The QB Carousel will almost certainly kick off as soon as today because Derek Carr refused a trade to the Saints the other day and there is no way the Raiders will allow him to collect the $40.4 million that he would be due at 4 PM today. Carr has already said he won't extend the deadline.

Here are some QBs who could be on the move:

Carr
Aaron Rodgers
Lamar
Geno Smith
Jimmy G
Tannehill
Mike White
Daniel Jones
Jacoby Brissett
Baker Mayfield
Sam Darnold
Andy Dalton

Teams who could be looking for a new QB:

Carolina
NY Jets
Atlanta
Indy
Washington
Tampa Bay
Houston
Raiders
Saints
Baltimore
Seattle [if they can't sign Geno]
Tennessee

Top QBs in the draft:

CJ Stroud
Bryce Young
Will Levis
Anthony Richardson [think Baltimore]



Thoughts? Predictions?

Easiest to predict is that Aaron Rodgers isn't going anywhere no matter how many offseasons he has to bore us with the dramatics.

Lamar stays in Baltimore.

Tannehill gets released or agrees to a significantly reduced contract restructure.

Off the cuff predictions:

Brissett to the Saints
Carr to the Jets
Baker to the Colts after Matt Ryan gets released
Jimmy G to the Texans

I agree with Carr to the Jets, Jimmy G to Houston.

Hadn't thought of the Baker to Colts scenario, or Brissett to Saints.

I could see Rodgers in Vegas if he's willing. Reunite with DeVante

Jones is not moving. They like him.

I doubt Gino moves.

IMO Rodgers is gone from GB. I think they want to trade him. What Rodgers wants who knows?

Lamar to me is the big question. They can franchise him. But when does that get to where Lamar says "they don't want me?"

Baltimore IMO will not give in to the contract Lamar wants. So, maybe they decide to roll with Huntley and take the trade assets and reload.

Lamar is the big question.

Here is one opinion...


Latest 2023 NFL QB Carousel Predictions After Super Bowl LVII

GARY DAVENPORT
FEBRUARY 13, 2023


There's still a shred of confetti or two falling at State Farm Stadium as they clean up from Super Bowl LVII. But the NFL is a perpetual motion machine. It never stops moving. As soon as the Lombardi Trophy was awarded to the Kansas City Chiefs, the calendar turned to the 2023 offseason. And as we saw quite plainly in that game, if you want to win it all, you'd better have a high-end quarterback.

Some NFL teams are thankfully set in that regard. But for others, the position languishes under a cloud of uncertainty. Maybe their Hall of Fame signal-caller retired. Or they have been searching for one for years.

Whatever the reason, there is no bigger need for teams without a reliable starter. And while some will look to the draft as the answer, others will turn to this year's quarterback carousel.

Last year saw the carousel spin at dizzying speed—with mostly disappointing results. Russell Wilson had the worst year of his career in Denver. Matt Ryan and Carson Wentz are both all but certainly one-and-done after miserable campaigns. But if you think that will stop teams from buying a ticket on this year's merry-go-round, then you don't know how bad the itch can be when teams need to upgrade at QB.

This year's carousel includes a Super Bowl starter. A former No. 1 overall pick. The reigning Comeback Player of the Year. And the possibility of a trade that could be even bigger than the Wilson deal.

Here's an early look at how the carousel could play out—beginning with that potential blockbuster of a trade.


Aaron Rodgers: New York Jets
1 OF 8

We might as well start things off with a bang.

Frankly, the most likely landing spot for Aaron Rodgers in 2023 could well be right where he's at. For all the talk of the Packers being ready to potentially move on from Rodgers just as they did from Brett Favre in 2008, trading a four-time MVP who led the team to 13 wins and the NFC North title as recently as 2021 is still the kind of move that can cost a general manager his job.

But the drumbeats continue that the Packers are at least open to considering a Rodgers trade, and he told The Pat McAfee Show last month he's keeping an open mind about his playing future.

"That's No. 1—if I want to play," Rodgers said. "No. 2, it's got to be mutual on both sides. What does a team look like with me? What are the proposed direction of players they want to bring in and where I fit in and the prospects moving forward? You want to be part of a team that's going to win a championship. ... I don't need all my guys to be there. ... It's kind of the feel of the team."

However, as ESPN reported, the New York Jets have already made inquiries with the Packers about Rodgers' availability. Team owner Woody Johnson called finding a veteran upgrade at quarterback the "missing piece" needed to get New York into the playoffs. And in offensive coordinator Nathaniel Hackett and passing game coordinator Todd Downing, the Jets have recently hired a pair of offensive coaches who have history with Rodgers.

The Packers would receive a boatload of draft picks to use to build around Jordan Love. The Jets would get the veteran quarterback they so desperately seek. And Rodgers would get the opportunity to ply his trade in America's largest media market.

After his darkness retreat, Rodgers is headed for the bright lights of the Big Apple.

That should give Mike Francesa something to talk about.


Lamar Jackson: Baltimore Ravens
2 OF 8

And just like that, the quarterback carousel grinds to a halt.

Sure, there has been speculation that the Baltimore Ravens could use the exclusive franchise tag on Jackson and then trade him. Or that the Ravens could use the non-exclusive franchise tag, refuse to match an offer sheet for Jackson and then net two first-round picks in return. It has been reported that there's a wide gap in guaranteed money on the table and what Jackson (who serves as his own agent) is seeking.

Neither of those things is going to happen. Jackson isn't going anywhere. And head coach John Harbaugh made that clear while speaking to reporters.

"One hundred percent, 200 percent. There's no question about it," Harbaugh said Thursday. "Lamar Jackson is our quarterback. He's been our quarterback. Everything that we've done in terms of building our offense and building our team, how we think in terms of putting people around him is based on this incredible young man, his talent, his ability and his competitiveness."

The exclusive rights tag isn't cheap—close to $45 million. That whole knot would also hit Baltimore's cap all at once. But it would also buy the Ravens some time to work out an extension, as the exclusive rights tag is just that. Once applied, it's play for the Ravens or don't play at all.

Yes, Jackson has missed significant time each of the past two seasons. But he's also a 26-year-old former NFL MVP who may be the single hardest player in the entire NFL to defend.

Teams don't let players like that walk out the door. And they certainly don't push them through it.


Derek Carr: Washington Commanders
3 OF 8

If you enjoy rampant speculation involving more teams than you can count on one hand, then Derek Carr is your guy this offseason.

He is not, however, the Raiders' guy—months after signing him to a three-year extension that averaged just over $40 million a season, the Raiders benched Carr. And with the 31-year-old apparently not amenable to being traded and a fat chunk of that money set to become guaranteed on February 15, the clock is ticking on Carr's release.

And he won't even have to wait until free agency starts to find a new home—which potentially sets the stage for a feeding frenzy for his services.

The New York Jets could be interested as a Plan B if their pursuit of Aaron Rodgers hits a snag. The Indianapolis Colts have been swapping out one veteran quarterback for another seemingly since the Carter administration (that may be a slight exaggeration). Just about the entire NFC South has a need under center, and the New Orleans Saints already had Carr in for a visit.

But New York would be out if it can pull off a blockbuster for Rodgers. The Colts have the fourth overall pick and may finally look to add more than a stopgap quarterback. The Saints have the worst salary-cap situation in the entire NFL, and the Tampa Bay Buccaneers aren't much better off.

That leaves the Washington Commanders.

Yes, the Commanders have publicly endorsed second-year pro Sam Howell as their 2023 starter. But that's more the best of a bad set of choices than a ringing endorsement of Howell's talents.

Carr isn't an elite quarterback. But he's a step above what Washington has now. And with skill position talent, a decent offensive line and a stout defense, the Commanders aren't far off from competing for a playoff spot.

Sorry, Sam. It was fun while it lasted.


Daniel Jones: New York Giants
4 OF 8

Had you said at this point one year ago that the New York Giants would live to regret passing on the fifth-year option for quarterback Daniel Jones, you would have been scoffed at. Perhaps there would be a chortle and/or snort.

Funny how things work out.

To say that Jones had the best season of his career in 2022 is an understatement. His numbers weren't eye-popping, but Jones shined in his first year under Brian Daboll, setting a career high in passing yards while ranking fifth in the league in rushing yards among quarterbacks.

Per Paul Schwartz of the New York Post, former teammate James Bradberry believes that Jones has earned a fat payday after leading the Giants to the playoffs.

"I hope he gets it,'' Bradberry said. "I hope he gets 35 [million]. I definitely think Daniel's a franchise quarterback, and I think this season showed that and also gave him some confidence in himself to know that he is a franchise quarterback. And he's definitely got the guys over there supporting him as far as the coaches and the offensive players. I feel like he's the guy, and they should stick with him.''

It's possible the Giants will indeed ink Jones to an extension—the team has other players to re-sign (including running back Saquon Barkley), and a multiyear deal wouldn't hit the 2023 cap as hard as the franchise tag.

But whether it's via a long-term deal or a non-exclusive franchise tag that would pay Jones $32.4 million, the Giants aren't about to hit the reset button at quarterback after what the team accomplished a year ago.


Jimmy Garoppolo: Las Vegas Raiders
5 OF 8

The Las Vegas Raiders are right at the center of this year's quarterback carousel. After severing ties with Carr following a wildly disappointing season in Josh McDaniels' first year as head coach, the Raiders are in the market for a new starter. The only question is who.

There has been no shortage of speculation that the Raiders could join the Jets in taking a run at Aaron Rodgers. But per Mike Sando of The Athletic, at least one NFL executive believes that Vegas could have its sights set on another veteran signal-caller—one who wouldn't cost the team any draft picks.

"Vegas would be fine for [Rodgers]," the exec said. "It just seems like a weird fit, Rodgers' personality and Josh McDaniels. I think Josh would probably rather develop his own guy than have Rodgers, and I think he'd rather have [Jimmy] Garoppolo than Rodgers."

That groan you just heard came from Raiders fans. But the reality is unless McDaniels is ready to punt on 2023 as well, Garoppolo may be the best option available to the team If Rodgers lands elsewhere. The Raiders pick seventh in April's draft, but it's entirely possible the top three passers in this class (Bryce Young, Will Levis and C.J. Stroud) will all be gone by then.

Durability is a legitimate concern with Garoppolo, who has missed at least six games in two of the past three seasons. But Garoppolo is still relatively young at 31. He was 38-17 over 55 starts in San Francisco. Garoppolo knows McDaniels' offense inside and out. And signing him would free up the Raiders' draft picks to address a defense that needs its own share of help.

Garoppolo may not be the player Raiders fans want. But that doesn't mean he wouldn't make the team better.


Geno Smith: Seattle Seahawks
6 OF 8

There wasn't a more surprising performance under center in 2022 than the season turned in by Geno Smith of the Seattle Seahawks. Smith was supposed to be a "bridge" starter—a fill-in who would tide the team over until they could draft a long-term solution. Instead, Smith led the league in completion percentage, ranked eighth in passing yards, was fourth in touchdown passes and won Comeback Player of the Year honors.

Now, Smith heads into free agency with exponentially more leverage than he had a year ago. While appearing at the Pro Bowl, Smith told reporters he is confident he and the Seahawks will agree on an extension.

"We've had talks, and we're in the process of getting all that settled right now," Smith said. "It's looking very good. We think we can get some things done, but obviously those things take time. This is the process that I hate about the NFL because I just want to play football, but it's a business as well, so we've got to take care of business and then we'll get back to the football."

In fairness, it wouldn't be unreasonable for the Seahawks to have some reservations about pulling a Brink's truck full of cash up to Smith's crib. Calling his 2022 numbers an outlier is an understatement. Prior to last year, he had made five starts over the preceding seven seasons combined. With the fifth pick in April's draft (courtesy of Denver), the Seahawks are well-positioned to consider a top-three quarterback in the 2023 draft.

But from all indications, Smith and the Seahawks are already well on the way toward agreeing to a new deal.

Call it a case of not fixing that which is not broken.


Baker Mayfield: Tampa Bay Buccaneers
7 OF 8

The Tampa Bay Buccaneers are in the most unenviable of positions this year—attempting to replace the greatest quarterback to ever play the game.

As if that isn't enough, Brady's retirement also leaves the Buccaneers with a dead cap hit of upward of $35 million in 2023. Due in part to that, the Buccaneers are over $50 million in the red against the cap.

There won't be any megadeal for Aaron Rodgers. Or signing higher-end free agents like Carr or Garoppolo. The choices are essentially stick with what they have in journeyman backup Blaine Gabbert and youngster Kyle Trask or go the veteran journeyman route. At least one veteran Tampa beat writer believes that the Bucs could choose Door No. 2—and a former No. 1 overall pick.

While appearing on The Dan Patrick Show, Rick Stroud of The Tampa Bay Times pointed out that the Buccaneers kicked the tires on Baker Mayfield last year—and could do so again in 2023.

"I think a lot of it depends on who the [offensive] coordinator is," Stroud said, "but listen, they were looking last year for quarterbacks when Brady was out for those 40 days, and Baker was on that list."

The Buccaneers have already interviewed a pair of coaches in Georgia offensive coordinator Todd Monken and Rams assistant head coach Thomas Brown who have a history with Mayfield. Mayfield was admittedly awful in Carolina last year, but he played his best football of the season in Los Angeles.

Mayfield isn't going to make Buccaneers fans forget about Brady—at best, he's likely a bridge to the rookie Tampa will probably be using a high pick on in 2024.

But the rebuild has to start somewhere. And for all his faults, Mayfield is a better option than Gabbert or Trask.


Mike White: New Orleans Saints
8 OF 8

Mike White is hardly the biggest name on this list. Over five NFL seasons spent in Dallas and New York, White has started all of seven games—and four of those starts came in 2022 with the Jets. However, despite a lack of playing time, the soon-to-be 28-year-old White told reporters that he still believes he has what it takes to start in the NFL.

"Anytime you're named the starter, you wear that badge with honor. To be able to go out and lead these guys and just to know how hard these guys work and how important it is to them, you get that chance to lead them because every quarterback is the leader. I take that with a lot of pride and seriousness and professionalism. That's the coolest part about it for me, not so much the longevity of it, it's just the opportunity itself."

To his credit, there were times when White looked the part of a starter as well. In two of his four starts for the Jets in 2022, White surpassed 300 passing yards.

Mind you, this isn't to say that White is anyone's first choice at quarterback. Or even second. But the New Orleans Saints don't exactly enter the offseason negotiating from a position of strength. At $55.9 million in the red, the Saints have the worst cap situation in the league. Releasing Jameis Winston will clear a chunk, but it also leaves the Saints without a quarterback.

Oh, and the Saints don't have a first-round pick in 2023, either.

Is White as proven an option as Mayfield or even Jacoby Brissett? No.

But we know what those quarterbacks are—or at least have a pretty good idea.

White is more of a gamble—but it's just the kind of low-risk gamble the Saints need given their salary mess.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...rousel-predictions-after-super-bowl-lvii

Derek Carr released by Raiders after nine seasons

https://www.nfl.com/news/derek-carr-released-by-raiders-after-nine-seasons

Carr may be the first puzzle piece to be filled in.

Wasn't there talk of him going to NOLA?

The answer is the very first sentence of the thread.

Rumor is Carolina is on his list.

I'm wondering if it's more he didn't want to go there or didn't want to help the raiders get draft picks...

Not sure if he goes to the Saints but I don't think he had any interest in helping the raiders by waiving his no trade cause..

The Tua concussion situation makes me wonder if Miami is a possibility for Carr.

The Jimmy G to the Raiders idea seems to make sense.

jay, I thought about that. It's certainly a possibility. I heard one guy saying that Carr could still end up there.

Edit: Jeff Darlington just said that New Orleans remains the favorite to land Carr.

Yeah, I saw that, but the thought of one of the reporters I read said that he wanted to be released then would consider NOLA

Crazy time of year.

Five new head coaches:

Cardinals - Jonathan Gannon
Panthers - Frank Reich
Broncos - Sean Payton
Texans - DeMeco Ryans
Colts - Shane Steichen

Quarterbacks available:

Carr, Jimmy G, Tannehill, BM, Rodgers?, Lamar ?, Gino, Jacoby

Plus others.

Free agency March, Draft April.
And the media is ranking teams?????

I am pretty sure New Orleans did not want to give the Raiders the compensation the compensation that was wanted by the latter.

The Jets are in a tough spot. They really want Rodgers. The owner has been quoted as saying so. However, can they afford to wait around for Rodgers to decide whether he is playing or not next year and if he would even want to go to the Jets and risk losing Carr, who is the second most desirable qb on the market?

One other thing about the Jets. In less than 2 years, the Jets have already given up on Wilson after making him the #2 pick in the draft. The times they are a-changin'.

Still hearing rumors that Carolina will be Carr's landing spot.

I still don’t understand how they thought Wilson was a better choice than Fields. I know other teams passed on Fields too, but he was still the better choice than Wilson.

Carolina makes sense, but they are a candidate to trade up for Stroud or Young. They might also go w/Levis, who should be available at #9.

j/c

I'm ecstatic that we aren't in the running for Stroud OR Young.

When did - or has - Justin Fields demonstrated the skillset of an NFL QB?

