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Posted By: cfrs15 Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:15 AM
Nice to get a win.

If we play like we did against the Jets next week against the Rams it’s going to be a boat race.
Posted By: Swish Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:16 AM
post game thoughts:

we're gonna get smoked if we play like this against the Rams.
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:17 AM
Posted By: YTownBrownsFan Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:18 AM
Nice to win by 20 on MNF.

We still have a lot to work on.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:18 AM
I'm not sure whether to be happy or concerned.
Posted By: VarmintKong Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:19 AM
How many passing yards did the Jets have in the 1st half?
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:19 AM
Originally Posted By: Swish
post game thoughts:

we're gonna get smoked if we play like this against the Rams.


vs Rams (2-0) - SNF
at Ravens (2-0)
at 49ers (2-0) - MNF
vs Seahawks (2-0)
at Patriots (2-0)
Posted By: jaybird Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:19 AM
Glad we won... lots to work on... defense looked great... offense flashed... baker needs to get better... offensive play calling needs to get better... Garrett needs to clean up penalties
Posted By: pfm1963 Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:19 AM
If we play like this next week, the Rams will eat us alive.
Posted By: bonefish Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:19 AM

MacFarland called a good game.
Posted By: jaybird Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:19 AM
Originally Posted By: Rishuz
I'm not sure whether to be happy or concerned.


20 point win... be happy....
Posted By: jeepnstein Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:19 AM
I'm concerned. I think Williams had Bakers number all night.
Posted By: leadtheway Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:20 AM
Offensive play calling like this will not work against an nfl team. It worked against Miami north but rams defense will obliterate baker. Our front 7 are much improved as is special teams. Our secondary has some issues especially tackling. 1-1 looks a lot better than 0-2. Hopefully we are fully healthy next week.
Posted By: jaybird Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:20 AM
Originally Posted By: bonefish

MacFarland called a good game.


I was pleasantly surprised
Posted By: AlwaysABrownsFan Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:20 AM
Gonna have to play a LOT better real soon.
Posted By: pfm1963 Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:20 AM
With a 20 point lead in the 4th quarter, what doesn't Kitchens understand about shortening the game? My patience with Freddy is getting thin.
Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:21 AM
This was the perfect game for this team to regain some confidence.

Not always pretty but another step in the right direction.

Some really great highlights to watch tomorrow.
Posted By: Halfback32 Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:21 AM
post game thought .. We won by 20, why do I feel as though we played a poor game ...
Posted By: DeputyDawg Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:22 AM
We were less sloppy and undisciplined.

We were still really sloppy and undisciplined.

Without major improvement we'll get killed next week. We won't be playing against a team without it's best defensive player and it's 1st and 2nd string QB's.
Posted By: pfm1963 Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:22 AM
Originally Posted By: Halfback32
post game thought .. We won by 20, why do I feel as though we played a poor game ...


Because, offensively, we did.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:22 AM
Originally Posted By: bonefish

MacFarland called a good game.


Huge improvement from week 1.
Posted By: Punchsmack Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:23 AM
Originally Posted By: Rishuz
I'm not sure whether to be happy or concerned.


Both.

Pessimistic thought: Miami beats the Jets tonight. Njoku got smoked. Williams toyed with Mayfield all night. Kitchens calling a pass that late in the game which got Mayfield sacked was awful.

Positive thought: Defense played well. OBJ is a stud. Got the win. Offense struggled, but Higgins, Hilliard and Njoku were out.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:23 AM
Originally Posted By: Halfback32
post game thought .. We won by 20, why do I feel as though we played a poor game ...


Because we did?
Posted By: devicedawg Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:24 AM
I'll admit I'm concerned. We don't seem focused. I do think playing GW had a factor tonight. We are playing like we expect to win, not playing like we're trying to win. I think we'll get it right but I'm concerned.
Posted By: YTownBrownsFan Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:25 AM
Myles Garrett: 5 tackles, 3 sacks, 5 QB hits, and 3 TFL. Even with penalties, that's still a man size game.
Posted By: The Collector Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:26 AM
Mcfarland was right... Baker looking for the homerun ball on every play.

kid's got to settle down and let the game come to him. And I think williams had kitchen's number.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:29 AM
Originally Posted By: devicedawg
I'll admit I'm concerned. We don't seem focused. I do think playing GW had a factor tonight. We are playing like we expect to win, not playing like we're trying to win. I think we'll get it right but I'm concerned.


The way Baker is playing this year is the way I was hoping he'd play last year and vice versa. I think his head is scrambled between playing with house money last year and being taught to think the game this year. No more playing off instinct.
Posted By: lampdogg Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:30 AM
What the hell was that sack all about on our final offensive series?
Are we trying to get Baker hurt?

Like Booger said, run the ball, don't take chances with long-developing plays when we're up by 20.

Seibert and the Hammer kicked well, we finally can cover kicks, too.

Baker was up and down. Even my wife said early in the game, "he's waiting too long to throw it", and she doesn't even know what a first down is!
Posted By: DogNDC Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:31 AM
Yup.. Baker throwing for home run ball and not running Chubb!! And those are Freddy Kitchen problems.
Posted By: leadtheway Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:32 AM
Baker has regressed into a inaccurate gunslinging turnover machine. He’s in a precarious time right now. FK needs to prove he’s the guy to coach him. I think Wiley was right. Zampese had more to do with it. Freddie hasn’t done anything that shows he was even remotely the right pick. We need to be a power running team that has big play ability off the play action . This air raid needs to die with fire. Baker needs to learn to check down and when the ball needs to come out.
Posted By: DogNDC Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:33 AM
You THINK Williams had Freddy's numbner?? Williams out coached him for the whole first half.. Freddy and Baker do not have patience.
Posted By: CalDawg Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:33 AM
We won.

Front seven looked good.

People ragging on Myles was beyond absurd.

LBs looked good in space.

CBs did not.

Baker looked like a confused rookie, holding on to the ball too long, missing open reads, throwing inaccurately. He now has twice as many INTs as TDs so far this year. He made a few good throws, but overall, he looked out of sorts all night long. I hope he pulls it together soon.

Chubb is solid.

Pharoh Brown is tall. That is all.

OBJ made a nice catch and run for a TD.

Landry was open a lot, rarely spotted or thrown to.

Freddie is coaching like a rookie, particularly getting Baker sacked with under 2:00 to go and with a 20 point lead.

We're not going 0-16.

I wonder if this team can beat a team with a winning record.
Posted By: DogNDC Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:35 AM
No Leadway, everyone wanted to say Wiley has sour grapes!! But he was right. Freddy is calling some crap and Baker is not smart enough to check down or take the short route
Posted By: northlima dawg Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:38 AM
Originally Posted By: Rishuz
Originally Posted By: Halfback32
post game thought .. We won by 20, why do I feel as though we played a poor game ...


Because we did?


Too many penalties
Didn’t run Chubb enough at the end
Baker at times was confused
Questionable play calling

However, we had more talent and made a couple big plays.

Now comes a stretch of games that will set the tone
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:39 AM
Not last year but the two years before we would have done anything for a win. Yet here we are complaining they are not good enough after a freaking win... boy how times change.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:41 AM
A most underwhelming win.

- Baker was off again.

- Offense as a whole seems completely discombobulated. No flow to it. Something is off.

- The big plays by OBJ were great to see and much needed. Hopefully, it kicks starts the offense.

- Myles Garrett seems like he is trying to show his "mean streak" and may be tired of the "plays too nice" label and getting penalized for the behavior.

- Denzel Ward seems out of sorts to start the season. Looks lost at times.

- Seibert did his job.

- Scottish Hammer did his job.

- Ogunjobi had a nice game

- Baker unnecessarily taking a hit with less than two minutes doesn't need to happen again.

- Freddie is new, glad he was hired and he needs to keep getting better each week.

If we play like this next Sunday the Rams will throttle us.

Good to get a win though.



Posted By: YTownBrownsFan Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:44 AM
Gillan with 5 of 6 punts inside the 20. Really nice job by the rookie.
Posted By: Homewood Dog Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:45 AM
We need to run the ball more to set the tone of the game and let the passing game feed off that. We are looking for the big play every down. Take what the D gives us on O. Establish a running game then use play action.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:46 AM
Agree with all that Milk except the Rams part.

I think we win next week. Call it a bettors gut instinct.
Posted By: devicedawg Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:46 AM
Originally Posted By: leadtheway
Baker has regressed into a inaccurate gunslinging turnover machine. He’s in a precarious time right now. FK needs to prove he’s the guy to coach him. I think Wiley was right. Zampese had more to do with it. Freddie hasn’t done anything that shows he was even remotely the right pick. We need to be a power running team that has big play ability off the play action . This air raid needs to die with fire. Baker needs to learn to check down and when the ball needs to come out.



I don't necessarily agree with everything in your post but I agree with the premise.

It's like we're still playing preseason games. I feel like we were outcoached, but we are definitely the more talented team with the ability to overcome being outcoached.
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:49 AM
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:51 AM
Originally Posted By: Rishuz
Call it a bettors gut instinct.


I can get on board with this. wink

Can't wait to see the line. I got the Browns at -3 and -3.5 on this one when it opened.
Posted By: EveDawg Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:52 AM
The D was stout. They kicked ass. I have zero complaints about that. I was very impressed with them, as a group.

On O I felt they needed to get a bit more creative with the play calls. Run Chubb more off tackle, sweeps, screens, or something. Up the gut was stuffed.

I felt Baker struggled, but, he played against a Superbowl winning DC who was scheming against his noobness. Like the commentators mentioned, the D showed one thing pre snap and something completely different post snap.

So he was confused much of the game. It was a learning experience. He can go ruminate on it. He had a lot of awesome throws regardless.

OBJ was stellar.

Garrett was stellar.

Most importantly WE WON!!

I know our schedule is tough coming up, but I feel like our D will keep us in it. Props to our DC Steve Wilks, who doesnt get enough credit.
Posted By: SuperBrown Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:55 AM
Originally Posted By: jeepnstein
I'm concerned. I think Williams had Bakers number all night.


Really???????



Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 04:00 AM
Some thoughts:

--The Jets were outmatched.

--We did mix in more personnel packages than last week. I'll be interested to see the percentages on that. But, it was nice to see less 11 personnel.

--Baker has a great arm. He rips the ball. It's so much stronger than I thought. His reading of the field is so slow. He is passing up wide open guys and forcing the ball into coverage. Think about these two plays...
On the pick, Landry was wide open underneath and Baker forces the ball into tight coverage to OBJ down the field. The play on which Njoku got hurt was maddening. He was wide open early. Baker holds the ball instead of getting it to him. He then checks down late to Njoku when he was covered and the latter was injured. All of this is dumb football.

--Freddie? Why pass the ball at the end? Baker almost got hurt on this play. Stupid.

--Myles was dominant, but he needs to be more disciplined.

--I love Chubb. He just does his job.

--OBJ made two spectacular plays and that is why you want him on your team.

--Seibert and the punter both had good games.

--The OL played well. They got more help this week, but they were better.

--Fewer penalties, so that was a step in the right direction.

--Burnett is playing better than advertised.

--Greedy played well. But, it's kinda hard to tell because of what was going on w/the Jets at qb. I want to compliment the D more, but that caveat looms.

--At the end of the day, it's a win. And no one looks at the tape at the end of the year when they examine your record.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 04:05 AM
Last year Baker was so decisive. Made quick reads and throws.

He seems so confused now. What has changed?
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 04:07 AM
Originally Posted By: Rishuz
Last year Baker was so decisive. Made quick reads and throws.

He seems so confused now. What has changed?


He’s trying to do too much. As others have said, he’s got guys open underneath and passes over them to try and make a play downfield.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 04:10 AM
He did that last year as well but because he was decisive and accurate they were completions even in tight windows.

Something is different. Thinking too much?
Posted By: DaveyD Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 04:11 AM
I think the Titans game set the tone with how to get Baker off kilter. Confuse him with various Defenses and make him go through his progressions. It was seen in the Jets game as well. I think we will see it from here on out.

Not crazy about the play calling. Last year there was some pretty imaginative play calling. This year, so far, not so much. Chubb is such a good running back, how he does get 25+ carries per game is beyond me.
Posted By: HotBYoungTurk Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 04:15 AM
Defensive front 7 played well. Need to hear more of Vernon's name.

