Such a disappointment

Fire Kitchens now.

We suck?

Kitchens and his whole staff, baker and Dorsey are not any better than anything we’ve had since 99

Couldn't have said it better. Get these guys out of here.

I think Baker’s lack of progress is hurting us, as is the coaching staff ... and quite honestly, Baker didn’t play a terrible game comparatively. But we’re just stuck in a terrible rut

The Denver defense is among the best in the league. Considering that Baker didn't play horrible. With that said, he missed guys that he should have hit.

We have one more win than the Dolphins who have traded all their good players and are tanking.

No turnovers!

I think Baker lack of progress from not addressing the OL in the Off season ... JMHO

Isn’t that like saying, “I didn’t get shingles when I got older”?

"Twice as many wins" doesn't sound as depressing.

Can’t keep making excuses for his lack of progress.

Einstein could not even fathom the mathematical improbabilities of the Browns woes.

I will post this for the rest of my time on these boards until they do SOMETHING GOOD.
And it will probably be true all the way to my grave.
That is how utterly hopeless this franchise has been for as long as I can remember. I am 48. I am not going to continue to torture myself any longer.
Finally at my last straw.
I have nothing left to say about the Browns until they do SOMETHING not typical of them.
There are my post Browns thoughts. Peace.

I'm 63 how much longer do I have to wait for this organization to get it right ...

Whitehead was responsible for missing key tackles on two TDs. The guy sucks, every game he does this.

For once I'm with the poor play calling crowd. Fourth and a foot and you have Chubb on the sidelines.

This team sucks, period.

If I'm Dorsey and Haslam I would tell Freddie he has to give up playcalling or resign.

I think that most of the players are pissed and starting to believe in the Cleveland curse.

The WASTING of TO’s is alarming .. it’s a horrible trend

I’m sure this is all Grossi’s fault.

Honestly, I believe the season is over as it usually is this time of year. We can now start talking about the draft and what we need because we will be drafting in the top 10 again; as usual.

Its a combination of bad play calling, Baker not developing, and Oline that while decent at pass blocking they are way below average at run blocking add into that, Hubbard stinks and Robinson is to up and down with his play.

We basically had to challenge the fourth down play. The second was because we got the play in late, the third was OBJ not lining up right and Landry calling TO. Sloppy.

Fire Kitchens, bench Baker. Dorsey has to do something.

Thanks Damarious Randall for missing games and putting Whitehead on the field

Well I saw a good backup QB in Baker...

Not sure we are going to get more out of him

They ruin football for me.

Whitehead’s play wasn’t optimal

To be this incohesive 8 games in is evidence that something is VERY wrong.
There are some guys underperforming but overall the team and the game day management is a mess. A rotten, stinking, unprofessional mess!

I could take it better when our roster was like Miami's but this roster is loaded mostly and should be winning where does that place the blame???

Whitehead has to go for sure. I do agree with the rest.

On everyone.

I’m not a Fire the coach guy. I usually say let them finish the year.

I even defended Hue Jackson of all people...

Fire Kitchens TONIGHT.

Some of the worst coaching I’ve ever seen even considering he's a rookie

SF had a terrible season last year... although I dont think Freddie is like Kyle and Baker is no JG...

Please, Freddy is crap!! Why isnt anyone asking him why it takes so long to get a play in?? You do know that alot of times, the browns are almost about to get a penalty. That means Baker cannot see anything coming to the line or D adjustments or audibles. So ask those questions first

Freddie couldn't hold Kyle's jock strap

they had a bad season because JG went out injured.

we are having a bad season because of our playcalling and injuries

Baker is not a good QB...

And if he did he’d hold it too long then give it to the wrong guy

I still think he will be after this year.

and I am so far from a Baker lover it's not even funny.

yeah, i'm not sure where we go from here.
the defense sucks.
the offense sucks.

i can't figure out which one I'm more disappointed in. Bad offenses still manage to win with a good defense. And honestly, we did not have a bad offense today. Yeah, they got field goals instead of Td's, but it was points. Then D just kept giving up stupid stuff.

At this point, its a train wreck. I think Kitchens needs to give up the play calling, its his best chance of saving his job. Something just isn't meshing between Monken and Kitchens, and the flow the offense on the field. Nothing sets up the next play, its just mind boggling.

Only thing this team has done right this year is not give up the first round pick for a 31 year old left tackle. Right now, that pick is looking top ten.....

Nop, he's a bit better than Colt Mckoy, very limited, and D's are exploiting this.

same old [censored]

Baker is no better than last year .. in fact, he’s worse. That, in itself, is cause for concern

Others are getting a lot of attention and I don't want to let the defense off the hook:

6.4 yards per carry to a team that was starting a guy that hadn't play in 1000 days.

Complete whiffs on a bunch of tackles.

No turnovers.

No Chubb on 4th and 1 at the 5 ... enough said!!!

D is not good, but with an average/good QB we would have won this.

I agree. You have to start asking if Baker is actually a franchise QB. He was playing with house money last year and let it rip. He has pressure and expectations this year and has not delivered.

this sums up the coaching staff right here

they don't know who they have on their team or how to use what they have.

[u][/u]Wasted timeouts. We were not going to overturn the spot on 4th and goal inside the five, for starters.
Every week.m, Freddie shows his lack of game management.

Dorsey isn't going to fire Freddie and admit he effed up the coaching thing, I can tell you that.
Baker played solid today, OBJ made some nice catches but he was putting on an act for the big screen after we failed on fourth and four at the end, kicking and acting frustrated on the sidelines.

I knew it could be a problem when we traded a lot of capital for him.

What's up with the shoe thing? Why don't these clowns just wear standard football shoes instead of making statements with what they wear on their feet?
Now we're starting to see it.

To be clear, I wasn't making excuses. I said that he missed guys. He needs to be better.

Yo guys

What the hell happen to the deep ball?

We just don’t take any shots anymore. Sup with that?

Chubb was out of the game for 3rd and 4th down when Baker of all people tried a QB sneak.

THIS ALONE SHOULD BE REASON TO FIRE KITCHENS IMMEDIATELY!!!!!!!!!

I am so sick of the stupid things this team does and still calls themselves a pro football team.Coaches included.

Continuity?

Yep.

The 2019 Cleveland Browns: 'We still suck, just not as bad as we usually do.'

I’m convinced Mayfield is a bust. He doesn’t have it mentally. He is mentally weak and he can’t read coverages. On average according to my stopwatch in games thus far Mayfield was on average getting 4 seconds of pass protection, 42 year old Tom Brady comparison is averaging 2.7 seconds of pass protection. 4 secs of protection is a long time Brady would die to have that kinda protection.

Mayfield can’t read coverage. He has trouble going through progressions. We would have to hitch our wagon to him for another 3 years and hope he gets it. My gut tells me he is done. You can see it Mayfield eyes he doesn’t have the same swagger, the same confidence, I see a frustrated young man that is ready to burst and cry. He don’t get it why things suck this year.

I was only on board with Mayfield if he sat for two years. Through hell or high water to hell with the fans, media, and everything else we should have kept Tyrod Taylor for two years and had Mayfield sit Luke Carson Palmer sat behind an inferior Jon Kitna. What your seeing out of Mayfield this year is what Todd Haley told us last year in camp that Mayfield wasn’t ready and had a lot to learn but Dorsey just wouldn’t listen

No matter how bad Taylor played Mayfield should have sat like Mahomes did. We made a huge mistake here I think we have already ruined Mayfield.

It also makes me concerned that FK is so egotistical that he believes all players are created equal and he can insert any player into his playcalling and they will perform like a well-oiled machine such has NE.

if he would just get the ball to his playmakers.... we would have won at least 3 more games than we have now.

Too much Hilliard ... especially in key spots

Oh and the D has more holes than a block of swish cheese.

Its not just missing guys, the whole offense is crippled because of him, playcalling is limited, etc

I bet the coaches told the Baker to back off the deep pass.

He had multiple steps on his defender; he has every right to be upset. If your QB makes an accurate throw, that's a TD.

Did anyone ever think that maybe Mayfield just isn't that good and he's being exposed with his numerous deficiencies?

Freddie's presser is typical. We need to do this. We need to that. We have eight games left. We have to do something with them. We can only win one game at a time. Really? Here's some advice: WIN A DAMN GAME!

With a average/good OL, an average/good QB would have time to not be captain check down. Which in turn would be able to get the ball downfield without having to have our shifty guys get clobbered trying to YAC for simple first downs. There fixed.

Maybe Hunt will help although I don't want him taking Chubbs touches ...

I saw Hilliard in on enough plays that I think they started to put the game plan in for when Hunt comes off of suspension,

But! Hunt ain't out there, Hilliard is, so what's the net result.

I think you have to start to wonder at this point. He's not a cerebral QB. He seems to drop back and just wing it. You never get the impression he has hot reads or anything that would resemble some thought. It's drop back, if the first read is not there get somewhat frazzled, move around the pocket, and then fire a 95 mph fastball no matter the length of the throw.

Baker just cannot beat good defenses.

Blamming OBJ is just aberrant... Baker is not a good QB, he is a backup at best.

Though I do have one question: On your 4th and 1 play, is that information right where it says there was NO running back on the field at all?

I have no confidence in Freddie at this point. His presser is the same ol’ thing. We need someone that can evaluate the problems, not pass them off as we’re still learning.

Post Game.

I no longer think the team will have a winning record vs the division,

that with a 1-0 record and 5 games to go and only the Ravens have their crap together.

Bleh! ^ That hurts to say.

he will be taking Hilliard's which will be welcomed

And the obligatory Baker presser: We just got execute better. Well no kidding genius. Maybe you should work on that this week instead of worrying about another commercial. Jackass.

Well, that was one ugly ass game by the Browns offense, actually, the D didn't do much better. The D had moments of piss poor tackling and getting burned by the pass, Ward got played by Denver on their first TD, and all this by a QB who has never thrown a pass in the NFL.

I have to lay this also at Dorsey's feet, not this game specifically, but this whole season. I'll explain. Dorsey has made two mistakes that I can see, I thought it was only one but I now believe it to be two. Mistake No.1. trading Zeitler for Vernon, thus, crippling the OL, mistake No.2 hiring the wrong coach, sorry, but I now feel that Freddy is not the right guy and his whole coaching staff on both sides of the ball sucks. Maybe not every single position coach but a lot of them, especially on defense.

