Sean McVay: Rams haven't made last offer to Odell Beckham Jr.
5:23 PM ET Sarah Barshop ESPN Staff Writer
THOUSAND OAKS, Calif. -- After wide receiver Odell Beckham Jr. tweeted Wednesday that the contract offer the Los Angeles Rams made to him wasn't reflective of his worth, coach Sean McVay indicated he didn't think that would be the team's final offer.
"LA knows where I wanted to be," Beckham tweeted. "... but they didn't offer me.... ANYthing! So idk what people want me to do, I def kno my worth and what the offer was isn't reflective of that. So it's tough to say that I can come on back even tho I thought I finally found that home !"
Beckham signed with the Rams in November after he was released by the Cleveland Browns. During the postseason, Beckham had 21 catches for 288 yards and two touchdowns before tearing his left ACL during Super Bowl LVI.
"I love Odell," McVay said. "We have constant dialogue. He also knows that certainly I don't think that's the last [offer] that would come from us. I'm not familiar with what it is. He knows how we feel about him. We've got a little bit of time.
"But [I] love Odell. Nothing but good things coming from me."
The Rams still have a nameplate in the locker room of their practice facility for Beckham. The Rams have not been quiet about their desire for Beckham's return. In September, during a news conference, cornerback Jalen Ramsey brought up the receiver in one of his answers and then paused to say, "Odell, come back."
"LA knows where I wanted to be," Beckham tweeted. "... but they didn't offer me.... ANYthing! So idk what people want me to do, I def kno my worth and what the offer was isn't reflective of that. So it's tough to say that I can come on back even tho I thought I finally found that home !"
The Rams still have a nameplate in the locker room of their practice facility for Beckham. The Rams have not been quiet about their desire for Beckham's return.
I still have no idea how a UFA that isn't on their roster is their problem.
Because they want him to be, but they are having a problem getting him back on the roster.
He is whining and tossing them under the bus because they didn't respect him enough (offer enough money).
Does that help clear it up for you?
Well what is said in the media by GM's and HC's is not always fact is it.... The Browns wanted Landry back right? They siad publicly that wanted another player to be their guy. I'm sure there are dozens of examples of players from many teams where one thing was said, but actions and offers proved otherwise. I don't think OBJ is a distraction for them at all, or a problem. Let the dust settle and then see what happens.
No because no matter how hard you try to make it an issue, it isn't one. Just because some writers pick up on something a UFA says doesn't make it a problem. OBJ won't even be able to play until December. As of now it's a non issue. Here's a guy whining about what's going on two months before he can even play. That's not a story worth writing, reading or giving any importance to.
No because no matter how hard you try to make it an issue, it isn't one. Just because some writers pick up on something a UFA says doesn't make it a problem. OBJ won't even be able to play until December. As of now it's a non issue. Here's a guy whining about what's going on two months before he can even play. That's not a story worth writing, reading or giving any importance to.
So you speak for both the Rams and OBJ.
How do you find the time to dazzle us here as well?
You made up some concocted answer. Or are you saying other teams don't have players out in the FA market they would like to sign? He can't even play for two months and isn't on their roster so he's not "their problem". Just because some diva WR says something on social media or shoots his mouth off to some reporter it doesn't make that a problem.
You made up some concocted answer. Or are you saying other teams don't have players out in the FA market they would like to sign? He can't even play for two months and isn't on their roster so he's not "their problem". Just because some diva WR says something on social media or shoots his mouth off to some reporter it doesn't make that a problem.
He's got a different look now, but the guy is in love w/himself. I personally can't stand the guy. Reports of him having an office instead of being w/his team in the locker room tell a lot about the guy. So glad he did not end up here.
I am hoping someone wants to trade for D'Ernie. I would like to get something, and I kept him in a keeper fantasy league hoping he would get traded and go on to be a key player for another team.
Getting McCaffrey is a good move for SF. This will enable them to stop using Debo in the backfield, which is something he wasn't keen on anyway. It also gives their QB another guy to dump the ball off who can take a short pass and turn it into a huge play. It's going to be hard for defenses to account for both McCaffrey and Debo. Their defense is banged up right now, but it is one of he very best units in the league when healthy.
I am hoping someone wants to trade for D'Ernie. I would like to get something, and I kept him in a keeper fantasy league hoping he would get traded and go on to be a key player for another team.
I don't think a team will give up anything for Johnson, but the Browns should be on the horn with Rams to try and send them Hunt. He's gone after this year. Might as well get something in return in a season that is headed down the tubes anyway.
I don't think a team will give up anything for Johnson, but the Browns should be on the horn with Rams to try and send them Hunt. He's gone after this year. Might as well get something in return in a season that is headed down the tubes anyway.
Agree with your thoughts on Johnson's value, which is a shame because after last season he might've gotten us something in a trade - especially since we knew Ford was his replacement. Frustrating. He's a good back and a serviceable returner.
As far as Hunt goes......I'm not sure we should be looking to shed ourselves of one of our biggest offensive weapons at this point (even though it seems we don't use him properly some of the time). The Browns need talented playmakers who are difference makers on both sides of the ball. I'd like to see Hunt here until the end of the season - I'm thinking we're going to need to put up a lot of points on the board to keep up with any team let alone win games. Hunt, if used properly and consistently as a receiver as well, can only help us in that regard.
With the first pick of the 2023 NFL Draft, the Carolina Panthers select Bryce Young QB Alabama.
Though that would be the thought process of most fans, drafting Young before they fix the offensive line is like just flushing money down the toilet. I don't care how good he's projected to be, with Carolina's line he will fail - guaranteed. Keep in mind, he's never played behind a line that couldn't protect him. Why people believe QB's can change their fortunes without addressing the line first is just mind boggling to me. The Panthers selecting Young without a total overhaul of that o-line (except for the rookie OT) is a recipe for failure for Young or any QB they draft.
I hope Berry decides to upgrade the DT at some point before next year begins. They are absolutely killing us. I am not in the crowd that is trashing our coach and FO unfairly, but our DTs are so freaking bad. It amazes me how often they are easily blocked and huge holes are being opened.
I hope Berry decides to upgrade the DT at some point before next year begins. They are absolutely killing us. I am not in the crowd that is trashing our coach and FO unfairly, but our DTs are so freaking bad. It amazes me how often they are easily blocked and huge holes are being opened.
The weakness of that position I feel has played a role in Walker and Phillips injuries. Need a big time run stuffer. Someone to take up blockers so backers can run free to the ball.
Amazing how all these teams are making deals and the Browns are just sitting on the sideline.
Just because you don't see a deal doesn't mean there isn't activity.
Didn't say there wasn't activity. What I said is other teams are making deals while the Browns (it's not like they don't have needs) are sitting on the sidelines. Or maybe I'm just wrong and being 29th in run defense the last 3-weeks is acceptable to Stefanski and Berry.
Amazing how all these teams are making deals and the Browns are just sitting on the sideline.
Just because you don't see a deal doesn't mean there isn't activity.
Didn't say there wasn't activity. What I said is other teams are making deals while the Browns (it's not like they don't have needs) are sitting on the sidelines. Or maybe I'm just wrong and being 29th in run defense the last 3-weeks is acceptable to Stefanski and Berry.
A lot of teams are already winning. Even some who weren't expected to win because ...gulp ... they are out coaching, out scheming, out playing their opponents.
This isn't rocket science. Your eyes aren't fooling you. Stefanski has done really nice job with the offense. But if you are telling me he's doing a really nice job as a head coach, then you're having the wool pulled over your eyes. The Browns have one of the worst records in the entire league with a roster full of really talented players. And get this, they've played one of the easiest schedules to date.
How that equates to being a good head coach I'm still trying to figure out.
Okay, I want to clear this up because some folks are lying about how I feel about the responsibilities of the HC. Not you, but others have. Perhaps you believe their BS? I don't know.
Of course, Stefanski is responsible for all the other coaches and units of the team. I even answered your question about that in the Post Game thread a few weeks ago. I have argued w/mac that Stefanski should not take over the defense. I don't want him calling the defensive signals. No sane person would.
If other units are not performing as well as they should due to his coordinators and/or assistant coaches, he absolutely must address it. I am of the opinion that timing matters. I think firing one of the coordinators during this season would be dumb. If one or both need to go, Stefanski should make the change after the season because the bank of replacement coaches will be much larger. That is just my opinion and I could be wrong about when to fire assistants. Despite what some are saying.......this team has not quit. Not even close.
So yes, Stefanski is definitely responsible for the other coaches and their respective units. I just think that those decisions should be made at the appropriate time. Also, I don't know if you noticed this or not...........but Stefanski was standing right behind/beside Woods late in the Baltimore game and talking to him. He was almost certainly being hands-on and offering his assistance/guidance. Reports have surfaced that he is doing similar things in practice.
I understand you hate Stefanski and that won't change, but I'll gladly debate w/you about what we see..........as long as it remains friendly and respectful and you don't resort to the dirty tactics. of the F.B.B.
I hope Berry decides to upgrade the DT at some point before next year begins. They are absolutely killing us. I am not in the crowd that is trashing our coach and FO unfairly, but our DTs are so freaking bad. It amazes me how often they are easily blocked and huge holes are being opened.
vers...how did the Browns end up with such poor DTs..?
Three of the four DTs are Berry's picks..Elliott, a 3rd round pick in 2020...Togiai, a 4th round pick in 2021...and Winfrey, a 4th rounder in 2022. Free Agent Bryan added this year...All weighing in a 290 lbs with Elliott weighing in at 303.
Just what criteria is Berry using to pick the Browns DTs..?
I hope Berry decides to upgrade the DT at some point before next year begins. They are absolutely killing us. I am not in the crowd that is trashing our coach and FO unfairly, but our DTs are so freaking bad. It amazes me how often they are easily blocked and huge holes are being opened.
vers...how did the Browns end up with such poor DTs..?
Three of the four DTs are Berry's picks..Elliott, a 3rd round pick in 2020...Togiai, a 4th round pick in 2021...and Winfrey, a 4th rounder in 2022. Free Agent Bryan added this year...All weighing in a 290 lbs with Elliott weighing in at 303.
Just what criteria is Berry using to pick the Browns DTs..?
It went wrong because he's a head case and very immature... at least that's what Steelers fans tend to say. The overwhelming sentiment in Steelers land is "good riddance".
I wouldn't have thought Claypool would fetch that much.
What the heck happened to Claypool in Pittsburgh? Looked like he was destined to be their next great receiver. Where did it go south?
Claypool has been kind of a jerk who has ran his mouth too much. Also, they just gave Johnson a ton of money and really like Pickens, the rookie from Georgia.
For a team in dire need of quality WR's, this one is a head scratcher that the Browns were not all in on this one. I know he's suspended for the year and quit on the team last year, but we just signed a QB that quit on his team and is on suspension, so you'd think that integrity or commitment isn't an issue for a Browns player.
Dan Snyder - worst owner in the NFL, maybe all sports - bought out all his co-owners, is now cash poor, may be finally selling the franchise. He's a terrible owner, has had multiple investigations conducted into his ownership and management ... and looks like this is the beginning of the end. Dude makes Haslam look like Mr All World Owner.
Thanks. I just came back to say I just read a post by Vers about selling the team and having BOA in place to broker the deal. I knew enough about it to know about investigations and such. I didn't know about the new steps taken.
Pulling from the OL thread since it's actually remaining on topic...
Originally Posted by Bard Dawg
I am thinking we need to address Ward. Part-timer. Seems indifferent at times. Just failing at being a shut down corner even when healthy. We are paying a premium for pine surfing. He needs to ramp it up after protocol if he is staying. We are always looking for CB help. .02
I don't want to be "that guy", not questioning a player's commitment, more or less just measuring out a little human nature.
You were well-paid to play a game.
Your new contract will allow to buy planes, islands, and is true generational wealth.
You have another concussion, maybe worse than the first two. What good is wealth if you have no health?
Denzel is a smart dude. He's not ready to quit now, but I don't think he's good for more than two more concussions. I would trade him now, while the value is it's highest, otherwise we'll be caught holding the cards when it goes south.
As much as I hate to say it because I do not like the outcome in your scenario, I think you're right. I'm not sure his value is currently "at its highest" but it's as high as I think it will get from this point moving forward and the longer they put off what you're suggesting the less value he will have.
Denzel Ward is untradable. Not there is a chance it's something Berry is even considering.
If Ward were to be traded in the offseason here are the following consequences of doing so:
For the 2023 season: Pre-6/1 Trade - a dead cap hit of $34.4M and an actual cap savings loss of $22.079M. This would be a fireable offense if Berry mismanaged the cap and went this route.
A Post-6/1 Trade - a dead cap hit in 2023 of $7.68M, a dead cap hit in 2024 of $26.72M and cap savings of only $4.641M.
The numbers are somewhat similar if traded after the 2024 season.
The only time it makes sense financially to trade him is after the 2025 season. Otherwise, the Browns would have a pile of money tied up in dead cap space.
A trade would indicate that the team who trades for him would be picking up a large part of his existing contract which would negate much of that money. The amounts you posted would only apply if he were cut.
I see nothing in the link that indicates such. If a player has a guaranteed contract, the team you trade with picks up part of that salary guarantee. If the deal doesn't require them to pay all of that guaranteed money, the team trading him pays the remaining balance. I've never seen it work any other way before.
So are you trying to say the Browns would be on the hook for the fully guaranteed portion of his contract and what the team he was traded to just pays him extra money above and beyond the contract he is currently playing under? Because that sounds ridiculous.
Denzel Ward is worried about his health because of all the concussions. He gets one every year and we all know the long-term ramifications of them. I don't blame him.
A trade would indicate that the team who trades for him would be picking up a large part of his existing contract which would negate much of that money. The amounts you posted would only apply if he were cut.
