Watching the Bills play at the moment vs the Packers.
Looks like the Bills have really hit the bullseye on

Drafting....Gabriel Davis...Gregory Rosseau...Dawson Knox
Josh Allen..Ed Oliver

Trades Stefan Diggs

Free Agency ..Von Miller...Jordan Poyer.

How many players are the Browns away from being
Mentioned as contenders like the Bills?
The Browns disadvantage is that they have no #1s for
3 years. The Bills core players are all 1st RD picks
The thing is, next year DeShaun Watson will have
To play at level equal to Josh Allen....Watson can't
Be good, he has to be great.

The Bills are even getting big time plays from.their
Mid RD picks.

I think the Browns need to attempt to lure some scouts or
Front office assistants from a team like the Bills
To help accelerate this...cause DePodesta and his approach
Is failing

Over the hills and far away... away.

The Bills are a complete team and are getting outstanding play from D-Line and LBs.

Browns would have to be major players in the FA market to get a defense at this level without any 1st round picks for two more years. Free agency does not guarantee success either. All the talk during the offseason was about the juggernaut that was to be the AFC West. Only the Chiefs are serious SB contenders as the season has played out.

This has been seasons in the making for the Bills, the Chiefs as well for that matter.

I think the Bills are missing half their starting secondary too

All this off season talk about how the Browns how this
Beastly running game and how it will get
The Browns to the playoffs ....whatever ..
In a league dominated by passing, Berry decides
To build a offense with a running game and a conservative passing
Game. How has that worked out?

First, let's not kid ourselves here, getting a top 5 QB in Watson as the savior to the franchise and putting him into a run first scheme is a waste of money. If Watson is going to be the focus (aka Mahomes, Herbert, Allen, Rodgers), the current scheme would have to change. There's no way that's happening with Stefanski at the helm. I suspect Watson will ask for a replacement early on in 2023 unless the Haslam's address it this coming off season.

Second, offensively the Browns will have to address the WR position. To be blunt, there's not a single WR on the Browns roster that could displace any starter on Cincinnati, Buffalo, LAChargers or Tampa Bay. That tells me the Browns are weak at the position and if 2022 has showed anything (aka Green Bay), weakness at the position will make a top 5 QB average very quickly. There's 230M reasons why this has to change in Cleveland. The other issue is OT, with Conklin more than likely gone to FA and Wills grossly under performing at LT (32.4 PFF Grade last game), the Browns top ranked o-line is suddenly looking weak without some serious investment. Is Berry up to the task?

Third, defensively the Browns need a major overhaul in the front 7. First, Clowney, again a FA and the Browns are on the books for the next 4-years of 1.6M per in dead cap for him. I don't think the Browns can wait until May or June to see if Clowney can find a better deal. Get him signed or move on. DT is such a mess that it's going to take a whole lot of work to fix a position where the Browns have been dead last at for 2-years running. Weak LB's compound the problem but until the Browns address the front, the LB's really won't matter. FS is an issue but more importantly is Ward being paid as a top 5 CB performing at a bottom 5 level. Someone on the Browns needs to find out what the heck is going on with Ward.

If the Browns lose today, they will be 4-games out with the tie breaker less than halfway through the season. The team has gotten progressively worse under Stefanski's rule and not looking good for the rest of the season. The Browns may be getting Watson back from suspension but to be considered on the same level as Buffalo is a massive stretch. There's a ton of work to be done to get this team to a championship level and I'm not confident that Berry can do it. I'm positive that Stefanski is incapable of leading such a team.

2 LB.
1 CB.
2 interior DL.
2 WR.
1 DC.
1 STC.
1 HC.

on top of that a ton of luck, a player friendly environment built on trust and accountability plus 1 (beautiful) female masseuse next to DSW so we get a happy ending

Need more than one to keep DSW happy!

Just some thoughts.

We are short 1st rounders the next 2 years. Not 3.

On O...we need a receiver to complement Cooper. In theory we should be able to draft one, but it seems that drafting WR's isn't a strength of this FO, so we may need to go the FA route. That is about it on the O. Froholdt and Pocic look good on the O-line. Maybe sliding Teller to RT would be a good move if Hudson doesn't fit the bill at RT.

D...we need maybe 4 players.

First, we need at least 1 really solid DT. One of those big, 2 blocker eating guys.

We seem to be good at selecting DB's, so keep doing that.

We need a top safety and a better backer.

Perhaps you forgot, but Berry realized he had a trash qb and had the fortitude to put his neck on the line and sign one of the very best qbs in the game. Watson will thrive in Stefanski's offense next year. It's a qb friendly offense and we will be unbelievable when we run our Empty sets, much like Buffalo is w/Allen and KC is w/Mahomes. Our running game will actually improve significantly because teams will be forced to defend the entire field and Watson's threat to run when we roll him out.

