03/28/2013 - 2013 San Diego State Pro Day: San Diego State and Hawaii held their pro days together in San Diego on March 19. Workouts were held outdoors on FieldTurf. All 32 NFL teams were present, including defensive back coaches from San Diego and tight end coaches from Cincinnati, Philadelphia and San Diego. Leon McFadden, CB (5-11, 192) - McFadden had a 34 1/2-inch vertical and did positional drills. - Gil Brandt, NFL.com •More Leon McFadden News
Overview
A former wide receiver recruit out of high school, McFadden moved over to the secondary as a freshman and worked his way into a starting role. He progressed each season and earned First Team All-Mountain West honors each of the past three seasons. With lofty expectations, McFadden had a productive senior season in 2012 with 15 passes defended and a career-best 3 interceptions, which he returned for 124 yards (41.3 average) and a pair of scores.
McFadden finishes his career as one of the most decorated defensive players at San Diego State. He leaves the Aztecs with 47 career passes defended and 8 interceptions, starting 45 games over his career. The son of a nine-year MLB veteran, McFadden is a talented all-around athlete with the fluid skill-set and productive resume to make an impact at the next level.
Analysis
Strengths: Fluid feet, hips and joints to quickly change directions and stick with receivers up and down the field. Natural speed to cover vertical routes and recover after false steps. Aggressive with the ball in the air and won?t concede anything thrown his way. Natural instincts with a knack for always knowing where the ball is located. Plays the position with a fearless demeanor to bait throws and takes chances in coverage. Good chase skills and plays fast in pursuit, only knowing one speed. Solidly-built and has better functional strength than expected. Very strong resume with excellent experience and production. Already has strong practice habits and a pro demeanor.
Weaknesses: Lacks ideal height and length and doesn?t have much growth potential. Needs to be more consistent as a tackler to hit through the ballcarrier and wrap. Can be out-muscled by bigger receivers and his lack of size will show at times. Inconsistent in press coverage and looks more natural in off-man or in space.
Like I said on the other thread, McFadden has a good break on the ball. It's obvious that our philosphy on defense is to play fast and create turnovers.
A CB who can break on the ball on the back end of that defense where we are going to put a lot of pressure on the QB is more valuable than a big physical CB.
I love this pick. This kid fits our defense perfectly.
We will pressure the quarterback. We will hurry throws.
This kid has great feet. He gets an excellent break on the ball. He will challenge receivers. He is a bit of a gambler, but that should be good in Horton's defense.
Love his feet. Love his closing speed on the ball.
I'm very content with both Mingo and McFadden. We're addressing our D and it's pretty pleasing overall with these picks. Sad that we didn't get a 2nd Round pick but we haven't made any bad picks.
Bottom Line McFadden's a tenacious three-time All-Mountain West selection possessing the strength, quickness, attitude, and ball skills required of NFL starters, even if his size is not ideal to handle the physicality of veteran wideouts. Many shorter corners who play with similar strength and temperament have succeeded at the next level, which will help him nail down top-75 grades from scouts.
Quote: I see both picks as bad picks. BUT I hope I am wrong and freely admit that I am not a draft expert.
In all honesty, don't instantly judge a draft pick the moment it's announced. It's hard not to considering some picks, but for these picks, they're worth supporting until they prove otherwise.
If any of us were draft experts, we wouldn't be here.
I don't hate it or anything, but really had a man crush on BWW...lol.
I think we are going to live and die on our ability to create turnovers/big plays ( I know duh). The previous regime seem to prefer a disciplined bend but don't break style, but I agree these guys want big plays. I think they are ok knowing that they will give up there share of big plays, but plan on making up for it by creating their own.
Both ways can work but this should be more fun to watch
This works for me. We needed a corner and we got one. I don't know anything about him, but hopefully we grabbed the best of the three that went in a row around us.
Oh trust me I have been saying give a guy three years before we really know about him for years. Ask anybody who knows me on the board I never rush to judgement. Like I said I don't like the picks but I will wait three years to make a final judgement, and I will support them 100 percent until that time.
Quote: I see both picks as bad picks. BUT I hope I am wrong and freely admit that I am not a draft expert.
In all honesty, don't instantly judge a draft pick the moment it's announced. It's hard not to considering some picks, but for these picks, they're worth supporting until they prove otherwise.
If any of us were draft experts, we wouldn't be here.
Well F&H7, as far as no experts here, I'm finding the opposite the more and more posts/replies I read.
That 4.5 40 worries me. Not much faster than Mingo. But we shall see. If he contributes it's fine.... Still, as of now Buster Skrine is our starting corner opposite Haden.
Nope not battered fan bro. I just don't like taking a skinny DE when I don't see a major need for him right now, and I don't see a need to reach for a CB when their might have been better choices available. I will root for these guys from here on out, and I will wait three years to pass judgement on them. I just don't agree with our picks so far. Only time will determine if I am right or wrong
Quote: That 4.5 40 worries me. Not much faster than Mingo. But we shall see. If he contributes it's fine.... Still, as of now Buster Skrine is our starting corner opposite Haden.