Not true Pit, the trading team takes on the remaining base salary but the prorated bonus (already paid) which was spread out over a number of years will always go against the Browns cap. For Ward, that's 7.68M each of the next 4 years and 3.68M the 5th year. That's the problem with moving base salary to a prorated bonus - that bonus gets paid immediately but its cap charge gets spread out x number of years that will always go against the teams cap. Just an FYI:
Garrett: 11.926M prorated bonus in 23 & 24, 7.726M in 25, and 3.953M in 26 all in addition to his base salary Watson: 8.993M for each of the next 4-years Chubb: 4M each of the next 2 years Bitonio: 3.6M each of the next 4-years and 1.5M in a void year 5 (not under contract) Cooper: 3.76M each of the next 4 years with 2 of those years being void years (not under contract) Clowney: 1.6M each of the next 4 years which are all void years (not under contract) Walker: $593,0000 each of the next 4 years all void years (not under contract)
These are just a few of the prorated bonuses that go against the cap in addition to their base salary. An example is Watson's base for 2023 is 46M plus his prorated bonus (already paid) which has to be added at 8.993M making a total cap charge for 2023 of 54.993M. Garrett's base for 2023 is 17.25M plus the prorated bonus charge of 11.926M making his 2023 cap charge 29.176M.
Eagles are taking their shot. I don't blame them. It is hard to make a Super Bowl. It's even harder to get back to one. Got to strike when the iron is hot.
I'm not saying it's a reasonable excuse. Just seems like we've been sitting on our hands all season, doing a little bargain shopping here and there... and just waiting. I'm sure that's more the fan in me knowing that the season would end in disappointment.
Free-agent DT Ndamukong Suh reached agreement on a one-year deal with the Philadelphia Eagles, per sources. Eagles now have landed Linval Joseph and Suh on back-to-back days.
Both players were available and the Browns could have signed them if WINNING was the #1 priority of the Browns franchise.
Joseph and Suh are 34 and 35 years old, not the type of players we're going to go after on one year deals. Maybe if our record was reversed with Watson in the wings.
Joseph and Suh are 34 and 35 years old, not the type of players we're going to go after on one year deals. Maybe if our record was reversed with Watson in the wings.
The problem is the Browns never actually sign players to 1-year deals. They call it that but put the money in a bonus and spread it out over 3-5 years, so they hit the cap years after they are gone. Examples: Conklin is a FA and if he leaves the Browns still have him on the book's in 2023 & 2024 for 3M each year. Clowney is a FA at seasons end but will be on the books in 2023, 24, 25, & 26 for 1.6M each year. Cooper's base salary jumps to 20M each of the next 2-years but he's on the books for bonus cap charges the next 4-years at 3.776M per year. Finally, Garrett's base salary for 2023 is right now 17.25M but his prorated bonus charge is 11.926M making his cap charge in 2023 at 29.176M due to moving base salary to prorated bonuses.
I get we are not going to the playoffs, but to see Suh go to Philly today irritate me. He's been on social media most of the year talking about how he would be a great match w/the Browns.Perhaps things would be different if we had signed him earlier in the year when it was apparent to everyone that our DTs sucked a$$.
I get we are not going to the playoffs, but to see Suh go to Philly today irritate me. He's been on social media most of the year talking about how he would be a great match w/the Browns.Perhaps things would be different if we had signed him earlier in the year when it was apparent to everyone that our DTs sucked a$$.
vers...Yea vers, it pisses me off too, as we watch the Browns GM and front office continue to search the waiver wire for "cheap options" as the defense sinks further each week. Folks need to understand that the Browns front office and GM knew coming into the season that they had a problem at DT as this article from earlier in the season points out...
The Browns Need Defensive Tackle Help, What are Their Options? ByANDREW SPAYDE Oct 11, 12:34 PM link
Berry, Stefanski, and Woods share responsibility for not making a proper assessment of the depth chart at DT when 2021 ended.
They put underserved faith in Elliott and then free agent Bryan. Their thinking was Togiai and then draft pick Winfrey would be guys worth developing. They would be used in rotation and gain experience. The problem is both Elliott and Bryan are not good players. Winfrey can not pay attention. Togiai will never develop.
In addition the attitude must have been that DT is a position where you can by on lesser talent.
You can not have lesser talent at DT when the base defense is 4-2-5. If a linebacker is going to be sacrificed to put more coverage guys in position.
Then it is imperative that the DT position holds gap integrity on both sides of the center.
There is blame to go around. Perhaps this attitude about the DT position will change.
IMO position value is part of prioritising investment. However, I believe in 'Unit evaluation."
Because the positions compliment each other. If you have a guy like Myles and next to him you have a dud. You nullify the strength of the DE.
I mentioned that earlier. I checked the participation record because I thought maybe he was involved with the collision with Newsome. I'm pretty sure Winfrey practiced Wednesday and sustained the injury then.
They listed Perrion Winfrey and under injury "head" then DNP all week.
Because they cannot say "head case" on an official injury report.
memp...you can expect a response from the Browns that put the total blame on Winfrey while no one from the analytics crew admits that they "MISJUDGED" Winfrey as a person and as a potential "professional football player". Just another wasted draft pick for the Cleveland Browns...and our analytics department hands out the excuse....but drafting Winfrey is what "the data" told us to do..?
And that is nothing but a "CANNED EXCUSE" that the analytics crew uses far too often.
You cannot draft a player based on a 40 yd time and a SPARQ score. You need scouts who are willing to spend the time to get to know the person...know what motivates them. You have to have experienced scouts who have a history of judging football talent. Depodesta fired all of those kind of scouts, preferring to replace them with analytics types who have little or no experience in the game of football...BUT they know how to compose and read a graph based on SPARQ scores.
HOW DO YOU MEASURE WHAT IS IN A PLAYERS HEART..?
HOW DO THE ANALYTICS PROFESSIONALS MEASURE A PLAYER'S "DESIRE" TO WIN OR SUCCEED...?
You might want to tell these guys they are not scouts, and they don't evaluate talent because they sure do a lot of work for nothing then
Pro Scouting
Adam Al-Khayyal Director, Pro Scouting Sam DeLuca Assistant Director of Pro Scouting Branden Francis Pro Scout
College Scouting
Max Paulus Director, College Scouting Zach Ayers National Scout Chris Buford National Scout Josh Cox Area Scout Matt Donahoe Area Scout Gerald McCully Area Scout Kathleen Wood Area Scout Dan Zegers Area Scout Joe Dever Area Scout Shawn Heinlen Area Scout
You might want to tell these guys they are not scouts, and they don't evaluate talent because they sure do a lot of work for nothing then
GM...you definitely show confidence in the scouting department based on what they are producing. These guys are "top shelf" with a lengthy resumes based on their football experience in HS, College and at the NFL level. Those are the type of people we need judging talent...experienced scouts with a background based on their own football experience at all levels of the game.
GM...tell everyone about 'the top Pro Scout' in charge of the Browns scouting department, Adam Al-Khayyal Director, Pro Scouting...
GM, fill everyone in on "Adam Al-Khayyal's Biography"...that should instill confidence in the Browns scouting department. Help us out, GM.
I would play Winfrey. I don't know what he did or what the problem is but playing him putting him on the line might straighten him out. Heck, with the way our DT's have been playing it can't hurt.
You might want to tell these guys they are not scouts, and they don't evaluate talent because they sure do a lot of work for nothing then
GM...you definitely show confidence in the scouting department based on what they are producing. These guys are "top shelf" with a lengthy resumes based on their football experience in HS, College and at the NFL level. Those are the type of people we need judging talent...experienced scouts with a background based on their own football experience at all levels of the game.
GM...tell everyone about 'the top Pro Scout' in charge of the Browns scouting department, Adam Al-Khayyal Director, Pro Scouting...
GM, fill everyone in on "Adam Al-Khayyal's Biography"...that should instill confidence in the Browns scouting department. Help us out, GM.
What part do you want to know Mac? That he played High School football That he played in college for Princeton? Maybe it means something that his dad is a professor, or his mom is a lawyer? Do you need any info on his sister? Maybe a little of his History with the Browns?
Football Administration and Player Personnel Aug 2015 - Jun 2017
College Scout Jun 2017 - May 2020
Assistant Director, Pro Personnel May 2020 - Jun 2022
Director, Pro Scouting Jun 2022 - Present
But you see you don't really want to know anything. You just want to hear Adam was bitten buy the evil vampire leader named Depo. He was infected by his analytics, and is under his full analytics trance and must follow his masters evil thoughts and be subject to his mind control. I mean that makes as much sense as the Fairy tales you keep spouting off about.
Perrion Winfrey pregame tweet: 'One of the worst years of my life' + posted by JaredMueller on Nov 20, 2022 twitter.com Once again inactive in Week 11, Cleveland Browns rookie DT Perrion Winfrey posted, shortly before the game, that this year has been difficult. His first year in the NFL hasn't been what many hoped it would be.
Perrion Winfrey pregame tweet: 'One of the worst years of my life' + posted by JaredMueller on Nov 20, 2022 twitter.com Once again inactive in Week 11, Cleveland Browns rookie DT Perrion Winfrey posted, shortly before the game, that this year has been difficult. His first year in the NFL hasn't been what many hoped it would be.
If this team had a thimble-full of leadership, they'd get this kid straight.
Perrion Winfrey pregame tweet: 'One of the worst years of my life' + posted by JaredMueller on Nov 20, 2022 twitter.com Once again inactive in Week 11, Cleveland Browns rookie DT Perrion Winfrey posted, shortly before the game, that this year has been difficult. His first year in the NFL hasn't been what many hoped it would be.
If this team had a thimble-full of leadership, they'd get this kid straight.
This is pretty much where this team and organization is at.
But not the guy who signed a four year contract extension then a little over two months later refused to play for that team and demanded a trade, right?
The Jets caught lightning in a bottle after beating the Browns and are riding a wave of confidence and momentum. Their QB is terrible and their coaching staff is awful. They'll be the talk of the off season because they had an unexpected season this year then fall on their faces next year. We know teams like that well. We root for one.
Jets are loaded w/talent. They are a qb away from being excellent.
I follow the Jets closely and have done so for the past three or four years. I agree they've added talent, but they aren't more talented than the Browns. As a matter of fact the Browns pushed them around all game until the last 1:30. Yet one sits at 6-4 and one sits at 3-7. The Jets didn't have a single player in the top 100 although certainly Gardner and Garrett will be there next year. I don't believe in Douglas or Saleh after watching them the last couple of years.
I mean this is all just opinion. I could be wrong. You could be right. They just seem like the epitome of a team that's caught a little lightning in a bottle and will revert back to their mean. They are definitely in need of a QB. Wilson is very bad.
I agree that we just have a difference of opinion. I wasn't saying you were wrong.
Hall is the real deal at RB. He will be back next year. They have a plethora of very good WRs and Wilson is going to be star if they find someone to throw him the ball. They have two good TEs. OL is not so great.
Defensively, they are loaded. That DL is excellent. They generate a lot of pressure. Like you said, Gardner is a star at corner. Their secondary is good overall. Mosley and Alexander are excellent LBers.
I think Douglas has been killing the drafts. Look at their draft class this year. Gardner, Garrett Wilson, and Hall just to start off with. That's freaking incredible. Saleh? I was down on him last year, but he seems to be galvanizing the team this year. I will say it's a gutsy move to bench Zach Wilson. Wasn't he the 2nd overall choice just a year ago?
Chiefs Sign Notable Pro Bowl Defensive Tackle Story by Daniel Bates • 2h ago
The Chiefs are reportedly adding some reinforcements to their already stout defensive line.
According to ESPN's Adam Schefter, "Longtime former Ravens’ DT Brandon Williams, who had been waiting for the right opportunity like Linval Joseph and Ndamukong Suh, is signing with the Chiefs practice squad with the idea of going to the active roster, per sources."
Schefter added, "Williams reunites with Chiefs DL coach Joe Cullen."
Standing 6-foot-1, 336-pounds, Williams has made a living as a run-stuffing nose guard and tackle for nine seasons. A Pro Bowler in 2018, the former Raven has been as solid as they come on the interior defensive line.
He should pair well with the dominant Chris Jones in the Chiefs front seven, as Kansas City looks to take a further stranglehold on the AFC.
If active for this week's game, Williams will return against Joe Burrow and the Bengals. But with several games to go, he could use some time to get back into football shape before the Chiefs' playoff run.
Funny how some franchises are committing to winning this YEAR yet the Browns mantra has always been WAIT TILL NEXT YEAR. Philly, KC, Baltimore , San Francisco, all made moves player To attempt to reach the SB THIS YEAR. Meanwhile Andrew Berry remains steadfast in not improving the Roster this year as Browns wait till next year
I'd say signing Watson and moving on from a popular qb proves that they are committed to winning. No sense signing FA guys to one-yer contracts this year once they knew Watson was going to miss 11 games.
I'd say signing Watson and moving on from a popular qb proves that they are committed to winning. No sense signing FA guys to one-yer contracts this year once they knew Watson was going to miss 11 games.
Yeah but 4 7 your still in the conversation for the playoffs Signing a big bodied run stuffer or even a WR with quicks Could have helped this team to make a late season playoff push
I see Vers point but I really believe if we had signed 2 of those DT's when it was obvious that stopping the run was a blatant weakness our record would be 2 or3 games better. I don't have a crystal ball but we would have won a couple of those close games and been right in the thick of the AFC North race. JMO
I'd say signing Watson and moving on from a popular qb proves that they are committed to winning. No sense signing FA guys to one-yer contracts this year once they knew Watson was going to miss 11 games.
If the Browns front office boys had done a better job at adding the needed talent they failed to add during the past drafts, this team would be knocking at the playoffs today. Let's add the fact that the Browns coaching staff has been subpar at times, helping to contribute to these losses.
The Browns didn't need Watson to be a playoff caliber team...Brissett gave us a chance...but he could not overcome poor coaching and the failure of the front office to do their job, adding some help to the defensive side of the ball.