Secondary.. ehh. Denzel Ward.. step it up. Robbie Anderson was working the secondary with a 2nd/3rd string QB.

Offensively -

Up 20, should have used Chubb more (again). And did Chubb finish the game okay? He got rocked by Adams, and ESPn cast ignored it.

Baker has to take the open man, especially if hes struggling to read the defense. Stop going deep. Up 20, should be dumping the ball off more than throwing downfield. Need to see that accuracy again, as I'm not seeing it this season.

O-line played okay.

Landry actually did a decent job returning punts. I liked it.
Posted By: Halfback32 Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 04:16 AM

I think Baker needs to get better.. He needs to see the field, see the open man and not try to force big plays all the time. I'm not saying he needs to be check down Charlie, but it seems as though last year he hit more easy plays. The Easy plays are still there, just have to find them and not worry about the Home Run.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 04:18 AM
I tried talking about this in the Scheme thread. I think that is part of it. I wonder...but am not sure...if his "getting away from football" was a mistake?

I kinda think he might struggle this year because it came too easy last year and he got so much attention. The key might be what he does next off-season. Does he get away from football again and live the life, or does he put in the extra work to truly try and improve on the nuances of the position?
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 04:19 AM
In his postgame presser Baker said that he needs to check down more and complete passes to move the chains. He is aware of the problem, whether it gets fixed remains to be seen (he said the same thing last year).
Posted By: devicedawg Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 04:19 AM
I don't know that he's necessarily slow in his reads, I think it seems like he's making the wrong reads. He's not confident and decisive as he was last season... Seems like he's trying not to screw up rather than just play.

We're good enough to overcome this vs the jets, but that might be a different story vs a team like the Patriots.
Posted By: devicedawg Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 04:28 AM
The offensee seems better when Higgins is around. Baker struggled when he was out last year...
Posted By: clwb419 Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 04:29 AM
+Excellent special teams overall
+OL did well in pass pro
+Baker at times looked completely lost (edit: kudos to Williams for his game planning - expect more of it from other DCs)
+D played well, but how much was that the Browns and how much was that the Jets? (Jets had similar offensive numbers last week and they were on Qb3)
+The more relaxed D in the 2nd half I'm not a fan of, but I get it
+There was some really poor play calling on O. It was clear we were going to run most of the times we ran
+Garrett was great, but 4 more penalties (2 offsides, 2 roughing) is concerning

Happy with the W, but we need to improve as much between week 2 and 3 as we did between week 1 and 2 to win next week.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 04:36 AM
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
In his postgame presser Baker said that he needs to check down more and complete passes to move the chains. He is aware of the problem, whether it gets fixed remains to be seen (he said the same thing last year).


I honestly don't think this is the problem or at least it's not the problem I'm talking about.

Last year he was confident and decisive. He still missed checkdowns and easy throws but his tougher throws were on time and completions.

This year he seems to have lost the confidence and decisiveness. My question is why?

Vers, I'm not sure if it was him taking too much time away from football but maybe you're right. I feel the answer is more concrete/technical than that though. I just don't know what it is.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 04:45 AM
Originally Posted By: devicedawg
The offensee seems better when Higgins is around. Baker struggled when he was out last year...


Yes. Hollywood is very important to the flow and success of this offense.
Posted By: Pdawg Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 04:48 AM
Baker struggled tonight like most have said. I’m not too worried about his accuracy yet. I am worried about his decision making. He has got to take what the defense gives him.

Landry makes me completely comfortable when he returns punts. I wish Baker would have gotten the ball to him more tonight. since he was open.

OBJ was awesome. 5 rec. for 161. That one handed catch was amazing.

We have to get Chubb more involved.

I think the line played much better in pass pro. They had a couple of plays in the run game (Chubb’s TD run) where they looked good in the run game but were inconsistent.

Ratley looks fast and had one really nice run after catch.

The d line was outstanding. Myles was unblockable. 3 more sacks and a ton of pressure. I did see Vernon walk the RT back into the QB. Did he get 1/2 sack with Burnett?

Speaking of Burnett, he played a great game. Kirskey also impressed.
Posted By: devicedawg Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 04:50 AM
Quote:
Vers, I'm not sure if it was him taking too much time away from football but maybe you're right. I feel the answer is more concrete/technical than that though. I just don't know what it is.



I agree with this sentiment...
Posted By: YTownBrownsFan Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 04:50 AM
I thought that Schobert also played a great game.
Posted By: The Collector Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 04:51 AM
Originally Posted By: DogNDC
You THINK Williams had Freddy's numbner?? Williams out coached him for the whole first half.. Freddy and Baker do not have patience.


On a lot of the plays it felt bad. I don't think Williams had anyone dominated. But i do feel that there certainly were moments where williams got inside Freddy's head just a little bit and confused both freddy and baker.
Posted By: Pdawg Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 04:52 AM
Originally Posted By: YTownBrownsFan
I thought that Schobert also played a great game.


I did too. My post was kinda long so I skipped over some on defense.
Posted By: BirdDawg81 Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 05:02 AM
If the Jets has been at full strength this would feel a lot better. However, given their QB situation, it doesn’t feel so good.

So my thoughts on the game:

(1) Freddie has already racked up as many wins as Hue did in his first two seasons as a head coach. Thinking about that again makes me cringe and it makes me feel bad for Dolphins fans who are witnessing the fire sale down there. They may be taking a page out of the Sashi Brown playbook..

(2) Great to see Seibert go 5/5 on all of his scoring kicks. I hope it continues.

(3) Baker had a few bad passes tonight. Also had some really great throws.

(4) OBJ definitely changes the game for us. 161 yards and 1 TD on 6 receptions. Great pickup so far. Things have been quiet for Landry though. It’ll be nice to get Higgins and Callaway back.

(5) Felt like we should have been running the ball more for the position we were in. Only 18 carries for Chubb but was nice to see him get some points. Only 62 yards rushing.

(6) We only had one take away but it was still nice to see. 3 sacks for Garrett is awesome.

(7) Nine penalties for 85 yards tonight. A step in the right direction. Less than the jets had too.
Posted By: slick Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 05:10 AM
Freddy should not be calling plays PERIOD.
We play out of the shotgun way to much.
We need a fullback and a power running game
Losing njoku sucks...
Who the heck did avery tick off to not be starting?
Greedy should not be starting over Mitchell, who was playing at a pro bowl level until breaking his arm last year.
Posted By: Pdawg Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 05:13 AM
Quote:
Things have been quiet for Landry though.


I looked it up. He has 7 catches for 99.
Posted By: DCDAWGFAN Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 05:19 AM
Based on limited evidence (like 1 drive in preseason and 1 or 2 drives against the Titans) this offense has more rhythm when it goes faster, up tempo... We snapped almost every ball with :01 on the play clock and usually weren't even getting to the line until about :07 on the play clock... Baker barely has one NFL season under his belt, he could use a little more time to identify the defense, audible if necessary, etc... I don't think Freddie is doing him any favors by taking so long to get the play call in and getting them ready to go.

On the upside, we won by 20 and everybody is unhappy that we weren't dominant enough... that has to be a good sign, right? I remember being yelled at consistently in the past if I was critical of how we won 9-7...
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 09:07 AM
J/C

- the hope is OBJ’s huge play loosens up our offense and makes us play less uptight ... I sensed it took some pressure off

- A win is a win, especially on the road on MNF ... and by 20 points

- Myles is just so, so good ... but he’s gotta skim off those handful of plays that kill us

- Schobert was quite good IIRC ... he’s instinctive

- I saw our DL just outmatch their OL ... Richardson was good IMO

- I’m a little concerned about our O when we don’t have Higgins (and then Njoku last night) ... I don’t want Baker to have to be locked into OBJ

- Chubb is our unsung MVP ... we simply cannot forget about him

- Ward’s a bit shaky to me ... he’s given up a few big plays thus far

- Two big defensive plays: The 4th down stop and the fumble recovery. The game’s closer without them.

- Kicking game? A+ ... we take that ALL year

- More to come
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 10:25 AM
j/c:

The players that stuck out to me last night were:

Kirksey
Schobert
Seibert
OBJ
Garrett

Our LBs seemed to all over the field last night.

Thought our line struggled again at spots. Baker looked indecisive at times. It was tough to get a real gauge on the team because it was obvious the Jets couldn't matchup with us in any facet of the game. It was pretty much set early on in my mind that we were going to win. It was a matter how crisp we were....and we were not crisp for the most part, offensively.

Kitchens still makes me very nervous. Not sold on him, whatsoever. Vernon too. Not sure I saw him do much of anything. Ward doesn't seem to be off to the same strong start as last year.
Posted By: PerfectSpiral Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 11:00 AM
down to 3rd string qb by game 2....The Jet’s are the Brown’s from 1999-2017.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 11:00 AM
J/d

In terms of Kitchens, I like being aggressive but don’t want to be too much so ... IE, always going for the home run, going for 4th downs too much when a FG is there, etc ... calculated aggression prevails IMO

I also didn’t like hearing that Booger thought our offense was too soft/finesse ... not that his word is gospel, but he’s probably correct. Using Chubb gives us a more balanced approach and mindset
Posted By: PerfectSpiral Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 11:07 AM
Originally Posted By: Pdawg
Quote:
Things have been quiet for Landry though.


I looked it up. He has 7 catches for 99.


And he’s returning punts very well. He’s happy being with his pal again, he’s getting plenty of ball time.
Posted By: FloridaFan Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 11:19 AM
It seemed to me like we were going up to the line with 5-7 seconds left on the clock, and Baker usually snapping the ball at 0 way to often. No time to read the defense. Are we not getting calls in quick enough?

Miles is a beast, but has to learn discipline.

Defense is a force, but seemed to lose a step late in the game.

We still have a problem with the short over the middle plays, we seldom stop them.

Seemed like Williams started the game, determined to stop Chubb.

Nice to see us handle Bell and not let him carry the Jets.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 11:24 AM
I agree Florida, we were REALLY pushing the play clock each snap it seemed. If this is by design, I wonder why? You’d think we’d want Baker at the line sooner to get a little more comfortable (and so the defense can’t anticipate the snap so easily)
Posted By: superbowldogg Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 11:38 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if we end up 1-6.

we look like undisciplined hot garbage. The coaching staff has to do a better job of getting this team on the same page. They are running a county club. The exact opposite of what Freddie said he would do. He as acting more like Romeo Crennel than any other coach I can remember. 26 accepted penalties in a 2 game window is mind-blowing.

If they had Darnold in.. we would easily be 0-2 right now. This team needs to buckle down and get to work.

Schobert had 12 tackles... woah! Dude is not going anywhere except getting paid to wear some orange and Brown.

We missed Randall.

Mayfield looks more like Lamar Jackson than Mayfield... He spent too much time making commercials and getting married this offseason. He is going to get one of his wide recivers killed. He needs to start getting receivers in stride. He is also holding on to the ball far too long. I think he is definitely in a sophomore slump brought on by his own doing.

We have our RB for the next few years.
OBJ does things that I am blown away by.
We don't need any more receivers.
We should trade for a G or T
Our front 7 is really good.
Garrett's body and athletic ability is a greek god among men. His mind now just has to mature.

why in the heck is Landry returning punts? seriously?
Didn't we learn from Winslow? Let special teams players play speial teams.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 11:44 AM
I agree w/a lot of your takes honestly .. Baker is simply not seeing the defense or his progressions well enough ... and it’s causing inaccuracy IMO

In terms of Landry,, he’s returning punts cuz Hilliard is out
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 12:07 PM
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
Originally Posted By: devicedawg
The offensee seems better when Higgins is around. Baker struggled when he was out last year...


Yes. Hollywood is very important to the flow and success of this offense.


I like Higgins, but this answer is too simple. The offense is different this year and that has a lot more to do w/its struggles than missing one player. The offense looked bad w/Higgins in preseason game number 3. This is more about scheme and processing skills than it is having your third receiver available.
Posted By: willitevachange Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 12:15 PM
My Thoughts:

-Play calling still left a lot to be desired. Still too many long developing plays. Anyone notice the biggest play we had was a quick hitter to OBJ? Yeah, me too.