That said, we need two good DTs and a couple of dynamic LBers. One safety who can provide support to our corners in pass coverage would also help a lot.

Like Jarvis Landry? Still scratching my head over that move.

My wishlist:

DT is a must. I don’t care what analytics say … it kills us
DE is a must. Clowney is unreliable and we have nothing beyond Garrett
S is a must. Our FS play is malpractice

If Watson is as advertised we don’t need much on offense IMO. Maybe a #2 WR and to figure out the OT spot if Conklin goes.

Good point about a DE and Clowney. I agree w/you.

Still derailing posts, I see with your hatred for Baker. How's the former QB being gone address how many players the Browns are away from being a contender with their stellar 2-5 record this year?

2 WRs that can attack any level of the defense

DT that can eat up double teams and get to the QB

2 LBers that can play physical and go sideline to sideline

2 Safties that have high football I.Q and can tackle

LT that can run block and pass block with equal high grades

DE that can play the run.

I would say 2 DT's, a FS, a LB and another WR for sure. Clearly, we weren't as "stacked" as most thought.

and a partridge in a pear tree...

That's an interesting point. Especially when you consider he swears up and down that Brissett who has throw 2 td's and 4 int's over the past four games isn't the problem. The Browns are 2-5, as of today that is, and Baker didn't play a down over that time frame. It seems like he wants it both ways depending on which way the wind is blowing. The entire thread is predicated on where the team is now and what it would take to make this team a contender from this point forward. So what does he do? He brings up prior seasons and then in the next breath will be blaming others for high jacking threads. It would be hard to even make up this BS.

And do you want to see how stupid his point actually was? Chubb was drafted in the 2018 draft. Stefnaski wasn't hired until 2020. Stefanski had nothing to do with this team being built around the running game. That's what he inherited when he got here.

As for an actual answer to the thread topic.

I think most understand the Browns need help on the interior of the DL along with a complimentary WR. Outside of that I think it's anyone's guess. They could certainly be better at the LB'er position. But I think one has to ask themselves.... This D played well after a rough start last year. Ward was playing better too. So what happened? How can mostly the same players do well last year and lay an egg this year?

I can't answer that but when considering that I have to ask myself if the problem really lies with the players and talent level. As we've seen in Carolina, when they moved to a backup QB and a new HC they look like a different team. And that's certainly not because of the talent level. Things that make you go hmmmm.....

Derailing threads to pour hate in Baker is always permitted .... As is starting meaningless threads "comparing" Baker on a bad team with a terrible now fire HC, to JB on this year's Browns. And heaven forbid someone post a meaningful football intelligent comparison of the two QBs on similar teams allbeit one was injured and one was healthy.... THAT would not be permitted and would be subject to scorn. I'll add that if Baker was on this team, talk of what players are needed to compete for a SB would be labelled an excuse, as would any talk about the bad defense.

One point that is also true: there is no such thing as a complete roster in the NFL. Coaching, development, effort, scheme, etc … that all matters. I’m sure there are guys on the Bills who wouldn’t do as well here (or anywhere that is “bad”).

We can’t possible plug all of the holes and think we’ll magically be good.

I normal disagree with you....BUT....proof is in pudding. Pluto spelled it out- one winning season in ten years of Haslams. We thought Coach of Year and ONE winning season meant we were headed to promised land....WRONG. I don't know if S has the toughness to will the team to better performance- he seems to be a rah, rah, kid of guy. How to motivate millionaires to play better? This is a pay me for what I did or will do....then, what performance do you get. Sure hope Watson with his GUARANTEED contract decides to perform. Coaching changes HAVE to be made- players play, but coaches are paid to get best performance out of their pieces and that has not occurred.

I do think the attitude and culture plays a huge role in how players perform. I'm not in the locker room or in practice every day to know what's going on behind the scenes. As with all of us I simply have to make a guess based upon my observations. Those guesses could just as well be wrong as they could be right. And not every team has the results we are seeing in Carolina. But most on this board felt the problems in Carolina were as much or more centered around the HC Matt Rhule as they were around Baker. I felt that both were a part of the problem as well. I'm not saying that Carolina will now become a successful team. What I can say is that their team is playing at a higher level. That they are competing at a much higher caliber. The attitude and culture seems much improved.

Is it the same case with the Browns? Is a change at the top needed? As I said, I'm not in the locker room or at practice every day. But what I'm certainly quite confident in saying is that the same overall defense that took the field last year didn't suddenly forget how to play. Their skill set didn't suddenly regress. Something deeper is certainly going on here.