These were just the games the Browns should have won with Brissett at QB.
...1 pt loss to Jets ...3 pt loss to Falcons ...2 pt loss to Chargers ...3 pt loss to Ravens
Anyone suggesting that it's ok to the give the coaching staff and front office boys "a pass" for their contribution toward the losses listed above...it's not ok..!
If the Browns coaching staff and front office give less than a max effort to win every game, I can't forgive that. Maybe Myles Garrett was sending a message that struck a nerve in the front office and on the coaching staff when Garrett said...
..."We have to make sure that we don’t waste the talent that we have in its prime right now". It's not ok to waste a players prime years either by giving less than your best effort, whether it's the coaching staff, front office boys or the players.
I'd say signing Watson and moving on from a popular qb proves that they are committed to winning. No sense signing FA guys to one-yer contracts this year once they knew Watson was going to miss 11 games.
This statement would have to lead a person to believe that if true, the Browns never had any intention of putting a winning team on the field at any point in 2022 after August 18th. If that is the case, then Haslam needs to fire every damn one of them. Watson was suspended on August 18th for the 11-games. When do you think the FO decided to cash in this season by not signing any players for help this year? Certainly, it wouldn't have been before August 18th, would it? The post implies August 18th. Does this post imply that the Browns are incapable of a winning season unless Watson is playing? What kind of message, if true, does that send to the rest of the team?
I have to admit, I'm a very confused avid Browns fan when the self-proclaimed "Forum Football Geru" with all his experience and connections is telling me that the Browns HC/FO/Owner determined there was, and I quote: "No sense signing FA guys to one-yer contracts this year once they knew Watson was going to miss 11 games." Somebody please send Garrett, Chubb, and a few others a note asking about how this type of management decision makes them feel about a commitment to winning.
I think Vers is right. If they had gotten off to 5-1 start or something, and were just missing a guy like Suh, maybe they would have jumped. The players don't have the same mindset as the front office, and that is an okay thing. You want the players fighting until the last, but the front office, which wants to win, too, has to take a bigger picture approach.
Thanks. steve and some others are just here to fight.
For the record, I strongly advocated the Browns sign a DT or even two early on in the season. I also wanted us to keep Jarvis. If not him, go out and get another WR to help. I'm not giving the "boys" in the FO a pass. I just think that once the season went downhill and they knew Watson was out for 11 games, they decided to not sign one of these guys that have recently signed w/teams that fighting to improve their playoff chances. It's my opinion and I am not even saying I'm right. But, of course, steve can't accept that. Again, he is here to fight.
I forgot to add that my main point is that it sure seems to me that the organization wants to win because going so hard after Watson and dumping a terrible--but popular--qb tells me they really do care about winning. It might not have been for this year, but they want to win. I wasn't even arguing w/iluv. Just voicing an opinion that folks could consider.
I'd say signing Watson and moving on from a popular qb proves that they are committed to winning. No sense signing FA guys to one-yer contracts this year once they knew Watson was going to miss 11 games.
My humble apologies to the self-proclaimed "Football Geru." I hope you can understand my confusion when the highlighted part of your flawless opinion above clearly states that when the Browns knew Watson was going to miss 11 games which was announced by the league on August 18th. I couldn't read the unwritten part of your opinion where you say that you actually meant when the season was lost. You could clear up a lot of this misunderstanding by going on the record when you think the HC/FO decided to pack it in this year because the season was lost and not waste their time going after 1-year contract players that could have given the Browns a playoff opportunity. It would be interesting to see if Garrett, Chubb, Cooper and the others would agree with that supposed unwritten timeline of packing it in for the 2022 season. Just an avid fan wanting to know.
I think you should play every year to win. While I understand the FO has to strike a balance on spending and consistently have an eye toward the future, I don't believe the Browns FO found that balance. And neither did the coaching staff. And this is why the Browns have a consistent culture of losing. They don't prioritize winning. Too many excuses. Too much overthinking.
Imagine if Watson gets hurt early next season. Are we punting again and waiting until the following year? The NFL is the ultimate year to year league. Imagine if the Browns were 7-4 and Watson comes back, plays well, and the team gets into the playoffs...not only is it culture setting, anything can happen once you get into the dance. But the Browns blew that chance because the FO and coaching staff treat the team like one big science experiment. That's why the teams best player continuously speaks out. That's why the Browns are 4-7. The science experiment is more important than winning.
I hope you can understand my confusion when the highlighted part of your flawless opinion above clearly states that when the Browns knew Watson was going to miss 11 games which was announced by the league on August 18th.
However, before that date they knew he was going to miss multiple games. The number wasn't known but the betting odds were at least 6-8 games. Heck, maybe they were reading your commentary and believed he might be suspended the entire season or longer.
I hope you can understand my confusion when the highlighted part of your flawless opinion above clearly states that when the Browns knew Watson was going to miss 11 games which was announced by the league on August 18th.
However, before that date they knew he was going to miss multiple games. The number wasn't known but the betting odds were at least 6-8 games. Heck, maybe they were reading your commentary and believed he might be suspended the entire season or longer.
Originally Posted by WooferDawg
No aging veteran looking for a ring is going to join a sub 500 struggling team.
Delusional…. Just delusional…. Right up there with the Easter bunny and tooth fairy….
Sweet, so you're saying that the Browns HC/FO were so forward thinking that even before August 18th they had come to the conclusion that the player's they had on the roster were incapable of winning unless Watson was on the field, correct? Even if the suspension was believed to be more in line with many (not just mine ) commentaries, that the Browns made the decision to pack it in even earlier than thought? It clears up a lot of the mystery surrounding the team since it was common knowledge going back to the June camp to even the most modest fan that the Browns had exposed weaknesses at DT, WR, and LB. Thanks for clearing that up because it was confusing what you "Stefanski Sleuths" and Berry guys thought the team was doing all summer and the early season.
I'll have to agree with the point that "no aging veteran looking for a ring is going to join a sub .500 struggling team" now as being somewhat delusional. However, the vast majority of us on this forum have been wondering out loud why nothing was being done by this HC/FO in June, July, August, September and even October when they knew they had problem positions and a guy like Suh was using social media to show interest in the Browns in an area where they had a major need. Add to that the common knowledge that if addressed as needed, the Browns would be an absolute shoe-in for the playoffs right now if they had been able to garner just a couple of more wins addressing those weaknesses since the single most important missing piece of which the entire ability of the team's 2022 success was rested upon is now available to the Browns.
Not to worry though, I have it from reliable sources that the Browns will address those perceived issues in 2023 because now, THE 230M WATSON CAN PLAY, and we can't lose. While it's just my opinion to think that the window is very small in the NFL and not taking advantage of the opportunity to win when you have the opportunity to win is a gamble no team should take - just look at the LARams last year to this year, our current HC/FO has clearly shown these last 2-years that they are smarter than the other 31 HC/FO's teams and packing it in early in 2022 will pay huge dividends for the Browns in 2023 because they have more carryover cap than any other team again this year. Not that enforcing the Browns Mission Statement the last 20-years has paid many dividends, this time they have it right - with the FO, HC, and franchise QB now in tow, what could possibly go wrong?
Long before the season started, pre-draft, we had many threads about greatest needs, and I was one of few who said interior Dline while the general opinion was WR.
No doubt I am not happy with the position group, but I am far from calling it the FO packing it in.
Face it my friend, you are just chapped with the whole Baker deal and Watson signing, so everything is wrong with the world when it comes to the Browns.
Your posting history tells much. You joined in 2013 and have 933 posts. In the last 6 months you probably have 600 of them. My only point is it is a hot topic for you, and you are extremely biased. You are acting like a jilted lover seeking revenge.
He's here to fight. Just like he, Pit, and 888 were on the Watson thread where they lied about what I said regarding Baker's injury. I called them on it and that post along w/actual videos of Watson's play on the field and their lies about what I said last year [btw---I was not even on the board] remain. I think ignoring the board bullies might be better than allowing them to hijack one thread after another.
Rish, I think they wanted to win. However, all these D-linemen have been signed w/in the last few weeks and we were not fighting to improve our chances of winning in the playoffs at that point. Look at the teams that signed guys like Williams, Joseph, and Suh. The Eagles and KC. They are probably the Super Bowl favorites right now.
I can't prove this, but I think if the Browns were in contention like Philly, KC, Buffalo, Miami, etc..........they would have made these late-season moves to improve the DT position.
Again, I think they should have done more to improve the position before the season. They made a mistake. However, it would be dumb to bring in a guy like Suh when your team is 3 and 7. I know you don't like the coaching staff and that's okay. It's your opinion, but I respect your opinion because you don't resort to lies and bullying like some others on here. However, please don't let them drag you down into the mud w/their crap.
I'd say that it is the former. The 4-2-5 is widely used across the league. You just need at least 1 really powerful DT.
Speaking of DTs in the 4-2-5........I am not sure if everyone knows that one of the two is actually referred to as a NT, even though there are 4 d-linemen. The one interior guy is offset to one side or another of the Center, while the other plays in the C gap. Here is a visual if anyone wants to look. Scroll down in the article until you see
How to Run the 4-2-5 Defense
Stage 1: The Defensive Line
There is an image of the DL. Note the gap between the two DTs. That's why one of them is often referred to as a NT. Btw-------before one--or more--of the usual suspects accuse me of saying Joe Woods is a great DC w/an excellent scheme, I better say that is not what I am implying at all.
I agree we would have made a move had we won a few more games.
There may have or is concern that Woods wouldn't know what to do with the added players, or more on point used them to make any sort of impact.
I think there is some faulty and circular logic going on that avoids some basic facts.
1 - We would probably be in contention if said DT's had been signed and played and influenced the games we lost dues to piss poor defense. 2- We are miles under the cap - it's a factoid that keeps getting thrown around, what the hell use is being under the cap if you don't use it to sign one year impact rentals who can fill a giant hole? Especially knowing they don't impact your cap space in future. 3 - We have the DT's that Stefnaski and Woods wanted for their scheme and defense. . . it's not an accident that we ended up with who we have on the roster. At any point in time, even after the long suspension was announced, moves to improive the team can and should have happened.
This talk of "if we'd have been competitive a move would have been made is" a convenient rewrite of what happens, creating the narrative to fit the record ... The job of Berry, KS and Woods is to win. It's not like by being crap this year we get a better first round pick to aid the team 'once they have their QB' ...
I agree we would have made a move had we won a few more games.
There may have or is concern that Woods wouldn't know what to do with the added players, or more on point used them to make any sort of impact.
peen...then you are admitting that ownership, the front office and coaching staff "blew this year off"...giving less effort to win right now...while asking the players to give their all on every play.
The comment about Woods is really funny...he would not have known what to do if the front office had provided him with better talent than they drafted...that is so weak it's hilarious for someone to suggest as a serious excuse.
While funny and far-fetched, you could be right...the Browns owner and management love to play games with the players and fans...always putting their reputation and egos first, hanging onto players they should never have wasted a draft pick on, never wanting to admit their methods for judging draft talent stinks..but the proof is in the pudden, my friend. Look at their draft record and defensive performance that relates directly to their failures...like ranking 30 in points allowed, ranking 20 something in stopping the run
To make a move to add DT talent would be an admission of failure by the front office's draft team and a direct reflection on their ability to judge talent.
The big problem in Cleveland...the egos of ownership and his boys and their inability to admit failure.
Does anyone have a link that tells us that Stefanski and Woods went to Berry and insisted that they have the DTs we ended up with, or is this just yet another lie in a long list of lies that further a biased agenda?
I'll stand down if anyone has that link. However, I find it hard to believe that Berry is not in charge of the roster.
Does anyone have a link that tells us that Stefanski and Woods went to Berry and insisted that they have the DTs we ended up with, or is this just yet another lie in a long list of lies that further a biased agenda?
I'll stand down if anyone has that link. However, I find it hard to believe that Berry is not in charge of the roster.
For a guy that has so many on ignore you surely do respond to a lot of posts that you don't read.
As for Lies and Agenda - we'll leave that to you. You are the king of both.
I guess there is no link and 888 is telling yet another lie.
Acting like a petulant 9 year old is a new low Vers. I guess I should have seen it coming after your day of spamming the board calling me "evil" repeatedly because of my opinion and then brining my family/kids into every post for a few days.
The back and forth could go on all day. But, once again...............no way do I believe that Stefanski and Woods are in charge of the roster. I think their input is probably valued, but it's pretty evident this is Berry's team. 888 just made that statement to further another one of his hair-brained agendas.
Let me attempt to direct the thread back to the issue of FOOTBALL...
I made this post below for Peen..but I will throw it out as a question to all board members...
Did the Browns owner, front office and coaching staff "blow this season off" once they learned that Watson was suspended for 11 games?
As has been pointed out, once it was obvious that the Browns interior defensive line was not capable doing the job...
...why didn't GM Berry attempt to bring in some of the experienced free agent talent (DTs) that has been available and simply standing on the sidelines waiting to be signed. IMO, the failure of this franchise to address the DT issue is a clear indication that Haslam, the front office boys and GM Berry decided to blow the season off..preferring to use the season as an additional Pre-Season opportunity to judge their draft picks.
Originally Posted by mac
Originally Posted by Ballpeen
I agree we would have made a move had we won a few more games.
There may have or is concern that Woods wouldn't know what to do with the added players, or more on point used them to make any sort of impact.
peen...then you are admitting that ownership, the front office and coaching staff "blew this year off"...giving less effort to win right now...while asking the players to give their all on every play.
The comment about Woods is really funny...he would not have known what to do if the front office had provided him with better talent than they drafted...that is so weak it's hilarious for someone to suggest as a serious excuse.
While funny and far-fetched, you could be right...the Browns owner and management love to play games with the players and fans...always putting their reputation and egos first, hanging onto players they should never have wasted a draft pick on, never wanting to admit their methods for judging draft talent stinks..but the proof is in the pudden, my friend. Look at their draft record and defensive performance that relates directly to their failures...like ranking 30 in points allowed, ranking 20 something in stopping the run
To make a move to add DT talent would be an admission of failure by the front office's draft team and a direct reflection on their ability to judge talent.