So, we are 2-6 and this season is basically over. It's up to Dorsey to help fix the problems. He can start by looking for a new HC, and then buil the f'n Offensive Line dammit. You can say the OL isn't that bad, but I see Baker running for his life half the time, LT, RT, are [censored]. If the OL was any good, we'd be able to pick up 1 f'n yard, we can't, I knew we'd lose that challenge and yes, I believe it was a very bad spot but we should have been able to gain enough to make no mistake about picking up the first down. period.

As long as he takes Hilliard's touches I'm good.

OBJ’s wanting of the ball is justified ... gotta give him the shot to win it for us in that spot

That's what I saw. Our O is very limited because Baker is limited.

We have a great RB, great receivers, but the playbook is just dumbd down because Baker can't do it.

No point in moving out of the pocket because he is so innacurate there, he can't stretch the field horizintaly or vertically, so all is cramped down.

The D's are playing in a short field, they do not respect Baker.

That's why you have OBJ with single coverage and play Landry so many times in the backfield.

Last year a lot of our deep balls came on play action with max protection in 12 personnel. We just don't do that anymore.

Also, we really do have trouble pass blocking. It is a real thing that affects the deep ball.

"Nothing sets up the next play"

I think you are right,

if this offense were a book it would read like stereo instructions.

Yeah, I don't like the blaming of OBJ. If he explodes, he should.

Baker has no idea how to play professional QB. He has no idea what he's looking at pre or post snap.

His coach isn't doing him any favors. No flow to the play calling. Dialing up Hilliard at the weirdest times.

And his defensive coach doesn't blitz a guy who hasn't taken a snap in 3 years allowing him to get comfortable. Wow.

Browns are losers. They always will be until they're not.

Meanwhile, Pittsburgh is on a 4 game winning streak with 2nd and 3rd string QBs. They care about winning and develop game plans with that in mind. They have a culture that makes the coaches and players care about winning. The Browns have a culture where individuals try to prove how smart and how great they are.

The Browns are the dregs of the league. We will not beat Buffalo next week. They play the right way and care about winning.

Who calls a safety blitz with OBJ and Landry in the field? DC's have figured Baker out and know he can't beat them...

Well said. Losers lose. And that’s us ... and Baker isn’t the answer it appears. He’s shown no progress

SF was a bad team last year... there is no reason to blow this away.

Just some major adjustments, specially at HC and QB...

I atually don't think we need some extra special HC and QB, just some competent ones. Real players and Real Coaches.

It's a bummer.

I haven't said much about Freddie, but he is as bad as Hue.

You don't go for it until you have to go for it.

When Baker was stopped short, bad call or not, we should have taken 3 points.

Had we done that, we wouldn't have had to go for it on 4th and 4. We could have taken 3 points and taken the lead.

Week after week we use up our time-outs way early in the half.

The shine is off both Freddie and Dorsey.

I have officially vacated my seat on the "try to defend Freddie" bandwagon. This is all on him. All of it. Our play calling on critical downs is unexplainable. You have 4th and a long one to potentially save your season and your absolute best player is on the sidelines and you run an off tackle QB sneak with a QB who is neither all that big nor all that fast.

I could rant about 1000 little things and individual players but I'm just not up to it at the moment.

I don't think Baker can see down the field. It seems when the rush is coming from the left, he doesn't see anything on that side of the field.

Baker is a back up QB in this league, I'm convinced he will never get any better.

That being said, the defense lost this game. Once again a depleted Oline and a first time starter at QB and they can't stop them. IMO Whitehead gave up both TDs, missing the tackle on the TE and missing the tackle on Lyndsey.

If they did fire Freddie tonight, I would not care. This team is a pathetic group of so called "good" players. I'm starting to think that getting Beckam ruined the chemistry of the team. Also, Baker is not a strter in the NFL.

Dorsey is just as liable right now ... hiring FK, not fixing the OL, and using assets to trade/change the chemistry is on him

How do you run twice as many plays as the other team, control the clock, win the turnover battle and still lose?

This team continues to astound us with new lows every week.

Just blow the whole thing up and start over next year. I'm so (many explicitives) sick of rebooting and staritng over. But it has to be done again. This is not working, no excuses for losing this game today.

Kitchens definitely needs to be fired.
Don't fire Dorsey, that would be a mistake, let him complete his rebuilding plan.
Don't give up on Baker, don't want to see him reach his potential with another team.
Need to upgrade the OL and LBs.

At least he's not like Hue and say it was Baker's call...

But you are right, clearly Freddie is way over his head, his QB isn't helping him though..

Rookie HC and a QB who does not know how to read a D, is not a good combination.

where is Mike Polk to make another video when we need him???

I agree with all of this. we are on pace to be drafting Chase Young with the 2nd pick.

I think Dorsey traded away some of our better players in Zeitler, Charles, Ogbah, etc. and has nothing but scrubs to show for it.

Baker Mayfield didn't lose the game today. People trashing him in here are just furthering an agenda. Was he great? No. Did he miss a handful of open shots. Yes. Was he the reason we lost? Not even close. 64% completion against a very good D. But whatever. Those that want to anoint him a bust have did so weeks ago. Actually they did it before he was drafted and are still hoping they are right.

Horrible game management. Horrible play calling. Horrible offensive scheme. Horrible that we can't throw a blocking FB out there for even a single play..... As someone else said - If I am Dorsey I tell Freddie he isn't handing the play calling and if he wants to come back next year he needs to learn how to coach a team as the HC.

Where is Higgins!!!!

Right there with you.

Well, my post game thought: the first half of that SMU-Memphis game was a corker last night.

Well he didn not win it and he had the chance...

The QB sneak and the OBJ pass he didn't make.

If you draft a QB because he is a winner, but he can't win one...

And actually all I see is a O limited by the QB inneptitude. He just does not understand the game to the requierd level.

Someone has to read the D and make adjustments...

I never believed all the hype. I made a statement back in the summer; the Browns are still the Browns until their not the Browns anymore. It's still a losing atmosphere and it hasn't changed and won't until the wins start coming. Talk is just that, talk.

Eh, I'm not in meltdown mode because I saw a few games ago that FK is completely incompetant as a head coach. And if Monken is designing those plays then he needs to go also. I've also changed opinions on Wilks as he has an inability to ever bring the heat. He hardly ever blitzes and that should have been the gameplan tonight.

These coaches are idiots and all need fired.

Our talent is fine. Baker is fine. They would all play better with better coaching and schemes.

Also, can we please get an OL.

Last season was fool's gold, and I feel Dorsey will get some good coaches next season.

Fire them all mam...

Well at least our kicker and punter are really good.

Baker is only fine, that is one of the major problems... We need a QB with a good grasp of teh game, and Baker isn't it.

Reading the D and making adjustments, he has to do it... so many blunders...

We are on pace to be drafting 8th, not 2nd.

Cleveland Browns lost for lots of reasons today. The very biggest of them all is putrid, horrible coaching.

You want to make the loss about Baker - suit yourself. Flipping it to "well he didn't win the game" is B.S. .... but have at it with your agenda.

I agree. That is why I said the shine is off of him as well.

We can still have a pretty good season, but I am just not feeling it right now. Just too many things that just don't feel right.

Both Landry and Beckham had to change their shoes to be able to play in the 2nd half. Non conforming uniforms. That is on the coaching staff.

You see what these guys are wearing. I coached a lot of baseball. The first thing I did was to check all the players to see they were wearing their uniforms the way I demanded or the way the team voted on day one. We were all going to look the same.

Period. No discussion.

Granted, coaching matters in the NFL and there is enough blame to go around starting with Freddie. I would say Freddie, Wilks, the defense showing a lot of quit, and Baker are all culprits.

But Baker doesn't know what he is doing or how to play professional QB at a level you would expect from the first overall pick. Freddie, Wilks, and the D aside, he's just not very good right now. There's no reason for everything on the offense to be so frenetic if Baker has an idea of what to do both post and pre snap. But he's really struggling doing that. He's shown almost no improvement since the start of the season. I think it's fair to start getting concerned.

I also mentioned before the game we will see what the this team thinks of its captain. The defense completely rolled over today. They didn't rally around Baker after he was the target of the media for more ill advised antics.

I think that may be more damning than his play.

Rishuz,
Again, that is a symptom of Freddy not tailoring a offense to what Baker does well vs not well. Also, Baker's internal clock on pressure is not good..

I just rewatched the 4th down play to Landry.. First he had to see the DEN was bringing pressure. Second, if you look at the play, BAKER WAS LATE throwing to Landry.. to make it worse he only looked at Landry because Beckum and #88 were open. #88 was open due to Landry dragging across...

So even on that play, Beckum was open, Landry was open right away and #88 was late opening...

Landry cut under Calloway and is open right away....

*

Except it's not BS. Franchise QBs are supposed to win games. Especially when they have the ball on a potential game winning drive.

Did anyone think Baker was going to convert the 4th and 4? I had less than 5% confidence.

The biggest flaw with BAker is that he's a midget, gets passes batted down a fair amount of the time, and he just can't seem to see the field well. So, the decision needs to be made, if we need a new QB then that is our 1st round pick but we won't be picking No.1 so I don't know if we can upgrade?

Personally, I'd upgrade the OL first, give Baker more time to develop, I'm certainly not saying everything is Baker's fault, cause it's not.

Agreed.
They're actually quite a step down from a number of the earlier regimes.

Season is over; unless I'm *really* bored, there is no reason to tune in on Sundays any longer. I didn't see it coming, but this team is as much Fools Gold as Anderson's team was.

I had thought, even before Free Agency and other moves, that this was a 12-4 team. Now, I think it is more like a 4-12 team. There is ZERO chance we beat Pittsburgh, and I feel it unlikely we beat Baltimore again. Honestly, playing Cinci twice and Miami is probably the only reason we might hit 5 wins and that's only because they will work harder to lose than we will.

This teams is imploding by the second.

He's the best QB we have had since Bernie, and he is the best we will draft for a long time.

We need coaches who can scheme towards our strengths. Our coaches suck and help nobody. Higgins barely even played. Where was SJ all game?

The players have checked out on Kitchens, they have absolutely no faith in him.