I’d say, almost without question, that we have (and have always had) a problem with attitude in the locker room. Losing breeds losing and vice versa. We are losers.

That’s a tough ship to turn once it’s headed in that direction.

Which is the point many of us have been trying to make. The attitudes in that locker room didn't just start causing issues in October 2022. They were there all of last year and one would suspect that they were there in 2020 to a lesser degree. Except for a handful of players, the nucleus of the team that is here in 2022 was here in 2021 and 2020. Fans and media alike have tried to push this off on certain individuals over the years but the constant that has always remained is the HC Stefanski. Some off the names have changed yet 2022 is demonstrating the worse internal strife the team has experienced in years. To quote Pit, " But I think one has to ask themselves.... This D played well after a rough start last year. Ward was playing better too. So, what happened? How can mostly the same players do well last year and lay an egg this year?" I will answer that by saying that they ignored the strife that wasn't directed toward them personally in 2021 yet was a constant cloud in that locker room. In 2022, it's on their doorstep and the poor attitudes continue to grow but don't kid yourself, this has been going on since day 1 of Stefanski's rule. It's just more prevalent now but no different than last year or 2020 - a non-leadership HC in charge.

I agree!

In 2013 Sir Alex Ferguson left Manchester United (Premier League) due to age and with him 26 years of experience and leadership. In less then one summer the winning culture was gone. Players started to question their new manager, loyalty and trust flew out of the window and accountability wasn’t longer a priority. In less then 9 years 4 managers and 3 interim coaches was sacked or stripped from responsibilities.

In 2022 Man United appointment Erik ten Hag from Ajax Amsterdam. A no nonsense manager with a very strong and decisive leadership. His English was poor and he talked like a Hillbilly but make no mistakes. He knew who has to be the Alpha inside the locker room.

His first move was to install 100% accountability. After two games he benched our captain Harry Maguire and the best goal scorer ever in Cristiano Ronaldo. Bang! They where not even consulted. Trust me. A chock wave flew thru the club and at that moment it was either the manager or the players. Media was all over it and just so you know Man United is probably one of the most famous clubs in the world.

He installed meritocracy and reassured everyone that results was the only thing that matter to him. If the players didn’t show full commitment and followed instructions they where out in the cold.

It took him less than 2 month to change the entire culture inside the locker room. When the team started to win a few games in a row all players, coaches and the rest of the staff was fully committed and from now on there was only one leader in our club.

Players power was finally gone.

Come on. Are you really going to let those guys influence you? They are wrong about almost everything when it comes to football.

Think for a moment. No team is w/out holes. No team has studs at every position. This team is not that far away and next year when we are kicking ass, these guys will find something else to be wrong about while denying they were wrong about the coaching staff and culture. Read their crap now about Baker. They still refuse to admit they were wrong and that the dude sucks.

You're better than that crew. By a mile.

1. I'm pretty sure you were agreeing with him or he was agreeing with you or vice versa. Basically you guys said the same thing.

2. I'm right about Stefanski. Unfortunately.

I wasn't talking about you. I don't believe you are posting dumb, hateful stuff because you are care more about Baker than the Browns. I also don't think you are a liar.

I just think you have a negative streak, much like lead, and that you are obsessed about Stefanski. I think you are dead wrong about Stefanski and I find your constant negativity depressing, but I don't think you are coming from an ugly place like those other guys. So, I have just accepted that that is your position on Stefanski. I think you are wrong. You think I am wrong. No insults or lies either way. That's fine w/me. Different opinions are a good thing.

I can get on board with that. Especially because I don't want to be right.

I just want to win man. I just want to win.

I hope I am right, too.....but, that doesn't mean I am. In the end, being right and wrong isn't all that important.........unless, of course, people who have been proven wrong time after time after time keep creating new fights when they have no idea about what they are talking about. LOL......No, I am not including you in that group.

2-5! Eat that wise guy.

Go back one year and see if the negativity is something new or maybe our concerns was born out of a long series of questionable decisions and a lack of leadership.

I'm not sure because any Pro bowl or All Pro level player we've ever got in free agency suddenly becomes a 3rd string level player when they get here. They commit dumb penalties, can't tackle, drop passes, the list goes on. See JJ3 as the latest example

He won't do that - just check his post, he is the only one here who knows anything about football. His and only his opinion carry's any weight on this forum. Funny though that the same questions that were dismissed by this guy in 2021 about Stefanski now has grown into worse player attitudes and he's still blasting anyone who questions Stefanski's coaching and nonexistent leadership. Not to mention Stefanski is moving in on a career losing record for the Browns but can do no wrong in Vers' eyes. You have to ask yourself, who is the person who actually doesn't know football?

Translation; I am the football god of Dawgtalkers. How dare you question the great and powerful Vers!