The big problem in Cleveland...the egos of ownership and his boys and their inability to admit failure.
They're just making excuses why the Browns didn't do their best to win this year. Anyone willing to go back and look can see the very people in this forum knew before the season ever started that the DT position was a problem. So what did they do to address it during the preseason? Nothing. As soon as the season began it was painfully obvious how bad the DT position was. So what did they do to address it early on in the season? Nothing. So now, after the Browns ignored the position all off season, all preseason and even early on in the season..... They have no actual answer to why that happened. And anyone who can't see that if the Browns could have just slowed down their opponents run game they very likely could have won at least a couple more games.
Instead the FO punted until next year when come to find out that Brissett played well enough to have them in contention at this very moment. All they have are excuses why nothing was done at this point.
This just about explains it all - why the HC is so poor and why the FO appears to be calling all the shots.
Kevin Stefanski agreed to certain specific terms that limit his authority Posted by Mike Florio on January 13, 2020, 3:58 PM EST
Head football coaches like to run the show. In Cleveland, the head football coach won’t be.
As explained by Steve Doerschuk of the Canton Repository, new Browns coach Kevin Stefanski showed during his interview a willingness to yield to certain expectations of part-time chief strategy office Paul DePodesta, including having someone from the analytics group wearing a headset and having access to the coaching staff on game days. Stefanski also agreed to owner Jimmy Haslam’s desire to engage in hours-long meetings with his head coach the day after games.
Dustin Fox of 92.3 The Fan in Cleveland added that the front office expects the head coach to “turn in game plans to the owner and analytics department by Friday, and to attend an end-of-week analytics meeting to discuss their plan.”
That was OK with Stefanski, or he wouldn’t have gotten the job. It’s unclear whether it would have been OK with Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels. By all indications and objective measurements, McDaniels is far more accomplished and experienced than Stefanski, who first became offensive coordinator late in the 2018 regular season and has only one full year in the job — a year that was necessarily undermined by the presence of assistant head coach/offensive consultant Gary Kubiak, who drew strong praise from coach Mike Zimmer as the best thing that had happened to the team since Zimmer arrived as head coach.
Mary Kay Cabot of Cleveland.com reports that the job came down to Stefanski and 49ers defensive coordinator Robert Saleh. Given that the Browns were determined to make a hire on Sunday, the truth in hindsight could be that they were ready to hire the loser of their round-of-eight showdown. Which, in hindsight, would make this decision fit well within the team’s recent history of ricocheting from one bad decision to the next.
It’s unknown whether Saleh would have taken the job if offered. On one hand, once the window opens it may not stay that way. On the other hand, the 49ers have a defense built to last, which means other opportunities may come along for Saleh that won’t entail excessive intrusions into his authority as coach of the team.
It’s quite possible that the Browns planned to hire a coach on Sunday because they guessed that the Vikings would lose, and that the hire would be the guy DePodesta wanted to hire last year. As noted yesterday, if hiring DePodesta’s preferred coach gets everyone in Cleveland on the same page, so be it. If it fails, however, the part-time chief strategy officer should have the same accountability as a full-time member of the football organization, whose jobs routinely hinge on whether or not the team thrives or fails.
Outside the self-chosen few on this forum, this has been noticeable by us others that the Browns have never actually had a HC. They hired a glorified OC as HC with zero authority as a NFL HC and limited everything he could do as a HC unless cleared through them. Funny, the players been trying to tell us this for the last 2-years yet the chosen few here bought into the misinformation campaign hook, line, and sinker and blasted any player questioning the true leadership of the team. This sure answers a lot of the questions as to why the Browns are where they are - bottom dwellers. This is the HC that some on here believe will take this team to the promise land?
mac, I will try to help you get the thread back on track despite the efforts of those who hijack every freaking thread on the board.
Wait.......actually, the thread was about Player News and now you want to talk about the Browns ownership and FO? Why not just start a thread entitled The Front Office, Edition 527? LOL......just kidding....kinda/sorta.
I'll give my opinion, but I won't state it as fact.
I think the Browns made an error in talent evaluation when it came to the DTs. Many, many posters complained all off-season about the DTs and WRs. I was one of the more vocal ones. bonefish, peen, and I had many conversations about it. Many others voiced their displeasure. I will admit I was somewhat wrong about the WRs. I don't think they have been a major problem. We could have used another WR, but it wasn't a glaring weakness. Obviously, the DTs are another story. They have been horrid. The organization made an error in not upgrading the position. No doubt about it. We can crucify them and use it as ammunition to champion that everyone needs to be fired. We can ignore it and say they made a wise decision. Or, we can acknowledge that they messed up and move on. I'm in the last group. I am not giving them a pass. They made a mistake.
My earlier points centered around two things.
The first being is that I responded to a poster who said the Browns didn't want to win this year. I counted by saying that I think the Browns want to win and I used the fact that they went out and put their necks on the line to acquire one of the best QBs in the league. I wasn't chastising the poster who made his claim. He's obviously right in that we were not going to win this year. I just think it's inaccurate to take what he said and infer that the Browns organization doesn't want to win.
The second point was that all these DTs have been signed after the trade deadline. They were sitting at home all year. The teams who signed them are legit Super Bowl contenders. They are looking for an edge in an area of need. The Browns had no shot at the Super Bowl when these recent moves occurred. Thus, I can understand why they did not sign them at the time other teams signed them. What were we at the time? 3 and 7? That does not absolve the team from making a mistake w/the DT position before the season. However, I can't get on them for not beating Philly or KC to the punch late in a season when our record was awful. All those guys are probably just a partial season fix and will not be w/the teams next year.
[quote=mac]Let me attempt to direct the thread back to the issue of FOOTBALL...[quote]
Sorry mac, couldn't resist.
My feelings on the way roster construction interaction between the FO and the coaching should work is that the coaching staff says: This is the scheme we we want to use. To make it work I need players art position X that can do this and position Y that does that ... Then the FO takes this information and looks at available players and the money implications associated with those players and comes up with the best roster of players that they can.
So why do our DT's suck? I can come up with the following explanations though there may be more:
1, The coaching staff wanted small fast players rather than big strong players
2, The players that fit the preferred requirements were either not available or were not available at the right price
3, The FO didn't listen to the coaching staff.
The consensus is that to run our defensive scheme successfully that we need at least one big stout DT. It's not that we have a bunch of big guys who suck so I doubt that the explanation is #2. Option 1 places the blame on the coaching staff and option 3 places it on the FO. I don't know which one it is, and we will likely never know. But I am hoping that it is option 1 because if it is than we can easily solve this with getting rid of Woods. If it is option 3 then this signals that we are still the dysfunctional organization we have been since 1995 and that is much more disturbing to me.
So, here's a couple honest questions for all my forum friends. According to the article Vers posted (thanks) for us to read, 4-2-5 Defense Football Coaching Guide, it says the following:
For the most part, the make-up and skillset of each of the players on the defensive line in a 4-2-5 defense are vastly different than in a base defense with four down linemen.
With one notable exception: The nose tackle.
The nose tackle in a 4-2-5 defense could be perhaps the most important position on the field. That’s because the nose tackle might be the only “big body” the defense has on the field.
All the other players could be on the smaller side, exchanging size for speed and athleticism.
The role of the nose tackle is to clog up the middle of the offensive line and take on literally as many blockers as he possibly can. His initial lining up position will be somewhere between the center and the guard.
It’s not necessarily important that the nose tackle put pressure on the quarterback or make any stops in the run game himself at all.
His responsibility is to take on blockers to create holes for linebackers to plug or for them to blitz into. That’s why it’s really important the nose tackle is a very big, strong player who can take a pounding.
The other defensive tackle in the 4-2-5 system will often line up on the outside shoulder of the other offensive guard.
This is because the nose tackle should be handling the center and the other guard by himself.
This other defensive tackle’s job is to create pressure from the down position, getting into either the A or B gap on his side of the center.
My question then is if the DT (aka NT) is considered the most important position on the field to successfully run the 4-2-5 defense, who on the Cleveland Browns made the decision to run the 4-2-5 defense almost exclusively without having the needed player(s) to run the defense effectively? Actually, the Browns don't have the needed player at either DT position. What HC in his right mind would trot out a defense without having a single player on the roster that could adequately fill the most important position needed to run the defensive scheme? It's like bringing a knife to a gun fight. I guess as a quick follow up question, as a GM or owner, wouldn't you question why the HC didn't or hasn't adjusted the defensive scheme if he knew, or at minimum seen that he didn't have the horses to run the 4-2-5 scheme?
I think the confusion surrounds who is at fault for this. You do bring up a couple of good points though we already know it will be labeled as somehow nefarious by at least one poster. One would think that if you don't have the proper personnel to run the 4-2-5 that you wouldn't be running the 4-2-5. So the DC it would appear is running a D scheme that is not suited with the talent of the DL. So at first glance one could blame the DC.
But then one would have to look at what the responsibilities of an NFL HC are. Sure being good at running an O and getting the most you can out of your QB are fine attributes. But those are the attributes most often attributed to an OC. While overseeing this is a part of a HC's job, his job also includes overseeing all departments of the team including the D and ST's.
But then I think one must also look at how first time NFL HC's are hired. In almost every case when a first time NFL HC is hired, it's with the understanding that he comes from an offensive background or a defensive background. Since never having been a HC in the NFL, the vast amount of his experiences is based on one side of the ball. From that point forward one has to look at the progress over time that a first time NFL HC expands on his ability to oversee both sides of the ball. You have to look at whether he has the ability to identify and hire the right people in the parts of the game where he may have shortcomings. Whether he can identify their shortcomings and put the best interest of the team over his loyalty to his staff. A first time NFL HC has to expand his ability from one side of the ball to both sides of the ball over time.
At the end of the day a HC has to be able to delegate responsibility to the people he has entrusted to run the O, the D and the ST's. At that point it's his responsibility to oversee the entire team and give adjustments to those working under him in all phases of the game. What it amounts to is if posters see this progressing in terms of Stefnaksi? Is he able to allow his OC to run the O so he can focus and concentrate overseeing the entire team in all phases? Has he been able to hold Joe Woods accountable and make calls to force him to change the scheme to fit the players?
As for something people seem to put so much stock into which I consider more of a buzzword than accurate is, consensus. Sure you can try to come to an agreement on team needs, what type of players at what positions and cap space. But the reality is the job of each department doesn't line up with the others. Managing the cap space doesn't line up with giving the coaching staff everything they want in terms of players. The two are so different any logical thinking person would have to understand that no matter how great the word consensus sounds, there are going to be times where they will not agree.
At that point someone has the final word, the final say. I'm not trying to say it's some chaotic process. Or that there isn't a great attempt to reach a consensus. I'm just saying that the responsibilities of those managing the cap won't align with the players the coaching staff may want and someone makes the final call. I'm saying that trying to reach a consensus based on the input of everyone in the equation is a fine goal to set for yourself and try to achieve, that will not always be the final result.
So this might end up being a bit like the conversation regarding Baker playing last year, and who was responsible for trotting out an injured QB who was clearly not playing well and appeared to many to be hampered by his injury . I realize this opinion of the injury impacting Baker's performance is not shared by the Forum Guru Vers - but it is shared by many including SB winning QB's the Manning Brothers and Kurt Warner among others. In THAT conversation everyone accepted that the medical staff first have to clear the player, then it comes down to who says he plays. And that - surprisingly lead to disagreement even though most would have thought the HC makes those decisions.
In this case - with a NT / oversized DT being a critical component of a successful 4-2-5 scheme ... Berry is the most obvious person who is responsible. The GM makes the decision to sign, cut, waive, draft players. However, as I have pointed out previously, the Browns front office currently works together in collaboration very well. Berry and Stefanski are very much on the same team. My belief (called a lie by the forum guru) is that Stekanski, Woods and Berry ALL own the issue with our DT's. There's no way that Woods and KS were kicking and screaming that our DT's were inadequate. . . . why do I say this?
1. Vastly more suitable players were available. 2. These players were available on short term contracts that don't jeopardize future cap space 3. We have lots of cap space today - and according to many on the board cap space is never an issue because you can always create cap room. 4. We are talking off-season, pre-season and early season when a decision could have been made --- this idea the nothing happened because we are out of the running is a simple excuse and deflection. If the upgrades had been made in the offseason or preseason - We would most likely be in contention.
Anyway - I think most can see this. I think there might be one or two that want to deflect any possible criticism away from the FO and especially KS. It is what it is. Onwards and upwards. We have what might be a top 3 QB starting this weekend, he might be rusty but he might be ushering in a new era of uber success for the Browns with an offseason to fix the D. We can only hope.
My belief (called a lie by the forum guru) is that Stekanski, Woods and Berry ALL own the issue with our DT's./quote]
This is what you said and I asked if anyone had a link.
[quote]3 - We have the DT's that Stefnaski and Woods wanted for their scheme and defense. . . it's not an accident that we ended up with who we have on the roster.
I have never met anyone in my entire life who lies more than 888. It's constant. Day in and day out. Most of his lies are when he is trying to get others to join in attacking me. It's freaking pathetic that someone can be that obsessed w/another poster. Seek freaking help.
Let me attempt to direct the thread back to the issue of FOOTBALL...
I made this post below for Peen..but I will throw it out as a question to all board members...
Did the Browns owner, front office and coaching staff "blow this season off" once they learned that Watson was suspended for 11 games?
As has been pointed out, once it was obvious that the Browns interior defensive line was not capable doing the job...
...why didn't GM Berry attempt to bring in some of the experienced free agent talent (DTs) that has been available and simply standing on the sidelines waiting to be signed. IMO, the failure of this franchise to address the DT issue is a clear indication that Haslam, the front office boys and GM Berry decided to blow the season off..preferring to use the season as an additional Pre-Season opportunity to judge their draft picks.