No agenda here folks - but you heard it right - It's Baker's fault that the D stunk today.

Awesome and very balanced take.

+1 ... don't get why people become so personnal, nobody is here wanting Baker to fail.

He is just very limited. He's missing plays, he's not seing D miss matches, he's not seeing uncoverd defenders.

He can't just be there and execute the play, he's the heart and sould of the O, and he is actually dragging the O, not making it better.

Tank for Tua?

You talk about worrying about Ants when the Elephants are getting though .. You gotta be kidding me!!..


Everyone worried about shoes when we got other problems!! The NFL and each team has someone who looks at uniforms. SO the NFL could have said something BEFORE the game, when they usually do. Freddy aint got time to worry about cleats.

Freddy needs to worry about his sorry play calling and how long it takes him to call the plays... How about that!

Im more pissed with the defense than I am with offense.. Yea we could score more but darn, we always seem to give up the big plays and have the WORST tackling I've seen in years. Not happy with the DC at all with some of the play calling.. Maybe thats Kitchens or Bakers fault too.

I wonder how long before Progressive pulls the Baker commercials or cut ties with him completely.

I am tired of your stale crap. Baker wasn't the problem today. Just give it up.

I am saying that respectfully.

Actually that's not what I said. I'm not blaming Baker for the defense playing poorly. I think they played poorly because they are poorly coached and largely made up of players who don't care about winning.

But I was hoping the team would show some fight today and support for their QB who took a beating in the media this week. I didn't see that.

I would also counter argue that your takes are extremely unbalanced. You don't like to assign any blame to Baker.

j/c

Postgame thoughts:
1) We should have kicked the field goal on the 4th and 1 QB sneak.
2) I think it was a bad spot on Baker's sneak, but we should have kicked a field goal.
3) If we had kicked a field goal on the 4th and 1, we could have kicked another on the final 4th down for a one point lead...especially with our kicker who was 4 for 4 today and hasn't missed this year.
4) Since we didn't kick field goals when we should have and put ourselves in a must-covert game-on-the-line 4th down, Baker should have known before the snap to throw to OBJ if he was single covered (he was).
5)Our Defense was a let down.
6) Garrett should have squeezed that int.
7) The season is basically over and Baker is worse now than he was at the end of last season.
8) Why are we completely inept in the redzone this year after being great there last year?
9) How bad in Vernon's injury?

I'm not going to give up anything Peen. Other than this board as I'm starting to lose interest in the Browns.

The guy we drafted to be the franchise QB had another chance to put the team on his shoulders and deliver a victory. One and a half seasons worth of games and he can't beat anyone of note. He failed again.

Winning is all that matters, not completion percentage through 3.5 quarters.

lmao Whitehead just melted down on twitter, I can't even repeat here what I just read. He'll be cut tomorrow morning.

J/C

You want my opinion? Nah, nobody asked for it but here you go anyway.

Baker Mayfield is a wannabe, scrub NFL QB. He's a one-read gimmick QB. He is Johnny Manziel 2.0 with a better arm (minus the alcohol abuse) - but punk-ass attitude included.

I quit REALLY caring what happened to this franchise the day they drafted Manziel. I re-affirmed my lack of caring the day we drafted Mayfield. He is a bust.

Last year he played really well. Well beyond what I ever thought he could. But - he had an offense that was REALLY dumbed down for him and he was playing with zero pressure since the season was over before he took the field. People drank the kool-aid. I didn't. This year he's been exposed for what he really is.

Lord Dorsey, king of the cud chewers and God who can do no wrong, drafted him. Oops.

Freddie Kitchens can't coach his way out of a paper bag. He deserves to be fired tonight. Before the plane lands. He won't be.

Lord Dorsey, king of the cud chewers and God who can do no wrong, hired him. Oops.

OBJ is an incredible WR. He's also an insane prima donna who cares more about his shoes and watches than winning games as long as he gets his highlight catches. Wide receiver is also possibly the LEAST important/impactful position on the football field except for long snapper. Literally. It doesn't matter how good or bad you are - the only way you're successful is if a) the OLine blocks well AND b) the coach schemes a good route tree and progression AND c) the QB can read the D and find the correct place to throw the football. If a through c don't happen, you can put a blind squirrel or Jerry Rice at WR and it doesn't matter. THIS is why you never ever EVER build your O around WR's or pay them big $$$. Yes, to be fair, our WR corps was horrible under Sashi and needed upgraded. To be fair, you have to have guys who are physically athletic enough to play WR in the NFL (i.e. run routes and get a step on guys) - but that's not hard to find. You also have to have guys with good enough hands to catch the football. This is slightly harder to find - but you can have a winning team with a bunch of "C" WR's. You don't have to have a bunch of "A" all-pro
type guys. Give me guys who can catch and block with enough athleticism and work hard/are smart to read D - and you'll have a winning WR corps.

Lord Dorsey, king of the cud chewers and God who can do no wrong, traded for OBJ. We didn't NEED him. Oops.

The REAL problem is, we have a joke of an owner in Jimmah Haslam who couldn't run a football team or hire a proper front office if given 100 lifetimes. And he hired Lord Dorsey, king of the cud chewers and God who can do no wrong.

Let's start with firing Dorsey.

It will never happen.

This team will continue to be a steaming pile. Rinse and repeat.

A real FO realizes that the NFL comes down to this. A coach and QB. We have neither, but the bigger problem is our FO (IMO) doesn't realize it. But...nobody dares question Lord Dorsey.

Have fun guys.

What are you talking about?? If it were not for this board you would have absolutely NO LIFE since you are on here 24-7.

Gotta cut Whitehead asap please

I disagree with you here. I think you and KOB want Baker to fail. I actually think you guys take great joy in it.

You wrote a paragraph siting Baker and the defense and how they would respond and play for him.... Your implication, inference, taint is 100% connecting Baker and augg sting that somehow the D's play is connected to Baker.

You can't write that sentence and then feign you didn't connect the two things.

I agree with Eve, Baker is not the complete problem, does he have issues, yes, but Eve is also right to say that coaching is a BIG part of those issues.

Dorsey is one of the better talent finders we've had, just needs to find better coaching and not trade away good OL, like Zeitler. We need to find LT and RT. That's two thing s that will help a lot.

The defense could also benefit from proper coaching, specifically, how to tackle.

I really don't know what to say......I thought the Browns were "meh". Nothing overwhelmingly bad, nothing overwhelming good.

- Mack Wilson flashed at times.
- Ogunjobi flashed at times.
- Myles Garrett was around the ball, I guess.
- Beckham & Landry dropped passes. The shoe situation is a joke.
- Schobert was consistently good, even forcing a fumble.
- I thought the line was very good at times, other times, not so much.
- Hubbard is a joke.
- Whitehead is bad and then made a racial slur against a media member. I'm guessing he is cut.
- Baker wasn't bad, but not great either.
- Chubb is the workhorse and I'm glad we have him.


Bottom line, I think this team might have checked out for season. Today's game didn't really present any glaring issues to me, but it didn't really rectify anything either, outside perhaps the penalties.

I think the season is over. Thank goodness we didn't trade any significant picks before the deadline.

Whitehead has lost what little mind he had.

If he isn't, it speaks even MORE about how completely in over his head and unable to control the team Freddie is.

If Whitehead isn't cut tomorrow, Freddie better be (well he should be anyway) - but you can't have practice squad players who just missed 18 tackles and lost your team a game out there acting like juvenile delinquents from the hood and levying multiple death threats via social media from the locker room without consequences.

Oh thats rich

Freddie isn't in control of the roster.

Even berry at 25% would be better than any safety on this tea

It’s off the rails at this point ... we need a complete 180

I think that would be more in Dorseys realm.

Team had no heart today. Also, where was the intensity?

That's hilarious

Yup. That completely falls on Dorsey.

I think they should have kept zampese this year. He’ll they should hire him tomorrow

There are simply no excuses for this team.

Denver's quarterback has never started a game. His first practice with the team started Wednesday.

Denver should not have scored more than 10 points.

The defense is way overrated. No straight pressure from the front four. Look at the difference in talent from both sides of the ball. And we lose this game?

The offensive concepts in the red zone are pitiful. Play designs? Routes?

Hard to watch. When I watch games I watch each Browns offensive play twice in a row. Pay close attention. Robinson and Hubbard are lousy players. I could care less about their grades. Poor technique. Upright, slow feet. A decent move on either guy and they are toast.

Baker was not good. Missed reads and was late on some throws. On the one miss in the end zone to Landry; he was late with the throw.

But this is way deeper than just that.

There is no reason for this team to play the way they have this season.

Normally I support coaches. But in this case the coaches have to take responsibility. Denver is a poor team. Playing with a practice squad quarterback and the Browns were outplayed on both sides of the ball. There can be no excuses for that.

I see no reason for this team to have a 2-6 record.

I have zero interest in watching them play.

It seems hard to believe that is the same team that last year with lessor players could not be stopped in the red zone?

I simple do not understand that. I saw the graphics on completion percentage. But again there is more to it than that.

Dorsey is faced with a huge decision. I don't envy him.

I honestly felt they could win this game easily and get on a roll. I don't see that happening now. There are no easy games for this team.

In so many ways what has happened does not make sense.

I have gone from super excited for the season to begin to a total lack of interest.

j/c:

Something has to change between now and next Sunday. Not sure what it is, but I think it is imminent.

#FreeToddMonken.

This is something that is going to have to be an offseason shift IMO ... we need a complete overhaul of the coaching staff and we need Baker to STUDY, LEARN, PRACTICE all offseason ... and do it like a pro

Technically you're correct Lord Dorsey owns the roster. But I'm sorry, the coach runs the team. If "I" were Freddie (and thank the lord I'm not) I'd personally cut him anyway and tell Dorsey to sign the documents to make it "official".

But alas it's Lord Dorsey's call. Which means Whitehead is fine. Dorsey loves those guys.

Just think - we get Kareem Hunt back tomorrow!

I don't think Beckham is immune from this approach either.

Nope, instead we'll lose to a pretty good Bills team and a Steelers team after that which is trending upward. We'll maybe win a game against the Dolphins (who are playing more inspired football than us right now) and probably beat the Bengals twice. That's most likely it. So we finish 5-11. Sad, pathetic and embarassing.