Anyone who disagrees with me is because they love Baker Mayfield and the Browns being 2-5 as of this post has nothing to do with anything!

I think last night's game shows this team isn't that far away. A couple of DTs are needed. Maybe a stud FS, but those are hard to find. I do think JJ played w/quite a bit of fire last night. We could use another WR, but I think DPJ is quietly having himself a very good year.

Zegura mentioned today that JJ III wore the green dot for the first time all season last night and that players were commenting how much better the communication was throughout the game and how JJ III was very clear in explaining all the details.

Glad it took us til week 8 to figure that out.

Said something similar in another post. This performance is what we should have seen all season. And unless they play to a similar level each game, nothing is fixed. Hope this is the new standard for every game.

I noticed him talking to one of the guys before they broke the huddle. He gave the guy a couple of different looks like he was making sure the guy understood what he was saying. The green dot thing helps explain the "why" of that exchange.

I think some growth and development is what this team needs to be a contender.

Week #1 - Carolina Win easily could have been a Loss. Problem not players but missed assignments.

Week #2 - New York - Loss but should have been a Win. Another missed assignment and special teams' breakdown. Not players

Week #3 - Pittsburg - Win. Team played good ball most of the night. Good 2nd half adjustments shutdown the Steelers

Week #4 - Atlanta - Loss. Injuries. Let's face it this defense is built around 2 pass rushing Defensive Ends. Neither played. The young players did not step up. This was also the 1st full game without our starting Middle Linebacker.

Week #5 - LA - Loss but again should have won. Missed field goal. It happens but was magnified because of Jets loss.

Week #6 - NE - Loss. Only game this year the offense did not produce. Blame Belichick, he understands how to stop back up QB's.

Week #7 - Baltimore - Loss but easily could have been a win. Cooper got called for offensive pass interference (it was) but many times that goes uncalled. Then another special teams breakdown and field goal blocked.

Week #8 - Win. Best game played by team all year.

Let's really look at this team with a back up QB. They are 3-5 but very easily could be 5-3. If this team is 5-3 right now just a 2 game swing (when 5 games were determined by less than 3 points) they would be going into the bye week tied for 1st with a chance to get healthy and 4 games away from getting Watson under center. This team would be considered a playoff team and contender right now. 1 recovered on side kick and 1 more made field goal (LA or Baltimore). The perception would be different. This team is readu to win now but possibly may have to wait until next year.

Serious question, can I assume then, that the guy(s) who wore it in the previous 7 games were LBs? Before Walker was injured, I thought I recall players commenting on his communication was good on defense.

Didn't we literally go through this exact thing last year before giving the green dot to JJ3?

I am more worried about our "Cornerstone" players than the lack of talent at other positions - LT, CB, DE QB. The old saying that you can't have all-Pros at every position thang.

We have a LT who is uninspiring at best. He looks lazy and inconsistent on the field...I'd add disinterested. At best, he's out of position. Team has a big $$$ decision on taking his 5th yr. He is at a Cornerstone position without being a cornerstone player. With no 1st Rd picks for two more drafts we are likely stuck with the guy. If Callahan can't get it out of him, who can?

At CB we have a hundred-million-dollar man of glass. Small...not close to being tough and being paid like one of the best CBs in the league. We are S-T-U-C-K with his contract and his play for at least two more years before we have a cap-chance-in-hell of moving him.

At DE we have the most physically-gifted and yet overrated player in Browns history. He's the "face" of the franchise...yet for every Bengals game we get a few Dolphins games...he's the Browns poster-child for inconsistency when it comes to effectiveness...while being so predictable that the sunrise is his only comparison. Like Ward, we are S-T-U-C-K with him and his contract for years.

At QB we will soon have the most-controversial QB in Browns history - and that is saying one hell of a lot. It will have been 100 weeks since he took a real snap in an NFL game. He will make $230,000,000 over 5 years no matter how he plays or holds up physically...or mentally...let alone behaviorally. The last season he played he went 4-12 on a bad, dysfunctional football team. The pressure and scrutiny will be immense. Hopefully he will be a great player for us.

We don't have the draft capital to fix these spots ^ and the salary cap capital needs to find (2) DTs, (2) LBs, (2) S's. Here are the 2023 draft picks:

Round 2
Round 3 - It is unknown if this pick will be their default draft pick or a compensatory selection.
Round 4
Round 4 - via Minnesota Vikings
Round 5
Round 5 - via Los Angeles Rams
Round 6
Round 7

Free agent starters include:

Clowney
TakTaki
Bryan
Pocic
Conklin

Throw in these guys:

Hunt
D Johnson
Greedy
AJ Green (ERFA)
Dunn (RFA)

I'll leave out these guys, but Berry will probably sign them anyway:

A Walker
Hubbard
D Jones

The ship is rudder-less at all levels but for OL Coach & RB coach. What do you build this team around? Offensively...QB (we hope), RG, LG, (1) WR, TE, C (if we sign him) and ??? defensively. This team and it's leadership are as broken as are my orange-tinted sun glasses.

wills simply isn’t good enough IMO (at least in a consistent manner)

How many players away are the Browns from being contenders?