-Baker looked lost...again. Im not worried, he still needs experience and will get better. But you could easily see he was confused. His accuracy has been dismal the last two games.

-The oline looked a little better, but not much if you ask me. Baker was holding on to the ball a lot too - so some of that is on him - but they still need to do better. Big improvement from last week though.

- Why oh why cant we run Chubb more.....

- Give it to the refs, they called a good game. Lets take this crew every week.

- Myles needs to wake up. If he wants to be the most dominate player in the game, he needs to stop the stupid penalties. man, he is such a beast tho lol.

- I will say I have been VERY surprised in Morgan Burnett. He has been much better than I gave him credit for so far. he was in on just about ever play.

- Shobert has been frustrating. He made a few plays, then WHIFFED on a few. He needs to be more consistent.

All in all, a win is a win. But if we play like that the new two weeks, were going to be 1-3.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 12:22 PM
Good call on Burnett ... he’s been solid, and was good again last night. I’d like to hear what the coaches think about him vs Peppers and if we miss Jabrill
Posted By: DCDAWGFAN Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 12:25 PM
Quote:
They are running a county club. The exact opposite of what Freddie said he would do. He as acting more like Romeo Crennel than any other coach I can remember. 26 accepted penalties in a 2 game window is mind-blowing.

It's 27.. but it went from 18 to 9.. the average per game for all NFL teams is 8 or 9. So we can lament the total or be happy about the progress from week 1 to week 2. And the upside is that a lot of ours are fixable. For starters, Miles needs to pull up if sees the QB in his throwing motion.

Quote:
Mayfield looks more like Lamar Jackson than Mayfield... He spent too much time making commercials and getting married this offseason. He is going to get one of his wide recivers killed. He needs to start getting receivers in stride. He is also holding on to the ball far too long. I think he is definitely in a sophomore slump brought on by his own doing.

I don't believe this at all. Not a single person inside or outside the Cleveland Browns has questioned the amount of work Baker puts in. What Mayfield is being asked to do is completely different than what they asked him to do last year.. that little fake handoff, quick slant that went for 89 yards last night was a staple of the offense last year and it was highly effective, get the ball out quick.. that might be the first time I've seen it this year.

Having "big plays" doesn't always mean you have to throw it 30 or 40 yards.. you can throw it for 8 and run for 25, which is what we did last year.

I still wish we would go up tempo more, get the defense on their heels and just keep going at them... quickly.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 12:29 PM
DC, Baker wasn't in Berea at all during his time off. He didn't work w/a QB coach. He did work out in a gym. The amount of time he spent throwing to his teammates this summer was minimal. He did "take time away from football." I don't see how those things equate to him being a "hard worker."
Posted By: jeepnstein Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 12:54 PM
Originally Posted By: SuperBrown
Originally Posted By: jeepnstein
I'm concerned. I think Williams had Bakers number all night.


Really???????





Yeah. I do. He knew what it took to get Baker into a bad place and he took him there. The good passes were there to remind us of what is coming. Overall I thought Mayfield's accuracy was off and quite a few of the dropped passes were on him. I don't think we're quite there yet. That touchdown pass to OBJ was just stinking beautiful. And they looked vastly better than the first week so I'm not complaining.
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 12:58 PM
Quote:
- Why oh why cant we run Chubb more.....


Because establishing the run is going the way of the Dodo bird, and that is probably a good thing. Personally, I'd like to see more playaction plays from the offense. Use that the build up in the running game. Establish the playaction....to execute the run. Sounds crazy but this is the NFL. And it's most likely the right route to go down. More efficient overall.

That all aside, our run blocking isn't very good. That could be another reason why Chubb isn't getting many touches in that category.
Posted By: Damanshot Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 12:59 PM
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Nice to get a win.

If we play like we did against the Jets next week against the Rams it’s going to be a boat race.


I don't want to be Debbie Downer here, but this isn't the team I thought we were going to be. Maybe the hype got to me more than I thought.

I was expecting an explosive offense led by Mayfield, Landry, Beckham and Chubb... They had moments, but I was expecting more.

I expected the D to be stout but I didn't expect all the penalties that Miles was getting... What was it, 3 last night?

The good news, I saw vast improvement from the week prior and maybe that will bode well for us for next week. But next week, we are playing a damn good team.. If our Oline doesn't improve by next sunday, we are in for a real mess.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 01:02 PM
I think a lot of us, even after a win, have tempered some expectations now. Quite frankly, this isn’t a double digit win team ... at least most likely. This is still a team that is near .500 (maybe 9 wins) .. we should be able to beat the bad teams, most of the average teams, but will struggle with the good ones. To see our schedule coming up is a bit daunting to me
Posted By: PDXBrownsFan Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 01:03 PM
I think it is far too early to be assessing "sophomore slump". Two games down, barely time with the entire first unit playing together at camp and in preseason. This machine is NOT a well oiled machine...it has had its moments, but it has also shown it needs more time together to start gelling. I agree that we HAVE to play better on all three sides of the ball to beat LA.

I also have to concede that I was worried about the Hammer given his lack of experience. He was phenomenal last night. Pretty much on the ten or inside the ten on every punt. Great hang time too!

Myles should easily hit 15 sacks this season. At one point I thought he might get 15 last night! They simply couldn't stop him.

Any word on if Donald is playing Sun? Probably too early, but our line is going to struggle w/him.
Posted By: Homewood Dog Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 01:06 PM
I never bought into the hype. I was cautiously optimistic and I made a comment that we are still the Browns until we prove we are not the Browns anymore. However, I thought we would look better than we have. If we don't improve these next five games we could be looking at a 2-5 record or worse.
Posted By: DiamDawg Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 01:07 PM
Bake’s the biggest issue with the O right now .... and Higgins coming back will not solve any of his problems ... NOT A SINGLE ONE ... I'm by no stretch happy with my boy Freddie but Bake’s the biggest problem ...

- he’s inaccurate as heck right now ... he still has his great throws but way to many are off target ... he missed a boatload of throws last night and he wasn’t real accurate against Tenn either ...

- he refuses to take the open underneath route and is forcing things downfield or getting pummeled cause he’s holding it too long ....

- he’s made exactly ZERO PLAYS out of the pocket so far this year ... last year he was like a machine outside the pocket ... so many BIG PLAYS he made after scrambling .... this year ... NADA ...

If this don’t straighten out NOW were in deep trouble with this schedule ahead of us ...

GOOD LUCK BAKE .... keep fantasy island empty .... *L* ...
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 01:09 PM
The inaccurate throw to OBJ when he stepped up in the pocket was alarming to me ... that is DEAD NUTS for him usually. That’s a layup. Also, the one when he drifted right and tried to hit Landry on the sideline ... and it sailed out of bounds. He made that play dozens of times last year.

He’s not seeing the field as well, not as quick, and not as accurate. Gotta change
Posted By: Punchsmack Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 01:16 PM
Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
The inaccurate throw to OBJ when he stepped up in the pocket was alarming to me ... that is DEAD NUTS for him usually. That’s a layup.


IMO, OBJ was held on the play. As he made his break, the DB held him and then Mayfield let it rip. I can't say for certain, but had he not been held, maybe he gets an extra half step and can make the catch. Remember, Mayfield ran downfield asking for a flag (we couldn't challenge because it wasn't PI, it was defensive holding).

I don't think that throw was completely on him in that situation. There were quite a few others that were high or wide, as you said, the one where he rolled right and tried the sideline throw, last year he hits that on the numbers.

Also, I haven't seen anything about Trevor's ankle. Is he okay?
Posted By: DiamDawg Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 01:17 PM
U talking about the one where he overthrew an open OBJ by 10 yards and obj wanted a flag? ... if so, that was the first one that really told meBake was off ... then that miss to VG down the sidelines was even more eye opening ... including Bakes body language after the throw ...

It seems he’s lost all his confidence and thats HUGE FOR HIM ... he lives off of chips on his shoulder and the fact he thinks he can do anything he wants on the filed .... his confidence in himself is a huge part of his game and right now he looks like a dear in the headlights constantly after plays ...

This does not bode well for us if he don’t find himself TOOT SWEET!
Posted By: TrooperDawg Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 01:18 PM
On the OBJ one handed catch, from the sideline view, you can clearly see his face and eyes. Hard to understand why it was such an issue for the officials.
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 01:20 PM
Posted By: DiamDawg Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 01:22 PM
He was held ... no doubt ... but he was running almost parallel to the end zone at the time of the hold and Bake threw it 10 yards over his head .... being held didn’t affect how off that throw was ...

Can someone who recorded if check that please ... i’m pretty sure the hold didn’t alter OBJ’s direction to make the throw look worse than it appeared ... but i could be wrong ...

And that was just the one that made me go ... WOW .. he’s off ... he had many other throws that were just not accurate at all ...
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 01:23 PM
I think it's a combination of Baker, play calling, and scheme.

I watched a special on Baker right before the season and they talked about how Freddie simplified things for him when he took over last year. They had him only reading half the field, went w/more max protection personnel sets, called a lot of quick plays, etc. If you have time, read the offensive scheme thread and the links that are in some of the posts. It's educational.

Baker is holding the ball too long and is either not seeing open receivers or is ignoring them. He was doing that last year under Haley's direction, too. But again, I think it goes back to scheme and personnel packages. He doesn't seems quite ready for those things. He's young.

The accuracy thing is wild because he makes some throws that are brilliantly accurate. The throw down the sideline that OBJ one-handed was an extremely accurate throw. Later, he threw a check down throw in the flat into the dirt. I think his poor throws come down to two reasons. The first is that his confusion creates indecision and that changes things for him. Other times, his lower body mechanics break down. Two separate issues, but both have been noticeable.

It's a work in progress. Both he and Freddie need to improve. They can. Hopefully, they do.
Posted By: DiamDawg Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 01:27 PM
Thanks for the breakdown .... especially the confusion part ... that helped me understand part of the problem ... makes sense ...

Unfortunately it don’t make me feel any better .. *L* ...

I’ll read it over the weekend ....
Posted By: TrooperDawg Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 01:27 PM
I didn’t hear Greg Robinson’s name or number one time last night. Way to go Greg!
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 01:32 PM
Originally Posted By: TrooperDawg
I didn’t hear Greg Robinson’s name or number one time last night. Way to go Greg!


He had at least one holding call.
Posted By: Dave Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 01:33 PM
Originally Posted By: Punchsmack
Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
The inaccurate throw to OBJ when he stepped up in the pocket was alarming to me ... that is DEAD NUTS for him usually. That’s a layup.


IMO, OBJ was held on the play. As he made his break, the DB held him and then Mayfield let it rip. I can't say for certain, but had he not been held, maybe he gets an extra half step and can make the catch. Remember, Mayfield ran downfield asking for a flag (we couldn't challenge because it wasn't PI, it was defensive holding).

I don't think that throw was completely on him in that situation. There were quite a few others that were high or wide, as you said, the one where he rolled right and tried the sideline throw, last year he hits that on the numbers.

Also, I haven't seen anything about Trevor's ankle. Is he okay?


I suppose it will sound like an excuse, but based on the number of throws by Mayfield that were wild-high, its just possible that his wrist is not 100% from the hit he took on the sack/safety last week. Its hard to believe that a QB who showed really good accuracy as a rookie has become so scattershot in his 2nd season.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 01:35 PM
He's young. I hope he spends next off-season breaking down film. Watch coverages over and over and over. Booger was talking about how Williams was confusing Baker by showing one coverage pre-snap and then going into another coverage post-snap. I've made a ton of posts about pre and post-snap coverages over the years. It's a real thing that most fans and media folks don't talk about. The other thing he can do is work on his lower body mechanics. He has the arm, moxie, swag, accuracy, etc to be very good. He's gotta put in the work.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 01:36 PM
Originally Posted By: TrooperDawg
I didn’t hear Greg Robinson’s name or number one time last night. Way to go Greg!