Yep. We`ll see about this kid but on paper? Skrine is a better CB and starts as of now.
Quote: That 4.5 40 worries me. Not much faster than Mingo. But we shall see. If he contributes it's fine.... Still, as of now Buster Skrine is our starting corner opposite Haden.
Yep. We`ll see about this kid but on paper? Skrine is a better CB and starts as of now.
And that sucks.
Haden's official 40 time was slower.
And GM - why is Skrine better on paper? I have no opinion one way or the other, but whats the rationale?
j/c I don't know a lot about this kid so when I look at his measurables his height is the first thing I see. Now having read several good explanations in this thread about how his skills complement what the Browns are likely to do up front it makes sense. I'm going to go find some tape on him.
I'm happy that we went CB... I'm not a big fan of short DBs but don't know his kid much and have watched a few videos tonight and have liked what I've seen so far... one nice thing is there were three CBs taken all in a row so we'll be able ot see how good he pick was compared to those other two guys in a few years.
Quote: Like I said on the other thread, McFadden has a good break on the ball. It's obvious that our philosphy on defense is to play fast and create turnovers.
A CB who can break on the ball on the back end of that defense where we are going to put a lot of pressure on the QB is more valuable than a big physical CB.
I like the pick.
I'm good with the pick as well. Still, imo we need another or 2 more.
Plus, Rome wasn't built in a day, a draft, or a year. Banner did say that we weren't gonna fill all the holes this year, or something to that effect.
If we get the pressure on QB's that we/they think we can deliver, that pressure can make avg CB's seem top notch.
Need imo 1 more CB and at least 1 FS. Either thru the rest of the draft and/or amongst the remaining unsigned vet FA's, we gotta get em.
Quote: And GM - why is Skrine better on paper? I have no opinion one way or the other, but whats the rationale?
Buster has speed to burn, but he lacked experience coming out of college. IMO This is his make or break year but the kid does work his butt off on the field and on his playbook.
HEheh//only reason to not like McFadden is height..he is a fluid corner is good at man coverage..just the type for this defense.Explian something to me..I have seen a lot of people on different boards wanting the Browns to take Honey Badger,,dude is even shorter than LM..and not better in coverage..don't get that..
GM, Mingo will be a LB for us, no way he plays DE. He's the same size as Von Miller (30 sacks in his first 2 years) so I think he's not too small either. If he can give us that production, I'll be happy.
In 1999 we took a 5'8 CB Daylon McCutcheon who was a staple for 5 to 7 years in the secondary. If Leon McFadden plays like Daylon with Haden on the other side I will be very happy.
McFadden had a very good senior bowl. Showed good man skills and ball skills. Cannot complain about this pick at all.
I think Skrine will be a pleasant surprise this year...yet I'd still like to sign a vet to help out...even Sheldon Brown to see what he's got left
skrine a pleasant surprise? ???? yeah he will be a pleasant surprise if he doesnt see much of the field......that guy was burnt more then toast last year.
Quote: GM, Mingo will be a LB for us, no way he plays DE. He's the same size as Von Miller (30 sacks in his first 2 years) so I think he's not too small either. If he can give us that production, I'll be happy.
I know Mingo will be a LB for us, but will be any better than JS? At the number 6 pick in the draft I think we should be getting a sure fire starter that we can plug in for the next 10 years, and I am not sure that Bark is that guy (but I sure hope that he is)
Quote: In 1999 we took a 5'8 CB Daylon McCutcheon who was a staple for 5 to 7 years in the secondary. If Leon McFadden plays like Daylon with Haden on the other side I will be very happy.
McFadden had a very good senior bowl. Showed good man skills and ball skills. Cannot complain about this pick at all.
Not that this guy comps to Frank Minnifield but............
Minni was 5'9" and 140 in college. No doubt he put on some weight by the time he played for the Browns but he didn't add any inches to that 5'9" stat.
Quote: I'm good with the pick as well. Still, imo we need another or 2 more.
I think we are done w/corners. We signed two back-up corners in FA. We still have Skrine and Wade.
I think we roll w/Hayden and McFadden as starters. Either Skrine or one of the new guys comes in as the nickel. We have enough guys to run dime coverages.
We lost one corner. We have brought in 3 and our two young guys are a year older.
All I've been reading is how we NEED TO DRAFT A CB. Now, we draft one and I read that we don't have a major need for a cb.
You guys and your hating is beyond ridiculous!
Lol I wanted a CB not a brownie elf mascot. Maybe ok in nickel but taller WR's are just going to jump for the ball and leave him behind in the redzone.
Could have taken a pretty good FS and then drafted this guy in the 4th or 5th round. I mean c'mon you seriously telling me you dont think this player wasn't a reach?
Maybe we can still get lucky and draft: Earl Wolff, S, N.C. State Height: 6-0. Weight: 207. 40 Time: 4.44.