Originally Posted by mac
Originally Posted by Ballpeen
I agree we would have made a move had we won a few more games.
There may have or is concern that Woods wouldn't know what to do with the added players, or more on point used them to make any sort of impact.
peen...then you are admitting that ownership, the front office and coaching staff "blew this year off"...giving less effort to win right now...while asking the players to give their all on every play.
The comment about Woods is really funny...he would not have known what to do if the front office had provided him with better talent than they drafted...that is so weak it's hilarious for someone to suggest as a serious excuse.
While funny and far-fetched, you could be right...the Browns owner and management love to play games with the players and fans...always putting their reputation and egos first, hanging onto players they should never have wasted a draft pick on, never wanting to admit their methods for judging draft talent stinks..but the proof is in the pudden, my friend. Look at their draft record and defensive performance that relates directly to their failures...like ranking 30 in points allowed, ranking 20 something in stopping the run
To make a move to add DT talent would be an admission of failure by the front office's draft team and a direct reflection on their ability to judge talent.
The big problem in Cleveland...the egos of ownership and his boys and their inability to admit failure.
I am only admitting that in your head, Mac.
Why we didn't go after Suh early on I couldn't say. I may have been the first to mention his name early on. It's possible we did reach out to Suh's camp and they didn't get back. I am not saying we did, but I am not going to say we didn't. If you know the story maybe you should be a reporter.
I am not going to go look up names, but we have brought in DT's. I am not going to say they have turned out to be any good, but it's not like we didn't try to improve.
Why we didn't go after Suh early on I couldn't say. I may have been the first to mention his name early on. It's possible we did reach out to Suh's camp and they didn't get back. I am not saying we did, but I am not going to say we didn't. If you know the story maybe you should be a reporter.
I am not going to go look up names, but we have brought in DT's. I am not going to say they have turned out to be any good, but it's not like we didn't try to improve.
peen...the fact that you seem to be having trouble admitting the Browns owner, front office and GM decided to flush the season once they learned that Watson would be suspended for 11 games...it really doesn't matter.
I was a bit puzzled by Myles Garrett's comment about wasting player's prime years when I first heard it...but when you start putting together the various puzzle pieces that make up the Browns very odd 2022 season, the complete picture begins to take shape. IMO, Myles was taking a shot at those who are the Browns decision makers and the quality of their effort...the Browns owner, the FO Boys and GM as well as the coaching staff.
Myles is busting his butt attempting to get to the QB and is getting very little help from the DT position. Garrett ranks 12th in the NFL with 10 sacks...and virtually no chance to catch the leader in sacks who has 18.
I think the entire defense realized early in the season that the Browns ownership, management and coaching staff were guilty of giving less than their max effort to win, once Watson wasn't going to be playing until December, and I believe many on the defense followed the lead ownership, management and coaches and gave less than their best effort. Why should the players risk injury for a franchise that quit on it's players.
When Berry failed to make a move to improve the interior of the Browns Defense, the defensive players got the message...
..AND PEEN, GM Berry scouring "the waiver wire" weekly, in search of CHEAP DT HELP...that is not necessarily a positive effort by Berry...honestly, trying to scrape the bottom of the barrel to find DT help is an admission that those in charge of the franchise are simply OK with their own half-assed effort.
Why did the FO let Tyeler Davison go to the Chargers? AKA why wasn't he on the 53 after a month on the PS? Well...Joe Woods said Davison wasn't "ready". An 8 year vet who is 6'2 309 lbs wasn't "ready" after a month? Ok. That same not-ready vet - whose bio sounds a lot like that big NT we so desperately need - was scooped up by the Chargers...who had just cut Tillery...who we put a waiver claim on.
Within a day or two, the Browns signed Ben Stille (5 yr vet) from the Dolphins practice squad...putting him READY and directly on the 53. He's 6'4" 296 lbs.
If there truly IS collaboration between the FO/HC/DC, then they ALL should be fired for continually not having the players needed to run a scheme AND/OR continuing to run a scheme without the players to do so.
The roster-builders have a plenty of small, supposedly-quicker LBs on the roster and even the PS...a fixture for the scheme. So they know what the scheme requires? Then why no giant NTs then? Roster building incompetence? Poor player evaluations? Hard to deny.
The FO asked Elliot to bulk up this year...presumably to man the NT position. That experiment has been a bust. Tommy Togiai has been a huge disappointment as he fits neither "need" at DT/NT.
We've wasted roster spots on: Felton (not a WR or RB) and Mond (a play for next year...because they've thrown in the towel on this year) / Dobbs rather than stealing a developmental, true NT from ANOTHER PS ...not that he would/could be ready for the 53
In the end, the is A LOT more to the issue than just not signing older DT vets looking for a playoff run in mid-season...A LOT more.
Anyway - I think most can see this. I think there might be one or two that want to deflect any possible criticism away from the FO and especially KS. It is what it is.
You have hit the nail on the head...and struck the nerve based on the resident, Board-liar's response. It's his M.O. Any stink-eye directed at the FO or HC scares the hell out of him because it "might" reflect that our former QB wasn't the only problem in '21. Any rational-thinking fan already knows that we had - and likely still have - issues that go/went beyond whomever was/is under center.
His next M.O.? He will post some links to other sites and proclaim that HE is the deliverer/barometer of "football posts". Even though he attacks you personally and is completely unable to refute your post that triggered him.
Anyway - I think most can see this. I think there might be one or two that want to deflect any possible criticism away from the FO and especially KS. It is what it is.
You have hit the nail on the head...and struck the nerve based on the resident, Board-liar's response. It's his M.O. Any stink-eye directed at the FO or HC scares the hell out of him because it "might" reflect that our former QB wasn't the only problem in '21. Any rational-thinking fan already knows that we had - and likely still have - issues that go/went beyond whomever was/is under center.
The QB was the problem. You guys need to get out of your head that Baker in any way, shape, or form is a good qb who was being held back by Stefanski. There is not even 1% truth to that. Let it go. If Baker was even decent you would have seen it this year. He was bad and the primary reason for the Browns failures last year.
Stefanski has his own issues but they have nothing to do with Baker.
So this might end up being a bit like the conversation regarding Baker playing last year, and who was responsible for trotting out an injured QB who was clearly not playing well and appeared to many to be hampered by his injury . I realize this opinion of the injury impacting Baker's performance is not shared by the Forum Guru Vers - but it is shared by many including SB winning QB's the Manning Brothers and Kurt Warner among others. In THAT conversation everyone accepted that the medical staff first have to clear the player, then it comes down to who says he plays. And that - surprisingly lead to disagreement even though most would have thought the HC makes those decisions.
In this case - with a NT / oversized DT being a critical component of a successful 4-2-5 scheme ... Berry is the most obvious person who is responsible. The GM makes the decision to sign, cut, waive, draft players. However, as I have pointed out previously, the Browns front office currently works together in collaboration very well. Berry and Stefanski are very much on the same team. My belief (called a lie by the forum guru) is that Stekanski, Woods and Berry ALL own the issue with our DT's. There's no way that Woods and KS were kicking and screaming that our DT's were inadequate. . . . why do I say this?
1. Vastly more suitable players were available. 2. These players were available on short term contracts that don't jeopardize future cap space 3. We have lots of cap space today - and according to many on the board cap space is never an issue because you can always create cap room. 4. We are talking off-season, pre-season and early season when a decision could have been made --- this idea the nothing happened because we are out of the running is a simple excuse and deflection. If the upgrades had been made in the offseason or preseason - We would most likely be in contention.
Anyway - I think most can see this. I think there might be one or two that want to deflect any possible criticism away from the FO and especially KS. It is what it is. Onwards and upwards. We have what might be a top 3 QB starting this weekend, he might be rusty but he might be ushering in a new era of uber success for the Browns with an offseason to fix the D. We can only hope.
Great points - here's a slight rebuttal for discussion. If the idea is that Berry is responsible for the decision-making process (sign, cut, waive, draft), who's responsible for the decision of the scheme the team is going to run? I would think that it's unlikely that when hired, Berry told Stefanski that the Browns have to run the 4-2-5 scheme. In fact, would anyone on this forum want to confirm that as a prerequisite to being hired, Stefanski was told he could only run the 4-2-5 defensive scheme?
Stefanski isn't stupid, I would be confident that he was well aware that the most important position (as detailed by Vers posted article) would be the DT's particularly the NT.
1. Safe to assume that the defensive scheme to run then was selected by Stefanski and only Stefanski. 2. Woods has the responsibility of deploying Stefanski's chosen scheme. Does anyone on this forum believe that Woods has the capability to switch to a 3-4 base or a 4-3 base defense without Stefanski's approval? Does anyone believe that Stefanski is limited or prohibited from running any type of defensive scheme he chooses, or must he have a Berry blessing before making any type of scheme change? 3. So, if we are to assume that the scheme choice is Stefanski's, why would Stefanski continue to mandate that scheme be run by Woods when you don't have the most important piece in place to be successful? 4. Is Berry incapable or refuses to get the proper players or is he just unaware?
This all falls in Stefanski's lap. It's his scheme, he has refused to adjust the scheme, and there must be a miscommunication between Berry and Stefanski for not addressing the most important part of the scheme. If you don't have the players - you must adjust the scheme to the skill set of your players and Stefanski has refused to do that for any part of the team since he's been the Browns HC.
I honestly don't know if KS chooses the scheme. The way that he essentially has nothing to do with Woods and coaching the D leads me to think he leaves it entirely up to JW. But you're right, the front office should know what schemes being run in acquire players to suit... Or they adjust the scheme to suit the players they have. The idea that we end up with DT's on the team that the coaching staff didn't want his ridiculous. Sure they prefer Donald or one of the NFL's leading stars, but upgrades were available and not made.Period.
[quote=mgh888]Anyway - I think most can see this. I think there might be one or two that want to deflect any possible criticism away from the FO and especially KS. It is what it is.
You have hit the nail on the head...and struck the nerve based on the resident, Board-liar's response. It's his M.O. Any stink-eye directed at the FO or HC scares the hell out of him because it "might" reflect that our former QB wasn't the only problem in '21. Any rational-thinking fan already knows that we had - and likely still have - issues that go/went beyond whomever was/is under center.
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You guys need to get out of your head that Baker in any way, shape, or form is a good qb who was being held back by Stefanski.
I never made that ^ claim...ever. Baker dealt with a lot of crap...Baker created a lot of crap...he had some success in an environment of crap...he played like crap at times...and he had a serious injury for all but 1.25 games last year.
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Stefanski has his own issues but they have nothing to do with Baker.
I agree...that's what I said ^^...and numerous other times on this board. Baker was part of the problem last year...not all...but part...and we still have problems this year.
Myles is fairly far down the list by his standards, after yet another off season of him chirping about winning DPOY.
rish...you are correct Judon from NE has 13...Myles has 10.
If Myles had a better than average DT playing next to him, it might cut down on the number of double teams Myles faces, which might help his overall performance.
I agree...that's what I said ^^...and numerous other times on this board. Baker was part of the problem last year...not all...but part...and we still have problems this year.
Which is where the problem lies. Mayfield had his issues and shouldn't have been playing no matter what he thought. To give Stefanski a total pass and point the finger a a single person was and always has been BS. IMHO, to make things even worse, some try to compare Mayfield's performance on a team with a third of the talent the Browns possess as a ratification that it was all Mayfield. However, that team with a third of the talent has just as many wins as the Browns do in 2022 while the relieved from Baker Browns are 2 games worse at this stage of the season as they were last year. Now the "hatred Boyz" can blame 2021 all they want on Mayfield, but a fair-minded person might be asking why a team with the talent of the Browns roster has continued to get worse with the "cause" eradicated? Just a thought, maybe the cause is actually still here..........but you're refusing to admit it!
It's amazing how posters keep saying that everyone but me has moved on from Mayfield, but they bring him up over and over and over again on threads that have absolutely nothing to do w/him. Phony as hell.
It's amazing how posters keep saying that everyone but me has moved on from Mayfield, but they bring him up over and over and over again on threads that have absolutely nothing to do w/him. Phony as hell.
Actually, it's you who keeps bringing up Mayfield in every one of your posts as a justification for last year because of the team with one third the talent he's playing on this year. You constantly refer back to Mayfield in every post that questions this year's team without him that is currently 2 games worse than last year's team at this point in the season. We have actually moved on from Mayfield and are questioning what the hell has happened to this team now that he's gone, and we are performing significantly poorer. Your response to any questions about the continued regression of the team is that it's just the "Baker Boyz" trying to cause an argument. The fact is and has been, Mayfield is gone, but the Browns are a worse team and Mayfield has nothing to do with that FACT! The only phony in this forum is you and Mayfield is gone, and the team is performing worse - FACT!
YOU are the one that constantly brings up the ex browns qb. CONSTANTLY, as if it makes you feel good.
Just a thought......
When he does, posters could not respond to those instances and simply let the post die on the spot instead of perpetuating the conversation and his need to bring it back up again.
The problem is, however, posters have taken this topic personally. Posters that doubled down on BM don't want to take the L. Either ignore the comments about him or take the L and move on to other issues re: The Browns. It's that easy. And my post isn't directed at you....I'm not sure where you stood on the issue, it's just what I see.
For the record, I was a Baker fan. But it slowly became evident that his sample size led to him not being the answer. Even during his injury last year, and people wanted to give him a pass, it was clear he wasn't the future. It sucks, but it's the truth. The fact we were able to quickly pivot to Watson was a good thing but we'll see what happens.
It's amazing how posters keep saying that everyone but me has moved on from Mayfield, but they bring him up over and over and over again on threads that have absolutely nothing to do w/him. Phony as hell.