He had one hold, but yes, he played well.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 01:37 PM
Could be his wrist/hand as well .. that affects your accuracy of course. Good point
Posted By: rastanplan Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 01:39 PM
Originally Posted By: Dave
Originally Posted By: Punchsmack
Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
The inaccurate throw to OBJ when he stepped up in the pocket was alarming to me ... that is DEAD NUTS for him usually. That’s a layup.


IMO, OBJ was held on the play. As he made his break, the DB held him and then Mayfield let it rip. I can't say for certain, but had he not been held, maybe he gets an extra half step and can make the catch. Remember, Mayfield ran downfield asking for a flag (we couldn't challenge because it wasn't PI, it was defensive holding).

I don't think that throw was completely on him in that situation. There were quite a few others that were high or wide, as you said, the one where he rolled right and tried the sideline throw, last year he hits that on the numbers.

Also, I haven't seen anything about Trevor's ankle. Is he okay?


I suppose it will sound like an excuse, but based on the number of throws by Mayfield that were wild-high, its just possible that his wrist is not 100% from the hit he took on the sack/safety last week. Its hard to believe that a QB who showed really good accuracy as a rookie has become so scattershot in his 2nd season.


Mayfield was never very accurate out of the pocket. Last year he had a running game that was working.

My biggest concern the way we are playing right now its his health...
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 01:43 PM
I don't think it has anything to do w/his wrist. I say that because he had some incredibly accurate throws and his velocity is supreme.
Posted By: SuperBrown Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 02:03 PM
Man you guys are rough.

When was the last time we defeated ANY team by 20 points?????

We have been the victim of 20-30 point losses for 20 years!!!!!!

Oh, how you people forget.

2 years ago, we were 0-16! I said 0-16!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your impatience is really beyond words.

Baker has played 16 NFL games and you are all roasting him????

Give the man a little time to evolve before you compare him to Brady and Brees.

This team is YOUNG and learning.

There will be growing pains, but all your negative comments are just unbelievable.

It is like you are grading our team as a 5 year veteran team.

Quite frankly you are all disgusting.

GO BROWNS!!!!
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 02:10 PM
J/C
If you follow Dan Orlovsky on twitter, he’s had some really nice breakdowns and criticisms of our offense ... check it out if you can, they’re videos
Posted By: Halfback32 Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 02:20 PM

The way the Browns are looking atm is bad .. beating up on an undermanned team and not looking good in the process is what we are all talking about.

Granted,some of the calls were bad. I still do not understand the landing with your weight on a QB call. Coming off a block and trying to tackle, but adjusting your hit so you do not land on him is stupid.

but do not see 5 wins atm .. much less 10 -6
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 02:20 PM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
I don't think it has anything to do w/his wrist. I say that because he had some incredibly accurate throws and his velocity is supreme.


The high throws aren't wrist related and they're not accuracy related. They are height related. Would love to hear he has talked with Brees at some point to see how to corral this. I think it's something he's just going to have to tweak to fix. The ball sails because he's concerned about getting it over the line.
Posted By: Dave Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 02:23 PM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
I don't think it has anything to do w/his wrist. I say that because he had some incredibly accurate throws and his velocity is supreme.


Not to argue semantics, but I don't consider inaccuracy to be the absence of accuracy, but rather the degree of consistency of accuracy. If a QB can't reproduce a given throw more than 5 or 6 times out of 10, then IMO, he is inaccurate. Mayfield appears to be less consistently accurate this year than he was last year, with the exception of a couple clunker games last year.
Posted By: Glw12 Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 02:36 PM
We are 1-1 and thats better than were used too.
We have a long way to go before we become a playoff team.
I do not like the play calling. Not nearly enough runs by Chubb.
It is very clear that our defense and special teams are way above our offense.
Still too many penalties.
Baker is not comfortable and Freddie needs to help him with better playcalling.
It seems like Freddie is in love with forcing the ball to Odell instead of using the run to set up paly action.
Our tight ends need upgraded.
I thought Schobert had a nice game.
I was happy with the win but not impressed with our offense.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 02:40 PM
jc -

Watched the locker room speech after the game. Pretty uninspiring speech by Freddie and really awkward lukewarm reaction from the players to Freddie getting his first win. Wilks is the one that had to bring it up. Freddie's presser after the game was awful as well. Odd answers and seemed kind of out of it almost like he was out of breath.

Putting my psychologist hat on, this team is sinking under the expectations. It was too much too soon. Something tells me this might work in their favor as they will now be the underdogs next week at home and that is a more comfortable position for them (it's also why I'm predicting a win). Ultimately I think this team will take a ton of lessons into the off season. It's what they do with them that will matter.

Baker can be great if he wants it bad enough. I truly believe that. He was more contrite in his presser yesterday than at any other point I've seen him. He knows it starts with him, that he isn't playing well, and that he's missing a ton of throws. Get it fixed.
Posted By: willitevachange Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 02:44 PM
Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
Could be his wrist/hand as well .. that affects your accuracy of course. Good point
I didn't think it was that. Too me, it looked like he was trying to force the ball more than place it at times. He was overthrowing it, which if it was a problem with his wrist, he wouldn't have been able to do. JMO
Posted By: WSU Willie Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 02:44 PM
I think Milk Man said it best...we look discombobulated...a lot...maybe most of the time. My mind keeps going back to the lack of playing time by the 1's in the pre-season. We've seen that movie way too many times.

It's been said here already, but what was/is the deal with getting to the LOS with barely enough time to get the play off? We are not some well-oiled machine that has played together for awhile...so why are we pretending to be like one in that regard?

To my recollection, the Jets played 8 in the box on D quite a bit...somewhat daring us to throw. Then Baker overlooks the easy play way too often and it was there again last night. I think this is where we/he misses Higgins the most...he looks for Higgins (he shouldn't too much) and will overlook the easy play (he shouldn't so much) but oftentimes Higgins IS that easy play. More on Higgins to follow...

I'm not sure what we have going on at TE. There are (4) on the roster and only (1) actually plays/looks like a TE - albeit one that doesn't block well. This position group is so below average that it's unbelievable.

Lamar Jackson completed (10) passes to his TEs last Sunday. Carson Wentz completed (8) passes to his TE last Sunday. Baker had (1) completed pass to a TE last night. How we cut DeValve over P Brown is mind-boggling. I know DeValve got dinged a lot...but he was healthy at final cutdown. He gets open and catches the ball.

In the end, Higgins is Baker's de facto TE...when Higgins isn't there...so goes a lot of that confidence/comfort that young QBs are all about. That's not to say that Baker won't pass on the easy play if Higgins is in...he will...but if (3) incompletions last night were instead (3) completions to Higgins (very reasonable for his "TE") Bakers stat line goes to 22-35 350 yards. 1 TD and 1 INT (on a deflected pass that should have been a PI call).

I think we'd take that on any given Sunday/Monday/Thursday.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 02:45 PM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
He's young. I hope he spends next off-season breaking down film. Watch coverages over and over and over. Booger was talking about how Williams was confusing Baker by showing one coverage pre-snap and then going into another coverage post-snap. I've made a ton of posts about pre and post-snap coverages over the years. It's a real thing that most fans and media folks don't talk about. The other thing he can do is work on his lower body mechanics. He has the arm, moxie, swag, accuracy, etc to be very good. He's gotta put in the work.


I agree. Last year I can give him a bit of a pass for taking down time. He got married and as a rookie. Those guys leave their college season and jump right in to the NFL drafting process. That makes for a LONG year. Down time was probably needed.

You mentioned it here or somewhere else, it will be key to see how he goes about next off season. If Bake wants to reach his full potential, he will need to take less down time.

As for this season, I hope we aren't trying to change him.

Next Sunday we need to pound Chubb and hit more quick passes. That will open up plenty of chunk pass chances.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 02:46 PM
Well said, I sense the same things too. I think Baker’s eating some humble pie to be honest.

Every player knows the TRUTH inside their mind. He knows he’s not playing well and is in the deep end right now ... no more floaties. He has the ability to be a great swimmer, but it’s gonna be hard
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 02:54 PM
Originally Posted By: Rishuz
Putting my psychologist hat on, this team is sinking under the expectations. It was too much too soon. Something tells me this might work in their favor as they will now be the underdogs next week at home and that is a more comfortable position for them (it's also why I'm predicting a win).


Browns open at +2.5. I've seen as high as +3 (pays -120)

Moneyline is +125
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:07 PM
Originally Posted By: SuperBrown
When was the last time we defeated ANY team by 20 points????


2014

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201411060cin.htm
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:09 PM
Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
J/C
If you follow Dan Orlovsky on twitter, he’s had some really nice breakdowns and criticisms of our offense ... check it out if you can, they’re videos








Posted By: Clemdawg Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:11 PM
I think it's a simple matter of exposure.

Opposing teams have film on him now. DC's have had a half season of book on him, and are starting to do what always happens in the NFL... adjust and adapt.

Add to that our lack of time to gel, and it shouldn't be a surprise that 2019 didn't take off like a rocket. The tools are there, but it takes time to dial in the workshop.

If this O was operating as proposed on paper, the final score should have been CLE 40-something/NYJ 3.

This team ain't there yet.
This team might not show its potential until well into the 2nd half of this season.

Baker Mayfield will see the kitchen sink thrown at him this year. I fully expect him to bump/lurch his way through a big chunk of this season, as he learns his way into the top shelf of NFL QB's.

OL protect is an ongoing issue.

Everyone who watches a game with me will here me say (at least 4-6 times per game): "Good things happen when you get pressure." It works for us when Myles, Larry, and Olivier are on the field; the same holds true with our opposition. Even Tom Brady becomes average/manageable when he's forced from his comfort zone. Baker is 1/2 a season old in the NFL. He's getting pressured... and it's keeping him from establishing a rhythm. He must take another step.

But that won't happen until he gets a reliable, clean pocket. This OL is stunting his growth early in the season.

Humble opinion time: I think the indecision you see is Baker trying to figure out the NFL. This is gonna continue throughout the 2019 campaign. We will see the flashes of brilliance (like that 30- yd toss to OBJ), but we will also see him struggle for big chunks of games. It's natural and to be expected.

Lots of fans and experts have predicted a division champ for the Browns, but that's only based upon what's on paper. I wouldn't be surprised to see an 8-8~ season, with a totally dominant team in 2020.

.02
Posted By: OldColdDawg Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:12 PM
The Problem with Baker?

- I think he took a pounding in week one and the first half of last night seemed like it was going to be like that again. He may be hearing footsteps coming at him earlier which breaks his progression reads or rushes them.

- I'm not sure his throwing hand is 100% due to the accuracy issues. I've watched him throw 60 yards into trash cans, drop numerous long passes right into the WR hands, play lights out from an accuracy POV... yet through the first two games something is off. I can't help but feel it's something physical vs. mental or scheme. He didn't just forget one of his best traits, something is up that we are not aware of.

- Teams have more tape on him, this is a new offense, and the pass happy play calling is not doing him any favors.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:22 PM
The types of plays being called could be a problem. The run versus pass play calling is fine. We ended up running the ball 21 times, that is pretty good for 2019.

The problem is the running backs are not getting the ball in their hands enough in the passing game. Throwing to the running back out of the backfield is one of the most efficient passes in the league. It's a short pass that usually goes for a pretty good chunk of yards.

Not only are we not passing to the running backs but we have had very few efficient short passes completed to just pick up a quick seven or eight yards.

Running the ball in 2019 is less efficient than throwing the ball. Throwing the ball averages more yards per play and a higher success rate. Hopefully the clunkiness of the offense is just early season rust being worn off and not a larger issue with the system or the players.
Posted By: leadtheway Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:37 PM
Here’s something I’ve wondered. Biggest knock on baker besides his atrocious accuracy is his decision making and pushing the ball down the field at all costs. Could it simply be he just can’t see over the line to see those routes over the middle developing in the short to intermediate? If FK was the true mastermind behind last years turn around, wouldn’t you think we’d see some of those plays by now?
Posted By: MemphisBrownie Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:43 PM
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:45 PM
Originally Posted By: leadtheway
Here’s something I’ve wondered. Biggest knock on baker besides his atrocious accuracy is his decision making and pushing the ball down the field at all costs. Could it simply be he just can’t see over the line to see those routes over the middle developing in the short to intermediate? If FK was the true mastermind behind last years turn around, wouldn’t you think we’d see some of those plays by now?