He is off the radar a little bit because he is from a small school but I would LOVE to have him as our starting safety! He would be a steal in the 4th round.
in the chatroom I listed , hmm, Demontre moore, Alex okafor, Terrence Williams wr, Markus Wheaton wr, all were still avail, honey badger was avail, Schwenke C, from cal avail, Da Rick Rogers Wr avail
Ryan Swope wr, avail. Sam Montgomery was avail.
They aren't going to get a good wr now. It's just sad. Every year. Every year, they never learn.Kenny Stills. still avail.
I think Skrine will be a pleasant surprise this year...yet I'd still like to sign a vet to help out...even Sheldon Brown to see what he's got left
skrine a pleasant surprise? ???? yeah he will be a pleasant surprise if he doesnt see much of the field......that guy was burnt more then toast last year.
Anyone remember the Dallas game and how bad Skrine looked? Bademosi came in and looked very good. I'll like to see him get some reps on D. Could be the next Bodden. And, let's cut bait on Skrine.
Guys, I am shocked there is still this many quality players on the board. I had much higher grades on some of the kids that are left than the ones who went earlier. We have a shot at getting some really good players tomorrow.
Now back to McFadden. Like I told Vers, I don't hate the pick, but just liked BWW alot better. So the Browns didn't get who I wanted.....shrug...they rarely do...lol.
You know me bro, I don't have an agenda about FOs as I hated Holmgren/Heckert since the Weeden fiasco, and I'm iffy on these guys.
I like Mingo, and was going to defend it against some of the nonsense comments that were made but the thread was closed. I don't dislike the McFadden pick, but just thought a better player who played the same position was available. The Browns disagree with my evaluation....go figure.
Quote: I have a buddy who lives in SD and is a huge SDSU fan, as soon as he saw the Browns picked McFadden he texted me and told me I'm going to love him.
Obviously hes no draft expert either but he raved about McFadden.
*Edit- I'll add he isn't typically a homer, he will rag on players he feels deserve it so I trust his opinion.
I'm hoping they go BPA the rest of the way..............still lots of good football players out there if we just pick the best one regardless of position.
Quote: 5'10" is an elf at CB, but a 6'0" safety is perfect?
LOL....I read that post and said the same thing. In his defense I like taller CBs because of the new fad of bigger WRs, but plenty of smaller ones have been good.
He is 5'9 not 5'10 and back when people were drafting CB's this short the avg height of a WR was not near as high as it is now. Just look at our own WR corps.
I think he is a good kid, he has great hips and good foot work. Nice change of direction but IMHO in today's game a 5'9 CB is a liability and we drafted him way too early.
I see the logic in the attack-ballhawk setup. If he's feisty and has a nose for the ball, he will be a huge addition. And I was one of the guys screaming for corner help.
I think Skrine is a liability, but still has some value with that speed. Would be wise to get 1 CB with size, and we might have done that with the signing of Barnes. And maybe it will take a year to round-out the secondary. That's fine, if McFadden can help and fit our scheme? Then I got zero problems with adding him. Just think we need 1 big, especially if we keep Skrine.
We will see who is eating words later in the season. Not that you will admit it, but I just need to put that out there. I am not a big measurable guy. I prefer performance.
Solid pick, not great, not bad....I think we will regret passing on B.W-W but he was my no2 CB when we picked, so considering the craziness that was going on in the 2nd/3rd with some incredibly stupid picks, I'll take a "solid" pick at our biggest position of need
Buddy nothing would make me happier because it would mean we have a good player =)
Like I said I don't hate the kid I just think he could have been had in the 4th or even later. Of course I also understand CB's have been going like fresh donuts at a police station too, so I can even understand why they thought they needed to take him earlier than the 4th or 5th.
Here are reports on Leon McFadden at the Senior Bowl from draftcountdown.com
Quote: San Diego St. CB Leon McFadden was the shining star of the secondary during the practice. In the interception drill, McFadden made a nice catch above his head at one point. He was extremely physical every single play and came away with two interceptions when he anticipated throws. Pushed around Cobi Hamilton in a 1-on-1 situation to break up a pass as well.
San Diego St. CB Leon McFadden was terrific again. McFadden is adequate across the board physically but not special in any regard. However, McFadden is just a good football player with fluid hips and is making himself some money this week. McFadden may have been underrated prior to the Senior Bowl but the secret is out.
San Diego State CB Leon McFadden continued to play very physically. He did get injured at one point but would return later in the practice. Exceled in press coverage.
You know what bro.........the guy that really intrigues me is Gipson. I think he showed very well last year. I think he impressed the hell out of Jauron, who is a very savvy NFL guy.
I understand that he does't have the best pedigree, but I really think this kid might surprise us all and be our FS.
Here are reports on Leon McFadden at the Senior Bowl from draftcountdown.com
Quote: San Diego St. CB Leon McFadden was the shining star of the secondary during the practice. In the interception drill, McFadden made a nice catch above his head at one point. He was extremely physical every single play and came away with two interceptions when he anticipated throws. Pushed around Cobi Hamilton in a 1-on-1 situation to break up a pass as well.
