Jarvis was insanely productive in Miami. His numbers were up there w/the all time greats in his first four years or whatever the length of time he was w/the Dolphins. There was an issued between the idiotic Gase and Landry and that is how we stole him for a 4th round pick. I'd like to see Jarvis w/a quality qb and we now have one in Watson. I think the Browns really need a Y-receiver and Juice can produce there. I do know Belichek loved the guy. BB was the guy talking about Landry when the latter was in featured on the Top 100 list of players in the NFL. They even showed game footage of how BB kept saying they had to find out where Landry was and how he was their focus of who they had to concentrate on.

Just to be clear I would be perfectly fine with bringing Landry back at the right price and I liked having him on the team. He just never lived up to his contract.

Actually, they're both chocolate.

Landry caught more passes than anyone in NFL history his first four years... and no one else was even in the ballpark. Landry also caught way more passes than Rice through his first eight seasons... but who's counting?

Rice was already playing pitch and catch with his second HOF QB by then while Landry is about to punch his ticket with his fifth QB... with the first four being incredibly average.

You're the one that said he was "average" because he doesn't have speed. 80 catches per and 900 yards... over eight seasons... is anything but average.

What was Rice’s production on 80 catches versus Rice?

I can’t believe I am having this conversation.

We disagree a bit. No big deal. He did put up big numbers like Fate echoed. I do think you have to consider who was throwing him the ball while he was here.

At this point in his career Landry’s production is what it is. He catches a lot of passes for not a lot of yards. That doesn’t make him bad. Comparing him to Jerry Rice is unfair (as it would be for any receiver).

My opinion:

- The moment I learned he was available I was hoping we would trade for him

- he was not worth that contract….but, that contract did not affect our Salary cap or bringing in someone else during those years. So I was fine with it.

- He made some clutch and amazing catches, but didn’t deserve the silly VG nickname on here.

- the first couple years, his leadership was very valuable in changing the culture

- his leadership isn’t needed now, and his “leadership” isn’t a reason to bring him back. We have veteran WRs. We will probably have a few rookies, but our veterans will assist them. We have plenty of leaders on both sides of the ball. On offense, we have a new leader (and possible culture change) in our new QB plus others. Locker room culture will change moving forward for various reasons.

- I would take him back on a cheap or above cheap 1 year contract, but nothing more than that. My view is also skewed in this thinking, because we are thin at WR and I know he has some veteran savy in finding holes in the D.

- I do appreciate his time here

He is a possession receiver. He is a good guy to have, but not imperative we sign.

Im gonna assume Berry told Jarvis we'd welcome you back with open arms, but only at this price. If you find a better deal, congratulations, and out of respect.. deal will stay on the table for you either way.. take your time.

Of course it is. I only mentioned it because you used his 40 speed from eight years ago as some evidence that he is "average". Jerry was slow... that's all. Jarvis catches everything you throw at him... for "not a lot of yards"... if you consider 900 per year, like clockwork, "not a lot". Average? Uh, no.

I feel like he gets disrespected by more than a few posters. Dude works his butt off, is a willing leader, catches everything, and catches nothing but grief because he isn't fast. Memphis thinks he should get paid like the 65th best WR in the league when PFF consistently puts him in their top 25.

To each his own, I guess.

I didn't compare him to Jerry Rice. I just don't think he is as bad as some make him out to be. And realize I clicked on your post when I first posted, but it was a j/c and not directed toward you.

I think Juice can still be effective. Watson will get him the ball and is able to make the same good reads of coverages that Lanrdy can. Also, I think have a WR in the Shanaha/Kubiak offense that can run crossing routes, work the flat, be effective in motion, and run out of the slot are important. We currently do not have a WR that fits that bill. I respect ScottPayers...opinions and his post was logical, but I do think we still need another leader in the locker room. But again, we all have our opinions and it's been a pretty good conversation thus far.

Not sure if it true or not, but it sounds reasonable to me.

j/c,

Javis contract wasn't very team friendly, but he was a leader on and off the field, he was also mostly dependable (other than a few drops on some catchable passes) and you could count on him to be in the right place and at the right moment in time.

We will more then likely be in 11 personnel the majority of the time going forward, as opposed to 12 or 13 personnel of the past two seasons, so the slot WR is going to be a starter (as is the 5th NCB) more or less in our offense ... making the slot a more valuable postion going forward for us...

