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Posted By: oobernoober Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/18/22 06:08 PM
I'm quoting you more as a jumping off point to keep the discussion going.

Originally Posted by PitDAWG
If these four women had any intention of settling, why wouldn't they have settled with the others? It was also reported that there were holdouts on a settlement agreement when watson tried to settle in order to complete the trade with the Dolphins. It sure sounds like these four want their day in court. I hope they get it.

My understanding (and I could be mis-remembering) is the the 4 remaining cases that weren't settled were the more serious allegations.
Posted By: BpG Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/18/22 06:13 PM
More serious than settling as soon as you can for relations you said weren't coerced or forced and even told your child he'd get a pay day if he kept quiet?


I have been saying this for years. "Believe all women" was always a trash ideal, throwing due process in the garbage. Somehow we got to a place in society where women are infallible. Anyone with two rocks rattling around upstairs sees through that trash.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/18/22 06:13 PM
I'm not sure about that one way or the other. What I do know is that this isn't the first time such a settlement was turned down by some of these women. If I had to venture a guess I would think these would be the four cases that are the strongest to present in front of a judge and jury. I don't think what your accusation is makes as much difference as how strong your case would be in court.
Posted By: FrankZ Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/18/22 06:16 PM
Almost infallible.

If they point fingers at the wrong people it gets swept under.

Other than that you are pretty spot on.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/18/22 06:17 PM
I think you should consider changing that to "Believe no women no matter how many of them there are accusing the same man." because in this instance that's exactly what you're insinuating. Anyone with two rocks rattling around upstairs sees through that trash.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/18/22 06:32 PM
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
I'm not sure about that one way or the other. What I do know is that this isn't the first time such a settlement was turned down by some of these women. If I had to venture a guess I would think these would be the four cases that are the strongest to present in front of a judge and jury. I don't think what your accusation is makes as much difference as how strong your case would be in court.

Side note: I'm unclear who turned down who in terms of proposed settlements that went nowhere. At some point or another between when all this kicked off and and the 20 settlements, both sides were soliciting settlement offers that the other rejected.

Again, this is just my recollection, but I thought there were a couple of the accusers who's stories sorta rose to the top in terms of the seriousness of the accusations. I would hope the ones that didn't settle were the strongest cases, as well.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/18/22 07:47 PM
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/18/22 08:00 PM
Which owner got rapey with 30+ women?
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/18/22 08:39 PM
Originally Posted by OldColdDawg
Which owner got rapey with 30+ women?

None, that I know of. Then again, Watson has not been convicted of getting rapey w/30+ women. I do know that there isn't video evidence against him like there is w/Snyder, Kraft, and Jones. I also know that Watson isn't being investigated by Congress.
Posted By: mac Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/18/22 09:03 PM
Quote
mac...I am glad you looked and found the Florio article...I am not saying I believe my story...I made a lot of jumps in suppositions and large assumptions...just want to make that clear...like I said it is a bit conspiratorial...lol...But I wanted to illustrate how close minded we are being by not even considering other scenarios....But again...glad you looked into it!!! (you actually found more than I was expecting and or knew of...LOL)



Pete...thanks for the response and I do understand that there are many points of view concerning what the appropriate punishment might be for Watson. Your viewpoint is welcomed...
Posted By: steve0255 Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/18/22 10:01 PM
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Originally Posted by OldColdDawg
Which owner got rapey with 30+ women?

None, that I know of. Then again, Watson has not been convicted of getting rapey w/30+ women. I do know that there isn't video evidence against him like there is w/Snyder, Kraft, and Jones. I also know that Watson isn't being investigated by Congress.

This is like a broken record coming from you. The NFL "IS NOT" - I repeat "IS NOT" investigating Watson for any crime so PLEASE, stop with the conviction BS. Watson is being investigated for unacceptable conduct. A player violates this policy when he has a disposition of a criminal proceeding (as defined), or if the league’s investigation demonstrates that he engaged in conduct prohibited by the Personal Conduct Policy. In cases where a player is not charged with a crime, or is charged but not convicted, he may still be found to have violated the Policy if the credible evidence establishes that he engaged in conduct prohibited by this Personal Conduct Policy.

Prohibited conduct includes but is not limited to the following:
 Assault and/or battery, including sexual assault or other sex offenses.
 Stalking, harassment, or similar forms of intimidation.
 Conduct that poses a genuine danger to the safety and well-being of another person.
 Conduct that undermines or puts at risk the integrity of the NFL, NFL clubs, or NFL personnel.

There's plenty of under oath depositions from the women with more to come from the Texans, that hasn't been released but Buzbee has mentioned, that clearly shows Watson stalked, harassed, and used intimidation to get his way with the unlicensed massage therapists. We now know of 30 such cases with the possibility of more coming being highly likely. Watson has clearly undermined and put at risk the integrity of the NFL and his NFL teams with his actions. There does not nor has there ever been a need for criminal charges or a conviction but that is still on the table. The issue is the unprecedented pure number of alleged sexual misconduct cases and sexual abuse cases that makes Watson's case the most sensational alleged abuse of women in the history of the NFL. Criminally, there might not be enough evidence as of yet to convince a GJ to issue a criminal indictment but there's clearly enough evidence to pursue civil claims against the Texans and Watson both of which have tried to settle before the real dirty laundry comes out in open court. That doesn't relieve Watson from facing what should be an unprecedented suspension for his misconduct against 30 women (not 1 or 2 which you keep referencing) which is also unprecedented.

But PLEASE, GIVE THE CONVICTION BS A REST!
Posted By: bonefish Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/18/22 10:08 PM
This from Florio today.



Everyone can draw their own conclusions
Posted By: bonefish Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/18/22 10:25 PM
Just asking a question.

30 cases were settled by the Texans. The accusations were against the Texans. Why no investigation by the NFL into the Texans?

Robinson initially looked at 12 cases then settled on four. Why?

Why out of 24 cases four are being reviewed by Robinson?

Posted By: LexDawg Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/18/22 10:41 PM
Originally Posted by steve0255
But PLEASE, GIVE THE CONVICTION BS A REST!

At least the strawman "No Conviction" sounds slightly more intelligent than the strawman "You just like Baker Mayfield."
Posted By: SuperBrown Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/18/22 10:55 PM
Posted By: FL_Dawg Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/18/22 11:16 PM
j/c,

The word "Integrity" and the NFL should never be used in the same sentence.

Carry on...
Posted By: Steubenvillian Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/18/22 11:39 PM
I understand you don't like the situation, but, claiming he raped someone is total BS.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/18/22 11:40 PM
j/c…

Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/18/22 11:56 PM
Quote
But PLEASE, GIVE THE CONVICTION BS A REST!

Watson has not been convicted of a crime. Thus, I will continue to repeat it when folks assign guilt to him. Thus far, all we have are allegations. I understand your are butt hurt because the Browns dumped Baker, but I am not going to stay quiet when you guys act like he has been proven guilty by assigning your mob mentality labels upon him. You don't like it? Too freaking bad!!!

Btw----I understand the Personal Conduct Policy well. I'm the one who introduced it to the board and did a dive into interpreting it. I am also the one who pointed out that the owners were named in that same policy, something you and the other Baker lovers refuse to acknowledge.

You should feel more comfortable at https://www.carolinahuddle.com/forum/7-carolina-panthers/
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/18/22 11:59 PM
The NFL's case is weak.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 12:06 AM
Originally Posted by Milk Man
j/c…


That seems like an odd comment considering the information that the NFLPA has already released. I'm trying to interpret the why of it.

Could a settlement be forthcoming?
Posted By: Steubenvillian Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 12:22 AM
What kills me the most about this whole situation, is that two grand juries found no evidence that a crime was committed. If they did, charges would have been filed. Now, people are going to use the arbitrator's decision as a proof of guilt or innocence. So basically, if Robinson suspends Watson, even for a few games, the press, and many fans on this board will consider him guilty. That is what happens in banana republics. He will be said to have committed a crime, when he clearly, was not charged by a criminal court.

He will basically be charged with giving the NFL a black eye for his actions. No committing a crime. But, just like everything else in this country, he will be judged by media reports, many from outlets who thrive on virtue signaling, and a group of fans who have, in their own minds, convicted him of rape and other charges. IMO, he will never be treated fairly. Buzbee has created a narrative, and the talking heads are buying it hook line and sinker, probably more worried that they will be cancelled for any honest opinion that goes against the "me too" movement and the woke movement.

These are sad times in America. Getting your day in court means nothing anymore.

I don't know Watson did, and neither do any of you. All I know is that if it was as serious as many of you claim, criminal charges would have been levied. I also believe that anybody who actually believes that many of these women were not just looking for a payday are naive. One other thing that bothers me, the use of the term " professional masseuse" when referring to the accusers. These were women who offered personal massages on social media. Having got many full body massages in my life, by licensed masseuses, I can tell you that accidental contact with private areas is not unusual. Heck, maybe I should have filed charges on a couple of them.

My bottom line is, he will get suspended, because the NFL has to show they are "woke". And a man who might have asked for more than what was offered, but never forced anything, will be charged by the public for crime, when clearly the judicial system found none.
Posted By: THROW LONG Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 12:31 AM
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
The NFL's case is weak.
Does that matter. I think it does not.
( I think that when it comes to these supreme court justice types, they poke holes in one side of the arugment during the oral arguments, then later rule in favor of the side they poked holes in. Since it seems to have been reported that they sort of poked holes in the NFL's case, I wouldn't be surprised if the ruling is closer to what the NFL's side was asking for than what would be guessed by how the arguments went.)
Posted By: steve0255 Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 12:36 AM
Originally Posted by bonefish
Just asking a question.

30 cases were settled by the Texans. The accusations were against the Texans. Why no investigation by the NFL into the Texans?

Robinson initially looked at 12 cases then settled on four. Why?

Why out of 24 cases four are being reviewed by Robinson?


IMHO, the reason that Robinson only looked at 12 cases and settled on four is because if you read the reports on the depositions, the thing that stood out was the common theme of Watson demanding using a small towel instead of the standard sheet that inevitably led to it falling off thus exposing himself while directing the masseuses to work in that area and trying to make them touch it. IMHO, the cases were originally reduced to 12 that had extra or different types of misconduct where Judge Robinson eventually reduced to 4 unique situations to take under advisement. It made no sense putting all 24 cases on the table for review that would just be redundant when there were only four in total that contained unique differences or additional misconduct. I have never bought into the fact that she is only looking at 4 cases, she is looking at 24 cases of sexual misconduct of which 4 contain unique or additional misconduct or alleged assault.

As far as the Texans go, I have not seen an official report from the NFL that the case is closed against the Texans. I've read posts here saying that, and I think one poster said it was reported by one writer, but I don't believe the NFL has officially said the case was closed against the Texans. If I'm correct, why all the hoopla?
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 12:46 AM
Originally Posted by Steubenvillian
What kills me the most about this whole situation, is that two grand juries found no evidence that a crime was committed.

I can't believe that this has to still be said at this point, but that is not necessarily a true statement.
A lack of indictment is NOT an acquittal, it is NOT a statement of innocence. It simply means that they chose not to indict and it can be for a variety of reasons, and is often as simple as the prosecutor feels the case isn't strong enough to get a conviction.

I know it's strange for folks to think about, but people do bad things and get away with it ALL THE TIME. A lack of an indictment from the grand juries does NOT mean that this is not one of those instances.
Posted By: steve0255 Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 01:06 AM
Originally Posted by LexDawg
Originally Posted by steve0255
But PLEASE, GIVE THE CONVICTION BS A REST!

At least the strawman "No Conviction" sounds slightly more intelligent than the strawman "You just like Baker Mayfield."
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Quote
But PLEASE, GIVE THE CONVICTION BS A REST!

Watson has not been convicted of a crime. Thus, I will continue to repeat it when folks assign guilt to him. Thus far, all we have are allegations. I understand your are butt hurt because the Browns dumped Baker, but I am not going to stay quiet when you guys act like he has been proven guilty by assigning your mob mentality labels upon him. You don't like it? Too freaking bad!!!

Btw----I understand the Personal Conduct Policy well. I'm the one who introduced it to the board and did a dive into interpreting it. I am also the one who pointed out that the owners were named in that same policy, something you and the other Baker lovers refuse to acknowledge.

You should feel more comfortable at https://www.carolinahuddle.com/forum/7-carolina-panthers/

I so love how you guys continue to try to make it a Baker thing instead of the actions of a single man taking advantage of 30 women. Hey News Flash, Big Ben 6-game suspension reduced to 4 after receiving medical treatment - no conviction, accused of 1 less sexual assault and 24 less sexual misconducts than Watson. Hunt 8-game suspension for a single event - no conviction, accused of 23 less misconducts and 2 less sexual assaults than Watson. Elliott 6-game suspension for single event - no conviction, accused of 23 less misconducts and 2 less sexual assaults than Watson. This is not mob mentality; these are the freaking FACTS Vers. NOBODY is saying Watson is guilty of anything criminal. What people are saying is he violated the PCP and unless you're deaf and dumb, Watson has violated the PCP at an unprecedented level never experienced in the NFL. Since you want to make it personal, if you don't like what I'm saying it's TOO FREAKING BAD!

Personally, I'm not sure you understand anything going on with Watson and the PCP. You can also take your Baker's lover BS and shove it where the sun don't shine. Baker is not a member of the Browns anymore. Us Browns fans are left to deal with our new franchise QB that's setting a new unprecedented low for taking advantage of women as a player from the NFL and you're supporting him.

You'd feel more comfortable at the Cuyahoga County Jail talking with them because you'd find out the vast majority of those people will swear they're innocent too.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 01:13 AM
Everyone knows that. However, too many people are assigning guilt to Watson. Folks like steve branding him a sexual deviant. Others are saying he is a predator or rapey. So, to counter your argument.........I can't believe that this has to be said at this point, but being taken to civil court to extract money from an individual does not prove that the said individual is actually guilty.
Posted By: Steubenvillian Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 01:19 AM
My point is that there wasn't enough evidence to charge him with a crime. Innocence and guilt don't have a place where there is no crime. My point is that people will using the decision as proof of guilt. She is not judging innocence or guilt; she is judging this on guidelines set forth by the league. People are acting as if she is judging him for a crime, when criminality has nothing to do with what she is pondering. I guarantee that if she gives no suspension, Goodell will step in and do it. The whole reason she was hired by the league, was to give the appearance of having a neutral observer way the actions and decide the punishment. Thus not making Goodell look like a tyrant and being fair. Mark my words, if the suspension is light, or nothing at all, Goodell will fold to the social media mob. Him just having the ability to override her judgement makes the whole process a sham.
Posted By: FATE Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 01:19 AM
Originally Posted by PrplPplEater
Originally Posted by Steubenvillian
What kills me the most about this whole situation, is that two grand juries found no evidence that a crime was committed.

I can't believe that this has to still be said at this point, but that is not necessarily a true statement.
A lack of indictment is NOT an acquittal, it is NOT a statement of innocence. It simply means that they chose not to indict and it can be for a variety of reasons, and is often as simple as the prosecutor feels the case isn't strong enough to get a conviction.

I know it's strange for folks to think about, but people do bad things and get away with it ALL THE TIME. A lack of an indictment from the grand juries does NOT mean that this is not one of those instances.

It's like talking to a wall. Most of these peeps have their fingers in their ears and will (purposely) not hear a word.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 01:20 AM
You are an emotional little fella.

You scream at me to stop saying something. I respond. You freak out and say "if you don't like what I'm saying it's TOO FREAKING BAD!" stevie, you are the one who called me out earlier. I didn't say a word to you. I expressed my opinions w/out even mentioning you or insulting another poster. You reply w/out of the blue with "But PLEASE, GIVE THE CONVICTION BS A REST!"

Maybe you should take a step back, calm yourself, and realize that your use of capital letters and outrageous demands have no effect on me. I will post my opinions on this situation and as a Browns fan...........I sure as hell don't feel guilty defending one of our players and calling out the NFL for their bias. Your faux outrage won't change that. Get your last word in, but I'm done w/your childish rants for the evening.
Posted By: FATE Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 01:23 AM
Originally Posted by steve0255
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Originally Posted by OldColdDawg
Which owner got rapey with 30+ women?

None, that I know of. Then again, Watson has not been convicted of getting rapey w/30+ women. I do know that there isn't video evidence against him like there is w/Snyder, Kraft, and Jones. I also know that Watson isn't being investigated by Congress.

This is like a broken record coming from you. The NFL "IS NOT" - I repeat "IS NOT" investigating Watson for any crime so PLEASE, stop with the conviction BS. Watson is being investigated for unacceptable conduct.

You're wasting your time. You're talking to someone who seems to very, very, VERY shallow-minded in understanding how the NFL conduct code works.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 01:27 AM
Quote
It's like talking to a wall. Most of these peeps have their fingers in their ears and will (purposely) not hear a word.



[Linked Image from media.giphy.com]
Posted By: Steubenvillian Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 01:29 AM
"A lack of indictment is NOT an acquittal, it is NOT a statement of innocence"

It is not a statement of guilt either. If you are not charged with a crime, innocence or guilt are a moot point. But, in this country, it is supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. So if he was charged by the GJ, how many would suggest that it doesn't mean he is guilty? They viewed the evidence and decided there was nothing to charge him with, I would have to say that leans more towards innocence, but I get your point.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 01:36 AM
You are talking to guys who refuse to listen to reason. They think that Civil Court charges automatically means one is guilty. LMAO.......it's so freaking absurd because they get bent out of shape if you don't join in on the witch hunt and act like respecting the laws of the land is a bad thing.
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 01:41 AM
Name the posters that think that OR STOP SAYING IT. Jellyfish show more spine. Sideways cheap digs and the crying victim are your things. We see it every damn day.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 01:48 AM
Quote
STOP SAYING IT.

Stop acting that way and I'll stop saying it. I didn't even need to yell. LOL



Quote
Jellyfish show more spine. Sideways cheap digs and the crying victim are your things. We see it every damn day.

We. That's a popular word that comes out of the mob's mouth.
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 06:18 AM
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Originally Posted by OCD
STOP SAYING IT.


Stop acting that way and I'll stop saying it. I didn't even need to yell. LOL

LOL is right, you finally manned up and admitted you were talking about me. I hope it felt good enough to end your little sideways attacks. I don't care if you come at me, but don't act like that. There are enough mean-girl types in the world, we're too damn old to be adding to that crap.



Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Originally Posted by OCD
Jellyfish show more spine. Sideways cheap digs and the crying victim are your things. We see it every damn day.

We. That's a popular word that comes out of the mob's mouth.

It's a popular English word. I'm pretty sure everyone uses it. But yes, we usually stick together because we believe generally the same things. But don't pretend we don't also go at each other. The problem is bruh, you can dish it out but can't take it. And lately, you've been a mob of one, so people are coming at you from all angles. SURPRISE, most of those people don't even know the 3 or 4 of us that talk off the board or pm back and forth. The conspiracy is about 95% in your head. The only real time we come to shut you down is when you are doing something off the hook, like threatening noobs in PMs. And please don't try to deny that, I've heard it from three of them, all completely unconnected in when they came here and who they chat with. Hell, they rarely post because of you. Who even does that? Smh.
Posted By: IrishDawg42 Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 10:25 AM
Originally Posted by BpG
More serious than settling as soon as you can for relations you said weren't coerced or forced and even told your child he'd get a pay day if he kept quiet?


I have been saying this for years. "Believe all women" was always a trash ideal, throwing due process in the garbage. Somehow we got to a place in society where women are infallible. Anyone with two rocks rattling around upstairs sees through that trash.

Still missing the point of the Conduct Policy. It isn’t about criminal charges, it is about personal choices that put you in situations that shed a negative light on yourself and the league. In this case, the acts of meeting up with at least 66 women under the guise of getting a massage, some licensed-some not licensed, then having 30 of them bring forth allegations of misconduct during something you are stated was a business deal. That alone is a violation of the conduct policy. We haven’t even talked about the allegations yet and he is already in violation.

As to your specific post, the woman you reference as telling her son information allegedly, is not even part of the NFL policy investigation. She is not a part of the 24 cases that were filed against Watson. I cannot confirm she isn’t part of the 30 that the Texans settled with, but what was confirmed is that she was never a part of any of the suits against st Watson. So that piece of false information doesn’t hold any merit in these discussions.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 10:31 AM
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Originally Posted by Milk Man
j/c…


That seems like an odd comment considering the information that the NFLPA has already released. I'm trying to interpret the why of it.

Could a settlement be forthcoming?