San Diego St. CB Leon McFadden was terrific again. McFadden is adequate across the board physically but not special in any regard. However, McFadden is just a good football player with fluid hips and is making himself some money this week. McFadden may have been underrated prior to the Senior Bowl but the secret is out.
San Diego State CB Leon McFadden continued to play very physically. He did get injured at one point but would return later in the practice. Exceled in press coverage.
Just thought it might be interesting.
This is what I saw!
I'm telling you guys, we got a steal. He was not drafted high because of his size and school. The kid can ball. You'll see.
NFLDraftScout has his 40 at 4.40..........not that big of a diff but just an fyi.
They do have him listed as a SS but as I understand, more and more teams aren't classifying FS/SS anymore and are going with a type of "Hybrid S" which is both have the same skillset and are somewhat interchangable.
03/28/2013 - 2013 North Carolina State Pro Day: North Carolina State did its pro day on March 20 indoors on a fast surface. Earl Wolff, S (5-11 1/2, 210) - Wolff notched a 36-inch vertical and a 6.96-second three-cone drill. He's a little bit of a straight-line guy, but he looked good and had a good work out. - Gil Brandt, NFL.com •More Earl Wolff News
Overview
A running back and safety as a prep, Wolff was also a standout on the track team at Hoke County high school in North Carolina.
He redshirted in 2008 before starting four games at the boundary safety position the following year. His highlight was 10 tackles while playing just 26 snaps against Pitt.
Wolff finished third on the team with 91 tackles in 2010, starting every game at the boundary safety position. He posted a career-high 15 tackles against East Carolina.
He again posted a career-high with 113 tackles in 2011, earning All-ACC nominations. But Wolff saved his best for last, earning first-team All-ACC honors as a senior, leading the team with 136 tackles, including a career-high 19 against Clemson. He had four games with at least 17 tackles, and picked off a pair of passes.
Wolff is a stabilizing presence in the secondary who can cover good ground.
Analysis
STRENGTHS: Possesses lean, muscular frame with long arms. Displays good play recognition, and nice initial straight-ahead burst. Takes sound angles to the outside against the run, and really uses his length well to close space and make the tackle. Wraps up nicely, and routinely approaches his target low. Exhibits a fluid backpedal and flips the hips with good timing in transition.
Displays good awareness in zone coverage and does a good job of reading and reacting to the quarterback's eyes. Gets up to speed quickly when asked to plant and drive forward from a backpedal. Looks natural and instinctive when he's playing up in the box, and defending the run. Positions himself well for gap coverage as a run defender, and exhibits patience to allow the play to develop when closing from deep.
WEAKNESSES: Despite possessing a strong first step downhill, isn't nearly as explosive when reacting laterally. Is susceptible to cutbacks when up near the line of scrimmage, as he'll overrun his gap from time to time. Struggles to break down and redirect in space rapidly.
Could be more aggressive at shedding blockers as he tends to lock on and will allow himself to be directed out of the play. Is susceptible to separation across the field in man coverage, as he lacks suddenness to stop or cut abruptly. Lacks a 2nd gear to correct over the top, and does not cover enough ground to be a sideline-to-sideline, deep middle safety.
COMPARES TO: Deon Grant, Safety, Retired - When I look at Wolff, I see a guy with instincts, toughness and athleticism that remind me of Grant, who made an 11-year career for himself as a strong run defender that didn't make a lot of mistakes in coverage. Wolff has a chance to be a similar player, and should upgrade a special teams unit immediately with his downhill, physical style. Probably falls to the latter three rounds of the draft, considering the speedy, athletic depth at the position in this year's class.
You know what bro.........the guy that really intrigues me is Gipson. I think he showed very well last year. I think he impressed the hell out of Jauron, who is a very savvy NFL guy.
I understand that he does't have the best pedigree, but I really think this kid might surprise us all and be our FS.
It's possible. He might have been able to show us more if he didnt get hurt last year. Was a foot injury of some kind if i remember right
Quote: I don't know much about Bademosi. Cool name.
Educate me.
I am the original Bademosi pimp from last year. Loved him from the second we signed him as an UDFA.
He was a Safety at Stanford, and is a very, very bright kid. He is a major league hitter on special teams. He also got a chance to play some on regular defense late in the year, and didn't get beat. He made every tackle he had to make.
He is currently the gunner on teams, and also is a backup CB. He was determined to make this team last year, and went to the special teams coach and asked him exactly what he had to do to make the team.He then went out and did it. I like that. I actually would love to see him get a chance at FS. With his desire and determination, I think that he could become a plus level FS.
As far as McFadden ..... I'll admit to not knowing a tremendous amount about him, but I looked up some info on him, and every report I read talks about his smooth hips, speed, and ability to stick with receivers, even on quick, change of direction type plays.