Fl Dawg, this is interesting and I'm not arguing. Just discussing and want to hear more about your reasoning. I get that we can run more 11 personnel now that we have a qb who can thrive in it, but aren't coaches from the Shanahan/Kubiak tree [other than McVay] prone to run more 12, 13, and 22 personnel compared to coaches from other trees? Aren't those personnel packages very important to how they assist in the running game and zone blocking schemes. I absolutely love talking schemes and I hate when fans who don't have a clue about such things make comments about how "we are so predictable" and then follow with "we get too cute." LOL

You aren't one of those guys. I respect your football acumen. I just hope that we continue to utilize our previous personnel packages while mixing in some 11 personnel. I am in direct conflict w/those who trash our scheme. Keep in mind, I didn't even want Stefanski as our HC, but when I am proven wrong, I admit it.

If you listen to KS latest interview he said that we will see more 11 personnel in our offense w/ Watson and playing to his strengths ... but yes, seeing is believing.

Thanks. It's worth keeping an eye on.

Btw--------not sure if you remember, but I did not approve of the Shanny hire when he came to Cleveland from Washington. I thought there was a nepotism factor going on. Boy, was I wrong. I ended up becoming his biggest fan on this board. I thought he was brilliant. The best scheme guy I ever saw. I often say playcalling is overrated, but this guy used building blocks to create plays that totally compromised defenses. Almost everyone on here thought Farmer was great, but I wanted him gone and to keep Shanny. I really love our scheme. The Shannahans and Kubiaks are really brilliant when it comes to scheme.

Ehhhh....I'm getting off topic. Sorry. I hope Jarvis comes back. We need that Y receiver who can really help Watson w/his pre-snap reads when he goes in motion. Think about this Dawg.........run Jarvis in motion. Watson is very good w/pre-snap reads. Run rub routes w/Landry and Cooper, our X and Y receivers. Have DPJ run one-cut vertical routes. Watson can see the field and make good decisions. That will be a dynamic group when we do go 11 personnel. The same can be said when we run 12, w/Njoku running seam routes to take the top off of the coverage and then have Cooper running the sidelines and Jarvis working underneath. I am so excited about the possibilities. And remember this......we have one of--if not the best--offensive lines in football. Watson never played behind a good OL. We really have a chance this year.

Vers,

how many leaders do you think we need on the team? I understand that is a generalized question. The reason I am asking is for clarification.

Leader can be taken a few different ways. I know u said “leader in the locker room” which is straightforward. But being this is text instead of verbal conversation, I’m just asking if you mean positional or overall locker room or both. I just want to understand your stance on that.

I also understand this is assumption since we are never in the locker room. The most we usually get is some reporter saying it or a player/coach in an interview

Fair questions and I'm not even sure I am right about my assertions. I don't think we have many leaders on this team. We lost Tretter. He was a leader. Watson is a great leader, but there will be ongoing distractions at best and a suspension is possible. I guess Walker on the defensive side of the ball is a leader. I don't think Myles is a leader. He's a great player and very thoughtful, but he's a different kind of cat that not all football players can identify with. Landry has more of that street toughness and bravado that more athletes can identify with. I do hope that we consider bringing Sheldon Richardson back. He can help on the field and off.

Keep in mind he played injured most of last season so if he looked slow (never was a burner) it was the injuries. I love his route running and he catches with this hands and if accurate on the run.

somebody mentioned 2-3 mil it will have to be more like 8-9 mil on a one year contract.

I think he will go well with Cooper and is what use to be called a possession WR with excellent hands. A plus in the run game and that has to rub off the young kids. Was surprised to read he was just 29, I thought older.

DeShaun Jackson said he will only play if the quarterback is great.

He mentioned four teams. GB, Browns, Chiefs, Broncos.

If Jarvis does not sign. He would be a good option.

He would fit well with Cooper, and DPJ.

Have no idea how much he would want.

DeShaun Jackson?!? Has not had over 15 reception in a season since 2018. He's constantly injured.

He should just retire.

I'll cut off my left foot if the Browns sign a 35 year old WR.

If you're looking for an often injured, deep threat, just sign Will Fuller on a one year deal. He's younger and has more upside.

You may be right.

I have not paid much attention to what he has done lately. In our offense he would have a limited role that he could be good at.

Fuller is out there but I have heard not heard interest from the Browns? Maybe he wants to much?

We do not have to have another receiver. Schwartz could take a big step. Who knows?

The draft is loaded with receivers. We would have good options through many rounds.

i love what Landry brings to the team.. Attitude is important and he's got it. Remember the speech in the WR meeting room year before last..


He's solid,, not spectacular... but solid.. we could use solid on this team....

Yeah. It was comical.

Yeah, but it did fire up the guys.. the intended results were to do that, and it did.