Look.. If that really was Whitehead, then the Browns should suspend him a game. BUT you better make sure you have a safety to replace him.

Second, if he had a broken hand, WTF was he doing out there?? After that first miff, it was apparent that he was not trying to use his hands. So if he had a broken hand, then it should have been wrapped OR dont play him.

This is a really lazy straw man argument, FWMHOIW.

- New week. Same story. Another loss.

- Nick Chubb not in on 3rd and short as well as 4th and 1 in a critical situation.

- Tackling was putrid

- Baker cannot put it in the end zone inside the red zone to save his life.

- Poor coaching. Poor preparedness. Another week of "a great practice."

- A QB that has never taken a snap in the regular season just beat this "talented" team.

- It did not cost us the game, but we got Landry and OBJ concerning themselves with wearing customized cleats and getting called on it. Just speaks to the culture in Cleveland and how far this team really is from competing with the big boys.

- KC wining w/ a guy that was coaching a HS team, Pittsburgh winning with a back-up and third stringer and we cannot win a game the #1 overall pick in the draft.

- I have know idea what the hell Ryan Lindley does and what his qualifications are other than Baker likes him, but he's does nothing to fix Baker's issues this season. Get him out.

- This team has serious issues. The culture, lack of team chemistry and leadership is blatantly apparent.

- This team smelled itself all offseason and thought they could just show up and win.

- Good grief, I cannot believe this is where we are at....again.

2-6 was just about the WORST case scenario heading into the season. You’d be hard pressed to find many people who thought we’d be THIS bad.

Your'e sure we finish that well??....Try 2-14.

Sooo ... the ravens are kicking the crap out of NE

Have you been chain watching The Replacements again? "Miles and miles of heart."

We don't have it. have a fair number of lazy folks, and a good amount of quit. BELIEVEland? Not so much today. Hubbard? Robinson?

Purge. Exorcism? "Don't fix blame; fix problems.

I will say, for the hundredth time, I was very concerned with how Freddie handled the preseason, but said I would shut up about it because he deserved the chance to show if that arrogant and unconventional stance was indeed going to be successful. Well, that blew up in his face. It isn’t just that, though, as we all know. When you are a poor decision maker it goes on and on, and he has continued to show very bad decision making throughout the season.

I have never been someone to call for the firing of a coach this early in the season and this early in a career. But, I have no faith in this man or his ability to grow or change.

I am also very concerned about Mayfield. Maybe it’s on coaching, but he’s completely lost.

Jarvis Landry
13 targets
6 receptions
51 yards
8.5 yd avg.
1 TD (first of the season)

This is not efficient for a guy making $14M a year and guaranteed $47M.

Yes, I understand Baker is a factor in this box score as well, but today's game is not an outlier.

Not good.

What we are watching with Balt vs NE is a team that is running a college offense, tailored for his QB. Also, that same team will just line up and run it down your throat!!

Playing inspired football, doing there jobs, nothing Cleveland has done for this year... maybe once!!..

The Browns are going to " Brown " Baker ( think Couch )

You're pushing an agenda here. Landry is one of the only guys that plays with any heart on this team. So let's trash him about his contract. Dumb.

I noticed how inefficient we are throwing to our WRs as well ... just not productive at all

Does anyone think about how Baker spread the ball around all the different Receivers we used last season .. our efficiency in the Red Zone in the second half of the season ??

That's fair.

I knocked the contract the minute it was signed. But I have yet to be proven wrong on how bad of a deal that was. I don't blame Landry for signing it, but that doesn't make it a good deal.

And "heart" is perception only. I don't see it, and it's clearly not making an impact on the team.

Lamp, that spot should have been challenged and it should have been overturned. Baker was across the first down mark and then pushed back. They spotted the ball where he was shoved backward. Apparently forward progress does not apply to us.

We suck worse, we have more talent and play just as bad.

Turning point of this franchise was firing pettine and keeping farmer over Shanahan. Been down hill since

I completely agree with ou, Jules. I didn't notice much about him in preseason, guess I was excited to see the new young team and all that. lol However, after seeing the Browns week inand week out, I've noticed his bad decisions more and more, seems to be getting worse, plus, I'm not sure how motivational of a person/coach h is? The team sure doesn't respond to him like they did GW last season. I've often thought, a so called "players" coach will be that way, need a HC who can and will kick these guys in the ass and get the best out of them.

I actually wanted GW to reamin as HC and Freddie to be OC but that didn't work out. Unfortunately, I think more changes are on the way.

Well, on a bright note the bandwagon fans are leaving in droves!

Stop panicking!!!
Doesn't everyone know the following:

Kitchens is the next Vince Lombardi
Baker is the next Dan Marino
Whitehead is the next Ronnie Lott
Greg Robinson will turn into Joe Thomas.


See no need to get mad.

j/c:

It’s really odd when someone locks on to such a strange obsession with a player and their contract when there are so many other strikingly obvious reasons this team is failing. People see right through someone who can’t give up on a tired old argument. Give it up, and come up with something fresh.

Someone liked the Landry signing.

And if you don't see how these types of bad contracts for overrated players are affecting this team, well.......there really isn't a need for something fresh. Accept it and deal with it.

From a good read: “...The Steelers won for the fourth time without Ben Roethlisberger Sunday, yet the Browns can’t win with their premiere talent.

Why?

It comes down to coaching, culture and discipline.

The Browns remain deficient in all 3 areas.

Kitchens, who was handed a goldmine of talent in his first stint ever at any level as a head coach, doesn’t know how to use it.”

https://923thefan.radio.com/articles/cleveland-browns-season-jeopardy-denver-broncos-loss

It's astounding to me how much time is taken up talking about cleats from this team.

Cleats.

We have plenty of cap room, so Landry's contract isn't killing us. As far as production, Landry is one of the only guys that's actually doing something, playing with heart, and trying to live up to his contract. As far as the problems this team is having, that's ranked near the bottom.

They killing baker right now

Baker Mayfield looked extremely defeated after Broncos loss, and Twitter had jokes

https://sports.yahoo.com/cleveland-brown...-021137067.html

I bet I know who gets cut!!!

Would it have really made any difference in this game?

He looks like 'Columbo'!

Can't be the team falling behind every game, and expecting to win.

This team waits around too much.

I really want to give Freddie a fair chance because he's 8 games into this, but I don't understand the hire. You showed signs of being very good, and your choice was the guy who took over OC the last half of the year? It's hindsight, but it's a bad hire.

Whoever's call that was, whether it was Dorsey or the Haslams, either way this thing blew up in their faces.

The defense wasn't good enough, and the offense still doesn't get it. This seems no different than the last 10 years.

Who are we kidding, Freddie is probably getting shown the door at the end of the year, I can't see them being able to sell that to anyone (including themselves) so I just hope that behind the scenes, the plan is in place to actually bring in the right guy, because this team badly needs someone that can handle a 53 man roster and a coaching staff. It's not for everyone, I don't even know if there are 32 guys in the world capable of handling the demand. There's a handful of really good coaches, and the rest are your Freddie Kitchens and Pat Shurmurs of the world.

we see it too much with other teams having early success, but it is never us. They should be a lot better than they are. This roster is far from perfect but it's better than 2-6.

I really hope there are no stupid slogans and catch phrases with the next guy, because I think the fans have had enough of that. Just come in and change the culture, and help produce results.

You can call on 'heart' all you'd like.

We're nearing on two years of not living up to the expectations, contract or production.

A rudderless ship
twisting in the storm
dark starless sky
lost

I'm j/c here, but I think too many underestimate coaching on this board.

There's like 2 guys blaming Baker, 1 guy blaming Landry's contract, and most people blaming Freddie.

Deleted

Dear Baker,

Please shave it off.

The Chester The Child Molester Mustache is not a good look.

Go back to the close beard thing. At least you looked trendy then. And not like a 70's porn star.

Sincerely,
EveDawg

Looks like a thin John Candy in (insert any of his movies here)

Here we go......

First the clown shoes and now this.
Maybe he should go threaten to murder someone and he can have his way out also.

I don't blame him feeling that way, but this was something overheard...not him going to the media to say it. But if he did I wouldn't blame him.

Baker didn't even make it in his progression to Odell on that play.

Not sure if this is good or bad, but he was targeted 6 times. He was behind Landry (13 targets) for second on the team.

lmao, I thought something similar, I wouldn't normally give a dam but that stache does not look good.

Fredddie: We're just trying to concentrate on winning a game.

Yep, and that Attention Deficit Disorder is sure kicking in with the team, cause concentration seems to be lacking.

My point is that there are many who have already declared Mayfield a bust. Quite frankly I'm tired of hearing "he missed his read," "he's a one read QB" as if everyone knows those reads. He read the field last year whether it was half, a third, a quarter, or the whole thing and he threw 27 touchdowns. Other than subtracting an offensive guard and adding a stud WR, what's different?

And that's a rhetorical question.

device...coaching has been terrible, no doubt. However, there is also no doubting that it looks like Baker is in a sophomore slump. It's on him to pull himself out of it. So far, in 8/16 games played, we have yet to see him do so.

Baker is having Peyton Mannings rookie season this year instead of last. It doesn't mean he's a bust, lots of quarterbacks go through a serious sophomore slump. Team have film and an entire offseason to make adjustments. I will be worried if he is still having these problems next year. Right now, we should be countering with our RUN GAME. Just buckle down and pound the rock. Go old school. Eat clock. Keep the D off the field as much as possible and maybe they will get it together. No one is talking about how bad the D has played lately. The TRUTH is we should have kept Greg Williams as the HC and kept all the other assistants in place. We were playing good ball last year and it was a mistake to mess with that. BUt it is what it is. Can't go back, have to go forward. So play old school smash mouth football and get these guys fired up to go hit someone in the mouth! Next week we get one of the best backs in the league back from suspension to go with Nick Chubb another one of the best backs in the league. USE THEM early and often. Not like we are winning anyway. So why not just pound the rock and eat the clock? Keep the D fresh as is possible. When teams start putting 8 in the box, THEN throw from under center and use the damn playaction!

I'm not saying he's not. But the amount of people who are giving up on him is a bit ridiculous.

He threw 27 touchdowns last year. Busts don't throw 27 touchdowns in a season. Ever.

