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Posted By: bonefish Receiver Position - 07/13/22 01:20 PM
Obviously the big decision is still pending.

Given that so far the Browns have remained pat on the receiver room. This is who is on the roster:

Cooper, DPJ, Schwartz, Bell, JaMarcus Bradley, Jakeem Grant, Mike Harley, Travell Harris, Isaiah Weston, Javon Wims, Michael Woods.

After Grant I know very little about the others. The first four make the team in all likelihood.

Grant makes the team for sure in ST. There could be plays for him as a receiver. Jet sweeps, reverses etc.

The Browns have held on to Bradley for a couple years now so they like him. Wims played three years for the Bears. He did very little.

Woods and Weston are prospects they want to look at.

At first glance it is not a receiver room that knocks you out. Cooper is a good player with experience. DPJ has shown consistent growth. I thought he would have had a very good year last year but qb play was poor.

Schwartz we just don't know. The staff likes him and expects him to contribute.

Bell looks to have been a good draft pick. The hope is for him to be a replacement for Jarvis.

Berry thinks enough of the group to not have brought in another veteran guy. It could still happen but I doubt it.

Schwartz and Bell need at least to be average.

Maybe one of the FA can show something.

I think we will be ok because we will throw to the TE's and backs. Bell could be very good.
Posted By: Iluvmyxstripper Re: Receiver Position - 07/13/22 01:36 PM
What's concerning is that the WR room lacks explosive playmakers. I just don't see a WR on this team
That can take a shallow quick slant and just outrun the secondary

How many pass plays did the offense have over 40 yds last year?

I can see the WR room heavy on balanced distribution on the targets

Would not be surprised if Michael Woods or Isiah Weston
Sneaking on the final 53. After Cooper, Bell, and DPJ
It's anybodies job to take.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Receiver Position - 07/13/22 01:39 PM
I'm starting to think that Njoku is going to end up second in targets and receptions after Cooper. I'm guessing that DPJ and Bell will be finish 3rd and 4th in targets and receptions, but not sure of the order. Their numbers will probably be similar. Schwartz would be next in line, but I see him more as a deep threat to stretch the field rather than a reliable WR.

Then again, I could have it all wrong.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Receiver Position - 07/13/22 01:42 PM
Bell getting the love that he has so far is somewhat comforting.

What scares me is what happens when we have a couple guys go down or get dinged. I see a WR group that can go from 'probably ok' to super questionable really quickly.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Receiver Position - 07/13/22 01:44 PM
I think Cooper is better than anyone we have had on the roster for some time. He's an upgrade over OBJ who was allegedly our #1 going into last year, he's an upgrade although a different player than Landry.

I think Bell needs to step in and be something of a Landry replacement, I think he could well be above average. I like him a lot but until he does it on Sundays it's a question.

DPJ took a step back last year but was impacted by injury. Hoping he can be a consistent #2, even if his routes are somewhat limited.

Schwartz might have the ability to surprise and put last year behind him (another that was dinged up) ... but him and the rest are all a giant unknown.

Overall I think we are about the same as last year - but hopefully we have better luck with injuries. Side note - it'll be interesting to monitor Landry on his new team - has age caught up a little and has he slowed, or were his struggles 100% injury related too.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Receiver Position - 07/13/22 01:52 PM
Quote
I see a WR group that can go from 'probably ok' to super questionable really quickly.

I think our WR unit is below average right now. That sucks, because a couple of years ago, we had one of the best units in the entire league. I would have loved to see OBJ and Landry w/Watson. That would have been special.

I do think that Njoku is the wild card here. I know he is a TE, but he can make big plays in the passing game. I think we will use him a variety of ways.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Receiver Position - 07/13/22 02:23 PM
By that line of thinking, should we also include Felton in discussions about WRs?
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Receiver Position - 07/13/22 02:27 PM
I would say we could. I'm just not sure how much time he will get. I could be dead wrong about Njoku being our #2 target. It's just a feeling I have given the contract we gave him, his athleticism, Stefanski's use of TEs, and Watson's prior success w/TEs.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Receiver Position - 07/13/22 02:57 PM
I agree about Njoku. They paid him. They expect him to play a big role. Bryant catches the ball and he will get targets.