How come he could do it last year but not this year?
Posted By: Tyler_Derden Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 03:54 PM
I think ppl are misremembering BM performances last year....he's got some brilliant moments....and some not-so-brilliant moments.....he's going to take risks with the football...that's what he is....he's got that gunslinger mentality.....he gives us a chance to win in every game....that's something we haven't had in forever...

he has his flaws...hopefully he'll grow with experience and right now...I'm happy with that...
Posted By: Dawg Citizen Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 04:05 PM
Happy we won! If this team is going to do anything this season they have to beat teams like the Jets and they did.

Hope to see more Baker to Beckham TDs.

Too many personal fouls on Garrett. If the QB doesn't have the ball DON"T HIT HIM!

Too many drives ended in FGs instead of TDs. Red zone offense needs work.

I feel better after this game than I did last week.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 04:08 PM
j/c...

From Jason Lloyd....

Beckham’s two terrific plays inflated Baker Mayfield’s numbers a bit. He seemed to get rid of the ball a touch faster and plays like the seam route to Beckham help. Beckham said they installed that play just this week — perhaps to combat the issue of holding onto the ball too long — and Beckham knew by the defensive scheme it was going to be a big play.

That type of RPO with a receiver who can beat man coverage is the stuff the Chiefs excel at doing. It’s the stuff this team can and should ultimately develop, too. Freddie Kitchens said the original play call was a run, but Mayfield improvised.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 04:17 PM
Nice info Milk ... it seems like we need to take a page out of the Chiefs, Cowboys, 49ers playbooks ... watch the quick passing game and RPO stuff

Also, looking at Baker’s INT ... there was an easy check down right there for 5 yards ... GOTTA take that. It’s happening far too often
Posted By: DCDAWGFAN Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 04:22 PM
Not going to copy your post with 3 tweets in it but I agree with Orlovsky.. Our tempo is horrible and I wonder how much of that comes from the HC trying to make the play calls....

As far as us being 30th in 3rd down conversions, I'm honestly not overly concerned with that because cumulative season stats don't mean much in a 2 game sample when one of them was historically bad. Because of penalties, we were constantly in 2nd and 20, 3rd and 17, etc... so our 3rd down conversion % was 10%... we were 30% last night. Still not real good but in manageable distances we were much better.
Posted By: SuperBrown Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 04:26 PM
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: SuperBrown
When was the last time we defeated ANY team by 20 points????


2014

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201411060cin.htm


FIVE...Count em....FIVE LONG YEARS!
Posted By: BirdDawg81 Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 04:36 PM
ASIDE from any hype... I wonder how much teams like the Titans are taking the Browns more seriously this year and preparing more. Last year, coming off that 1-31 garbage from the two previous seasons, is it it possible teams prepared less and chalked up a win with the Browns coming up on their schedule? And that played into some of last year's success? Along with a a lack of tape on Baker?
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 04:38 PM
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 04:40 PM
Posted By: bonefish Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 04:41 PM

The world is a better place after a win and 1-1 is way better than 0-2.

Congratulations to Freddie and his staff on their first NFL win. Not real happy with some of the play calling. Did not like some of the plays called in various situations. I thought there was some plays for Chubb that should have been called.

Baker. He has not started his 16th game yet in what is a career of learning. GW knew how to confuse him. Baker missed some reads. There were few rhythm throws. At the same time he made some stick throws and some good decisions.

Offensive Line. Played well. The blocking on the Chubb TD run was a thing of beauty, textbook. Pass protection was better. Harris is not a good blocker. Hubbard struggled at times.

Myles. The Jet offense was crippled. We did what we had to do. Myles is a dominant player. The calls were close. Can not takes away his aggressiveness, but he has to stay in control.

Higgins was missed. He has a knack to find open space in the intermediary routes.

I love Schobert. Super smart player. He always is where he should be. You never see him out of position. Kirksey also played well.

Odell. He showed his talent. I have my doubts about him playing sixteen games. Some of the things he says strikes me as a guy who feels like he has to "feel 100%." There is no 100% once the season starts.

Expectations. After seeing the first two games we have a ways to go. The schedule looks rough. Rams, Ravens, 49ers, Seahawks, Pats. We need to get better quickly. We are going to tested early. To win three of those games we will have to be a much better team than we have shown so far.

Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 04:42 PM
j/c

I think Peen made a very valid point about "trying to change Baker". Not really so much in who he is or how he plays, but throwing too much at him at one time. Trying to change the scheme too much, too fast. I did see at least some attempt to scale that back just a little bit last night.

Everyone has covered most of the points I found to be troubling. Myles is a beast but he will have to learn more discipline.

Diam also brought up a good point that Baker's moxie is a part of who he is. It seems that's a little shaky right now because of what's being thrown at him. Which brings me to Clem's point about the other teams in the NFL now having film on Baker. It was obvious to me at least that when Williams changed the coverage post snap it confused Baker and had him second guessing himself.

The NFL is a league where film study rules supreme in game preparations. I'm sure the Titans and Jets games will be blueprints for our opponents moving forward. As many have mentioned Baker needs to take what opposing D's are giving and just go with the flow.

I also agree with most people that the game we played last night won't bode well for us against teams with decent QB's and a healthy D. But from last week to this week was solid progress. If we can maintain that progress game in and game out moving forward things will come around.

That's my only real hope moving forward as the schedule strengthens.

A shout out to our kicker and punter. Both performed well.
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 04:47 PM




Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 05:03 PM
Why have I not been following this account?
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 05:07 PM
I just found it also.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 05:11 PM
j/c:

I think the schedule might work out for us in a strange sort of way. We have some tough games coming up and we are not a well-oiled machine right now. Let's just say we can get to 4 and 4 or even 3 and 5 after 8. Think about the following:

--Hunt will be eligible
--The OL will have time to jell
--Kinks on offense w/Freddie and Monkins should get ironed out
--Baker and his receivers will have more chemistry.

We finish the season with:

Buffalo
Bengals twice
Steelers twice
Ravens
Cardinals
Dolphins

The Ravens are playing well, but we have some easy wins in there and no other team as current constructed scares me.

I still think tweaking our personnel packages is huge for the success of this offense. I think it's way more important than the other reasons folks are discussing.
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 05:17 PM
Browns: Good, Bad and Ugly versus the Jets

Cleveland’s first win of 2019 had some pleasant plays and dismal outcomes.

By Barry Shuck Sep 17, 2019, 1:02pm EDT

https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2019/9/17/20869897/cleveland-browns-good-bad-and-ugly-versus-the-jets



The Cleveland Browns first win of the season was at the hands of the hapless New York Jets on Monday night. Things do not look good in the Big Apple as the crosstown Giants are seemingly just as bad.

After a 16-3 halftime lead, Cleveland capped the night off with a 23-3 victory to begin this season knotted at 1-1. There were many great plays, and not so great plays.

The Good
OBJ’s special talents: Odell Beckham Jr.’s one-handed grab in the first quarter was a tremendous catch under tight coverage. On his touchdown catch in the third quarter, the best part was when he faked to the right and then cut to the left side of the field, which basically took the only man who could tackle him, free safety Marcus Maye, totally out of the play.

Beckham’s six receptions for 161 yards equate to a 26.8 average. Anyone who is still not pleased with the trade for OBJ is a liar. Not a bad night even without the watch and the dark shield.


Myles Garrett: At times, defensive end Myles Garrett seemed almost unblockable. Jets left tackle Kelvin Beachum had no answer all night long for Garrett’s speed and first step. Bringing tight end Ryan Griffin over at times to chip did not help much. Garrett ended the night with three sacks, five tackles and three tackles for loss, but his constant presence in the backfield dominated the line.

Cleveland’s linebackers: Christian Kirksey, Joe Schobert and, at times, Mack Wilson made play after play all night long.

In the third quarter when the Jets went for a fourth-and-two at the Browns 12-yard-line, cornerback Greedy Williams hit running back Le’Veon Bell first, but it was Schobert who put the knock-back tackle on Bell who appeared ready to lunge forward for the first down.

Facing a third-and-11 for the Jets in the fourth quarter with 13:40 left, Bell caught a screen pass and then broke four tackles while reversing his field. It was Kirksey who brought him down just short of the marker to force yet another punt.

Finally, it was Schobert’s hit which forced Bell’s fumble late in the fourth quarter and eliminated the Jets’ best scoring opportunity. Schobert finished with 13 tackles.

Defensive coordinator Steve Wilks: To say that Wilks called a stellar game is an understatement. At times, he had eight players in the box with man-on-man on the two solo receivers outside. Wilks blitzed a fifth or sixth man all night long, which created a Jets offense who had dismal yards in the first half.

Other formations included a 4-2-5, 4-1-6 and, at times, the standard 4-3. The Browns pass rush dominated this game.

Kicking game: Punter Jamie Gillan routinely placed the ball inside the 20-yard line (four total), helping to keep the field position game in the Browns favor. Kicker Austin Seibert was true on all of three of his field goal attempts, connecting from 43 yards, 48 yards and 23 yards.

Two rookie kickers was a huge risk that head coach Freddie Kitchens took, and it seems to be paying off.

Solid Unies: The white jersey with matching pants and socks was a very clean look. But the most impressive aspect was the fact that the numerals were orange with a slight brown dropshade instead of a solid brown number. The continuation of the orange really compliments the orange helmet.

Also impressive were the Jets’ all-black uniform with the darker forest green color variation. The only thing missing from the Browns uniforms was the Bernie Kosar-era white facemasks.

Clock management at the end of the first half: A refreshing part of the Browns night was how the first half concluded.

The Jets got the ball with 57 seconds remaining and on first down Bell ran up the middle for only two yards. Sensing New York would simply run out the clock, Kitchens called a time out. This forced the Jets to try and get a first down and quarterback Luke Falk then threw an incomplete pass, which saved a time out. With five yards tacked on for delay of game, on third down, Bell was stopped for no gain and forced a punt with the Browns now having the ball with 35 seconds remaining.

On third down and 20 from midfield, quarterback Baker Mayfield hit Jarvis Landry for 25 yards and a first down with no timeouts left. The entire Browns offense sprinted up 25 yards to the line for Mayfield’s spike, which gave Seibert the opportunity to kick his third field goal and up the lead to 16-3.

The Bad
Offense run game: Except for Nick Chubb’s 19-yard touchdown run in the second quarter, the run game did not get anywhere all night. Holes to either side never quite formulated because blockers were not moving their men out of harm’s way and just using arm pushes instead of drive blocks. Seventy rushing yards for a game is not going to beat the better teams in the league, just the lousy ones. Going into this game, the Jets were 24th against the run.

Offensive line pass blocking: Mayfield made a third of his pass attempts scrambling out of the pocket frequently. When he did have time to throw in the pocket, wonderful things happened, such as Beckham’s touchdown reception. The rightside in particular with right guard Eric Kush and right tackle Chris Hubbard was a jailbreak on many passing downs.

The Ugly
Right tackle Chris Hubbard: Chris Hubbard could not contain Jets defensive end Leonard Williams for most of the night. On one play, a cornerback blitzed with Williams stunting toward the middle, and Hubbard just kept following Williams instead of staying in his area and letting Williams go to take on the blitzer.

When Mayfield would have to pop out and run into the flats to throw, it was usually Hubbard’s man who would start this process. With 10:41 remaining in the fourth quarter, Chubb took a pitch from Mayfield on a toss sweep behind Hubbard, who had two Jets to choose to block and chose to block neither.

Myles Garrett: As a premier defensive end in the National Football League, you have to be aware that the league wants every single one of its member clubs to have every single one of its quarterbacks available each week. That is why there are special rules in today’s NFL designed to protect quarterbacks – make that numerous rules to protect the quarterback.

And one of those rules is as soon as the ball has left the signal caller’s hand he is no longer a target and can be bumped, but not tackled. The defensive player in pursuit of a quarterback has to make a reasonable effort to avoid hitting the passer.