I'm the biggest Baker fan there is but a no name QB named Derek Anderson threw 29 TD passes in his second season in 2007.

Basically we are worse the first 8 games under freddie with more talent than we wee under hue with less talent.

OBJ denied that he said this. He was very level headed in his post game media availability.

We had some blunders and errors.... but in the end, we lost for one glaring reason... we had the ball inside their 30 yard line 7 times and got 1 TD and 4 FGs...

Baker was money in the red zone last year... I don't know how to explain it.

I don't get the fact that Higgins has been locked to the sidelines. I hate this idea of "Oh, we didn't play this player because he's not part of that package". Put players on the field who can make plays.

We played this Hodge kid a fair amount today ..... but hardly a sign of Higgins. Why?

I have to question why a bogged down offense is not looking to a guy who was a consistent and reliable target last year. I just don't get it.

The worst thing that happened to Mayfield was him breaking Manning's record last year
It went to his head and Mayfield was believing his own hype.
He thought he arrived as a QB.
Mayfields regression on the field is in concert
With his lack of work ethic and preperation in the Off season

That's just factually inaccurate.

Babe Parilli (31 TD - 1964), career QBR 59.6
George Blanda (36-1961, 27-1962), career QBR 60.6
Norm Snead (29-1967), career QBR 65.5
John Hadl (27-1968), career QBR 67.4
Charley Johnson (28-1963), career 69.2
Steve Grogan (28-1979), career 69.6
Vince Ferragamo (30-1980), career 70.1
Derek Anderson (29-2007), career 70.4
Lynn Dickey (32-1983), career 70.9
Terry Bradshaw (28-1978), career 70.9
John Brodie (30-1965), career 72.3
Ron Jaworski (27-1980), career 72.8
Daryle Lamonica (34-1969, 30-1967), career 72.9
Don Majkowski (27-1989), career 72.9
Frankie Albert (29-1948, 27-1949), career 73.5
Y.A. Tittle (36-1963, 33-1962), career 74.3
Jake Plummer (27-2004), career 74.6
Brian Sipe (30-1980, 28-1979), career 74.8
Vinny Testaverde (33-1996, 29-1998), career 75.0
Sid Luckman (28-1943), career 75.0
Scott Mitchell (32-1995), career 75.3
Ken Stabler (27-1976), career 75.3
Steve Bartkowski (31-1980, 30-1981), career 75.4
Erik Kramer (29-1995), career 76.6
Drew Bledsoe (28-1997, 27-1996), career 77.1
Joe Theismann (29-1983), career 77.4
Frank Ryan (29-1966), career 77.6
Josh Freeman (27-2012), career 77.6
Jeff Blake (28-1995), career 78.0
Johnny Unitas (32-1959), career 78.2
Aaron Brooks (27-2002), career 78.5
Matt Cassel (27-2010), career 78.5
Jim Everett (31-1988, 29-1989), career 78.6
Mark Rypien (28-1991), career 78.9
Elvis Grbac (28-2000), career 79.6
John Elway (27-1997), career 79.9
Dan Fouts (33-1981, 30-1980, 27-1985), career 80.2
Steve Beuerlein (36-1999), career 80.3
Fran Tarkenton (29-1967), career 80.4
Jeff George (29-1997), career 80.4
Blake Bortles (35-2015), career 80.6
Ryan Fitzpatrick (31-2015), career 80.7
Warren Moon (33-1990, 33-1995), career 80.9
Boomer Esiason (28-1988, 28-1989, 27-1985), career 81.1
Jake Delhomme (29-2004), career 81.3
Dave Krieg (32-1984, 27-1985), career 81.5
Randall Cunningham (34-1998, 30-1990), career 81.5
Danny White (29-1983, 28-1980), career 81.7
Ken Anderson (29-1981), career 81.9
Matt Hasselbeck (28-2007), career 82.4

Those are all those below the average QBR of 82.5
The average QBR of any season a QB threw 27+ TD was 87.7

OMG the resemblance is un-Candy. Pun intended.

Knee jerk reaction say Kitchens must go.

The turnstile carousel coaching of Cleveland Browns, inherently leads you to a preconceived notion of what you think should happen.

Too many penalties, potential not being taken advantage of.

We need a leader

#hireurban

We have a different definition of "bust."

My thoughts, We will not catch the Ravens even if we win out which isn't remotely going to happen. We will be lucky if Cinci doesn't somehow beat us twice. I love the Baker Mayfield from last year, but the current Baker should ride pine until his head is straight. I didn't like Freddie for HC, but I wanted to give him a fair shot and lately even defended him because he's a rookie HC. That's over and I hope they fire him sooner rather than later.

Wilks and Monken should be gone after the season, clean slate for next year. Give Dorsey another attempt to get a coach that he will live or die with. All this talent, the fans deserve more. Our scrubs played harder than the divas and 'talent'.

You might have been onto something until you said this. "Lack of work ethic?" Smh

And...

We're all focused on Baker, but....

The Broncos scored 24 points with a quarterback who wasn't even on their roster until September.

In another thread, my predicted score was 20-0, Browns. I have no idea how we allowed Denver to score 24 points, one of the worst offenses in the NFL...led by a quarterback who had never thrown a pass in the NFL...yet here we are harping on Baker not being the guy.

Trust me, there are a lot bigger problems going on here than Baker Mayfield.

We dont blitz much. Bringing 4 isnt very creative and isnt going to stop anybody.

Denver has a noob QB and we didnt even try to rattle him. Unforgivable. Thats how you lose games.

This team is mismanaged on both sides of the ball.

Did you deck the Creeper?

Checking some breakdowns of the final offensive play this morning ... Landry ran it too deep, Baker hesitated (and he did look at OBJ but didn’t throw it) ... and Baker was way late, cuz Landry was open

are you saying Johnny Unitas was a bust??

I kept thinking this too: the ONE time I remember a double A gap blitz their QB folded like a cheap suit.

And we just never seemed to blitz/confuse him at all, at least not as much as OTHER teams do to US

I guess he is .. as well as Y. A. Tittle, Lamonica, Jaworski, Stabler, Theisman, Elway, Fouts, Tarkenton, Esaison, Danny White, Ken Anderson, Hadl, Brodie, Bradshaw, and the Browns' last Championship QB Frank Ryan.

I guess none of them ever won anything .. even the ones who are in the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

Looks like a live action Randy Marsh from South Park...

This guy looks beaten up, defeated and shell shocked. He should try concentrating on football and not commercials or media conflict.

Haha he does look like John Candy in Planes, Trains, and Automobiles

This blows my mind. Flacco was running for his life and got injured with this horrible OL, and we made the 1st timer look good.

It’s so confusing that we couldnt disrupt him, hurry him, and confuse him any more than we did. Their OL, which has been destroyed all year, was stonewalling our front 4

Don't get me wrong... There's a whole lot to be disappointed about with this team. But for me, this is tops. Our vaunted Dline couldn't rattle that QB playing behind that line!?

And then the safety trying to shoulder check a TE that has roughly a thousand pounds on him is unforgivable. 57 put on a poor tackling clinic as well.

I’m actually only really upset that Whitehead is still on the roster. After him threatening to kill fans and a reporter, talking about shooting, and using racial slurs the guy should have been cut last night.

The Browns day they are gong to handle this “internally” give me a break! No leadership, no structure, no discipline. We are a joke.

Yeah Adarius Thomas was not much better ... I’ve seen about enough of him on the field on defense as well

Possibilities

• Our upgraded D-line is putrid
• The Donks O-line really hates Flacco
• All of the above

Has Kitchens resigned yet?

Agreed. I didn't like the coaching changes at the time and feel the same now. How do we promote a RB coach to HC in half a season? Any examples out there? I like Freddie and really hope he (we) succeed. Can we go back...certainly we can.

J/C

- The team has quit on Kitchens, and this coaching staff. I said before that I was seeing signs of that in the tackling, and it continued even more so yesterday.

- Chubb is the best player on this team, and we do anything we can to take him out of the game in key moments.

- Baker stinks. I have been trying to get him the benefit of the doubt, but he misses over and over and over again open receivers. He has absolutely 0 touch on the ball. Every ball he throws is 100mph and 2 feet to high.

- The defense has been horrible. I cant recall ever seeing so many 50+ yard plays in a season.

- Our Oline stinks. Guys were getting mauled yesterday (and this isn't an excuse for Baker - he stinks too).

- Myles was a mouse yesterday. You wanna be DPOY, you make a play to win a game. He has not changed a single game this year if I can remember.

Outside of Chubb, there is not a single player on this team that has improved from last year. NOT A SINGLE PLAYER.

Last year Baker’s ball seemed to be more accurate and he seemed way more decisive. This year it’s the opposite

His confidence is shaken and he seems to be second guessing him himself on nearly every pass.

Part of the Browns culture. He should've been released immediately afterwards.

Also, why is he checking twitter account immediately after a huge loss and before he's even out of uniform? Chad Thomas. I'd cut him, too, for encouraging Whitehead. Total clown show.

j/c:

My turn!

I’m no longer dedicating 3hrs a week to watching this mess. I’ll DVR it and maybe FFW thru it if it sounds like it was a good game. The Browns ARE the easy team to beat. I said it last week. There is not a single game IMO left on the schedule that anyone can reasonably say we will beat.

Baker isn’t doing well but I think most of that is probably coaching. If Freddie is so piss poor at managing the game, why should I believe he’s any good at developing his QB?

Baker has zero chemistry with the skill players. The one guy who he did supposedly have chemistry with is Higgins, but Higgins barely sees the field. Why is that? I think it’s because of FK’s pompous ego. He clearly doesn’t like his decisions being questioned or having to explain himself. I think he’s not playing Higgins more out of spite, that if he were it would somehow undercut his authority.

It’s the same thing about the several weeks worth of questions about cleaning up the penalties. We find out third weekend that he called the Tuna for advice. That part I’m fine with. But I’m not fine with the apparent fact FK didn’t seriously address the issue until this last week!

4 down territory and Chubb isn’t in the game. Ridiculous. 2 and 3 pass plays without playaction. Barely any play action all game. And when we do start to get some success, we try some BS trick plays?

Are the cleats themselves a big issue? No. But they are indicative of a larger more serious issue.

It’s too late in the season for FK to get control over this team. They don’t respect his authority and they never did.