IMO Hunt will catch a bunch of balls. In fact I believe his total yards will be more than Chubb. Nick however will gain more rushing yards.

With this team I believe you have to look at the offense as a whole. The receivers do not need to be the best in football.

We run the ball. We have a good OL. We will use the TE's and backs. It is about being efficient and not predictable.

Yards per play is important because our backs are really good. Byrant and Njoku are both receiver type TE's.

I like DPJ. He had a great camp last year. He looked like he would have a great year. It didn't happen because qb play. I expect him to be good.

Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Receiver Position - 07/13/22 02:58 PM
I pretty much agree w/all of that.
Posted By: jfanent Re: Receiver Position - 07/13/22 03:01 PM
Originally Posted by Iluvmyxstripper
What's concerning is that the WR room lacks explosive playmakers. I just don't see a WR on this team
That can take a shallow quick slant and just outrun the secondary

How many pass plays did the offense have over 40 yds last year? .....

It's hard to make that judgment, Baker couldn't lead a receiver at all last year. It seemed most of his completions were to stationary targets or to someone coming back for the ball.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Receiver Position - 07/13/22 03:11 PM
Cooper ran a 4.42 and Schwartz ran a 4.27. Those are really good times.

For comparison sake, DeAndre Hopkins ran a 4.57, Deebo Samuel ran a 4.48, Odell a 4.43, Justin Jefferson a 4.43, and S. Diggs a 4.46.

I think we have guys who can outrun the defense.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Receiver Position - 07/13/22 05:15 PM
bone, I think that Njoku will be a valuable red zone target for Watson, should the latter be eligible to play. Watson threw to his TEs quite a bit in the red zone while he was in Houston and Njoku has crazy athleticism. Along w/DPJ, Njoku are our two best high-point catchers.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Receiver Position - 07/13/22 05:25 PM
Since Njoku was a Brown. I have always thought he should be a red zone nightmare.

He is tall with long arms. He can really jump. He is a much improved overall player since he learned to block. This year it is his time to shine.

He can post up on the goal line with a slant. He should be deadly in the back of the endzone.

We have all been waiting for the Chief to breakout. Fingers crossed.
Posted By: WSU Willie Re: Receiver Position - 07/13/22 05:28 PM
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Quote
I see a WR group that can go from 'probably ok' to super questionable really quickly.

I think our WR unit is below average right now. That sucks, because a couple of years ago, we had one of the best units in the entire league...

One of the best WR units in the entire league? Who were the receivers and 'couple of years' would be 2019 or 2020.

Here's the 2019 roster:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/2019_roster.htm

Here's the 2020 roster:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/2020_roster.htm

Best in the entire league? Really.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Receiver Position - 07/13/22 05:40 PM
Originally Posted by WSU Willie
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Quote
I see a WR group that can go from 'probably ok' to super questionable really quickly.

I think our WR unit is below average right now. That sucks, because a couple of years ago, we had one of the best units in the entire league...

One of the best WR units in the entire league? Who were the receivers and 'couple of years' would be 2019 or 2020.

Here's the 2019 roster:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/2019_roster.htm

Here's the 2020 roster:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/2020_roster.htm

Best in the entire league? Really.

You know why that statement was made right?
Posted By: hitt Re: Receiver Position - 07/13/22 09:56 PM
Yes, we learned that on the offensive line last year....but, that isn't new....NFL- not for long.....and availability is huge. Can't be excellent to good if not playing.
Posted By: Steubenvillian Re: Receiver Position - 07/13/22 11:22 PM
Jakeem Grant is fast too. I could see a four wide set with Cooper, and DPJ, and Grant and Swartz on the same running deep routes. That is a lot of speed going deep, which could really open up the underneath stuff. Throw Njoku breaking off a block and into the middle of the field. That would be tough to cover
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Receiver Position - 07/13/22 11:54 PM
We've never had one of the best WR corps in the league.