Actually, it's you who keeps bringing up Mayfield in every one of your posts as a justification for last year because of the team with one third the talent he's playing on this year. You constantly refer back to Mayfield in every post that questions this year's team without him that is currently 2 games worse than last year's team at this point in the season. We have actually moved on from Mayfield and are questioning what the hell has happened to this team now that he's gone, and we are performing significantly poorer. Your response to any questions about the continued regression of the team is that it's just the "Baker Boyz" trying to cause an argument. The fact is and has been, Mayfield is gone, but the Browns are a worse team and Mayfield has nothing to do with that FACT! The only phony in this forum is you and Mayfield is gone, and the team is performing worse - FACT!
The Browns are performing worse this year based on a multitude Of reasons. In 2021 3 of the last 4 wins were against backup QBs in the league. Anytime the Browns faced A high powered offense in 2021 like the Chargers or Chiefs They failed. The Browns had good fortune in facing rookie QBs In 2021. Makes the defensive numbers look better than what they are Funny thing this year , the Browns QBing is better than last year Yet there is 2 less wins. The defense is worse than Last year's defense. The Browns are among the leagues worst tackling teams No one is creating turnovers
The special teams is struggling. There no complimentary football The Browns had A cupcake schedule in 2021. If Baker was the starter this year the Browns would have 2 wins max. He is not a winner nor a difference maker. The Browns have a much harder schedule 11 games in.
I think I would have preferred Dobbs over Mond as a backup going into next season, but maybe it won't matter if we do a late round QB selection. I'm assuming any picks we have left earlier than that will be defense. Mond vs draft selection for competition in 2023 camp?
Not trying to be rude or start an argument but I and others have read a multitude of posts that the reason the Browns were so bad last year was Mayfield. Mayfield had a bad year and was injured but having a bad year has been admitted by the vast majority on this board. The team has moved on and I have not seen a single person on this entire forum ever make any type of comment disputing that getting Watson was an upgrade at the position. The way it was handled, his off the field baggage, and failure to acknowledge any fault - yes, that has been a concern. Now with Mayfield gone, there has been mountains of posts about how good the Browns would be even with Brissett playing QB. If I didn't read it once, I read it 50 times about how the Browns had a top 5 defense. I also know for a fact - A FACT - the Browns had the weakest opening 4-game schedule in the entre NFL. In week 2, the Browns lost against the Jets and their backup QB. In week 6, the Browns got blown out by the Pats and their backup QB. In week 11, the Browns won against the Bucs with the "Goat" having the worst year of his entire career (a mere shadow of the player he used to be).
Now let me make this clear, Mayfield has been blamed for the regression of the team in 2021. You guys can all hang your hat on that opinion and that's fine with me. Mayfield is gone in 2022 and by all indications on this forum the QB play has been better, but the team is worse. I don't care why they are worse because guys like you and others swore that once the QB play got better we'd be a guaranteed playoff team. That has not happened and you still want to talk about Mayfield. You can get on this forum and dish out as many opinions (excuses) as you want but the fact still remains - Mayfield is gone as per your wishes, QB play improved by your calculations, and the team is worse than it was last year at this time. Finally, if the defense was actually bad last year as you state it was then why wasn't that addressed during the off season? More importantly, if the defense was bad last year and equally bad or worse this year, where the hell is the HC that should be making some type of adjustments over the last 2 freaking years? Wait, oh damn, Mayfield is gone so we'll have to blame it on Woods now.
Not trying to be rude or start an argument but I and others have read a multitude of posts that the reason the Browns were so bad last year was Mayfield. Mayfield had a bad year and was injured but having a bad year has been admitted by the vast majority on this board. The team has moved on and I have not seen a single person on this entire forum ever make any type of comment disputing that getting Watson was an upgrade at the position. The way it was handled, his off the field baggage, and failure to acknowledge any fault - yes, that has been a concern. Now with Mayfield gone, there has been mountains of posts about how good the Browns would be even with Brissett playing QB. If I didn't read it once, I read it 50 times about how the Browns had a top 5 defense. I also know for a fact - A FACT - the Browns had the weakest opening 4-game schedule in the entre NFL. In week 2, the Browns lost against the Jets and their backup QB. In week 6, the Browns got blown out by the Pats and their backup QB. In week 11, the Browns won against the Bucs with the "Goat" having the worst year of his entire career (a mere shadow of the player he used to be).
Now let me make this clear, Mayfield has been blamed for the regression of the team in 2021. You guys can all hang your hat on that opinion and that's fine with me. Mayfield is gone in 2022 and by all indications on this forum the QB play has been better, but the team is worse. I don't care why they are worse because guys like you and others swore that once the QB play got better we'd be a guaranteed playoff team. That has not happened and you still want to talk about Mayfield. You can get on this forum and dish out as many opinions (excuses) as you want but the fact still remains - Mayfield is gone as per your wishes, QB play improved by your calculations, and the team is worse than it was last year at this time. Finally, if the defense was actually bad last year as you state it was then why wasn't that addressed during the off season? More importantly, if the defense was bad last year and equally bad or worse this year, where the hell is the HC that should be making some type of adjustments over the last 2 freaking years? Wait, oh damn, Mayfield is gone so we'll have to blame it on Woods now.
For the record, I was one of the few who felt this defense and team Overall was very over rated going into the 2022. You ask why wasn't the defense addressed in the 2022 off season? Because those Poindexters Berry and Depodesta looked At that top 7 finish by the defense and said " why add any Difference makers , look how the D performed down the stretch" Berry and Depo had so much faith in players making That leap in their 2nd year...JOK, Green, Delphit, Togei,Phillips But those guys read their own press clippings and thought They were already great this off season. My eyes told me the Browns defense in 2021 was the beneficiary Of playing back ups and rookies. When it played A QB that had a resume of seeing every defense known To man, the carved up the Browns You can have good to great QB play and still have a sub .500 Team. Ask Watson about that. The Browns defense is actually worse this year. The tackling , the missed assignments, the scheme Is easy to figure out. Let's face it, this defense lacks teeth. Nobody plays with physicality. There are no hard hitters. The best players on this D is a sack artist and 1st year CB. Ward got payed. He's not hungry. There are no tempo setters on the D side. It's a bunch Of me players. Not team. Look at the Steelers and Bengals Those are team defenses
Not trying to be rude or start an argument but I and others have read a multitude of posts that the reason the Browns were so bad last year was Mayfield. Mayfield had a bad year and was injured but having a bad year has been admitted by the vast majority on this board. The team has moved on and I have not seen a single person on this entire forum ever make any type of comment disputing that getting Watson was an upgrade at the position. The way it was handled, his off the field baggage, and failure to acknowledge any fault - yes, that has been a concern. Now with Mayfield gone, there has been mountains of posts about how good the Browns would be even with Brissett playing QB. If I didn't read it once, I read it 50 times about how the Browns had a top 5 defense. I also know for a fact - A FACT - the Browns had the weakest opening 4-game schedule in the entre NFL. In week 2, the Browns lost against the Jets and their backup QB. In week 6, the Browns got blown out by the Pats and their backup QB. In week 11, the Browns won against the Bucs with the "Goat" having the worst year of his entire career (a mere shadow of the player he used to be).
Now let me make this clear, Mayfield has been blamed for the regression of the team in 2021. You guys can all hang your hat on that opinion and that's fine with me. Mayfield is gone in 2022 and by all indications on this forum the QB play has been better, but the team is worse. I don't care why they are worse because guys like you and others swore that once the QB play got better we'd be a guaranteed playoff team. That has not happened and you still want to talk about Mayfield. You can get on this forum and dish out as many opinions (excuses) as you want but the fact still remains - Mayfield is gone as per your wishes, QB play improved by your calculations, and the team is worse than it was last year at this time. Finally, if the defense was actually bad last year as you state it was then why wasn't that addressed during the off season? More importantly, if the defense was bad last year and equally bad or worse this year, where the hell is the HC that should be making some type of adjustments over the last 2 freaking years? Wait, oh damn, Mayfield is gone so we'll have to blame it on Woods now.
That is what many fans think.
I never thought the D was a strong unit. I thought they were OK, but not strong.
Many of your arguments on Baker might hold more weight had Baker played well in Carolina now that he is healthy. Much of his support was he was playing hurt last year.
Is he still hurt this year?
I would be in agreement with you had Baker played well, but he didn't, so I don't.
As for the D tackles, they have been poor, but I think the scheme has been a big part of the problem. I saw a change last week. They seemed set on holding position where in the past they seemed eager to get in the backfield.
I will be interested to see if this trend holds. I think Woods desire to support the D backs with a pass rush up the middle came at the expense of stopping the run.
He's no longer a player, but he was a great player and his team at Jackson State is undefeated. He's done a great job of recruiting and is a masterful teacher. I'm surprised he accepted the offer at Colorado. They are a terrible program. I think he should have waited because he certainly is a hot candidate and only would have gotten hotter.
I never thought the D was a strong unit. I thought they were OK, but not strong.
Many of your arguments on Baker might hold more weight had Baker played well in Carolina now that he is healthy. Much of his support was he was playing hurt last year.
Is he still hurt this year?
I would be in agreement with you had Baker played well, but he didn't, so I don't.
As for the D tackles, they have been poor, but I think the scheme has been a big part of the problem. I saw a change last week. They seemed set on holding position where in the past they seemed eager to get in the backfield.
I will be interested to see if this trend holds. I think Woods desire to support the D backs with a pass rush up the middle came at the expense of stopping the run.
Thanks for your candor and pointed opinion. I will say though that I'm in somewhat of a disagreement with you about Mayfield being healthy and not playing well is ramification of your opinion. A QB, no matter the QB, is only as good as his surroundings. Trying to sell the point of last year's poor performance because he hasn't performed great on a team mired in the bottom of the league with a third of the talent is unfair at best. Brady, Rodgers, Carr, Wilson, and Herbert must also be trash since they have been unable to elevate their teams to playoff standards and have performed very poorly most of the season. Enough about Baker but Peen, it has never been about Baker so to say. What it has been about from the very beginning up to and including now is that there is a group on this forum that has continually spewed their hatred for Baker and labeling him then and now (because of his play of an inferior team) as the cause of the failed season in 2021 and ridding the team of him would improve the QB to the point the Browns would instantly be playoff contenders.
My opinion along with many many others on this forum was and continues to be that the Browns have much deeper issues for their regression in 2021 than Mayfield's play and those issues have reared their ugly head 10-fold in 2022. According to the masses - the QB play has vastly improved, the team has had no injuries at WR, and we had a top 5 defense to start the season making us playoff worthy now. Instead, we have a HC Stefanski led playoff team that not only is on the verge of a second consecutive season, but its record is also actually 2 games worse than it was at this point last year with that so called trash QB Mayfield playing. Unfortunately for you and many other blind posters on this forum, any opinion stating the obvious noting that the Browns are a poor team with much deeper issues than the QB position gets met with being accused of having an agenda or being a part of the "Baker Boyz." You don't even have to take my word for it - read the posts - hell to pay if anyone dares be critical of Stefanski, Berry or FO as a whole. Those obvious and well-deserved criticisms are quickly net with personal attacks, agenda accusations and name calling. If you dare point out another post as being wrong or misinformed, you are instantly called a liar and trying to start arguments.
I said it before, and I'll say it again. The team regressed significantly in 2021 and it wasn't all Mayfield's fault by any stretch of the imagination. The Browns have further regressed in 2022 and many of the issues that were prevalent in 2021 but ignored are still alive and raising havoc with the Browns in 2022. If people really want to talk about what's wrong with the Browns, they have to first get off the Mayfield is the cause of all the team's issues or the "Baker Boyz" agenda and start looking at the real issues with the Browns which starts with the HC and FO - as it should.
The Panthers actually have quite a bit of talent on offense, including, until he was traded, a top 5 running back. They have better receivers across the board than the Browns.
But it doesn't really matter. The only reason you want to shine a light on Stefanski isn't to really discredit him as a coach, it's to discredit him as a coach to prop up Mayfield. There is no propping up Mayfield. He's unproppable. You come across as a school kid with a crush who still has a Mayfield poster on his ceiling.
The Panthers actually have quite a bit of talent on offense, including, until he was traded, a top 5 running back. They have better receivers across the board than the Browns.
But it doesn't really matter. The only reason you want to shine a light on Stefanski isn't to really discredit him as a coach, it's to discredit him as a coach to prop up Mayfield. There is no propping up Mayfield. He's unproppable. You come across as a school kid with a crush who still has a Mayfield poster on his ceiling.
Again, this is exactly what I have been talking about. Any time someone attempts to point out that there are only 4 teams with less wins than the Browns and the HC should be held accountable for not only this year's failure but last year's failure immediately gets accused of having an agenda, a Mayfield lover, and plain and simple name calling rather than face the Vegas Lights glaring issue that the team is performing poorer than last year, has steadily regressed, and a group on this forum would rather blame anyone but the real issue Stefanski. Rishuz, thanks for proving my point. I can always count on you guys to spin it to Mayfield rather than admit we have a HC and FO issue for two years now.
steve keeps saying everyone has moved on but me..........yet, he continues to force-feed Baker down our throats.
Btw-----since he won't shut the hell up about Carolina's record. The Panthers are 3 and 3 w/Walker and Darnold and 1 and 5 w/Baker. But yeah, it's the team.
steve keeps saying everyone has moved on but me..........yet, he continues to force-feed Baker down our throats.
Btw-----since he won't shut the hell up about Carolina's record. The Panthers are 3 and 3 w/Walker and Darnold and 1 and 5 w/Baker. But yeah, it's the team.
As has been pointed out - wrong thread but thank you Vers for proving my point, again.
The Panthers actually have quite a bit of talent on offense, including, until he was traded, a top 5 running back. They have better receivers across the board than the Browns.
But it doesn't really matter. The only reason you want to shine a light on Stefanski isn't to really discredit him as a coach, it's to discredit him as a coach to prop up Mayfield. There is no propping up Mayfield. He's unproppable. You come across as a school kid with a crush who still has a Mayfield poster on his ceiling.
