Figured we needed a thread to talk about this position since Jamie got cut.

What to do with Kirksey?

Kirksey will remain this year.

He'll be cut or traded after the season. I would bet on that.

Whenever Kirksey is gone is when the second linebacker spot will be addressed.

Jamie Collins is gone so if we don't pick up a LBer in FA then we should take a look Devin White or Devin Bush at #17 or the best DT on the board ...

I agree. However, we might think Mosley is a serious option? I also think Peppers would excel in that hybrid / safety role. We have options and we have the cap and picks.

Draft his replacement, sign Landon and play either Peppers or Landon at LB imo

I am thinking Mosley is a serious target.

Hmmm... Maybe we just sign Terrell Suggs for our 2019-2020 Championship title run... than we replace him for our 2020-2021 Championship title run.

You are going to be seriously disappointed if you think that.

This is not a horrible idea and probably what I prefer.

I like your positive thinking LOL

Yeah, I agree...

Didn't say I was hoping he would be, just thinking out loud. If he is not, I would hardly be disappointed.

Good luck with that.

I wonder if Avery is penciled in to take Collins place since we get Kirksey back ....

If we get a shot at White ... me thinks Joe becomes a situational dude at best ... he’s not a good tackler and he’s not good at shedding blocks and that adds up to being not good against the run ...

IMO Joe is way overrated in these here parts ...

Lots of options and lots of cap space .... and we could do a lot worse than Joe ... he is very very smart and excels in pass coverage ...

A few things I've posted about over the last few months are signing KJ Wright, and drafting Devin White or Devin Bush. I don't think White will be around when we draft, and I'm not sure we'd trade up to get him. I could see a Mark Barron signing as well (or in lieu of Wright)

Devin Bush I commented on in the Dorsey's Choice thread:



I think Terrill Hanks from Buffalo and/or Emeke Egbule from Houston would both be good mid-late round additions as well.

Wilks is obviously the key figure here.

However, Avery is going to play. He had an outstanding rookie year.

Kirksey, hard to say. Have to see how he looks coming back after injury. Wilks needs to see him.

FA and the draft plus possible trades.

My guess is Duke will be packaged in a trade. To who and when I don't know.

Dorsey has 10 draft picks and 80 mil in cap space.

We will be adding probably close to 15 new players.

Joe is a solid player. However, when a change is made at DC?

Hard to say how the new guy views his players.

GW loved Schobert. When he went down the defense went with him.

My thoughts are find good players to compete and then sort it out.

Last year JD brought in a bunch of db's and played the best guys.

I like Mosely. But it sounds like the Ravens will lock him up.

I would love to get Devin White. Love it. I see him as a perfect fit for our defense. He is that guy who can cover sideline to sideline. Amazing pursuit. He eats up ground.

Dorsey will take care of it. Of that I have no doubt.

No offense, but I think that is a horrible idea. Drafting his replacement and also signing an expensive FA like Landon Collins to play out of position is not a good idea.

Teams that got cute w/their linebackers like the Chargers and Rams paid dearly for it when they faced New England. It's a copy-cat league and playing DBs at LBer is not a good idea because other teams will use the same strategy that the Pats did.

Peppers (or Collins) is/are not just some DB who is pretending to be a linebacker though.

I should have said that I didn't understand the part about drafting Kirksey's replacement. Maybe CHS was saying Kirksey was a backup so we can draft a backup linebacker?

I pretty much agree. Position changes don't usually work, though I always thought Cribbs would have been a HOF type safety.

We messed up there.

Like I said.........no offense. I'm not dogging you.

I think it is unwise to play guys out of position. I think there are good reasons why Collins and Barron were not retained.

Collins is a safety who lacks coverage ability. Physical strong safeties are about the easiest guys to find. They are all over the place.

Barron was a safety who got moved to LBer because he couldn't cover well enough. He was exposed against the run.

I prefer Joe S. to either of those guys. He plays the pass better and while he has a hard time shedding blocks, he is a bit better against the run.

Peppers is the hybrid. I would put him next to Schobert and Collins at safety.

All of this is assuming Kirksey isn’t around. If he is, maintain the status quo one more year.

Drafting White or signing Mosely would be much better options.

Going to the theatre, so I'll be on tomorrow for more clarification, but draft a LB who you can groom to take over Kirksey's position in a year or two, but still provides immediate depth.

Also New England very rarely plays with three off the line linebackers (Not sure how people want to classify Simon) and use Chung as a linebacker.

If Brady is as good as advertised, why in God's name would someone play 3 linebackers against him? But Vers does have a point that the Pats cut up the nickel, but through the ground primarily, not through the air.