This is why I have said that that the NFL and Watson have asked, or been instructed by Robinson to come to an agreement, thus the delay in announcing a decision.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 10:56 AM
"IMO."

So like everyone we still don't know.

A decision will be made. I will accept it. I have felt all along that this is not about justice. There are way to many elements at play to be about justice.

This is about money and compromise. What took place will be lost.

I am glad that there was no evidence of physical assault and violence. Whatever happened it seems like money is a cure. In the end I hope those involved are good with the decision.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 11:22 AM


As we deal with our day the two sides are trying to reach a settlement.

When that is reached they can all say we tried to be fair.

Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 12:18 PM
OCD, you are just one of the handful I am referring to. What's wild is you guys get so offended when I take almost the same exact words that one of you will say and just switch the names around. You guys have run so many posters off this board w/your bullying techniques. And your claim about PMs is a flat-out lie.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 12:27 PM
Originally Posted by bonefish


As we deal with our day the two sides are trying to reach a settlement.

When that is reached they can all say we tried to be fair.



I wonder if people who arguing that Watson deserves to be severely punished ever take the time to listen to these videos or read the articles on it?

I'd be okay w/a settlement if it is 2 or even 4 games just to put an end to the drama, but I still think the NFL's case is extremely weak and that Watson doesn't deserve to be punished.
Posted By: IrishDawg42 Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 12:46 PM
Originally Posted by bonefish
"IMO."

So like everyone we still don't know.

A decision will be made. I will accept it. I have felt all along that this is not about justice. There are way to many elements at play to be about justice.

This is about money and compromise. What took place will be lost.

I am glad that there was no evidence of physical assault and violence. Whatever happened it seems like money is a cure. In the end I hope those involved are good with the decision.

That last sentence is something I think ALL Browns fans can agree with. At some point we all have to come to terms with what we will never know happened, however, the fact there are no allegations of physical assault or violence is something we can at least use in moving on once the decision and healing(for lack of a better term) commences.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 01:14 PM
That is where this whole thing is.

What happened? Sex. We can look at that through any lens. Money. People are going to get paid.

So in the end since there will be no decision on who is guilty or innocent. Just people going home with less money or more money.

We can all decide for ourselves how we want to go forward. Take whatever road you choose.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 01:23 PM
j/c:

One thing that may be bad news for Watson and the Browns is that Brady and Elliot both took their cases to Federal Court and the NFL won. Of course, this was before the Snyder, Kraft, and Jones cases were in the picture.
Posted By: eotab Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 02:16 PM
I probably will get crucified but its my honest opinion and I won't go Woke and phony. I believe in Chivalry yes women are physically the weaker sex. It doesn't mean they cannot dominate situations. I do feel its the duty of all men to protect women. Would I back a woman President...100% when I say the word weaker it doesn't mean they can't lead. But we men must protect them physically. The young woman (an Olympian athlete) got beat with a pipe she should have been protected. Women get abused sexually at a high rate and their first impression they take away with it is it was their fault. They did something wrong. That has to stop, we must protect them. It doesn't mean to believe them blindly. But we should take all accusations seriously and those who out right lied to get an edge with children or revenge...they should be prosecuted. But the vast majority are telling the truth and they should be believed after some easy detective work.

Crap sugars dropping under 50 I got to go....
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 03:34 PM

Lolz.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 03:42 PM
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
OCD, you are just one of the handful I am referring to. What's wild is you guys get so offended when I take almost the same exact words that one of you will say and just switch the names around. You guys have run so many posters off this board w/your bullying techniques. And your claim about PMs is a flat-out lie.

Funny thing is I have seen multiple posters who write infrequently mention that they don't post often and they have mentioned a poster here who acts as a bully .... They all mentioned the same posters, none of them mentioned OCD. I'm betting people will know who was named.
Posted By: IrishDawg42 Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 04:05 PM
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Originally Posted by bonefish


As we deal with our day the two sides are trying to reach a settlement.

When that is reached they can all say we tried to be fair.



I wonder if people who arguing that Watson deserves to be severely punished ever take the time to listen to these videos or read the articles on it?

I'd be okay w/a settlement if it is 2 or even 4 games just to put an end to the drama, but I still think the NFL's case is extremely weak and that Watson doesn't deserve to be punished.

I read the articles on both sides, I watch the videos and I still believe the argument against Watson not playing for an entire year is extremely compelling. I know you believe in your mind you are "giving a little" by saying 2-4 games would be "ok", but that doesn't change what we all feel.

BTW, reports out this morning is that the review has finished and the most likely outcome from Judge Robinson is between 2-8 games. Then the appeal process, if there is one.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 04:16 PM
Originally Posted by bonefish


As we deal with our day the two sides are trying to reach a settlement.

When that is reached they can all say we tried to be fair.


This is based on the notion that the NFL brought no evidence of coercion/etc to the NFL conduct hearings. Pit wants to refute this based on the fact that this nugget is tied to anonymous sources. I disagree with his take, but it is true that it could be wrong in that we don't know the source. Pit, feel free to correct (not that I need to tell/let you).

Do we know if the briefs filed by the 2 sides are supposed to be made public?
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 04:16 PM
j/c:



[Linked Image from i.imgflip.com]
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 04:17 PM
Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie

Irrelevant? Their policy has become a joke.


willynilly
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 04:19 PM
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie

Irrelevant? Their policy has become a joke.


willynilly


Always was and (apparently) always will be.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 04:19 PM
Originally Posted by oobernoober
Originally Posted by bonefish


As we deal with our day the two sides are trying to reach a settlement.

When that is reached they can all say we tried to be fair.


This is based on the notion that the NFL brought no evidence of coercion/etc to the NFL conduct hearings. Pit wants to refute this based on the fact that this nugget is tied to anonymous sources. I disagree with his take, but it is true that it could be wrong in that we don't know the source.

Do we know if the briefs filed by the 2 sides are supposed to be made public?

I highly doubt it. Nothing else has been in a public forum.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 04:21 PM
I don't expect her decision to come this week. I'm hoping for next week before camp opens, but it wouldn't be surprising if she doesn't rule until the following week.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 04:25 PM
Originally Posted by Ballpeen
Originally Posted by oobernoober
Originally Posted by bonefish


As we deal with our day the two sides are trying to reach a settlement.

When that is reached they can all say we tried to be fair.


This is based on the notion that the NFL brought no evidence of coercion/etc to the NFL conduct hearings. Pit wants to refute this based on the fact that this nugget is tied to anonymous sources. I disagree with his take, but it is true that it could be wrong in that we don't know the source.

Do we know if the briefs filed by the 2 sides are supposed to be made public?

I highly doubt it. Nothing else has been in a public forum.

I don't know the answer, but peen is probably correct. I did hear Florio say that Robinson will probably make the details of her ruling public, but I don't know if that is true or not. I'm sure there are details many want to hear, but there could be some nasty details exposed if her decision is made public.
Posted By: FrankZ Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 04:27 PM
I agree. As far as the NFl and Watson are concerned this is basically a matter of employee discipline.
Posted By: LexDawg Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 04:30 PM
Originally Posted by mgh888
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
OCD, you are just one of the handful I am referring to. What's wild is you guys get so offended when I take almost the same exact words that one of you will say and just switch the names around. You guys have run so many posters off this board w/your bullying techniques. And your claim about PMs is a flat-out lie.

Funny thing is I have seen multiple posters who write infrequently mention that they don't post often and they have mentioned a poster here who acts as a bully .... They all mentioned the same posters, none of them mentioned OCD. I'm betting people will know who was named.

If I answer correctly will I get a year supply of Turtle Wax? smile
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 04:42 PM
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
The NFL's case is weak.

According to some unconfirmed source that spoke to Florio.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 04:46 PM
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
You are an emotional little fella.

Then we have the rest of that post. Oh the irony. But this is what always happens when you keep posting during your cocktail hour.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 04:54 PM
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
You guys have run so many posters off this board w/your bullying techniques.

Receipts?

Quote
And your claim about PMs is a flat-out lie.

A lot of people have made the same claim. I guess they must all be lying. No wonder you claim 26 women are lying.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 04:56 PM
Originally Posted by Ballpeen
Originally Posted by oobernoober
Originally Posted by bonefish


As we deal with our day the two sides are trying to reach a settlement.

When that is reached they can all say we tried to be fair.


This is based on the notion that the NFL brought no evidence of coercion/etc to the NFL conduct hearings. Pit wants to refute this based on the fact that this nugget is tied to anonymous sources. I disagree with his take, but it is true that it could be wrong in that we don't know the source.

Do we know if the briefs filed by the 2 sides are supposed to be made public?

I highly doubt it. Nothing else has been in a public forum.

That was my assumption as well, but I haven't read either way how it'll be.
Posted By: hitt Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 05:10 PM
Agree, 100%. The roads taken- one branch- innocent until proved guilty and second branch- guilty until proven innocent. IF the judge in this case considers how the owners have NEVER been held to a higher standard, then DW should have no suspension. Right or wrong- that's the proper outcome, JMHO.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 05:12 PM
Originally Posted by oobernoober
This is based on the notion that the NFL brought no evidence of coercion/etc to the NFL conduct hearings. Pit wants to refute this based on the fact that this nugget is tied to anonymous sources. I disagree with his take, but it is true that it could be wrong in that we don't know the source. Pit, feel free to correct (not that I need to tell/let you).

No, you don't need to tell me that. lol

It's actually not about being an anonymous report as much as it's about perception. I've explained this several times but will yet once again.

We see it on this very board. Different people hear the exact same thing and come to a totally different conclusion as to what that means. Some see it as he said/she said and consider anything that the women have claimed as having no evidentiary value. While others do. I could list several such examples of the differing perceptions on this very board people have concluded based on the same information. Then I think people must consider the logic of such a statement. If the NFL has no actual evidence, why were there three days of hearings? Why would there be a judgement that takes a former judge so long to revue the evidence in order to render a decision?

Sometimes things just don't add up and I think this happens to be one of those times.
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 06:38 PM
Originally Posted by Steubenvillian
"A lack of indictment is NOT an acquittal, it is NOT a statement of innocence"

It is not a statement of guilt either. If you are not charged with a crime, innocence or guilt are a moot point. But, in this country, it is supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. So if he was charged by the GJ, how many would suggest that it doesn't mean he is guilty? They viewed the evidence and decided there was nothing to charge him with, I would have to say that leans more towards innocence, but I get your point.

Correct, and last I checked, nobody was ever claiming it to be such. I was addressing people that keep holding up the lack of indictment as evidence of him "not having committed a crime", and it absolutely is NOT the case.

The grand juries' decisions have ZERO implications regarding his guilt -or- innocence. As long as people can get this through their skulls and stop trying to hold it up as meaning anything at all other than they didn't feel they had enough to pursue prosecution, then I don't need to re-post what I wrote.

"Innocent until proven guilty" applies to the trial process. It has absolutely nothing at all to do with any other aspect. Not the media. Not Joe Smith on the street talking to his buddy. Nothing. People discussing how they feel about it are NOT bound by that, at all. We are not courts. For some, what they've read in the accusations is enough to form an opinion that, at the very least, the dude is a scumbag. For others, they look at the accusations and the testimony and they feel there isn't enough there. Period.
Posted By: DogNDC Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 07:30 PM
Originally Posted by PrplPplEater
Originally Posted by Steubenvillian
"A lack of indictment is NOT an acquittal, it is NOT a statement of innocence"

It is not a statement of guilt either. If you are not charged with a crime, innocence or guilt are a moot point. But, in this country, it is supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. So if he was charged by the GJ, how many would suggest that it doesn't mean he is guilty? They viewed the evidence and decided there was nothing to charge him with, I would have to say that leans more towards innocence, but I get your point.

Correct, and last I checked, nobody was ever claiming it to be such. I was addressing people that keep holding up the lack of indictment as evidence of him "not having committed a crime", and it absolutely is NOT the case.

The grand juries' decisions have ZERO implications regarding his guilt -or- innocence. As long as people can get this through their skulls and stop trying to hold it up as meaning anything at all other than they didn't feel they had enough to pursue prosecution, then I don't need to re-post what I wrote.

"Innocent until proven guilty" applies to the trial process. It has absolutely nothing at all to do with any other aspect. Not the media. Not Joe Smith on the street talking to his buddy. Nothing. People discussing how they feel about it are NOT bound by that, at all. We are not courts. For some, what they've read in the accusations is enough to form an opinion that, at the very least, the dude is a scumbag. For others, they look at the accusations and the testimony and they feel there isn't enough there. Period.

Purple,
A grand jury decision is based off can the prosecutor convince a jury that a there is enough evidence that the state has compiled to determine if criminal charges SHOULD be brought. 2 different grand juries said NO!!!.. That is why the lawyer for those women went the civil route. So what this does say is that Watson did not do anything that could be CRIMINALLY charged.

Now link that with the NFL only bringing 5 cases to the arbitrator and even then found no evidence of violence, threats or physical conduct... the NFL needs to settle and get out of there!!
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 07:35 PM
Originally Posted by DogNDC
Now link that with the NFL only bringing 5 cases to the arbitrator and even then found no evidence of violence, threats or physical conduct... the NFL needs to settle and get out of there!!

Why do I keep needing to remind people that this is an unnamed source that has no bearing on the outcome of the case based on his opinion?
Posted By: DogNDC Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 07:42 PM
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Originally Posted by DogNDC
Now link that with the NFL only bringing 5 cases to the arbitrator and even then found no evidence of violence, threats or physical conduct... the NFL needs to settle and get out of there!!

Why do I keep needing to remind people that this is an unnamed source that has no bearing on the outcome of the case based on his opinion?

Pit, we know they did not bring 24 or 66 cases to the judge. Also, the ones that settled cannot be brought in so how many does that leave?? Again, the NFL case is weak. Everyone talks about Snyder or Kraft when the real problem is the Texans!! You know, the ownership that provided the rooms and the NDA forms. Goodell is praying that judge says anything over 8 games because if she comes back with anything from 4-8, the NFL will back down.
Posted By: DogNDC Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 07:48 PM
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Originally Posted by bonefish


As we deal with our day the two sides are trying to reach a settlement.

When that is reached they can all say we tried to be fair.



I wonder if people who arguing that Watson deserves to be severely punished ever take the time to listen to these videos or read the articles on it?

I'd be okay w/a settlement if it is 2 or even 4 games just to put an end to the drama, but I still think the NFL's case is extremely weak and that Watson doesn't deserve to be punished.

Vers,
If you ever notice most of the "Hang em High" or the "HE did something" never give any link, article..etc of anything remotely concrete. Its just their opinion.. yada...yada..yada!! And now that more information is coming out, they cannot back away from their original, non- knowing opinion! I have no idea what that judge will come back with but everyone can see that the NFL case is weak right now. I would not be surprised if the NFL tries to settle an 6-8 game suspension by training camp
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 07:53 PM
Could you then explain to me why it's taking a retired judge weeks to sift through the evidence to come to a conclusion if the NFL's case "is weak"? I will also ask you what do other cases have to do with watson? You seem to have this all figured out when even a retired judge is combing through the three days of testimony. It appears with the time being spent coming to a conclusion by Robinson it must not be as weak as you believe it is.

It seems as though you are pointing your fingers more towards the Texans for things they did because they felt watson may have been guilty than you are the man they felt the need to protect. That seems more than a little odd to me.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 07:56 PM


...claiming that a case in which a retired judge is spending weeks deciding while combing through the evidence is "weak". You do realize that defies common sense, right?
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 08:07 PM
They don't want to listen to reason and continue to create false narratives. Assigning labels like rapey, predator, sexual deviant while continually talking about the number of women who must be lying is assigning guilt.

I also don't think that anyone is saying Watson is innocent because the GJ didn't indict him. However, it's not like it's sure as hell doesn't point to his guilt. And the cases in Civil Court do not mean he's guilty, either. The only good thing is that they will be miserable when the Browns are winning games while those of us who are more level-headed will be enjoying the ride.
Posted By: DogNDC Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 08:11 PM
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Could you then explain to me why it's taking a retired judge weeks to sift through the evidence to come to a conclusion if the NFL's case "is weak"? I will also ask you what do other cases have to do with watson? You seem to have this all figured out when even a retired judge is combing through the three days of testimony. It appears with the time being spent coming to a conclusion by Robinson it must not be as weak as you believe it is.

It seems as though you are pointing your fingers more towards the Texans for things they did because they felt watson may have been guilty than you are the man they felt the need to protect. That seems more than a little odd to me.

Any good arbitrator is going to take their time and look at all the evidence. Or even the lack of evidence and then write up what and where the law applies. And yes, she will look at any precedence the NFL has done in the past. So taking her time is not a big deal. And we know that Watson did not commit any crime so he is up right now.

And how ever hard she comes down on Watson, the NFL will have to do something about the Texans. Why, because they were accomplices. The Texans cannot say they knew nothing about what was going on ..(* even though they are trying too *). SO if Watson sues, then he gets to tell the tale of how the Texans supported him!!!.. So you got Snyder investigation which was so bad the NFL had their investigators NOT WRITE DOWN WHAT THEY FOUND... Then my boy Kraft (* I would not bring myself to punish a 80 yr old for going to get one rubbed out *) and now the Texans helping Watson.....

Better settle this quick!
Posted By: DogNDC Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 08:20 PM
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
They don't want to listen to reason and continue to create false narratives. Assigning labels like rapey, predator, sexual deviant while continually talking about the number of women who must be lying is assigning guilt.

I also don't think that anyone is saying Watson is innocent because the GJ didn't indict him. However, it's not like it's sure as hell doesn't point to his guilt. And the cases in Civil Court do not mean he's guilty, either. The only good thing is that they will be miserable when the Browns are winning games while those of us who are more level-headed will be enjoying the ride.

Vers
Is Watson pretty creepy = Yea!!... But being creepy aint a crime. Once you lose on the no coersion, no violence, no physical restraint... what is left?? League policy on conduct or maybe bringing bad light to league... Which gets blown up by the owners conduct... Hell look up how the Cowboys had to settle their case with the cowboys cheerleaders...

Also what people forget, Goodell is paid to protect the league and the owners. DO you think they want ANY case against an owner going to open court?? My answer is NO
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 08:34 PM
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
It's actually not about being an anonymous report as much as it's about perception. I've explained this several times but will yet once again.

We see it on this very board. Different people hear the exact same thing and come to a totally different conclusion as to what that means. Some see it as he said/she said and consider anything that the women have claimed as having no evidentiary value. While others do. I could list several such examples of the differing perceptions on this very board people have concluded based on the same information. Then I think people must consider the logic of such a statement. If the NFL has no actual evidence, why were there three days of hearings? Why would there be a judgement that takes a former judge so long to revue the evidence in order to render a decision?

Sometimes things just don't add up and I think this happens to be one of those times.

I think it's a good thing you repeated your angle. I agree with you that it makes no sense. Aside from that, we disagree. The way I read your statement, you conclude that the source with knowledge of the situation must be confused/wrong because how could the NFL push so hard with so little. You've made up your mind that Watson is guilty, so your interpretation of the 'no evidence' statement fits that. For me, the NFL not putting forward any evidence fits my assumptions of this being a total clownshow.

Regarding your question of what they could be doing this whole time if no evidence is put forward.... I dunno... crafting a convincing argument with nothing tangible to back it up probably takes a lot of effort.
I am so tired of this saga. I just want to hear her brief and try to glean what I can from that.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 08:43 PM
I think the argument that this is taking too long is crazy. Of course, she should take her time. Also, I'm sure the both sides presented a TON of "evidence." Most of it was probably what the women had to say from the NFL. Not sure what Watson's camp had to offer other than denials and explanations of what did occur. However, none of that changes the fact that there were only the cases of 4 women that were presented to Judge Robinson. What does that tell you about the rest of the cases? Also, the statement about no violence and coercion is strong. There was one other part to that, but I can't remember it. Was it force? This is why I think the NFL's case is weak.

That does not mean that I believe Sue Robinson won't punish him. I have no idea how she will rule. I just feel better about Watson's chances as more information has come out.
Posted By: IrishDawg42 Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 08:45 PM
Originally Posted by hitt
Agree, 100%. The roads taken- one branch- innocent until proved guilty and second branch- guilty until proven innocent. IF the judge in this case considers how the owners have NEVER been held to a higher standard, then DW should have no suspension. Right or wrong- that's the proper outcome, JMHO.

What owner/team other than Robert Kraft had an incident that wasn't punished?
Posted By: archbolddawg Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 08:47 PM


Pretty much where I am now.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 09:02 PM
I miss Tom and the Heartbreakers.