I agree w/you, but evaluating college qbs is so freaking hard. I've given up trying because I am usually wrong. LOL. Teams mess up all the time. Think about Mahomes not being picked until 10. It's really hard for anyone to know if these QBs will be able to make their pre-snap reads well enough. And it is even way harder to predict if any of these guys can process fast enough to make their post-snap reads of coverages and who will run open. They don't have to do that in college very often. It's more of a one-read look for them.

My statement said he was still better choice than Wilson. There isn’t anything wrong with that statement. He played better competition, bigger games, played great in those games, led comebacks, made huge plays with his feet, and a solid to great arm. His main drawbacks before the draft would be the unknown of reading an NFL defense and post snap reads.

As for NFL time, he is the Offense for the Bears. They haven’t given him any weapons and the line isn’t good. I would love to see what he could do with some weapons like Garrett Wilson and Breece Hall. Or giving him someone like Mark Andrews that LJ has at TE

Absolutely Vers. I tend to love the mobility/creativity QBs. I liked Mahomes (though I would’ve never guessed he would’ve been this good). I loved LJ like Swish did, that was my top choice. But like you said, I’ve been wrong many many times.

One of the off the wall reasons I like them is their mobility. LJ or Fields is that prime example for my thought process. I will stick with Fields for my explanation. He’s has explosive ability with his legs. If the QB can’t pre or post snap read coming out of college, which wouldn’t be surprising then I still know he’s still dangerous with his mobility. Those other areas will be a work in progress. As with this year, Fields was going off on teams with his running. I don’t know the Bears system, but as you alluded to from our previous QB in the beginning, his passing vision should’ve been just half the field if he can’t make those post snap decisions to try to help him out. The issue with them is they didn’t have any good weapons at all. Heck, they overpaid to trade for Claypool to give him some kind of deep threat.

But going back to the main point, I would rather have mobility and can’t make reads, than a QB that can’t make reads/decisions and his legs aren’t a threat. At that point, you don’t have anything to work around.

I have been reading WSU's posts, but I still have him on ignore and I missed his post. I thought you were replying to me when you posted about there be nothing wrong w/your statement. I was confused because I said I agreed w/you. LOL.......Glad I finally caught that.

Regarding your actual post to me.......I still value a guy who can process things quickly more than athleticism, but I do like athletic qbs who can beat you w/his arm, head, and feet. Fields is interesting. He averaged 7.1 yards a carry this year, which I believe is an all-time high for anyone. He actually ranked 11th overall in rushing yards this year. Not just for QBs, but for everyone. You know......guys like Chubb. Amazing. He has an excellent arm and great size and strength. He doesn't see the field well and holds the ball too long. What sucks for him is that Chicago's OL is beyond horrible and they don't have good receivers. They fired Nagy, who sucked, but they replaced him w/a defensive coach. I think they might ruin the young man.

One possible positive is take a look at what Hurts did this year. They are similar guys. Fields can make the same huge strides Hurts did this year. Not sure if that can happen in Chicago, but he has the ability to do so. I think he has the want-to, as well.

When did Chicago commit to Fields?

I've given this a little thought. Having a QB like Justin Fields or Jalen Hurts is very difficult to defend against.

Why not spend money on an offensive line? Add speed receivers and running backs. Design the offense similar to Shannahan's scheme and include a few "pro" spread concepts.

These types of QBs are found in the second or third round.

The great thing about it is if the QB doesn't measure up you draft a new one. You are not investing a great deal.

I think NFL coaches are committing too much to developing a "traditional" style QB. The percentages are so low in developing one. Owners are not willing to wait. Teams must create a way of streamlining the QB position.

Philly is making a strong argument. I can't say it is something that'll work. Teams must do something better than tanking a season in order to draft the best QB. And, the season they tank has a suitable QB to draft.

I have a little different feeling on these types of QB's. Though I, as with most fans, find the play exciting - I have a hard time looking past the longevity factor. If you look at Mahomes, he threw for 5,200 yards and rushed only 61 times for 358 yards and missed no games in 2022. He has that capability to escape because of his legs but he's getting paid for his arm and he does that quite well. The important part is he's only missed 5 games in 5-years and zero missed games the last 2-years.

Hurts had a great year no question. There's a significant difference though between the players though. Hurts has averaged the last 2 years 3,422 yards passing but 772 yards rushing on 152 carries. That's 91 more times a season than Mahomes that Hurts is taking additional hits. Those extra hits have caused Hurts to miss 2 games each in the last 2 seasons.

Lamar Jackson has passed for an average of 2,562 yards per year the last 2 seasons and 2,752 average over the last 4 seasons. His running is spectacular having averaged 766 yards per season on 123 attempts. Sounds great but Jackson has also missed 5 games per season the last 2 years.

Fields in one year as being the full-time starter passed for 2,242 yards but rushed for 1,143 yards on 160 attempts. Fields also missed 2 games due to injury.

Now the excitement is there no question but all 3 of these guys are either at or moving toward huge contracts in the 40M plus per year category. That's a heck of a lot of money to invest in a QB that, to put it in context, is an injury waiting to happen. The other issue IMHO that raises cause for concern, when these guys can't run - can they carry the team with their arm?

As of today, that answer would have to be a resounding 'NO!" Example, the Chiefs adjusted their defense in the second half of the Super Bowl to shut down the run. Hurts rushed for 63 yards in the 1st half and a 10-point PHI lead. In the 2nd half, Hurts had 7 yards rushing and his team couldn't hold on to the 10-point lead. Hurts was only able to throw for 121 yards in the second half.

I know it's only one game on the league's biggest stage, but the question still remains, if Hurts can't run - can he carry the team with his arm? Not in Super Bowl 57 he couldn't.

There in that is my problem with these exciting running QB's. Being able to escape like a Mahomes and these other QB's is very exciting but when you need them to move the team through the air can they do it? Add in the increased injury factor then you really have to ask yourself - are these guys worth 40M per year and what will they look like in years 8,9, or 10? IMHO, that's the biggest issue that BAL has in dealing with Jackson. Healthy Jackson - very exciting and maybe worth 40M. Needing Jackson to carry the team with his arm and being available - HUGE QUESTION MARKS.

I think we'll learn a lot about this type of QB's future in the next few years. It only takes one to seriously burn a team before the league changes their approach to the handling of these contracts,

I hear what you are saying regarding durability. That's a huge question mark w/many of these qbs. On the other hand, I think the NFL has already transitioned to desiring QBs who are athletic. I don't see teams really drafting as many qbs who are not athletic and are throwback pocket passers.

Also, I don't want to get into a back and forth on this part, but the Eagles put up 35 points in the Super Bowl and Hurts probably outplayed Mahomes. I also think that Hurts grew by leaps and bounds as a passer this past year, so it's best if we look at last year's stats independently, rather than using the 2 year window. He's not the same player he was two years ago.

I think a lot of people [not saying you are in this group] kind of judge QBs by the color of their skin. I remember reading on here a couple of years ago how Herbert couldn't move out of the pocket. That is not a true statement. I look at a lot of the best young qbs and they are a combination of passers and athletes. Mahomes is a great passer, but he makes a lot of plays w/his legs, even if it is just buying time. Josh Allen is a great athlete and has perhaps the strongest arm in the league. Burrow is an excellent passer and his running abilities are vastly underrated. We've already talked about Hurts. Again, Herbert has a cannon and can run very well. Like Mahomes and Burrow, he also buys a lot of time in the pocket w/deft moves. Watson is another guy who can beat you w/his arm and legs.

Look at the recent drafts. What kind of QBs are teams drafting high? Traditional pocket passers or guys who have good arms and can also run?

Obviously, drafting quarterbacks is a tough nut to crack. I believe you must also have complementary players along with established coaching to have any real success. This is a tall order.

I get the durability issues and long-term stability. But, in theory, drafting a, for a lack of a better term, "spread" quarterback is allowing a team to create a functional offense. The objective here is finding a suitable QB that will get you wins. It may take several attempts to draft the chosen, but as a team, you remain competitive and still invest in adding quality players.

To me, teams are investing significantly in a quarterback they think will develop into a franchise quarterback. When their option fails, the entire organization collapses and they tear it all down and start over. This is insane. There are only so many Mahomes and Burrow types to be had.

If you think about it, the Steelers and Ravens have drafted "below expectation" quarterbacks for some time. Funny how they seem to continue to remain competitive searching for their next franchise quarterback.

In my opinion, teams must get smarter. The "Jacoby Brissett" of the world can win you games. Build your franchise and stop wasting money and resources searching solely for the "holy grail"!

No offense, but that doesn't make any sense to me.

The Steelers drafted Big Ben 11th overall and he played 18 years there. Lamar was also a first round choice and there were rumors Harbaugh was about to be fired. Lamar turned the fortunes of Baltimore around in his very first year.

Big Ben was gone this year and Lamar missed a bunch of games. Neither team made the playoffs.

Teams place a ton of importance on getting a true franchise QB.........and rightfully so.

and before Lamar the Ravens drafted Joe Flacco 18th overall... and had him for what? 11 years... before that I don't think they had much stability at QB... and after Big Ben the Steelers are hoping their 20th overall pick will be their long term starter... guess you can argue that they all came from smaller schools except Lamar... and he was what the 4th or 5th QB taken in the first round?? But still... all first rounders...

I was simply referencing Baltimore and Pittsburg has not made a huge investment in drafting a QB these past 20 years if not longer. They have done well building a foundation and succeeding with whatever QB they draft. Obviously, they have had better success with some QBs, but they are able to find something without having to invest draft capital and money.

I wish Jacoby the best.

He deserves another shot at being a starter.

Hate losing the guy. Would love to have him as our backup.

I agree with you. Jacoby seems like a stand up guy and did a great job for the Browns as their starter. I wish him the best of luck except for when he may face the Browns.

Giants’ quest to re-sign Daniel Jones takes a turn

Updated: Feb. 19, 2023, 7:48 p.m.|Published: Feb. 19, 2023, 5:56 p.m.

Daniel Jones is ready to make a change.

With free agency looming for the Giants’ quarterback, he has decided to switch agents, according to a Tweet by ESPN’s Jordan Raanan.

Jones, who just finished his fourth and best season with the Giants, will become a free agent March 15 if he cannot work out a contract extension with the team. His rookie contract, negotiated by Jim Denton of CAA Sports, was a four-year deal worth $25.6 million. It included a fifth-year option worth $22.4 million, but Giants general manager Joe Schoen declined to pay that amount.

The thinking, of course, was that Jones needed to show the Giants more than he had during his first three seasons if the team was going to keep him around for a fifth year. Jones responded by establishing career highs for completions, completion percentage, passing yards and passer rating while also leading the Giants to the playoffs for the first time since 2016.

Jones threw 15 touchdowns and just five interceptions and also rushed for a career-high 708 yards and seven touchdowns. He played perhaps his best game of the season while leading the team to a 31-24 victory over the Minnesota Vikings in the NFC Wild-Card round before struggling the following week in a lopsided loss to the NFC Champion Philadelphia Eagles.

Schoen made it clear during the team’s end-of-year news conference that he wanted to keep Jones and he’d prefer to sign the quarterback to a long-term contract extension.

It is not known who will replace Denton and CAA Sports, but Ranaan speculated that the quarterback could turn to Athletes First, which represents more players than any other NFL agency. The agency’s list of top-paid quarterbacks includes Dallas’ Dak Prescott and Cleveland’s Deshaun Watson. Todd France and David Mulugheta are among the top agents at Athletes First.

If the Giants are unable to come to terms on a new deal with Jones, they have the option of using their franchise tag to keep him around for the 2023 season. That option would cost them $32.4 million. Starting Tuesday, the Giants have until March 7 to use the franchise-tag designation.

The Giants, of course, are also in negotiations to keep running back Saquon Barkley, who was among the finalists for NFL Comeback Player of the Year after having his best season since his 2018 rookie year.

Things should get interesting with both Jones and Barkley in the weeks leading up to the start of free agency.

https://www.nj.com/giants/2023/02/g...7vH7hM9c-dUkNjIFQLb-_8qkYOBMJcB6G_d_syo4

Agree completely. He will be an asset to whichever team he goes.

Though I have a feeling if he does get another shot as a starter somewhere (and he actually does start the season as the starter due to injury, holdout etc), it will be very, very temporary. Jmho.

Perfect back-up. Good guy. Not a bad living.

So in the May or June months, there will be a Mond vs. free agent signing discussion as our #2. For some reason, I wish we had kept Dobbs - if only for camp or preseason.

I’d love to see Brissett back here, but I think he’ll get a shot at starting still

" Fully guaranteed contract."

That should be one word.

Lamar is going to take the Deshaun Watson deal from outlier to trend. And once he gets his "fully guaranteed contract."

All these other quarterbacks like Burrow, Herbert and the others will say. "I want a guaranteed contract."

The NFL owners exclusive good old boys club is about to get a bad wake up call.

You can bet all the owners and players are watching this. The players are like "You go Lamar make them squirm."

The owners who have played the game with deferred money and pay as you go. Are not wanting to shell out full deals to escrow.

I hope DW balls out and his deal ends up looking like a bargain. I have no problem with players getting as much as they can get. Football is a brutal, violent game. Careers are short like 3 years. Many players face a life of pain after their football careers. Many are left disabled by brain trauma.

All the other sports the money is guaranteed. The NFL is controlled by billionaire owners who milk the system. So, I have no problem with the players getting theirs.

Unless the Ravens come up with a guaranteed contract close to DW.

I don't see Lamar playing for them.

The franchise tag is not a good deal for the Ravens or Lamar. Exclusive tag and he gets $45. So if he agrees and plays a year where does that leave the Ravens? It still leaves the door open and sour grapes. If he does not get hurt and plays the year and does well; the price goes to $55. If he gets hurt well they just spent $45 and nobody is happy.

Non exclusive for $32 and another team will come up with 2 ones and then it begins another war.

They may as well trade him for everything they can get.

Yeah, Lamar might not play w/the Ravens if they tag him.

They are going to have to guarantee a similar amount of money that the Browns gave Watson. I think the only other option might be to tag and trade him. I don't think tagging and hoping to keep him will work.

This situation with Lamar is really unique.

There will be a lot of people paying close attention.

Owners, players, not only about where he may go but also what kind of deal he ends with.

Start with no agent, especially in this case because there are many moving parts.

He wants a fully guaranteed contract. One case is an outlier. Two becomes a trend.

Both Lamar and the Ravens are in a tight spot.

True. Like you say, the league is watching closely. I imagine that is especially true of Burrow and Herbert.

I completely agree with this part. My son got hurt his freshman year in High School playing as the Left guard. His back injuries haunt him to this day 24 years later, including a Lumbar Laminectomy 8 years ago. Maybe being a backup getting millions of dollars a year is the better gig.

We are football fans and love the game. IMO most of us overlook the reality of the game.

The evidence is overwhelming on injuries in the NFL. The players know it and accept it. The owners could care less. If they did there would be real changes not minor changes. Improvements on the playing surface, equipment, and rules. Player's lives after football is not a concern of the owners. Only that it is costly to pay for their care.

Think about this............the NBA, MLB, and the NHL all guarantee their contracts. I will post an excerpt from a larger article about the subject of guaranteed contracts in professional sports.



https://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/2185058

When we signed DW I knew it was a watershed moment.

There are many eyes on this Lamar deal. If he holds firm and gets what he wants. It will begin a new era in NFL contracts.

Think about being a NFL player knowing what you could be facing in life after football. Knowing you could have a really short career as well.

I know if I were them. You could bet I would want my money guaranteed.

Best believe the players are watching closely.

I'm good w/NFL players protecting themselves and wanting guaranteed contracts like players in the other professional leagues get. Look at this example from the link that I posted in my previous post.



What good are the gaudy monetary numbers if the team doesn't have to honor the contract? Think about Nick Chubb. He will be owed over $16 million next year. He has been wildly productive. He has been a model citizen. Yet, the Browns almost certainly will not pay him that amount of money in 2024.

The Jets Carr and Rodgers thing?

I was listening to this discussion on "Get Up." How should the Jets handle this?

Louis Reddick was saying the Jets should forget about Rodgers and having to wait on him each year about if he wants to play. Then Reddick was saying Rodgers may not show up till August to practice. They need the man first before just the quarterback. And Carr was a guy they could win with.

Really Louis? How do you know they could win with Carr? How do you know he would not practice till August?

What is the priority for the Jets? Do you want Carr for years and hope he can win?

The priority is to win a Super Bowl this year. This year. Win now. You want a chance to win a Super Bowl and you have a choice between Rodgers and Carr. Carr has never won a playoff game. He has never won a MVP. His career record is 63 - 79.

I don't care what Louis's opinion is about Rodgers the man. He is a first ballot Hall of Famer.

If Rodgers wants to play and believes he could win a Super Bowl with the Jets. He will practice and will be ready to give it all he has. Rodgers has money. In fact if he plays he will make over $59 in GB. Rodgers motivation to continue is about winning Super Bowls.

If I were the Jets and I thought the team was good enough to win with Rodgers. I would try and get him to NY.

This is a quarterback sidebar.

I listened to Bruce Arians interviewed. He was asked some quarterback questions and one was who is the best you coached?

He said Andrew Luck. He said he only coached him his rookie season but he was something else.

I remember that Luck draft like it was yesterday. IMO he was the greatest pro quarterback prospect I have ever seen. I wanted him to be a Brown so bad.