I think with Collins gone, we will likely draft 2 LB's this year.

As others mentioned, we gotta start thinking replacements for all our current starters (Kirksey & Schobert).

Turk, I don't think we need to replace Schobert.

What don't you like about him?

It's not so much that they're changing positions, it's that the position of linebacker has changed. You can't put out three or four linebackers when the offense is putting out 3 WRs, you're going to get torched in the air. And if a defense puts out 5 DBs to match against 3+ WRs, then they just opened up the running game? So what's a defense to do? Exactly what they did in the 70's and 80's, by playing a safety in the box. If you look back at Jabrill when he played at Michigan, he plays that safety/linebacker role. When BB was here, he called that position between safety and SAM linebacker the star position. Saban took it a step further once he got to the college game and will pull out the will linebacker for another DB called money.

Anyway, the point is, as offenses adapt to more modern schemes, so do defenses. Everyone plays someone at the linebacker/safety position now. BB does it a lot with Chung.

You make valid points, but what you are failing to address is that when defenses evolve, so do offenses.

People become enamored w/trends as if they are the end-all answers. I think one should always be on the cutting edge, but going all in on trends is a mistake.

Kaep was all that. Then defenses figured him out and he sucked. The Wildcat was all that and defenses adjusted and it is now next to meaningless. The Wide 9 was a rage and offenses adjusted and it is now exploited.

The Chargers D w/all those DBs against Indy was thought to be brilliant. Here comes NE and they pounded the Chargers on the ground and with passes to the flat because the weak-ass LBer [sic] had to sell out to stop the run.

The Rams D was said to be great because of their acquisitions, but Barron was a huge liability against the power run game because he didn't have the size to combat huge blockers.

New ideas are cool and some are incorporated. But, they are not the end all and too many people who never played the game and only know the game through tweets and reading don't realize that.

Why? Because Baltimore has stated they are interested in Signing him back?

Maybe and maybe not.

Why?

Because they also said AT THE RIGHT PRICE.

We'll see. I'm betting Mosley says EAT DIRT when he sees the money they offer.

No doubt is a game of strategy. The team that makes the best moves and countermoves is usually the one to take the King.

Well Collins comes at no surprise, I thought the emergence of Avery made him obsolete.

LBs, we are looking at Devin White and Sweat in the draft. Who knows in rounds 2 and beyond. Trust Dorsey of course.

I like KJ Wright from Seattle in FA along with Mosely from Ravens. Be assured the odds we sign a FA LB is pretty high.

Yeah, I don't think it is an accident that BB and the Pats either win it all or are in the mix each and every year.

Did you ever watch the NFL Networks Football Life episode that addressed the Browns move from Cleveland? It was more of a tribute to Belichick and the staff that he built here in Cleveland. Saban, Ferentz, Ozzie, Dimitroff, Pioli, Savage, Mangini, Jim Schwartz, Lombardi, etc were all part of the Browns staff. They interviewed those guys and many spoke of how detailed and thorough BB was. It was a great inside look on how to run a football organization. I read something recently about how the greatness of New England was built from the ashes of BB's time in Cleveland.

I'm getting off track. I just think we should be careful about going all-in on some of the recent tendencies. I think it's wise to incorporate the new ideas, but I think it's even more wise to figure out how to exploit the teams that heavily rely on them. That's what the greatest coach in the history of the NFL does.

Montez Sweat is an edge rusher, but we should absolutely draft him at 17.

TJ Edwards is my favorite middle day prospect I've seen so far. He's not going to blow anyone away with his athleticism, but the man is great at reading the offense pre snap. I can't remember a college linebacker who can diagnose plays as quickly as he can.

I just don't think he is THAT good. As a 4-3 MLB, I expect a lot more. I want an enforcer. Someone who can impose their will, especially in the run game.

I just think he's average in a lot of things, a la Andra Davis, DQwell Jackson..

He’s also excellent in coverage in a league that passes more than ever.

Someone posted some PFF stats during the season of Schobert, that in a typical cryptic fashion gave the impression that he was excellent in coverage. I asked the board to give an explanation of PFFs breakdown, and know one knew what those stats actually meant.

IMHO, I wouldn't use the word excellent in regards to his cover skills. Per my eye test, I still see him as average.

yeah you are right and I'm thinking more on the lines of a Von Miller type than Garrett so I guess mentally I got him as LB note, Avery is a LB also and an "edge" guy.

Do you know if he is a 2 point or 3 point guy?

I like players from Wisconsin, they just seem to have that toughness about them.