Love that band
Posted By: superbowldogg Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 09:57 PM
So, I am of the opinion that Watson is a creep.
I think it seems like he paid the women to do extras or convinced them to do more.
I haven't really seen anything different except maybe 1-2 cases. In fact, it seems like most of them serviced Watson multiple times.
Many of the accusers were bragging to others about having Watson as a customer after these extra services happened.

If I worked with him, I'd probably want him fired - I just don't know if the company (or most companies) I worked for would fire him.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 10:27 PM
A topical discussion.

Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 11:06 PM
Thanks for posting that. I'm glad that others see things the way some of us have been saying for awhile.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 11:09 PM
Here is another video that aligns what oober was addressing.


Posted By: lampdogg Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 11:10 PM
Nice one, I laughed.

Edit: sorry, that was directed to arch’s video.


I believe he’ll get less than eight games.
Posted By: Steubenvillian Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 11:23 PM
I see a four game deal, like Ben got
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 11:24 PM
The threat of the class action suit is huge.
Posted By: Steubenvillian Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 11:26 PM
The league wants no part of something like that
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/19/22 11:54 PM
Back to the Watson situation. The points made by the one dude about race are real. The class action suit has to scare the NFL. Their biased decision making would come back to haunt them. Their case is weak as can be. The one guy made a good point about how it was the NFLPA who leaked the no violence, no coercion quote. Makes sense. I agreed w/the other point about how the NFL might have to accept some backlash if Watson gets off w/a minimal suspension because the alternative would be much worse and the outrage over Watson will die down soon. Most Browns fans are already turning and are supporting Watson....at least in regards to reading the Comments sections of all these articles and videos. With the NFL's history of treating blacks unfairly, the class action suit has to scare the crap out of them. Remember, Flores suit. It's still out there. It will be best for the NFL to cut its losses and not pursue a severe punishment of Watson. Great news for us Browns fans. Not great news for those who have turned their backs on the Browns.
Posted By: steve0255 Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 12:52 AM
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Back to the Watson situation. The points made by the one dude about race are real. The class action suit has to scare the NFL. Their biased decision making would come back to haunt them. Their case is weak as can be. The one guy made a good point about how it was the NFLPA who leaked the no violence, no coercion quote. Makes sense. I agreed w/the other point about how the NFL might have to accept some backlash if Watson gets off w/a minimal suspension because the alternative would be much worse and the outrage over Watson will die down soon. Most Browns fans are already turning and are supporting Watson....at least in regards to reading the Comments sections of all these articles and videos. With the NFL's history of treating blacks unfairly, the class action suit has to scare the crap out of them. Remember, Flores suit. It's still out there. It will be best for the NFL to cut its losses and not pursue a severe punishment of Watson. Great news for us Browns fans. Not great news for those who have turned their backs on the Browns.


There's been a lot of back and forth on this subject for months. Most of the dispute has been civilized though hotly contested by both sides from time to time. Some cheap shots have been taken and some received but most were pointed at the difference of opinion. Sometimes that is what's needed to have a spirited debate. Whether you're sided with a player who you believe of great character, or the other questioning that character, each side has a god given right to have their own personal belief as to what is right or wrong morally.

However, IMHO, people are reaching for a new low when they start questioning the individuals support of the team because they question the character of Watson. I guess it can safely be said then that after listening to you for 4-years bashing the hell out of our previous QB you actually had turned your back on the Browns. Now that you have someone different, you want to classify any other fan to the same category you placed yourself in the last 4-years. Well, no TY, I'm going to be here every week questioning his character and play as loyal Browns Fans should and what it does to the reputation of the team so many have loved for a lifetime. You see, questions may be asked and FO moves be questioned but we have never turned our backs like you did for 4-years (per your guideline) and now so easily try to pull others down to your level. Well - No Thank You.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 12:55 AM
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Could you then explain to me why it's taking a retired judge weeks to sift through the evidence to come to a conclusion if the NFL's case "is weak"?

Beyond being thorough, I think she is encouraging the two sides to come to an agreement. Much like in a divorce settlement, the court many times tries to get the two sides to reach agreement rather than render a decree.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 01:14 AM
Somehow, the mob will say that I started another fight w/you.

For the record, I never turned my back on the Browns. I still rooted for them. I left the board once not because I wasn't rooting for the team, but because I got tired of the personal attacks from the Baker fan club.

You do what you want. I don't care. You can keep on w/your continued criticism of me and others will join you. You can question his character every week. Who freaking cares? Enjoy your misery. I'll be dancing after each victory no matter what you do because we finally have a good QB. Enjoy!
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 01:19 AM
Originally Posted by Ballpeen
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Could you then explain to me why it's taking a retired judge weeks to sift through the evidence to come to a conclusion if the NFL's case "is weak"?

Beyond being thorough, I think she is encouraging the two sides to come to an agreement. Much like in a divorce settlement, the court many times tries to get the two sides to reach agreement rather than render a decree.

The taking her time take is so freaking weak. If she would have ruled quickly and decided on no suspension or a very small one, the haters would be screaming about how the whole process was rigged and the NFL doesn't care about women.

Btw........just watch........they will still do the same if Sue Robinson doesn't suspend Watson for a long time. They might be the vocal majority on this board, but they are in the minority when it comes to the majority of Browns fans. Read the comments after the videos and articles that are being posted.
Posted By: dawglover05 Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 01:28 AM
Originally Posted by Ballpeen
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Could you then explain to me why it's taking a retired judge weeks to sift through the evidence to come to a conclusion if the NFL's case "is weak"?

Beyond being thorough, I think she is encouraging the two sides to come to an agreement. Much like in a divorce settlement, the court many times tries to get the two sides to reach agreement rather than render a decree.

I was going to say, in all my years in court, I never once remember being surprised by how quickly a judge came to a decision. Whether it was to make sure a decision was air tight, or, like you said, encouraging/allowing more time for the parties to settle, not much happened quickly. Heck, I remember for my criminal cases waiting pretty significant amounts for a pre-sentence investigation and then time on top of that for the judge to consider what was in the report.

Lots of internal debate and contemplation. Like picking out furniture with my wife.
Posted By: steve0255 Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 01:54 AM
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Somehow, the mob will say that I started another fight w/you.

For the record, I never turned my back on the Browns. I still rooted for them. I left the board once not because I wasn't rooting for the team, but because I got tired of the personal attacks from the Baker fan club.

You do what you want. I don't care. You can keep on w/your continued criticism of me and others will join you. You can question his character every week. Who freaking cares? Enjoy your misery. I'll be dancing after each victory no matter what you do because we finally have a good QB. Enjoy!
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Somehow, the mob will say that I started another fight w/you.

For the record, I never turned my back on the Browns. I still rooted for them. I left the board once not because I wasn't rooting for the team, but because I got tired of the personal attacks from the Baker fan club.

You do what you want. I don't care. You can keep on w/your continued criticism of me and others will join you. You can question his character every week. Who freaking cares? Enjoy your misery. I'll be dancing after each victory no matter what you do because we finally have a good QB. Enjoy!

So, anyone that disagrees with your stand on Watson or the slanted posts you make going after others is part of the mob characterization you've assigned to those loyal Browns Fans is fair game now? That when you spent 4-years blasting the FO, Coaches and team of the previous QB is rooting for the team but those of us who have concerns about the questionable character of Watson is "turning our backs on the Browns?" I'm not questioning you or even criticizing you for that fact. I'm pointing out your inconsistent posts and attacks on people when you're no better than the BS you have been slinging. Example, "I left the board once not because I wasn't rooting for the team, but because I got tired of the personal attacks from the Baker fan club." Ahh, but today is different. I'm a supporter of Watson no matter what others think, could be considered Prez of his fan club, and I'm going to personally attack with vigor any person who claims they're a fan for not supporting my guy. I don't care if they like it, they can enjoy their misery like I had to because of my self-inflicted BS the last 4-years. As long as my new QB wins, I can spend the next 5-years patting myself on the back. Who cares if no one has ever said that Watson wasn't an upgrade, I've supported the questionable character QB I knew was better. If we do lose, at least I'll know it wasn't the QB's problem. Yep, you're a real fan Vers, LOL!
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 01:59 AM
You can PM me if you like and vent. This is a Watson thread and I am not interested in trading insults w/you.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 02:06 AM
j/c...




This is probably the most honest take from some rando on Twitter. Nobody truly knows, except for Sue Robinson, who may not even know at this time.

Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 02:11 AM
So, here is the thing about the class action suit. A lot of blacks are sitting back and watch how the NFL handles this, just like the black dude on bone's video said. They have witnessed how black coaches get passed over time and time again. They have witnessed the concussion crap. They point towards the Kaep thing. The Flores situation. They see rich white owners getting away w/violations of the Personal Conduct Policy even though the owners are supposedly held at a higher standard than the players. They see that there is no video evidence against Watson. No tangible evidence to speak of other than Watson saying the one woman cried. They see how guys like Snyder intimidated witnesses, offered bribes, and unethically accessed the emails of those who spoke to the press. They see that illicit videos were made of unknowing cheerleaders. They see video evidence of Kraft. Video evidence and the cover up by Jones in Dallas of a Peeping Tom. All white dudes. Rich, white dudes.

And then they want to go after Watson for what, exactly? Accusations? None that were taken to the police or filed in the criminal courts initially. It all began in Civil Court. Trying to get money. Y'all really think that the black community is going to buy this BS? Think again. The NFL best back the hell off if Judge Robinson doesn't impose a stiff penalty.

With that said, she might impose a stiff penalty. I have no idea what she will do. I just think the NFL's case is weak and that they are in trouble if the NFLPA files a Class Action Suit against the league.
Posted By: FORTBROWNFAN Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 02:37 AM
Originally Posted by Milk Man
j/c...




This is probably the most honest take from some rando on Twitter. Nobody truly knows, except for Sue Robinson, who may not even know at this time.


I saw this a while back on Facebook and thought it was exactly how I felt about all the genius media experts out there.
Posted By: lampdogg Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 03:02 AM
This drawn-out saga has been the DT version of the OJ Simpson trial. Nobody got murdered here, though.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 07:08 AM
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
.

And then they want to go after Watson for what, exactly? Accusations? None that were taken to the police or filed in the criminal courts initially. It all began in Civil Court. Trying to get money. Y'all really think that the black community is going to buy this BS? Think again. The NFL best back the hell off if Judge Robinson doesn't impose a stiff penalty.

I don't believe this is a racial issue. But thanks for finally posting an honest comment about how you don't believe any of the women, instead of pretending you are neutral.
Posted By: Floquinho Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 09:08 AM
I don’t care how long his suspension will be because the important question for me is if I want him as the front face and the most important player of my team?

The answer is sadly - NO!

When I saw Kareem Hunt kicked that girl at the hotel I could at least understand and see myself in a similar situation. I don’t excuse his behavior but as long it was a one time incident I can forgive. That’s human nature. We sometimes has to forgive, forget and hopefully move on.

But when it comes to serious crimes or serial offenders it’s harder to move on. It’s not my job to be a judge but I can at least voice my opinion against having such a rotten character in my team. Unfortunately Deshaun Watson falls into that category of player that I don’t like and not accept. He will never be forgiven by me as long as he don’t take any sorts of accountability.

If he had sexual offended just one of the masseuses maybe I could accept and forgive, I maybe even would forgive if it was two incidents. But when the number is at least 24 and he refuse to accept guilt, not showing any remorse or compassion against these women that clearly felt uncomfortable with his behavior then he can’t count of me. I’m a nobody in the grand scheme of things but maybe if enough supporters that share my view voice their opinion maybe the NFL will listen.

Cleveland Browns is my team but sadly Deshaun Watson will never be my QB and as long as he’s part of the organization the Haslams will never get any fresh money from me.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 12:13 PM
Quote
maybe if enough supporters that share my view voice their opinion maybe the NFL will listen.

I prefer that the legal system determines a man's guilt or innocence over mob mentality.
Posted By: WSU Willie Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 12:44 PM
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Quote
maybe if enough supporters that share my view voice their opinion maybe the NFL will listen.

I prefer that the legal system determines a man's guilt or innocence over mob mentality.

Nah...you prefer whatever advances your agenda and insatiable desire to be seen as "correct". You aren't fooling anyone.
Posted By: FL_Dawg Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 12:50 PM
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Quote
maybe if enough supporters that share my view voice their opinion maybe the NFL will listen.

I prefer that the legal system determines a man's guilt or innocence over mob mentality.


Keep calling out the hypocrisy of the holier-than-thou crowd bro.
Posted By: mac Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 01:19 PM
jc...

The suspension handed down by Judge Robinson, to Watson WILL NOT be the end of the Watson case.

Next, Watson's case becomes the responsibility of NFL Commissioner Goodell...and no one knows what he will do..?

So, everyone waits for the final decision...

IMO, one of the Commissioner's main concerns would be handing down a suspension that is fair, based on the evidence presented but to also hand down a suspension that has flexibility built in to allow for new evidence to be considered.

An example of a potential nightmare suspension would be a 6-8 game suspension that would be considered final, then have information surface in a future criminal or civil lawsuit with a guilty verdict against Watson.

We can pretend that such a case won't happen...but there were some 66 potential cases and so far only 30 cases have been addressed in a legal sense, by Texans. Watson and his lawyer have addressed only 20 cases..!

That leaves a potential of a whole lot of cases...maybe as many as 46 more cases, that might need to be addressed by Watson, regardless of the suspension that the NFL hands down now.

So what is a fair suspension for Watson, given the fact that more cases are likely to materialize..?

Posted By: PETE314 Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 01:23 PM
Vers....I would hate for this to become a racial thing. I mean, isn't this emotionally charged enough? Just to point out that the majority of players are black and the majority of owners are white. So simple math says there is a higher probability of a black player or a white owner to face possible discipline in a situation.

By using the Black vs White angle...isn't that essentially the same strategy Buzbee is using to try Watson(and the Texans) in the court of public opinion? This is something we have been criticizing throughout the whole situation...Court of Public opinion vs due process. Or at least one of my criticisms.

Now, much as it is a tool in Buzbee's arsenal, it could be a tool in the NFLPA arsenal. But that doesn't mean it has to be used. I certainly think there is enough evidence out there that owners, who are supposed to be held to a higher standard, are being treated much differently than players without the race angle.

If the reports are true...The NFL did not provide proof of violence, threats, or coercion (this report I think is opinion) and that the NFL, is asking for an unprecedented suspension (true and corroborated with NFL statements outside of the hearing process) and that only 5 cases were presented in the hearing with one possibly thrown out by Robinson herself (more than likely true as it is a little more specific with objective and not subjective information)....AND that the NFL thinks the treatment of owners has no bearing on this case (again I think this is a little specific to make me think it is more likely true than not) Then I think the case of the NFL is very weak as well.

I also think there is PLENTY of evidence to support and fight the NFL on an owner treatment vs player treatment basis without pulling a race card. The NFLPA and Watson's team has been very consistent in taking the high road in terms of not trying this in the media. It is my hope that continues. I understand there is a perception and it very well COULD be a reality...BUT, if we can go forward without that aspect and win...I think that is a better outcome for all involved.

JMO

-------------

I am not concerned with the time being taken for Robinson's decision. As some mentioned , I believe it is giving opportunities for the NFL and Watson to settle. I don't see that happening. I think Watson and the NFLPA feel they have a strong case...and I feel the NFL cannot afford to settle on a low number PR wise. So I expect we will see a decision from Robinson. I also believe Robinson is going to be extremely thorough. She may already have a decision...heck she may have had it for some time....But this is a precedence making case being the first ruling. And so her opinion piece will need to be bullet proof. ANY appeal on either side needs to show fault with that opinion piece as Goodell or another representative cannot just change the punishment. They need to show there is fault in the opinion and findings of Robinson in order to do so. That applies to both the NFL and Watson. So I think that is going to take time.

I also think that Robinson's ruling (whatever it may be) gives the NFL an "out". They can always point out to the media...we tried to get max punishment but we were overruled. This put the onus on Robinson, who...IMO...could care less what the media thinks. I also think the NFL want to avoid the class action lawsuit, as it will make some investigation information public. The owners CERTAINLY do not want that, neither does the NFL as an organization. But all those emails from the Snyder case will come out....and I think with Brian Flores and CTE's, they are already taking some hits...although, nothing compared to a hit if the investigation information comes to light. So the NFL is looking for an out. (conspiracy alert....is that why their case is weak?)

Now I don't know if it will have ANY bearing on Robinson's decision as it occurred AFTER the hearings and not presented as evidence. But Watson's team may have an angle as it pertains to the NFL discipline. As essentially he is essentially being investigated and tried for the same thing the Texans are. (anyone find it slightly odd there were MORE suits against the Texans than against Watson...) Allegations of enabling sexual misconduct. Yet the Team is not being investigated by the NFL and no discipline is coming. So lets be clear...The NFL is not trying to suspend Watson for sexual misconduct...they are saying his actions affected the image of the NFL in a very negative matter. Well isn't 30 lawsuits against the Texans a black eye on the image of the NFL? The Texans get to say they did no wrong...but Watson doesn't get that same courtesy?

The Texans settlement helps Watson as far as not having to be called for deposition after deposition in the Cases against the Texans...But it may be detrimental in his civil suits as the angle will be used that the settlements by the Texans are an admission of guilt and that something happened...Even though I have been adamant that the opposite is true in all cases of Settlements...

Just a feeling...but I think the longer this decision takes....the less the suspension number will be...I am hopeful it will be before training camp for the Brown's sake, as they need to prepare for the season.(Not Robinson's concern). Regardless of the suspension number, Watson will be participating in Training Camp...The Browns just need to know how much work to throw at Brisset...
Posted By: bonefish Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 01:37 PM
You are fully entitled to your opinion.

How you respond to the future is all on you.

The only thing I will say is life does not begin or end at 26 years on earth.

Whatever happened between DW and the women they will all move on. People fall down in life at times. What matters is what they do when they get up.

I am willing to see how DW conducts himself going forward. He is going to be a Cleveland Brown for maybe the next ten years. Over that time we will learn a lot more about him.

What is going on in regards to the pending decision is not about justice. There are to many elements at play. It has become a line in the sand between the NFL and NFLPA. It is not about what really happened anymore.

The accusers will have to move on with their lives. Some may have been gold diggers. Some may have been completely wronged and justified in their accusations.

We don't know DW. We don't now his true intent or his true feelings today.

Over his time as Brown maybe will get to know more about him.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 01:51 PM
Thoughtful response, Pete. I do want to be clear about something. I am not the one bringing race to the table. I was responding to the comments by the black dude on the video that bonefish posted. I think it's called The Ultimate Sports Show or something like that. It's toward the top of this page. I'm not a black man, but I hear what he is saying and I can understand why blacks may feel that way. I respect the way that Watson's defense has handled this case. They could have viscously attacked the character of the women. They could have slipped personal tidbits out there about the women. They have taken the high road. I will say that the NFLPA might have a strong opinion on race relations when it comes to owners vs players in the NFL.

I pretty much agree w/most of your points in the part 2 of your post. The argument that taking her time is bad is silly. I posted a video of what types of evidence were probably provided by the NFL. It makes sense that both sides presented a ton of "evidence" to argue their case. It also makes sense that it was the NFLPA who leaked the part of no violence or coercion to the media. I'd say that it's almost a guarantee that it was the truth, no matter if some folks want to believe it or not. I strongly agree w/you on how could the Texans escape punishment while they only punish Watson. Truthfully, I really don't want the Texans punished. I just think that if the NFL is going to use it's Personal Conduct Policy to discipline its members, the investigations and punishments should be equitable and consistent.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 01:53 PM
Duplicate
Posted By: PETE314 Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 01:59 PM
Didn't mean to imply you were bringing race into the situation. Sorry if I gave that impression.

I am aware of G. Bush's opinion in this matter...(actually it is a good show...UCSS...I catch it on YouTube a lot...always have great guests on the show) And for the most part I agree with him. For me though...it is a HOPE things don't need to go there.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 02:12 PM
I didn't really think you were implying it, but I was just clarifying my intent because I probably wasn't very clear about it when I made my post last night.

I think that things will only "go there" if the NFL imposes an unfairly harsh penalty. That's why the threat of the class action suit might give Goodell pause if he is thinking of increasing the suspension after Sue Robinson makes her decision.
Posted By: Floquinho Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 03:36 PM
Originally Posted by bonefish
You are fully entitled to your opinion.

How you respond to the future is all on you.

The only thing I will say is life does not begin or end at 26 years on earth.

Whatever happened between DW and the women they will all move on. People fall down in life at times. What matters is what they do when they get up.