We HAVE had plenty of pre-season hype where we fans on here imagined we would based on what we thought we had on paper as we grossly over-estimated what each receiver would do for us, but at no time did it ever even come close to materializing on the field.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Receiver Position - 07/14/22 04:53 PM
Which is the perfect example of the difference of on paper and on the field.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Receiver Position - 07/15/22 12:13 AM
I subscribe to PFF premium content. I read an article on there about route running grades since 2019 that evaluate WRs, TEs and CBs. I wish I could post the entire article because it is fascinating, but I'll just post a few things. They use a three-prong criteria including the route-running phase, the catch point phase and the after-the-catch
phase.



I subscribe to PFF premium content. I read an article on there about route running grades since 2019 that evaluate WRs, TEs and CBs. I wish I could post the entire article because it is fascinating, but I'll just post a few things. They use a three-prong criteria including the route-running phase, the catch point phase and the after-the-catch
phase.



Wide Receiver Route-Running Grade Over Expectation

Mike Evans 0.097
Davante Adams 0.055
Tyreek Hill 0.045
Calvin Ridley 0.043
Stefon Diggs 0.042
Odell Beckham Jr. 0.041
A.J. Brown 0.038
Cooper Kupp 0.035
Michael Thomas 0.034
Marquise Brown 0.034



Tight End Route-Running Grade Over Expectation

Travis Kelce 0.039
Mark Andrews 0.038
Darren Waller 0.031
George Kittle 0.026
Rob Gronkowski 0.024
Dallas Goedert 0.024




Cornerback Route Coverage Grade Over Expectation

Jaylon Johnson 0.086
Ronald Darby 0.072
Rasul Douglas 0.055
Patrick Peterson 0.054
Bryce Hall 0.050
Jourdan Lewis 0.049
Taron Johnson 0.047
Marshon Lattimore 0.046
Darious Williams 0.046
Byron Murphy Jr. 0.044


This list comes with a few surprising names, illustrating how difficult cornerback evaluation is compared to receiver evaluation. Some prominent players, such as Jalen Ramsey, Tre’Davious White, Denzel Ward, A.J. Terrell and Marlon Humphrey, are missing. It’s notable that all of those cornerbacks have positive grades over expectation and rank in the top 30, but when just grading route coverage, others have been more consistent over the past three years.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Receiver Position - 07/15/22 01:07 PM
This might be Captain Obvious, but it's the 'over expectation' that's the key part here. Seems like they expected a lot from the likes of Ward, Ramsey, etc.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Receiver Position - 07/15/22 01:19 PM
Originally Posted by oobernoober
This might be Captain Obvious, but it's the 'over expectation' that's the key part here. Seems like they expected a lot from the likes of Ward, Ramsey, etc.

I'm sorry that I could post the entire article. It was premium content. The "over expectation" part for both receivers and d-backs is for each given play. The article was very long and had a lot of complex data thrown in. To keep it simple, some of the features used in the evaluation process for each play were things like: time to throw; depth of the route; zone or man coverage; where player lines; type of route; play call, such as RPO, play action, shotgun; roster position; defensive info, such as press coverage, number of pass rushers, coverage levels, open or closed middle of the field coverage, etc.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Receiver Position - 07/15/22 01:33 PM
Ooooooh. Thanks for the clarification. So not, 'Captain Obvious'... just incorrect.


Nobody bats 1.00
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Receiver Position - 07/15/22 01:51 PM
In your defense..........I didn't provide many details.
Posted By: mac Re: Receiver Position - 07/17/22 12:49 PM
Cleveland Browns: Just how bad was the wide receiver play in 2021?

by Randy Gurzi2 minutes ago
link


In 2021, the Cleveland Browns wide receivers had a tough time trying to create separation, and the data shows they were actually among the worst in the NFL

This offseason, the Cleveland Browns decided to make some big moves at wide receiver this offseason as they traded for Amari Cooper and released Jarvis Landry.

They also added David Bell and Michael Woods in the draft and Jakeem Grant in free agency. The hope now is that the newcomers can find a way to create more separation from defenders than the previous corps.

While it was well-known that this was an issue, Jared Mueller of Browns Wire touched on just how bad it was in 2021.

