To the Rams for future pick.

Why?

I guess he is too expensive for the amount of playing time he will get. AJ Green stepping up?

We drafted his replacement

Trading him for a 2023 fifth round pick seems like we gave them a huge bargain.

I am not sure I understand this. I know the team loves AJ Green. Maybe Newsome moves to the slot?

It’s almost like we bought a 5th round pick next year. And it was very expensive

Why? I suspect, because any veteran player on the Browns, who is decent, and not overpaid, ...
Well Hollywood and NY city don't give a rip about Cleveland, they only care about screwing Cleveland. And players that fit those characteristics look valuable to other teams.

Keep your team together, or end up in last place in the standings.

Maybe it is, but it seems the browns felt the guy wasn't going to see regular action and decided another pick for next year was more important.

So they wasted the draft pick. ( Did the drafted player already spend a training camp in Berea where he overtook Hill for the roster spot and playing time?) Oh it never works that way, it did 37 years ago.

I posted in another thread that I did no in depth analysis but last season it seemed as if Hill was either hurt or getting flagged

No we didn't. We drafted A younger and bigger DB with more upside; a player we can develop.

So we lose the player and eat $5,650,000 [dead cap 2022 + 2.3M] for a 5th round pick next year
... sounds like we got fleeced. EDIT: LA got him for $1,500,000

j/c:

I am almost positive that the "Regime Wars" have ended and there really is no need to draw a line in the sand over every move. It's probably okay to just evaluate move as it occurs. This does not seem like a very good decision by the Browns, but that doesn't mean they suck.

j/c,

Again I ask why? (Drafting an unproven outside CB prospect is not a good reason.) Why would we trade our slot CB and increase our cap by $2.25M for a future 5th round Draft pick?

Maybe Hill asked after the DW deal? Who knows. I can't see how the rookie would be better than the guys who will be in front of him. And we have three very good corners in Williams, Ward, and Newsome. They are joined by a quality rotation too, so no, I thought the trade was stupid, and the first pick was at minimum a huge reach. I'm sure they know more than me, see more than me, but I saw him graded out to "Average Backup Or Special-Teamer", on NFL.com. So why take him then? Baffling to me.

The way I see it, Greedy is healthy now. When needed you put Newsome in the slot and Greedy outside. The new kid gets to develop and grow. Also with his size, he can play safety. I also read that if Hill was already paid his bonus, we would gain 750K on the cap. So until that is made known, there is no proof of the dead cap money.

I could not stand Hill early on. I thought he was so soft in tackling downfield. Made me want to puke. But as the season progressed, I noticed that he was very good covering slot receivers, was excellent in blitzing out of our Quarters package, and made some strong stops around the LOS. So, I went from thinking Berry blew it to thinking Berry made a nice acquisition.

I'm a football guy, so I ask you all............was this about money somehow?

Funny that the Cleveland Browns front office will take a 5.625M dollar dead cap hit spread across the next 3-years to trade a #5 or #6 Cornerback reserve for a future 5th round pick but refuse to pay a portion of a one-time cap hit for a QB described in this forum as being injured to the point of being a concern that lacks character and clearly has not enough talent for teams to put up with his diva behavior and toxic personality to make a trade. Only in Cleveland......

The only way I understand it is if they didn’t think Hill was going to make the team and they wanted to get something for him.

pretty much

We have refused to pay a portion of Bakers salary as part of a trade deal?

I'm pretty sure they'll take a partial cap hit but don't want to pay his entire salary...

Funny? Not sure about that.

Hopefully, Baker will find a new home soon and guys like you will follow him there.

j/c...

Hate to be "that guy" and I've hesitated to mention it -- but this just all seems to weird. Especially the "hit" and compensation.

Troy has had a rough life off the field. He said he would probably be dead if his mother hadn't shipped him out of Youngstown.

Sometimes "coming home" is a terrible answer.


This is 100% speculation and probably a little unfair to even suggest as a possibility.

Hmmmm.......something to consider. If it is true, best of luck to Hill in the future and kudos to the Browns if they are tryin to help him. Either way, best of luck to the young man.