I am just so sick of the ineptitude, the missed tackles, the overthrown/underthrown passes, the ridiculous play calls, the ineffective pass rushes, seeing our star running back on the sideline in short yardage situations, the drops, the penalties, the poor coaching decisions, the off-field drama, the on-field lack of passion and execution, the mishandled clock management, the fluke turnovers, the helmet tosses and losses that have names that go down in history, the record setting awfulness, the fumbling, bumbling, stumbling and the whatever the hell it is this time that's going to ensure another loss and our perennial place at the bottom of the division and as the constant butt of a joke of an NFL team.

I sat screaming at the TV the entire game scaring my dog and irritating my wife, and by the end of the 1st quarter knew we were no better playing a 2-6 team than we were playing two undefeated teams. I am just so sick of it all and there's not an f-ing thing I or anyone here can do to stop it, and I have to wonder if there's anyone in the world capable of turning it around. So say we do fire Freddie, who in the hell wants to come to this $#!% show where we kill QBs and ruin coaching careers as they are mocked and laughed at or derided out of their chosen professions? They would either be fools or just another inept notch on the gun of career suicide.

This entire coaching staff is garbage, minus Mike Priefer. If it was me, I would hand the reigns over to him.

Baker is just a piece of the pie. JMO, but I've seen enough of Freddie. Gotta love the guy, but he's not a HC.

We'd have been better off keeping the coaching staff from last year completely intact. Williams, for any faults, was a superior HC to Freddie.

The talent is there. Someone needs to step up and lead them

j/c...

The Browns did something right...

He's free to go NOT tackle guys on another team. He SHOULD get a sit down with the league...

See ya Whitehead

Special Teams has been the only unit doing its job and doing it well.

j/c...

Which was our only "hole" going into this season if you asked the pundits.

His eyes were def on OBJ as the first read, why he went away from it is beyond me. But no one will ask him that

J/C

I watched over and over again as Den used Play Action to help Allen with our Def biting almost every time.

Yet, Freddie it seems doesn't believe in Play Action.

nope, we believe in shotguns and empty sets. putting Baker on an island and not using Chubb in the clutch

Inside the opponents 10 yard line!

It is absolutely maddening. Baker under center with Chubb behind him with playaction as an option and Chubb able to get rolling and see what's ahead...keeps the defense guessing.

Vs.

Empty shotgun sets and the defensive rolls over our O line.

Smartest guy on the field. The stubbornness and overall game management has not gotten any better.,,maybe worse. Clean up the penalties and turnovers and what have you got? The same pitiful coaching, planning and awareness.

J/C

one of the best backs in football, and we threw the ball 27 times by halftime.

only to watch said best back come to the sideline on key downs.

Yep. And yesterday we flipped the script and did it on the other side of the ball.

QB that has never thrown a ball in the NFL seeing LBs 7 yards behind the DL and not even moving. "Don't worry, we never blitz anyway... And here's proof!"

Uncanny.

My guess is that he's under pressure to make quick reads/passes. He ends up having time to keep watching OBJ - but let's face it, if he continues to wait for OBJ without looking for a different more immediately open receiver, Baker would be slammed as locking on to his primary. . . . the comment about the mechanics and patting the ball are just as much concerns as not throwing to OBJ who eventually gets half a yard on his man.

Jc

Ive read comments on twitter that thinks his primary is Hilliard (you can’t really tell based on that screen grab who he’s looking directly at) because Hilliard had chipped ALL day and that may have been our wrinkle to get him open quickly

1. OBJ actually gets 2 yards separation according to nextgen stats.

2. if OBJ has 1on1 coverage, you throw it everytime. There is no need to look elsewhere. That's why the frustrations. If he has 1-1 coverage, as the best player on the field, hes open. Throw it. Give him a chance.

3. If he throws it to OBJ, hes not patting the ball.

Our offense play count was literally 2:1. I think we outdid them in time of possession by close to a full quarter of football. Ridiculous. That and the plays coming in late... I don’t even think FK knows his own play book.

Plays coming in late is so aggravating. Baker gets to the line too often with less than 7 seconds to go ... no time to shift, motion, examine, etc ... it’s like we make it as tough as possible on him

Well to be fair, our TOP was going to be a lot higher because they were scoring on 75 yard plays left and right. lol

cant lose TOP if you let them score really really fast.

But whose playbook is it...Freddie's or Monken's? Is there some issue between FK and TM?

No, not at all. Certainly not EVERY player on that list was a bust, but I gave every player that met the statistical criteria for completeness. Some of them were HOF, but played in a different era.

What it does show is that:
a) single-season TD passes is a terrible metric to grade a QB
b) there are TONS of guys who put up big TD's once or twice and never again
c) a case could be made that a large majority of those guys were nothing more than average to below-average QBs for their career (as justified by career QBR)who just had one "magical" season
d) stating no QB who has ever thrown 27 TD's in a season has been a bust is completely factually wrong - unless you think Derek Anderson and Jake Plummer and Don Majkowski etc etc...

Right! And then we complain about Baker not being able to make his reads lol. It was the same crap we went through under Shurmur. McCoy and Weeden who have opposite skill sets had the exact same problems

See my last post. That's not what I said at all.

Guess I should have cherry picked my data to make a point instead of actually giving the entire historical context. My bad.

This is 100% spot on and why I keep saying Baker doesn't know what he's doing. He doesn't know how to play professional QB cerebrally.

THIS is my biggest pet peeve. It's exasperating, I talked about it in the "keys to the game".

Remember our first pre-season game? We came out in the "hurry-up" and drove straight down for a TD. I remember thinking "this is what you want to do with all this talent and a high-power offense... This is going to be fun to watch!"

We don't even run hurry-up when the clock is under two minutes! I would say we snap the ball at 2,1 or 0, 75% of the time.

he also doesn't understand what constitutes as open in the NFL..in college his receivers had miles of separation. Add in the fact he's probably afraid to throw anything even closely contested because he's a turnover machine, this is the result..one read qb with bad mechanics and zero touch ability. Whens the last time we've seen him drop a ball in over coverage?

At the beginning of the season when we lost I didn’t want to listen to anyone talk about the Browns in a negative light because I didn’t want what they said to be true.

After a couple losses I didn’t want to listen to what people said because I didn’t want it to be true.

Now I actively seek out negative information because it leaves me someone to blame.

I hate this team.

That's what I see as well. He has all but abandoned any effort to throw it deep. He's looking for all of the underneath stuff and when he throws it, he throws it 100 mph like he's afraid it's going to get picked. I don't know if it's pressure from early in the year, his pick numbers being up, I don't know what it is but something is in his head

I don't think that's the issue. He did that plenty last year.

Last year he wasn't asked to think. This year, as part of the evolution of a QB, he is. And he's failing at it.

He just doesn't know how to think the game first then execute after. He's completely confused and the lack of success has hurt his confidence. He's just winging it at this point.

I'm not sure what to make of it all. I don't know what this means for his long-term prospects.

This is especially true on critical downs or where there was confusion or something to fight about. I totally put this on Freddie because he's arguing and yelling like a HC should but he's not getting the next play in...

We lost a chance to get the ball back yesterday because we blew out last 2 timeouts on 3rd and 4th downs because we couldn't get the play in... so we just had to sit and watch them run out the clock.

Whitehead cut:

https://www.breitbart.com/sports/2019/11...MZ2M_s6ijAZ5CGk

I chalk that sort of thing up to Learning Curve.



When I take a step back and think about the things that are going wrong (most of which are getting listed in several threads at once on here), I see things that are inherently fixable, and things that are inherent to inexperience.

It mostly boils down to Freddie and Baker.
Freddie is making some head-scratcher decisions at times, but those will go away with experience.
Baker is NOT playing like we've seen him play, and it mostly seems to be because of his lack of experience and the learning cliff associated with being a Year 2 QB.

Taking those things into consideration, I could very easily see where this roster (it still isn't a team) could start to play really well if they just start making little bits of progress with the things they are not doing well.


Of particular note is the very dramatic decrease in penalties and other self-inflicted wounds that we've seen all season long. There was still the very weak roughing call on Richardson, but that's really the only killer I can think of.

Unfortunately, what still happened were those couple of big plays where lapses in judgement allowed them to just kill us. e.g. Lindsay's big run.... just before the snap, our DE shifted one gap inside, then Lindsay ended up running right through the gap our guy vacated, but NOBODY behind him came in to fill that gap. SOMEBODY freelanced and it cost us 7 points. This will sounds very Butch Davis, but other than those two or three big plays, we played them pretty well.

It's still a very painful & dejecting loss, and the season is absolutely over at this point, but there IS visible progress from these guys. They ARE working at it, but they just haven't got it all together, yet.

Has Kitchens ever developed a QB into a legit top 12 QB in his
Celebrated coaching career ?

Last year, I remember a specific endzone play. He had something like 2 slant routes coming from the left side, but Baker read the coverage and new he had to occupy the safety get one of the slant routes open. So he motioned the running back over to the other side of him to draw off the safety, snapped the ball, looked off towards the first route and then threw to the receiver on the second slant. Guys that broke down that play were drooling over what they saw, because Baker was doing Peyton Manning-level things in his rookie year. I also remember people saying during his draft interview that he was one of the most cerebral QBs in the Whiteboard sessions.

I don't think he's suddenly lost this ability. Something else is going on. I think getting the play-calls in with 7 seconds left on the play-clock could be a big part of it. When Freddy is trying to do HC things while also trying to get a play-call in, he probably has too much stuff on his plate.

Well, technically ... last year during the last 8 games, Baker was a top 12 QB for the most part.

the problem is we don’t know if thats because of Kitchens, Williams approach, Zampese’s creativity, etc

Great lead in to what I’m going to post. I’ve never played the position but I think i could argue that the success of a play has more to do with what happens before the snap than what occurs after. When the play comes in late and we’re not lined up until 4 seconds left, Baker has no time to read what he is seeing, compare that with what he should be looking for, and making adjustments accordingly. Instead, what he has to do is snap the ball then figure out what he’s seeing and how to adjust. No kidding he’s not confident in any of his throws, even the obvious open targets.