It wasn't comical IMO. We needed that then. We don't need it now. Leaders don't have to be vocal guys. I think both Garrett and Chubb are leaders. Leading by example is noticed on a team.

j/c….

From Berry’s press conference today.

In a pass happy league, Jarvis has alot of catches in his career.
Reminds of those past Browns LBers that had alot of tackles but still at the end of
The day, was a average LBer.
He is a volume catcher. Great. What he isnt, is a end zone threat. And thats what
The Browns offense is lacking. A WR that put fear in DBs.
Yeah he had a couple 1000 yd seasons. But that is very reachable number these
Days for a WR...unless you play for the Lions, Browns, Ravens,Jets,
His leadership attachment is a bit overated.
It certainly didnt help glue together a,fractured locker room last year.
And if your #2,WR is considered the leader, the catalyst of the locker room
Then your team has serious issues.
Jarvis is a pros pro. He shows up.plays hard. But a difference maker. No
The demand for him in free agency is minimal.

How would you interpret that comment in regards to the chance of us bringing him back?

I know you didn'task me, but i am here, so i will give my opinion.

I think it means we like Jarvis and think he still has some gas in the tank, and we have made our offer and are going to stick to it..we aren't going to jack it upwards just to get him signed.

I’d say the ship has sailed.

It's hard to judge demeanor, intent, etc, from a tweeted piece of his comments. On the surface, "wherever he ends up" doesn't sound very promising.

Here's the full statement regarding Landry:

"I thought Jarvis was productive for us last year, and he did battle through a few injuries and tough it out and got back as quickly as possible. I think everybody knows our affinity for Jarvis the person and Jarvis the competitor. I think he will have a successful season wherever he ends up next year."

I think Berry is very straight forward with players. He'll state intentions, they'll express their point of view, he'll adjust accordingly. Jarvis stating he'd like to dip his toes in the FA waters was probably met with a "that's fine, but here's where we stand"... and an offer. With the disclaimer being if we have to play the waiting game, the offer likely won't change.

Straight forward, no nonsense, let the chips fall where they may. I would think most players appreciate that posture.

I think the Browns have a couple of problems here. First, considering the market, signing a WR at the low end is going to be very difficult. With Kirk getting a 37M deal at 18M per season, the bar has been pushed up whether it's deserved or not. The second issue is due to the lateness of the FA season and the fact that AB has a well-documented history of handing out 1-year deals, the unknown surrounding Watson's availability to play combined with Stefanski's scheme that will be deployed without Watson is giving huge caution to WR's who may be available. You have to ask yourself, if you were offered a 1-year deal at WR where your prove it season would be dependent on Brissett being your future meal ticket are you going to sign that deal? Most likely not and you're going to want a multi year deal to insure you get to be a Watson receiver.

I don't know how likely it is that Watson gets suspended this year. I guess it's low, but you do bring up a good point. Some receivers might hesitate at a 1 year deal.

I am not sure where i heard it, but I think the deal we have offered for Landry is for 2 years. He wouldn't be on a prove it deal, but if we are willing to go 2 years with him, we might with someone else if Landry goes elsewhere.

To add to my previous point, I hope Landry makes his move soon. I wouldn't want to get in to a situation like we had with Schwartz a few years ago and be forced to move on because plan B is about to be lost while we wait. I don't think Berry is going to lose out on plan B waiting around for Landry to make a decision.

I think, but do not know, that Berry and Browns want Jarvis back. I think that Berry is making it known that he has a monetary amount that he's comfortable with and that Jarvis might not be comfortable with. I think Berry is acknowledging that he believes Jarvis is still a good player and valuable member to any team and he believes Jarvis will sign somewhere else, but he is still leaving the door open in case Landry does want to return. Summary: I feel the odds of Jarvis playing w/us next year are now slim. That makes me sad.

I think they were slim from the start. And I mean the start. It was an over-priced contract before it was ever signed. That was part of the bed we made with a tear-down and 1-31. Part of that pricetag was to tell the league we were ready to play some football... and create any kind of impetus for other players to want to sign here. That contract made 2022 a restructure or walk proposition. This is playing out just about the way it was always meant to, with little sprinkles of hope to tide us over until the inevitable comes to pass.

I think it means that Berry has a very firm number on the table and this is the public "take it or leave it".
It's akin to every time he's said a player "has earned the right to test free agency"... that has been the statement that says they aren't coming back here for what they think they can get elsewhere.

Yes, but I think he is going about it in a nice way and being honorable. I think highly of Berry. Didn't like the hire, but I change my opinion if a guy proves me wrong. Berry is intelligent, well-spoken, fair, and a good talent evaluator for the most part.