Garrett’s two roughing the passer calls were just plain stupid and hurt the defense each time. He could have incurred a third such penalty on the Bell reverse field screen on third-string quarterback Luke Falk that thankfully was not called. It is going to be an expensive week for Garrett
Posted By: Steubenvillian Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 05:20 PM
nice to get a win.

Ward is not covering like he did last year.

Garrett was a beast even with the penalties. A couple years back he would have been praised for those hits on the QB, but with the way the NFL changes rules and the refs call them so unevenly, it's going to take time for him to figure out what he can get asway with.

Baker is going for the long ball on every down, he has got to be reigned in.

OBJ is a great player. Also, I watched the INT a couple times, it was clear pass interference, the guy was all over his back. Freddie needed to throw a challenge on that.

A win is a win. The offense has not meshed yet, and Baker is trying too hard for a big play every down. Freddie needs to ride Chubb more.

Young team, new coordinators, first time head coach, and that is just what it looked like.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 05:25 PM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
I still think tweaking our personnel packages is huge for the success of this offense. I think it's way more important than the other reasons folks are discussing.


I agree. It's what I was alluding to when I put this in my post. Though I didn't spell it out very well.

Quote:
I think Peen made a very valid point about "trying to change Baker". Not really so much in who he is or how he plays, but throwing too much at him at one time. Trying to change the scheme too much, too fast. I did see at least some attempt to scale that back just a little bit last night.
Posted By: Versatile Dog ! - 09/17/19 05:26 PM
Quote:
Browns: Good, Bad and Ugly versus the Jets


Some good points, but off mark on many other takes. Wow!
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: ! - 09/17/19 05:31 PM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
I still think tweaking our personnel packages is huge for the success of this offense. I think it's way more important than the other reasons folks are discussing.


Tweaking the personnel packages seems like a good idea in theory but I still don't how it would work in practice.

With 12 personnel (one running back, two tight ends, two wide receivers) we would have to take Higgins (Baker's binky) off the field or one of OBJ or Landry. And we'd have to bring on a tight end, which would mean Harris (who has been terrible) or Pharaoh Brown (who is an unknown) or Ricky Seals-Jones (I think this is probably the best option). None of those options above seem ideal, which is why I think we're in 11 personnel most of the time.

We don't have a full back so 21 personnel is off the table at least until Kareem Hunt comes back and we potentially line him up at receiver.

I think 11 personnel allows us to keep our most talented players on the field at this point in time.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: ! - 09/17/19 05:35 PM
J/c

I’m glad my thoughts on Schobert were correct: I thought he had a really good/active game. Seems like his evaluation agrees with that
Posted By: TrooperDawg Re: ! - 09/17/19 05:36 PM
I hope Todd Moncken isn't the 800 lb. gorilla in the room that no one's talking about. He was brought in to have significant input into the offensive scheme. And he's air raid all the way from what I've heard. Freddie just seems "off" this year in his play calling. He seemed to be near genius last year molding the offense for maximum production.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 05:36 PM
The other potential situation is that the wheels have fallen off by the time we get to the other side of the tough part of our schedule. Going into winnable games with no mo' makes the "easy" stretch of games much tougher.

I'm glad we got a win. We needed it. I'm also glad guys did well (Garrett, Chubb, the Oline was much improved). Still, as others have said, it's hard to celebrate the win when you know you've got the Rams coming up.

In a weird way, I'm kinda glad that we're seeing our offense in a bit of a mess. The scheme we employed against the Titans just wasn't going to work, and I'm hoping that last night's game was because Freddie and Monkin saw that and are making large changes on the fly. That obviously carries the negative of pushing the offense into more disarray through the short term, but I think that will get us into a better position eventually when we start to settle into plays and formations that work better for our personnel. Monkin may well have his high-risk-high-reward offense, but I'm hoping that he's realizing that that is going to be a season or two away, and not right now.
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 05:39 PM
Originally Posted By: VarmintKong
How many passing yards did the Jets have in the 1st half?


Interesting Halftime stat:

LeVeon Bell had more receiving yards (5) than both JETS QB's had passing yards, combined (4).
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 05:40 PM
Originally Posted By: PrplPplEater
Originally Posted By: VarmintKong
How many passing yards did the Jets have in the 1st half?


Interesting Halftime stat:

LeVeon Bell had more receiving yards (5) than both JETS QB's had passing yards, combined (4).

thats good (for us)
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: ! - 09/17/19 05:46 PM
The problem w/11 personnel is that it exposes the OL and Baker's weak areas.

I don't think signing a FB would be so hard. Is Charles still out there?

And for the record............I am not the only one talking about this. All kinds of former players and coaches have been addressing it.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: ! - 09/17/19 05:47 PM
Originally Posted By: TrooperDawg
I hope Todd Moncken isn't the 800 lb. gorilla in the room that no one's talking about. He was brought in to have significant input into the offensive scheme. And he's air raid all the way from what I've heard. Freddie just seems "off" this year in his play calling. He seemed to be near genius last year molding the offense for maximum production.


I agree. And I have been trying to talk about Monken's influence in the Offensive Scheme thread. I think I mentioned it on this thread, too. I'm very concerned w/his philosophies.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: ! - 09/17/19 05:49 PM
I think I read that Orson signed elsewhere
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: ! - 09/17/19 05:54 PM
I agree as well. Something hasn't meshed at this point. I hope it can.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: ! - 09/17/19 06:25 PM
Just a random comment I will add here. Ratley has some wheels!

On the play that OBJ to for 80-90 yards, Ratley came from out of nowhere to get between OBJ and the last 2 defenders who might have had a chance to make a play.

It was impressive.
Posted By: Swish Re: ! - 09/17/19 06:27 PM
OBJ is probably making mayfield look for the homerun ball too much.

i mean looking at the replays, there were some wide open check downs that was there all day for mayfield.

our O line has problems, how much of those problems would've been masked if mayfield was hitting the open throws and open guys like he did last year?

yall know what this reminds me of, right guys?

remember how Hoyer the destroyer was playing....right up until Gordon got back from the 10 game suspension? then he was forcing the ball to him constantly.
Posted By: Deepsouthdawg Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 06:54 PM
Originally Posted By: Homewood Dog
We need to run the ball more to set the tone of the game and let the passing game feed off that. We are looking for the big play every down. Take what the D gives us on O. Establish a running game then use play action.


I agree Homewood to a tee. I also think it all comes back to Freddie play calling and even though Baker isn't as sharp as can be he is taking the blunt of the blame.

We need to keep improving week to week and we will be ok. That includes the playcalling and game planning on O.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 07:09 PM

I don't really think Baker is taking the blunt (brunt) of the blame. I mean say what you will but the play calling really has nothing to do with the accuracy of a QB's arm. And I think the fact he has trouble going through his post snap reads is something very common for a very young QB.

Now some of that can be overcome with play calling. Last year they pretty much asked players which plays they were more comfortable running. As such it helps a young QB. From the change in play calling it seems they aren't doing that this year.

And it very well could be that if they were running plays the players were more comfortable with, that Baker might be more accurate. But a QB has to adapt and be able to maintain his accuracy. That's on Baker.

As an example..... Last year we saw Baker rolling out when pressure was applied in the pocket. He made some amazing throws while on the move. This year under those same circumstances, his throws seem far more off the mark. These are similar throws under similar circumstances with totally different results.

Now some of those things are on Baker. Some of it has to do with what I believe is the coaching staff throwing too much at him too fast. It's the coaching staffs job to know a young QB's limitations and progress and in return call plays with those limitations in mind. I'm not seeing that thus far on the part of the coaching staff.

There's enough blame to go around here And I think it's being doled our pretty evenly.
Posted By: willitevachange Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 07:15 PM
J/C

- I think vers is on to something with Monken's influence. I have no idea if true, but it seems like last year - Freddie called his game, his plays. This year it just seems that Freddie is calling Monkens game and his plays. If that makes any sense. We are seeing the same offense and play types that really set Winston up to fail. Deep plays and long developing routes that get pressure on your QB who then has to force a throw resulting in an a bad pass or INT. Watch Winston under Monk and tell me that's not what we have seen the last two games from Baker. This aint the same Baker or offense we saw last year. With upgraded talent, we downgraded on our game plans and playbook, IMO.
Posted By: archbolddawg Re: ! - 09/17/19 07:15 PM
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Just a random comment I will add here. Ratley has some wheels!

On the play that OBJ to for 80-90 yards, Ratley came from out of nowhere to get between OBJ and the last 2 defenders who might have had a chance to make a play.

It was impressive.

This comment made me go look at the vid. If you can find a wide screen vid, watch it. He was, when OBJ caught the ball, perhaps only a yard behind OBJ. He was split out wide.

AS the tape shows, OBJ made a few cuts (half cuts, really) and, in no way am I saying he doesn't have speed, but......well, start this vid at around the 40 second mark.

Posted By: willitevachange Re: ! - 09/17/19 07:16 PM
[quoteOBJ is probably making mayfield look for the homerun ball too much.

i mean looking at the replays, there were some wide open check downs that was there all day for mayfield. ][/quote]I don't know if that's the OBJ effect, or the effect of our new OC. Because I saw the same type of gameplans in Tampa.
Posted By: FloridaFan Re: ! - 09/17/19 07:39 PM
I can agree with the Monken stuff. Being in South Florida, I see a lot of Tampa games, and Winston tries to go deep often, but he is still doing that so far this pre-season and season, so it may not ALL have been Monken, but there is similarities.
Posted By: chet the jet Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 07:51 PM
Originally Posted By: jaybird
Originally Posted By: bonefish

MacFarland called a good game.


I was pleasantly surprised


He being a LSU Alumnus probably calmed him down. I was impressed given previous exposure to him.
Posted By: CapCity Dawg Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 08:14 PM
j/c

Not a lot to add.

I liked the kicks. It seemed even when Joseph made a kick last year, it was shaky. Just over the crossbar, or just inside the upright. Wobbly. Last night, right down the middle.

Between two games, only one of the Hammer's punt was returned. And it was not much of a return.

On the OBJ TD one of the announcers said no one was going to catch him. Then Ratley pretty much did. Showed some wheels there.
Posted By: willitevachange Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 08:25 PM
Originally Posted By: CapCity Dawg
j/c

Not a lot to add.

I liked the kicks. It seemed even when Joseph made a kick last year, it was shaky. Just over the crossbar, or just inside the upright. Wobbly. Last night, right down the middle.

Between two games, only one of the Hammer's punt was returned. And it was not much of a return.


On the OBJ TD one of the announcers said no one was going to catch him. Then Ratley pretty much did. Showed some wheels there.
VERY MUCH AGREED!

I don't think enough credit has been going to the ST, when in fact that has been an Achilles heel of ours for years.
Posted By: DCDAWGFAN Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 08:32 PM
The Ravens are playing well, but it is worth mentioning that they have played arguably the two worst teams in the NFL so far. They have to go to KC this week before playing us... I know they are pretty good but we will know a lot more about just "how good" after this week.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 08:49 PM
j/c

You also wonder if Wylie was correct in saying that it had more to do with Zampese than anybody else
Posted By: brownsfansince79 Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 08:51 PM
j/c

He summed up my thoughts exactly:



Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 10:57 PM
In defense of the discussion, talking about what isn't working and being critical of those things is not the same as complaining.

Nobody ever improves, much less becomes great, by ignoring their weaknesses. You look at them, you acknowledge them, and then you attack them.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: ! - 09/17/19 11:00 PM
Originally Posted By: Swish
OBJ is probably making mayfield look for the homerun ball too much.

i mean looking at the replays, there were some wide open check downs that was there all day for mayfield.

our O line has problems, how much of those problems would've been masked if mayfield was hitting the open throws and open guys like he did last year?

yall know what this reminds me of, right guys?

remember how Hoyer the destroyer was playing....right up until Gordon got back from the 10 game suspension? then he was forcing the ball to him constantly.



I don't know. I posted a link in the scheme thread. Read it and you might change your mind.
Posted By: THROW LONG Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 11:05 PM
OK, For the first 2/3rds of the game,

Chubb is in on first down, Run, Same on 2nd down, but 3rd down?

Even on 3rd and 3, Chubb needs to be able to stay in the 3rd down package on occasion, just to give the hint that you may still run the ball.