And for those criticizing him for not being able to make his 2nd and 3rd reads... so what? Eventually he has to get there, but why this need to make things more complicated than they have any need being? If you want your QB to get rid of the ball in 2.5 seconds, you don’t burden him with making 3 reads as the play progresses unless you’ve designed the routes to lead his eyes from one WR to the next. Much like artwork where good composition leads your eye from one element to the next.

Give Baker the tools and opportunity to diagnose the defense before the snap and I predict a marked improvement.

Made a poll just to see where everyone stands on where the "issues" lay:

Blame Poll

I still believe Baker has the physical tools and brains to be a very good QB for us for a long time. Something is obviously wrong this year whether it's the scheme or coaching. I think with the proper coaching and scheme he will be fine. We saw it last year.

So what? I just watched a QB, who half the country said needed to change positions, go through his reads and progressions and stomp the undefeated patriots.

Apparently it ain’t too complicated for a guy who everyone was roasting about...what was it again? That wonderlic score?

So what does it say about bakers inability to read defenses that a guy people on this board was calling stupid is playing better than baker?

I’m sick of the excuses people give this dude. If baker mayfield can only be good when he has an imaginary chip on his shoulder and EVERYTHING has to be perfect, then we drafted the wrong dude.

Every week it’s a new excuse.

I think its a combination of baker not being that good but also I think coaching matters. I don't want to judge baker fully until he has competent coaching..zampese got the best out of baker..

We also saw the rookie from Arizona have a good game against SF D who torched Baker...

Baker should be benched and see if he can progress... playing him is not helping.

Baker can't diagnose the D, not even when the flaws are staring at him, that's the biggest problem.

One question I think is reasonable to ask is if Lamar were on the Browns and Mayfield on the Ravens, do you think each would be having the same success or lack of success?

You know I'm the last guy to make excuses for Baker, but coaching matters. Organizations matter.

Not to take anything away from Lamar but do you think Harbaugh is doing anything other than running a scheme that plays to his strengths? Can you say Freddie is setting Baker up for success equivalent to what Harbaugh, Kingsbury, or even what Reich is doing in Indy with Brissett?

Baker does need to get better. I don’t think anyone disagrees with that. And if Freddie was a quality coach I’d put more responsibility on Baker.

Plus, we actually win games when we run the one read offense he’s being criticized of being limited to. So yeah, so what? Baker stands a better chance of improving to a QB who can make more than one read when you play to his strengths and build from there not subject him to inconsistent and inappropriate play calling and a team culture that lacks any structure.

I don't think benching Baker is a bad idea but it has to be done under the guise of an injury.

Each and every week I have watched, waiting to see the Browns clean up some of the things that have been killing them.... I'm also pretty fair (I think) in grading on the curve based on who we have been playing and the schedule up until this week was BRUTAL... which is why I had a particular interest in this week.. so this week.

We started with a nice defensive series, so I wanted to see how our first possession went:
1. Holding call on a punt that was fair caught. Cost us 10 yards in field position, a recurring problem.
2. Chubb ran great on his first couple touches, as he has all year.
3. Landry drops a slant pass that could have gone for nice yardage.
4. Mayfield fails to see the LB hidden behind the 2OL/2DL who are bunched up on the right side of the line and throws what could have been an INT.

Possession over... stupid penalty, dropped ball, poor read... same crap that has happened week in and week out... it took a few more possessions before we got to the head scratching play call, but everybody knew it was coming.

This "team" just feels like it has ZERO veteran leadership... it's just a collection of talent and egos and NOBODY is stepping up to demand accountability from others, probably because NOBODY is playing at a level worthy of being the loudest voice.. well Chubb probably is but unfortunately he's the quietest guy in the room by nature...

Somebody needs to be THAT GUY who tells Baker to keep his mouth shut at least until he's playing better... to tell Landry and OBJ that when you are on a team that was supposed to be a contender and you are 2-5.. nobody gives a flying rats arse what kind of statement you want to make with your SHOES...

And I guess Dorsey is the only guy who could pull Freddie in and ask him why on some of the plays that could have potentially saved our season, that were running plays.. Chubb was standing beside him. WTF bro?

who gets the joy of injuring him though

I said during game, I was hoping for a hang nail on his throwing hand. If Gilbert comes in and has a better grasp of the offense then we know we have an issue with baker. By all accounts, gilbert seemed to look more confident in where to go with the ball than baker in preseason. Some guys it just clicks for. I think nothing is clicking for anyone because coaching is failing.. players do what they are coached to do.. if i hear freddie say "I don't coach penalties" one more time... Someone needs to ask "What do you coach?"

From what I've seen, Lamar Jackson is being asked to do about the exact same thing he was asked to do last year and he has gotten better at it which is why he's having more success...

To you and Rish:

Honestly I don’t know.

Why? Because I highly doubt Lamar would have much influence on who the HC is in 2019 like baker did. Because there’s little doubt in my mind that one if the big reasons kitchens is here is because baker advocated for it.

So that’s why I can’t start history at this point. My views are big picture that goes back to the 2018 draft class and the start of last season.

Devil, I have to really push back, because baker was ABSOLUTELY reading defenses last season. He went through his progressions as if he’s been in the league for 5 years. Excl brought up an excellent example a few post ago about that.

I understand and have brought it up all season that we aren’t running the same scheme and such. So a lot of it has to do with Freddie, and Dorsey for even hiring the guy in the first place.

The other aspect, however, is something that while it’s more speculation, it becomes more a glaring question that needs to be answered:

How much work did baker put into his game during the offseason compared to Lamar?

Remember, Lamar went 6-1, won the division and got a home playoff game his rookie season. And yet browns fans - which most certainly included me - but damn near the entire country anointed baker as the second coming of farve or something, even though he just LOST to Lamar at the end of the season.

Baker takes blame simply for buying into his own hype. National commercial spots, GQ magazine, etc etc.

The guy who ACTUALLY deserved the hype took the entire offseason to work on his game.

That’s individual work ethic right there. Can’t blame the organization for baker not having self discipline. You just can’t. Yes, the scheme is bad, and yes Freddie blows.

But at the end of the day, there have been too many times where baker had the chance to take over the game, put his team in his back and go out and get the W.

He couldn’t do it against the titans. He couldn’t do it against the rams. He couldn’t do it against Seattle, and he couldn’t do it against the 2-6 broncos.

These are grown men now. College is in the rear view mirror. And yet mayfield is not acting like the leader of this football team. He’s acting like he’s owed something for finishing 3rd in the division.

Organizations can’t teach character, no matter how great or terrible it might be.

funny the two qb's with the biggest ego's in draft (mayfield/rosen) have turned out to be the worst of the QB's in year two.

I honestly don't know how much either put into their game... I think it's telling though that between Baker, Juice, OBJ, etc, that at no point did they work TOGETHER.. that's the part that shows. I won't speculate on who might have wanted to and who didn't but it never happened.

I also don't buy into the fact that doing a few photo shoots and commercials is an indicator.. those take a couple days worth of time and a ton of young players do them...

Maybe Baker bought into his own hype and just assumed because they were all buddies that it would just come together..

Maybe OBJ was sulking and feeling butt hurt by the NYGs and didn't want to participate..

I have no idea but lack of cohesion and being on the same page is pretty obvious to anybody watching.

And that’s why I said it’s speculation.

But there are plenty of unsolved questions that need to be answered. Because I said it before that even with Lamar improving as a passer, baker mayfield should be the best QB of the draft based on passing ability.

And yet he regressed. And let me clear, I’m HOPING to the stars that the issue is as simple as Freddie kitchens sucking and needs to be fired. I really hope that’s about 95% of the issue, because if it is, then long term baker will prove me right when I said during the offseason he will win us 3 titles.

But it ain’t looking too good right now.

As we are speculating... Baker's skillset is going to live or die on reading defense and accuracy (which is about mechanics)... if he wants to get back on the right track, those are the two things he needs to focus on.. not getting bulky and strong.. read defenses, hit the target from 30 yards.. that's it.

I'm there too. Right now, there's a big ego problem with pretty much all of our big three, in Dorsey, Kitchens and Baker. It seems like all of them just sat back and figured they could do no wrong after how we ended last season.

Of the three though, Kitchens has never been in this role, and it doesn't help that he's got the OC role on top of that. At least Baker and Dorsey have shown they can get the job done in their current capacity, in the past. That's why I'm sort of hoping like you that if they get rid of Kitchens that maybe everything else will sort itself out. But there also need to be a good deal of pride-swallowing and getting back to work from the other two.

Get rid of Freddie, and the entire roster eat a full plate of humble pie during the offseason.

And we have a decent shot at getting back on track.

I think it’s fair to assume Baker didn’t put int the work he should have. I also think it’s fair and probably more right than we’ll ever know that many of the key players just assumed it would all come together. But that again comes down to Freddie not doing his job. He’s the one who told Baker to get away from football for a couple months. Baker clearly doesn’t know what it takes to be a professional QB, and that’s ok. I wouldn’t expect him to at such an early juncture. Instead of trying to be his friend, Freddie should have sat him down, shown him the compliments of others like Drew Brees and said “here’s what you need to do to be successful in the NFL”.

Baker is smarter than he’s playing. But he’s also bought in to whatever Freddie was selling and he can’t figure out why things aren’t turning out how he was told they would. He needs to mature, he needs to be humbled, but how the hell can that happen when his HC needs the same things himself?

Past Freddie though, our veterans have provided 0 leadership. I feel like Landry was that guy last year, but now he has his buddie OBJ, he’s more concerned with shoes than he is being a leader. I’m probably wrong, but i can’t recall a game last year where Jarvis got involved with any of that diva behavior.

It really sucks bro that as I type this, I’m starting to feel sorry for a guy like Chubb. That same feeling we all had when JoeT was here and you wanted him to experience a good season. This team doesn’t deserve a guy like Chubb but I garuntee the man will go out and perform every week anyway

I think this hasnt been discussed, or i have missed it. But this is a HUGE point. Jarvis was the leader last year, whether he wanted to be or not. We saw it on camera, we saw it with Haley going to jarvis regarding Higgins, and we saw it on the field. When Jarvis got "juiced" and made a big play, or a big block - the team then played behind him.

My brother said when OBJ came along that he thought it woudl be bad for Jarvis. OBJ is the outspoken one, hes the the "flash" and the better talent. So he said "this could backfire and push Jarvis aside as a leader as all the focus will be on OBJ and Jarvis will be playing catch up to him".