“Overall, Cleveland’s pass catchers were third worst in the league at creating separation on routes” — Mueller, Browns Wire
Which teams were ranked lower than the Cleveland Browns?

Cleveland came in at No. 30 with just the New York Giants and Tennessee Titans faring worse than their wideouts. Surprisingly enough, the Cincinnati Bengals were just one spot ahead of Cleveland which is surprising considering how many yards Joe Burrow put up in that offense — and how many times Ja’Marr Chase was running free behind his defender.

The positive news for the Browns is that the Dallas Cowboys had a similar problem in 2018, which was a season that saw Dak Prescott get off to a horrific start. They were able to change their fortunes with one move, which was their trade for Cooper.

With the Pro Bowler now wearing orange and brown, things should start to improve. Not only is he going to draw the best corner every week, but he will also have the attention of the opposing safety, which will help players such as Donovan Peoples-Jones, David Bell, Anthony Schwartz, and Jakeem Grant all find more room to operate.
Posted By: mac Re: Receiver Position - 07/17/22 01:01 PM
Data: Browns created third lowest separation in 2021

Jared Mueller
July 15, 2022 5:45 pm ET
link


Sometimes data (analytics, statistics, research… whatever you may want to call it) can provide an interesting nugget about sports. Sometimes data can surprise you as it shows you something you didn’t know or didn’t think was true.

Other times, like today, data can show you exactly what you saw on the field.

Last year, the Cleveland Browns had significant trouble separating from defenders while running routes. With WR Jarvis Landry and TE Austin Hooper leading the team in targets and WR Rashard Higgins fifth on the list, the Browns threw a lot of passes to players without elite speed or quickness.

None of those three had more than 11.5 yards per reception. Not surprisingly, all three of those players are now gone with WR Amari Cooper brought in to replace them.

The two holdovers slotted between Hooper and Higgins, Donovan Peoples-Jones and David Njoku, had 17.6 and 13.2 yards per reception in 2021.

Overall, Cleveland’s pass catchers were third worst in the league at creating separation on routes:


a look at the best teams by separation in 2021

-fair to say the chiefs are definitely gonna miss tyreek
-oh giants


[social:tweet]https://twitter.com/ajaypatell8/status/1547966914298667008/photo/1[/social]
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Receiver Position - 07/17/22 01:55 PM
Wasn't the narrative (backed up by similar stats) from last year that we had WRs running free all over the place?
Posted By: archbolddawg Re: Receiver Position - 07/17/22 02:08 PM
Originally Posted by oobernoober
Wasn't the narrative (backed up by similar stats) from last year that we had WRs running free all over the place?

Yes.
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Receiver Position - 07/17/22 02:29 PM
Originally Posted by oobernoober
Wasn't the narrative (backed up by similar stats) from last year that we had WRs running free all over the place?

That was just the narrative used to crucify Baker, it wasn't true then and isn't now. The stats prove that.
Posted By: Iluvmyxstripper Re: Receiver Position - 07/17/22 02:40 PM
I'd like to see a stat on the average cushion and the margain
Of difference between seperation and cushion
But the Browns WRs were garbage in getting yards after catch last year
Can't believe how many people wanted guys like Landry back
This year. He was such a non factor after he caught the ball
Schwartz for all his speed had issues separating
If the targets don't do a better job of seperating after catch
This year , Watson will have trouble matching his stats
In Houston.

CBs didnt have to fear any Browns WRs beating them deep
Last year. So I'm sure a great deal of CBs didnt have to give
Browns WRs cushion.
If they don't improve this year maybe the WRs coach is shown
The door
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Receiver Position - 07/17/22 03:00 PM
--Baker Mayfield is a bad QB by whatever measurement you want to use - stats, eye test, "clutch-ness", video review - and on and on.

--He performs best when he is an underdog with no expectations (rookie year, 2020 after bad 2019). As soon as expectations exist - 2019, 2021 - he folds.

--I believe the reason for this is he doesn't work hard on his craft. Moxie and confidence are great for quarters one through three. But the NFL is the ultimate chess game and it's about who is the most prepared mentally at the end. You saw the same thing in the college football playoffs against Georgia. With the game on the line, he folded.