All we needed to happen was for the Jags to lose and we would have had the first pick. MJD had to have a great game and the Jags won.

Luck played the way you coach a quarterback to play. He did everything with perfect form. His throwing mechanics were flawless. He threw with anticipation and touch. He had every attribute you could look for.

It is still a shame that his career was cut short. I was sure he would go down as one of the best ever.

The Colts were a mess and did not protect him.

I don't have a link right now, but there is a report out there from ESPN that all of Lamar Jackson's contract counter-offers to the Ravens exceeded in the total amount and guaranteed money than Watson's contract.

Lamar in his mind I am sure he feels he deserves more than DW.

It doesn't matter. What will happen with his contract will be decided by what a team is willing to pay him.

Long ago I found out that what we perceive as value often does not match what something is really worth.

Nothing is sold until someone is willing to pay the price.

Lamar is going to get paid. How much will be decided when the money is in his pocket. IMO Lamar is not going to bend when it comes to guaranteed money.

Lamar has the MVP and gets more positive attention from the media than Watson, but I think Deshaun is a better all-around qb. Watson's is a much more sophisticated passer of the football in that he can read defenses and coverages better than Lamar. I think he is also more accurate, and no, I am not talking about completion percentage. However, I think there will be a team willing to pay Lamar the money he desires. I see a trade in the future and if it doesn't occur this year, I believe Lamar sits out if the Ravens don't meet his contract demands.

If you were to just look at the tape of both players and all else was not considered.

I agree DW is the better quarterback.

Lamar as a runner is unequaled. And he is a decent passer. But there are areas of the field where his accuracy falls off. Especially outside the hash marks.

DW has no limits on where he can deliver an accurate throw. He is also better at extending plays behind the LOS to throw a completion.

Once Lamar decides to not throw to a route. He is running. There are throws that he throws well.

But I agree I think DW is the better quarterback.

I think the elephant in the room with any QB, especially those switching teams, is the fit the QB's has in the new offense. IMHO, that's one of the most critical items missed when evaluating QB's. Brady has the classification as being the G.O.A.T., but would Brady been half as good as he was if he had been drafted by the 1-15 Indpls Colts like Manning was having to go through a team rebuild? When you sign a player to a monster deal, doesn't the high expectation level come with it? Of the 14 highest paid QB's in 2022, Only 3 of the 14 top paid QB's have made it to a Super Bowl in the last 5-years with their current teams. Only one (Stafford) out of the top 6 paid has made a Super Bowl in the last 5-years.

When I look at some of the deals signed the last 5 years, I ask myself where's the payoff for these monster deals?

All 2022 salary figures reflect total cash compensation as calculated by Spotrac.
1. Matthew Stafford (Rams)Trade: $61,500,000, Contract: 4 years, $160,000,000, Total guaranteed: $130,000,000 (1 Super Bowl during contract)
2. Russell Wilson (Broncos)Trade: $57,000,000, Contract: 4 years, $140,000,000, Total guaranteed: $107,000,000 (zero Super Bowls during contract)
3. Josh Allen (Bills): $46,961,405, Contract: 6 years, $258,034,000, Total guaranteed: $150,000,000 (zero Super Bowls during contract)
4. Deshaun Watson (Browns) Trade: $46,000,000, Contract: 5 years, $230,000,000, Total guaranteed: $230,000,000 (zero Super Bowls during contract)
5. Aaron Rodgers (Packers): $42,000,000, Contract: 3 years, $150,815,000, Total guaranteed: $110,515,000 (zero Super Bowls during contract)
6. Kirk Cousins (Vikings) FA: $40,000,000, Contract: 2 years, $66,000,000,Total guaranteed: $35,000,000 (zero Super Bowls during contract)
t-7. Tom Brady (Buccaneers) FA: $30,000,000, Contract: 1 year, $15,000,000, Total guaranteed: $15,000,000 (1 Super Bowl during contract)
t-7. Kyler Murray (Cardinals): $30,000,000, Contract: 5 years, $230,500,000, Total guaranteed: $189,500,000 (zero Super Bowls during contract)
9. Patrick Mahomes (Chiefs): $29,450,000, Contract: 10 years, $450,000,000, Total guaranteed: $141,481,905 (3 Super Bowls during contract)
10. Ryan Tannehill (Titans) Trade: $29,000,000, Contract: 4 years, $141,481,905, Total guaranteed: $91,000,000 (zero Super Bowls during contract)
11. Carson Wentz (Commanders) Trade: $28,294,119, Contract: 4 years, $128,000,000, Total guaranteed: $107,970,683 (zero Super Bowls during contract)
12. Jared Goff (Lions) Trade: $26,150,000, Contract: 4 years, $134,000,000, Total guaranteed: $110,042,682 (zero Super Bowls during contract)
13. Derek Carr (Raiders): $25,000,000, Contract: 3 years, $121,500,000, Total guaranteed: $65,277,519 (zero Super Bowls during contract)
14. Matt Ryan (Colts) Trade: $24,705,882, Contract: 5 years, $150,000,000, Total guaranteed: $100,000,000 (zero Super Bowls during contract)

I find it very interesting that Brady and Mahomes made 30M or less last season yet are 2 of the 3 QB's that's made a Super Bowl in the last 5-years.

Back to Jackson, he's missed 10 games in the last 2-years and that should be a serious red flag for the Ravens and the guaranteed money. If I were the Ravens (considering the rumor Jackson won't play under the franchise tag), I would be reaching out to Chicago to trade Jackson for Fields and their 1st round pick. The Ravens get a QB with 2-years left on his rookie deal that can run every bit as good as Jackson meaning little change in the offense and then use the #1 pick or their own pick to either trade for a #1 WR or draft one with one of the picks. Better yet, the Ravens could trade out of the pick and get multiple other picks. Considering his injury history and not being as good as Mahomes, I don't believe he's deserving of top 5 money fully guaranteed. I'd walk away if I could get the deal with Chicago.

This is so weird.

Lamar should try to negotiate a 1 year deal for the exclusive franchise tag amount, a guarantee that the team can't use the tag on him going forward, and require the team to provide loss of value insurance-- if they can't agree on a long term deal.

I don't know if I'd necessarily hold out in the end if tagged, but I'd definitely intimate to the team that it's a possibility and I'd do my best to apply pressure through the court of public opinion and/or locker room. Maybe this is already the plan. I know a few teammates have already come out to say, "Pay the man!"

Fit is important but to a degree the owness is on the team.

Baltimore did right with Lamar. He sat for awhile behind Flacco. Then Baltimore built the offense to fit his skill set.

IMO Brady would have risen to the top no matter. However, going to NE surely helped him to win Super Bowls.

Top notch quarterbacks give you a chance. They increase the odds. But, they don't guarantee Super Bowls.

Lamar has proven me wrong since he came into the NFL. I would never have drafted him. IMO he was a real long shot to succeed. His throwing mechanics were horrible. He stood damn near straight up. His feet were way to close together. His body position while throwing was way off.

I have give him major credit. He has become a terrific quarterback. His record proves it. The problem is will he be available. Something was fishy at the end of last season. He was only suppose to be out 3 weeks or so. He didn't play again. He didn't even attempt to get ready to play in the post season.

It seems some teammates and the coaches had issue with him. I don't know for sure, and I can not say how injured he was, or if he could play. But if you miss the playoffs? You hurt the team no matter.

He is only 26 so there are years in front of him. His career going forward will be interesting to follow. I am not going to even try to say how it will turn out.

Weird, maybe.

But when you think about it, a man with all the money, companionship, chutzpah and time necessary to do these things - who's to argue? There's something appealing about it.

Burn a vanilla candle, watch a Jersey Shore marathon, meditate and contemplate your next move.

Sign me up.

Can anyone confirm this to be true. Apparently the link doesn't and I'm in the office.

I mentioned that I heard about this earlier, but did not have a link. I just found this.


ESPN: ‘Anything Is Possible’ Regarding Lamar Jackson Trade

Originally posted on NFLTradeRumors.co | By Logan Ulrich | Last updated 2/23/23

According to ESPN’s Jeremy Fowler and Jamison Hensley, contract talks between the Ravens and QB Lamar Jackson remain at a standoff over guaranteed money.

If the standoff is not bridged, a team source acknowledged in January that Jackson could be traded.

“A couple of months ago, I would have said no way. Now it feels like anything is possible.”

Team sources tell ESPN the Ravens continue to balk at guaranteeing the full deal, while all of Jackson’s counteroffers have been for fully-guaranteed deals in excess of Browns QB Deshaun Watson‘s five-year, $230 million deal.

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/arti...ng_lamar_jackson_trade/s1_17039_38502330

Here is the link to the Fowler and Hensley article. It's probably too long to post the entire thing.


https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id...get-traded-become-free-agent-stay-ravens


Edit: For those that don't know, Hensley is ESPN's beat writer for the Ravens.

I think Lamar might be overvaluing himself at the moment. How many teams will line up to offer Baltimore the compensation they will demand and also give Lamar the contract he wants? He's been injured two years in a row now and has one season of throwing for 3,000+ yards. In my opinion, the market for Watson will have been bigger than for Lamar if it comes to that. Not sure he gets the deal he is looking for if the Ravens allow him to shop his services.

I might prefer the Ravens stuck with him playing on the franchise tag rather than the possibility of getting multiple first round picks.

It would surprise me a bit if he is able to be traded and gets the deal he is looking for.

Lamar needs someone other than his Mom negotiating his contract.

I mentioned that before. It is a big problem.

This negotiation is complex. Good agents are wired in. They have solid connections with every team. Their job is to know fair market value.

They would know what teams are prepared to give up in trade. They can play teams against each other.

This is a serious negotiation lots of moving parts. Lamar seems ready to hold out for what he believes he is worth.

It will be interesting to see where this goes.

I have the impression Lamar simply wants out of Baltimore and is playing hardball with the guaranteed money.

I disagree, although anything can happen. I think he and Harbaugh have a great relationship and he wants to be in Baltimore.

Jackson not having an agent is a major issue. But, the Deshaun Watson contract is a major factor because the assumption, traditionally, has been to pay the highest amount when it's a player's turn (if you are elite at your position) regardless if you are better. However, the guaranteed $$ aspect has scared many teams, and for good reasons.

I think some said this last March....the Watson deal may completely alter future contracts. We'll shall see.

j/c.

Jackson is in the drivers seat right now. Problem is, he doesn't have control of the steering wheel, the accelerator, or the brakes. He can demand all he wants, and maybe he wants out of Baltimore, but pushing it too far may bite his contract (future) in the butt.

Jackson looks like he just spent the weekend with Ricky Williams, and Willie Nelson.

Best quarterbacks available in the 2023 NFL Draft and free agency


By Sam Monson
Feb 23, 2023

• Derek Carr the top realistic free-agent option? Carr has been a solid starter but ranked 25th in PFF passing grade (65.4) in 2022 and may not be anybody’s first choice as a solution.

• Will size concerns drop Bryce Young down draft boards? Young is the top player on PFF’s big board and the owner of by far the best college tape of the class, but his size is going to be virtually unprecedented in the NFL.

• Justin Fields up for grabs? Chicago stumbling into the No. 1 overall pick puts the prospect of trading away Justin Fields on the table. Already halfway through his cheap rookie contract, the Bears still don’t know exactly what they have other than one of the most electrifying athletes in the game.

Estimated reading time: 5 minutes

All 32 NFL teams are firmly into the team-building process, and for many, that starts with analyzing the quarterback market and identifying their next starter. After all, Quarterback is everything in today’s NFL, and it’s only getting more important as a position.

Teams can address the position in three key areas — free agency, the 2023 NFL Draft or by trading for a player — so here we will look at how each market looks as we head into what promises to be another fascinating offseason.


BEST FREE AGENTS (RANK AMONG PFF’S TOP 100 FREE AGENTS)
Lamar Jackson (1)
Geno Smith (2)
Derek Carr (10)
Daniel Jones (14)
Jimmy Garoppolo (27)
Jacoby Brissett (33)
Andy Dalton (N/A)
Baker Mayfield (N/A)
Teddy Bridgewater (N/A)
Mike White (N/A)

Several of these players have no chance of actually hitting unrestricted free agency, as their teams are either planning to sign them to a new long-term contract or a shorter-term franchise tag or even to tag-and-trade them if the right offer comes along.

If you remove Jackson, Smith and Jones as real options — though that’s speculation, particularly when it comes to Smith — the cupboard starts to look significantly barer.

Carr becomes the obvious class of the freely available passers and one of maybe two (Garoppolo being the other) who have a real case to start next season. Carr has been a solid starter but ranked 25th in PFF passing grade (65.4) in 2022 and may not be anybody’s first choice as a solution.


PFF’s 2023 NFL free agency rankings offer three-year player grades, updated contract information, in-depth player analysis and PFF’s wins above replacement (WAR) metric for all of the top NFL free agents.

BEST QBS IN THE 2023 NFL DRAFT (PFF BIG BOARD RANK)
Byrce Young, Alabama (1)
Will Levis, Kentucky (4)
C.J. Stroud, Ohio State (5)
Anthony Richardson, Florida (11)
Tanner McKee, Stanford (29)
Hendon Hooker, Tennessee (94)
Aidan O’Connell, Purdue (132)
Jake Haener, Fresno State (144)
Stetson Bennett, Georgia (162)
Clayton Tune, Houston (181)

Four quarterbacks are in the running to be drafted in the top 10, but after that, this class quickly starts to get thin.

Among those top four players will be some huge diversity of evaluation. Young is the top player on PFF’s big board and the owner of by far the best college tape of the group, but his size is going to be virtually unprecedented in the NFL — he is listed at 6-foot, 194 pounds, and judging by photographs of him standing next to other people, he could realistically be closer to 5-foot-10, 180.

How much do teams care that he will be playing at a size the game hasn’t seen since the days when offensive linemen weighed 230 pounds?

If teams do care about size, Kentucky's Will Levis is an obvious anthesis. Levis is 6-foot-3, 232 pounds with a big frame and excellent physical tools. His play is notably worse than Young’s, but so was his supporting cast, especially in 2022. C.J. Stroud from Ohio State also stands 6-foot-3 but is much slighter at around 215 pounds.

Florida's Anthony Richardson presents the real x-factor in this draft. He owns the best physical tools, he is the best rushing threat and he has the biggest arm, but he is also the furthest away from being a conventional passing quarterback and represents arguably the biggest project. He is a great case study for how emboldened the NFL is by the recent success of quarterbacks with exceptional tools becoming very good NFL players.



BEST QBS AVAILABLE VIA TRADE
Lamar Jackson, Baltimore Ravens
Aaron Rodgers, Green Bay Packers
Justin Fields, Chicago Bears
Trey Lance, San Francisco 49ers
Zach Wilson, New York Jets
Jackson is technically headed for unrestricted free agency, but there is virtually no chance the Ravens allow that to happen. And if he is going to be playing for another team in 2023, it’s because the Ravens slapped the franchise tag on him before trading him.

Jackson and the Ravens haven’t been able to get close on a new contract, and given that he's missed significant game time in back-to-back seasons and that he has a unique playstyle within a unique offense that will likely now change with Baltimore's new offensive coordinator, it’s easy to see why the Ravens would have reservations.

Rodgers is once again the obvious trade prize this offseason and likely represents Plan A for a lot of NFL teams.

After Rodgers, several young quarterbacks could tempt teams. Chicago stumbling into the No. 1 overall pick puts the prospect of trading away Justin Fields on the table. Already halfway through his cheap rookie contract, the Bears still don’t know exactly what they have other than one of the most electrifying athletes in the game.

Brock Purdy‘s success for San Francisco this past season likely puts Trey Lance on the trading block, even with Purdy’s elbow injury. Lance still has immense tools, but he will be a big gamble for any team looking to install him as a starter.

Wilson’s days as a starter are likely over, but he could be an intriguing reclamation project for a team willing to offer him a fresh start.



https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-best-quarterbacks-2023-nfl-draft-2022-free-agency

How does $133 million guaranteed surpass $230 million guaranteed?

The contract total is higher than Watson's, but the guarantees are far lower.

It doesn't and apparently he was insulted by the offer. Analysts have described the $133 million guaranteed money an embarrassment. Lamar's counter-offers to the team have all exceeded Watson's guaranteed $230 guaranteed money.

Mom Math.

j/c...

Saw this on Reddit, pretty funny:

That's funny, yet it might actually materialize.

Maybe we could win the North by default.

The North is becoming a contract battle.

Worst case is Pickett turns out to be really good.

Lamar leaving the Ravens will set them back for years. The Bengals are in their window until control of Burrow is up.

The DW deal could turn out well if he plays to expectations. 2024 ends the first round blues.

This year and next year is about roster management and cap.

Right now the most important person in the Browns organization is Andrew Berry. Players have to play. But roster management over the next four years will determine if we can win a Super Bowl with DW.

I like Berry and believe in him. I do not expect perfection. But he has to deliver talent to this roster. That means both in free agency, the draft, and trades if made. His record so far has been mixed results. Berry is a bright guy and a hard worker. He knows the responsibilities of his job and his success is critical to the success of the Browns.

After watching this team regress over the past two years in the win column, anyone who believes that the Haslams had a "Master Plan", it speaks volumes. I've never heard a desperation move described as a "Master Plan" before. No wonder you found it to be funny.