3 ...

Randy Moss, Lawrence Taylor, and Reggie White.

That was funny.

Sorry Willie. The only part of your take I agree with is on Hospital Ward. Not only is he frail. He is a me player and not a team player. Delpits fault or not, you don't point fingers at some other player to the press. It's not like talking to the police about knowing something about a murder. It was a punk move.

DE and QB, i don't have anything to say to you on that.

As for Wills, he is good enough and far from something to moan about.

Wake me IF
IFFFFFF Deshaun Watson starts his forty first game for the Cleveland Browns ... in HIs Lifetime IFFFF it ever happens, because I doubt it happens.

2020 showed you that getting all the playerz you would want doesn't guarantee winning.

Can you imagine how bad Andrew Berry, and or whomever in the Browns organization would have messed up those players' careers? If they had had the chance. WHEW.

They should have DW playing as well as Baker by the middle of next season. Take that any way you want, but this coaching staff does not impress me at all. Well, except for Bill Callahan.

Zero, or infinity. Two sides of the same coin really.

Call me when we get a new owner and then we'll talk "contender".

I’m beginning to think we’ll be looking for new OTs (at least one) this offseason. Unless we think Hudson can hold down a position and Hubbard is healthy (that never seems to be true)

Hubbard will be 32 and is a free agent after this season just like Conklin. Hudson has 2-years left on his deal and will only be 24 next season. Unless things change, replacing Conklin with either of these guys would be a downgrade at the position. Wills has yet to have a season with a PFF Grade above 70.0. The Browns must decide by May whether they are going to exercise the 5th year option on Wills for 2024 guaranteeing his salary of close to 20M. That's a whole lot of money for an OT who consistently PFF Ranks in the bottom 40% of the league. A side note, Center Nick Harris, age 25, will be back from his serious knee injury for the final year on his deal and replacement center Pocic, age 28, will be a free agent after this season. Being 25M over the 2023 cap already, will the OL be one of the areas that takes the hit on the cap adjustment? The OL could look much different in 2023.

16

1. Otto Graham
2. Jim Brown
3. Marion Motley
5. Joe Thomas
6. Ozzie Newsome
7. Paul Warfield
8. Clay Mathews
9. Jerry Sherk
10. Michael Dean Perry
11. Frank Minnifield
12. Hanford Dixon
13. Phil Dawson
14. Josh Cribbs
15 Bill Willis
16 Len Ford

Lost in all the moaning and doomsday of fans is this.

Baker could have been playing quarterback possibly under a new contract.

Russell Wilson decided he didn't want to play in Cleveland.

Aaron Rodgers decided to stay in Green Bay.

Emerson, York, Pocic, Njoku, Hudson, Alex Wright, Isaiah Thomas are players that look like keepers.

Delpit is beginning to play better.

If the Browns had not made the trade for Watson. The ability to compete and win would be nothing more than a dream.

And until you actually see it happen, it still is.

True enough.

However, without the trade we would be in the quarterback line of the draft.

Or, looking at castoffs.

Instead of having chance. We be in wonderland. Wondering when and where to find a quarterback.

You're right. When it comes to this FO using a top 10 pick on a QB in the draft the Browns would have no chance.

As proven many times over.

First round draft picks are not guaranteed.

They don't go into the NFL certified for success.

Even if they have success it may take years.

Trevor Lawrence was a first pick in the draft. He went to the worst team.

He was hyped to be a generational talent. He maybe.

And it may take five years.

Nothing is guaranteed. Including signing watson. Are the odds better? Probably. And using an example of a good QB being drafted by bad team doesn't really apply does it? Unless of course you believe with our current roster the Browns are a bad team? I actually think Stefanski has the ability to get the best out of his QB's and the Browns have a pretty good roster on O.

22

It's truly baffling in a league that is built upon parody and franchises
Being able to from pretender to contender , the Browns best
Showing is a 2nd RD playoff loss 2 years ago.
That's the best showing since 1999. Unprecedented in any sports league
The Browns Panthers and Jags and Texans are the poster children
For ineptitude. Yet you go media Homer's like Mary Kay Cabot
Trick themselves Into think " this year is the year"

Watson is a proven dual threat pro bowl quarterback in his prime.

