that escalated quickly

Several others were canned as well.. Didn't catch the names.

In comes the next Freddy Kitchens to save the day and resurrect Baker's career.

I feel like I have seen this story before.

I just listened to 5 minutes of CLT sport talk radio as I ran to the store.

Many commentators and fans thought Rhule didn't deserve to still be employed before the season started. That noise got louder right from week 1.

What was a little concerning for me as a Browns fan - and what echoed some of the issues with Stefanski in CLE .... the radio commentator went on a diatribe about having listened for all of last season and this season about knowing what the problems are, knowing they need to be fixed, taking ownership in name only and no accountability and NOTHING CHANGED AND THE SAME ISSUES PERSISTED. Sadly that seems where we are in CLE at the moment. Lot's of TALK but nothing changes.

I think they’ll fire sale now. DJ Moore, CMC, maybe others

I don't know how good or bad Rhule was. I do know he was a very hot candidate due to him turning around two college programs around quickly. He got a huge contract. I also know who they gave him at QB.

Think about this list"

Teddy Bridgewater
Cam Newton---after he was beyond washed-up.
Sam Darnold
Baker Mayfield.

That's a list of suckiness.

Rhule had final say over the roster. He probably should have drafted a QB at some point (although weak classes). Rhule also had a hand in hiring his GM, Scott Fitterer.

Carolina still owes him $40M. He's probably doing back handsprings right now.

He'll be back in college football soon and will do well.

Well, we all know where poor Bryce Young will be headed now.

So, that makes 4 NFL head coaches that lost their job with Baker at the helm.

If I were a HC, I'd quit if the team brought in Baker. Of course, maybe it was Rhule who wanted Baker and that is why he was fired.

To be fair, Rhule was reportedly on the hot seat before Baker ever got there.

Yep another one bites the dust and Baker is happy to sink another.

I put a post on the Vers thread comparing brisset and baker by accident

asked the refs to move it here and they didn't

so I will respect them and not paste and copy it here

has anyone known of coaches being fired while not so good QB's are still on the team

example Josh Rosen

He has been awful, so he gets traded, no coach fired, if so Idk

Baker has been okay to awful and the HC gets fired

only in the WWE

I meant the NFL

I find that really, really hard to believe.

I responded to you and posted my thoughts. You took issue w/my last sentence. For the record, I was not talking about you. I was referring to all the guys who attack those who don't think Baker is good. I have never seen you do that. Not sure if you care or not, but I thought I'd clarify that.

I did know that

I just wanted good football talk

Head coaches generally get fired because they're terrible coaches... Rhule is the poster boy. He lost 12 of his last 14 last year. Fans can't stand him, plenty of rumors that players don't like him. It's obvious that great QB play can make a coach look better and terrible QB play can make a coach look worse, but blaming a coach firing on a QB is pretty silly.

Thank you !

But how does one QB having survived 4 firings

still play ?

Well, 1 was Hue. 1 was Freddie, and Carolina's coach now, and he's been not what they thought. I don't remember the other coach though.

Gregg Williams

As far as Baker goes?

He started with the worst coach in NFL history -- Hue Jackson.

I guess you're counting Greg Williams... who was an interim coach and fired after the team chose Kitchens. Greg has been fired or walked from NINE NFL teams.

Kitchens was (per John Dorsey) the unanimous choice for coach... people like to act like Baker hired him... shame on him for endorsing him, I guess.

Matt Rhule is straight trash at the NFL level.


So have have:

Hue Jackson
Greg Williams
Freddie Kitchens
Matt Rhule

Maybe you're asking the wrong question, bro?! I guess if any of them go on to have a successful carreer as a head coach in the NFL, the question may become a reasonable one... I can promise you that won't happen though.

Don't worry buddy, you'll never be an HC.

I agree, only Vers would come up with such garbage. Again, the talk should be about what the heck are the Browns going to do to right the ship but instead, we get some BS post about an ex player that, by the way, if not for a blown call on intentional grounding would have beat the Browns azz in the opener with half the talent the Browns have.

It was actually me who came up with this , I was just looking for some questions to be answered

Good point there Fate

Can I ask you something ?

Does that go for the QB involved ?

If Baker fails does that answer any of the what ifs ?

Again

Josh Rosen, he has been on how many teams and with how many coaches were fired ?

I'm asking , how is it a poorly playing QB that has had 5 coaches is stiil playing for the same team

when most poorly playing QB's have been booted for playing for four or five teams .

I bet he won't be a starter next year. The book is out. You might not have liked my last sentence on the other thread, but if the Baker fans are right w/all their excuses, why wasn't there even one freaking team who wanted Baker once he was available for a trade. Teams lined up for Watson and Houston had to trade him, so the "backed into the corner" argument is lame. Plus, Watson had legal issues.