Once again, reading is hard.

You need to get to work on that.

Lamar Jackson draws support from Deshaun Watson's agent amid contract dispute with Ravens

ESPN recently reported that Lamar Jackson wants a fully guaranteed deal, similar to Deshaun Watson’s five-year, $230 million contract with the Cleveland Browns. Watson’s agent, David Mulugheta, weighed in on social media and offered support to Jackson.

“… and @Lj_era8 deserves every guaranteed dollar he’s asking for!” Mulugheta said.

Lamar Jackson’s future with the Baltimore Ravens is one of the most intriguing storylines to watch in the NFL this offseason. ESPN noted that all of Jackson’s counter-offers have been north of $230 million, with all of it guaranteed. In September, the Ravens offered Jackson a $250 million contract with $133 million of it guaranteed and he turned them down.

Baltimore recently hired new offensive coordinator Todd Monken, who was asked about Jackson during his introductory press conference.

“He’s got an elite skillset. It’s obvious when you watch it on film,” Monken said at his introductory press conference. “I mean, the things he can do with the football and the plays that he makes. I think he’s underrated as a passer — I think so — in terms of his ability to make plays and throw it down the field.

“So, you’ve all seen it. I mean, I’m like you, I’m no different than you — I watch what you guys watch. And it’s pretty amazing.”

Jackson comes off a 2022 season in which he threw 17 passing touchdowns and seven interceptions along with 2,242 passing yards. He rushed for 764 yards and touchdowns. Jackson missed five regular-season games and the team's Wild Card loss in the playoffs with a knee injury. NFL Network’s Tom Pelissero noted a trade could also be on the table for the former Louisville star and Heisman Trophy winner.

"If the sides don't come to terms on a long-term deal before the March 7 tag deadline, the likelihood is still that Jackson plays in Baltimore," Rapoport explained in a report on NFL.com."Yet there are multiple ways Jackson could end up playing elsewhere in 2023. The Ravens could tag Jackson and explore options for a trade, with surely no shortage of suitors for one of the NFL's most dynamic talents. Jackson would effectively have veto power over his destination, since he'd need to sign the franchise tender to complete the deal and any team giving up the level of compensation would want to work out a contract."

In his five-year career in Baltimore, Jackson has thrown for 12,209 passing yards with 101 touchdowns and 38 interceptions. He rushed for 4,437 yards and 24 touchdowns. He was unanimously voted the league MVP in 2019.

Jackson, the No. 9 dual-threat quarterback in the 2015 class and a four-star prospect, signed Louisville and logged a monstrous career that ended with his No. 8 jersey retired with a spot in Louisville's Ring of Honor.

https://247sports.com/college/ohio-...fTZtK0EXGWwiryzGzEVthkNeg3ddFMj-n7X2p06U

Just a glimpse of what future contract negotiations with watson may look like by listening to his agent.

Depending on what Jackson, Herbert, and Burrow combined with Rodgers if traded and Carr get on their deals - I would not be a least bit surprised that if Watson has an elite year (whether the team wins or not), that he will attempt to hold out in 2024 or 2025 for a new more expensive deal, especially if the Browns have to start cutting players due to the cap that he deems as important. I hope Berry has a plan for this because I see it a coming without a doubt. IMHO, that's the problem when you wish for other teams to sign their QB's to mega deals. Your own franchise QB isn't going to allow that for long if he thinks he's better. JMHO, buyer beware on what you wish for on the Jackson, Burrow, and Herbert fronts.

Watson is not part of the QB Carousel. There is a Watson thread and plenty of other threads where the Salary Cap is being talked about ad-nauseum. Please, can you two not hijack this thread? Thanks.

Says the all-time hijacker of every thread. Waston is absolutely a part of the QB carousel (as the thread title denotes) because his contract and salary is spurring on some of the moves that may take place, particularly with Jackson. Excuse me if you want to police the post to only allow the topics you feel are relevant. Again, as per always, you are the hijacker of the post, just you being you!

Never said he'd be traded this year or a FA, a figment of your imagination and just another ploy to control the agenda. Watson's contract and salary absolutely has a bearing on the QB Carousel whether you approve or don't, just you being you!

If Watson has played well enough in 3 years that we want to extend him, I'm not going to worry too much about what he's asking...

If we don't make a few deep playoff runs with him at QB in the next three years then I hope we cut our losses and move on...

Back to the topic of the thread...

The Lamar situation is obviously huge. Another huge story is that the Jets want Aaron Rodgers. Their owner is on record as saying so. The Jets also brought in Derek Carr last week. They reportedly told him that they think he can be a HOFer if he wins big in New York.

Obviously, Rodgers is a better qb than Carr. The trouble is that Rodgers has not decided if he is even playing next year, although it is hard to believe that he would walk away from that kind of money. We also don't know if he wants to ultimately stay in Green Bay or go somewhere else. His contract is huge. GB would want the farm in return. Rodgers is older and isn't the most dependable guy. Would Rodgers even want to play in the Big Apple market? Some question that. Would Rodgers rather go to the Raiders and reunite w/Adams? Although, I don't think Rodgers and McDaniels personalities are a great match.

So, do the Jets wait on Rodgers and risk losing Carr to a team like New Orleans, Carolina, or Washington? It's a tough decision for them.

Back to the thread topic...

The other thing that is huge is obviously the draft.

This might not be totally accurate as there are always surprised, but the Texans, Colts, and Panthers have all been linked to drafting a QB high in the draft. I think we could probably include Atlanta as a possible candidate. There has also been some recent conversation about the Bears trading Fields and drafting Bryce Young. I think that would be moronic, but who knows. Washington needs a QB, but they are in the 16th slot and that isn't a good spot, even for making a trade w/a team near the top.

There are three QBs in this draft that figure to go in the Top 10. Young, CJ Stroud, and Will Levis. Some have Anthony Richardson rated highly, but he was not very productive in college and would be a developmental guy in my opinion.

I think Chicago stays w/Fields and trades the #1 overall pick to the Cots. They sit at #4 overall, so they are a desirable trading partner. Young seems to be the clear front runner for being that pick, but man, he is tiny. Look at all of Tua's injury and Young is way smaller than Tua.

I think the Texans definitely take a QB at #2. No idea who they value the most of the three.

Carolina is the next in line for a QB, but they sit at #9. Will that 3rd guy fall that far or will they have to move up a few spots to secure their QB? Or, do they settle for Carr provided he is available. Actually, he is available right now and hasn't signed w/anyone yet.

Lot's of intrigue.

He is a qb with a 79 rating on the Browns
Why is he not on the carousel?

He's under contract and will be playing this upcoming season for the Browns.

On another thread, Memphis posted a tweet that the Bears are open to trading the #1 overall pick. That would mean that Fields stays in Chicago. I would say the favorite to move up to #1 is Indy. Houston might sweeten the pot because they don't want Indy or another team like Carolina to jump them and take a qb, provided they are salivating over one of these guys. So, it looks like the #1 overall pick is going to be a qb this year. I don't think that team will need a bridge qb.

I still believe that Jackson will be on the trade market sooner than later. My guess is that the Ravens will never succumb to a guaranteed contract for 4-5 years with Jackson's injury history. JMHO, they'd be stupid if they did guarantee his deal totally. The other problem (I see this with the Browns too) is that there's not an out for the team if things go south for whatever reason. That''s why KCC was so brilliant in basing Mahomes contract after the first 3 years with roster bonuses. KCC has 6 years of zero dead cap if releasing Mahomes and 1 year of around 4.3M. What a brilliant deal and the team doesn't have to carry prorated bonuses (increasing each year) that handcuffs the team. Those roster bonuses can be renegotiated every year too without penalty.

Back to Jackson, I don't believe BAL is going to bend (not in their DNA). It is also my opinion that Jackson won't play under the franchise tag. He's looking for guaranteed security and a 1-year deal with the option of just being tagged again (like Cousins) is not something he'll be willing to accept. Just my opinion but the team that has the picks and cap space to pull off this type of trade is Chicago. They can give up this year's #1 overall, next year's 1st round pick, Fields, and this year's 2nd round pick for Jackson straight up. Then I would expect the Ravens to trade out of the #1 overall slot for as many picks as they can to add to their additional picks they received. The Bears get an older, wiser, and better passer at this stage in Jackson while the Ravens get a cheaper, younger Jackson clone in Fields with a number of draft picks to address their defense which slipped this past year and cash to hit the FA market since Fields is still on his rookie deal.

Former Raiders QB Derek Carr to meet with a 'handful' of teams during the NFL Scouting Combine this week

Published: Feb 27, 2023 at 07:57 PM
Coral Smith



Rapoport: Derek Carr slated to meet with 'a handful of teams' at NFL combine in Indy

Free-agent quarterback Derek Carr will be meeting with a "handful" of teams this week in Indianapolis during the NFL Scouting Combine, NFL Network Insider Ian Rapoport reported, per sources, on Monday during an appearance on NFL Total Access.

On Tuesday morning, Rapoport reported that Carr will have in-person free agent meetings with the Jets, the Saints and the Panthers.

Carr, who was released by the Raiders on Feb. 14 after being benched for the final two games of the 2022 season, has already visited with the Saints and the Jets during his search for his next destination. And now Carr is taking advantage of every team converging during the combine in order to have talks with some other potential options.

Multiple teams are likely to be in the market for a new QB for 2023, but Carr has a time advantage over these other players. While other impending free-agent quarterbacks are required to wait until after the start of free agency on March 15 to sign somewhere, Carr could sign now due to being released by Las Vegas.

While Rapoport added that he expects Carr to sign with a team before then, the 31-year-old quarterback is not expected to be hasty with his decision, as there's still over two weeks before that date. His brother, David Carr, said last week on NFL Network that Derek wanted to do his "due diligence" by visiting as many places as possible to figure out the best landing spot, and suggested it would therefore be a "long process" to make his choice.

Which team he will land with is still up in the air, but it's clear that Carr is fulfilling his desire to take his time and talk with multiple teams to find the ideal fit. And the next step in this process will take him to Indianapolis this week.


https://www.nfl.com/news/former-rai...h-a-handful-of-teams-during-the-nfl-scou

Does this mean they are open to trading Rodgers?

More from Green Bay's GM, Brian Gutekunst talking about Rodgers...



Sounds to me like he is open to the idea of trading him.

Yes.

And they should trade him. I think it best for both parties.

GB needs to trade him. They have to find out if Love can be their guy. Trading Rodgers gives them the freedom to get more weapons and upgrade the team.

Rodgers will play. IMO he is not ready to walk away from the money. In addition like Brady IMO he wants to prove he is still "the man."

With the right team Rodgers can make the playoffs. He is still a great player. Make the playoffs and you have a shot.

I think Rodgers would love to win a Super Bowl and win the MVP again. I have no doubt that he believes he is still the best quarterback in football.

I find most football coaches in high school are incompetent. They view players as pawns and do not take care of them physically. Its all about the win but with a little care they can prevent a lot of the injuries but would have to coach harder - instead they choose the kids to be sacrificed.

Jmhexperience

It appears like the Jets and Raiders are the favorites to trade for Rodgers if he becomes available. I don't think GB would trade him to a NFC team. The Jets have a ton of talent and they would be formidable if they land Rodgers. Kinda sucks for Browns fans.

This seems like the same song and dance the Packers and Rodgers do every offseason. Jordan Love always comes out the loser.

I'll be very surprised if Rodgers is on any team but the Packers next year.

Not saying you're wrong because I have no idea how this will all unfold. But if there is a team who would move on it would be the Packers. Hell they moved on from Favre and he was still a very good QB at the time.

j/c:

Commanders release QB Carson Wentz after one season

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35748616/commanders-cut-qb-carson-wentz-one-season

Rodgers is under contract.

There are outs. But I think it boils down to Rodgers. IMO GB is going to tell him that they would like to trade him.

Rodgers I think will look at the whole picture and agree. If he can work a trade to a team he feels can compete for a SB. He will gladly accept the trade.

The only thing that would shock me is if he retires. I don't see that.

The Bears would have to be complete idiots to make that trade.

Any team that wants Aaron Rogers better expect at best a
1 and done in the playoffs. For all his natural ability
He chokes in the playoffs. He isn't clutch at all when it matters
The most

WOW, not clutch- MVP FOUR times- you good evaluator of talent. He's past his prime- I wouldn't want he or Brady. Mayfield has LOTS of company trying to find an NFL QB job- ....AND, ask any of them and I'm a starter in NFL out of their mouths......LOTS of options this off season.

Wow-Za!

Reports are saying that Baltimore and Lamar are "not close" to getting a deal done. The deadline for slapping the tag on him is Tuesday, March 7th.

Thus, the Ravens are going to have to tag him. Again, there are two types of tags. The Exclusive Tag would guarantee Lamar $45.25 million per year. No other teams would be able to negotiate w/Lamar. The problem is that almost everyone is saying Lamar will be insulted by this tag and will not play under it.

The other tag is the Non-Exclusive Tag. The cost is $32.4 million per year. However, Lamar would be able to negotiate w/other teams. Baltimore's compensation would be two 1st round picks. They would also have the option of matching the contract offer of other teams.

I think the Non-Exclusive tag is the way they go. I did not think that initially. However, that's probably the best option for the Rats after all the crap that's been slung around and all of the animosity that has grown out of these negotiations.

In retrospect, the Ravens would have been wise to get this done long ago. They played cheap and now it is almost certainly going to cost them way more money than they would have had to pay or they lose the face of their franchise.

Oof. NY Giants are kind of stuck between a rock and hard place though. Daboll coached the team to the playoffs with Jones and the fans expect a step forward rather than a step back so it is tough to sell starting over with a new QB.

It would be interesting if NYG and BAL swapped Jones and Jackson.

I agree about the Giants situation. I think the real story is what is happening w/the QB salaries. Hurts is probably going to kill it and only God knows what Burrow and Herbert are going to get next year.

It's just my opinion but I think the owners have realized that the cost of the QB is going to rise. I also believe the owners are going to take a stand against the fully guaranteed contract. With rumors swirling that the NYGiants and Baltimore are considering franchising their QB's, are they sending a message? One might think that because Watson received such a deal that all teams will now buckle. I think the Ravens and Giants will stand pat and at a minimum assign the non-exclusive tag to Jackson so he can see if there's a market out there fully guaranteed 5- or 6-year deal. As a player you can demand the deal, but you have to find someone willing to pay it. We might be seeing the owners taking a stand against the fully guaranteed contract and sending a message with Jackson to the QB's with deals approaching the next couple of years. It's no secret the owners were upset with the deal the Browns gave Watson. This may be their attempt to level the playing field starting with Jackson.

j/c:


Big Quarterback Contracts Are Not the Problem. Salary Cap Management Is

Can NFL teams build a roster around an elite quarterback deal? Debunking the biggest cap space misconception.

ANDREW BRANDTFEB 22, 2023

We are entering the time of year in the Business of Football when many who are not conversant in the area veer into this lane. And for full-time nerds like myself, especially those with experience and expertise, it is frustrating—and sometimes amusing—to see misinformation and misplaced authority, which comes up as frequently as in any area with salary cap and player contracts.

Over the years in this space and others, I have tried to calmly and reasonably counter such misinformation. But there is one theory out there that continues to have some traction, one that makes me shake my head every time I see or am asked about it, one that comes even from pundits who have covered the NFL for years. It is this: NFL teams paying market contracts for top quarterbacks either cannot, or have a very hard time trying to build a Super Bowl–contending team. My unequivocal answer to this is: wrong!


I have been on radio programs in places like Philadelphia, Cincinnati, Baltimore and Los Angeles, where new megacontracts are expected for Jalen Hurts, Joe Burrow, Lamar Jackson and Justin Herbert, respectively. The hosts have the same question: Can our team do what it needs to do now having to “pay” their quarterback? My answer is as definitive as it can possibly be: yes!

Let me be even more clear: This idea is a cop-out, a tired excuse and bulls---. (Is that clear enough?)


Let’s examine.

CBA makes cap management simple
In the 30-year history of the NFL salary cap, it has never been easier to manage for several reasons:

1. The gift of rookie contracts

A primary reason for this is that the collective bargaining agreement (CBA) mandates that all drafted players must sign four-year contracts, and they cannot be renegotiated until the player has played at least three seasons in the NFL. This provision alone gives teams a tremendous head start on managing the cap.

NFL team rosters have varying numbers of players on rookie contracts, but my best estimate is between 50% and 65% of NFL rosters are players under their first NFL contract. Let’s say there are 30 such players on a team’s roster, and we’ll say that, conservatively, each player has a cap charge of $1 million. That is a cumulative cap charge of $30 million for more than half the team.


With the NFL team cap set at $224 million for 2023, that estimate would put every NFL team at $195 million in cap space to pay their 20–25 players not on rookie contracts. Paying a quarterback market value should not be a problem.

2. The rollover

And, even better for teams, the cap is not really $224 million. Also per the CBA, teams are now allowed to roll over unused cap space to create each team’s adjusted cap. Every team in the NFL rolled over some unused 2022 cap space into ’23, from the Browns’ rolling over $27.6 million all the way down to the Rams’ rolling over $400,000. The Browns—while paying one of the biggest contracts in NFL history to their quarterback—are working with far more than $224 million, with an adjusted cap of more than $250 million.