He is not an experimental draft pick.

Yes it does apply. We had the first pick and it took four years to find out.

Baker played well for us at times. And I thanked him for his effort and what he did accomplish.

It was decided he was not the guy to reach the goal. The decision was correct.

As I pointed out. Without getting Watson. The Browns would be in search mode. We have been in that mode for over 20 years.

I don't think the Browns are that many players away. Talent gaps aren't that big in the NFL. It's all about having the right FO, head coach, and quarterback. If you have those three ingredients you have a shot. They will elevate the rest of the talent.

We have one of the three, QB. We have a maybe on GM. We need a head coach.

This is why the Browns have five players in the top 100 and are 3-6. The most important positions are unsettled.

Moving on from Baker might well be the correct team decision - most especially based on 2022 performances.

Trading for Watson at this point has an uncertain outcome. Because a move on from Baker was the right move, doesn't automatically mean Watson is the right move. We gave up enough draft capital to acquire him that we could move up for 'just about' any rookie QB over the following 2 years or in last years draft if there had been a viable target. Watson hasn't played for 2 years. This year might be a wash - but it's still a pretty big ask for any athlete to miss 2 years of playing, step back and then be at the same elite level he was at before his absence. Putting aside his sexual predatory activities - we all want the Browns to win and DW to be the answer at QB ... but there is uncertainty if that is in fact the case. this time next year we should be a long way to having the answer.

And could very well be in that mode for years to come. Watson hasn't played a down in 2-years, so we don't know what we have. We have a HC whose teams have regressed every year since he's been here. We have a defense with way more questions than answers and an o-line that will certainly look different in 2023. We also have the worst receiving group that Watson has every played with as a pro QB. Add in too those facts that Watson has a career record of only 28-25 even with making the playoffs 2 of the 4 years he has played, and uncertainty raises its big ugly head. If you don't believe roster changes or uncertainty matters, you need look no further than what's happening to Brady, Rodgers, Wilson, Carr, and Stafford this year alone. Top play at QB does not overcome weakness and uncertainty at the other positions. To rebuttal the Berry effect, how'd he do with the defensive upgrade for this year? I know many here don't like Haslam but if it was my team, I'd be pissed the direction this team has taken the last 2-years.

Decent points have been made by the last 2 posters, but I have an observation about our current team. If we had a couple of good DTs along with the ones, we currently have for rotation purposes I honestly feel our record would be reversed even with all the other personnel we have right now. Even our secondary and JB. Thoughts? JMO

I understand your viewpoint.

Until Watson plays the rust question will be there.

However, this is my viewpoint. Getting a proven young quarterback of the talent level of Watson is damn near impossible. It was only because of the circumstances that it happened.

Moving up in the draft requires giving up picks. Drafting a quarterback guarantees nothing and can take years to find out either way.

The Browns are not rebuilding. There is significant talent on the team now. This year is gone. Next year rust will not be a factor.

Nothing is guaranteed but I will take my chances with Watson. IMO he is a much lower risk than finding a draft pick and waiting for him to be ready if he ever will be.

Agreed Bone. The team needs a little re-tooling not a rebuild but the right moves have to be made and we can't afford to swing and miss on the personnel upgrades.

Uhhhh, the Panthers started play in 1995. Since that start date, the Panthers have been to the playoffs 8 times in 27 years or 30% of their seasons and 2 Super Bowls (2003, 2015). I think it's just wishful thinking to try to bunch the Browns in the same category as the Panthers the last 23 years. We can only dream of having the success the Panthers have had.

The reason that every team that did not have a franchise quarterback expressed interest or submitted a bid for Watson was because of his talent.

After this season rust should not be a factor.

KS improved the team record from six wins to the playoffs. And then won a playoff game on the road; on the way to winning head coach of the year.

The offense looking different does not equal being worse. In fact Holmes is ready and Pocic is a top ranked center and Harris will return.

There are questions on defense. Every team has questions. The defense has talent but is missing some key position players specifically at DT.
The DC and DT can be addressed.

It does require a complete team to win it all. However, when you have a top rated quarterback. You have a much better chance. Brady, Rodgers, Wilson and Stafford have all won Super Bowls.

Receivers? In 2020 the last season Watson played with the Texans their receivers were: Brandon Cooks, Will Fuller with Pharaoh Brown and Darren Fells at TE. I will take our receivers and TE's this year over the 2020 Texans.

Next year we may add more.

Steve maybe every once in awhile just try looking at a half full glass.