I am willing to see how DW conducts himself going forward. He is going to be a Cleveland Brown for maybe the next ten years. Over that time we will learn a lot more about him.

What is going on in regards to the pending decision is not about justice. There are to many elements at play. It has become a line in the sand between the NFL and NFLPA. It is not about what really happened anymore.

The accusers will have to move on with their lives. Some may have been gold diggers. Some may have been completely wronged and justified in their accusations.

We don't know DW. We don't now his true intent or his true feelings today.

Over his time as Brown maybe will get to know more about him.

I appreciate your sensible view, like you said life doesn’t begin or end at 26 years on earth.

What was important for me was how Watson and the Cleveland Browns responded to the accusations.

Andrew Berry could easily have made a strong statement that anyone interesting in being part of the Browns organization and have 20+ civil law suits hanging over their head should first resolve all the cases before the organization give away a contract with $230m guaranteed money. It’s simple, logical and the only correct decision that a responsible GM could make. If the owners wanted another outcome he could just say that then the owners have to fire him first. That’s the trademark of a professional and responsible GM. Ask yourself what kind of reputation and status Berry would have gain after such a statement.

Deshaun Watson could and should have accept some sort of guilt when this all started. Any adviser worth their salt would advised him to immediately take responsibility and being positive to solve his situation in a grown up way. 20+ civil law suits doesn’t just fall from the sky without a reason. Not once has he shown remorse or accepts any wrong doing. That’s telling when you judge someone’s character.

Still after almost 4 months the Browns act like nothing has happened. All the signs of a rotten leadership.
Deshaun Watson actions speaks for itself. Life goes on but I haven’t so far seen any changes in his public approach that look like he’s aware of his wrong doings. It’s still seems to be same guy that 20+ women felt highly uncomfortable with.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 03:40 PM
My opinion on this has not changed. I felt all along that this was headed for settlement.

The NFL rattled their chains and blew their horn. NFLPA went and hired "Paladin." Their hired gun Kessler.

The NFL has way to much at stake to try and play hardball. Kessler will back them into a corner.

The NFL in reality can not overrule Robinson. It would be a PR horror film.

DW and his team has no reason to accept a lengthy suspension. Anything they would accept is nothing more than a way to get this all behind them.

Robinson will wait till they work it out. Unless it goes till camp. If she has to wait till then ok after that she will rule.

The magic number is four games.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 03:41 PM
This is where I get confused by your posts...

You introduced and supported a media commentator who was very much making the Watson thing into a race issue. No one before you mentioned it, after you introduced it you said you agree and supported his view ..... But then you write that you aren't trying to make or agree with making this thing about race. It really seems that you and you alone in DawgTalkers did infact introduce and support that aspect to the situation. What am I missing ?
Posted By: FATE Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 03:48 PM
Originally Posted by mgh888
This is where I get confused by your posts...

You introduced and supported a media commentator who was very much making the Watson thing into a race issue. No one before you mentioned it, after you introduced it you said you agree and supported his view ..... But then you write that you aren't trying to make or agree with making this thing about race. It really seems that you and you alone in DawgTalkers did infact introduce and support that aspect to the situation. What am I missing ?

THE TRUTH!! 🤪
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 03:50 PM
Quote
DW and his team has no reason to accept a lengthy suspension. Anything they would accept is nothing more than a way to get this all behind them.

That is the way I see it, too. I understand why the NFLPA is pushing for zero games and I agree w/that he does not deserve to be suspended. I can see a monetary fine which is what the NFL gave to Snyder for his violations of the Personal Conduct policy. However, I can see Watson agreeing to either 2 or 4 games just to get this behind him, just like you stated. I would not agree to anything more than 4 games and instead would go w/the class action suit.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 04:29 PM
Purple ? Now I'm confuddled.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 04:33 PM
The one thing I believe you have to bear in mind is DW is a football player.

He is a long way from a lawyer. He is doing what his lawyers are telling him.

One thing that I believe is overlooked. I am not citing this as a defense for DW. It is fact. He was highly regarded as a person by those around him.

And I mean way back to high school and college coaches, teammates and those who have had contact with him through the community. He has been highly regarded.

There is no prior character issues of any kind. That does not mean he didn't do anything. The law considers people with a checkered past.

You are looking at Haslam and the organization. Understood. However, we are not privy to what their investigation showed. How far did they look back? Who did they talk to. What good has he done. What kind of person has he been. Josh Gordon, Antonio Brown have history.

20+. IMO that is not a real number any longer. Robinson is looking at four. I don't know for a fact but some of them could easily be "let's pile on and get some money. I gave him a massage. I don't know. That would not excuse poor behavior if there were one case. Still perspective should also be considered.

Adult women and a adult male. It has been made clear there was no force, coercion or violence.

We know only what has been published. There is a lot we will never know.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 04:50 PM
Love you Bone, and we see almost eye to eye on every single issue Browns and non-Browns, with the exception of this DW issue.

Dismissing the 26 women that made allegations thru the attorney seems a little too convenient. They all made the allegations ... They do NOT include the woman whose son came forward and claimed his mom was faking the claim, Buzbee filtered out legit claims and did NOT accept her as a client. Dismissing the 26 ignores the 66+ total different women, it ignores the txt messages confirming Watson had earned a toxic reputation, the txt that was from a therapist telling her boss she did NOT want to see DW, it ignores the payoff to the manager "just because"... It also seems to dismiss the 4 still unsettled cases. Final point, I do not believe there has been proof of no coercion.... That was one claim from one report. At the end of the day, each woman's testimony is a form of evidence, as is Watsons own testimony.... We may choose which testimony to believe, but it is a type of evidence. Distilling it down to adult male and adult women bypasses the setting of employer, setting etc and seems to almost imply situation was a dating scenario where the adults were free to choose what and how this actually came to be.

Like many friends who either feel the same way you do, or simply don't care if Watson did everything he was accused of, you are free to believe anything you wish. I'll respect and accept it in it's entirety. I just wanted to share the why's of my disagreement.
Posted By: FATE Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 04:57 PM
Originally Posted by mgh888
Purple ? Now I'm confuddled.

If you would just listen to Vers, your life would be a lot easier... he speaks the truth.

No matter the issue, he has it all figured out. This endless banter trying to prove any point is futile. If you don't toe the line, you are:

* Racist (a new one)

* A "Baker Boy"

* Narrow-minded

* Not a real Browns fan and hope they lose

* Gullible enough to believe a bunch of lying call girls

* Etc, etc, etc...


Get with the program, dawg.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 05:05 PM
Originally Posted by DogNDC
Any good arbitrator is going to take their time and look at all the evidence. Or even the lack of evidence and then write up what and where the law applies.

This has nothing to do with "the law". All it has to do with is the NFL personal conduct policy. And no, there is no reason to take this much time to look at non evidence.

Quote
And yes, she will look at any precedence the NFL has done in the past.

So you're saying that the NFPA and the NFL came to a new agreement on how to deal with this issue because the NFLPA thought the prior way if dealing with this was wrong. And now you and some others think they're going to use past precedence based on a system the NFLPA felt was so wrong they negotiated a new way of dealing with such infractions? Really?

Quote
So taking her time is not a big deal. And we know that Watson did not commit any crime so he is up right now.

Once again, the NFL personal conduct policy has nothing to do with criminal proceedings.

Quote
And how ever hard she comes down on Watson, the NFL will have to do something about the Texans. Why, because they were accomplices. The Texans cannot say they knew nothing about what was going on ..(* even though they are trying too *). SO if Watson sues, then he gets to tell the tale of how the Texans supported him!!!.

So you mean watson would have to confess to what he was doing and that the Texans helped him do it? You can't be serious.

Quote
So you got Snyder investigation which was so bad the NFL had their investigators NOT WRITE DOWN WHAT THEY FOUND... Then my boy Kraft (* I would not bring myself to punish a 80 yr old for going to get one rubbed out *) and now the Texans helping Watson.....

Better settle this quick!

The best thing watson could do is settle this quick. If not his career is on hold until he does. You seem to take anything you hear in reported articles as gospel as long as it supports your side of the argument. You may be in for a big surprise.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 05:15 PM
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
The taking her time take is so freaking weak. If she would have ruled quickly and decided on no suspension or a very small one, the haters would be screaming about how the whole process was rigged and the NFL doesn't care about women.

Yes, she's just sitting back sipping Martini's waiting on two sides that spent months failing to negotiate a settlement to do so in a couple of weeks. Speaking of weak.

Quote
Btw........just watch........they will still do the same if Sue Robinson doesn't suspend Watson for a long time. They might be the vocal majority on this board, but they are in the minority when it comes to the majority of Browns fans. Read the comments after the videos and articles that are being posted.

And there were those, including yourself who claimed you would accept her decision no matter the outcome. Watch you whine if it turns out she's tough on him. Even after claiming you would accept her decision you have clamored for a lawsuit if it ends up being a long suspension.

Stop pretending, whining and playing victim. Your shtick is getting old.

just editing to add. The NFL isn't concerned with "Browns fans" per say. The Browns are 1 of 32 teams. Browns fans have a vested interest it watson playing. To them it's more important than almost anything obviously. None of this hinges on "what Browns fans think". Steeler fans were standing beside Ben too.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 05:18 PM
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Quote
maybe if enough supporters that share my view voice their opinion maybe the NFL will listen.

I prefer that the legal system determines a man's guilt or innocence over mob mentality.

Yet the NFL personal conduct policy isn't a court of law and the players contractually agreed to this process. So much for your false narrative.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 05:21 PM
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
I didn't really think you were implying it, but I was just clarifying my intent because I probably wasn't very clear about it when I made my post last night.

I think that things will only "go there" if the NFL imposes an unfairly harsh penalty. That's why the threat of the class action suit might give Goodell pause if he is thinking of increasing the suspension after Sue Robinson makes her decision.

Over half of our nations population are women. 13.4 percent are black. I'm pretty sure the NFL can do the math here.
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 05:30 PM
Originally Posted by DogNDC
Purple,
A grand jury decision is based off can the prosecutor convince a jury that a there is enough evidence that the state has compiled to determine if criminal charges SHOULD be brought. 2 different grand juries said NO!!!.. That is why the lawyer for those women went the civil route. So what this does say is that Watson did not do anything that could be CRIMINALLY charged.

Now link that with the NFL only bringing 5 cases to the arbitrator and even then found no evidence of violence, threats or physical conduct... the NFL needs to settle and get out of there!!

1. No, that is NOT why they went the civil route. That was happening anyway regardless of the outcome of the criminal proceedings.
2. A grand jury decision is nothing more than whether a prosecutor thinks they can get a conviction; that's all.
3. The rest of your argument would have been a better place to use the Chewbacca Defense, because you didn't provide anything that said anything or supported any conclusion and I'm not sure what you were addressing with it.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 06:32 PM
I understand your take.

I am suspicious of settled cases. I have seen companies settle because they looked at the long picture and took the fast route out.
What took place and justice was thrown away.

How much makes you feel better?

The cases I can only speculate as to what really took place. I can say what I would have done if I was the woman in the room. But I am not the woman in the room. However, i know women if it was true what was alleged. They would have set DW real straight real fast.

Unfortunately I don't believe we will ever know what happened.

My hope is that those involved will be ok with what is decided.

If DW was the bad guy. He has the rest of his life with money and a platform to benefit many people.

I will follow the Browns. I will pay attention to what DW does going forward.

It maybe cold but when games are on I am there because it is entertaining to me and I want the Browns to win. Lots goes on around the world that I wish was different. I don't like any of this. I just want to watch the team play.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 06:39 PM
Quote
1. No, that is NOT why they went the civil route. That was happening anyway regardless of the outcome of the criminal proceedings.

The Civil cases were filed before the criminal complaints and police reports were.

I have always been suspicious of those who choose to go to Civil Court first. If a crime was committed against me, I would seek justice by filing criminal charges rather than trying to seek money.
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 07:45 PM
In most cases, I agree. There are cases where your chances of a criminal prosecution are nearly zilch, but you actually still have a semi-decent chance of getting some semblance of justice via a civil case. Pretty much all of these are actually of that nature.

I would also suggest that the lawyer, whatever his name is, likely sought out as many of the women as he could to get as many viable cases going as he could, BUT, he's only interested in the civil cases and would have nearly no impact on whether criminal proceeding went forth, but he likely spurred the criminal filings to give basis to the civil filings. However, how those proceeded would be the domain of the prosecutor(s).

Are all of the cases valid? Not likely. Almost certainly not likely.
Are some of them valid? Fairly likely. Where there's smoke, there's fire, as the saying goes. Once the lawyer had a handful of credibles, he'd seek out as many marginally credible cases as he could in order to double-down. It worked, he got an early pay day from those, but what is left are the ones not settling, and those are likely the stronger, more credible cases (speculative on my part, I don't know which are which).

The point that this whole diatribe has been getting steered away from was me making the still valid point that a decision to not indict is meaningless in general, but more specifically for where we are at in this process. The outcome of the criminal stuff is nearly meaningless because all it means is that he isn't getting jail time.

All that matters is "did his conduct violate the NFL Personal Conduct Policy?". This is a Yes/No question, and I think pretty much everyone can agree that it is a Yes.

So, the ONLY question is whether or not the degree of violation is sufficient for a suspension.... and nobody knows because the NFL's history is nothing but a complete joke when you look at what might be considered precedent. They have been absolutely all over the place. All that remains is opinion, although that is turning into people actively lobbying for one result or another, as if anyone on here has any impact whatsoever, lol.

In the end, the league is going to do what they feel is best for the league. They may require a sacrificial lamb be slaughtered; they may feel they can float a story that lets them avoid anything overtly draconian. They will work with the NFLPA because they know the union will have to give its harrumphs, and the NFLPA will work with the league because they know this is how the bread gets baked, and they will all do their damndest to make sure they give every appearance that their new system works in a way that keeps people happy.



As always, for the NFL & the NFLPA, this is nothing more than publicly managing a PR problem. Despite the recent campaign in the media with articles to float the idea of leniency, or even outright clemency, I think a large portion of the public opinion has remained in the camp that requires a blood debt be paid, and in that vein, I think there will surely be a suspension, but I think it will be long enough to satiate the majority of the blood hungry while not being so long as to have people screaming that he's been martyred. I think the chances of a full season suspension are nil, and I feel the same way about any thoughts of there being no suspension or anything shorter than like four or five weeks. In the end, I think the NFL & NFLPA will work out something they can both live with and they will feed this to Robinson behind closed doors and lo & behold, she will come out with a recommendation that matches it and both the NFL and NFLPA will just nod sagely and choose to "respect her decision & recommendation".
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 08:52 PM
j/c:



Posted By: steve0255 Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 09:08 PM
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Quote
maybe if enough supporters that share my view voice their opinion maybe the NFL will listen.

I prefer that the legal system determines a man's guilt or innocence over mob mentality.

Yet the NFL personal conduct policy isn't a court of law and the players contractually agreed to this process. So much for your false narrative.

My experience of being a Labor Manager for a major corporation and dealing with union complaints on a monthly basis, I will stick by my previously posted opinion about the cases in front of Judge Robinson. The most critical point that must be "understood" is that Judge Robinson is not making a ruling on criminal guilt or innocence or civil suit guilt or innocence. Her ruling is only and purely related to the question of if Watson violated the NFL's/NFLPA's contractual agreement on the PCP. The GJ's ruling means nothing nor does it mean anything to her if he's criminally charged or not at this point.

I am also very certain but still just my opinion that when people say that there are only four cases that the Judge is looking at is a fallacy. From what I understand, everyone on the alleged victims said the same thing about Watson. That he went against protocol and demanded to bring with him and use a small towel no larger than a washcloth instead of the standard full sheet used during regular massages. The intentional use of this small towel allowed Watson to become exposed which obviously signals intent. While continuing to demand the masseuse to work higher while exposed, it enabled very little movement by Watson to cause touching. Each of the women gave depositions very similar in description of how Watson initiated the touching aspect either verbally or physically. Now the unnamed source (now being reported as an NFLPA Representative) stating that the NFL only brought 4 cases to the arbitrator and even then, found no evidence of violence, threats or physical conduct was released to sway public opinion. What he didn't say was the claim of these women was that they were being coerced or forced into seeing Watson exposed and ultimately unwanted touching which violates the PCP. Also, remember, the unnamed NFLPA source that has no bearing on the outcome of the case based on his opinion? Ultimately, there was no reason for Judge Robinson to hear 24 cases claiming the exact same things of intimidation, coercing, or being forced when it could be covered by a few by not being redundant yet none this less included.

Two of the other suits alleged sexual abuse by Watson and have not been settled. These are the most serious since Texas Law considers sexual abuse to pertain equally:
(A) any contact between any part of the genitals of one person and the mouth or anus of another person; or
(B) the penetration of the genitals or the anus of another person with an object.
(2) "Sexual contact" means, except as provided by Section 21.11 or 21.12, any touching of the anus, breast, or any part of the genitals of another person with intent to arouse or gratify the sexual desire of any person.
(3) "Sexual intercourse" means any penetration of the female sex organ by the male sex organ.

The fourth and final suit alleged Watson ejaculated on her without permission.

Those 4 allegations have not been settled and the reason why they were presented to Judge Robinson but IMHO, the first one encompassed all 24 so as to not be redundant while still encompassing the entire scope of 24 civil suits with now 2 new ones filed.

The focus on the 4 remaining and the 2 new ones gives pause to Judge Robinson by not knowing how many more cases are to be filed and/or the severity of the testimony should those cases make it to civil court. Remember, it's not Judge Robinson's duty to determine innocence or guilt but the impact of Watson's actions to the integrity of the game. If the cases keep coming (estimated that 4 more are on the way) the more fallout the league will receive if Watson is indeed playing after a light suspension. That IMHO is what is taking Judge Robinson so long to rule. This case is the worst case of allegations of sexual misconduct in the history of the NFL. Getting it wrong could have dire consequences on the league, team, and peers.

Again, Just My Opinion.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 10:27 PM
Fair post. Not the usual attack post that are littering this thread. I agree w/a lot of what you said. I think perhaps we you and I disconnect is that you might believe that I don't think this is about the Personal Conduct policy. I do believe that. I sure as heck don't believe it is about Texas law like I read elsewhere on here. My contention is that precedence should matter when looking at violations of the Personal Conduct policy. Kessler, the NFLPA's esteemed attorney has made precedence a focal point of Watson's defense. He has named Snyder, Jones, and Kraft as examples of those who violated the particulars of the Personal Conduct policy.

I think most would be satisfied w/Sue Robinson's decision. She seems fair and is squeaky clean as far as i can tell. I think the NFLPA and others like myself would have a problem if Goodell or his appointed designee increases the length of the suspension. That is why we are hearing the threat of a class action suit against the NFL. Many are speculating that while the outrage of Watson getting off "easy" would indeed exist, it would pale in comparison to the long-term damage the class action suit would cause. The NFL could be dragged through the mud for years and forced to reveal things they would never want to. I don't envy the NFL's position right now. They are going to get ripped either way. It's just that the class action suit could bring much more heat on them.
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 11:22 PM
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
My contention is that precedence should matter when looking at violations of the Personal Conduct policy.

I think you think far too highly of the NFL and their practices. Never, ever, has fairness and procedures and orderly processes been a thing for them.
Literally, the most cynical view is the most realistic with them. They don't care about what players do, they care about public uproar over what players do. That's it.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/20/22 11:23 PM
We certainly agree about that.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/21/22 11:03 AM
Posted By: mac Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/21/22 11:05 AM
jc...

Browns fans are left in limbo, waiting for the process to conclude...

Being a Browns fan is not easy..!
Posted By: jfanent Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/21/22 11:19 AM
Originally Posted by mac
jc...



Being a Browns fan is not easy..!

Keep that up and you're going to unseat daman as the captain obvious of Dawgtalkers.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/21/22 11:25 AM
He's gotta post something now that Florio has stopped his smear campaign.
Posted By: mac Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/21/22 11:48 AM
jfan...how is that knee replacement doing after your bout with cellulitis..?
Posted By: mac Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/21/22 11:55 AM
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
He's gotta post something now that Florio has stopped his smear campaign.

Oh, look at you, vers...just 45 minutes ago you used Florio as a source for the smear campaign.

How about that..!
Posted By: Bard Dawg Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/21/22 12:01 PM
Agreed, Purp. Reading your post, and I am still scratching my head, coming to grips with what the NFL's sense of "protecting" the integrity of The Game means at this point in time. Can't be much less than it is. Discipline that doesn't, gambling, the Goodell "court" from the same subjective folks who still cannot tell you what pass interference isn't and what a catch is. Integrity of the NFL. Is that phrase, in practical practice, more hypocrisy or is it merely a severe oxymoron?