Thus, each team is working with more than the advertised $224 million, plus the advantages the rookie pay system has given them. Again, it is not hard to pay the team’s most important player a market contract with all of this cap room.

3. The minimum spend

I have written before about the CBA’s minimum spending requirements for teams. While there are deficiencies I have mentioned, including thresholds that are too low in percentage of spending (89% of cap) and time for calculation (over three years), there are thresholds nonetheless. Teams must spend, and with so many rookie contracts, there are obvious targets for where their spending will be: most obviously the quarterback.

Take a team like the Bears, sitting currently with almost $100 million of available cap space. They have virtually no top-of-market veteran contracts in their roster. Indeed, were their CBA minimum spending requirements judged annually rather than over three years, they would not meet the minimum this year. They will have to spend liberally in the next year (or couple of years) to meet the minimum thresholds; Chicago will, almost by necessity, have to give Justin Fields a megacontract next year, just to pay someone on their roster.


Should teams have to spend on someone, it might as well be their quarterback.

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Chicago Bears quarterback Justin Fields throws a pass
Justin Fields’s rookie contract with the Bears is a fully guaranteed, four-year deal worth $18.8 million.

Mike Dinovo/USA TODAY Sports

Cap management 101
The most basic thing that people need to understand about the salary cap—in any sport—is that cap and cash are different.

Cap is just accounting. It is not the same as money. Cash is real; it is what teams and agents truly do and should care about.


There are many ways to manage cap. In my decade at the Packers managing their cap, I preferred a “pay as you go” approach: trying to match cash and cap as much as possible. For example, if I were paying a player $10 million in the first year of his contract, I would try to load as close to $10 million in cap as possible. I would also try to stay away from signing bonuses, which are (1) prorated over the life of the contract for cap purposes, and (2) give the player more protection in case of default. (Salary, roster bonuses and workout bonuses are ways to load in cash instead to match cap.) The “pay as you go” strategy works to preserve cap flexibility in the future if, inevitably, contracts do not work out, avoiding future heavy nonroster charges, especially at quarterback.


Cash over cap

In recent years, many teams (including the Packers) have chosen a less-conservative cap-management strategy, with liberal use of signing bonus proration. They are choosing a high “cash over cap” strategy early in the contract, loading significantly more cash than cap and worrying about the cap impact at some later date. Again, to each his own, but it’s important to note for this current discussion.

With the cash over cap strategy, teams are paying quarterbacks up to tens of millions more in cash in the first year of their contracts, allowing for ultimate flexibility now and worrying about the future later.

For example, the Rams extended Matthew Stafford last year with a $60 million signing bonus, prorated over the five years of the extension. Stafford’s cash in 2022, on that bonus alone, was $60 million. Stafford’s cap charge on that bonus in ’22 (and ’23, ’24, ’25 and ’26) was $12 million. In other words, Stafford was $48 million cash over cap in ’22. My sense is all of these upcoming contracts—Hurts, Burrow, Herbert and more—will have significant cash over cap value early on, to preserve ultimate team-building flexibility for the near future. The problem usually comes with other parts of the roster.


The sludge

But paying a star quarterback $40 million is not what gets teams in trouble—what does is all the sludge on their cap beyond the cash that is going out. In the Stafford example, his cap charge now has an additional $12 million on each of the upcoming four years, which would be accelerated onto the Rams’ cap if he retires or is traded or released in that time. And, of course, that is on top of the already-existing proration he had coming into that extension.

If there is a separation between the Packers and Aaron Rodgers this year, the team will incur a cap charge of more than $40 million for Rodgers even while he is no longer there. That will match the cap charge the Falcons had on Matt Ryan this past year while he played for the Colts, and surpass the $34 million cap charge that the Eagles had on Carson Wentz in 2021 while he (also) played for the Colts.


Paying a top quarterback (cash) is not the issue; dealing with the leftover (cap) accounting in the future is much more the problem.

Teams can absolutely have large contracts with their top quarterback and simultaneously keep a contending team around them. It requires some expertise in cap management to deal with the detritus if things don’t work out later on, but as I always say: It doesn’t take a cap guru to push out cap problems for another day; it takes a cap guru to make sure a team doesn’t have to do that at all.

NFL teams have plenty of the two things they need to pay a top quarterback and to build a roster around them: cash and cap.

Every team is presently worth more than $2 billion and receives a check from the league worth $400 million before it even turns the lights on. Teams have plenty of cash. And cap room—even with some squandering on bad contracts—is always available. Again, with a good chunk of NFL rosters full of fixed and reasonable rookie contracts, it has never been easier to pay star players.


Don’t fall for the “you can’t build a contending team by paying a top quarterback” trope. You’re better than that.


https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/02/22/top-quarterback-contracts-salary-cap-misconception-space

As we have seen, even if these QB's refuse to play, sit out and/or have serious character concerns, there will be some teams desperate enough to back up the Brinks truck for them.

Forget the Wonderlic nonsense.

My hope is that Berry is looking deep into these prospects' eyes and weeding out the cheesy ones.

Cheesy ones = boneheads, I guess - the ones that will plague us and cost us too much money for the next 3 years.

Jimmy Johnson stated, don't draft a dumb guy- hit me in head with two by four if I ever do it again...advice to Bill B....I agree. Our LT scored a 9 on test first go around. He hasn't excelled. And looks lost at times. Duh! Oakland/ Russell and Browns/ Manziel come to mind when falling in love to easily is rated. Dumb drafts.

Did I miss something? I'm not sure how this topic came up on this thread? Not being snarky. Just confused.

Thread subject- QB carousel- my point is/was- don't draft a dumb one- I'd hate to detail- "“Zoom Change Right Flop 20 ‘X’ Spot FB Sway”-you can throw a great ball with touch, but can you call, understand, and do right progression under pressure.

But the cap?! THE CAP!!!!

This signing alone may put NO at the top of the NFC South considering the status of the other three teams and their current QB situations.

Peace, Jameis.

Yeah, less than half of the guaranteed money means nothing to some trying to make a point that really doesn't exist here. 100 mil. guaranteed verses 230 mil. guaranteed. But go ahead and pretend that's the same thing.

No team has been in more cap trouble than New Orleans and that has been true for quite some time now. Yet, we have two posters talking about the impending Cap Apocalypse every single day on this forum. Refusing to acknowledge that the cap can't be manipulated is idiocy.

Yikes!

Pretending that the bill won't come due is idiocy.

Acting like the bill is a giant iceberg and Berry is screaming "full speed ahead!" is even dumber.

The numbers speak for themselves. I thought math was obvious. Guess not.

Catching up here...who said the cap cannot be manipulated?

I'd like to know the answer to that question too.

Pit...

Does Winston go back to Tampa Bay?

I don't think Winston returns to NO. He was listed as a "likely cap casualty" in the link I posted above about quarterbacks in that division.

right. that's why I asked about Tampa Bay... where he started his career.

Are people playing games? If no one is claiming that the cap can't be manipulated, then it's time to stop talking about it ad nauseum on multiple threads daily.

I bet that most of the board believes that Berry and company are far more capable of manipulating the cap than most and certainly way more than anyone on this board. I question Berry's drafts, but trying to pretend he isn't smart enough to manipulate the cap is deceptive and ignorant.

I'm sorry. I misread your post. I couldn't believe what WSU asked. Well, I could because it is WSU. LOL But anyone who has been reading this board knows that there are a couple of posters speaking about the impending doom of the salary cap on multiple threads several times a day.

Anyway, I apologize. I have no idea if TB would want him back. I think there might be some bad feelings there, but I am not positive about that.

all good! no worries

j/c...



One year at home with that herd of kids and Rivers wants back in the game.

Good for him. Glad he found new life to his career.

Good for Geno. I like redemption stories. The other two guys can go away now. I like both Brady and Rivers, but it's time. Don't tarnish your reps.

Me too.

Wow. He's going to make almost 3 times the amount of his entire career earnings next year. $52 million is up there. Maybe the Browns were not as dumb as many people have suggested?

So...you can't believe when someone wants to know who's opinion you are attempting to trash? Nah...you lied...maybe embellished (but your track record won't allow for that slack). You can't name ONE PERSON who has claimed that the cap cannot be manipulated. Don't run hide after calling someone out.

There is "potential" gloom and doom with the way the cap is being manipulated. No one - not even steve - is proclaiming such manipulation to be the end of the world...but it IS a thing. Just like the "potential" of Njoku is a thing on his contract...Schwartz being a legit NFL player...JOK being a true LB. It's part of the game and affects how we can get/attract/keep players. Perhaps you just skip reading what steve has to say on the subject and stop being so intimidated by his knowledge. That'd be nice.

happy for Geno!

Perhaps you should stop reading my posts. All you offer to this board are personal attacks.

Back to football and away from WSU's personality police crap.



If the Ravens put the Non-Exclusive tag on Lamar, I believe he will be gone. Some team will give up two first round picks and pay the guaranteed money that Lamar wants.

If they put the Exclusive tag on him, it gives them more time to try and negotiate a new contract. Then again, they've had plenty of time to get this done. I think their principals have botched these negotiations.

Actually that's not true. If you manipulate the cap it's only kicking the can down the road. It comes to the point you will be paying players after they're already gone. And as of now those numbers keep rising. The numbers that speak for themselves are guaranteed numbers that must be paid. Dead cap space that must be paid.

And as much as people keep carrying on about how the cap will keep rising to cover those costs, what they fail to mention is that as the cap rises, so will players salaries.

It reminds me of people who pay the minimum balance on their credit so they can buy more things pretending that the bill won't come due. It always catches up to them. So too will this.

It feels like it is destined to happen.

I thought it might be a real thing once I saw that Carr signed w/NO yesterday.

It will be real interesting to see if Lamar leaves Baltimore. I love watching him play.

j/c...

Let the bidding begin.

Jacoby Brissett SZN.

Sashi still helping the Browns.

Anyone know how the 2 first round picks works? For example, could Detroit give Baltimore 18 this year and their first next year for Lamar? Or would they have to give 6 (to DET via LAR) and 18 this year?

Well, well, well.

Adios Baltimore.

More than one team will step up to the plate with an opening bid of two first rounders.

I know Baltimore gets to match. What I don't know is what happens if a team offers three first rounders? I am not sure if it is a pure auction?
I would think that it is highest bidder and then Baltimore gets a chance to match.

It sure feels like he is gone.

Not so fast amigo. IMHO, and verified as a possibility on ESPN, the owners in the NFL might be taking a stand to stop the fully guaranteed deal. Jackson will definitely get offers but I don't believe any of the offers will be fully guaranteed. If Jackson accepts any of those deals without the guarantee, the Ravens will match unless it's crazy money like 55M-60M per season. Twitter is already reporting that Atlanta has said they will not be part of the sweepstakes so that's the top money team in need of a QB bailing. The Raiders don't have the money or the type of coach for Jackson.

It's cap cleaning week so that may have a play if some team clears enough cap for Jackson, but I think he might be in for a rude awakening and still wearing purple.

Ditto your comments, I think Jackson gets a wake up- reality, he's not a great passer and he's been hurt TWO seasons in a row. I think their GM did great job- he could easily sign for A LOT LESS money than he was originally offered. Boo Hoo, multi- millionaire. Go Browns!!!

My first thought was "collusion." So, I looked. This took 1 second to find.

Does the Lamar Jackson discussion rise to the level of collusion?

Doug Farrar
March 7, 2023 6:15 pm ET

It is, to say the least, unusual for any NFL team to say publicly that it is uninterested in a potential free agent or tradable player. It is even more unusual (try, this never happens) for multiple teams to make those kinds of statements.

But in the case of Lamar Jackson, who received the non-exclusive franchise tag from the Baltimore Ravens on Tuesday, that appears to be where we are.

The Atlanta Falcons…

The Atlanta Falcons social media team has been told to boost the report they are not in on Lamar Jackson.

Take that as you will 🤷‍♀️ pic.twitter.com/qqpKRHL43R

— PlayerProfiler (@rotounderworld) March 7, 2023

…the Miami Dolphins…

The Miami Dolphins say they are OUT on Lamar Jackson

“Mike fully believes Tua is the perfect fit for his system.” (via @JeffDarlington)

Alrighty then. pic.twitter.com/34Dl6Q08PP

— PlayerProfiler (@rotounderworld) March 7, 2023

…and the Carolina Panthers…

Scott Fitterer certainly will discuss and has discussed Lamar Jackson b/c that's what he does.
But Panthers are not expected to be in the Jackson market, per league sources.

— Joe Person (@josephperson) March 7, 2023

…are among those teams who have come right out and made it clear that they would and will not be negotiating with the Ravens for a trade that would secure Jackson’s services.

It certainly has some other players around the league, current and former, wondering what’s going on.

When is the last time a league MVP was treated so disrespectfully?? I feel some kind of way about it – And don’t tell me what was offered to him, show me!!!

— Tyrann Mathieu (@Mathieu_Era) March 7, 2023

Why are all of these teams so publicly “out” on Lamar Jackson, an MVP winner in his prime at the most important position in the entire NFL?

What am I missing here?

— JJ Watt (@JJWatt) March 7, 2023

Lamar Jackson is a Unanimous MVP, has lead the NFL in Passing Touchdowns, is 26 years old, is 45-16 as a starter and All the QB needy teams are saying they aren’t interested. Don’t smell right to me.

— Robert Griffin III (@RGIII) March 7, 2023

Of course, all NFL teams have the right to deny any interest in Jackson for legitimate reasons. Maybe he’s not the kind of quarterback they want. Maybe the contract he’s going to get after a team gives up two first-round picks to get him on their roster is too rich. That’s all legitimate. And this could all be a smokescreen.

But when you piece together the parts here, it starts to look like at least the edges of what appears to be something in the neighborhood of collusion.

The dictionary definition of collusion is “A secret or illegal cooperation or conspiracy, especially in order to cheat or deceive others.” In the matter of the right of any individual to fairly test the free market based on whatever constraints he or she may have, collusion blocks the lanes and makes things patently unfair.

In Jackson’s case, he’s made it clear, per reports, that he would like the same kind of fully guaranteed contract the Browns gave Deshaun Watson after acquiring him via trade from the Texans. The hue and cry from other teams was based far less on Watson’s alleged off-field crimes than it was about the horrifying precedent it set in the minds of 31 other team owners.

Watson’s deal is quite the historical albatross, and it would be so were Watson a five-time MVP with a squeaky-clean history. It is a five-year, $230 million contract, and while the annual cap hits ($54,993 million) are reasonable for a player of Watson’s skill if he still has it, the dead cap numbers are ungodly bad. Were the Browns to release Watson in the 2023 league year, they would take a dead cap charge of $219,972 million. In 2024, that “drops” to $164,979 million, in 2025, it’s still $109,986 million, and only in the last year of the deal does the dead cap match the live cap charge.

No other team owner wants to be put in this position. Now, for this to rise to the level of collision, it would have to be proven that a cabal of owners and executives got together and… well, colluded to ensure that Jackson’s negotiating power would be limited beyond and below the purview of the Collective Bargaining Agreement. This is why collusion is generally difficult to impossible to prove — unless you’ve got texts, e-mails, voicemails, Slack messages, or Twitter DMs in which one owner says to other owners, “Hey, let’s made an example of Lamar Jackson,” what you’re bringing to the table falls behind the burden of proof.

Not everyone has the hubris of a Jon Gruden, who believed himself to be bulletproof to the extent that he could send racist, sexist, and homophobic e-mails to his buddies in the league. That those e-mails became public during multiple investigations of Washington Commanders owner Dan Snyder (another league stalwart who believes himself beyond serios consequences, and he’s been right in that regard for a long time), put Gruden in the vise.

That said, the NFL is far from clean when it comes to collusion. The owners colluded to ban Black players from the league from 1934 through 1946. And there have been multiple instances in which those running various professional football leagues have acted in concert (or have been accused of acting in concert) to artificially limit the earning power of the players who make those leagues go.

Oh, and there’s that whole Colin Kaepernick thing.

When you get this much money involved, and a rule-breaker of a deal like the Deshaun Watson contract happens, it is not outside the realm of possibility that a group of the highest-placed people in the NFL might have a little discussion about it. As has been said, such things are somewhere between difficult and impossible to prove.

But as the Lamar Jackson story pushes forward, we should keep a sharp eye on what is said — and what is not done.

https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2023/03/07/lamar-jackson-franchise-tag-nfl-free-agency/

If I am remembering correctly, it has to be your own picks. For illustration:
Should we want to make an offer to Lamar, we couldn't because we don't have a 1st round pick.
Even if we traded to get somebody else's 1st round pick, we couldn't offer Lamar a contract.
The only way we could get him would be for us to agree to a trade with Baltimore.

What I would do if I wanted Jackson and I was one of those teams with a top 10 this year is negotiate wiht Lamar but not sign the contract until after this year's draft presuming that with Jackson we wouldn't be drafting that high the next 2 years.

This is weird.

Watson is up for auction and a bunch of teams jump.

Now Lamar and teams say No?

I found it strange as well so many teams have said they're uninterested.... I guess if they have people asking and they are just responding? but seems strange..

only one I get is Miami... I can see them saying no in support of Tua.... of course there are Brady rumors of him going there, so who knows... crazy...