Duh, I do look at it half full - we have Garrett, Chubb, the best guards in football and surprisingly a topflight center. We have a former Pro Bowl QB under contract who's a sexual predator but that's a different issue. We have the best DE in football and some positive looks from some young CB's. That's half full in anyone's book. However, that half full glass is also half empty and that's ignored more often than not in this forum. Add to that fact that the HC has regressed every year and has a better chance than not of sporting a 3-year losing record at season's end. You don't make it to the Super Bowl with a half full glass and you sure don't make it to a Super Bowl with a HC that has gotten worse every year while the roster has been improved or by making excuses for his fall in wins. Hoping that the part of the glass that needs filled will be all Watson is a just an unrealistic dream to fill that glass, but QB is far from the only issue. The Browns are not winning and have regressed every year that Stefanski's has been here. Once people realize that there's many more issues, the Browns might have a chance, but they certainly need better decisions from the FO than they have been getting. Half full - you bet - near to full - not a chance!

Come on man. It is only half full when I point it out to you.

At this point going back to the sexual predator comment is unnecessary.

Regressed every year is inaccurate. He improved the record his first year. This year is incomplete. 2021 and we were in it till near the end. We played with an injured quarterback and then his backup. Two receivers Odell and Jarvis hardly played. I would like to see any team succeed with that level of play at quarterback in 2021. Add on to that that their top two receivers doing next to nothing or not playing at all. Go check Baker's PFF grade. A teams record does not always reflect the job of the head coach. You mentioned the great quarterbacks and their teams record this year. Does that mean their head coaches failed and should be fired? You want to blame Stefanski. Because when it comes to any other teams performance you point the error in other directions but not their coach. I don't see you saying Sean McVay should be fired. So again as usual you try hard to paint everything black. So please don't pretend to play a half full glass.

I did not say Watson would fill the glass. Go back and read again. I made it clear the defensive changes necessary.

Your assessment of the team is your own. We disagree. Fine.

Leave it at that.

Bone, you only read into things that you want to believe. You say the Browns were in it last year - did they have a winning record? I am shocked that you would even attempt to use injuries as an excuse for Stefanski's record last year while in the same voice attempt to hold an injured QB that the HC should have benched due to his play and injuries totally responsible for 2021. No acceptable excuse for the player and a bucket full of excuses for the coach. The coaches mentioned are suffering just this year. If that continues into and through next year of course I'd expect them to be on the hot seat. This is not year 1 for Stefanski. He's went from 11 wins in '20 to 8 wins in '21 to about 5 to 6 wins in '22. That's not painting anything "black," those are facts that cannot be denied. Likewise, your assessment of the team is your own. We do disagree and that's fine with me too.

Ok sure no impact.

Baker at quarterback and no receivers. You look at things in a vacuum.

Check the records of teams playing backup quarterbacks or having one play with the stats Baker had last year.

Belichick went from 12-4 in 2019 to 7-9 in 2020. Time to get rid of him.

Quarterback play has nothing to do with a teams record. Got it.

If you pay enough money and give away your largest future assets to boot, you can buy anything. At that point all you can do is pray that it pays off. That's exactly where the browns are now. And if Karma is a real thing, it won't.

Great play at the quarterback position ups your potential to win.

That is why they make the big bucks.

Sure it is. Now if after two years off and all the turmoil which will only continue when he comes back, if he'll ever be the same again. Do you believe in Karma?

Let me guess. Not when it comes to the Browns, right?

I think Berry has done a porous job of drafting and acquiring
Players that put the team 1st. It takes more than talent
To build a contending roster. You have to bring in players
That have a willingness to prepare to win , not just the desire
To win. I don't get the feeling that are alot players on this
Roster that want to invest the extra time to get better.

When Berry was brought on, he used every cliche about building
A football team worthy of being legit contenders
" we want accountable smart players......"
Blah blah blah every new GM hire says that at the podium
It's nothing new. He should feel some heat from the owners.
He not for one second should think his job is safe.
Berry has accomplished very little as GM.
His biggest accomplishment was acquiring a QB that set a league
Precedent regarding actions and suspension.

Now Berry is banking on this guy to be the leader of a team
Where leadership has been non existent since 1999.

I think Stefanski is good Xs and Os guy. But as far as a HC goes
None of the players fear him and he is too analytical

We are 2 coaches away from being contenders.

I don't think karma plays football.

Many great athletes were horrible people. Mike Tyson, Ty Cobb. The list is real long.

I wish karma would have been in play when trump got covid.

Karma is for people. People play football.