Probably the best explanation that I have seen.
That said I don't like the thought of taking our 2nd best outside CB and moving him inside in sub packages bring in a lesser talent in Greedy on the outside. I would understand this move better if we still had another CB other than Newsome who could use to cover the slot.

I think AJ Green is going to be given the chance to take on a much bigger role.

That is incorrect ... the trade cost us an additional $2.25M against our 2022 cap #.

I was impressed with A.J. Green last season ... perhaps he moves inside taking Hills spot which I would prefer over moving one of our two best outside guys there. Time will tell if he can fill that vacancy.

I think they will move Newsome inside when we run dime coverages. But again, I did not like Hill at first, but he served a purpose. He's a good slot corner who finds the ball and was very good at blitzing when we ran quarters. Not a good move in my opinion.

IMO Hill got popular because he made some tackles on some blitzes when he was not blocked.

I thought as a corner he got beat often. IMO as a slot corner I thought he was way overrated.

I thought AJ Green showed promise. I don't know anything about Emerson other than Berry picked him. I will give Berry the benefit of the doubt on both moves.

Agreed. If I remember correctly there was much criticism about Hill and statements made that AB made a mistake signing him. For that matter, the same was said about John Johnson. Short memories!

Hills contract details from his signing in 2021:

Year Base Salary Signing Bonus Void Total Cap Hit
2021 $1,000,000 $875,000 $0 $1,875,000
2022 $4,500,000 $875,000 $0 $5,375,000
2023 $0 $875,000 $875,000 $1,750,000
2024 $0 $875,000 ($875,000) $0
Total $5,500,000 $3,500,000 $0 $9,000,000

Hill had $4.5 million in full guarantees, which consists of his $1 million base salary in 2021 and his $3.5 million signing bonus.
The Browns were able to keep Hill’s cap hit low in 2021 by creating two voidable years on Hill’s contract in 2023 and 2024, which spaces his signing bonus out over a four-year span instead of a three-year span. However, on the fifth day of the 2023 league year, Hill’s contract will void, which actually accelerates the $875,000 cap hit from 2024 into the 2023 season.
If Hill ends up being a bust in 2021, they can cut him next season, and none of his 2022 base salary is guaranteed; they would just carry a dead cap of $2.63 million for him from the original bonus already paid..

The issue with the above is that it doesn't add up. If you look above, you'll see that Hill is scheduled to have a base salary of 4.5M in 2022 yet the trade specifics say the Rams are getting Hill for 1.5M in 2022. What's missing from the above contract is the restructure the Browns did to Hill's deal in 2022.

The Browns took 3M of Hill's planned base salary for 2022 and converted it to a bonus to create cap space which they prorated for the restructure. Now, instead of having a signing bonus/prorated bonus of $875,000 as listed above in the original contract, Hill's new prorated bonus number is 1.875M for each of the next 3-years or 5.625M total. That means the Browns will have 1.875M dead cap applied for Hill in 2022, 2023, and 2024 and unless the contract language changed the Browns could still void the 2024 void year and take a dead cap hit of 3.75M in 2023 with no additional hit in 2024.

This is commonly known as kicking the can down the road and the use of void years to make the deal workable. The Browns currently have about 40 players with various prorated bonuses, some with void years and some without. Hill is now a LARam but the Browns are still responsible for the dead cap that will be distributed and count against that year's available cap dollars over the next 2-3 years equaling the 5.625M they have already paid Hill. No matter how you spin it, Hill will be a cap charge of 5.625M over the next 2-3 years while playing for the Rams or some other team.

Other players the Browns are paying while not on the team (Dead Cap): Landry 1.5M in 2022, Hooper 3.75M in 2022 and 7.5M in 2023, Clowney 3.6M in 2022, Keenum 2.33M in 2022, Malik Jackson 1.89M in 2022, Tretter 1.625M, Walker 1.163M in 2022, and six others with lessor amounts.

From the keyboard of the biggest whiner (on the board) about 'personal attacks'.

The hate is real on full display for all to see.

Troy Hill back to the Rams ... for a 5th round pick.