Since we are on this subject - and that's how conversations work, we'll stay here and I'll clear my position up. Panthers under Rhule were a disaster - and Baker was part of the problem because he played really, really, really badly. He played worse this year than when injured last year. He played worse than with Freddie. So while I will always be grateful for what Baker did for the Browns and help turn the franchise around, win a play off game, bring some highlights ... unless something dramatic in his future changes, I was wrong and he is not as good as I thought he was. In talking about KS and his coaching ability - it's not to prop up Baker, because based on 2021 injured and 2022 healthy on a bad team he is not very good. I hope he bounces back and find's some mojo (and some maturity) because much like Brissett, I'll remember him fondly and wish him the best because of what he did/brought to CLE ....
With that said - KS was part of the problem last year as well as this year, no matter how bad BM is/was. That doesn't deflect from BM - it's just an belief that I and others share. And to be clear - because this is a discussion board where we all post opinions without the need to say "just my opinion" in every single post .... they don't need a link and the absence of a link doesn't make posters liars no matter what the kindergartener's want to say.
Just came here to say that was what I had heard was going to happen ... which verifies my post above, I was wrong about BM. But I'll still always appreciate him for his play as a Brown even if it was wildly inconsistent.
I hope Baker gets another shot with a decent team, I never got why he was good with going there. Imagine what the feeling of being the man one day and out the next feels like for a guy with Baker's ego. Then you get shipped to a team with a crap coach on his way out and no weapons to speak of beyond one guy. I feel like Baker went down in the perfect storm of BS. But now he'll have to earn another chance; hell, he might retire.
Too bad for Baker. I do hope he lands somewhere and I'm sure he will. I wanted him to succeed here in the worst way as I do all our players, but it became obvious he had some shortcomings. Best of luck to you Baker.
Nobody feel bad for Baker. He never put the work In to be A good to great QB. Maybe he will head butter his ex Panther Mates on his way out and handout "I'm feeling dangerous T shirts"
I didn't realize this.........Apparently he asked for his release after the team was considering making him the 3rd string qb.
Report: Baker Mayfield asked Panthers for his release share tweet email
Anthony Rizzuti follow December 5, 2022 11:12 am ET Baker Mayfield saw the writing on the wall for the rest of this nightmarish 2022 campaign. So, he’s having the Carolina Panthers sign him off.
As first reported by NFL Network insider Ian Rapoport on Monday morning, the team is planning on letting go of Mayfield later today. Well, it turns that decision is a mutual one—as ESPN senior NFL reporter Jeremy Fowler later added that the former No. 1 overall pick asked for his release.
Considering interim head coach Steve Wilks and his staff were leaning towards naming PJ Walker their backup to starter Sam Darnold, a choice that became official this morning, Mayfield’s reported request makes sense. With five weeks left in the season and a trip to free agency head this spring, he may be able to find playing time elsewhere—perhaps most notably with the San Francisco 49ers.
Mayfield’s stay in Carolina ends with a 1-5 mark over his six starts with six touchdowns, six interceptions and 1,313 passing yards.
This doesn't mean that SF won't sign Baker, but as someone who roots for SF to represent the NFC every year, I don't think I would bring Baker in. They are currently rolling and have a great team atmosphere. I'd be worried about upsetting the dynamics of the locker room. On the other hand, they might now feel the same way. I do think that SF would have to pay Baker $1.4 million if they brought him in.
For the record, Houston could have had Baker when we traded for Watson. They obviously did not want him.
It might be time for folks to finally come to grips w/the reality of the situation.
For the record Houston is playing a backup at the moment (that wasn't the case when BM was TRADED) and in my humorous comment, they wouldn't be giving up draft capital to pick him off the waiver wire if he'd been released last week and then started for the team that traded away DW.
IN a never ending attempt to smear anything some posters say you really do try way too hard.
Baker's career is almost over. In his head he is still a viable starter But Baker has very little to offer any team as a QB. He had a lucky year in Cleveland where everything fell into place The stars aligned etc etc.he is so bad the Texans passed On him without thought
He had a lucky year in Cleveland where everything fell into place The stars aligned etc etc.
Was that the year he set those rookie records or the year he led the Browns to the playoffs?
Records are made to be broken. Kinda funny how people forget How many sub-par defenses he faced that year. Be real there's been Rookie QBs who have had very productive 1st years Only to go downhill after that. Maybe if Baker wasn't so full Of himself he would still be a starter Whoopee Baker led the Browns to a playoff appearance Guess what it's means next to nothing now. The Browns are a consistent non playoff team Baker was overdrafted. His surrounding talent at OU hid a great deal of His deficiencies that you can hide in the NFL.
So let me see if I get this straight. Baker set NFL rookie QB records but that means nothing. He took the Browns to the playoffs but that means nothing. I have no problem admitting what Baker is now.
But to become that he fell off a cliff and people posting BS revisionist history like you're doing is another matter all together.
So let me see if I get this straight. Baker set NFL rookie QB records but that means nothing. He took the Browns to the playoffs but that means nothing. I have no problem admitting what Baker is now.
But to become that he fell off a cliff and people posting BS revisionist history like you're doing is another matter all together.
Ask 32 GMs what Baker's past accomplishments mean to them? Baker was never as good as perceived him to be
Two good years.....YET, he's RELEASED by one of the worst teams in league....from ONE-TOP OF THE HEAP to waiver wire....WOW, the mighty have fallen. JMHO, small, over-achiever, who the NFL has figured out.
Most ridiculous thing about Carolina is thinking Sam freaking Darnold is any good. All the talk that draft year, iirc, was Allen, Rosen, Darnold and Mayfield. Only Allen wasn’t a bust.
JMHO, Rosen has to be considered biggest bust, HE did NOTHING....and he was SO cocky coming out of college....again, feel sorry for these guys....why, they got paid more money than average man makes in decades just for their....POTENTIAL.
Most ridiculous thing about Carolina is thinking Sam freaking Darnold is any good. All the talk that draft year, iirc, was Allen, Rosen, Darnold and Mayfield. Only Allen wasn’t a bust.
I don't think he is "good." I think that they believe he is not as bad as Baker.
JMHO, Rosen has to be considered biggest bust, HE did NOTHING....and he was SO cocky coming out of college....again, feel sorry for these guys....why, they got paid more money than average man makes in decades just for their....POTENTIAL.
And the decision to move on from him was made almost instantly after he began to play. It wasn't about adding more weapons around him..... It was cutting ties and run!
I think he goes to a team that has lost its starter for the year And they are out of the playoff hunt. That team I think is the L.A Rams. They have nothing to play For the rest of the season. Stafford might retire. The front office mortgaged so much of their future They can't land a top college QB. So Baker fits. He will be very cheap and the Rams have a vet behind Wolford
Especially a backup QB. I mean, we all see how important they are. I think his starting days are over, but he can be a backup for a long time if he’s willing
This isn't player news but it's worthy of posting yet I didn't see the need for a new thread.....
Titans fire general manager Jon Robinson
The Tennessee Titans are firing general manager Jon Robinson, NFL Network Insiders Ian Rapoport and Tom Pelissero reported on Tuesday.
The team has since announced the news.
"Since becoming controlling owner in 2015, my goal has been to raise the standard for what is expected in all facets of our organization," Titans owner Amy Adams Strunk said in a statement. "I believe we have made significant progress both on and off the field through investments in leadership, personnel and new ideas. This progress includes the core of our business, the football team itself, which is regularly evaluated both by results (wins and losses) and team construction/roster building. I am proud of what we have accomplished in my eight seasons of ownership, but I believe there is more to be done and higher aspirations to be met.
"I want to thank Jon for his dedicated work to set this organization on an upward trajectory and I wish him and his family the best."
Ryan Cowden, the Titans vice president of player personnel, will take over GM duties going forward as the team begins a comprehensive search following the 2022 season.
Around the NFL will have more on this story shortly.
I think he goes to a team that has lost its starter for the year And they are out of the playoff hunt. That team I think is the L.A Rams. They have nothing to play For the rest of the season. Stafford might retire. The front office mortgaged so much of their future They can't land a top college QB. So Baker fits. He will be very cheap and the Rams have a vet behind Wolford
The Rams are desperate. They know he has a very limited upside or he has already Reached his ceiling as a QB. I hope the 65 Rams fans in attendance Will enjoy his 16 of 27 156 yds and 2 INTs stat lines Baker has been with 3 teams In less than a year. That's very telling. Can't believe how many on here cried when the Browns moved on from him
That might be the best spot he could have landed for him. He has a chance to start now as a backup and the opportunity to compete for the starting job going forward. Stafford is almost out of gas so that they will be looking for the next QB1 soon.
I'm glad to know you've spoken with Sean McVay and know how he views Baker Mayfield. Tell him I said thanks for his evaluation.
Sean McCoy's system is dependent on QBs that can deliver The ball without the benefit of max protection So it's puzzling he is bringing in a QB that wilts when his pocket Isn't perfect . I know one thing .this the 1st time he has had a midget for a QB. As Goff and Stafford are taller QBs that can see above the LOS. McVay will have to tinker with the playbook to accommodate Mayfiekds lack of height Maybe he can put lifts in his cleats
The Rams are a mess on offense. Their OL sucks and they have major injuries. It’s crazy that 10 months ago they won the title and this year they’re a bottom 5 team
The Rams are a mess on offense. Their OL sucks and they have major injuries. It’s crazy that 10 months ago they won the title and this year they’re a bottom 5 team
Really? Losing your #1 WR, your #2 still out on injury, major OL injuries and poor play, and RB injuries creates a mess with your offense resulting in uncharacteristic losses? Imagine that......................
OBJ has been on a tour of teams that are courting him. Giants, Bills, Cowboys. Chiefs are also interested. He wants to go to a team that can win the Super Bowl. Rams are not in that category this year.
The news on the status of his injured knee is not good and he might have to wait until next year to sign w/a team. And that is assuming his knee will be good enough to go by then. OBJ won't go to a team w/Baker on it.
Then again, I wonder if Baker will even be in the league next year? Only one team put a claim in on the guy who is the best qb since Joe Montana? LMAO
OBJ's Selfish 'Delay Of Plane Penalty' A Warning For NY Giants
Tigers don't change their stripes. Just like selfish people don't often change. It happens but not often. So, when former New York Giant, Odell Beckham Jr. was kicked off a plane on Sunday morning for nothing more or less than complete selfish behavior, red flags should have been flying for Big Blue general manager Joe Schoen and head coach Brian Daboll.
According to a statement by the Miami-Dade police department as reported by ESPN.com, "The flight crew was concerned for a passenger [Mr. Odell Beckham], as they tried to wake him to fasten his seat belt, he appeared to be coming in and out of consciousness, prior to their departure," the police statement said. "Fearing that Mr. Beckham was seriously ill, and that his condition would worsen through the expected 5 hour flight, the attendants called for police and fire rescue.
Upon the officers arrival, the flight crew asked Mr. Beckham several times to exit the aircraft, which he refused." There was nothing physically wrong with OBJ. He just didn't want to put his seat-belt on. Yes, professional athletes and stars can be temperamental and often seen as selfish. However, allowing that behavior to delay a plane for two hours while families are trying to get home from the holidays is unconscionable. Making everyone on the plan de-board because "you" don't want to buckle your seat-belt, is business as usual for OBJ. During his run as a New York Giant, this sort of behavior was all too familiar.
As the free agent wide receiver began his tour of potential landing spots on Sunday with his plane act, the Giants, who truly need a wide receiver, should be reminded that ownership, management and the fanbase couldn't wait until OBJ was gone. They felt the same way in Cleveland, all based on the same behavior he displayed Sunday morning on a plane with hundreds of helpless passengers. Now he sports a Super Bowl LVI ring from last year's run with the Los Angelas Rams. Notice, Rams head coach Sean McVey didn't make a big push to keep the wide receiver around and try to have him avoid free agency.
Odell Beckham Jr. is a very talented individual. However, he is far more an 'individual' than he has ever been a 'teammate.' Yes, All-Pro linebacker, Von Miller wants OBJ to join him in Buffalo for another run at a ring but remember one thing, Beckham was damaged goods when he signed with the Rams following his outright release by the Cleveland Browns. OBJ needed to resurrect his career.
Beckham did that during that Super Bowl run with Los Angelas but that was a span of two months. OBJ is a talented selfish player that the New York Giants need but really have to avoid. Let's not forget OBJ driving the bus over a possible Hall of Famer, Eli Manning. He'd drive a tank over Daniel Jones and anyone else that stood in the way of his whims. A big red flag flew in the air on Sunday and the Giants have been warned.
OBJ's Selfish 'Delay Of Plane Penalty' A Warning For NY Giants
Tigers don't change their stripes. Just like selfish people don't often change. It happens but not often. So, when former New York Giant, Odell Beckham Jr. was kicked off a plane on Sunday morning for nothing more or less than complete selfish behavior, red flags should have been flying for Big Blue general manager Joe Schoen and head coach Brian Daboll.
According to a statement by the Miami-Dade police department as reported by ESPN.com, "The flight crew was concerned for a passenger [Mr. Odell Beckham], as they tried to wake him to fasten his seat belt, he appeared to be coming in and out of consciousness, prior to their departure," the police statement said. "Fearing that Mr. Beckham was seriously ill, and that his condition would worsen through the expected 5 hour flight, the attendants called for police and fire rescue.
Upon the officers arrival, the flight crew asked Mr. Beckham several times to exit the aircraft, which he refused." There was nothing physically wrong with OBJ. He just didn't want to put his seat-belt on. Yes, professional athletes and stars can be temperamental and often seen as selfish. However, allowing that behavior to delay a plane for two hours while families are trying to get home from the holidays is unconscionable. Making everyone on the plan de-board because "you" don't want to buckle your seat-belt, is business as usual for OBJ. During his run as a New York Giant, this sort of behavior was all too familiar.