--It would not surprise me if he lost the QB competition with Darnold since he is expected to win it. Again, he doesn't do well with expectations.

--It would not surprise me if he is out of the league next year.

--It would surprise me if he resurrects his career.

--If the Browns were ever down in a game, it was game over. There were no comebacks. If the Browns had a big lead, it always came down to a nail biter. Baker couldn't lead comebacks and couldn't sustain leads.

--I don't believe there would be much difference record-wise between Baker and Brissett. So if Brissett has to start all year, I think you're getting the same end result if Baker were here (mediocre record and no playoffs).

--If you watch enough football, and not just Browns games, you can tell if a QB is good but is being held back by the talent around him, is bad and is holding back the talent around him, or is elevating the talent around him. Baker was clearly the weak link of the offense.

--Baker singlehandedly gave TJ Watt defensive player of the year. I think Stefanski had enough of his attitude/personality and said I'm going to force you to make quick reads and quick decisions. Those plays are there. If you don't, it's on you. We all saw the result.

--OBJ was open nearly all game every game and he couldn't get him the ball. OBJ leaves Cleveland, receives a ton of support from his former teammates, and goes on to win a Super Bowl as a key contributor on the Rams. And we still have people supporting Baker in the Baker vs. OBJ saga. This place feels like bizarro world.

--Baker is a bad QB. I'm surprised that this is even a debate at this point.

--Baker is a bad QB. He had to pay another team to give him a shot. Think about that for a second. Out of 32 teams, he had one team HALF interested and had to pay them for the privilege. And there are still people here who think he is good.


--This place is nuts.
Posted By: THROW LONG Re: Receiver Position - 07/17/22 03:38 PM
Originally Posted by bonefish
Cooper, DPJ, Schwartz, Bell, JaMarcus Bradley, Jakeem Grant, Mike Harley, Travell Harris, Isaiah Weston, Javon Wims, Michael Woods.
Em kay, In my opinion. Grant sucks, Bradley sucks, Schwartz sucks, DPJ?- ehh, Bell- we don't know, and you have Cooper.
Michael Woods, Wims, Weston, Harris, what do you have, who knows.

What I was originally going to say is. Since this is about the WR's and not the Qb's;
By draft position, historically!
When the Browns had, Northcutt, Andre Davis, Quincy Morgan, and Kevin Johnson, (and had released JuJuan Dawson), at that point,
by position of where they were drafted, the Browns had a better receiver room.

I don't know, off hand, where Amari Cooper was drafted, he may have been top 10 overall, but it still would change little about the rest of the group,

So by that one measurement, I don't really expect big things from the Browns Wr's in 2022.
And, it reminds me.

Way back when... The Rams and Kurt Warner came out of nowhere and won the Super bowl his first year, (did that happen?) I remember a couple games I followed, the previous year, ( I was in a pick-em battle) and if I still remember right, Isaac Bruce of the Rams, had been a really good and consistent deep threat for them. What I mean is,
there is No Chance, Deshaun Watson is going to do anything great with this Browns offense, if nobody on the other end of the pass, can catch the :expletatives: Ball!
And I don't mean one player, I mean a 4 player or 4 players plus the TE group.

And the Rams, greatest show on Turf, they had had 3 or 4 years to build, (like the Browns defense, in the secondary, has had one year to build going into 22, instead of the growing pains of 2021) So, if anybody thinks the Browns in any way shape or form are going to have an even remarkable passing offense, this year,
I disagree with them, I think they are nuts, I think it's a hodge podge group that hasn't played together, and, look for the last time that that finished strong anywhere in the NFL's history? ( Or all of team sports' history, baseball, hockey, anywhere?)