Edwards can be a 4th round or later guy. Not many look that far. But you can't go wrong in the later rounds.
Beginning would have to go through Special teams!

I always watch Big Ten Football and I am a Buckeye fan but I also notice talent on the other rosters and I love T.J. Edwards and believe he could much more than a ST's player kind of like Avery, if we were to draft him I would be a happy camper

For a day 3 pick, I've been looking more at LB Tre Watson of Maryland. I'd post a youtube link, but don't want to get suspended for the music with the video.

Guy has good instincts, he can hit hard, and isn't a liability in coverage as some others are.


Also wanted to comment on TJ Edwards... I just think he is too slow. He'd be a liability in coverage, and could only play zone. If I were an offensive coordinator, I'd have my QB pick on him all day by getting speed to come his way. Hard to say this because I do love his tape, but I'm gonna pass.

If we want a mid round LB I'm still an advocate of Long out of WVU. Guy plays like a demon, quick enough too.

+1

If we pass on him @80 ... The Ravens will take him @85.

I would have ...
VOSEAN JOSEPH FLORIDA LB (WILL) Just above Long for the 80th selection.

He's measured at 6'1 - 230 lbs, but he looks sooooo small to me on tape. It concerns me.

Does he play the run well? We need a ferocious passrusher and runstopper? Is he a STs guy?

Bush and Long are 5'11 and under 230 lbs too.

Seeing how John Dorsey has done things since he's been here I'm sure he has a list of potential players in each round he would like to draft. I have faith he will get the right guys for our positions of need.

Just clicking:

I would look more closer on:

Blake Cashman Minnesota
Ty Summers TCU
Ryan Connely Wisconsin
Emeke Egbule, Houston

Vosean Joseph, Florida
Justin Hollins, Oregon
Gerri Green, Mississippi State
Dru Tranquill Notre Dame, Diam anything on this guy?

But the kid I want us to get as I'm thinking of that conversion to SS instead of LB.
Gary Johnson, Texas

jmho

I'm not sure I entirely agree with you on his instincts, but I do like the way he plays/his attitude on the field.

My initial thought on "instincts" is he kind of strikes me as a guy who could benefit from not being in school from a football standpoint. Not having to worry about classes and being able to hone in on film study could let him flourish.

He does have a pretty good feel in coverage in space and within MD's scheme, but his recognition of what opponents are doing seems to be lacking at times.

He is interesting. I need to see more.

Thanks for looking.

Found some highlights w/o audio. Instincts look pretty good here. Temple was the game that had me wondering about them.

Thanks for sharing! Love how the video highlights where he is on the field.

Even more excited about him than I was from another video I watched.

It is still okay to speculate bro, even if another team selects players we might be high on ... It is still of interest to see if they play as projected.

2019 NFL Draft: Why Devin White is like Myles Jack, Devin Bush is like Jaylon Smith and other LB comparisons

Plus the former Washington star with similarities to Eric Kendricks and more on 2019's top LB prospects

Chris Trapasso


This year's linebacker class doesn't stack up to what the 2018 class provided: three first-round studs and the eventual Defensive Rookie of the Year in Round 2.
Most of value at this position resides later in the draft -- early on Day 3 -- when somewhat raw but talented eventual starters will be available, and it's time to give the top linebacker prospects an NFL comparison.

It's important to remember NFL comparisons for draftees don't intend to guarantee a prospect will have the exact same career as his professional counterpart. In this series, I'll go through the top prospects at every position and give NFL comparisons -- some current players, some former. These comparisons are not based on size. They're almost solely stylistic.

(Prospects are listed in the order they appear in my draft rankings.)

Ben Burr-Kirven, Washington
NFL comparison: Eric Kendricks
Kendricks was my top off-ball linebacker in the 2015 class for three reasons. His smooth athleticism, coverage skills, and polished ability to avoid and beat blocks en route to the ball carrier. When watching BBK, I see a similar, NFL-ready linebacker, and he tested better than Kendricks at the combine. Neither are big for the linebacker spot, but the modern-day player at the position shouldn't be much more than 230 pounds anyway. Yes, there are times when gigantic blockers engulf both Kendricks and BBK, but there are more instances in which their polish, awareness, and athleticism create big plays for the defense against the run and pass.

Devin White, LSU
NFL comparison: Myles Jack
Like Jack, White is a create-a-player type of linebacker, a chiseled 240-pounder with incendiary athleticism, hard-hitting tendencies, and scary, sideline-to-sideline speed. Both are better at delivering a major jolt to offensive linemen scraping to the second level than they are efficiently shedding them, but the physicality and aggression aspects of their games stand out in every contest. White's tackling and coverage skills improved in 2018 but, like Jack, at times, his engine is revving so much that he arrives on the scene out of control which leads to some misses in space.