From what I have read, I like the pick. I admit to not having seen him play though. Don't get a ton of San Diego State games in YTown.
You know what bro.........the guy that really intrigues me is Gipson. I think he showed very well last year. I think he impressed the hell out of Jauron, who is a very savvy NFL guy.
I understand that he does't have the best pedigree, but I really think this kid might surprise us all and be our FS.
They do have him listed as a SS but as I understand, more and more teams aren't classifying FS/SS anymore and are going with a type of "Hybrid S" which is both have the same skillset and are somewhat interchangable.
Forget it. While teams may be doing that, we absolutely cannot put TJ Ward at the FS position. No way can he cover the deep half of the field. No was can he be responsible to roam sideline to sideline.
We need a guy who is a pure FS. A guy more like an Earl Thomas type.
Quote: in the chatroom I listed , hmm, Demontre moore, Alex okafor, Terrence Williams wr, Markus Wheaton wr, all were still avail, honey badger was avail, Schwenke C, from cal avail, Da Rick Rogers Wr avail
Ryan Swope wr, avail. Sam Montgomery was avail.
They aren't going to get a good wr now. It's just sad. Every year. Every year, they never learn.Kenny Stills. still avail.
With the addition of Bess, there is no need to draft a WR. We can, if we feel the value is there, but we can fill another need. Our WR's are actually pretty solid looking right now, IMO.
Quote: I don't know much about Bademosi. Cool name.
Educate me.
Quick hits for you, Vers:
Johnson Bademosi #37. 1st generation American son of Nigerian immigrants. Has a History degree from Stanford. Played rugby in HS. Joined the Browns in 2012 as an UDFA. Position: DB Usage: Mainly Special Teams. He's a gunner on KO's and punts. Always near the ball, Good hustle, and sure tackler.
He was inserted late in the Dallas game last year as an injury replacement, and turned a few heads. He had to defend Dez Bryant and Miles Austin for the rest of the game. Romo picked on him constantly, but the kid didn't fold. When he couldn't defense the ball, he made sure tackles after catch. He broke on a 3rd down pass to Bryant, and almost picked it. At any rate, he helped get the D off the field with that play. (I think it was in OT.)
I kinda like the kid. He's still raw, but he seems to be instinctual- something that can't be taught. I know Skrine was the choice, but that Dallas game showed me something about this kid.... something that made me want to see more.
Now, we have a new FO who just picked "their boy" at DB, so I wonder how much of a shot Baddie will get. At any rate, he's intrigued me- and I hoe he gets a fair chance to develop under Ray Horton. If he pans out, we may not be as brereft of talent at DB as we look on paper.
BOTTOM LINE McFadden’s a tenacious three-time All-Mountain West selection possessing the strength, quickness, attitude, and ball skills required of NFL starters, even if his size is not ideal to handle the physicality of veteran wideouts. Many shorter corners who play with similar strength and temperament have succeeded at the next level, which will help him nail down top-75 grades from scouts.
Quote: In 1999 we took a 5'8 CB Daylon McCutcheon who was a staple for 5 to 7 years in the secondary. If Leon McFadden plays like Daylon with Haden on the other side I will be very happy.
McFadden had a very good senior bowl. Showed good man skills and ball skills. Cannot complain about this pick at all.
Not that this guy comps to Frank Minnifield but............
Minni was 5'9" and 140 in college. No doubt he put on some weight by the time he played for the Browns but he didn't add any inches to that 5'9" stat.
Different time, different league. Back then you were allowed to play bump and run and really guard a receiver. Now if you LOOK at one it's interference. Also, back then there was the "smurf" revolution. A lot of receivers were under 6'0. Houston and the Redskins were rife with them. Now, a small receiver like that is a specialty player for the most part.
How is this kid going to cover 6'0 to 6'-4" receivers that are faster than him?
I have no real problem with the pick. He's depth and MAYBE an eventual slot corner. He'll probably play on special teams. But I sure don't see him as an immediate starter. Skrine is a LOT faster and he's got a couple years under his belt. Either one of the 2nd tier FA's we signed, or Buster Skrine, will start unless we sign/trade for another corner.
If you remember, I was pimping Grines hard. It didn't work out.
I do have to say this though..........I personally don't see that much of a comparison between the two. McFadden is quicker. Has better hips. Has better hands. Grimes is bigger. Has better long distance speed.
I don't know......I like both guys, but I don't see them as twins.
Take a moment and stop trying to convince these guys ..some of us know what his kid can do..the other thing not mentioned, he came from a pass-happy conference..he can play.
I've been reading up on some of the guys we signed as UDFA ..... and I have my sleeper pick ......
Johnson Bademosi.
He is a CB who will probably play S in the NFL. he has solid size, and ran a 4.35 at Stanford's pro day. Unfortunately, he seems to lack some as a man to man CB type ..... but he could excel at S. He's 6'1" and 201, with and looks like a guy who can easily carry another 10-15 pounds. He went to Stanford, and majored in History, so he has to be bright. he also has said that he loves to hit people.