Talk among yourselves.

Go, Browns anyhow. For The Land!
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/21/22 12:31 PM
j/c:

Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/21/22 12:53 PM
Seems like a lot of money to lose.
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/21/22 12:54 PM
Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie
j/c:


NeverForget™

All gave some, some gave 1% of all.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/21/22 01:28 PM
Originally Posted by Ballpeen
Seems like a lot of money to lose.

I read that tweet as if it was dripping with sarcasm (maybe sarcasm isn't the right word).
Posted By: eotab Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/21/22 02:40 PM
Bone I sure wish the kid would get professional help to get him comfortable to see he made some bad moves and even though he isn't saying he was wrong to at least get some help so that mentally he understands that it was wrong and he will not continue to commit the same error over again. That is ONE OF MY PROBLEMS is his refusal to get help. Its not about forgiving or understanding we all have made mistakes. In his case he cannot duplicate that mistake or else I'm afraid he will be gone as in FOREVER!!!

jmho and fear.
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/21/22 02:43 PM
j/c:

Did anyone happen to listen to the Florio interview this morning on 92.3 The Fan? I'm seeing a couple of things on twitter referencing a portion of the interview where Florio's source alleged the NFL tried to include a newspaper article as evidence for one of the five cases and Robinson dismissed it as evidence. I don't see the interview on the site yet so wanted to see if this was, in fact, brought up?
Posted By: bonefish Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/21/22 03:10 PM
I can only give an opinion.

So, what I state is nothing more than a guess.

DW was by all accounts a good guy before any of these allegations were know. That is where I start. We all know there are truly bad people in this world. I doubt that he is one of them.

He may have gotten more than a massage early on. Most likely it was consensual. He may have known others who got serviced at massage places. Maybe he thought you set up a massage and some ended happy. Over time some went that way and others didn't. He got off on the ones that did and kept looking for more. Eventually it led to where this is. I doubt his intent was to harm anyone.

Now after all that has transpired. Anything even close to being perceived as wrong. He will not want any part of it. I can not say how many cases are valid or are not.

Once this is settled whatever is decided. IMO you will see a guy who will do everything he can to rebuild his reputation. He will be involved in all kinds of community outreach programs. Part of that will be driven and or assisted by the Haslams and the Browns. He is a long term investment.


In my opinion DW will never be involved in anything off the field other than good things. Things that will be visible to the public as helpfull to others.

I am optomistic because it makes sense to me and nothing before any of this leads me to believe that he is by nature a bad person.
Posted By: jfanent Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/21/22 03:29 PM
Originally Posted by mac
jfan...how is that knee replacement doing after your bout with cellulitis..?

Very well, thank you. Going thru the grind of PT, stretching and strength training. It's painful and sucks, but the physical therapist said my progress is "remarkable".
Posted By: IrishDawg42 Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/21/22 03:36 PM
What about the Cleveland Browns workplace? Their employees?

Do they have any female trainers on staff? If so, did they take into consideration that it might make them extremely uncomfortable treating Deshaun Watson? I know they are probably a $65,000 a year bottom feeder, but we are going back to the Washington Commanders workplace environment here. Why are the top paid players, the only employees that matter, other than they make you the most money? Well, the trainers play an integral part of an athlete being able to perform at a high level....Just another opinion.
Posted By: 3rd_and_20 Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/21/22 03:39 PM
j/c:

Browns working out QBs A.J. McCarron and Josh Rosen today to backup Jacoby Brissett

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/20...sen-today-to-backup-jacoby-brissett.html
Posted By: mac Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/21/22 04:00 PM
Originally Posted by jfanent
Originally Posted by mac
jfan...how is that knee replacement doing after your bout with cellulitis..?

Very well, thank you. Going thru the grind of PT, stretching and strength training. It's painful and sucks, but the physical therapist said my progress is "remarkable".

thumbsup great news and keep grinding !
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/21/22 04:13 PM
Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie
j/c:

Did anyone happen to listen to the Florio interview this morning on 92.3 The Fan? I'm seeing a couple of things on twitter referencing a portion of the interview where Florio's source alleged the NFL tried to include a newspaper article as evidence for one of the five cases and Robinson dismissed it as evidence. I don't see the interview on the site yet so wanted to see if this was, in fact, brought up?

Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/21/22 04:46 PM
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
He's gotta post something now that Florio has stopped his smear campaign.

Now you have stopped smearing Florio because now you like what he's saying.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/21/22 04:58 PM
That was a pretty good interview. LMAO at the NFL trying to use a newspaper article as evidence. I'm also glad we are clearing up this misconception that some have about Robinson considering 24 or 30 or 66 women. It's four.

I posted his video earlier because he had points that were both good and bad for Watson and the NFL. it's balanced than saying Watson doesn't deserve any time or Watson needs to be suspended indefinitely. The radio interview was more of the same.

I still don't know what Robinson will decide, but I have a better feeling about this than I did early on. Personally, I don't think he should be suspended at all given the way the NFL has handled the owners and even the Security guy w/the Texans. However, I understand that Judge Robinson will probably suspend him. I'm hoping for 2-4 games, but that is just wishful thinking. I don't think it will be above 6, but I could be wrong about that, too.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/21/22 05:03 PM
I think we may hear something Friday around noon.

Maybe that is wishful thinking on my part.
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/21/22 05:08 PM
j/c:

Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/21/22 05:09 PM
Florio suggested that might be the case. It's the NFL way. LOL

And I still can't believe they tried to use a newspaper article as evidence. Their case seems really weak.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/21/22 05:31 PM
It's not even close to the same cost and you know it. All an NFL contract is worth is the guaranteed portion.
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/21/22 05:32 PM
What it is referring to is the avg cost per year.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/21/22 05:37 PM
Which is a great way to frame it if one wishes to misrepresent the huge discrepancy between the two contracts.
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/21/22 05:51 PM
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Which is a great way to frame it if one wishes to misrepresent the huge discrepancy between the two contracts.

I think most people understood where he was coming from and what he was referring to but here you go for his clarification.

Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/21/22 05:53 PM
Watson is a far superior qb over Murray. Murray acts like a little brat on the field. Pouting, showing teammates up, gagging in big games, etc. We will have Watson for the next decade or so. Great move by Berry!
Posted By: bonefish Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/21/22 08:12 PM
Posted By: dawglover05 Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/21/22 08:26 PM
Originally Posted by mac
Originally Posted by jfanent
Originally Posted by mac
jfan...how is that knee replacement doing after your bout with cellulitis..?

Very well, thank you. Going thru the grind of PT, stretching and strength training. It's painful and sucks, but the physical therapist said my progress is "remarkable".

thumbsup great news and keep grinding !

Actually, I think that may have been the problem in the first place wink
Posted By: hitt Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/21/22 08:39 PM
JMHO, a truth, ANY place you hurt your body, it will come back and get you as you AGE. Be smart using your body. Go Browns!!!
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/22/22 12:43 AM
JC

To the Board: Hey everyone, just wanted to apologize for apparently getting political in PF two nights ago. I took a two-day ban deservingly, but wanted you all to know it was an accident and I'm sorry for doing that because I do the best I can to keep that stuff in PP. But I was being attacked in multiple forums by the same poster and just lost track of where I was. Again, I apologize to anyone who didn't want to see it, except the recipient.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/22/22 08:57 AM
Originally Posted by OldColdDawg
JC

To the Board: Hey everyone, just wanted to apologize for apparently getting political in PF two nights ago. I took a two-day ban deservingly, but wanted you all to know it was an accident and I'm sorry for doing that because I do the best I can to keep that stuff in PP. But I was being attacked in multiple forums by the same poster and just lost track of where I was. Again, I apologize to anyone who didn't want to see it, except the recipient.

No need to apologize, we know you don't mean it. LOL...just kidding. I think we all can get a little flustered, or hot under the collar from time to time.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/22/22 11:42 AM
Quote
Will Judge Robinson issue a Deshaun Watson ruling on Friday?
Posted by Mike Florio on July 21, 2022, 9:49 PM EDT


The Browns go to training camp next week. It makes plenty of sense for Judge Sue L. Robinson to issue her ruling on quarterback Deshaun Watson‘s potential discipline before then.

From the moment the hearing ended three weeks ago today and Judge Robinson set a deadline of July 12 for the submission of written materials from the parties, the week of July 25 seemed to be the ideal period of time for a decision. From a P.R. perspective, it’s even more ideal if she issues her decision on Friday afternoon.


Last Friday, the Texans’ settlement of 30 claims related to Watson’s alleged misconduct emerged in the late morning/early afternoon. By Monday morning, it was largely forgotten. Although the ruling on a Deshaun Watson suspension wouldn’t be a faded memory by morning drive-time on Monday, it will have less oomph on Monday if it’s published tomorrow afternoon.

The NFL, if it were being candid, would say it would prefer that the ruling come on Friday afternoon. The NFL Players Association likely would feel the same way. If, as some believe, Watson won’t get the kind of significant punishment that many had believed he’d experience, the league and the union have a shared interest in trying to reduce the backlash from fans and media over the perception that Watson didn’t get the kind of punishment that many believe he deserves.

The Browns, as we’ve reported, are bracing for eight games. A person with knowledge of the submissions made by the parties has suggested a range of two to eight games. By Friday afternoon, the answer finally may arrive.

Subject, of course, to an appeal by either side to Commissioner Roger Goodell — unless Judge Robinson’s decides that there should be no discipline at all.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...issue-a-deshaun-watson-ruling-on-friday/

A couple of thoughts:

--Making the decision public on a Friday makes sense because there is going to be outrage one way or the other and the weekend provides a bit of a buffer zone.

--The 2--8 game prediction that some of these guys are putting out there gives them a lot of wiggle room. This isn't baseball or basketball. Two games is two weeks. Eight games is two months if the bye isn't in that time span. That's a huge difference.

I really don't know how long Sue L. Robinson will suspend Watson, if at all. Given the information and knowing the importance of the media and public opinion, I am going to say 4 to 6 games. It might be similar to Big Ben's situation. I don't think she will go zero games like Kraft got despite video evidence.

I wonder what number will cause the NFLPA to appeal?

I wonder if the NFL throws their hands up if the suspension isn't too long and say that their hands were tied by Robinson's decision or if they ignore her decision and tack on more games?
Posted By: WSU Willie Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/22/22 11:52 AM
Wait...so Houston settled with 30 women...DW settled with 24 women...is the number now 54-and-counting or was there some overlap there? Also, why did Houston wait until NOW to settle? What a cluster.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/22/22 02:05 PM
Originally Posted by OldColdDawg
JC

To the Board: Hey everyone, just wanted to apologize for apparently getting political in PF two nights ago. I took a two-day ban deservingly, but wanted you all to know it was an accident and I'm sorry for doing that because I do the best I can to keep that stuff in PP. But I was being attacked in multiple forums by the same poster and just lost track of where I was. Again, I apologize to anyone who didn't want to see it, except the recipient.

This thread has gotten me hot a couple times, and I'm usually pretty chill. I'm ready for the saga to be over....






... so we can start arguing over all the leaked information that comes out after.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/22/22 02:09 PM
Originally Posted by WSU Willie
Wait...so Houston settled with 30 women...DW settled with 24 women...is the number now 54-and-counting or was there some overlap there? Also, why did Houston wait until NOW to settle? What a cluster.

We don't officially know, but I think the assumption is that there are 6 additional women in the Houston settlement that are not in the 24 total Watson cases. The Times article seemed to indicate that Houston had knowledge of the situation and enabled at times. Beyond what is in the Times article, I'm not aware of any specifics regarding what the Texans would've been charged with as that is now hush-hush per the settlement.
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/22/22 02:55 PM
Originally Posted by WSU Willie
Wait...so Houston settled with 30 women...DW settled with 24 women...is the number now 54-and-counting or was there some overlap there? Also, why did Houston wait until NOW to settle? What a cluster.

As oober pointed out, the assumption is that there is 100% overlap, and the suits against Houston were just filed this summer; like, within the last six weeks, I believe (I'm not going to bother checking the actual filing date, but it was recent).
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/22/22 03:18 PM
j/c

Sounds like the Browns are expecting a short suspension. I mean they went out and signed Rosen when they were already paying their current back up over 4.5 million. Yeah, sounds like they're only expecting 4-6 games.
Posted By: dawglover05 Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/22/22 07:41 PM
Well...we finally ended up with the guy I wanted us to take originally in the 2018 draft...although I can't say I'm as happy about it now as I would have been then.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/22/22 08:33 PM
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/22/22 11:53 PM
Things are looking better and better.



Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/23/22 12:02 AM
Zero games? LOL just thinking about heads exploding.


Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/23/22 12:06 AM
Posted By: steve0255 Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/23/22 12:50 AM
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog


So, what does this mean? As I had said earlier, the NFL has not decided discipline on the Texans as of yet. Many here are screaming that the Texans are an example of what's wrong with the PCP. The Texans settling has created a serious issue for Judge Robinson. Handy out a light suspension to Watson when she is the exact reason that the NFLPA fought for a change defeats the purpose of their fight in the first place. If the punishments were wrong before, handing out a light punishment to a player with who's had 24 civil suits against him defeats everything they have been fighting for. You can't fix wrongs by starting out doing another wrong. The Texans have basically said they enabled Watson misconduct by settling with the 30 women without actually admitting they did enable. So much to the point, the media and fans alike are screaming foul because no penalty has been handed down, yet. That may be the delay in Judge Robinson's decision. If the NFL hands out a penalty to the Texans (as they should) that is based on the merits of the issue (30 women alleging sexual misconduct), then Watson must have violated the PCP in in a manner unprecedented in the history of the NFL. The Texans cannot be guilty of a gross PCP violation unless Watson is guilty of an even grosser PCP violation.

It's thought that Watson should be given a pass on the 20 civil cases that were settled as with no harm, no foul and now only has to be concerned with the other 4 that are still active with the NFL. As many have posted that Judge Robinson should only be considering those four, period, then with that thinking the Texans should turn off the lights because they have already settled all their civil cases thus no harm, no foul and the NFL should ignore any thoughts of PCP violations by the Texans. Of course, there's the 6 other women who have not filed against Watson but did the Texans. You'd have to think if the Texans settled of enabling then civil suits against Watson be a coming soon. Unless Judge Robinson gives an indefinite suspension, this circus will not be over for the Browns and Watson for a long time because more juicy stuff is a coming and it isn't looking good.
Posted By: PETE314 Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/23/22 03:10 AM
You really don't know what a settlement means do you??? You make a lot of assumptions.

First The Texans ARE NOT GUILTY. A settlement is NOT an admission of Guilt. And Judge Robinson cannot consider those settlements in ANY way because the settlements happened AFTER the hearing and so they are not a part of the evidence. Secondly the NFL HAS made a decision of no punishment to the Texans and announced that the same day of the settlements. The argument others are making is that Watson is being disciplined for the same thing the Texans are not being disciplined for...which is the lawsuits that could be seen as a negative with the PCP...and if the NFL isn't even going to push any further on the Texans who had MORE lawsuits against them, why is Watson still on the hook....That is the argument others are making...But that argument doesn't even matter because Judge Robinson can't consider it anyway...

Third...Watson isn't being given a pass on the 20 settlements. The 20 settlements are not a part of the presentation of evidence "that we know of". And even if it is a part of the evidence...like the Texans..it is NOT an admission of guilt and would have no real bearing on a judgement. Watson is being considered for discipline based on 4 cases that were presented by the NFL...we don't even know if any of the 4 settled. We don't know which 4 cases she heard. It is just assumed by many that it is the 4 cases that have not yet settled. But that is not fact...the only fact that has been confirmed is the number which is 4 cases that Judge Robinson is considering. Who knows maybe the NFL picked the 4 worst cases...(just saying)

I can see a situation where Watson gets no punishment...as explained by the videos above...I can see where she blazes her own trail and makes it a much larger punishment. "I don't think" she gives the NFL the whole year...it certainly is possible.....it is just my opinion to think she won't....But we have to remind ourselves what it is she is judging. She can only consider the evidence provided in the hearing (4 cases with no witness testimony and no cross examination of witness testimony )and she will consider the post hearing summations (which would not be allowed to introduce new evidence)...And it can only be judged based upon her interpretation of the PCP...So precedence will be considered...we don't how much...but it will be...
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/23/22 05:59 AM
Unlike others, you have a pretty good understanding of how this works.
Posted By: steve0255 Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/23/22 11:14 AM
Originally Posted by PETE314
You really don't know what a settlement means do you??? You make a lot of assumptions.

First The Texans ARE NOT GUILTY. A settlement is NOT an admission of Guilt. And Judge Robinson cannot consider those settlements in ANY way because the settlements happened AFTER the hearing and so they are not a part of the evidence. Secondly the NFL HAS made a decision of no punishment to the Texans and announced that the same day of the settlements. The argument others are making is that Watson is being disciplined for the same thing the Texans are not being disciplined for...which is the lawsuits that could be seen as a negative with the PCP...and if the NFL isn't even going to push any further on the Texans who had MORE lawsuits against them, why is Watson still on the hook....That is the argument others are making...But that argument doesn't even matter because Judge Robinson can't consider it anyway...

Third...Watson isn't being given a pass on the 20 settlements. The 20 settlements are not a part of the presentation of evidence "that we know of". And even if it is a part of the evidence...like the Texans..it is NOT an admission of guilt and would have no real bearing on a judgement. Watson is being considered for discipline based on 4 cases that were presented by the NFL...we don't even know if any of the 4 settled. We don't know which 4 cases she heard. It is just assumed by many that it is the 4 cases that have not yet settled. But that is not fact...the only fact that has been confirmed is the number which is 4 cases that Judge Robinson is considering. Who knows maybe the NFL picked the 4 worst cases...(just saying)

I can see a situation where Watson gets no punishment...as explained by the videos above...I can see where she blazes her own trail and makes it a much larger punishment. "I don't think" she gives the NFL the whole year...it certainly is possible.....it is just my opinion to think she won't....But we have to remind ourselves what it is she is judging. She can only consider the evidence provided in the hearing (4 cases with no witness testimony and no cross examination of witness testimony )and she will consider the post hearing summations (which would not be allowed to introduce new evidence)...And it can only be judged based upon her interpretation of the PCP...So precedence will be considered...we don't how much...but it will be...

Ok, let's be candid. Where is the official statement that the NFL is not disciplining the Texans? I have read media reports that it isn't or hasn't happened but no official NFL release. Not saying there isn't one, just saying I want to know where you saw the fact. An unnamed source is not a fact-based statement. In fact, in the above video, Florio questions if the NFLPA should ask Judge Robinson if the NFL is going to investigate the Texans for violation of the PCP and the effect that might have on Watson but the double-edged sword that the request could carry. That tells me that a) The NFLPA (according to the talking heads media) believes the Texans violated the PCP and should be considered a vital part of what happens to Watson and b) the NFL has not made any public official announcement that they are not investigating the Texans. If Florio and Eisen are right (take that with a grain of salt because it's opinionated not based on fact) Judge Robinson most certainly can take under advisement anything that pertains to the labor dispute whether it was presented in the live closed hearing or not.

Second, I never said or it wasn't intended to say the Texans were guilty because of the settlements. What I did say is their statement all but admitted guilt without saying they were guilty. If the Texans are actually guilty of a PCP violation of enabling and should be punished as is the outcry by the masses, then it stands to reason that Watson too must be guilty of violating the PCP since he was the person they were enabling. You can't scream for league justice against the Texans and then think Watson should get a bye.

It's just my opinion but I think there's too much credence being put into what Judge Robinson can and can't consider. The NFL discipline process does not have guidelines posted as to what can be or cannot be considered when handing out discipline. Thus, the reason the vast majority of discipline in the NFL is solely based on PCP violations not the legal aspects of the cases. Though a former judge, she is not a member of the court, and the discipline process is not a legal trial. Basically, she is not bound by any law as to what is admissible to be considered or not since this is not a legal proceeding. This is a labor dispute not a trial. Being I worked decades in corporate labor, in a labor dispute, you do not have witness testimony or cross - it's not a trial. The NFL presents its case to the panel (in this case Judge Robinson) as to why they are seeking a suspension for the violation of the PCP and the NFLPA presents theirs as to why Watson shouldn't be disciplined. The briefs are then filed with supporting facts all-inclusive as to the evidence each side has to bolster their sought-after result. If one of the two sides dispute Judge Robinson's finding of anything more than a zero suspension (which is detailed as final), it goes to what would be known as arbitration which in this case is either Goodell or his chosen representative. NFL PCP guidelines state that the arbitrator can let stand, increase, or decrease the punishment and has final say on the discipline. The only option then would be a lawsuit which then would be a whole different bag of worms for both sides since Watson could be called as a witness.