Devin Bush, Michigan
NFL comparison: Jaylon Smith
Before his devastating knee injury in his final college game at Notre Dame, Smith was a missile on the football field. Whether it was chasing down an outside run or crashing a shallow cross, speed was Smith's greatest attribute as a linebacker. After a long rehab process, Smith finally recaptured that speed in 2018 for the Cowboys, and it led to a breakout season. Bush is the same type of linebacker, a player predicated on speed, speed, and more speed. Neither are excellent block-shedders. Most of the time it doesn't matter because they get to the ball-carrier before blockers can carry out their assignment. Because of their natural ability to simply run extremely fast, both Smith and Bush are assets in coverage too.

Terrill Hanks, New Mexico State
NFL comparison: Zach Brown
Hanks is the enigma of this linebacker class. Playing at New Mexico State, there weren't a lot of eyeballs on him -- relative to some of the other top players at his position. And while he looks exceptionally fast on film ... he ran 4.98 at the combine. He is a space linebacker with plenty of experience fighting through traffic on quick screens to the outside and is a no-nonsense gap-filler too. Hanks will add an intimidating presence to any linebacker room at 6-foot-2 and 242 pounds with a wingspan just over 80 inches. Like Brown, Hanks is mostly a linear rocket than anything else but has the athleticism and instincts to create high-level flashes in all areas at the next level.

Drue Tranquill, Notre Dame
NFL comparison: Shaq Thompson
I landed on this comparison because Thompson entered the NFL as a first-round pick in 2015 a little undersized and with a specialty in coverage thanks in large part to time spent as a safety early in his college career. All of that applies to Tranquill, who, had he entered the NFL about a decade ago would've likely be labeled as a strong safety. But as we're seeing today, the NFL is becoming more positionless. Off-ball linebackers are essentially strong safeties and vice versa. Tranquill doesn't have the strength or polish beating blocks to flourish against the run. He is a stellar coverage linebacker thanks to his route-recognition skills, twitch, and overall athletic talents.

Dakota Allen, Texas Tech
NFL comparison: Alex Anzalone
I have "quicker than fast" written in my notes for Allen, and that aligned with his combine workout. His three cone and short shuttle times were in the 86th and 94th percentile respectively. His 4.77 time in the 40 was in the 29th percentile. Like Anzalone when he came out of Florida, Allen is incredibly comfortable in space because of his ability to rapidly change directions en route to the football. Neither Anzalone nor Allen are squeaky clean block-shedders. They rely on their athleticism to avoid blocks to make plays against the run. Allen doesn't have the speed to cover tight ends down the seam but is a good matchup defender against backs and should be an asset in zone at the next level.

Vosean Joseph, Florida
NFL comparison: Kwon Alexander
Alexander and Joseph are fine athletes in every imaginable way. As a prospect, Alexander was relatively refined beating blocks too, just like Joseph is. To me, this is a home run comparison because of their most glaring weaknesses. Both are very inconsistent with their tackling and occasionally overrun their gaps -- the latter is usually a byproduct of their dynamic athleticism.

Germaine Pratt, NC State
NFL comparison: Zach Cunningham
A tall, physical, no-wasted-movement linebacker with a need to improve block-disengagement skills. That's a one-sentence scouting report on Pratt and Cunningham. Both were productive leaders of their defenses in college. When flying around in a straight line, they have the speed to be high-quality playmakers and will deliver big hits on running backs relatively often. Pratt offers a little more sideline-to-sideline range than Cunningham but both will make their money between the tackles on running plays and when a short pass is thrown.
Bobby Okereke, Stanford

NFL comparison: Kiko Alonso
At nearly 6-2 and with a wingspan just under 83 inches, Okereke has arguably the largest tackling radius of any linebacker in this class. Comparably to Alonso, Okereke is a game-changer against the run and as a blitzer. While they both have the athletic gifts to make the occasional play in coverage, it's not a forte. Alonso gets into trouble occasionally when he either takes an extra second to diagnose or has to guess where the ball is going. Okereke has the same issues. Like Alonso, Okereke should be a good albeit unspectacular starter for a long time in the NFL.