Thank God our current FO was smart enough to realize that it wasn't the coaching that was the problem and correctly identified that they were not going to win it all w/Baker.

Baker was the first overall draft choice. He gets a longer leash. The Browns did not give him a new contract after his supposed "good" year. They recognized the team carried him. He's on his second team and the fans want him benched. I bet he won't be back there next year. I will also bet that he won't be a starter next year.

Willing to wait and see what happens

Not the Browns but the NFL in general that i'm tiring against

once or twice again

I am not trying to get you to see things my way, bro. You asked questions. I answered them honestly. I don't care if people agree w/me or not. That is not important. I'll give my opinions and I'm okay if no one agrees.

Baker I think is on borrowed time as far as his NFL life goes
His ego won't allow him to compete to be a BACKUP
No NFL team in its right mind will bring him
On to be starter. You can lump him with Tommy Maddox, Tim Tebow, Scott Mitchell
Among the QBs who got to the playoffs one year and faded

This is exactly what's going on in Cleveland. The difference is Rhule is a used car salesman and Stefanski isn't. But at the end of the day Stefanski isn't getting results and appears to have no clue how to fix it. And it's about to get real ugly. 2-8 is not out of the question. A better coach would have the Browns at 4-1 right now.

Stefanski is a below average head coach who has gotten below average results.

I wonder if I insult the posters who attacks our coach because I disagree w/their opinions if the refs will lock this thread? Probably not. Instead, I would be suspended. Funny how there are different rules for different posters on here. Guys like 888 called me a blanking [male body part that starts w/D] and doesn't get suspended. OCD suggests that I masturbate when talking about Baker and no suspension. I could go on and on and on.......Makes one wonder who the refs are. Is there a Ref 8 or Ref Fate?

Also, are you and 888 friends now? I remember him ripping you a new one last year when I was not posting and you questioned Baker.

Are you okay?

No one ever ripped me a new one. I said Baker sucked and mgh888, FATE, oober, WSU, and I'm sure I'm missing two or three others made it personal repeatedly. I never made it personal in return. Just kept stating my opinion and laughing at their posts. I thought it was mostly funny. They would get very emotional about it.

The thing is I don't care what other people think, and I'm not looking for alliances for my opinions. I state what I think regardless of what other people think. If I am in agreement with someone who has made it personal with me in the past, I simply don't care. My opinion doesn't change based who might share it.

But here's the thing. I'm usually right. I was right on Baker, and I am right on Stefanski. However,.I hope Stefanski can get it figured out. We are about to be 2-8. It's going to take a tremendous amount of patience to stick with him, but as bad as he is I think we have to stick it out with him. If he gets a stay of execution he will have to be forced to make a change at DC if he won't do it himself.

Well, making it personal is ripping you. LOL

I read the posts. You named most of them. They are who they are.

We totally disagree about Stefanski. That's okay. I was a coach, though. I do know the game. I see it differently than most fans. Some people like to learn. Some others can't accept being wrong. For example, on the baseball thread, I ask questions of those who know more than me. I like to learn. It's not about ego. It's about knowledge.

You said Baker sucked and I made it personal?

You don't think laughing at posters and saying their takes are emotional when they disagree with you is personal? Hmmm. You have said you have this persona of posting what you want, not caring what others think and not wanting to stop posting about ex-players because you find the reaction you get is too funny - and you don't think that's personal? I'd be interested to know exactly what you think it was I posted that was more personal... I simply respond to others the way they project themselves. So I'd assume I was blunt and didn't give a crap about whether you liked my opinion or not - and if you looked like you were mocking me I'm sure I would have mocked you right back .... but now your take is that you kept to facts, "we" got personal and emotional. Sure!

Deisle - I tried to respond to your Q on the other thread that got locked., it was while I was writing.

In answer to your question about Baker and what he owns thru 3 or 4 HC's who subsequently lost jobs or in Williams case didn't keep his Job .... in comparison to Josh Rosen and other bad QBs. I think part of the answer is pretty simple - Josh Rosen never had a season like Baker's rookie year - Rosen never had a stretch of half a season where he was playing at a very high level. Baker has. So when we've seen Baker play abysmally, there's always that potential that something better is there. I can't tell you if that's still the case based on how horrible he's been in Charlotte because he's playing worse than ever in 2022.