As far as precedent goes, I'll say this: If the NFLPA fought for and then accepted the new guidelines of having an unbiased neutral person hear the PCP disputes, it stands to reason that what was previously going on was deemed unsatisfactory by the NFLPA thus the need for change. Judge Robinson is making the first ruling under the new guidelines and will set the foundation for incidents going forward. If she is going to use precedent as the ruling force, then what was the purpose of the change? It makes no sense to fight for change and then in the very first case expects or asks for a decision that evens the score for previous wrongs based on previous rulings. Again, if the Texans committed a PCP violation denoting the guilt of enabling Watson, they should be disciplined for their actions that violate the PCP. When that happens, it doesn't matter the guilty or innocence of Watson as to the legal aspects of the cases but all 24 cases plus 6 more must be looked at as violating the PCP because the Texans are to be disciplined. To be clear, since this is a labor dispute and not a legal one determining the violation of the PCP and not the guilt or innocence according to law, Judge Robinson can and should look at any and all information in considering the appropriate discipline or not against Watson or a minimum of paid leave until all the facts are exposed.

With that all said, you nor I or the talking heads of the media have a) a clue what really transpired at the hearing since it was closed, and any information circulating is from unnamed sources that most likely are distributing opinion rather than fact. Likewise, b) none of the above have a clue as to what Judge Robinson is looking at or what she considers relevant or not. Again, it's just opinionated journalism or zealous fans and not fact based because the hearings were closed meetings about a labor dispute and nothing to do with the current legal aspects of the cases at this time. I will also buy into the precedent thing when someone shows me fact-based discipline against any player previously disciplined for 24-30 alleged sexual misconduct PCP violations.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/23/22 12:11 PM
IMO the announcement won't happen until just before the first pre-season games. The best way for the NFL to bury the news is to have real football games being played.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/23/22 02:35 PM
Legal expert point of view:

Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/23/22 03:23 PM
I imagine the judge knows she is not in a court of law and operating under the NFL CBA. So I'm not sure his points truly apply. But I also honestly think the NFL wants Watson on the field bringing in money more than they want him punished or they would have made a much stronger case against him. They have more money and lawyers than the NFLPA or any individual player by a long shot.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/23/22 03:49 PM
Who knows what anymore?

No matter what it will not please everyone.

Honestly, I just want a decision. Once camp begins the march to the season starts.

I just want an answer so I can set my true expectations for the season.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/23/22 04:51 PM
It is not a court of law. It never was. It was and in four cases remaining a civil court matter. With the case in front of Robinson it's an NFL personal conduct policy. But you know how people will reach to present a conclusion they wish to hear. And they claim they can't wait until our heads explode. lmao
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/23/22 06:11 PM
FYI: we have posters in this very thread that are legal professionals, too.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/23/22 07:10 PM
j/c

I wonder, has any NFL team in modern time made five QB moves in one off season? So far they traded one and signed four! That must be some kind of record. If all else fails this season at least they can hang their hats on that fact.

There has to at least be a movie of the week deal in there somewhere.
Posted By: Dawg Citizen Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/23/22 08:38 PM
The Browns QB carousal continues. I just wish the judge would hurry up and make a decision. Training camp is starting. The Browns really need to know soon if Watson will be suspended or not, and for how long if he is.
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/24/22 12:16 PM
Posted By: FL_Dawg Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/24/22 01:15 PM
How is that statement professional???
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/24/22 01:16 PM
It's a joke. She didn't make that tweet. LOL
Posted By: FL_Dawg Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/24/22 01:21 PM
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
It's a joke. She didn't make that tweet. LOL

Cool
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/24/22 06:14 PM
Originally Posted by FL_Dawg
How is that statement professional???

Like most things on social media, it's fake.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/24/22 10:08 PM
Originally Posted by FL_Dawg
How is that statement professional???
Haha 😂
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/25/22 01:54 PM
Originally Posted by FL_Dawg
How is that statement professional???


It's accurate and concise as can be.
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/26/22 06:48 PM
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Fully expected a decision today since the full practice training camp starts tomorrow. I guess the judge, the NFL, and the NFLPA don't care if we know who will be our Day 1 starter. Anything to shaft browns fans.
Posted By: PerfectSpiral Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/26/22 07:02 PM
I assume DW is aloud to participate in trading camp.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/26/22 07:40 PM
It must be an easy, cut and dry decision with the NFL having provided little to no evidence.
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/26/22 07:55 PM
Don't know. But I think he is allowed to participate in training camp.
Posted By: PerfectSpiral Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/26/22 07:58 PM
That could be a rare plus for the Browns.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/26/22 09:55 PM
Originally Posted by OldColdDawg
Don't know. But I think he is allowed to participate in training camp.

I am pretty sure he is allowed. I think the only way you can't is to get a indefinite suspension...more or less a ban since you have to apply to be reinstated.
I think he can even play the preseason games.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/26/22 10:05 PM
He is there now.

If he does get suspended, he will be permitted to practice and also play in preseason games. I'm not positive about this, but I think he won't be allowed in the facility once the regular season starts.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/26/22 10:09 PM
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
He is there now.

If he does get suspended, he will be permitted to practice and also play in preseason games. I'm not positive about this, but I think he won't be allowed in the facility once the regular season starts.
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
He is there now.

If he does get suspended, he will be permitted to practice and also play in preseason games. I'm not positive about this, but I think he won't be allowed in the facility once the regular season starts.

I believe that is correct. I was just talking about through the pre-season.
Posted By: FATE Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/26/22 10:15 PM
Originally Posted by PerfectSpiral
I assume DW is aloud to participate in trading camp.

Yes. He has been very vocal about wanting to get some work in. wink
Posted By: bonefish Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/26/22 11:28 PM
That's funny. I was reading a book recently "The Savage Wilderness" about the French And Indian War.

I read 90% of the book and I quit. I have never read a book with so many errors of all kinds. I could not take it anymore.

I read that. Said allowed in my head. Knew something was wrong but I had to stare at it.

Then when I post something; I am amazed at the mistakes I made.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/26/22 11:42 PM
Originally Posted by FATE
Originally Posted by PerfectSpiral
I assume DW is aloud to participate in trading camp.

Yes. He has been very vocal about wanting to get some work in. wink

He's been very vocal about wanting to buy some stocks.
Posted By: jaybird Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/26/22 11:44 PM
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
He is there now.

If he does get suspended, he will be permitted to practice and also play in preseason games. I'm not positive about this, but I think he won't be allowed in the facility once the regular season starts.


I never understood why suspended players weren't allowed to be at the facility... where all their support is... so a player messes up, gets suspend and has to be away from his support system... never made much sense...
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/27/22 12:11 AM
Posted By: Clemdawg Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/27/22 04:02 AM
Quote
I never understood why suspended players weren't allowed to be at the facility... where all their support is... so a player messes up, gets suspend and has to be away from his support system... never made much sense...

I know, right?

I've usually looked at most school suspensions for HS kids in a similar way, for the exact same reasons.

Common sense would suggest that isolation is probably the worst setting for folks in this situation.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/27/22 11:31 AM
Originally Posted by jaybird
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
He is there now.

If he does get suspended, he will be permitted to practice and also play in preseason games. I'm not positive about this, but I think he won't be allowed in the facility once the regular season starts.


I never understood why suspended players weren't allowed to be at the facility... where all their support is... so a player messes up, gets suspend and has to be away from his support system... never made much sense...

I think it probably isn't as important w/Watson [should he get suspended,] but I agree w/you. Especially in cases like Josh Gordon where the temptation to dive back into drug use would be much stronger away from the team's structure.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/27/22 11:33 AM
Here's some good news for those of us who don't want Watson severely punished. It's Albert Breer talking about why the NFL might not appeal Judge Robinson's decision.


Posted By: Damanshot Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/27/22 12:15 PM
Originally Posted by jaybird
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
He is there now.

If he does get suspended, he will be permitted to practice and also play in preseason games. I'm not positive about this, but I think he won't be allowed in the facility once the regular season starts.


I never understood why suspended players weren't allowed to be at the facility... where all their support is... so a player messes up, gets suspend and has to be away from his support system... never made much sense...

Being around support is more important if it's a drug related suspension.
Posted By: FloridaFan Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/27/22 03:50 PM
I think the real punishment would be having to practice and workout, and then forced to sit out on gameday.
Posted By: jaybird Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/28/22 01:38 AM
Originally Posted by Damanshot
Originally Posted by jaybird
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
He is there now.

If he does get suspended, he will be permitted to practice and also play in preseason games. I'm not positive about this, but I think he won't be allowed in the facility once the regular season starts.


I never understood why suspended players weren't allowed to be at the facility... where all their support is... so a player messes up, gets suspend and has to be away from his support system... never made much sense...

Being around support is more important if it's a drug related suspension.


Agree... but I still don't understand the purpose of it... even in a situation like Watson's I still think the player should be around his coaches and teammates...
Posted By: jaybird Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/28/22 01:38 AM
Originally Posted by FloridaFan
I think the real punishment would be having to practice and workout, and then forced to sit out on gameday.


100%.... I ran track and cross country in college... when we got in trouble we got extra practice and had to sit out the meet... if our grades slipped we got extra practice, mandatory time with a tutor, and sat on the meets...
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/28/22 02:13 AM
I think the reasoning is to not be allowed to contribute in any way.
Posted By: LexDawg Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/28/22 02:58 PM
Originally Posted by jaybird
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
He is there now.

If he does get suspended, he will be permitted to practice and also play in preseason games. I'm not positive about this, but I think he won't be allowed in the facility once the regular season starts.


I never understood why suspended players weren't allowed to be at the facility... where all their support is... so a player messes up, gets suspend and has to be away from his support system... never made much sense...

I'd imagine circumstances could dictate a separation, but I agree there isnt much sense in a blanket clause unless the purpose is to make staying in shape and in sync with the team harder.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/28/22 05:58 PM
Thinking about all the time and attention this drama has drawn.

It is hard to believe that Robinson has not come to a conclusion. I know she has to write an in depth report on how she arrived at her decision.

Still something else is going on IMO.

I believe that the NFL and NFLPA are trying to negotiate a deal that both would accept. That is why this is taking so long.

There are so many factors that are attached to this case that what actually happened is no longer relevant.

Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/28/22 06:04 PM
I've been focusing on being patient, but it's getting harder to maintain that.

A big reason for my impatience is that I believe this Browns team w/Watson at QB provides us w/the best chance to win big since our rebirth. I'm extremely excited about that prospect. However, if he is suspended for any more than 4 games, I feel that we have no shot and I'll prep myself for another year of disappointment.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/28/22 06:05 PM
Well that's the only option left for some people isn't it?

At first it was said that the NFL really didn't have any evidence. If that were the case a decision would have been made by now. Since they still don't believe when the hearing took three days worth of testimony to conclude that there must have been a lot of evidence provided at the hearing, they have to come up with yet a different reason for it taking so long for Robinson to render a decision.

I mean it couldn't be that the NFL provided a lot of evidence that takes a lot of time to go through and provide an extensive written explanation for her decision, right?
Posted By: bonefish Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/28/22 06:27 PM
Maybe you can explain why it took so long to make a decision about Josh Gordon?

I do not think it has a thing to do about evidence at this point.

Why do you always have to come with bs?

Why can't you discuss without having to somehow imply?
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/28/22 06:30 PM
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Well that's the only option left for some people isn't it?

At first it was said that the NFL really didn't have any evidence. If that were the case a decision would have been made by now. Since they still don't believe when the hearing took three days worth of testimony to conclude that there must have been a lot of evidence provided at the hearing, they have to come up with yet a different reason for it taking so long for Robinson to render a decision.

I mean it couldn't be that the NFL provided a lot of evidence that takes a lot of time to go through and provide an extensive written explanation for her decision, right?


Honestly, the amount of time that has elapsed kinda renders pretty much any guesses at this point silly. I get why you don't like to acknowledge the 'no evidence' snippet. That was reported by Florio, a guy that was pretty anti-Watson-abusing-massage-therapists... so if your goal is bury that you'd probably want to take it up with him. The rest of his reporting (sources/takes/insights) was being shared pretty heavily at the beginning without issue.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/28/22 06:55 PM
Actually I've never brought Florio into it. He certainly believes what he's been told.

I've only stated the obvious which continually gets ignored. We see it on this very board. People see the exact same things posted. They have seen the same quotes, snippets and texts, even from watson. People can't even agree on what those things say, imply or mean.

And that's what some people are basing their beliefs on. What one man's interpretation was of what he heard.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/28/22 07:05 PM
Originally Posted by bonefish
I do not think it has a thing to do about evidence at this point.

Oh I'm fully aware of that.

Quote
Why do you always have to come with bs?

Why do you call it BS? Was it something you don't like to hear that makes it BS? You seem to think it's taking a long time because she is waiting on a settlement. I think it's because she's actually doing her job. Why is your opinion fine and mine is BS?

Quote
Why can't you discuss without having to somehow imply?

I didn't imply anything. I outright said it. You either believe she is weighing everything out and taking her time writing her decision or you think she's in stall mode awaiting some kind of settlement. If you believe there was little to no actual evidence what other reason could you come up with to explain why it's taking so long? I thought it was pretty clear.

It seems as though a differing opinion upsets you.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/28/22 07:36 PM
Originally Posted by bonefish
Thinking about all the time and attention this drama has drawn.

It is hard to believe that Robinson has not come to a conclusion. I know she has to write an in depth report on how she arrived at her decision.

Still something else is going on IMO.

I believe that the NFL and NFLPA are trying to negotiate a deal that both would accept. That is why this is taking so long.

There are so many factors that are attached to this case that what actually happened is no longer relevant.


Here is some information on Sue Robinson that I hadn't seen before:


Quote
Who is Sue L. Robinson? What to know about retired judge making Deshaun Watson NFL suspension decision

Edward Sutelan
3 hours ago

6 min read

As NFL training camps open, the Browns are waiting to hear what will happen with newly acquired quarterback Deshaun Watson.

The former Texans QB faced more than 20 civil lawsuits alleging various forms of sexual assault and misconduct, and while he has settled most of them, four civil lawsuits remain. While two grand juries declined to indict Watson on criminal charges, the NFL conducted an investigation into the accusations and presented its findings to a former federal court judge in disciplinary hearings.


That retired judge is Sue Lewis Robinson. She has been tasked with recommending the discipline for Watson. After she issues her recommendation, the NFL can appeal the sanction to commissioner Roger Goodell, unless she decides there should not be any discipline against Watson.

The three-day hearing ended on June 30, and Robinson does not have a timeline to present her decision.



Here's all you need to know about Robinson:

Who is Sue L. Robinson?
According to the United States District Court for the District of Delaware's website, Robinson earned her bachelor's from the University of Delaware in 1974 and her juris doctor (J.D.) from the University of Pennsylvania Law School in 1978.

She went into private practice from 1978-83 in Wilmington, Delaware, before she became assistant U.S. attorney in the District of Delaware from 1983-88. Robinson became a U.S. Magistrate in the U.S. District Court for the District of Delaware from 1988-91.

On Oct. 1, 1991, after Jane R. Roth vacated her seat the U.S. District Court for the District of Delaware, President George H.W. Bush nominated Robinson to fill the seat. She was unanimously confirmed by the Senate on Nov. 15, 1991, and was commissioned on Nov. 18, 1991.

Robinson later became the first woman chief judge of the court in 2000, and held the position until 2007. She retired from the court on July 14, 2017, and joined Farnan LLP Attorneys at Law.




Sue L. Robinson major cases

The U.S. District Court for the District of Delaware saw plenty of business cases come through. Robinson handled a range of antitrust, bankruptcy, commercial, electronic discovery, intellectual property, trademark, copyright, multi-district litigation, patent, pharmaceutical and securities cases during her career, according to Fedarb.

While on the court, Robinson made some decisions in major cases that have proven controversial. According to a report from Delaware Online in 2013, Robinson heard a case in which a group of prisoners in an overcrowded state prison alleged that there was cruel and unusual punishment, with some claims that prisoners were sleeping on floor mattresses and that they were regularly being splashed by urine and feces from toilets in cells that were over-filled.


Robinson ruled that the conditions were not a violation of the prisoners' constitutional rights since they were still receiving adequate food, shelter and clothing, per Delaware Online. The decision was upheld on appeal, but one dissenting judge said the conditions "shock my conscience," especially since some were pretrial detainees who had not been convicted, but were imprisoned because they could not afford bail.

In 2014, Robinson heard a case on a law that forced groups to disclose donors if they were placing advertisements about political candidates in elections. The law had been made after the U.S. Supreme Court cut regulations for anonymous political spending in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission. The case was specifically about a group, Delaware Strong Families, that had published a voter's guide sharing stances of political individuals. The state was seeking to enforce the publication to share the donors of the political ads placed in the conservative publication, which prompted Delaware Strong Families to sue the state to block the enforcement.

Robinson prohibited the state from enforcing the law, according to Delaware Online, citing the Supreme Court case and writing that it was broadly worded and could include "virtually every communication made during the [time period before an election], no matter how indirect and unrelated it is to the electoral process." Robinson said the state could not enforce the law until the lawsuit had concluded since the publication was likely to win the lawsuit.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl...-nfl-suspension/ohayyqrwxh7wcg8wdkjswbjn
Posted By: bonefish Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/28/22 07:54 PM
I think I have been very clear that whatever someones take on all this is up to them.

I wrote:
"Thinking about all the time and attention this drama has drawn.
It is hard to believe that Robinson has not come to a conclusion. I know she has to write an in depth report on how she arrived at her decision.
Still something else is going on IMO.
I believe that the NFL and NFLPA are trying to negotiate a deal that both would accept. That is why this is taking so long.
There are so many factors that are attached to this case that what actually happened is no longer relevant."

"Well that's the only option left for some people isn't it?"

snark.

"At first it was said that the NFL really didn't have any evidence. If that were the case a decision would have been made by now. Since they still don't believe when the hearing took three days worth of testimony to conclude that there must have been a lot of evidence provided at the hearing, they have to come up with yet a different reason for it taking so long for Robinson to render a decision.

I mean it couldn't be that the NFL provided a lot of evidence that takes a lot of time to go through and provide an extensive written explanation for her decision, right?"

So tell you are not coming with attitude?

Your opinion is not the only opinion with merit.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/28/22 08:16 PM
I said those who do not believe the time being taken has to do with the evidence and that she is taking her time with writing her decision can only really fall back on saying she is waiting on a settlement. What other reason could they come up with at this point? So can you tell me what it is that's incorrect in this statement?

Quote
Well that's the only option left for some people isn't it?

You plainly stated you didn't think it had anything to do with the evidence. I'm not so sure what you find wrong with that. You can read into that whatever you like and read it any way you choose. But for those who believe there was little evidence or those who believe the delay has nothing to do with the evidence, "some people", I believe that is a very accurate statement and stand by it.

I'm sorry that upsets you.

Edit to add. I didn't say or imply that there was anything wrong with your opinion. I simply said that those who share your opinion really have no other explanation for how long it's taking.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/28/22 09:54 PM
I'd argue you did bring Florio into it when you disputed what he originally reported. More importantly, though, all we have are snippets and interpretations. Even the whole "26 women can't be liars" isn't even a fact. By the rules you seem want to have in place, we have exactly 0 pieces of information from which to rationally discuss the Watson situation.
Posted By: Halfback32 Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/29/22 09:57 AM
All any of us are doing at this point is speculating. I believe she knows that anything she rules, short of a 17 game suspension will be appealed to Goodell. So she has informed the NFL that unless something is negotiated that is beneficial to both sides, she will make no ruling at all. Making any appeal moot.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/29/22 12:28 PM
My guess is the following is going on -

1. She wants to make sure there is no appeal by the NFL. An appeal by the NFL makes the entire process a sham.

2. She cannot find a way to give the NFL what they want because their case doesn't support what they want.

3. She doesn't want to give 0 games making points 1 and 2 moot. But we are probably talking something small ...2 to 4 games.

4. Instead of issuing 2 to 4 games and making a sham of the process with an NFL appeal she is urging both sides to come to a settlement. Even a settlement will keep intact the integrity of the new process.

5. Watson's side knows the NFL has no case so they have no interest in settling. I think they are daring the NFL to appeal and counting on the backlash of such a scenario to maybe make them think twice.