Again, you are missing the point and trying to change the narrative. First, giving Stefanski a pass because of the play of an injured QB who had no receivers, according to your own words, that he and he alone had the decision as to play or not play is an invalid excuse in every way. I am stunned that a person with your football knowledge would make injury excuses for the HC and in the same breath blame the injured QB without viable receivers as the reasons for losing. Second, you have yet to point out a single instance to combat the current senerio that presents itself with Stefanski. The Browns have gone from a 11-5 playoff team in 2020 to 8-9 in 2021 to what would appear to be a 5-to-6-win season in 2022. Your reference to Belechick, 12-4 in 2019 to 7-9 in 2020 is true but you forgot the 3rd year where he was back to 10-7 and a playoff berth in 2021. McVay is in his 6th year with the Rams and he has never had a losing season while going to the playoffs 4 times and winning 1 Super Bowl in the 5 previous years. Your comparison of Stefanski to those 2 guys is such a major stretch it's almost comical. What we are talking about is a HC that is putting together 2 losing seasons in a row with each one being worse than the season before.

Stefanski coaches uninspired and I don't think he has a accurate
Pulse of the team.

Actually in Belichick's first five seasons as an NFL HC his record looked like this.....

1991 Browns 6-10

1992 Browns 7-9

1993 Browns 7-9

1994 Browns 11-5

1995 Browns 5-11

There is really nothing else to say with this. Case or Baker who cares? You don't win games with either.
If you really think injury has no impact on results. You are misinformed.

You have been gunning for Stefanski in every post. OK. So be it.

You started with him when he was with the Vikings.

I disagree with you plain and simple.

Take it any way you choose. This is not a personal attack. I do not believe you view results in context. Yes, Belichick rebounded that is the point. Coaches have bad seasons because of context.

Honestly, your view of Stefanski has no bearing on mine.

Please continue to bash away all you like.

He does not. He can't motivate. He can't coach beyond the talent level. His teams play flat.

And we have people pining for him.

The worst thing this franchise can do is go into next season with him as coach of Watson. It will set you back another year because you are just delaying the inevitable.

So even though watson will have six games playing for Stefanski this year, rather than wait and see how that looks first you're already making predictions for how it would look next year? You may wish to look at the six game preview first.

I don't know much but they were better with Rashard Higgins.
so that is one player away.

Well they could have drafted Ryan Tannehill wayy-y back when, when I waz so adamant that they should, and when they traded up, for Trent Richardson.
coulda, woulda, made even more sense than the talk of redrafting and getting Josh Allen.

Assuming (!) that DW quickly plays up to his potential, we 1-2 Safeties, 1-2 DT's and one competent/quality DC....

I hope A.J. Green comes back and D'Ernest Johnson too. And Greedy Williams of course too.

I agree on 2 of the 3 players. I think with Greedy we have moved on with the additions of Newsome and Emmerson.

I dont think there’s any way greedy is back

Especially Emmerson. He's playing better than most of our 1st round picks since "99.

How tradeable is Denzell Ward, didn't they sideline him because he was getting targeted so often?
Could you get a Ist round pick for Denzel Ward?

Ward isn't going anywhere, I know he gets hurt some, but when healthy he is all pro caliber and our best CB ... JMHO

You're right, especially with his contract. And maybe he shouldn't anyway, because when healthy, he plays well the majority of the time. The secondary can't afford to lose any talent depth-wise.

Then again, if there's a team desperate for a CB after the draft or during camp and willing to give up something ridiculous (take on the contract plus 3rd round or better draft pick) - who knows? A MLB or DT included?

We need to acquire someone outside of the draft to go alongside JOK and to rebuild the DL.

You're right. Ward isn't going anywhere, nor should he (when thinking about our defense).

Injury prone or not.

since we are heading into the offseason... we are at least 28 players away that need to be resigned/replaced.

at the least.

We have 22 players scheduled for Free Agency, and then there are the spots where we need significant upgrades still.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/cleveland-browns/

Resign Dion Jones -Cheaper than his previous contract ...

Resign Anthony Walker team friendly contract ...

Resign Tavon Bryan, De Earnest Johnson, Ethan Pocic, Sione TakiTaki, A.J. Green

Let the others walk, yes including Hunt ...

What about Reggie Ragland? He seemed to play pretty well for us.

Can't imagine we'll keep D'Ernest with Ford on the roster. It'd be nice, but I don't see it.

Maybe there will be a new returner next season to take over for Ford. Grant, if 100 percent after the injury, might be an option. Don't particularly like seeing DPJ back there either.

The unfortunate thing is that D'Ernest might have had some trade value after the 2021 season, but we sort of wasted him this year.

My List (16) to Replace:

Deion Jones
Clowney
Hunt
Brissett
Chris Hubbard
Greedy Williams
Ronnie Harrison
D'Earnest Johnson
Weatherly
Pocic
Jesse James
Pharoah Brown
Ben Stiles
Graham
Odom
Kunaszyk

Keep (4)
Dun
Takitaki
Chase Winovich

On the Fence (3)
AJ Green
Taven Bryan
Anthony Walker