McFadden, a former wide receiver, has become a shutdown corner for the Aztecs.
He doesn't have ideal size at 5'10" and 190 pounds, but he is consistent and durable, with a knack for getting his hands on the ball. McFadden started six games as a true freshman, and he elevated his game to a first-team All-Mountain West level by his the end of his sophomore year. He only has five career interceptions, but that can be chalked up to quarterbacks avoiding him as much as it can be a sign of McFadden's inability to close the deal when he has a shot at a pick.
His extensive experience and fluid athleticism should make the senior a late-second day or early-third day prospect in April. web page
This may have been mentioned, I haven't read every post in here. For those of you panicking about McFadden's size at 5'11" and 190 pounds, I hope you realize that's the exact same size as Joe Haden and most everyone here doesn't consider that a problem for him. If nobody is worried about Haden's size, why are you suddenly worried about McFadden's when they're literally the exact same?
I love the McFadden pick. He's quick in and out of turns, he can catch, has good make-up speed if he gets bumped off by a larger receiver, and is an excellent zone defender. If he improves his tackling, I think we have someone here who could very well anchor his side of the field opposite of Haden and make it very difficult for opposing QBs to throw against us. Most QBs in college didn't throw his way because he shut down that side of the field. For anyone concerned about his lack of numbers, there's your reason.
Quote: This may have been mentioned, I haven't read every post in here. For those of you panicking about McFadden's size at 5'11" and 190 pounds, I hope you realize that's the exact same size as Joe Haden and most everyone here doesn't consider that a problem for him. If nobody is worried about Haden's size, why are you suddenly worried about McFadden's when they're literally the exact same?
I love the McFadden pick. He's quick in and out of turns, he can catch, has good make-up speed if he gets bumped off by a larger receiver, and is an excellent zone defender. If he improves his tackling, I think we have someone here who could very well anchor his side of the field opposite of Haden and make it very difficult for opposing QBs to throw against us. Most QBs in college didn't throw his way because he shut down that side of the field. For anyone concerned about his lack of numbers, there's your reason.
Thank you.
I don't think he's going to be excellent out of the gate, but I am so sick of people judging CBs just based on their height. It's a crappy and superficial way of evaluating CBs.
This guy has plenty of potential and I'm not concerned at all about his height.
Oh, and I love posting this laundry list of players who have one thing in common: Sam Shields, Tim Jennings, Adam Jones, Kyle Arrington, Alterraun Verner, Chris Houston, Leon Hall, Vontae Davis, Tramon Williams, Asante Samuel, Janoris Jenkins, Brent Grimes, Cortland Finnegan, Ladarius Webb, Brandon Flowers, Johnathan Joseph, Joe Haden, Darrelle Revis.
Seeing as how McFadden was one of my top 3 4th round targets (and I'm greedy), I can't complain too much about this pick.
Ultimately however, being just under 5'10" and possessing quite a bit more twitchy-ness than top speed he is definitely more of a slot corner (occasionally miss represented by the "nickle-corner" monacre).
At the very least we went from having 1 corner (CB1-Haden) to two corners (CB1 and "CB3").
If we can land Phillip Thomas (FS) or Rambo in the 4th or Wolff in the 5th tomorrow to match up/ play over-the-top of the bigger down field guys then the slot cover guy may turn out to be just what we needed after all.
That's all hopes and roses at the moment though. Time will tell.
How often does a team's #2 receiver end up moving into the slot in 3-WR formations anyway (or in the case of teams like New England and Wes Welker, the teams #1 receiver).
Either way, you cannot deny his epic level of consistency over the last three years against lower lvl competition.
Overall Grade: B- (downgraded from being about a half round early)
Quote: In 1999 we took a 5'8 CB Daylon McCutcheon who was a staple for 5 to 7 years in the secondary. If Leon McFadden plays like Daylon with Haden on the other side I will be very happy.
McFadden had a very good senior bowl. Showed good man skills and ball skills. Cannot complain about this pick at all.
In the 1980's we had Frank Minnefield(5'9") and Hanford Dixon(5'11") on the field.
In the 1980's we had Frank Minnefield(5'9") and Hanford Dixon(5'11") on the field.
1980's didn't have ticky tack defensive penalties nor Calvin Johnson, Branden Marshall, Andre Johnson..etc
Not that I don't like the pick. I think football is the one sport where old teams vs new team is no contest as athletes are far better now. (I would say the same about the Basketball). I actually like the guy because of his super quick feet and history as a WR.
Quote: He is 5'9 not 5'10 and back when people were drafting CB's this short the avg height of a WR was not near as high as it is now. Just look at our own WR corps.
You need to tell that to the first WR off the board that he's too short to play WR.. I'm sure he's going to drag that average back down by being 5'8"
You have people clamoring on how great Tavon Austin is going to be as well, even though he is a 5'8" wr.
You had people clamoring for the Browns to sign Cornerback Brent Grimes despite being 5'10" with a knee injury.