As the free agent wide receiver began his tour of potential landing spots on Sunday with his plane act, the Giants, who truly need a wide receiver, should be reminded that ownership, management and the fanbase couldn't wait until OBJ was gone. They felt the same way in Cleveland, all based on the same behavior he displayed Sunday morning on a plane with hundreds of helpless passengers. Now he sports a Super Bowl LVI ring from last year's run with the Los Angelas Rams. Notice, Rams head coach Sean McVey didn't make a big push to keep the wide receiver around and try to have him avoid free agency.
Odell Beckham Jr. is a very talented individual. However, he is far more an 'individual' than he has ever been a 'teammate.' Yes, All-Pro linebacker, Von Miller wants OBJ to join him in Buffalo for another run at a ring but remember one thing, Beckham was damaged goods when he signed with the Rams following his outright release by the Cleveland Browns. OBJ needed to resurrect his career.
Beckham did that during that Super Bowl run with Los Angelas but that was a span of two months. OBJ is a talented selfish player that the New York Giants need but really have to avoid. Let's not forget OBJ driving the bus over a possible Hall of Famer, Eli Manning. He'd drive a tank over Daniel Jones and anyone else that stood in the way of his whims. A big red flag flew in the air on Sunday and the Giants have been warned.
First off, who is Sean McCoy? I guess you must feel that McVay doesn't understand football or QB's as well as you do. To each their own.
Sean McVay. I stand corrected. But I do understand that Sean McVay is so desperate for a QB, he is signing a QB With the lowest QBR rating out 512 qualifying QBs since The inception of that metric in 2006.
McVay must really suck then, right? Do you mean lowest this season or over the course of his career? Sometimes people use stats in ways that are very misleading.
Glad he got picked up. No idea how good or bad LA are this year or if he sees much playing time. Be interesting to see if he is as bad as his Panthers play.
Nov 27, 2022; Charlotte, North Carolina, USA; Denver Broncos helmet. Mandatory Credit: Bob Donnan-USA TODAY Sports. The 2022 Denver Broncos are going absolutely nowhere after the mammoth trade for Russell Wilson last spring, and they’re evidently making some roster tweaks.
Former Vikings executive George Patron released former Vikings starting safety Anthony Harris on Tuesday, concluding Harris’ brief stint with the team.
Harris, 30, joined the Broncos in September and has played hopscotch between the practice squad and active roster since.
With five weeks to go in the 2022 regular season, Harris hits free agency, and it’s unclear if he’ll have any suitors. Denver did not use Harris on defense this season, but the Virginia alumnus did experience 43 special teams snaps.
Harris has played 98 games in the NFL while starting 61, including stops with the Vikings, Philadelphia Eagles, and Broncos. Minnesota found Harris as an undrafted free agent in 2016, and the defender used a few development years in Mike Zimmer’s defense to claw his way to mini-stardom. In 2019, Harris led the NFL in interceptions and was considered by many a Pro Bowl snub. Minnesota retained Harris on the franchise tag in 2020, but his production dipped. He was not a priority to re-sign in 2021 amid a crunched Vikings salary cap.
In his eight-year career, Harris has tabulated 356 total tackles, 10 interceptions, 5 tackles for loss, 4 fumble recoveries, and 3 QB hits.
In August, the Eagles traded for Chauncey Gardner-Johnson, a safety from the New Orleans Saints who effectively took Harris’ starting job. The Garnder-Johnson trade made Harris expendable, sending the Virginia alumnus to the free agent wire and later Denver.
Dec 23, 2019; Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA; Minnesota Vikings cornerback Anthony Harris. Mandatory Credit: Brace Hemmelgarn-USA TODAY Sports. In 2021, Harris started 14 games for the Eagles, tallying a 61.6 grade from Pro Football Focus. It was a stark departure from his herculean 90.5 score in 2019 but certainly wasn’t poor. He was tentatively slated to latch on with the Broncos on defense, but Nathaniel Hackett and Co. had other plans.
Former Vikings Mike Boone (RB), Tom Compton (OL), and Zach McCloud (OLB, PS) remain on Denver’s roster. Klint Kubiak is also the team’s quarterback coach.
The Broncos have effectively been eliminated from the postseason.
The Rams are a mess on offense. Their OL sucks and they have major injuries. It’s crazy that 10 months ago they won the title and this year they’re a bottom 5 team
On Christmas Day there is a chance of a Baker Mayfield - Russell Wilson faceoff. Happy birthday, Jesus.
The Rams are a mess on offense. Their OL sucks and they have major injuries. It’s crazy that 10 months ago they won the title and this year they’re a bottom 5 team
On Christmas Day there is a chance of a Baker Mayfield - Russell Wilson faceoff. Happy birthday, Jesus.
I saw this pop up somewhere else. What am I missing? What's makes this a big deal? How is it any different than any other Qb matchup?
Probably because both guys have been so hyped and how attention starved they both are. Add in the fact that both have been beyond putrid and you have a snarky story.
It's funny to re-read the Baker thread when Watson was acquired wow his Fan club really disappeared.
Yep when a QB plays like crap and asks for a trade from one team. Then during the following season plays like crap and asks to be released from that team. Fan clubs be like “ghost you time”
I think a big part Of Baker's undoing was he was more interested In being a celebrity than actually being a top flight NFL QB. After his rookie year, his ego had to be fed. His ego got bigger, his waistline expanded.
My feelings for Baker is like when we bought a new expensive puppy to my daughter.
The damn dog is everywhere and nowhere. Peeing on the carpet. Barking in the middle of the night. Hair all over the house. Want to go out for a walk whenever I’m tired. The dog made me crazy and after a couple of years I wanted to sell it to the highest bidder but when my daughters, my wife and the whole fkng family started to cry I couldn’t abandon our beloved little Nellie.
It’s the same with Baker. He sometimes makes you so frustrated and angry with his childish and immature behavior that you want to throw him out of the window but in the end you can’t help yourself loving him. It’s strange. There’s something with him that’s hard to explain. He will never be as good as Mahomes or Allen, not even close. He will never be safe, consistent and 100% reliable but he gives you emotions and memories that you will never forget. His first game against Nets. First play off win. His games against the Bengals. And now with the Rams. Talk about a rollercoaster.
It’s hard to abandon a guy like that. Strong, stubborn, cocky and vulnerable at the same time.
I'm impressed by watching a really good HC adjust his offensive & defensive schemes to the skill sets of the players he had on the field last night. How refreshing it was to watch a team that was missing all 3 starting WR's, the 10th different starting OL this year with only 1 OL player starting all 11 previous games, 1st and 2nd string QB's out, no DL Aaron Donald, OL Bobby Evans, OLB Terrell Lewis, CB Shaun Jolly, LB Travin Howard, RB Ronnie Rivers and CB David Long. Not to mention having to play practice squad players and not give an excuse for his team's woes. Instead, he adjusted his schemes and pulled out a last-minute victory. Stefanski can only dream of becoming half the coach McVay is today. It's so refreshing to watch a HC like McVay put on an exhibition of making in game adjustments on both sides of the ball after watching Stefanski week in and week out fail at the adjustment game.
Those are Baker’s raw numbers. Was he terrible while here? No. Was he great while here? No. Note that his yds per game dropped every year which I find odd.
This is true - but then posters have been posting about him all season even though he left before the pre-season commenced, some initiating posts more than others because Baker was playing badly (terribly) for the Panthers and they wanted to pile on. There is still interest in how he performs - and as relates to player news, his move and his playing last night in exceptional circumstances for a new team with one practice session under his belt and he won the game for the Rams - doing something (orchestrating a game winning 4th Q drive) that many criticized him for not doing in a Browns Uni ... so I think it's pretty reasonable to expect a fair bit of discussion about our Ex-QB.
Add to that - for the Panthers BM was truly bad. Worst in the NFL - but played for a pretty dysfunctional team and a HC in Matt Rhule who was totally inept. As thers have already mentioned - it'll be interesting to see how BM performs for a very good head coach. We all know that even when BM played well for Cleveland he could be wildly inconsistent (other than the one stretch of games for the playoff run in 2020).... so no at all unreasonable for him and the Rams and Mcvay to be a point of interest and discussion the rest of the season. Many of the posters here have already predicted he would be a career back up after this season, or worse and out of the NFL altogether and a talking head for College or NFL games.
I am thrilled for Baker. It didn't work out here, but he gave us some good memories and he's not a bad fellow. I hope he does well out there. I would think most of us feel this way.
I am thrilled for Baker. It didn't work out here, but he gave us some good memories and he's not a bad fellow. I hope he does well out there. I would think most of us feel this way.
Everyone I know in "real life" feels that way...except for a handful of Buckeye fans...a couple of whom aren't even Browns fans.
As a rookie, before the season started he was being interviewed. The interviewer says, tell us something you leaned in college that you think will help you as a pro. His reply? Don't run from the cops.
For the record, it was steve and some others who said over and over and over that everyone had moved on. I never once said it. Just more BS lies from that crew.
No-one said has said "we should have kept Baker" as a result of the Ram's game.
Anyone who has commented on QB talent has acknowledged that Watson is a vast improvement on BM.
In "Player News" - the idea that posters wouldn't comment on Baker [1] Being Waived [2] Being Claimed [3] Starting after 2 days and orchestrating a 98 yard winning TD drive ... is stoopid. Was never not going to get discussed and plenty of air time.
As WSU mentioned - there is absolutely no doubt the performance, the accolades in the press and by his new team mates and SB winning HC ... and the locker room reception ... must have been a bitter pill for several on here to swallow. That's hilarious and deserves comments too.
No-one said has said "we should have kept Baker" as a result of the Ram's game.
Anyone who has commented on QB talent has acknowledged that Watson is a vast improvement on BM.
In "Player News" - the idea that posters wouldn't comment on Baker [1] Being Waived [2] Being Claimed [3] Starting after 2 days and orchestrating a 98 yard winning TD drive ... is stoopid. Was never not going to get discussed and plenty of air time.
As WSU mentioned - there is absolutely no doubt the performance, the accolades in the press and by his new team mates and SB winning HC ... and the locker room reception ... must have been a bitter pill for several on here to swallow. That's hilarious and deserves comments too.
Shouldn’t be a bitter pill. Why should it? His play here was erratic.
No-one said has said "we should have kept Baker" as a result of the Ram's game.
Anyone who has commented on QB talent has acknowledged that Watson is a vast improvement on BM.
In "Player News" - the idea that posters wouldn't comment on Baker [1] Being Waived [2] Being Claimed [3] Starting after 2 days and orchestrating a 98 yard winning TD drive ... is stoopid. Was never not going to get discussed and plenty of air time.
As WSU mentioned - there is absolutely no doubt the performance, the accolades in the press and by his new team mates and SB winning HC ... and the locker room reception ... must have been a bitter pill for several on here to swallow. That's hilarious and deserves comments too.
Baker Mayfield is a bad QB who performs when expectations are low. No one expected him to play well or win the game. That's when Baker excels, like in 2018 and 2020. When the expectations ramp up, he falls short, like in 2019 and 2021. The Rams game was a perfect storm for Baker. No one expected him to play well or even win. He could just wing it. That's when Baker is at his best. The problem is it's not sustainable.
Baker Mayfield is a bad QB. The evidence is overwhelming and there is still his club on here that now blames the Panthers for his bad play. That is comical by a country mile. When Baker is out of the league or a backup next season they'll be someone or something else to blame. Never seen anything like this before where the mountain of evidence is so persuasive yet he continues to get the benefit of the doubt. Absolutely crazy.
You might be right. But as always you try too hard or assume too much what others are doing or saying when they point out factual things like Rhile is a terrible HC. Kitchens was worse. Etc. Those things are real and have an impact no matter how bad Baker is. But that's OK I guess.
You might be right. But as always you try too hard or assume too much what others are doing or saying when they point out factual things like Rhile is a terrible HC. Kitchens was worse. Etc. Those things are real and have an impact no matter how bad Baker is. But that's OK I guess.
What cracks me up when reading these posts about a player that is now gone is that through all the hatred continually posted, it's how hypocritical they are with the posts. Anytime someone posts anything critical about Stefanski or Berry, you can expect without fail that even though their results clearly warrant a change is needed IMHO, you can read post after post about how stability at HC and the FO is more important than current results due to the revolving door in Cleveland that has had a direct effect of the team's ability to be a consistent winner. How this instability in the past has had an effect on the players and ability to build a championship team.
Hypocritically, if you mention anything about the former QB's instability he had to deal with relating to the HC's it immediately goes to hatred of the player. 7 different HC's and counting in a 5-year career, 5 different OC's, and 4 different FO's has absolutely nothing to do with the former players ability to perform and grow yet those same posters will swear that making what IMHO is a warranted change due to results in Cleveland would be detrimental to the team chemistry and stability that is now crucial to a winning organization. I would guess that the lesson learned here is that stability/chemistry only depends on whether you're likeable or not to have HC/FO stability/chemistry as a factor in your career. The former player has his performance issues but no #1 draft pick in the history of the NFL has ever dealt with as much instability at the HC/FO position and still be held totally responsible for his inability to grow as an NFL QB.
What's so hilarious about the whole situation, if Stefanski were to be fired (IMHO is warranted), the hate mongers would be out in force with excuse after excuse about the HC/FO instability if the Browns start out bad next year with Watson performing poorly. I'm willing to bet there would be 100's of posts making excuses for Watson's poor play as Haslam's refusal to maintain stability at the HC/FO positions. Wait for it, it's coming, bank on it - past history guarantees it'll happen here.
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) commentaries, that the Browns made the decision to pack it in even earlier than thought? It clears up a lot of the mystery surrounding the team since it was common knowledge going back to the June camp to even the most modest fan that the Browns had exposed weaknesses at DT, WR, and LB. Thanks for clearing that up because it was confusing what you "Stefanski Sleuths" and Berry guys thought the team was doing all summer and the early season.
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