Right about Miami. Also, they don't even have the required compensation to make the trade. They gave up a 1st for T. Hill last year.

Another thing to consider is how many owners have the cash on hand to put it in an escrow account even if they wanted to meet Jackson's contract demands?

Snyder does not.
Davis does not.
Blank and Tepper both balked at Watson guaranteed dollar amount demands. Doing the same at Jackson's contract demands?

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article269018672.html

It will be really interesting to see the contracts Herbert and even more so, Burrow, sign when the time arrives.

We'll see real fast if the league values Lamar more than DW. Lamar has to be thinking DW-style auction Baby! You know he and his mom are going to get him paid somehow.

Posted before seeing all the collusion posts. Hmmm. I don't recall this many teams ever saying they are out as soon as the news breaks. You know damn well it's due to the Watson deal. No ifs ands or buts about it.

I think the issue we have no knowledge of is what the other teams were offering for Watson. I can almost guarantee you that the other teams were not offering the fully guaranteed contract to Watson. You would have to be pretty naive to believe they did considering the backlash the Browns received for giving Watson that deal. Fast forward to today where in reverse, it's reported that Jackson is demanding a fully guaranteed deal. Some may say it's collusion but as detailed above - almost impossible to prove. The NFL is the greatest game around because of the rules that they have. The NFL owners don't want nothing to do with dealing with contracts like the NBA or MLB. Once they let Jackson in with a fully guaranteed deal the doors will swing open for all positions. No QB before or since up to now has received a fully guaranteed contract like Watson received. There's no sense in even talking with Jackson if his starting point is a fully guaranteed contract. That's why all the teams are expressing no interest and the message will be loud and clear I believe. JMHO, Jackson will be back with the Ravens on a big deal after he sees he has overpriced his market value.

That's about where I'm at.

Watching the whole "collusion!" narrative is rather humorous.

First, it's unprovable.

Second, it's basically saying Lamar deserves a fully guaranteed contract just because Watson got one.

Third, the NFLPA made it's bed when they filed a collusion grievance months ago... based on contracts that were signed last season. Citing that there was collusion because Russ Wilson and Aaron Donald weren't granted guaranteed contracts. Setting the narrative for a media frenzy, as if that will make the guys writing the checks bend over and "take one for the team". 🤣

So what, they should be standing in line now to pony up 230+ so people don't think they're corrupt?

Nice post! The owners are obviously taking a stand to fix the mess started in Cleveland. Like the article by Doug Farrar on March 7, 2023 6:15 pm ET stated above:

Watson’s deal is quite the historical albatross, and it would be so were Watson a five-time MVP with a squeaky-clean history. It is a five-year, $230 million contract, and while the annual cap hits ($54,993 million) are reasonable for a player of Watson’s skill if he still has it, the dead cap numbers are ungodly bad. Were the Browns to release Watson in the 2023 league year, they would take a dead cap charge of $219,972 million. In 2024, that “drops” to $164,979 million, in 2025, it’s still $109,986 million, and only in the last year of the deal does the dead cap match the live cap charge.

No other team owner wants to be put in this position. Now, for this to rise to the level of collision, it would have to be proven that a cabal of owners and executives got together and… well, colluded to ensure that Jackson’s negotiating power would be limited beyond and below the purview of the Collective Bargaining Agreement. This is why collusion is generally difficult to impossible to prove — unless you’ve got texts, e-mails, voicemails, Slack messages, or Twitter DMs in which one owner says to other owners, “Hey, let’s made an example of Lamar Jackson,” what you’re bringing to the table falls behind the burden of proof.

That's the whole thing. I see both sides. And I'm wondering how much the "STAR QBs" can command before they get the Kaepernick treatment. I could see Lamar and his mom getting scared and taking the deal, but these other guys aren't necessarily in the same boat. If I'm Burrow, I want mine guaranteed.

This. There is not a world where a QB injured two years in a row and has surpassed 3,000 passing yards once in his career was going to get a Watson-like contract that was already a complete outlier.

Jackson's aim should be to get more 'guaranteed at signing' than Russel Wilson. If he had an agent, he would likely advise him of this. The contract the Ravens offered Jackson was $133M guaranteed at signing. This would have put him at the second highest guaranteed money regardless of possible career ending injury in the NFL behind Watson. Wilson had $124M guaranteed at signing.

In one sense, he's seemingly making foolish financial decisions, on the other, he's making one hell of a bet on himself and his health. I can respect him banking on himself.

As I said a while ago: Lamar was in the driver's seat. It's just that he didn't have control of the wheel, the gas pedal, or the brakes. He may come out smelling like a rose, but he may not. And I can't feel sorry for anyone that is looking at some $30 million plus contract for one year.

Lamar will be out of the league in 3-5 years and everyone knows it.

His knees and ankles are getting the OBJ special in the last 2 years and ended up on IR.

Oct 30, 2015 Non-NFL Pedal Ankle Sprain/Pull Unspecified Grade 1 Jackson missed 1 game with an ankle injury as a freshman at Louisville.
Oct 7, 2020 NFL Knee Patella Sprain Jackson missed Ravens' practice ahead of the Week 5 game vs. the Bengals due to a knee injury. He was cleared to play that game
Jan 16, 2021 NFL Head Cranial Concussion Grade 1 Jackson suffered a concussion on the last play of the third quarter during the divisional-round playoff game at Buffalo.
Sep 29, 2021 NFL Back Lower Lumbar Sprain/Pull Unspecified Grade 1 Jackson managed to play in Week 4 against the Broncos, despite not practicing with a back injury.
Dec 12, 2021 NFL Pedal Ankle Sprain Grade 2 Jackson suffered an ankle sprain in Week 14's loss to the Browns. He missed the rest of the season
Dec 4, 2022 NFL Knee PCL Sprain Grade 2 Jackson missed the final 6 games, including the Wild Card matchup with Cincinnati.


Availability is the best Ability.

Every team that bid on DW had to agree to 3 first rounders. The four teams that submitted bids had to bid at least that.

That's not the part of the conversation this refers too. No one knows what the other teams were offering as compensation. Considering how quickly Watson went from a "no" to the Browns to a "yes," one could assume that the only fully guaranteed deal presented was from the Browns. When you're paying a 100M more in guaranteed money than any other team is for an individual player you have accepted an unnecessary risk and an act of desperation. Upgrading the QB position was a good move by the Browns. On paper it looks like the Browns will be a better team with Watson. Now we need to see that actually transpire on the field. However, saying all that doesn't mean the Browns made a good deal because they didn't. Watson may be considered elite but he's not a 100M more elite than the other elite QB's in the NFL.

If the consensus is that Watson is twice as good as any other elite QB then shouldn't the expectations be that he performs twice as good? That's why I'm so disappointed in his performance this year. The Browns paid him 46M in guaranteed money for that product he delivered on the field. The Browns didn't get their money's worth and I as a fan was cheated for what he was paid and showed on the field. If you want the historically top money, then I as a fan should expect nothing less than a top elite performance every time he steps on the field for that cost. I have not seen that performance yet.

I'm with you and Milk. I'm not buying the Jackson collusion yet. I get he wants a Watson-like contract in the form of guaranteed dollars but I don't think the there is any consistent proof of collusion. The minute an owner wants a QB long-term, and feels it's not that risk adverse , they will fork over the money. With Jackson, I think the initial concerns about his game are coming to fruition and growing louder. He has only thrown over 3000 yards in one season out of five so far, injured the past two seasons because of main asset (legs), and hasn't elevated his rec. corp. at all. I guess the last point could be a debate as to whether it's his fault or the lack of talent (outside M. Andrews).

I also think there could be some Joe Flacco syndrome going on with giving a large deal to a QB. I do think Baltimore wants Jackson to come back, but I understand the concerns.

And at least one wanted to be able to match/counter offer the guaranteed money.

Except that no one knows who that team was and was only speculation in the press. Saying a team would have or wanted to is not the same as actually doing it. If you lose out on the sweepstakes, what do you expect a losing team is to say? Plus, I find it difficult to believe that if there was another team actually willing to match or counteroffer with a sweeter deal that Watson wouldn't have listened. No one could sell me on the fact that a better deal was out there, and Watson ignored/rejected it.

I am curious why some people oppose guaranteed money so vigorously? Contracts are guaranteed in the NBA, MLB, and the NHL. From the player's perspective, what good is a large contract where a lot of the money is back-loaded?

The NFL makes a ton of money. People tune in to watch the players play. They don't care about the owners. Other than this board, people don't come together to talk about the salary cap. People watch and talk about football because of the players. Yet, folks want to throw their support towards a group of owners that continually proven to be overly greedy, discriminatory, and amoral characters.

I don't think anyone is under the illusion that the $230 guaranteed money didn't close the deal.

The six game performance last season?

Your perspective is based upon your expectations and the money paid to him.

The money is in line annually. IMO the guarantee is what I would want as a player. NFL is the owners. Their wants will never match the players.

If you were expecting a Super Bowl in 2022 or for DW to step on the field after 11 games played in the season and 700 plus days away from playing a game.
And then to play like he started the season and no games were missed.

Maybe the expectations were out of line.

The day DW was signed. I knew it would be a watershed moment.

The players have wanted guaranteed money for years. The owners blocked them for obvious reasons. None want to put all that money into escrow.

I back the players completely. What is a contract without it being guaranteed? That is what a contract should be. I will pay you this amount while you work for this company.

So, Atlanta, Carolina, Washington starving at quarterback. All say not interested immediately after the announced franchise tag? When under no pressure or time element to say anything?

Lamar knows this is BS. He wants break the owners lock on salaries.

This is far from over no matter what goes down with Lamar.

I respectfully disagree with your opinion. The players are but a moment in time. Great players come and go but the game continues. Approximately 30% of every NFL roster turns over every year. The player will never be bigger than the game. Luck replaced Manning, Rodgers replaced Farve, Brady replaced Bledsoe, Young replaced Montana, and Kosar replaced Sipe. The fans still come to the games and the TV deals continue to rise. Even more so, it looks like Love will be replacing Rodgers, but you know what - the Packers will still be playing in 2023 and the stadium will be full.

So, I disagree with you because if for example, Watson drops dead today, the Browns will still field a team, the stadium will be full, and a new star will arise sooner than later. Fans support teams and the current players but the players are always changing - the teams do not. It's not support thrown toward owners as much as the players are not bigger than the game. The day that happens is the day the NFL collapses from the #1 sports business entity it is.

I don't think people are opposing players' well-being in favor of the wishes of unscrupulous owners. I think we're, more or less, comparing one contract that is waay overpriced (Watson) with another player's, and his union's, demands. Nobody deserves something just because someone else got it. As much as many want the world to work this way, it's simply never going to come to pass. Watson got a guaranteed contract because the stars aligned with a team that was in total desperation after their QB gave them the bird... in the perfect storm of a bidding war. I don't think this is a mystery, everyone watched it happen.

However, the NFLPA is using this as some outrageous impetus for "fully guaranteed contracts for all". And thus, will use Lamar as the poster child for "see, no fair!!".

There are reasons why this is hard to expect or accomplish...

Injuries in the NFL happen at ten times the pace of every other sport (yes, including Hockey).

The shortest season of all the other sports is 81 games, which usually means plenty of time for a team to recover from players' injuries... The most mundane of injuries in the NFL commonly cause players to miss 15-25% of his team's games. And the amount of devastating injuries is off the charts by comparison. Hell, anyone considering Lamar right now is addressing injury history at the very top of the conversation.

The league has to (and will) change the rules regarding "escrow" before this can come to pass. Only a few owners can pony-up 250M and lock it in a bank account. This is the reason the rest of the owners are mad at Haslam. It is an unfair advantage and creates an unlevel playing field. What is the total obligation to players on our roster? Close to 1B? I bet that's not far off. I bet that number would eliminate 75% of the owners in the league. That kind of liquidity is pretty uncommon.

And then... the league would have to offer some kind of salary cap insurance to owners so that they can spend above the cap when losing players to catastrophic injuries or reaching a certain threshold in regard to total injuries. So that they don't have to stare down the barrel of an ACL and wonder how they will replace a Cadillac with a beat-up Pinto.


jmo, and I'm not for or against guarantees on contracts. I just think we have a dude and his mom parading around like "what about Deshaun?" And it seems more like a cartoon than reality TV... for a bunch of reasons.

One last thing on my mind that no one seems to be talking about.

I've said over and over the last 2+ years that it seemed that Baltimore was going to "chew him up, spit him out, see what's left at the end". That's exactly what we just watched. By doing that, they brought out the best in Lamar as a dynamic player... but not exactly an elite QB.

All that abuse, running (at minimum) ten times per game? That was fine at 15M per year... can the next team afford that approach at 55M?? Or will they now see themself trying to fit a square peg into a round hole?

I think a lot of the alleged lack of interest in Lamar is that the legal tampering period isn't until the 13th with Free Agency officially starting the 15th.

Why not make a 4-5 year yearly guarantee, with a 50% buyout if released before the end.

IE: 30 mil/yr for 5 years, released after the 2nd year, to the player would be guarantee 30mx2 + 15m

Or something like that, so you're not locked into years if the player is a bust, but the player gets something if released, and can go elsewhere.

I get there are "reasons" for not guaranteeing contracts, but I think it's delusional to think that NFL owners are not manipulative and exploitive. I also don't think Lamar's mom is all that involved anymore w/the negotiations.

I am not even declaring that this is collusion, but it was my first thought. And I simply typed in "NFL collusion" and the hits were immediate and numerous. Also, I believe that it only took the Falcons 16 minutes to say they were not interested. I do agree w/your earlier claim that you can't prove there is collusion. On the other hand, that makes it easier to get away with. I think that there is no doubt that the NFL owners have refused to give guaranteed contracts going all the way back to the 60s and 70s. They will fight this tooth and nail.

With that said, I do think that teams are reluctant to do Baltimore's contract for them. I also think that it's early in the process. Free agency has not even started yet. But, think about this for just a minute. Washington's QB is Josh Howell and Atlanta's is Desmond Ridder. And they have absolutely no interested in Lamar at all? LOL

Good point. I should have added that to my last post.

I'm curious what the Commanders' free agency will look like. With Snyder potentially on the outs, where's the money coming from? I wonder if we could see movement on the team's potential sale with FA as a de facto deadline to spur action.

I don't know the answer to that, but it's a great question and an interesting topic.

If we didn't give DW the deal he got I'm sure one of the other 3 teams that were interested would have. We did it so we're the bad guys now. It's that simple.

When you look at the exclusive franchise.

It is the average of the highest paid at the position.

After signing bonus DW is at $46.

Top five qb salary"

Rodgers - $50.3
Wilson - $49
Murray - $46.1
Watson - $46
Mahomes - $45

Daniel Jones just got $40

So, IMO DW is fair market value.

His contract is going to get restructured.

It is because of injury the players want the guaranteed money and the owners do not.

In the end it is an old battle: Owners vs Union.

They said they weren't given the opportunity to match the offer, not that they would. First one would have to question how many, if any of those NFL owners could just cough up 230 million and put it in a bank account on a moments notice.

Here's the bottom line in all of this. There are uber rich owners and some not so uber rich owners.

Just like with baseball owners. This unprecedented 230 million guarantee will make the NFL no different than MLB.

There will be the Steinbrenner's of the league who can put 230 million into an account and those who can't. Right now the NFL looks at Haslam as their Steinbrenner.

Talk about manipulating the cap. No wonder the NFL is fighting this tooth and nail.

There is no cap in MLB.

The NFL is financially structure to create parity.

MLB is not.

Mets payroll is $384

Guardians payroll is $91

https://www.thebaseballcube.com/content/payroll_year/2002

Very sad - CLE payroll in 2002 was $92M.

21 years of inflationary salaries and CLE is spending less now than 21 years ago.

Per that report: "When the stunning announcement was made that Watson was headed to Cleveland and contract details emerged, one team called and asked why it wasn't given an opportunity to match—because, they insisted, they would have. The answer: Watson wanted to go to Cleveland. His only hurdle had been moving to a city where he'd never really been before."

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...-watsons-browns-contract-if-given-chance

Ready for the spin cycle?

Honestly, the Haslam's are middle of the pack as owners as far as their networth. Tepper in Carolina is around 4 times as "wealthy." The main guy that bought the Broncos is over 10 times as "wealthy." Bisciotti of the Ravens has a higher networth than the Haslams. Link: NFL's Richest Owners

It's not that the Haslams are Steinbrenner, its that the other owners prefer hoarding their money. They like being able to manipulate their effectively monopolized market to take advantage of their workers like most billionaires. Haslam signed Watson to a "free market" deal, as capitalism is supposed to work. The other owners seem committed to their "price fixing" ways.

We'll see how things shake out.

You are right. there is no cap in MLB. But as much as people talk about manipulating the cap they can't seem to see the manipulation here. So are you saying it's parity when a hand full of owners can afford to outbid everyone else because they can afford to put 230 million in an escrow account in guaranteed money while the majority of the owners can't? That's not parity. That's manipulating things to give them an advantage.

That gives the richest owners a distinct advantage. Just like Steinbrenner can buy players while other MLB teams can't afford to.

On the attack already I see. There's a difference in net worth and liquidity.