Yes, the question and answer to it is very subjective. There really isn't a right/wrong answer to it b/c we are on the outside looking in.

My view/guesses
Are similar to yours. We lost a good one with Tretter.

Offensive
Definitely agree with Watson.
Chubb? Not by words, but by doing
Maybe Bitonio?

Defensive
I've read articles about Garrett becoming a leader and what he's done as a leader. (If it's effective or not is another story). I do see your point about being a different kind of cat. That's easy to see. What dang game was that, maybe the Packers? I think it was a 3rd and long play late in the game. Where Garrett/Clowney were doing their damnnest to try to sack the QB, while the QB was running for his life, he got off a beautiful pass. The next thing u see is Clowney slamming the ground with his fist, while Garrett has a big smile on his face and giving the QB a slap on the butt, fist bump or something for the throw. Basically giving him a tip of the cap on beating them.

Walker was a leader at the previous stop
JJIII was supposedly another leader at his previous stop

Those are the ones I'm thinking. I wonder if GM has any inside information on it.

But as for leaders, there isn't a set number of how many you need. It just depends on the style and effectiveness of the leader. Not saying we do or not, just different opinions on what we have/need.

I like your post. We don't totally agree on things, but that is the beauty of good discussion. Thanks, I appreciate conversations like the one we just had.

jc -

I love Jarvis, but I love guys with his outward competitive fire. He also appears to be extremely intelligent, and I like that as well. I think what he brought to the team goes beyond the numbers - on the field or the dollars off. I disagree with Memphis and others who think he was overpaid. Without Jarvis, the team does not make the playoffs in 2020, in my opinion.

When I watch Jarvis I see an extremely competitive, skilled wide receiver who I think would bring more to a team than most guys already on teams. Apparently the league does not agree with me so what do I know. But I don't get caught up in numbers or dollars. I just go by what I see.

I hope in some way we can bring him back. I think if we do and we have a successful season, Jarvis will be a big reason why.

Jarvis's numbers have declined every year the last 4 yrs.
What speed and shiftiness he may have once is gone.
He didnt even break 600 yds last year.
The Browns can draft a WR in RD 2 like Watson and get that much
Production.for less dollars.
Nobody in the league is in a hurry to add Landry to.their team.

It will all depend on the Saints offer. IMO Jarvis wants to be here, but we wont (and shouldn’t) budge from a lower price tag.

I think this is very shortsighted. Landry was hurt most of last year. How do we really know if his speed and shiftiness is gone?

And in no way, shape, or form can you just "replace" Landry in the second round like a snap of the fingers. There's so much more that goes into being a player than what's on paper.

Landry was injured practically all season long last year. He had a badly injured QB throwing to him. Circumstances matter.

I like Landry, but at what point does being hurt/injured start to be considered the norm instead of the exception. He doesn't miss games, but he's been hampered fairly often during his time here. He's had a lot of catches during his career, which is a good thing. In some ways, it's also a bad thing because, while not 30 yet, he has a lot of mileage with a physical play style. He's a good player, but he seems like a candidate for letting go a year too soon rather than a year too late. If the price is right, it'd be great to have him in the building. He's probably not someone we'll be building the offense around, though.

All players get hurt. The tough ones stay on the field. Landry played in 110 straight games before covid took him out of the lineup in 2020.

Last year I watched his injuries affect his play... well, combined with the dark cloud, internal politics and the departure of his wonder twin. But he would be the last guy on the roster I would complain about "injuries", dude would jog out there with a hand missing.

2 years ago Landry really played at a high level.
I think.he peaked then. Since then his ypc catch has dropped
His TD numbers have dropped.
He hasnt had a catch over 50 yds in 2 years.
That tells me has lost a gear and he cant separate
Ok he was injuried last year. Its the nature of the position.
Rookie NFL WRs are so.much farther ahead coming into the league.
It's not hard for rookie WR to come in and put up Landrys 2021 numbers.
Well unless your name is Anthony Schwartz. .

I don't question his toughness, just how much tread is left on the tires. I don't doubt that he'd run out there one-handed, but the question is how effective will he be. He's never been a height/weight/speed guy, and his legs have started to go, it appears. I don't think he has been right since the hip surgery. I somewhat worry that compensating for old/lingering injuries will continue to lead to other injuries.

I get it bro, sorry to sound so snarky. You're right. He'll also hit 30 this season.

I think Landry can still produce at a Pro Bowl level if he can get fully healthy. Don't think he's been over 90% healthy the last two years. Could be wrong, but I'd put money on him at 100% going into the season.