Arguing this is a bad pick for a CB because he's "too short" is just plain silly talk.
I'm not pleased with how this Draft is going... AS MANY OF YOU HAVE SAID, I think that the 2 guys we got are not the problem, but because we rush, NOT excitedly, to say "I like this guy" is the problem; None of us might have known What to expect from this Draft, but we're getting Plenty of That and no targeted "YES"s!
The New Banner/Lombardi/Chud Era of Drafting seems to have no plan or soul to it; All i can say about Barky is "Great, but i wish we could've moved down to get a 2nd rounder too." About McFadden all I can say is, "The experts and hosts covering the Draft feel the Browns could've got him in the 4th or even 5th Round".
Hardly a ringing endorsement for a wild, interesting, convincing draft. It could prove to be the best Draft we've ever had, but Honestly, does it feel that way right now? We have many concerns in other positions; Perhaps the Banner/Lombardi/Chud Era are taking their time not wanting to do anything too drastic, and, I suppose, that's okay...
If it works.
Right now, the lukewarm, "content thrill" of these picks and moves that could've been made to produce more has an aftertaste of quiet "hope" for me. After all that we've heard and wondered about Banner and Lombardi, in particular, it's surprising that This describes how some of us (many of us?) are left feeling going into the 4-7 Rounds...
In the 1980's we had Frank Minnefield(5'9") and Hanford Dixon(5'11") on the field.
1980's didn't have ticky tack defensive penalties nor Calvin Johnson, Branden Marshall, Andre Johnson..etc
Not that I don't like the pick. I think football is the one sport where old teams vs new team is no contest as athletes are far better now. (I would say the same about the Basketball). I actually like the guy because of his super quick feet and history as a WR.
I guess that could be true, but this talk of this being a bad pick because he's not tall enough is silly. Take a look at Tavon Austin who is a 5'8" WR who is highly touted and was the 8th pick in the draft. Take a look at the Browns fans who wanted the browns to sign Grimes. It's just silly talk. Too many people have had a defeatist outlook since we passed on their dream pick of Milliner.
Revis's Height: 5'11" Milliner Height: 6'0" Joe Haden Height: 5'11"
We addressed an area of need, passing on a talented kid with issues for a "safer" pick. I don't know what to make of McFadden. I'll have to reserve any judgement until the season starts. Hopefully he can be just plugged in to the starting role week 1 and secure,that position. We desparetly need to hit on the majority of these picks in the transition to a 3-4.
At least we are not seeing a QB drafted. Pick up your guys on defense this year and resign your key players next year, then sell the house on a QB in round 1 if Weeden doesn't cut it in the new system!
The thing that concerns me the most is after they picked Mingo, I read a Chud quote "you don't need great corners if you have a pass rush" (I think it was Chud). Then they come back in the third round and take a corner. I guess he reconsidered his stand on being average at corner. I'm not sure that either of our two picks are going to be impact players this year. However, I don't think there are many impact players in the whole draft. Past the two number one picks (OT) I think everyone else has upside and downside. I guess we are going to have get lucky.
That's why the draft is no perfect science. You and some others range from a horrible to a awful draft so far. Me.....I feel like we couldn't have done any better...I'm flipping ecstatic!!! I feel these fit perfect and although always not the sexy pick nor what WE WOULD ALWAYS DO...they got great people and players that FIT what they feel goes with our system. I feel real good about what Chud, Banner and Lombardi are doing.
- very aware zone-CB - good coverage most of the time - aggressive/competitive playing style - good tackler for his size - plays the ball well - good timing to defelct passes - obvious football intelligence, good positioning, has some FS game to him (who knows, maybe that's the plan?)
Negatives:
- got owned by WR on runs to his side, this will get magnified in the NFL - height issues came up a couple of times in that game, but he compensates well with his timing and playing the ball. Otoh, the NFL has smarter WRs too - didn't play any bump'n'run, strictly a zone-CB, looks more like a Tampa 2 corner - recovery speed seems ordinary - not sure he can hold his own on the outside in the NFL considering the above
I don't see much upside left, he is what he is and has already maxed out his AVG athletic potential...the good thing to that is that he should be day 1 ready as he is WELL AHEAD in terms of game intelligence, technique and tackling. He's pretty much a finished product with a capped ceiling but high floor. Safe, solid pick
Sit Skrine right beside Marecic. Proven non-starters. This kid with a "hurry up" defensive blitzrush might be a "possession defender", maybe in nickel. A takeaway ballhawk to undercut routes on rushed throws would be great. As opposed to the watch and chase secondary we have had recently (watch the catch & chase the receiver). Welcome aboard and good luck!
you've got him nailed pretty well, though I have seen him fight through the WR's and make plays in other games in the run game (so less worried about that angle).
he's not as tall as some of the other CB's but he's just as heavy with that extra bulk in muscle. I wouldn't want him as a CB1, but that's not what we are asking of him to do.
i liked him better than Slay, Amerson, BWW, etc. so I'm pretty happy we picked him. Had Poyer ahead of him, but not a ton.