Guys like Pit try to paint this picture of the poor NFL owners and why they are "fighting this tooth and nail," yet the reality is that NFL franchises are worth billions. Here is part of an article on the worth of NFL franchises.


Ranked: The Most Valuable NFL Teams in 2022

The world’s most valuable sports teams include internationally beloved soccer clubs, massive NBA franchises, and renowned MLB teams. But, it’s the National Football League (NFL) that has arguably the most valuable teams in the world.

In June 2022, the Denver Broncos sold for $4.65 billion, a record for the most expensive team purchase. But if other teams were to sell, they’d potentially command an even greater price tag.

Which teams, and conferences, reign supreme in value? This graphic by Truman Du uses data from Forbes last calculated in August 2022 to show the most valuable NFL teams.

NFL Teams by Value
To calculate team values, Forbes used enterprise values (total team equity plus net debt) and factored in each team’s stadium-related revenue. This includes non-NFL revenue that accrues to each team’s owner, but doesn’t account for the stadium’s real estate value.

The findings? NFL teams continue to become more valuable, rising in 2022 to an average of $4.47 billion, an increase of 28% year-over-year.

Search:
Rank NFL Team Value (Aug 2022)
1 Dallas Cowboys $8.00B
2 New England Patriots $6.40B
3 Los Angeles Rams $6.20B
4 New York Giants $6.00B
5 Chicago Bears $5.80B
6 Washington Commanders $5.60B
7 New York Jets $5.40B
8 San Francisco 49ers $5.20B
9 Las Vegas Raiders $5.10B
10 Philadelphia Eagles $4.90B
11 Houston Texans $4.70B
Showing 1 to 11 of 32 entriesPreviousNext

Search:
Rank NFL Team Value (Aug 2022)
12 Denver Broncos $4.65B
13 Miami Dolphins $4.60B
14 Seattle Seahawks $4.50B
15 Green Bay Packers $4.25B
16 Atlanta Falcons $4.00B
17 Pittsburgh Steelers $3.98B
18 Minnesota Vikings $3.93B
19 Baltimore Ravens $3.90B
20 Los Angeles Chargers $3.88B
21 Cleveland Browns $3.85B
22 Indianapolis Colts $3.80B




https://www.visualcapitalist.com/cp/ranked-the-most-valuable-nfl-teams-in-2022/

It was a contract.

The owners just want it their way period.

The contract is part of the cap. So one owner is richer than another? So.

NFL teams have to manage the cap. If the contracts are guaranteed and they can not handle it. Sell to someone who can.

If guaranteed contracts become the norm. Then the pressure is on them to adjust. The players and their union should want guaranteed money.

I see you're still having trouble understanding the difference between net worth and liquidity. Haslam just sold Pilot flying J and was flush with cash. But don't let facts get in the way of throwing shade. And I also understand you can't seem seem to comprehend that I said "some owners" not "just Haslam" could afford to do this. But carry on with your tirade.

No, I don't have a problem seeing that. However, you are having trouble admitting that "in June 2022, the Denver Broncos sold for $4.65 billion, a record for the most expensive team purchase. But if other teams were to sell, they’d potentially command an even greater price tag."

Oh, those poor owners!

So AFTER he sold the team he had the money. You do realize you can't sign an NFL QB after you sell the team, right? It's that damned liquidity issue again.

The majority of the other owners could get the "liquidity" if they wanted to. They have plenty of assets to leverage.

They much prefer the risk to be on the players rather than themselves, though.

What? You constantly try to argue points that no one is making. Bottom line............the NFL owners can afford to pay the players. They are being greedy.

I'm sure Mike Brown agrees with you. You seem to think that liquidity isn't an issue here.

When you factor in the injuries the NFL experiences over any other professional sport, to think otherwise would be foolish.

Please show me where I talked about liquidity? You are just inventing BS because you can't face the facts of the situation.

I think a more apt word there would be fair.

I think risking more injury should be better compensated, not less. Especially when you factor in brain trauma.

You haven't mentioned liquidity. Instead you have avoided addressing it like the plague.

The NFL salary cap was negotiated by the owners and the players. The contracts signed are agreed upon by the players. I don't really disagree with you in principal, but from a business standpoint it would be foolish for the owners to agree to fully guarantee long term contracts when the average career of an NFL player is just slightly over three years.

Sadly the brain trauma part of your post is far too real. It's also another part of the equation the players are fully aware of.

While overall player longevity is short, the longevity for starting QBs is generally longer. From the players' perspective, the Tua situation and the lousy state of NFL fields make guaranteed contracts make a lot of sense. When it comes to QBs, I'm not sure the owners have a whole lot to stand on when it comes to not guaranteeing contracts. How many Pro Bowl QBs haven't lasted until age 30? If you're going to adjust the rules to protect QBs, why can't you guarantee their contracts?

Here's another angle on the Lamar Jackson situation/"lack of interest"

Can and will are two different things. The salary cap is an attempt to reach parody. When you give QB's huge guaranteed contracts the salary cap also provides restrictions for building and maintaining an overall talented team. It's a numbers game. I'm not so much upholding the owners for this but I do understand the logic behind it.

No truer words spoken here in a while.

As long as you focus on the word attempt I would say you're right.

Good point.

The Browns did this last year with Watson and Baker was saying he was out before Watson had even committed to the Browns. If Watson hadn’t come here, the Browns wouldn't have had hope and a prayer for a QB. So, yeah. it makes all of the sense.

Agree.. except for the teams that don't have a qb.... Falcons, Commanders, Panthers, and Raiders don't have a qb... they have no one to piss off... Miami, I get.... the other teams that have publicly said they don't want Jackson, I don't get...

well, they can't even legally tamper for a few days yet.

j/c...

They could be in talks with other QBs though, and that could affect those talks as well.

After Miami lost their 1st rounder for "tampering" with Brady, it seems teams are being especially careful about publicly showing interest in players that haven't yet officially reached free agency.

In that light, the Rodgers/Jets meetings stands out, but the Packers gave him permission to seek a trade. I wonder how much communication goes on between teams and the league offices in this kind of situation.

Multi-billion dollar businesses- playing by rules- what you can and can't do hard to keep up with. Lots of balls in air currently- Murray told to grow up as leader- interesting....Jackson situation- wonder what each clubs "analytics section" is saying about his "real value and risks associated with his style of play"- JMHO, he's superb/best running QB in league- not close---he's middle of road passer- MY brain tells me he ain't worth what he wants- two years of "limited availability" is HUGE. I'd pass on him.

Two years of limited availability is a concern, but I don't think any of the injuries should be lingering. I also question the Ravens training/strength staff. The Ravens have been bit bad the past couple of seasons with injuries, and the strength staff was fired last month. They were rated the worst strength staff in the league in the NFLPA survey that has been going around and had the lowest grade of anything with an F-. (Link)

Maybe that is a big reason Lamar seems to want out of Baltimore. Perhaps he wants to go somewhere that will take care of his health better, and I can't really say I blame him.

j/c

I keep forgetting that the Panthers drafted Matt Corral. Lisfranc injury in the preseason kept him out all year. Maybe Jimmy G could be a bridge to him if Reich thinks he can make something of Corral.

This ^ is incorrect.

Prior Year Salary (PYS): A player's PYS is composed of his base salary, roster and reporting bonuses, prorated signing bonus and other payments to players for playing in the NFL for the previous league year -- except any performance bonuses outside of roster and reporting bonuses. This is important because the PYS is used for the calculations of the tags.

Non-exclusive franchise tag: A player who receives the non-exclusive franchise tag is free to negotiate with other teams. The player receives a one-year deal with a salary set at the greater of (a) the cap percentage average for his position (an amount equal to the sum of the franchise-tag figures at a player's position over the previous five seasons divided by the sum of the salary caps over the previous five seasons multiplied by the current year's salary cap) OR (b) 120 percent of his PYS (the player's cap number from the previous season, minus any performance incentives).

2023 non-exclusive franchise tag salaries:
Already set

QB: $32.416 million
RB: $10.091 million
WR: $19.743 million
TE: $11.345 million
OL: $18.244 million
DE: $19.727 million
DT: $18.937 million
LB: $20.926 million
CB: $18.140 million
S: $14.460 million
K/P: $5.393 million

Watson had zero bearing on the non-exclusive tag because his 2022 PYS was $9,395,500 and 10M in 2021.

Exclusive franchise tag: A player who receives the exclusive franchise tag cannot negotiate with other teams. The player receives a one-year deal for the greater of (a) the average of the five-largest PYS at his position at the conclusion of the restricted free agent signing period of the current league year (April 21 in 2023) or (b) the amount of the non-exclusive franchise tag. No player received the exclusive franchise tag in 2022.

Last player to receive an exclusive franchise tag: Dak Prescott (with the Cowboys in 2021).

Based on current salaries going into 2023 (updated on 3/9/2023) - this is the QB ranking in total cap salary used for the Exclusive tag. This could and will change prior to the April 21 deadline due to restructures, trades, etc but is really inmaterial since no player received an Exclusive Tag. As you can see, it's actually very different from the post above and the figures that would be used fpor the exclusive tag if nothing changed before April 21.

TOP QB SALARIES AS OF 3/9/2023
1. Watson CLE $54,993,000
2. Mahomes KCC $49,293,381
3. Prescott DAL $49,130,000
4. Allen BUF $39,772,281
5. Tannehill TEN $36,600,000
6. Cousins MIN $36,250,000
7. Ryan IND $35,205,882
8. Jackson BAL $32,416,000
9. Rodgers GBP $31,632,570
10. Gorr DET $30,975,000
11. Wilson DEN $22,000,000
12. Stafford LAR $20,000,000
13. Jones NYG $19,000,000
14. Murray ARI $16,007,000
15. Burrow CIN $11,515,043
16. Lawrence JAC $10,084,587
17. Tua MIA $9,633,033
18. Wilson NYJ $9,586,549
19. Lance SFO $9,301,434
20. Herbert LAC $8,456,876
21. Carr NOS $7,200,000
22. Fields CHI $5,146,896
23. Hurts PHI $4,789,486
24. Jones NEP $4,250,820
25. Pickett PIT $3,197,251
26. Smith SEA details of contract not available yet
27. Raiders - unknown
28. Tampa Bay - unknown
29. Houston - unknown
30. Carolina - unknown
31, Atlanta - unknown
32. Washington - unknown

Just an FYI, a Watson restructure in 2023 will put his cap hit for 2024, 2025, and 2026 at $66,223,000 per season.

Think you're jumping the gun a bit there. The amounts will depend on how exactly they restructure it. They don't have to convert all of it.

Edit: Just an FYI, if you're going to copy from an article, you should put the info in a quote box and provide a link.

this explains the lack of interest in Lamar

Normally I do, here's the link so you can verify what I posted as fact since that appears to be important to you.

https://www.nfl.com/news/2023-nfl-f...ormation-on-franchise-tags-contract-term

Oh, in case you feel you need to verify the salaries.

https://overthecap.com/calculator/cleveland-browns

No one's picking on you Steve. It's pretty much standard protocol around here... really most message boards. It helps a lot if someone wants more info relevant to the discussion.

The information has been supplied as requested. Excuse me for my error.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...ne-of-las-pillars-despite-trade-chatter/

Is another veteran signal-caller on the market?

2023 NFL free agency rumors: Rams' GM calls Matthew Stafford one of L.A.'s 'pillars' despite trade chatter
Is another veteran signal-caller on the market?

By Cody Benjamin
11 hrs ago
•
Once vaunted for their refusal to rebuild, the Rams are in teardown mode entering the 2023 NFL offseason. Big-name starters like Jalen Ramsey and Leonard Floyd have reportedly already been shopped on the trade market. Now quarterback Matthew Stafford may be among the potential casualties. Just a year after giving Stafford a $160 million contract extension following their Super Bowl run, Los Angeles has been calling teams about dealing the QB, according to NFL reporter Michael Lombardi.

"Matt Stafford is fully available," Lombardi said on "The Pat McAfee Show" Thursday. "They would love to trade [him]. They can't [easily] do it, because he's got $57 million guaranteed. [But] they're trying to get out from it. [They've] called teams, I know this."

While that may be the scuttlebutt surrounding Stafford in league circles, that's not the public stance of the Rams. During his pre-free agency press conference on Thursday, general manager Les Snead said that the team is "going to definitely rely on" Stafford, who he added is "one of our pillars."

"To me in a rebuild you would just bulldoze the house down, and again rebuilding from the ground up," said Snead, via NFL.com. "But when you have someone like Matthew Stafford, players like Cooper Kupp, Aaron Donald, there's some weight-bearing walls there that we still have, and we're going to rely on those -- don't want to put pressure on them -- and then at point remodel around them with maybe different teammates, different partners. And then even ask some of the players who've been here to keep evolving and going in that direction, so it'll be interesting.


Officially, Stafford's four-year, $160M extension includes $63M guaranteed, per Over the Cap. The Rams would actually absorb a net loss of $54M by trading Stafford before June 1. If they were to deal the QB after June 1, however, they'd instantly save $1.5M, as well as tens of millions from 2023-2026. That's discounting the possibility of another team taking on large portions of Stafford's guaranteed money, or renegotiating the contract entirely.

A prized acquisition for Sean McVay and the Rams ahead of the 2021 season, Stafford arrived from the Lions as part of a blockbuster trade package including two first-round draft picks. He threw a career-high 41 touchdowns while guiding L.A. to a Super Bowl LVI victory. But injuries wrecked his offensive line, his supporting cast -- and then his own health -- throughout 2022, in which he played just nine games and downplayed speculation of an early retirement.

Fully healthy, Stafford remains an above-average starter. But he also entered 2022 with questions about an injured elbow, and his contract would require clearing the aforementioned hurdles. So, whether that report is to be believed or not, it's unlikely he'd have a serious trade market until deep into the summer, provided there are still teams desperate for a proven starter.

That...and tape of him throwing the football.

Looks like the Rodgers trade to the Jets is going to happen.

I think the Pack got sick of Rodgers and his drama, just like they grew weary of Farve's constant drama.

And, it's on.........

That is a great deal for the Bears!

DJ Moore is an excellent WR. Who will the new guy throw to?

Wonder who they prefer?

Bryce Young? Small body type. They took Corral [spelling?] last year and he got hurt before the season.

Stroud? Best passer of the ball in the draft. Sometimes struggles w/the rush.

Richardson? Raw as can be. Inaccurate. Similar to Cam, who the Panthers once drafted.

...I guess that takes the Panthers out of the Lamar equation. I knew Tepper wanted a QB, but I didn't realize he was this desparate. I kind of feel sorry for whoever Carolina drafts. Who are they going to throw to now?

j/c:



If Fields can end up being their franchise QB, then this is a nice haul in terms of draft capital alongside Moore. Just not convinced yet that Fields is the guy.

I assume Carolina takes Bryce Young but he'll have nothing else around him and limited draft capital for a bit. I wouldn't be surprised if they sit him a year and ask him to add some weight while they build an offense.

I think it is clear the Jets really want Aaron Rodgers and the Packers are ready to move on from him. Consider this paragraph from a larger article.



That's almost $60 million for one year. The Jets will have to make a lot of moves in order to pay Rodgers. Also, Rodgers might be willing to restructure his contract like Watson has agreed to do in order to help the team.

Working out the all those details will have to be done before the Jets agree to the trade.

It looks like the bulk of this year's cap hit would stay with the Packers.

Just imagine, all it took for the Packers to move on from a top tier NFL QB was "some drama". Obviously the bar varies greatly from team to team in what they are and aren't willing to put up with and accept.

For some reason that sounds a little backwards. It's been stated all parties want a deal done before the FA market opens up. The legal tampering time period opens up on the 13th and the FA signing period opens on the 15th. It would seem the reports of them having the framework of a deal in place would make much more sense. Without having a framework in place they may not have enough time to get a deal done before free agency begins depending on how long it takes Rodgers to make his decision.

Anything is possible though I guess.

Can anyone give me some clarity about something?

I have heard over and over that Watson's contract is the 1st fully guaranteed contract. That owner's don't want another because one is an aberration but two is a trend.

However, in the past week or 2 I have seen/heard multiple times where people write or talk about how Cousin's had the 1st fully guaranteed
What's up with that?

There is a better article from the Boardroom, but it won't link to this site for some reason. However, it is right at the top of the page if you google Kirk Cousins guaranteed contract. Meanwhile, this following article is good, as well.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl...alary-vikings/1oieg5elh71od1m7o4yztsrytr

Per the article you linked:

"The Vikings quarterback cashed in on a big-money deal in 2018, signing an NFL first fully guaranteed contract"
So why is the Watson contract so controversial?

I don't get the big deal about fully guaranteed contracts.
If you change the verbiage all contracts are fully guaranteed with the opportunity to earn a bonus.

I don't know the answer to your question about why Watson's deal is so controversial because I haven't looked into it. I probably won't either. LOL

Me either, because it is surely to become a norm eventually. Also we are getting beat up by the media for Watson's contract ... but why should we care if it hurts our opponents in the pocket book?

It's a sour grapes narrative imo.

It's because Cousins deal was for $84M fully guaranteed and Watson's was $230M. It's the magnitude of the total dollar amount that has other owners up in arms.

I think the point being made is that it's not just Browns opponents it hurts, but the Browns as well.