When Chubb came out and D'Ernest went in, everybody from here to Egypt knew the Browns were going to pass, and usually out of the pocket.

If that kind of predictability continues for the whole season, it will lead to disaster.

... After several occasions, they ran D'ernest on one of those plays, it must have been 3rd and 10 because he got 5.5 -6, and set up the first 4th and 4, 4th down where they tried to draw them offsides.

But, if the team is so predictable that if Chubb is in, you run 75% of the times,
and when He checks out, and D'Ernest checks in, the whole defense has all the time you break the huddle to remember you passed, 99% of the time when that player checked out, and that one checked in.

You can't make anything that obvious in the NFL,
in the NFL it leads to, disasterous results.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: ! - 09/17/19 11:10 PM
Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Just a random comment I will add here. Ratley has some wheels!

On the play that OBJ to for 80-90 yards, Ratley came from out of nowhere to get between OBJ and the last 2 defenders who might have had a chance to make a play.

It was impressive.

This comment made me go look at the vid. If you can find a wide screen vid, watch it. He was, when OBJ caught the ball, perhaps only a yard behind OBJ. He was split out wide.

AS the tape shows, OBJ made a few cuts (half cuts, really) and, in no way am I saying he doesn't have speed, but......well, start this vid at around the 40 second mark.



It is near 23 yards from hash to sideline. Ratley was pretty much on the sideline and OBJ caught the ball pretty much on the hash. OBJ didn't start cutting out until he saw Ratley streaking his way to provide help.

Ratley ran a 4.39 pro day.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: ! - 09/17/19 11:13 PM
That raw ability is why they kept Ratley.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: ! - 09/17/19 11:25 PM
Ok...I do have a little bias...I have a bartender here in town who is a cousin to Damion. She grew up in Yoakam, Tx with him.

She is a nice girl and I have lunch and a few pints with her on Saturdays every 3-4 weeks. I rotate between 5-6 places.

I was wearing my Browns sweatshirt last year and she made comment when I entered. OK....most people comment when I enter a room....I'll let you decide what those comments might be...lol..anyway, that is how the relationship started. She said she was a Browns fan, her cousin played for the team. As a SEC fan, I remembered liking him at A&M and she liked I knew that.

Kat was off the last time I was in, I wanted to give props for him making the team. It will have to wait. I will be in Cleveland next week, and NYC the following.
Posted By: GratefulDawg Re: Post game thoughts - 09/17/19 11:43 PM
Posted By: Swish Re: ! - 09/17/19 11:47 PM
i went and read it.

im not happy about that. Bucs had all those yards, with all those L's to go along with it.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: ! - 09/18/19 12:16 AM
Bro, I don't think it's fair to blame OBJ for Baker's issues. I'm not going to argue about it, but I think I have identified the main issues. A lot of former players/coaches on TV seem to think along the same lines.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: ! - 09/18/19 12:18 AM
I almost hate saying this, because I'll probably have to defend the guy at some point, but Freddie is not impressing me thus far.

He talked too much in preseason. He changed his scheme/personnel packages. His talk to the players was about as bad as I have EVER seen.

It's very early, but right now, I am not so sure that Freddie is ready.
Posted By: Milk Man Re: ! - 09/18/19 12:49 AM
j/c...

Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: ! - 09/18/19 01:58 AM
Love those clips of Donovan
Posted By: YTownBrownsFan Re: ! - 09/18/19 01:59 AM
Just a thought about the Jets:

They are in trouble. Big trouble.

0-2, missing Darnold for the next few weeks, and having the following schedule coming up:

@ New England
Bye
@ Philly
Dallas
New England

At that point it will be .. welcome to 0-6.
Posted By: mgh888 Re: ! - 09/18/19 02:58 AM
A ton of good points already. I feel pretty much the same as most.

Listening on the Radio today I did hear a point that I haven't seen mentioned here - I think it was Joe Thomas - Baker has a whole lot more on his plate this year with the O. Last year he was not changing the call at the line. This extra mental process could well be the reason for the late snaps and getting to the line late. Also possibly affecting how quickly he is making his decisions and letting it rip.

JT also used Calvin Johnson as an example of what OBJ might be doing to Baker - when you have such a great talent on your team, you kind of want to get him the ball. Basically JT and every other person I heard talk on the TV or the radio talked about taking what the D gives you, throwing to the open guy underneath often, because the D has to respond to that and then you open op OBJ or the long play to whichever guy.

JT also thought Higgins was going to be a significant help - as he trusts him so much as his safety outlet.

My 2 cents - ignoring the things that need to improve - thought the D was stout. Regardless of how good/bad the jests were without Darnold - the D looked like the D I was expecting in terms of their physicality and ability to get into the backfield. Thought Kirksey and Schobert both attacked the ball and played very well. MG got all the headlines but the DL played very very well as a unit... A little concerned Ward doesn't look as smooth and comfortable as last year.

Last comment - special teams: great all round and a special shout out to the Scottish Hammer....
Posted By: Rishuz Re: ! - 09/18/19 03:22 AM
Denzel looks uninterested.

I think those concussions are weighing on him.
Posted By: Damanshot Re: Post game thoughts - 09/18/19 01:11 PM
Originally Posted By: SuperBrown
Man you guys are rough.

When was the last time we defeated ANY team by 20 points?????

We have been the victim of 20-30 point losses for 20 years!!!!!!

Oh, how you people forget.

2 years ago, we were 0-16! I said 0-16!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your impatience is really beyond words.

Baker has played 16 NFL games and you are all roasting him????

Give the man a little time to evolve before you compare him to Brady and Brees.

This team is YOUNG and learning.

There will be growing pains, but all your negative comments are just unbelievable.

It is like you are grading our team as a 5 year veteran team.

Quite frankly you are all disgusting.

GO BROWNS!!!!


Roasting him? I don't think so. Thinking we were going to be one thing and turning out to be another, that's not Roasting.

Being disappointed by Penalties isn't roasting anyone.
Posted By: Bull_Dawg Re: ! - 09/18/19 01:21 PM
Originally Posted By: Rishuz
Denzel looks uninterested.

I think those concussions are weighing on him.


Or Robbie Anderson is just a physically talented guy who stretches things downfield and the defense was focused on not giving up the big play. The way our DL was demolishing their OL, there was little reason to think they could consistently string together plays.

I need to rewatch the game and see if we might be giving Greedy more safety help. Denzel might be more being left on his own so that he needs to be a bit more cautious.

I wasn't the most focused on him, though. It can be hard to tell much from the broadcast angle at times.
Posted By: Rishuz Re: ! - 09/18/19 01:46 PM
No, there is something up with Denzel. I don't think his mind is right. If he doesn't get back on track passing on Chubb will turn out to be a mistake. If we had Chubb we still have Zeitler. And Chubb is way better than Vernon.

Not giving up on Denzel but something is up.
Posted By: leadtheway Re: ! - 09/18/19 03:44 PM
denzel def. doesn't want to tackle and he's very slow getting his hips turned. He's def. not the same guy as last year. The whole Defense as a whole seems less aggressive. Front 7 play is improved but we aren't generating turnovers like last year
Posted By: willitevachange Re: ! - 09/18/19 03:47 PM
Originally Posted By: leadtheway
denzel def. doesn't want to tackle and he's very slow getting his hips turned. He's def. not the same guy as last year. The whole Defense as a whole seems less aggressive. Front 7 play is improved but we aren't generating turnovers like last year
We have a new def coordinator.

Do you like more turnovers or less points scored?

We may have turned over the ball more with Gregg, but we gave up points, big plays, and rushing yards like crazy.

So far, we are more controlled at the line, being better suited to stop the run and limiting big plays based on what I have seen.

TO are nice, but when your giving up 14 points because your blitzing and going for the ball all day - they negate the positive they produce.
Posted By: willitevachange Re: ! - 09/18/19 03:48 PM
Also, maybe I am wrong (someone can look it up) but it seems we are playing more zone than man.
Posted By: WSU Willie Re: ! - 09/18/19 04:36 PM
Originally Posted By: Bull_Dawg
Originally Posted By: Rishuz
Denzel looks uninterested.

I think those concussions are weighing on him.


Or Robbie Anderson is just a physically talented guy who stretches things downfield and the defense was focused on not giving up the big play. The way our DL was demolishing their OL, there was little reason to think they could consistently string together plays.

I need to rewatch the game and see if we might be giving Greedy more safety help. Denzel might be more being left on his own so that he needs to be a bit more cautious.

I wasn't the most focused on him, though. It can be hard to tell much from the broadcast angle at times.


I hope you are correct...but Denzel was also quite bad in the Titans game.
Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown Re: ! - 09/18/19 04:50 PM
What wrong with Denzel Ward is the scheme.

Ward is a man cover corner, one of the best.

Our Defensive Coordinator is playing mostly zone, Ward isn't a zone corner, he may become one, but right now he is struggling because of it.

Both Ward and Mitchell are much better man corners that zone corners.
Posted By: CapCity Dawg Re: ! - 09/18/19 06:22 PM
Originally Posted By: Knight_Of_Brown
What wrong with Denzel Ward is the scheme.

Ward is a man cover corner, one of the best.

Our Defensive Coordinator is playing mostly zone, Ward isn't a zone corner, he may become one, but right now he is struggling because of it.

Both Ward and Mitchell are much better man corners that zone corners.


Agree w this. And I suspect Greedy is also more of a cover corner than zone.
Posted By: Spergon FTWynn Re: ! - 09/18/19 11:00 PM
My thoughts:

This is still a work in progress. I think there are going to be adjustments made to make up for some of the weaknesses we have on the OL.

Baker looked better against the Jets than he did the week before. He still doesn't look right, although I think he'll figure it out.

Myles Garrett is unbelievably fun to watch, but he has gotta clean up the penalties. I'm not going to knock him too much for the late hit on a QB, because I really think there is not a ton you can do about that, but jumping offsides is going to end up costing us games.

Odell Beckham Jr. is so much fun to watch. WOW. The Browns robbed the Giants there.

Greedy Williams looks to be a pretty good player.

Sunday Night is going to be TOUGH. Big test for both the offense and defense. Big stage.
Posted By: chet the jet Re: ! - 09/19/19 07:20 AM
What I'm seeing and is a concern to me. Monkey's offense might be great but it seems it goes away from what Baker does best, i.e., quick looks and delivery. Monkey got Winston killed with long developing plays and he's brought that here - and we're not playing to minimize our weaknesses - our OL isn't capable of blocking for that long most of the time. I think Freddie needs to consider how he played to our O's comfort level/strengths last year. We're looking like a go for home run all the time. Odell is a weapon, not the only one and teams seem to game plan for our long ball approach.

Wilks' D I see as developing the same kind of one trick pony. Unleashing the D line to get sacks/pressure at all costs. We drafted 2 cover corners but are playing zone and not focusing on taking away anyone. Myles needs another move, any tackle who gets his hands on him greatly slows him down. Again, Freddie needs to look at what D strengths he has and utilize it, especially at times to disguise their look.

Penalties and heads down playing seems to overlook playing smarter. I also say the lack of O chemistry during preseason has them trying to gel in these first games.
Posted By: oobernoober Re: ! - 09/19/19 11:21 AM
First off, I'm surprised the autocorrect going on in your post hasn't happened more often...

I don't like the direction that they're pushing the offense, but at least I get it. You went out and got OBJ, and you have a QB that really likes the long ball.

The D is pretty irritating, though. You have these good young CBs that excel in man... so obviously you put them in a zone scheme. Ugh...

A couple posters were pointing this out when Wilkes came on board, but we were all hoping he'd notice our corners.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: ! - 09/19/19 11:30 AM
I wonder the benefits of zone in our coaches’ minds? Is it to help our LBs/Safeties who struggle in coverage?

I mean, with Denzel, Greedy, and Mitchell ... you’d think we can just line up and play man
Posted By: CapCity Dawg Re: ! - 09/19/19 11:49 AM
I think w zone the thought is that there is less chance for giving up the big play.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: ! - 09/19/19 11:59 AM
It's hard to evaluate our defense right now because we played two offenses that are not very good. We'll have a better idea after this upcoming game.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: ! - 09/19/19 12:11 PM
Originally Posted By: CapCity Dawg
I think w zone the thought is that there is less chance for giving up the big play.