I now hope we pickup Will Davis (CB, Utah State) with one of our late picks.
As I try to get up to speed on McFadden here are some things I like. He started 41 of the 51 games he appeared in. Lots of on-field experience there. He played in a pass heavy conference so he's seen a lot of variations of passing offense. He is an ex-wide receiver who uses those skill when he's around the ball. He has a reputation for reading the screen pass and breaking it up effectively. Tape shows him lined up in man-to-man and off coverage, I think he's familiar with the responsibilities of both. His Dad played MLB so he been exposed to type of preparation needed to be a professional athlete.
Ironically,he's about the same size as Joe Haden, If he technique is sound I can live with that.
DjangoBrown, here is what I saw. A quarterback make inaccurate throws when hurried. I saw a DB who is not afraid to tackle. I saw an offensive use their receivers to set picks in order to free up the guy covered by McFadden. Toward the end I saw a QB hesitate throwing in McFadden's area. I saw a CB play both zone and man-to-man. I saw a receiver who knew how to block. After seeing this brief video, I like McFadden. I wonder why he was projected to go 4th or 5th round.
Quote: Sit Skrine right beside Marecic. Proven non-starters. This kid with a "hurry up" defensive blitzrush might be a "possession defender", maybe in nickel. A takeaway ballhawk to undercut routes on rushed throws would be great. As opposed to the watch and chase secondary we have had recently (watch the catch & chase the receiver). Welcome aboard and good luck!
I disagree. McFadden and Skrine are similar styles. Go back and take a look at videos on Skrine while in college. As someone pointed out above, neither guy is a #1. I bet McFadden struggles his first year too. McFadden will learn, as did Skrine, you need even tighter coverage and how to bait a QB.
Quote: The thing that concerns me the most is after they picked Mingo, I read a Chud quote "you don't need great corners if you have a pass rush" (I think it was Chud). Then they come back in the third round and take a corner. I guess he reconsidered his stand on being average at corner. I'm not sure that either of our two picks are going to be impact players this year. However, I don't think there are many impact players in the whole draft. Past the two number one picks (OT) I think everyone else has upside and downside. I guess we are going to have get lucky.
You still need good, solid corners, just maybe not top of the draft guys,.
You also need enough good ones to cover 4 NFL receivers.
One thing to remember about rush vs cover ....... there are 4 receivers (potentially) and if you go strictly for coverage, you need 4 plus level corners. If you rush the passer, there's only 1 QB. Rush him, bother him, and give him trouble and coverage becomes less the issue.
Quote: I now hope we pickup Will Davis (CB, Utah State) with one of our late picks.
FYI, he got already picked by th Dolphins who traded back into the 3rd for him. Dolphins got CB J.Taylor, G/T D.Thomas and CB W.Davis on day 2....nice haul, although I think they did not have to trade up for Davis, who's incredibyl raw. But there was a CB tun and they probablygot antsy
Lets Just hope the Cleveland Browns are taking the best available on there board.In opinion some one on the Cleveland Browns roster will step up as corner back and Leon McFadden will come in on nickel.Just opinion,Leon McFadden will be great at zone defenses.
Quote: In 1999 we took a 5'8 CB Daylon McCutcheon who was a staple for 5 to 7 years in the secondary. If Leon McFadden plays like Daylon with Haden on the other side I will be very happy.
McFadden had a very good senior bowl. Showed good man skills and ball skills. Cannot complain about this pick at all.
Not that this guy comps to Frank Minnifield but............
Minni was 5'9" and 140 in college. No doubt he put on some weight by the time he played for the Browns but he didn't add any inches to that 5'9" stat.
Different time, different league. Back then you were allowed to play bump and run and really guard a receiver. Now if you LOOK at one it's interference. Also, back then there was the "smurf" revolution. A lot of receivers were under 6'0. Houston and the Redskins were rife with them. Now, a small receiver like that is a specialty player for the most part.
How is this kid going to cover 6'0 to 6'-4" receivers that are faster than him?
I have no real problem with the pick. He's depth and MAYBE an eventual slot corner. He'll probably play on special teams. But I sure don't see him as an immediate starter. Skrine is a LOT faster and he's got a couple years under his belt. Either one of the 2nd tier FA's we signed, or Buster Skrine, will start unless we sign/trade for another corner.
Everything I've read, this was a good pick for us. I follow a lot of talent evaluators from various organizations on twitter, everyone said this was a good pick.
These are the same guys that said Billy Wynn was a better pick than Hughes....and that was dead on.
So I am on board with this one as well. So far a nice draft for the new regime.
Quote: The thing that concerns me the most is after they picked Mingo, I read a Chud quote "you don't need great corners if you have a pass rush" (I think it was Chud). Then they come back in the third round and take a corner. I guess he reconsidered his stand on being average at corner.
Drafting a corner in the third round to be your starter is the definition of banking on having average corners.
that is all.