I could care less if it gets us a Supper Bowl and we have to blow it up.

And sadly people will be making excuses for it if it doesn't get the Browns to a SB with the familiar, "Well at least they tried" mantra.

It's going to be harder than ever for us to get to a Super Bowl in the next couple of years. With the right additions we could conceivably have the most talent on our team in 2023 since the mid 80's That's great but in the AFC, there are probably a good 6-7 teams with just as much talent or more and there are some getting stronger. Ramsey going to Miami is an example and if Rodgers goes to the Jets they become legit contenders. Our window is the next 2-3 years after that it could be rebuild time. JMO

Are you saying we should not try to win the Super Bowl so we don't have to make excuses? LOL.......you are such a joke!

I'm saying as with any business the return on your investment determines your is gauged strictly on success or failure is determined by the results and only the results. "Trying" doesn't determine success or failure.

The reality is that they've always been "trying". I'm pretty sure they were "trying" in 2020 when the Browns made the playoffs. I'm pretty sure they were "trying" in 2021 when they went 8-9 in and I'm willing to bet they were "trying" again in 2022 when they went 7-10. But "Trying wasn't good enough for you then. So why would paying a guy 230 dollars and failing make "Well at least they tried" any better?

I mean if you want to talk about someone being a joke.

The Jets have to be freaking out. Carr is gone. Jimmy G is gone. And still, Rodgers hasn't said if he is retiring or willing to go to the Jets.

Gotta say, I'm amazed Green Bay was finally able to get rid of him.

I think it got to a point where all the drama was just too much for the Pack.

Well, now there is this....

An unemployed Trey Wingo getting the scoop was kind of out of left field. Rodgers can continue to milk the attention.

I almost did not post the tweet from Wingo because he seemed like an unlikely source. Sorry about that. And yeah, Rodgers loves the attention.

All's good. It will probably happen anyway. Sauce Gardner and Garrett Wilson are tweeting about it like they know it's going to happen.

From what I've read, the deal is done, it's up to Rodgers to decide if he's retiring or moving. I'd bet he's moving.

Starting to believe Dov Kleiman is not even a real person.

Since Rodgers is Rodgers, I thought he might announce his decision on McAfee's show, but...

Not sure what to make of this?

That's better APY than Allen.

Goodness.........it's become laughable at how badly the Jets are kissing Rodgers' ass..

And if true almost as much guaranteed money for half the length of the contract Allen agreed to. Allen signed a six year deal with a total of 150 mil guaranteed. Lamar would be signing a three year deal with 133 mil guaranteed.

Allen "only" had $100,038,000 'guaranteed at signing' which is the truly important number vs the $150M 'fully guaranteed'. He'll get that money even if he's injured and out of the NFL or is released/cut. The $150M assumes he remains on the roster and does not have a career ending injury.

The $133M 'guaranteed at signing' would be the second highest truly guaranteed dollar amount behind Watson that would protect Lamar against career ending injury and a release/cut down the road. It would put Lamar ahead of Russell Wilson who currently has the second most 'guaranteed at signing' total at $124M.

It is laughable.

I heard that the Jets have asked for MetLife Stadium Dr to be renamed to Lombardi Avenue.

He gets to hit a new contract sooner, but it says to me that they aren't sold on him lasting longer than that.

Yeah, the three year length of the offer is very telling.

it's unclear what he meant by "133/3", cause there is no news he signed anything yet. Was this an offer? was it his request? was this another teams offfer?

j/c...

New York = Green Bay East????

Rodgers is a great player. For years, I thought he was the most talented qb I had ever watched. He was so fun to watch on the field. However, he's become unlikable w/the continuous drama. Holding teams hostage year after year after year. It's tiresome.

It looks like he turned it down?

https://www.nfl.com/news/ravens-qb-...-down-three-year-133m-fully-guaranteed-c

Please take Odell off the market!

I think that tweet is a bad look on his character, those little snickers during negotiation show immaturity and lack of professionalism.

I don't wish bad on people, but since Lamar is on the Ravens, I hope this whole thing blows up in his face and he settles somewhere else for much less.

Not exactly the same, but very similar to the QB they had before Rodgers

Au contrare... Farvvvvve was a gunslinger with a cannon for an arm and penchant for interceptions.. Entertaining as anyone to watch.

Rodgers, more mobility and accuracy. Great as well to watch.

Both great, but different styles.

Very much agree. I wasn’t clear on the not exactly the same part. Thank you for clarifying it.

I was mostly alluding to the drama and holding teams hostage.

They are both drama queens for sure...

I saw a post on social media (I cannot find it now - I think was NFL Memes) that said Rodgers is demanding that the Jets sign Jordan Love so that he can sit behind Rodgers.

I liked the stories better where Rodgers was brooding in his Zen basement, meditating on the meaning of it all, taking female companionship as he saw fit, shunning the media sun, burning candles, engorging himself on Jersey Shore marathons, growing his toenails long and slapping around anybody who intruded.

So much more interesting.

Aaron Rodgers Announces His Intention to Play for Jets in 2023

As the Jets and Packers continue to negotiate over the future of Aaron Rodgers, the quarterback went on the Pat McAfee Show to make his intentions clear: he wants to be in New York.

Rodgers stated that he plans to play for the Jets next season, and that the trade discussion between the two teams is the only thing holding up the deal. He said that Green Bay has made it known that they would like to move on from the 39-year-old.

“The Packers would like to move on,” Rodgers said. “They’ve let me know that in so many words. They’ve let others know that in more direct words.”

Rodgers, who has been the talk of the offseason for the second consecutive year, informed the Jets that he would like to continue playing, and expressed his intentions to become their starting quarterback. The Jets front office met with Rodgers in California last week, and came out of the meeting feeling like they were “on the verge” of acquiring the longtime Packers quarterback if he elected to continue playing.

Rodgers signed a three-year, $150 million contract extension last March to remain in Green Bay and, at the time, expressed his desire to retire with the Packers. However, following a disappointing season that saw the NFC North franchise unexpectedly miss the playoffs, Rodgers emerged from the year mum on his future plans.

With Rodgers noncommittal, ESPN’s Adam Schefter reported that the Packers “preferred to move on” from their longtime franchise quarterback in order to start Jordan Love, who was selected in the first round of the 2020 draft to be Rodgers’s heir apparent in Green Bay.

The Packers gave permission to the Jets to speak to Rodgers, and now that the 39-year-old has elected to keep playing instead of retire, New York becomes a legitimate title contender in the AFC.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/03/15/a...NNSxJoOhkzZVRPAHQrV3pKR4CCTknWvvNzdAWUQM

j/c:

Baker Mayfield is set to succeed Tom Brady in Tampa Bay after the free-agent quarterback 'agreed to a deal for up to $8.5million for one year with the Buccaneers

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/n...dy-Tampa-Bay-agrees-deal-8-5million.html

Baker is going to be the next Ryan Fitzpatrick. An NFL QB nomad.. Team to team to team. He's already been on 4.

Bake-magic! Naw.. I don't think it rolls off the tongue right.

Sounds about right. Maybe he'll "find himself" in seasons 7 and 8.

He found himself in 2020 so it could happen.

An aspect that is likely holding up any Lamar Jackson action is that any team interested in trading for him would likely expect future draft picks to be later with him than where they're picking now. After the draft would make more sense for movement on Lamar with that in mind. As a bonus, it'll complicate the Ravens FA period and draft, as they'll have to consider drafting a Jackson replacement in case someone makes an outrageous offer while also keeping room to potentially match any offers.

They might not really feel this way, but you give up two firsts, two seconds, and an outstanding WR and you haven't identified your guy?

Why would you think they haven't identified their guy? Just because they aren't making it public?

Please don't turn this into a fight. It's an honest question.

What are you missing here? The part of the tweet that says: "Still going through the process, but they feel good about the group at the top?"

Or, me saying: They might not really feel this way...?"

I'm not fighting, but I really can't make sense out of your question.

I'm not missing anything. We have both watch this play out before. As an NFL FO many times the teams with the #1 pick play media games. They often times don't tell you if they've decided on their #1 pick or not. I don't trust that anything they put out in public as being accurate. Usually the truth gets revealed by the time the draft gets close but beforehand teams are often times deceptive.

The only difference here is you seem to put more faith is their public statement than I do. That's not a big deal. It's simply a difference in opinion.

I would think they have a "top" guy, but don't want to put it out yet, as anything could come up between now and the draft.

They wouldn't want the PR hassle, if their top pick has an issue in the next few weeks, or something comes uncovered, as it often does. They could save face and just say so and so was always their first choice.

Keeping everyone guessing is the smart thing to do. One, it leaves trade options open. Just as we don't know who, for example; Houston, Indpls, or Las Vegas are targeting - those teams may be willing to offer even a bigger trade load than Chicago got from Carolina if they're worried their guy may be gone by their pick. The other option is that Lamar Jackson is still in the mix. The underground scuttlebutt in Charlotte is the Panthers have feelers out on Jackson. If that is indeed the case, it would lend even bigger credence to the unknown selection meme.

I would think that until the Jackson thing gets settled or draft day gets here, no one will know for sure which way any of these teams are actually tilting honestly.

You really do struggle w/reading comprehension.

I agree w/you and Florida and that is why I said "They might not really feel this way..." I can't guarantee that, but it seems likely.

They are not going to play the card until the day of the draft. Happens every year.

I could for sure be wrong.

However, the whole situation with Lamar and how it has gone down sure smells like collusion to me.

The owners do want guaranteed deals. They know if Lamar gets one. The flood gates open.

First off let us not forget what the NFL actually is.

The NFL is an exclusive private membership club of owners. They all know each other. They talk to each other. They meet with each other.

And they control the NFL.

Their interests are not in line with the players. Never has been and never will be.

They will do all they can to stop guaranteed contracts from becoming the rule in the NFL.

I'm going to pull part of that article because much of it applies to all teams entering the Jackson Sweepstakes... I think it dispels some of the conspiracy theories concerning Jackson.

Why it might not work

Worth the effort?

There is a risk in entering negotiations with Jackson. The Ravens have the right to match any offer and could be inclined to do so unless it contains terms the franchise is fundamentally opposed to, such as a fully guaranteed deal.

What team wants to enter a situation knowing it might come away feeling as though it was used to do the negotiating for the players' current team? What's more, the fact that the Ravens have been unable to come to terms with Jackson after more than two years of negotiations will give teams pause.

There's another bit of complexity here: A team signing Jackson to an offer sheet might need to make some salary cap moves in advance in case the Ravens decline to match. Depending on how the deal is structured, that might impact other areas of the roster for Indianapolis even though there's no certainty the Colts would land Jackson.

Financial implications

The good news is there are ways around the salary cap complications on the front end of a potential Jackson contract. Consider Watson's deal with the Cleveland Browns. Despite it containing $250 million in guaranteed money, it was written in a way that reduced the first-year salary cap figure to $9.4 million. The downside is that kind of structure significantly inflated his salary cap number in future seasons. Watson's contract currently calls for cap figures that exceed $60 million a year in 2024 to 2026.

Perhaps more problematic than the salary cap obstacles are the guaranteed payments Jackson is sure to want. He reportedly wants a guaranteed deal in line with Watson's.

Even if Jackson is willing to settle for something less than a fully guaranteed deal, there will assuredly be massive amounts of guaranteed money in his contract. The future guarantees must be placed in escrow, per league rules, often limiting the amount of money owners are willing to guarantee. In the case of the Browns and Watson, that means as much as $185 million had to be escrowed to account for the guarantees after Year 1 of his contract.

Does Irsay (or other owners, for that matter) have that kind of liquidity? And even if he does, would he be willing to squirrel away such a massive amount of cash? You can see why the NFL Players Association hates this rule. But until it changes, it remains a reality in these kinds of conversations.

Finally, any team that pursues Jackson is going to need to offer a premium contract to deter the Ravens from matching. It remains to be seen what such a contract would look like.

Injury concerns

Is some of the conversation around Jackson's injury history overstated? Maybe. But for a team that might go all in to acquire the quarterback, his health must be a significant part of the conversation.

Jackson hasn't played a full season since he was a rookie in 2018, although he hadn't been sidelined by an injury until 2021. He missed the 2019 finale after Baltimore had clinched the top seed and he was forced to sit out a game in 2020 due to COVID-19. But, in the last two seasons, Jackson was out 11 combined games with ankle and knee injuries, including the Ravens' wild-card loss to the Bengals in January.

When you factor in the Colts' opportunity to proceed with a draft pick at a much lower cost -- and, therefore, less risk -- there's a lot to think about.

Full article: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id...r-jackson-makes-sense-indianapolis-colts

I think they are fighting the inevitable to a certain degree. Some positions are going to go that route unless there is a severe pivot in how it all works. I don't know what that pivot will look like.

It seems like other posters read it the very same way I did. Yet no snarky response to them. I wonder why that is? See, that's why it does me no good to try to be civil to you.

How about we stop talking to one another?

How about I post to who I want to when I want to? I understand you don't like the fact that I pointed out there were more posters that took your post exactly the same way as I did but your only snarky response was to me. That's a you issue. If I were you I may not have responded to that at all since it was quite accurate.

How about I respond to who I want to and you do the same. You know, the way message boards are supposed to work. Like I said, I tried to be quite civil and your response is there for all to see. That's not am me issue.

And anyone who believes differently is in denial.

Folks like to say that $ fixes everything, but if they were willing to spend the $ to keep him in Baltimore then we would not be here reading this Twitter.

I'm not sure they were willing to spend the money. Actually it may have been more about the length of the contract they offered which ties in directly with the amount of the guaranteed money. From what I heard it was only for three years. There may have been details I missed. But my guess is a QB in his position would want no less than a four year deal and more than likely five.

I think you may also wish to consider that there is no direct quote from Lamar in this Tweet.

Why should I have to concider that?

If I am Lamar Jackson, then the non-exclusive tag of 32M is a slap in my face. The Ravens knew full well that they would get no competition from other teams ... at least they could be confident because there was no precedence in the League. At least an exclusive tag would not have been low balling him in relation to his peers and they could have still continued to negotiate a new contract.

My mistake. I thought you were indicating they WERE willing to pay him the money. After rereading your post I see I was mistaken.

That is the best news of the off-season.

Lamar is turning into Baker 2.0

Why do I get the feeling the Ravens will be just fine with or without him?

Because the backup is solid, he's not Lamar the athletic freak, but he's not THAT MUCH of a drop-off. TBH, if I were the Ravens, I'd be good with the backup on a rookie deal while everybody else is paying 250 mil fully guaranteed Franchise QB contracts. They can always upgrade with Baker next year and kick the crap out of us.

I hope Baltimore gives that guy a 10 yr ga-jillion dollar, guaranteed deal.

I think losing Lamar would be a huge loss for Baltimore. They do have a very talented roster, but Lamar makes that team go. They have fallen off the last two years w/Huntley.

The record with Lamar and without Lamar speaks volumes.

They are a losing team without him.

I saw something on social media where someone opined that there are 2 QB contracts that are muddling the Lamar Jackson situation and the Watson contract is not one of them. It is Mahomes's and Josh Allen's contracts because they signed deals that are not fully guaranteed. Had they gotten fully guaranteed deals then that would have made it easier for others to get them as well. Them not doing it gives the owners a little firmer ground to stand on.

Some have said earlier in this thread that Lamar not getting an offer could be in part that other teams do not want to do Baltimore's negotiating for them, figuring they would match whatever offer he gets from another team. I think this is a fairly big factor.

As a question on the Lamar issue. Has he signed his tender? Can he actually negotiate with other teams without signing?

I don't disagree with your points but I am curious if the status of the tender is complicating this as well.

Woah!

I really don't see how this relationship is repairable. Those are pretty strong words by Lamar. Here is the complete letter for those of you who were unable to read it.

Playing Captain Obvious this is a big deal.

A big deal on many levels because whatever happens it will have a impact on contracts.

The Browns play the Ravens twice. The games are always a struggle with Lamar. If he is gone those two games could change the division.

We go from maybe splitting or losing two games; to being favorites to win those games.

So, you damn skippy I want Lamar on another team.

Good question, Frank. I do not know the answer. From the way things sound, it seems he is free to negotiate. All the talk is about how no teams have talked with him or made him offer. That makes it sound as if that is possible. Again, though, I am not 100% sure.

@Vers - that definitely sounds as though Lamar is done in Baltimore. Or at least wants to be. Thanks for posting.

IIRC, once a tender is signed, it becomes a contract.

Lamar is free to negotiate w/other teams. The Ravens have the right to match any other offer that Lamar gets. If they decline to match the offer from the other team, they would receive two 1st round picks from the other team.

So, asking for the trade changes nothing in the process in regards to the negotiations, matching the offer, and the compensation. The significance of the tweet is that Lamar is going public. He asked for the trade before the Ravens put the franchise tag on him. He is letting the world know he wants out, probably because he feels disrespected.

For context, the 49ers gave up three 1st rounders and a 3rd for Trey Lance. Brock Purdy was Mr. Irrelevant.

]

Baker never requested a trade until the Browns made it known they were going after Watson... up to that point, Baker left it all out on the field in every game.

You can argue all you want about his technical ability, but you can't argue his committment to the Browns.

I guess I don't get why Jackson is so ready to move on from the Ravens?