So when the Browns Do lose a dozen games this year, we know where the team will be next year, New Coach City, because one think is consistent
Haslam can't leave Anything! Well enough alone, to see if it develops or grows, Not even Baker Mayfield.
(unless it's a 1-31 coach, he'd bring that back. banghead)

And If one thinks the defense is going to carry the team to a winning record? It's not going to matter, just look at the tapes of last years games, and 2020s, and 2019s, at best the defense could carry them to about a 7-10 or 6-11 record, the proof is in the recent films, because I think we've seen that scenario tried for a while here.
Go Browns. \0 (half-hearted yay)
Posted By: THROW LONG Re: Receiver Position - 07/17/22 03:55 PM
To PrplpplEater: even though I liked your post that said the Browns never had the best WR's in the league; I really liked the Browns receivers in 1994-ish the playoff year, with Micheal Jackson, and D. Alexander, and Metcalf, and others, (McCardell).

and I really liked what they had when Brian Brennan was the #3, (Slaughter, Langhorn,), and the best slot, tight window, sliding catch near the ground, for Kosars' accuracy when that offense was clicking back then.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Receiver Position - 07/17/22 04:09 PM
Originally Posted by oobernoober
Wasn't the narrative (backed up by similar stats) from last year that we had WRs running free all over the place?

I know that cfrs and/or Milk posted some stats about open wide receivers. There were links. I was surprised when I saw the articles mac posted. No sense arguing over which set of stats is more correct. People have their minds made up. See OCD's post.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Receiver Position - 07/17/22 04:14 PM
We've seen your posts too.
Posted By: THROW LONG Re: Receiver Position - 07/17/22 04:16 PM
Originally Posted by Iluvmyxstripper
What's concerning is that the WR room lacks explosive playmakers. I just don't see a WR on this team
That can take a shallow quick slant and just outrun the secondary
Gosh,
I hope that isn't the end all be all hope for an NFL offense.
I don't think that should be the goal of a group of Wr's to take a shallow quick slant and outrun the secondary. That! Won't! Work! I thinks.
dang, because I hear this from the podcasts, the same ones that end up being 6 months ahead of cutting Mayfield,
so maybe those podcasts have some info into the brains of the decisions the team makes. frown frown Frown.

A group of WR's in the NFL isn't supposed to live it's whole bread and butter on catching shallow quick slants.
shallow quick slants? Shallow Quick slants are a necessary evil, they are not even what the forward pass is for.
One should be trying to beat the safety deep, and get behind the whole defense and catch a deep dropping bomb for a touchdown, (at least sometimes!!!) 3-4-5 attempts per game.

Shallow quick slants and outrun the entirety of the NFL defense? In the NFL? really? what do they think this is the USFL?
The NFL has spent hundreds of hundreds of people, giving their whole careers, to preventing that, and they are the best in the world at making sure shallow quick slants don't end up outrunning the whole defense.
(OK, not the whole defense, just the secondary. ) But the LB's and DL's are never behind shallow quick slants?
The Browns often throw shallow quick slants so shallow that they are still behind the line of scrimmage when caught.
I don't get the thinking.
That should not be the goal, that should not be the goal. The Forward pass, travels through the air for a reason, it's not a glorified pitch or handoff.
No wonder this team hasn't been to a Super Bowl since they became super bowls.
Super Bowl teams, can pass the ball deep, they don't make the staple of their diet shallow anything.
Not even the Peyton Manning Broncos, who worked mid level stuff. Not even the Thurman Thomas Bills, I mean, sure they beat the dolphins in a playoff game on screen passes alone, but, they still had Andre ? as a deep threat they used.
Shallow quick slants are not the goal
Shallow quick slants can not be the goal. A team will not be great if it cannot pass the ball downfield at least sometimes.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Receiver Position - 07/17/22 04:27 PM
Originally Posted by Rishuz
--This place is nuts.

Yes, people seem to want to spend a lot of time and paragraphs trolling a player no longer on the team.
Posted By: THROW LONG Re: Receiver Position - 07/17/22 04:29 PM
Originally Posted by oobernoober
Bell getting the love that he has so far is somewhat comforting.
Bell is going to get a lot of love because he is what they eventually settled on to address the need.
It doesn't change the opportunities they passed up to address the need earlier.