That could be the case in their thinking. I wonder if we’ll shift to some sort of man/zone hybrid to allow our CBs to excel
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: ! - 09/19/19 05:18 PM
I feel like that would be ideal... man outside, zone under... but, I'm also an X's & O's neophyte and am not sure what weaknesses that creates.

That said, it seems like it would be the best use of the talent we've acquired.
Posted By: HotBYoungTurk Re: ! - 09/19/19 11:34 PM
Just chiming in on the CB Zone/Man ordeal.

We have guys who can absolutely plan man. I don't wanna say its crazy not to have these guys play mostly man, but it's crazy to not have these guys play mostly man.

I think playing majority man, and then sprinkling in zone from time to time is the best way to go with our DBs.

I'm really interested in seeing how we play against the Rams. Hard to see any trends in 2 games, but 3 for me starts to solidify what our coaches are doing for the rest of the season.
Posted By: Versatile Dog Re: ! - 09/20/19 12:39 AM
Yes. You have to mix it up between man and zone or teams can exploit your tendencies. What worries me is that no DC in the entire NFL played more zone than Wilks when he was in Carolina.
Posted By: THROW LONG Re: ! - 09/20/19 01:07 AM
So I read all these last 2 pages, and, it sounds like the coaches are hamstringing the offense, and hamstringing the defense.

I don't think i'll live long enough to understand why no one can learn, what over several years seems like

oh, I got distracted, .. I mean, why We can't see the cart behind the horse,
the Caboose in the back, and the Engine in the front,

Really, beautiful, football.
Posted By: chet the jet Re: ! - 09/20/19 08:55 AM
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
First off, I'm surprised the autocorrect going on in your post hasn't happened more often...

I don't like the direction that they're pushing the offense, but at least I get it. You went out and got OBJ, and you have a QB that really likes the long ball.

The D is pretty irritating, though. You have these good young CBs that excel in man... so obviously you put them in a zone scheme. Ugh...

A couple posters were pointing this out when Wilkes came on board, but we were all hoping he'd notice our corners.


Didn't notice Monkey for Monken... never intended that and will pay attention in the future. Thanks for comment.
Posted By: chet the jet Re: ! - 09/20/19 09:01 AM
IRT Versatile ... I have a bad feeling about rigidity of thinking and Freddie letting it stand.
Posted By: willitevachange Re: ! - 09/20/19 01:09 PM
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Yes. You have to mix it up between man and zone or teams can exploit your tendencies. What worries me is that no DC in the entire NFL played more zone than Wilks when he was in Carolina.
I was afraid when we hired Wilkes and Monken we hired them on reputation and name instead of fit and scheme.

So far, that seems to have been the case.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: ! - 09/20/19 02:26 PM
I don’t even remember who else we were considering for OC/DC ... does anyone recall? Why didn’t we just make Zampese the OC?
Posted By: oobernoober Re: ! - 09/20/19 02:55 PM
Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
I don’t even remember who else we were considering for OC/DC ... does anyone recall? Why didn’t we just make Zampese the OC?


Hindsight is 20/20. Zampese came here after getting run out of town in Cinci in record time. The offense ground to a halt, and the players basically revolted while he was OC there.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: ! - 09/20/19 02:57 PM
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
I don’t even remember who else we were considering for OC/DC ... does anyone recall? Why didn’t we just make Zampese the OC?


Hindsight is 20/20. Zampese came here after getting run out of town in Cinci in record time. The offense ground to a halt, and the players basically revolted while he was OC there.
That’s fair enough of course, but who else did we consider? I honestly cant even remember
Posted By: oobernoober Re: ! - 09/20/19 06:32 PM
Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
I don’t even remember who else we were considering for OC/DC ... does anyone recall? Why didn’t we just make Zampese the OC?


Hindsight is 20/20. Zampese came here after getting run out of town in Cinci in record time. The offense ground to a halt, and the players basically revolted while he was OC there.
That’s fair enough of course, but who else did we consider? I honestly cant even remember


I should've been more clear that I'm not arguing your larger point, just the specific part about Zampese
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: ! - 09/20/19 07:18 PM
Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
Originally Posted By: oobernoober
Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
I don’t even remember who else we were considering for OC/DC ... does anyone recall? Why didn’t we just make Zampese the OC?


Hindsight is 20/20. Zampese came here after getting run out of town in Cinci in record time. The offense ground to a halt, and the players basically revolted while he was OC there.
That’s fair enough of course, but who else did we consider? I honestly cant even remember


I'm not certain, but I think we actually got our first choices throughout the process. There may have been other people on the lists, but I don't recall us being rebuffed by any. The guys we liked and went after, we got.
Posted By: Bull_Dawg Re: ! - 09/20/19 08:06 PM
Originally Posted By: PrplPplEater


I'm not certain, but I think we actually got our first choices throughout the process. There may have been other people on the lists, but I don't recall us being rebuffed by any. The guys we liked and went after, we got.



But did we go after low hanging fruit so that we could say that? That's the question.

They had name recognition, but do they actually fit? Hopefully, we can make it work, and the early bumps get smoothed out.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: ! - 09/20/19 10:30 PM
J/c

Okay thanks everyone ... I really didn’t even remember us interviewing many people
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: ! - 09/20/19 10:36 PM
Jan. 9, 2019 – Browns to name Freddie Kitchens head coach a league source confirms to 92.3 The Fan

Jan. 8, 2019 – Vikings offensive coordinator Kevin Stefanski and Freddie Kitchens are 2 finalists for head coaching job; Stefanski making his way back to Cleveland for a second interview with the Browns (via Tom Pelissero)

Jan. 8, 2019 – Freddie Kitchens has a good chance of being named the Browns head coach and there are many signs are pointing that way (via Mary Kay Cabot)

Jan. 8, 2019 – Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels says he did not speak with Browns about head coaching job, will return to New England next season

Jan. 7, 2019 – Browns interview offensive coordinator Freddie Kitchens for head coaching job

Jan. 7, 2019 – The Browns appear to have placed former Packer head coach Mike McCarthy on the back burner as far as their coaching search is concerned. The team spoke with McCarthy or his representatives Monday, "but things are on hold for now while the Browns talk to other candidates, according to sources" (via ESPN's Rob Demovsky)

Jan. 7, 2019 – The Browns are expected to interview offensive coordinator Freddie Kithcens Monday or Tuesday this week. Kitchens "does have a realistic shot at it" (via Ian Rapoport)

Jan. 6, 2019 – We now know who is on the Browns search committee. GM John Dorsey has been joined in interviews by owner Jimmy Haslam, executive vice president JW Johnson, assistant general manager Eliot Wolf, chief strategy officer Paul DePodesta and vice president of player personnel Andrew Berry (via Adam Schefter)

Jan. 6, 2019 – Browns interview Colts defensive coordnator Matt Eberflus for the head coaching opening

Jan. 6, 2019 – If the Browns haven't interviewed Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels by Sunday evening, they can't talk to him until after New England has been eliminated from the playoffs or unless they advance to the Super Bowl. League rules prohibit teams from interviewing candidates from playoff teams during the divisional and conference championship weeks (via 92.3 The Fan)

Jan. 5, 2019 – Keep an eye on Colts defensive coordinator Matt Eberflus.. hearing the Browns very interested. (via Dustin Fox/92.3 The Fan)

Jan. 5, 2019 – Indianapolis Colts defensive coordinator Matt Eberflus will interview Sunday with Browns (via Tom Pelissero)

Jan. 5, 2019 – Browns interview Patriots linebackers coach Brian Flores for head coaching position

Jan. 5, 2019 – The Browns have not reached out to former Cardinals head coach Bruce Arians for an interview (via Mary Kay Cabot); the Tampa Bay Buccaneers interviewed Arians on Saturday

Jan. 4, 2019 – Browns interview Saints assistant head coach and tight ends coach Dan Campbell for head coaching position

Jan. 3, 2019 – Browns interview Vikings’ offensive coordinator Kevin Stefanski for head coaching position

Jan. 3, 2019 – Browns and New England Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels have mutual interest in each other, however, no interview has been scheduled yet (via Canton Repository)

Jan. 3, 2019 – Browns offensive coordinator Freddie Kitchens will interview early next week for head coaching job; team is denying requests to interview Kitchens, who is under contract next season, for coordinator jobs as to give the new head coach an opportunity to retain him

Jan. 3, 2019 – Browns moved up Vikings’ offensive coordinator Kevin Stefanski’s interview from Monday to Thursday (via Adam Schefter)

Jan. 3, 2019 – Browns interview with former Packers head coach Mike McCarthy rescheduled for next week (via ESPN's Rob Demovsky)

Jan. 2, 2019 – Browns interview former Lions and Colts head coach Jim Caldwell for head coaching position

Jan. 1, 2019 – Browns to interview former Packers head coach Mike McCarthy Thursday (via ESPN)

Jan. 1, 2019 – Browns complete interview with Gregg Williams for head coaching position

Jan. 1, 2019 – Browns have no plans to interview former Miami head coach Adam Gase (via Mary Kay Cabot)

Jan. 1, 2019 – Lincoln Riley signs multi-year extension to remain at Oklahoma essentially taking him out of the running for Browns job

Jan. 1, 2019 – The Browns will interview 8-9 candidates for head coaching job starting with Gregg Williams Tuesday. Offensive coordinator Freddie Kitchens, Colts offensive coordinator Nick Sirianni, Vikings offensive coordinator Kevin Stefanski, Colts defensive coordinator Matt Eberflus, Saints assistant head coach/tight ends coach Dan Campbell. They'd also like to interview New England defensive coordinator Brian Flores and offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels. (via Jason LaCanfora)

Dec. 31, 2018 – Browns have requested permission to interview New England defensive coordinator Brian Flores (via Adam Schefter)

Dec. 31, 2018 – Browns GM John Dorsey confirms he will interview interim coach Gregg Williams on Tuesday, Jan. 1

Dec. 31, 2018 – Browns GM John Dorsey confirms offensive coordinator Freddie Kitchens is a candidate for the head coach job

Dec. 31, 2018 – Browns expected to show interest in Steelers offensive line coach and former Titans head coach Mike Munchak (via Alex Marvez)

Dec. 31, 2018 – Browns owner Jimmy Haslam “is interested in” former Dolphins head coach Adam Gase (via Jeff Darlington)

Dec. 31, 2018 – Browns have requested permission to interview Colts defensive coordinator Matt Eberflus (via Tom Pelissero)

Dec. 31, 2018 – Browns have requested permission to interview Colts offensive coordinator Nick Sirianni (via Tom Pelissero)

Dec. 31, 2018 – Browns have requested permission to interview Saints assistant head coach/tight ends coach Dan Campbell (via Ian Rapoport)

Dec. 31, 2018 – Browns have requested permission to interview Vikings offensive coordinator Kevin Stefanski (via Ian Rapoport)

Dec. 31, 2018 – Browns have interest in former Lions and Colts head coach Jim Caldwell (via Ian Rapoport)

Dec. 30, 2018 – Browns reached out to former Packers head coach Mike McCarthy (via Toronto Sun)

https://923thefan.radio.com/cleveland-browns-2019-head-coach-search-tracker
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: ! - 09/20/19 11:26 PM
Nobody in their right mind would do that.
Posted By: Bull_Dawg Re: ! - 09/21/19 12:54 AM
Originally Posted By: PrplPplEater
Nobody in their right mind would do that.


People settle because they fear rejection all the time.

I'm not saying that was the case here. I just asked the question. The scheme to personnel fit seems to be a work in progress.

We wanted guys who would give legitimacy to a HC who had been a position coach the previous year. You could say we got that I suppose.

Were they the best guys for the job? Maybe. It's too soon to tell.
Posted By: Dawgs4Life Re: ! - 09/21/19 06:00 PM
Thanks for the timeline Pit
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: ! - 09/21/19 06:20 PM
No problem. It looked like what you were hoping to find with some more specifics.
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