6. I think the NFL, the most crooked organization in the country with the most crooked commissioner in the history of sports, does not care at all about making a sham of the process they agreed to. They want that indefinite ban with a one year minimum. The NFL, who is Roger Goodell, will appeal to well...Roger Goodell, and he will get what he wants.

7. Robinson knows this and is stalling. Wouldn't surprise me at all if she resigns if her decision is overturned.

And shame on the NFLPA for agreeing to a sham of a process. If the NFL does overturn her decision I hope the players will refuse to play. The whole league. This has the potential to affect every single player at some point.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/29/22 12:35 PM
I think the NFLPA is going to sue the NFL if the latter appeals and adds a lot of games to the possible suspension.

Btw-----Daniel Snyder spent 11 hours testifying in front of Congress yesterday. I guess that isn't an embarrassment for the league, though. rolleyes
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/29/22 12:39 PM
Sure it is. I just don't think it's as negative as all those women. 24-26-30 - Wow, that's a lot of women.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/29/22 12:41 PM
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
I think the NFLPA is going to sue the NFL if the latter appeals and adds a lot of games to the possible suspension.

I think they will as well. And I think they should.

But that doesn't help Deshaun get on the field, which at the end of the day is the only thing I care about.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/29/22 01:56 PM
Originally Posted by Rishuz
My guess is the following is going on -

1. She wants to make sure there is no appeal by the NFL. An appeal by the NFL makes the entire process a sham.

2. She cannot find a way to give the NFL what they want because their case doesn't support what they want.

3. She doesn't want to give 0 games making points 1 and 2 moot. But we are probably talking something small ...2 to 4 games.

4. Instead of issuing 2 to 4 games and making a sham of the process with an NFL appeal she is urging both sides to come to a settlement. Even a settlement will keep intact the integrity of the new process.

5. Watson's side knows the NFL has no case so they have no interest in settling. I think they are daring the NFL to appeal and counting on the backlash of such a scenario to maybe make them think twice.

6. I think the NFL, the most crooked organization in the country with the most crooked commissioner in the history of sports, does not care at all about making a sham of the process they agreed to. They want that indefinite ban with a one year minimum. The NFL, who is Roger Goodell, will appeal to well...Roger Goodell, and he will get what he wants.

7. Robinson knows this and is stalling. Wouldn't surprise me at all if she resigns if her decision is overturned.


8. Sue Robinson is a fictitious person.
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/29/22 02:04 PM
Originally Posted by Rishuz
My guess is the following is going on -

1. She wants to make sure there is no appeal by the NFL. An appeal by the NFL makes the entire process a sham.

2. She cannot find a way to give the NFL what they want because their case doesn't support what they want.

3. She doesn't want to give 0 games making points 1 and 2 moot. But we are probably talking something small ...2 to 4 games.

4. Instead of issuing 2 to 4 games and making a sham of the process with an NFL appeal she is urging both sides to come to a settlement. Even a settlement will keep intact the integrity of the new process.

5. Watson's side knows the NFL has no case so they have no interest in settling. I think they are daring the NFL to appeal and counting on the backlash of such a scenario to maybe make them think twice.

6. I think the NFL, the most crooked organization in the country with the most crooked commissioner in the history of sports, does not care at all about making a sham of the process they agreed to. They want that indefinite ban with a one year minimum. The NFL, who is Roger Goodell, will appeal to well...Roger Goodell, and he will get what he wants.

7. Robinson knows this and is stalling. Wouldn't surprise me at all if she resigns if her decision is overturned.

And shame on the NFLPA for agreeing to a sham of a process. If the NFL does overturn her decision I hope the players will refuse to play. The whole league. This has the potential to affect every single player at some point.

Pretty much where I am at too regarding what each side is thinking at the moment. No real clue what this extended time w/o a decision means about games, though.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/29/22 02:17 PM
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/29/22 02:51 PM
Put on a cup, Watson!!
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/29/22 03:01 PM
Or a really small towel!
Posted By: jfanent Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/29/22 03:18 PM
Originally Posted by Rishuz
Or a really small towel!

Looks like that's all he needs.
Posted By: mac Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/29/22 03:19 PM
Report: No Deshaun Watson decision today

Posted by Mike Florio on July 29, 2022, 10:54 AM EDT
link


After the three-day Deshaun Watson hearing ended four weeks ago yesterday, I predicted that we’d have a decision from Judge Sue L. Robinson during the week of July 25. I’ve got one more day to be not incorrect. It looks like I will be. Incorrect, that is.

Rob Maaddi of the Associated Press reports that the waiting game will continue into next week, with no decision coming today.

So when can a decision be expected? It’s been 29 days since the hearing ended. It’s been 17 days since the parties submitted written briefs. The Collective Bargaining Agreement contains no specific timetable for issuing a decision. However, it requires that a decision be issued “as soon as practicable following the conclusion of the hearing.”

That’s a potentially broad standard. What is, or isn’t, practicable? It depends on the case.

In this one, she’ll need to prepare a written ruling that explains what the evidence was, what the evidence wasn’t, what she believed the facts to be, and how the Personal Conduct Policy applies to those facts. It will need to be clear and understandable, especially if she imposes a suspension that falls far short of the one-year ban the league has requested. The average person will need to be able to read (if they so choose) the document and to understand why she decided whatever she decides.

Whatever the decision, it’s reportedly not coming today. Which implies that Judge Robinson has told the league and/or the NFL Players Association that a decision isn’t coming today. Which suggests that she’s keenly aware of the fact that folks would like to know what’s going to happen.
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/29/22 03:27 PM
j/c:

Posted By: Milk Man Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/29/22 03:35 PM
Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie
j/c:


Just as suspected.....nobody has a clue!
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/29/22 03:55 PM
Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie
j/c:



Obviously we're well into the "read too much into everything" phase, but I took this tweet to mean that the NFL/NFLPA ongoing negotiations theory is not true.
Posted By: Homewood Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/29/22 03:59 PM
I can understand why some of my fellow posters feel the way they do about DW and that's fine. Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion and I respect that. If Deshaun leads us to a Super Bowl victory, and I hope he does, I don't think too many of my fellow Browns fans will be thinking about what he did or didn't do. JMO
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/29/22 04:21 PM
Originally Posted by oobernoober
Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie
j/c:



Obviously we're well into the "read too much into everything" phase, but I took this tweet to mean that the NFL/NFLPA ongoing negotiations theory is not true.

Maybe.

peen and 05 can correct me if I am wrong, but it seems likely the former judge would want the parties to settle. Perhaps the two sides are just really far, far apart on what would be an acceptable suspension? Of course, I'm just guessing. No one knows jack.
Posted By: mac Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/29/22 04:36 PM
A bit more info from AP as of 10:02am...




AP sources: No decision in Watson discipline case this week

ROB MAADDI, AP Pro Football Writer
July 29, 2022, Updated: July 29, 2022 10:02 a.m.
link

The wait for a decision on potential discipline for Cleveland Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson following accusations of sexual misconduct will continue into another week.

Two people with knowledge of the situation told The Associated Press that retired judge Sue L. Robinson is not issuing a ruling Friday on Watson’s disciplinary hearing that concluded a month ago. They spoke to the AP on condition of anonymity because the discussions are private.

Watson was accused of sexual harassment and assault by 24 massage therapists and has settled 20 of the civil lawsuits. Two separate Texas grand juries declined to indict Watson on criminal complaints stemming from the allegations.

Watson, who played for four seasons with Houston before being traded to Cleveland in March, has been practicing with the Browns while Robinson has spent weeks trying to determine whether the three-time Pro Bowl quarterback violated the NFL’s personal conduct policy and whether to impose discipline.

The league argued for an indefinite suspension of at least one year during a three-day hearing in Delaware last month. The NFL Players’ Association pushed for no punishment, though a person familiar with Watson’s defense told the AP in June that a suspension is expected and the goal is to have Watson play this season.

Both sides submitted post-hearing briefs by July 12 and hoped for a decision before training camp opened this week. Robinson is carefully considering the case and isn’t held to a deadline.

If Robinson, who was jointly appointed by the league and the players’ union, imposes any punishment, either side can appeal. In that case, NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell or his designee “will issue a written decision that will constitute full, final and complete disposition of the dispute,” per terms of Article 46 in the collective bargaining agreement.

Jacoby Brissett would replace Watson as Cleveland's starter during a suspension.

“With Deshaun, I know there is that uncertainty, like we talked about (Wednesday), but we can only control what we can control," Browns coach Kevin Stefanski said Thursday. "I think that is what he has done a very nice job of. So much of that in football is there is a lot of volume to what we are doing right now when it comes to football, so there are a lot of meetings, there is a lot of install and there is a lot of workout, walkthrough and practice. He has really thrown himself into that.”

AP Sports Writer Tom Withers contributed to this report.
Posted By: superbowldogg Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/29/22 04:38 PM
Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie
Put on a cup, Watson!!

why are you looking at his lack of a cup?
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/29/22 06:00 PM
Originally Posted by oobernoober
I'd argue you did bring Florio into it when you disputed what he originally reported. More importantly, though, all we have are snippets and interpretations. Even the whole "26 women can't be liars" isn't even a fact. By the rules you seem want to have in place, we have exactly 0 pieces of information from which to rationally discuss the Watson situation.


A first hand account by a victim is considered as evidence. Repeating an account second hand is hearsay.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/29/22 06:13 PM
Had the two sides have been able to reach a settlement that would have taken place well before now. I think it's much the way Vers describes it. The two sides are nowhere close. They were never close because if they were it would have been a done deal. Let's face it, all of this being in the press day in and day out isn't good for anyone.

They knew they weren't close going into the hearing. So did Robinson. There was and is no real chance for any settlement and hasn't been for some time now. All there is left to do is wait.

I actually expected a decision late today so as to help bury the outcome in the week-end news cycle where less press is out there. Where people are busy and do not follow the news as much. The reason being no matter which way this all goes down it won't be pretty. Over half of the population are women and while not all women will think the same way, there will certainly be a big outcry if they go easy on watson.

About 15% of the population are minorities and they also don't all think the same. But you'll hear an outcry from many of them if the suspension on watson is harsh. It's pretty much a lose/lose proposition either way it goes.

But the more I read the less I expect that decision to come today. I still however wouldn't be surprised if it does.
Posted By: dawglover05 Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/29/22 06:26 PM
I think that's fair speculation. In my experience, I've never come across a judge who did not prefer a settlement vs a ruling. They may hint at leverage sometimes by indicating where one side's argument seems to be falling short to hopefully level set the negotiations. Like you said, I don't know if that has been done in this case or not.
Posted By: dawglover05 Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/29/22 06:28 PM
I could see her issuing the ruling in the same manner that Michael Scott told Andy that Angela was cheating on him.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/29/22 06:39 PM
I have on idea what that reference means.
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/29/22 08:35 PM
Originally Posted by superbowldogg
Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie
Put on a cup, Watson!!

why are you looking at his lack of a cup?

Because I'm nuts.
Posted By: dawglover05 Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/29/22 08:55 PM
Don't start with that junk.
Posted By: THROW LONG Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/29/22 09:12 PM
Originally Posted by Homewood Dog
If Deshaun leads us to a Super Bowl victory, and I hope he does, I don't think too many of my fellow Browns fans will be thinking about what he did or didn't do. JMO
That is fine if some people want to feel that way. However, many fans may have become Browns fans, in the good old days not just because the Browns were good, but because unlike the college game, the NFL teams kept their players longer than 4 years, or 2-3 productive years.
And when the Browns, act like they don't care about the players who suit up, or recently just suited up for their team, and act that way consistently, then I don't think the Browns, in those times, reflect the best of the 32 NFL franchises, in fact I can't think of any, let alone 3 other NFL franchises that so consistently don't seem to have their own players backs, instead of the next outside prospect
And maybe it doesn't mean anything to them
maybe it doesn't matter to the team.
The team represents the city, and the state, and there's always something to that.
Posted By: Razorthorns Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/29/22 10:29 PM
Originally Posted by Homewood Dog
I can understand why some of my fellow posters feel the way they do about DW and that's fine. Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion and I respect that. If Deshaun leads us to a Super Bowl victory, and I hope he does, I don't think too many of my fellow Browns fans will be thinking about what he did or didn't do. JMO

I'm a father to 2 girls. I would never leave them alone in the same room at Watson. I won't be watching the Browns until he is gone either. The man did not prove himself innocent. He just paid them enough money to shut them up and then there are all the ones the Texan paid off. That's over 50 women that had to be paid shut up money. Only 4 were will to say to hell with the money we want you in court. I get it though since it's very hard to prove one way or another but to put it into context ... if you leave Walmart and just 5 people say you stole something then chances are you are going to jail. I'm just saying.

I don't believe it's ok to put a sexual predator on a pedestal and say he is a great man just because he can throw a football. I can't support a team that allows this kind of behavior to be OK so I am done until he is off the team. It's not about the wins or losses it's about having pride in something that represents home. Yeah I want to win but not at any cost.
Posted By: Homewood Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/29/22 10:53 PM
I have a daughter too Razor so I understand what you are saying. I don't think anyone will say DW is a great man just a very good QB.
Posted By: JPPT1974 Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/30/22 12:07 AM
Poor ladies as really they need to be named if they want. Proving they are survivors not victims. They need to band together like the other women did in the Cosby case. Really DW facing 2-9 game suspension is a slap on the list there. Needs to be suspended for a year or two. Just saying. But so far it seems for now, the criminal aspect of the case seems to be put on t he backburner.
Posted By: Clemdawg Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/30/22 02:38 AM
Originally Posted by superbowldogg
Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie
Put on a cup, Watson!!

why are you looking at his lack of a cup?


Not for nothin', but it's literally in the exact center of the picture.
Kinda hard to miss... or maybe not-
Posted By: Pdawg Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/30/22 05:36 AM
Originally Posted by Clemdawg
Originally Posted by superbowldogg
Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie
Put on a cup, Watson!!

why are you looking at his lack of a cup?


Not for nothin', but it's literally in the exact center of the picture.
Kinda hard to miss... or maybe not-


I don't know. I missed it. Maybe there is something you and Memphis would like to share?

Just kidding. I was a wrestling coach so that might have something to do with me not noticing it.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/30/22 07:11 AM
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Had the two sides have been able to reach a settlement that would have taken place well before now. I think it's much the way Vers describes it. The two sides are nowhere close. They were never close because if they were it would have been a done deal. Let's face it, all of this being in the press day in and day out isn't good for anyone.

They knew they weren't close going into the hearing. So did Robinson. There was and is no real chance for any settlement and hasn't been for some time now. All there is left to do is wait.

I actually expected a decision late today so as to help bury the outcome in the week-end news cycle where less press is out there. Where people are busy and do not follow the news as much. The reason being no matter which way this all goes down it won't be pretty. Over half of the population are women and while not all women will think the same way, there will certainly be a big outcry if they go easy on watson.

About 15% of the population are minorities and they also don't all think the same. But you'll hear an outcry from many of them if the suspension on watson is harsh. It's pretty much a lose/lose proposition either way it goes.

But the more I read the less I expect that decision to come today. I still however wouldn't be surprised if it does.

The sport news cycle might be highest on weekends. The best time to bury it is during preseason when there is game action. The very best is once the season starts, or just before.

Actually, the idea of burying the news pertained to newspapers. Saturday was the lowest readership day, so you wanted a release on Friday afternoon. With todays loss of newspapers to round the clock news cycles on several networks, not to mention all of the social platforms, I am not sure there is a thing as burying the news any longer.

One thing to remember, this situation impacts us Browns fans and a few ex-Browns fans. While it is top of the mind for us fans, it isn't the same around the country. I don't think people care all that much. I know I wasn't paying all that much attention to the situations with other players when they ran afoul of the NFL conduct policy.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/30/22 11:04 AM
Legal Analyst speculates on what Judge Robinson's timetable might mean for us remaining Browns fans.


Posted By: Damanshot Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/30/22 02:10 PM
Originally Posted by Homewood Dog
I can understand why some of my fellow posters feel the way they do about DW and that's fine. Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion and I respect that. If Deshaun leads us to a Super Bowl victory, and I hope he does, I don't think too many of my fellow Browns fans will be thinking about what he did or didn't do. JMO

I suppose that is correct. sadly, we seem to, as a whole, consider his W/L record over his personal conduct record..

I'll cheer him on as a Browns fan because I cheer for the Browns, not one player over another. No matter what however, I think this kid has a bad record of conduct... Nothing can change it.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/30/22 02:30 PM
Originally Posted by Damanshot
Originally Posted by Homewood Dog
I can understand why some of my fellow posters feel the way they do about DW and that's fine. Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion and I respect that. If Deshaun leads us to a Super Bowl victory, and I hope he does, I don't think too many of my fellow Browns fans will be thinking about what he did or didn't do. JMO

I suppose that is correct. sadly, we seem to, as a whole, consider his W/L record over his personal conduct record..

I'll cheer him on as a Browns fan because I cheer for the Browns, not one player over another. No matter what however, I think this kid has a bad record of conduct... Nothing can change it.

I am only speaking for myself.

I don't believe in condemning a man w/out the burden of proof. I don't believe in he had to "prove his innocence" that was stated earlier on this page. I do not think I am omniscient and know all the facts of the case. I rely on the legal system to sort out legal issues. I do not believe in the mob mentality and find the Court of Public Opinion to be fickle and narrow-minded. I think it is wrong to say a man is a bad person w/out proof and it's unfortunate that so many people assume one's guilt and that man's name will be tarnished forever by those who are unworthy to decide guilt and innocence. I don't know if Watson is guilty or innocent, but I refuse to assign guilt to a man who has not even been charged w/a crime, nevermind convicted of one.

I have no problem w/others if they don't want to root for the Browns for any reason. However, I do not like the trolls who don't like the team and come on here and trash the team and its fans repeatedly. Everyone has a choice to make, but to purposely make others miserable is not a good characteristic.
Posted By: mac Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/30/22 03:21 PM
Those who criticize Watson and his past 'off the field behavior' should not be labeled as "trolls" just because their opinions concerning Watson are different than your own !

Keep that in mind...jmo
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/30/22 03:28 PM
I agree w/you and I did not say that.

Keep that in mind.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/30/22 04:27 PM
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
I agree w/you and I did not say that.

Keep that in mind.

So you deny that you asked oober not to quote me because I'm just a troll? You know better than that. So do those who saw it.
Posted By: Baker_Dawg Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/31/22 04:05 AM
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Originally Posted by Damanshot
Originally Posted by Homewood Dog
I can understand why some of my fellow posters feel the way they do about DW and that's fine. Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion and I respect that. If Deshaun leads us to a Super Bowl victory, and I hope he does, I don't think too many of my fellow Browns fans will be thinking about what he did or didn't do. JMO

I suppose that is correct. sadly, we seem to, as a whole, consider his W/L record over his personal conduct record..

I'll cheer him on as a Browns fan because I cheer for the Browns, not one player over another. No matter what however, I think this kid has a bad record of conduct... Nothing can change it.

I am only speaking for myself.

I don't believe in condemning a man w/out the burden of proof. I don't believe in he had to "prove his innocence" that was stated earlier on this page. I do not think I am omniscient and know all the facts of the case. I rely on the legal system to sort out legal issues. I do not believe in the mob mentality and find the Court of Public Opinion to be fickle and narrow-minded. I think it is wrong to say a man is a bad person w/out proof and it's unfortunate that so many people assume one's guilt and that man's name will be tarnished forever by those who are unworthy to decide guilt and innocence. I don't know if Watson is guilty or innocent, but I refuse to assign guilt to a man who has not even been charged w/a crime, nevermind convicted of one.

I have no problem w/others if they don't want to root for the Browns for any reason. However, I do not like the trolls who don't like the team and come on here and trash the team and its fans repeatedly. Everyone has a choice to make, but to purposely make others miserable is not a good characteristic.


This is a comical thread. The bullcrap self-righteous defense of the poor millionaire QB, framed, when all he was trying to do was support a few score of young female massage therapists. Have some self-respect and just say I'll root for anyone with a pulse no matter how despicable if it helps my team win.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/31/22 08:57 AM
Originally Posted by mac
Those who criticize Watson and his past 'off the field behavior' should not be labeled as "trolls" just because their opinions concerning Watson are different than your own !

Keep that in mind...jmo

I agree, but it goes much beyond that.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/31/22 10:21 AM
Speaking of trolls.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/31/22 12:10 PM
This was part of a larger article, but I was able to find clips of this fairly important data.