Mack Wilson, Alabama
NFL comparison: Alec Ogletree
With a sleek frame for the linebacker position, good on-field athleticism, yet a general dislike of contact, Ogletree went in the first round of the 2014 Draft. He and Wilson tested as similar athletes at their respective combines, and while Wilson flashed plus athletic traits in coverage during his stint at Alabama, he clearly wasn't big fan of taking on and shedding blocks against the run either. Both linebackers can make splash plays when there's a clear lane in front of them to the ball but, like Ogletree, Wilson will enter the NFL lacking aggressiveness and the refinement needed to defeat blocks.


https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news...lb-comparisons/

Ben Burr-Kirven is Scooby Wright 2.0

J/C

I just want to be on record before the draft. A lot has changed since this thread was started. Our biggest need went from DT to SS to no immediate need and just adding depth. At this point addressing LB in the draft sooner than might have been anticipated is not out of the question. We have no chance at White Bush or possibly Wilson.

I think I would wait until round 3 but my pick would be Blake Cashman OLB, Minnesota. He's very hardnosed and deceptively athletic. His tape is solid and he opened some eyes with his combine results.

Blake Cashman scouting report

I don't know much about this draft, but I've watched this guy. He really struggled to get off blocks in college and it will be worse in the NFL in my opinion. Not a fan of this dude.

That's a valid concern. No prospect is perfect. I think it can be improved with coaching. He compensates for it with instincts and range, often beating blockers to spots to make plays.

I should clarify that I haven't studied him. I just watched him in 2 games.

If you aren't good at getting off blocks in college, theres a very slim chance that it will change in the pros.

I'm hoping that Mack Wilson will be there. Possibly a kid that we can throw in a 5th or 6th rounder to move up a 4-5 spots and take him in that 2nd round.

I didn't add him in take a closer look in my previous post cause he is one who posters know cause of his Alabama accolades. But GM's look all over. But Wilson is a good football player and he will be there in the mid 2nd round.

jmho

David Long, WVU and Tre Watson, MD are the two I'm liking the most at this point with value somewhat in mind. Of course, media projected rankings might be way off.

Josiah Tauaefa, UTSA is a name I came across recently. Was on one of the top 5 at the position lists at NFL.com. I wasn't that impressed against Arizona St, but he does have some flash plays. He's a converted DE, so he's pretty good with his hands, but seems to have some limitations in space. Is overaggressive at times, but I prefer that to the opposite. Could be a core special teamer.

I try to avoid speaking in absolutes. Yes, the player has limitations but he also has abilities. Honestly, how many players come into the league with the toolkit of Khalil Mack?. He may never be a classic stack and shed linebacker but professional coaching and focus on technique should result in improvement. It's inaccurate to say that he can't get off of blocks, he does. At this point its not the strongest part of his game. As with any prospect, you evaluate both the proficiencies and the deficiencies. I think the team will address LB. Cashman is my candidate considering the spread offense, RPO era that the NFL is in now.


Another scouting profile on Cashman

Grimm I like some of those guys as well. I gravitate toward Cashman because our LB need is more on the outside. I'm aware the Watson and perhaps Long can play outside also.

What's ironic to me is I mentioned Tauaefa about a month ago as somebody I thought could add depth at MLB. Of course, the response that I got was that he was not worthy of a fifth-round pick where I suggested we look at him. LOL

I'm not a Cashman fan. He's kind of the Darrius Heyward-Bey of LBs to me. Looks great for the first 75% of the play, but there's just something lacking at the end. DHB's "short arms" show up when he gator arms passes. Cashman's show up in how he can't keep guys off his body. DHB's being more figurative.

Cashman looks good in space, but we already have Schobert. He doesn't penetrate as well as Joe, though, and gives very little in the run game between the tackles.

He has decent behind the line production, but for the most part it looked like unblocked or clean up variety. Rarely was it because he beat somebody. He does have a good motor.

He's kind of Darron Lee-lite to me. Similar athlete, but not the playmaker. I'd rather slide the Jets a later pick for the original. Cashman in the 5th, sure. 3rd or earlier, no thanks.

I'd almost use him as a big nickle rather than a "true" LB. He could be a weapon if he improved at disguising his blitzes. Might be able to overpower WRs blocks unlike guys inside.

As far as the "Flowin' Samoan" (Tauaefa), I don't think I'd use him at MLB. I'd use him like Avery as a rusher. Not leave him in coverage at all though, or at least only sparingly. Special teams is the big draw for me. He plays like his hair is on fire every snap.

Glad to see Tre Watsons name being mentioned on the board now.

I respect differing opinions. I don't think he's perfect but I like how he plays in space. I'm not sure how the Browns will deploy their LBs so maybe he fits or not.

Oh, I'm not sure the Internet is the place for you. I don't think we do that here.






(kidding!!)

Fair enough. I'm not sure what exactly Dorsey, Freddie, and Wilks will cook up.