This is (what lil ralphie said) Stupid!
1st of all, you don't get any of the playmaking Troy Hill would offer you in the 2022 season.

2nd of all, when you finally do get a pick, (if they even use it) it's not until in the 150+ overall range probably and those are not going to help you.

The Browns got Fleeced! Robbed! and imagine what, ... the Hollywood team got helped out again, at Clevelands' expense.
Absolute disaster, and no one can claim it helps the Browns win.

What it does is help the Browns be Cheap, in 2024-2025.
It should be about winning Super Bowls, but apparently it's not!

j/c:

I was pretty excited to see Troy Hill come to Cleveland. However, mid-season I found myself watching a play where Hill made a tackle and said to myself... "Oh yeah, that guy is on our team". That's anecdotal, obviously, but I don't think Hill was what they team envisioned. It's an additional hit that we eat a decent chunk of his contract but that is not uncommon. The "glass half-full" mindset is the FO is really excited about the current CB depth.

You think they will move Newsome inside.

That reminds me.

If it is OK to trade Troy Hill away to the Rams for a 5th round 150+ pick in the spring of 2022,
then that TOTALLY NEGATES,
and makes absolutely unnecessary

The WASTE that it was to use the decision, the all important MUST that led into the Spring 2021! draft! where they HAD TO HAVE A CORNER, or the world was going to end .

That after 1 year they are Creating the SAME HOLE, by trading Troy Hill for nothing and showing
that the Greg Newsome draft pick may as well have been the Justin Gilbert pick because your net gain is nothing!

Another disgruntled former Cleveland Brown?

https://www.redlandsdailyfacts.com/2022/05/02/troy-hill-comes-out-a-winner-in-rams-browns-trade/

I know you have mentioned Duffin before as a good source, but I never cared for just putting one stat out there to either elevate or criticize a player. Hill's PFF grades are pretty good. Grades were better in run defense and pass rush than coverage, though. I certainly don't think he is awful.

Also, I don't really think his comments fall in the category of "disgruntled" as was said by another poster.

Well he did say he felt disrespected. And we know how that's perceived depending on the player in question.

Now you just hold your horses here Pit.

I agree.





And I'm not saying I despise the DW trade. There are some things about it I don't like, of course, but your point stands.

Disgruntled: unhappy or annoyed by the action, dissatisfied, displeased

disrespected: to lack regard or respect for, low regard or esteem for someone or something, lack of respect

$1,875,000 (2021 cap hit)
+
$5,625,000 (2022 dead cap)
=
$7.5M for his services for 2021.

Ugh!

Not good.

It's not good I agree but as fans we should not be concerned with money and salaries. That's for the FO to worry about. As fans we should be concerned with the talent we have on the field and how they are learning, playing and progressing. Also, how are our coaches using the players we have ETC. JMO

Are those hits official? I know there was some confusion as to what his actual hit was for this year depending on whether or not something had been paid or not.

Either way, if the role he was brought in to fill is equally served with someone else, then all it amounts to is that we got a one year rental, then sold him back to his old team for a draft pick. The cap hit is basically buying the pick.

We bought the pick.

Hill said Monday. “I enjoyed my time (in Cleveland), just the people and everything. But it’s nothing comparable to L.A. and the (Rams) organization.

Read between the lines and the message is crystal clear.

Maybe Andrew Berry needs to work on his leadership a little bit because more and more ex players seems to air their ‘dissatisfaction’ with what the Browns has to offer.

... and every other player from every other organization. We just put "our" players and situation under a microscope. Human nature: player is let go, player sees this as an insult, player says (out loud, many times) "grass will be greener here anyway". If you want to "read between lines", I'd pick a different paragraph.

Yes, I would have thought that a 5th round pick was a little less expensive ... guess I was mistaken.

Probably similar to thinking Cooper was worth more than a 5th round pick. Sometimes to massage the cap in to balance you have to make moves like this.

This isn't anything unusual, it's just unusual for us.

As for disgruntled, most people feel that way after being fired. I wouldn't try to read between any lines here.

We've read "War & Peace" between the lines 24,987 times since/regarding Baker asked(ing) to be traded...it's what fans do (including me).