I definately see that as have happened. Last year we rallied with Jarvis - with Bless em shirts and his leadership. This year, hes worried about wearing gold cleats to look good with OBJ.

I hope they both realize, if they dont win - dont matter how many 1 handers they grab, the fame will go away.

umm Darnold

Josh Allen not exactly having a great year either.

Has a decent Def. and hasn't played anyone yet other than NE who he threw 3 picks too.

It wasn’t just Zampese, Al Saunders has a big play in that too. Zampese leaned on Saunders long time league experience. Man I wish we could get Al Saunders back too

this is not true..while i'm sure saunders helped some...Zampese knew that offense inside and out and was the QB coach. His dad helped create the Air Coryell. Zampese worked directly with Mike Martz and was instrumental in the "greatest show on turf" I think people are underestimating how good an offensive mind Zampese was..He's same one that made Jon Kitna and Andy Dalton look serviceable and helped Palmer and the bengals have one of the best passing attacks in the nfl at the time. Wylie even mentioned the outburst last year was because of Zampese

He's also the guy that got himself fired for (allegedly) single-handedly driving the Bengals O into the ground.

Good point .. OBJ is our new ALPHA male and it simply isn’t working. He’s taken that swag away from Baker and Landry, and now they’re just followers. Not how they excel.

Absolutely.

In the opposite situation Mayfield would be excelling while Lamar would be struggling and half the fanbase would be talking about how we need top move him to RB and draft a real QB next year.

As much as Mahomes went to the perfect situation in Kansas City, Lamar went to the perfect situation in Baltimore. Coaching matters.

Maybe we don't need to jump off the deep end?



Maybe the team isn't as good as was hyped?

Maybe it needs time to grow and season.



I am not jumping of the bridge until next year......join me.

My internet went down, so I missed some of the game

-Hubbard stinks, that whole right side stinks...

-Wyatt Teller looked lost, and got away with a couple of holds...Have no idea how he let Von Miller go by clean...Saw him blocking later in the game, with his head turned the opposite way...looked in over his head.

-Schobert/Whitehead missed something in their zones and let a big pass get behind Scho.

-Whitehead blows, glad he's gone...sad thing is, I think Eric Murray is just as bad (though he didn't play because of injury)

-Greedy had a couple of bad penalties, specially on his hold on special teams when we didn't even return it.

-I don't trust a single secondary player to make a game saving tackle...and it showed true once again multiple times.

-Mack Wilson's rampant nature is nice to see...His energy is great

-Chad Thomas got held early in the game, not called

-Demetrius Harris body control sucks

-I hope RSJ is ok, knee injury didnt look good (ditto to vernon)

--OBJ and Landry look like MoMass and Robiskie in this offense.

-There has to be something deeper going on with Higgins not playing much or at all...Not sure how he isn't seeing the field, when he and Baker have always had a great connection.

-Hodge (claimed off waivers) played more than Higgins, Taylor, and Ratley (Dorsey drafted Ratley, and traded a later pick for Taywan Taylor)

-Calloway had a huge grab and run...did a great job holding onto the ball when being grabbed two different directions.

-Hilliard pass blocking got better, was was one of the worst blocking backs early in the season.

-Chubb had nowhere to go most of the day....ran hard regardless.

-Remember this monsterous front 4? extremely overrated...

-Speaking of front 4...Wilkes must somehow think they are superb, as we rushed mainly 4 all evening...and they didn't do a whole lot.

-I see why we run a lot of 2 LB sets....Adarius Taylor blows...Man we miss Kirksey.

-We gave a QB (his first ever start) very vanilla D and barely pressured him...We allowed him to make plays...sad and that should not be allowed. The game is all about mismatches, and we NEVER find the good part of a mismatch.

-Not going to harp on Myles as he's clearly our best D player...But like I noted before he much more of a Simeon Rice type.

-Baker surely still plays and seems confused...His pocket awareness was a little better in this one. I still have a hard time figuring out why we haven't been more proactive in getting him in position/plays to be more successful...As when he is successful, the team is....very easy....But idk why coaches make this harder thna it has to be.

-Empty backfield...unless its 3rd and a mile...please stop

-Routes run in a bundle location...Not working (I think that's a product of Monken, not sure) These are not being executed right, its bringing in more defenders and interceptions...Seems to be confusing Baker as well (His WR options are bunched up, and being covered by multiple defenders in a small area...He is pausing as its too combobulated.

-Kitchens blunders...This guy isn't learning either.

-Still too many penalties, and several were declined as well.

-Lindsay was the most dynamic player on the field....How come we can't ever have that?

This team is just sad...Cardinals and Raiders are a lot better than us, let that sink in.

We say this every year.

At some point the Browns just need to start winning. It's not up to the fan base to figure it out either.

I wouldn't mind them moving actually. It would release me from the torment I experience every year. I've only enjoyed watching the Browns once this year...against Baltimore. I enjoyed the week after leading up to San Fran and even predicted a victory. It's been craptastic before and since.

I don't enjoy my Sundays. I know that's a me problem but I just don't know how to turn the love I have for this team off. To me it represents my family and where my parents come from. I wish I didn't care so much. It's stupid to care so much about an entity that doesn't care about you but again, it's what it represents for me and the emotions behind that.

I still remember me and my dad and our family friend from Cleveland at our home in Georgia standing a foot from our 60 inch big screen tube TV cheering our butts off to Clay Matthews iintercepting Kelly in '89. Great childhood memory. I can't turn it off. Man, I hate this team.

The guys they hire to come here and the players they select to play here, they don't give two craps about me or the city of Cleveland or what this team represents to so many.

Man, I hate this team.

Well said. It's so painful.

Sunday has become synonymous with watching my dad be angry and sad. That's no way to live.

I feel you man...Sunday's are full of misery continually...it weighs heavily on all of us...and makes us all frustrated...I think we would all be elated if our team finished 8-8 every year...least it would be worthy to watch the team play...But for us fans, asking for .500 ball is unfortunately too much.

“Man, I hate this team.”
Said by every fan of every team in every sport at one point or another since the dawn of time.

and they kept showing it over and over again in replays.
He wasn't held, he was outright HUGGED.

Postgame thought:

The island receded toward the horizon, as a cold current slowly parted the battered survivor and the safety of dry land. Clinging desperately to the driftwood, his mind drifted back to that August, and the travel brochure that had seduced his vacation money from him.

He shook his head slowly with a sad, wry grin and said to himself: "Just my luck. I should have known..."

That's when he felt something bump his leg.

That is beautiful, lol!

Who knew the ferry to the Island was the USS Indianapolis??


"Farewell and adieu...."

Oh man, that was great.........

.... . The promised cruise ship turned out to be a leaky garbage scow...

Starring Tom Hanks as DiamDawg.

haha

Please, everyone- I did not write this little vignette to poke fun at Our Boy Diam. It really was just a creative writing exercise, instead of ranting about this team's horrible play.

This goes out directly to Diam: Bud, I hope you get a chuckle from this along with me. It is not intended to poke fun at you in any way. It just popped into my head as a gallows humor joke, and I decided to share it with the kennel.

I do think we'll get there, but I was never as certain as lots of fans. Pro teams have a lot of moving parts, and a lot has to go right for it to work. I was concerned about the coaching turnover all along. Not surprised that this year has some of these features. I just expected things to start turning around right about now. Las Sun didn't fill me with a lot of hope.

And that the island was located in the Bermuda Triangle ......

and the captain was The Skipper

...and MKC as Mary Ann. Ummm....no!

Hey I gave Diam Tom Hanks. That's pretty damn good.

j/c:

WE do have that. We just don't use them correctly due to coaching and scheme.

OBJ is the most dynamic player on the field.

Chubb is probably the hardest working and consistent player on the field

Jarvis is probably the feistiest player on the field.

Myles is probably the most athletically and physically gifted player on the field.

We have HOF talent levels on this team. AT LEAST 4. We just cant use them correctly because our scheme, coaching, and discipline blow.

Shows you how much ratings matter sometimes. I saw joe miss tackles and let up big plays all day biting on play action left and right.

I'm not going to say they are wrong but some of their biggest plays were stupid shallow crossing routes and runs right up the middle.. isn't that where Schobert is generally supposed to be?

Im pretty sure they see he had a lot of tackles and figure "he must have played good!"

Instead of realizing that one tackle was when he bit HARD on PA, and had to drag the guy down from behind 16 yards downfield. But hey, it counts as a tackle.

That’s not how any of this works!

I know they break it down play by play a lot more than just looking at some stats but we gave up a few big plays and most of them seemed to be in the middle of the field... like I said, I'm not going to say they were wrong but......

I have a thought.
Having lost to Denver's Allen and will lose to Buffalo's Allen,the Browns should petition the Nfl for a schedule change.Dump one of the remaining opponents and play Carolina's Allen.
The Browns would get another well deserved,embarrassing entry into the hall of shame,having lost to 3 QBs named Allen in the same season.

Has there ever been a time when three NFL QB’s with the same last name were starting simultaneously?

I don't remember the details, but those rankings try to take into account where he makes his plays (at/before LoS vs way behind him). I did notice Shobert biting hard and getting beat twice towards the end of the game.

j/c...

This was an IDIOTIC play (or lack thereof) by our defense. They go Wildcat in that situation and we don’t contain the edge

Defense laid down and gave up from the start of the game.

It was obvious from the opening whistle.

No heart.

The only person I thought that looked like they gave up was Whitehead and his lame attempt at tackling.. turned out he was playing with a broken hand. About 90 yards of their offense and 10 points came as a result of his whiffed tackles.

Who on defense played well?

Schobert.

But that is usually the case.

I guess that means we won't resign him.

That's what I was thinking.

J/c

Someone said Greedy played well (or has played well) and I actually think he hasn’t ... seems soft and oft-targeted

Wilson, Ogunjobi, Richardson, Garrett...

Williams has made some nice tackles. He's a rookie corner, we should expect inconsistency.

Some advanced metrics on Greedy Williams....

https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/greedy-williams/

J/C .....He's a rookie, who has played 4 games, and who had a 4 week injury in between those games. I'd give him a while before we start breaking everything down so intently. The kid's still learning.