[Linked Image from media.pff.com]



Quote
This graph represents a QB’s ability to overcome the expectations they’ve created. Quarterbacks such as Deshaun Watson and Drew Brees — who are not great decision-makers — can still produce at effective clips by overcoming their decision-making and executing above their expectation. The ability to execute is likely the most important QB metric because how well a QB executes — the X-axis of the above graph — better predicts next year's EPA(R value of 0.46) than EPA itself (0.43).
Posted By: steve0255 Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/31/22 12:33 PM
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Originally Posted by Damanshot
Originally Posted by Homewood Dog
I can understand why some of my fellow posters feel the way they do about DW and that's fine. Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion and I respect that. If Deshaun leads us to a Super Bowl victory, and I hope he does, I don't think too many of my fellow Browns fans will be thinking about what he did or didn't do. JMO

I suppose that is correct. sadly, we seem to, as a whole, consider his W/L record over his personal conduct record..

I'll cheer him on as a Browns fan because I cheer for the Browns, not one player over another. No matter what however, I think this kid has a bad record of conduct... Nothing can change it.

I am only speaking for myself.

I don't believe in condemning a man w/out the burden of proof. I don't believe in he had to "prove his innocence" that was stated earlier on this page. I do not think I am omniscient and know all the facts of the case. I rely on the legal system to sort out legal issues. I do not believe in the mob mentality and find the Court of Public Opinion to be fickle and narrow-minded. I think it is wrong to say a man is a bad person w/out proof and it's unfortunate that so many people assume one's guilt and that man's name will be tarnished forever by those who are unworthy to decide guilt and innocence. I don't know if Watson is guilty or innocent, but I refuse to assign guilt to a man who has not even been charged w/a crime, nevermind convicted of one.

I have no problem w/others if they don't want to root for the Browns for any reason. However, I do not like the trolls who don't like the team and come on here and trash the team and its fans repeatedly. Everyone has a choice to make, but to purposely make others miserable is not a good characteristic.

With all that you said while standing on your soapbox preaching your holier than thou campaign for Watson, you have no problem attacking the integrity of the lawyer or what is now 30 women claiming sexual misconduct and abuse. You claim to not be omniscient yet have no problem discounting 20 of the settled cases due to legal mumbo jumbo of an NDA attached to a settlement that conveniently admits no quilt while forking over untold millions for their silence. All this while posting discrimination claims against the NFL for not lowering the hammer on the Texans for settling enabling claims using the exact same settlement mumbo jumbo that Watson is trying to pass off as proof of innocence.

To be candid, for a person who claims to not believe in mob mentality and finds the Court of Public opinion fickle and narrow-minded, you are doing the exact same wrong thing to the lawyer and his 30 plus clients by questioning their motives and are fine with tarnishing them forever with the character assassination of said individuals to fit your narrative. You're no more worthy to decide guilt or innocence than the monkey at the zoo. If you really cared about the guilt or innocence of Watson, you would be campaigning for his day in court where he would have to take the stand and answer all 30 plus alleged claims in front of a jury of his peers in a civil setting. Instead, the mob mentality of admitting no quilt while forking over millions with an NDA while maintaining your character assassination of the plaintiffs while ignoring any suggestion that Watson violated the NFL PCP is your campaign. Narrow-minded and fickle - look in the mirror!
Posted By: FL_Dawg Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/31/22 12:41 PM
Speaking of trolls ☝
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/31/22 12:46 PM
Good morning, steve. Glad to see you in such a good mood.

I'm in a good mood too. We are going from Baker [ranked 32nd or 33rd] in QB Execution Relative to Decision to Watson who is ranked 3rd overall for the time period of 2019--2021. It's great being a Browns fan!
Posted By: superbowldogg Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/31/22 12:58 PM
anything that mentions Watson and his good decision-making skills probably should not be discussed. lol
Posted By: Damanshot Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/31/22 01:06 PM
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Good morning, steve. Glad to see you in such a good mood.

I'm in a good mood too. We are going from Baker [ranked 32nd or 33rd] in QB Execution Relative to Decision to Watson who is ranked 3rd overall for the time period of 2019--2021. It's great being a Browns fan!


Is that for his career or just last season?
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/31/22 01:07 PM
Originally Posted by Damanshot
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Good morning, steve. Glad to see you in such a good mood.

I'm in a good mood too. We are going from Baker [ranked 32nd or 33rd] in QB Execution Relative to Decision to Watson who is ranked 3rd overall for the time period of 2019--2021. It's great being a Browns fan!


Is that for his career or just last season?

See the green text.
Posted By: steve0255 Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/31/22 01:24 PM
Same to you Vers, glad you're happy. You know, no one has ever questioned Watson's football ability.

Ted Kaczynski, the UNABOMBER, did have a high I.Q., by some estimates into the 160’s. He was a Harvard graduate, mathematics prodigy, and math professor. His I.Q. tested at 167 in junior high school (well into the genius level). Even his classmates in high school considered him a “walking brain.” He skipped the 6th and 11th grade and graduated high school at 15. He entered Harvard on a scholarship at age 16. He had both a master’s and PhD from the University of Michigan. In 1967, at the age of 25, he became the youngest assistant professor at U.C., Berkeley. He was definitely a brilliant guy, but just a little deranged with baggage that offset his known intelligence.

Watson is a fine football player. That does not give him a pass on his off the field activities. While your concern is purely focused on a single aspect of Watson's life (football), others of us look at the total package and demand answers where money can't buy silence before anointing him the face of our beloved franchise or being an idol for our kids with such disturbing baggage in his closet. You're ok with that obviously - most are not.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/31/22 01:28 PM
I wouldn't dream of telling you how to look at Watson. It's a personal decision. And my decision is my own.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/31/22 02:27 PM
Unabomber?

What are you driving at? I don't get the connection at all.

How about the people who are in charge of determining about how to proceed?

Sue Robinson the former federal judge who is reviewing all relevant information. The person who was agreed upon by the NFL and NFLPA.

Don't make the mistake that somehow you are her. And don't assume "most are not."

How about each gets to make their own decision on how they want to look at this. You are fully entitled to your view.

Give others the same respect.
Posted By: mac Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/31/22 02:50 PM
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
This was part of a larger article, but I was able to find clips of this fairly important data.




[Linked Image from media.pff.com]



Quote
This graph represents a QB’s ability to overcome the expectations they’ve created. Quarterbacks such as Deshaun Watson and Drew Brees — who are not great decision-makers — can still produce at effective clips by overcoming their decision-making and executing above their expectation. The ability to execute is likely the most important QB metric because how well a QB executes — the X-axis of the above graph — better predicts next year's EPA(R value of 0.46) than EPA itself (0.43).


vers...you got a link for the graph..I would like to read more.
Posted By: jfanent Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/31/22 03:41 PM
If you hit the quote button, you can see the link in the image tag.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/31/22 03:45 PM
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
We are going from Baker [ranked 32nd or 33rd] in QB Execution Relative to Decision to Watson who is ranked 3rd overall for the time period of 2019--2021. It's great being a Browns fan!

Obvious admission that winning means more than morality.
Posted By: Floquinho Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/31/22 06:19 PM
We can assume that the reason it takes so long time for judge Robinson to deliver a verdict is because NFL and NFLPA can’t agree on accepting her decision.

I continue to believe that a suspension shorter then one year will be very hard for the commissioner to accept. Imagine accepting 12 games suspension and a couple of weeks later another women comes with new allegations. The NFL just can’t end up in such position just before the season starts.
Posted By: steve0255 Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/31/22 07:09 PM
Originally Posted by bonefish
Unabomber?

What are you driving at? I don't get the connection at all.

How about the people who are in charge of determining about how to proceed?

Sue Robinson the former federal judge who is reviewing all relevant information. The person who was agreed upon by the NFL and NFLPA.

Don't make the mistake that somehow you are her. And don't assume "most are not."

How about each gets to make their own decision on how they want to look at this. You are fully entitled to your view.

Give others the same respect.

The comparison is just as Watson has excellent football skills as the Unabomber was a genius at math doesn't tell the whole story or give him a pass on what he's done outside his skillset. It can be argued that the Unabomber was one of the greatest math minds that ever lived but that doesn't mean I should ignore the fact he sent mail bombs because I need a math genius.

Nobody is more in tune with Robinson reviewing all the information and enforcing the agreed upon new practice via the contract that states she would be the new way of deciding things. However, it's hypocritical to now say she needs to even the score by giving Watson a light suspension to make up for what the NFLPA determined as unfair practices previously. What's the purpose of the NFLPA agreeing to change the procedure only to threaten lawsuits over past practices if you don't even the score during her first case?

I haven't mistaken that I am her - have you? I do not have to assume "most are not." An online survey launched by a nonprofit called Stop Street Harassment offers some striking evidence regarding sexual harassment and/or misconduct. It found that 81 percent of women had experienced some form of sexual harassment during their lifetime. The results show that 77 percent of women had experienced verbal sexual harassment, and 51 percent had been sexually touched without their permission. About 41 percent said they had been sexually harassed online. Add whatever percentage that you may want of male support, and I can safely say "most are not" ok with what Watson is accused of.

I am in total agreement with your statement that each gets to make their own decision on how to look at this. What I am not ok with is the constant character assassination of the women, the name calling and anti-loyalty claims against individuals because they don't support Watson's off the field antics or being called a troll because the group won't kiss Watson's azz because he can throw a football. You are right that individuals should be entitled to their own views unless of course your stand is anti-Watson due to his off the field activities - then you're not entitled.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/31/22 08:11 PM
"Most are not" I thought was a reference to Browns fans.

I may be wrong because of I am only looking at sports related media and what people have posted on this Board.

I have not seen or heard of people attacking the women.

It is my belief that many are just waiting for a decision from Robinson. Personally I am good with whatever is decided.

They have been privy to everything that is known which is more than any of us are.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/31/22 08:29 PM
Quote
I am in total agreement with your statement that each gets to make their own decision on how to look at this. What I am not ok with is the constant character assassination of the women, the name calling and anti-loyalty claims against individuals because they don't support Watson's off the field antics or being called a troll because the group won't kiss Watson's azz because he can throw a football. You are right that individuals should be entitled to their own views unless of course your stand is anti-Watson due to his off the field activities - then you're not entitled.

This is not true. I think people have been very kind towards the women on this board. It sounds a lot different in the Comments sections after most videos and articles. I also think the name calling and insults are coming from your side. Just look at our earlier exchange. You comparing me to a monkey and me saying good morning. The troll comment I will stand by, but there is a caveat. I have repeatedly stated that I don't blame people if they don't want to root for the Browns because of Watson or frankly, any reason at all. However, if one says he is no longer rooting for the team and then comes on to this board every single day and trashes the team and posters who support the team, what the hell is he if not a troll? Guys like Clem and cfrs are uncomfortable w/Watson being on the team. No one questions them about it. Then again, they don't hurl insults at those of us who are okay w/the Browns on a daily basis.

I'll be clear. I have NO PROBLEM w/you if you don't like the signing of Watson and don't want to root for the team. NONE!!!!! Just don't insult me every time you speak to me because I feel differently. Frankly, I'd be fine if you and I never spoke again.
Posted By: archbolddawg Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/31/22 08:35 PM
First off, I'm a Browns fan. Got it?

Second, I do not and did not endorse the trade for DW.

I'm a Browns fan, not a fan of any particular player. A Browns fan. It is possible to not like the signing, while still being a fan of the team.

I feel I need to explain that to you because you have previously labeled me as a Baker fan.

Now, if they guy that said he can't be a Browns fan any longer, but just stays here to start crap, could just leave, that would be neat.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/31/22 08:44 PM
Originally Posted by archbolddawg
First off, I'm a Browns fan. Got it?

Second, I do not and did not endorse the trade for DW.

I'm a Browns fan, not a fan of any particular player. A Browns fan. It is possible to not like the signing, while still being a fan of the team.

I feel I need to explain that to you because you have previously labeled me as a Baker fan.

Now, if they guy that said he can't be a Browns fan any longer, but just stays here to start crap, could just leave, that would be neat.

Again, I have no problem w/guys like you who don't like the signing. It's a choice.

There is one person who admitted he was going to troll us. You even replied to the guy and called him out. Two others did, as well. The refs deleted the posts shortly afterwards. I think you know who the other guy is that says he isn't rooting for the team and posts on here daily while belittling other posters on almost every single post he makes. Then, there is Baker Dawg. He's been a Baker fan all along and is trolling us bad.

Big difference from being a troll and just not liking the signing. Again, I have ZERO problems w/anyone who doesn't like the signing and/or doesn't want to root for. the team anymore because of it. It's free choice. I just think trolling is bogus.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/31/22 08:45 PM
"not privy"

my mistake
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/31/22 08:56 PM
You don't get to call others trolls. YOU ARE PROJECTING. But I don't really care what you have to say, so whatever.

I nominate you WINNER of SILLY SEASON.
Posted By: archbolddawg Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/31/22 09:07 PM
I didn't realize some posts got deleted. And yes, everyone knows who the now 'non browns' fan is, and his statement that he'd stick around just to be a ......not sure how to say it.......bug.

But, larry gotta be larry.
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/31/22 10:32 PM
j/c:



Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/31/22 10:51 PM
It will be good to know.......one way or the other.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/31/22 10:52 PM
Great. Want to get over with.
Posted By: Iluvmyxstripper Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 07/31/22 11:46 PM
I love how some people get some emotionally jacked up over this DeShawn Watson case
Does it really matter in the big scheme of things what happened between
Watson and the massage therapists?
He is a QB of a football team that has a legion of fans and supporters.
Its merely a game. A sport. It's not life and death.
Football is a escape from the stresses and trials of real life.
Yet we got bozos on here acting like their daughters have this super emotional
Dilemma in regards to supporting the Browns cause the starting QB
Was testing sexual boundries. Whoopie doo.
Sport franchises are not vehicles for moral highways
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 08/01/22 12:02 AM
j/c:





My initial reaction is that they would only come out and say this if they knew the outcome and are happy with it. But I suppose it could mean they just want to move on as well. And if the sides already know this statement seems to indicate there is a suspension of some sort or else, if there wasn't, the NFLPA wouldn't be calling for the NFL to not appeal a decision because, well, they couldn't appeal.
Posted By: Pdawg Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 08/01/22 12:02 AM
Posted By: archbolddawg Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 08/01/22 12:09 AM
That's neat and all, but just watch if it doesn't go the way the nflpa thinks it will....
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 08/01/22 12:13 AM
Originally Posted by archbolddawg
That's neat and all, but just watch if it doesn't go the way the nflpa thinks it will....

I guess that's my point. The way this statement reads, to me at least, is that they do know.
Posted By: superbowldogg Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 08/01/22 12:20 AM
I wonder how long he will be suspended.

I'm guessing 4-6 games
Posted By: Pdawg Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 08/01/22 12:45 AM
Posted By: hitt Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 08/01/22 12:50 AM
JMHO, I think the judge is going to SHOCK the world. No punishment, because the owners are held to a HIGHER standard and they've received little or NO punishment.....GO Browns!!!
Posted By: keithfromxenia Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 08/01/22 01:09 AM
Espn headline says report coming out Monday. Hopefully all will accept it
Posted By: FATE Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 08/01/22 01:15 AM
Originally Posted by hitt
JMHO, I think the judge is going to SHOCK the world. No punishment, because the owners are held to a HIGHER standard and they've received little or NO punishment.....GO Browns!!!

I'll bet you, and anyone that thinks like you, that she specifically says her decision and judgment on this case has nothing to do with previous cases concerning owners.
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 08/01/22 01:17 AM
j/c:

Posted By: FATE Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 08/01/22 01:18 AM
Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie
Originally Posted by archbolddawg
That's neat and all, but just watch if it doesn't go the way the nflpa thinks it will....

I guess that's my point. The way this statement reads, to me at least, is that they do know.

They would have to know to make that statement, right? Besides, she's been trying to get them to settle, so she would have to had supplied some framework.

Maybe it's the standard 4 games? As I've said many times, it would be really hard to push for more than 6 games (language in the contract) because DW is not a violent or repeat offender.
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 08/01/22 01:25 AM
j/c:

Posted By: Rishuz Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 08/01/22 01:30 AM
NFL wants 12 games? LOL...what a clown show.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 08/01/22 01:34 AM
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 08/01/22 01:35 AM
I'm still holding onto my prediction that nobody will appeal/challenge her decision.
I'm betting that they've all already colluded and come to an agreement, but rather than letting it be know that there's a settlement, they're letting their new process have its first run and all sides, already knowing what it will be, will just nod sagely and accept her "decision".
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 08/01/22 01:56 AM
Originally Posted by PrplPplEater
I'm still holding onto my prediction that nobody will appeal/challenge her decision.
I'm betting that they've all already colluded and come to an agreement, but rather than letting it be know that there's a settlement, they're letting their new process have its first run and all sides, already knowing what it will be, will just nod sagely and accept her "decision".

It's pretty obvious this is what's happening. NFLPA issued their statement just to make sure there is no last minute "funny business" by the NFL.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 08/01/22 02:03 AM
Not being able to place a bet on the O/U on the length of the suspension is just poor form by Vegas!
Posted By: LexDawg Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 08/01/22 02:04 AM
Originally Posted by FATE
Originally Posted by hitt
JMHO, I think the judge is going to SHOCK the world. No punishment, because the owners are held to a HIGHER standard and they've received little or NO punishment.....GO Browns!!!

I'll bet you, and anyone that thinks like you, that she specifically says her decision and judgment on this case has nothing to do with previous cases concerning owners.

Given that she is new to the process and was selected to start a new process it would not make sense for her to be tied by earlier punishments prior to be honest.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 08/01/22 02:17 AM
Milk, I'm not seeing anything.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 08/01/22 02:20 AM
Glad it will finally end (hopefully). I’ll stick to the 6 game suspension prediction (I could see 4 or 8). Let’s hope for no appeal by the NFL
Posted By: Pdawg Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 08/01/22 02:37 AM
Originally Posted by Rishuz
Milk, I'm not seeing anything.

Mill's tweet
Posted By: SaintDawg Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 08/01/22 03:28 AM
Hopefully this will prove to be the end of the matter. Personally I'd be ok with Watson getting hit by a bus and we play Brissett and Rosen and study the draft for the next QB
Posted By: Halfback32 Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 08/01/22 04:59 AM
As I recall, there was no rape, no assault, no groping. Inuendo, probably. Propositions, probably. So, basically a normal night out in the bars, otherwise at least misdemeanor assault could have been charged. and was not. So, the only difference from a night in a singles bar is the fact he was nude for a massage and was creating inuendo with and propositioning a massage therapist. Something I would wager happens with massage therapists all the time. The only difference in this case is the therapists saw an opportunity for personal gain due to the fact Watson was a millionaire athlete. Watson saw no reason to feed the beast. To me, Watson did nothing more, and probably a lot less than any other single 26-year-old heterosexual man in the US. The only reason he was singled out is he had money.

JMHO
Posted By: Pdawg Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 08/01/22 05:12 AM


Ari covers the NFL for @PFF
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 08/01/22 09:30 AM
Originally Posted by archbolddawg
That's neat and all, but just watch if it doesn't go the way the nflpa thinks it will....


LOL....we'll see. A statement like that seems to indicate the parties have some inside intel on the matter. We'll see if that info is correct. I can't imagine if he was to get a year they wouldn't backtrack on that one.

I'll be finishing up my travels to Venice, Fla when things are released, if they are released at 9AM. It will be interesting to get back on the board to see all the comments. I guess I will have to search around the XM radio to find a NFL talk program before I set out around 8:30 AM.

No matter the suspension, it will be good to know what's ahead so the coaches and players can set out a definitive plan.
Posted By: Floquinho Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 08/01/22 10:31 AM
Originally Posted by Pdawg


Ari covers the NFL for @PFF

This pathetic strategy Watson and his advisors had in the beginning to refuse to give these women any sort of recognition can’t be labeled as anything other then a fiasco.

120 days of wasted time because of our so called “adult leadership”.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 08/01/22 10:54 AM
In your opinion, which from my perspective doesn't seem to hold much weight.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 08/01/22 11:50 AM
88 is the Sirius channel for the NFL.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 08/01/22 11:52 AM
Thanks pdawg but I meant I wasn't seeing any prop bets out here on Watson's suspension.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 08/01/22 11:57 AM
Originally Posted by Rishuz
88 is the Sirius channel for the NFL.

Thanks...I knew it was in there somewhere in that area. I pretty much limit my listening to 3-4 music channels. One news channel just to stay informed on a long drive.
Posted By: DawgMichelle Re: Watson News 2: Electric Boogaloo - 08/01/22 12:23 PM
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
I think people have been very kind towards the women on this board.

Look around you...how many women have left these boards? How many are still here? Everyone has a different definition of "kind". What's yours?
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