Getting a bus ticket to work sure beats walking, so does a bicycle, but neither one is a car.
Posted By: lampdogg Re: Receiver Position - 07/17/22 07:47 PM
But but but... Baker played WR that one time, so I guess he fits in this thread. And I don’t think what he did of didn’t do as a QB affected the stats posted about WRs and how they performed last season.
Posted By: Iluvmyxstripper Re: Receiver Position - 07/17/22 08:33 PM
Originally Posted by THROW LONG
Originally Posted by Iluvmyxstripper
What's concerning is that the WR room lacks explosive playmakers. I just don't see a WR on this team
That can take a shallow quick slant and just outrun the secondary
Gosh,
I hope that isn't the end all be all hope for an NFL offense.
I don't think that should be the goal of a group of Wr's to take a shallow quick slant and outrun the secondary. That! Won't! Work! I thinks.
dang, because I hear this from the podcasts, the same ones that end up being 6 months ahead of cutting Mayfield,
so maybe those podcasts have some info into the brains of the decisions the team makes. frown frown Frown.

A group of WR's in the NFL isn't supposed to live it's whole bread and butter on catching shallow quick slants.
shallow quick slants? Shallow Quick slants are a necessary evil, they are not even what the forward pass is for.
One should be trying to beat the safety deep, and get behind the whole defense and catch a deep dropping bomb for a touchdown, (at least sometimes!!!) 3-4-5 attempts per game.

Shallow quick slants and outrun the entirety of the NFL defense? In the NFL? really? what do they think this is the USFL?
The NFL has spent hundreds of hundreds of people, giving their whole careers, to preventing that, and they are the best in the world at making sure shallow quick slants don't end up outrunning the whole defense.
(OK, not the whole defense, just the secondary. ) But the LB's and DL's are never behind shallow quick slants?
The Browns often throw shallow quick slants so shallow that they are still behind the line of scrimmage when caught.
I don't get the thinking.
That should not be the goal, that should not be the goal. The Forward pass, travels through the air for a reason, it's not a glorified pitch or handoff.
No wonder this team hasn't been to a Super Bowl since they became super bowls.
Super Bowl teams, can pass the ball deep, they don't make the staple of their diet shallow anything.
Not even the Peyton Manning Broncos, who worked mid level stuff. Not even the Thurman Thomas Bills, I mean, sure they beat the dolphins in a playoff game on screen passes alone, but, they still had Andre ? as a deep threat they used.
Shallow quick slants are not the goal
Shallow quick slants can not be the goal. A team will not be great if it cannot pass the ball downfield at least sometimes.
I just presented a example of a very basic route that is the simplest
In the route tree to execute. It's a bang bang play . When was the last time
You saw a Browns WR take a,simple slant and out run the secondary
For 40 plus yards ? Or take a pass, secure it and get massive yds after catch.?
The Browns WRs simply at the moment lack a target That is dangerous
After the catch
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Receiver Position - 07/17/22 09:32 PM
FYI: It was the Baker fan club that introduced Baker into this thread.
Posted By: lampdogg Re: Receiver Position - 07/17/22 10:33 PM
Lol, wasn’t I. It’s just ridiculous that people use threads to throw in their piece about Baker OR DW when they have nothing to do with the discussion.
Posted By: eotab Re: Receiver Position - 07/18/22 03:49 PM
Wont go into detail cause the kid is no longer a Brown. But he was a better QB than most of you think. I also still think the trade was one of the worst in NFL history. Jordan Davis, Garrett, Clowney...you win championships with DEFENSE.

jmho
Posted By: Iluvmyxstripper Re: Receiver Position - 07/18/22 05:18 PM
Originally Posted by eotab
Wont go into detail cause the kid is no longer a Brown. But he was a better QB than most of you think. I also still think the trade was one of the worst in NFL history. Jordan Davis, Garrett, Clowney...you win championships with DEFENSE.

jmho
The trading of Paul Warfield to the Dolphins in 1969
Was a far worse trade.

The 2011 trade of the 6th pick of the draft to the Falcons
For 27,59,124 and 1st RD pick in 2011
Was much much worse

I think if you look at the worst trades in NFL history
The Watson trade doesn't make.the top 5
Posted By: WSU Willie Re: Receiver Position - 07/18/22 06:16 PM
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
FYI: It was the Baker fan club that introduced Baker into this thread.

Does jfanet know he's in the Baker fan club? Or did you just tell another un-truth?
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