As for the HC's:
- Hue was 1-31 before Baker arrived and was a terrible HC no matter his prior history. No coincidence that he was fired and the team (under Baker) went on a tear.
- Greg Williams got the results - he wasn't retained because of Bounty Gate and the stigma he carried. As an interim he fully earned the opportunity and his not getting the gig was nothing to do with Baker.
- Freddie Kitchens - who some want to try and act as if Baker appointed - was appointed by John Dorsey. The most plausible reports were that Dorsey wanted a coach he could control in place. Freddie was worse than Hue in every aspect of being a HC. The team was under prepared, ran plays they didn't practice and in addition Baker was really bad that year.
- Stefanski changed Bakers mechanics, and after a rocky start KS had Baker playing the best he's ever played before injury and a woeful 2021 which led to them parting ways. But it was Baker that left not the HC.

- Rhule (the main subject of this thread) was under pressure all last season and many fans wanted him fired last season or in the off season. His rap has been to get pass happy and not use McCaffrey his best player. Despite not calling plays this year, McCaffrey ran the ball 10 times int he first game of the season and despite the game being close, the fans that wanted him gone last year were already ansi this year. If Baker had been elite and the Panthers were 4-1 instead of 1-4 maybe Rhule would have a job, but he did most of the prep work to be fired prior to Baker arriving. They were 2-14 their last 16 games last season, 1-4 this season and Rhule (who controls the roster) trotted out Bridgewater, and Ancient Cam, Sam Darnold and now a really bad Baker as QB.

So based on that I'd say each HC didn't keep their job based on their own issues in addition to BM being bad. Baker was good for Greg W - but he didn't keep the position because of other issues.

That is a very good post, Thank you for a great input !

In other words, bad QB’s create bad coaches. Besides Williams short tenure, every team these coaches coached for had bad QB’s before Mayfield.

It's football talk 888. Haven't you been paying attention?

IMHO, another point of contention is that poor teams, those that eventually lose their HC's, deal with the constant barrage of drafting skill players while ignoring the line. The Browns became contenders when they finally fixed the offensive line. Case in point, in Mayfield's rookie year 2018, where he broke Mannings rookie record, the Browns offensive line finished ranked 2nd in the NFL. In year two 2019, the O-line regressed to a rank of 23rd and Mayfield's performance and the teams won/loss record reflected that regression. In 2020, the Browns O-line rebounded all the way to the number 1 ranking as did Mayfield's performance as the Browns qualified for the playoffs and went 1-1. In 2021, the O-line finished ranked #8 in the NFL, but Mayfield played the majority of the season injured and the record reflected that the injury reflected poor results. In 2022, the Browns entered the season with the preseason ranked #2 offensive line. Through 4-weeks, the Browns O-line is ranked #3 but the O-line is not the problem with the Browns 2-3 start.

Defensively, the Browns had high hopes on defense in 2022 with eyes set on a top 5 ranking. After 5-weeks, the Browns defense is ranked 24th in the Power Rankings. According to Ken Blaze, USA Today Sports: "Things look bleak for the Cleveland Browns. Sitting at 2-3 on the season, things are going to get much worse before there is even a shot at it getting better. By the time Deshaun Watson returns to action on Dec. 4, there’s a distinct possibility Cleveland is 3-8 and it won’t even have its own first-round pick. No, in case you were wondering, Deion Jones isn’t fixing this defense."

Back to Rhule being fired. There's no question that the strength of the Panthers in 2022 was going to be their defense. Through 5-weeks though, the Panthers defense is sporting a #30 power ranking. This poor showing by the Panthers defense has put additional pressure on an offense that was expected to struggle because of the poor offensive line. After finishing 22nd in offensive line ranking in 2021, the Panthers have followed it up with a 27th ranking through 5-weeks in 2022. To make matters worse, the Panthers are rated 31st in offensive EPA through the first 5-weeks. Defensively the Panthers are rated 20th. In any case, there's way way more issues with the Panthers than just Mayfield and the firing of Rhule reflects these issues.
https://www.nfeloapp.com/analysis/expected-points-added-epa-nfl/
Just an FYI - through 5-weeks, the Browns offense is ranked 3rd and the defense is ranked 30th. This explains a a lot about the Browns 2-3 record.

One final note of the offensive line importance, Super Bowl Champions the LARams had the #7 ranked offensive line. Through the first 5-games of 2022, the LARams offensive line is ranked 23rd which is its worst ranking since 2019. Having an elite QB doesn't mean a thing if the line can't protect him or open the holes for running. Line play is critical to the vast majority of NFL QB's - that's just the facts.

This is an organization that is clearly panicking. I'm glad we have more rational folks running things in Cleveland.

I don't think they are panicking. They are still cleaning house from the Rhule regime.

LMAO, Cleveland's FO is calmly handling this crap show. On any given Sunday, you never know what you'll get. Stellar to peewee play. At this point, I wouldn't claim bragging rights. That's not to say we don't end up there. There is a fair chance we do.