Nice idea, I'll have to give it some thought. Haven't really followed the draft this year. Who is the best, absolute best player available who may draftable to make a splash on a Browns team.
I'm sorry, I wasn't going to say but, dang, the whole time since I read your post I cannot! get Travis Etienne's (Rb Clemson), name out of my mind.
I don't know if he is going to be a good player, but, just from memory, I'll bet he checks all the boxes.
If it were pick #2, and by some Grace of God, the best Tight end Pitts from Florida, I believe, were available, in the 2nd???? I'm BANGING ON THAT TABLE, LIKE A MO.
Still can't get Travis Etiennes' name out of my mind,
Can't say I'd bang the table for anyone at 26, but guys who might be there and/or in range for a slight trade up:
Kwity Paye: DE Azeez Ojulari: DE JOK: LBer Christian Barmore: DT
Depending on medical checks, if Caleb Farley falls due to his back injury, I might pound it gently for him. Not sure how to "medically clear" someone with the concussion history of Jaelen Phillips.
I guess technically that gets me up to 6 guys I'd be fine with (kind of, anyway), but little to no banging.
At twenty-six I expect the team to do the adult thing, the reasonable thing and take the best CB available, whoever that might be. In round two I would bang the table for Jay Tufele - DT, USC. In round three I would bang it again for Cameron Sample- DE, Tulane.
Since I have no idea of which players will or won't be there at #26, I have no idea of the choices I have to bang the table for.
Since I have no idea how far up we would have to move or what the cost for moving up would be for any given player, I don't have enough information as to who I should bang the table for.
You are a scout. This has nothing to do with the round.
If you see a player you believe in. You bang the table.
You explain why. Why you like the guy as a player.
And why do you believe in him for the Browns.
Every draft year. I see a guy. I really like. Not knowing where the guy will be drafted. Most of the guys go in first two rounds.
I like Surtain, Horn and Farley. They all look like great corners.
However, the player that I would bang the table for is Koramoah. I love this guys game.
He may be there. He may not. He could be there and the Browns want another guy.
I remember when the Browns traded down with Atlanta. The Falcons selected Julio Jones. We ended up with Phil Taylor. I was disgusted. I wanted Jones over Green.
You are a scout. This has nothing to do with the round.
If you see a player you believe in. You bang the table.
You explain why. Why you like the guy as a player.
And why do you believe in him for the Browns.
Every draft year. I see a guy. I really like. Not knowing where the guy will be drafted. Most of the guys go in first two rounds.
I like Surtain, Horn and Farley. They all look like great corners.
However, the player that I would bang the table for is Koramoah. I love this guys game.
He may be there. He may not. He could be there and the Browns want another guy.
I remember when the Browns traded down with Atlanta. The Falcons selected Julio Jones. We ended up with Phil Taylor. I was disgusted. I wanted Jones over Green.
In 2019 I loved Devon White.
You were vague with the request and we answered with our interpretation.
My answer was based on
Pounding on the table today or next week or round 1 for Jealon Darden (for example) doesn't make much sense. What can be done now: mentioning him and skillset match, fighting to get him in to talk to, providing research and tape to Berry, Stefanski, AVP, and O'Shea, etc...
When the draft starts and we start getting to the point where he's top 5-10 on our board is when to start banging the table. Otherwise it is just noise.
I had Rousseau or Collins, McNeill, and Darden on my list.
Rosseau: He doesn't have much tape, but he was spectacular. Had he not opted out and had similar 2020 numbers as 2019, he'd likely be a top 5 pick (well maybe not with the way the QB race is looking). Because of opting out, minimal tape, and some opportunities for grown, he'll drop out of the top 5 into likely the teens to mid 20s.
Collins: I think I was the first on the board to mention this guy back in October or November. Physical freak. Can play OLB or DE. Can defend the run, rush the passer, and cover - and can do all well.
McNeill: The best run stuffer DT in the draft. Still a bit raw though, and needs some growth as a pass rusher.
Darden: Waterbug. Fast and incredibly shifty. Immediately transforms our return game, and I think Stefanski/AVP could design some spectacular plays to leverage his abilities
"Bang the table" is scout phrase. When a team is building there Board.
Scouts bring their work. Some scouts are positional. Some cover regions. They build a book of notes on players. Some observations. Some interviews with coaches.
They meet with the director of scouting. The GM maybe in attendance. They go over their reports.
Scouts or others with a strong opinion on a player will bang the table for someone.
If I were a scout, I'd do what I posted. Those are the 4 guys I'd like to us draft most (well 3 of the 4 unless we pick up another 1st this year) and would be the ones I banged the table for.
I heard about a LB from Ohio State the Browns are interested in for the 3rd round Pete Werner. I don't know much about him maybe a Buckeyes fan on the board knows something about him.
He may well slide past #26, but I highly doubt he's there at our pick in the 2nd round. I think that once Barmore is off the board, he will follow suit VERY quickly. I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger on him.
If we go through the draft without adding anyone on defense, I'm pretty sure that's how I'll be feeling.
Oweh is the player I'll bang the table for. People complain about the lack of sacks, but it's ridiculously overblown. Teams roll their QBs away from him. He faced a bunch of RPO teams (and does well crashing down on those inside RPO runs.) He hit the QB's arm in the 4th quarter of the Nebraska game causing an interception, which didn't count as a sack, but was more impactful than a standard sack. It's not like he was facing teams doing seven step drops all game. He didn't get to just hunt QBs with his opponents being forced into a ton of have to throw situations like some other edges got to benefit from. Penn State's offense was pretty awful for the first half of their season (new OC and injuries.)
He's only a sophomore and didn't even play football until his junior year of high school. His technique considering that is pretty amazing. His measurables are impressive (~8th out of 1338 DEs since 1987 by RAS.) He would seem to fit the speed, power, and quickness profile that Berry mentioned when talking about Takk McKinley. I think he'd be a great fit flying off the edge from the wide 9 spot. When (perhaps if) he develops an inside counter, watch out. Considering where he is in his development, I don't see any reason to think that he shouldn't figure one out. It's hard to imagine teams being able to slide protection towards both Myles and an Oweh.
I heard about a LB from Ohio State the Browns are interested in for the 3rd round Pete Werner. I don't know much about him maybe a Buckeyes fan on the board knows something about him.
Taken from wwwnfldraftdatabse.com:
Pete Werner, LB, Ohio State A part of the most talented linebacker unit in all of college football, Pete Werner possesses the type of all around skill set that could offer him the opportunity to occupy a variety of roles in an NFL defense. Playing SAM backer for the Buckeyes as a junior, Werner was pressed with a ton of responsibilities in pass coverage. Oftentimes he was tasked with playing overhang and out on slot receivers, seeing both man and zone reps. There is also a clear transition for Werner as a tight end eraser on the next level with his ability to match up appropriately with his combination of size and ath... Preview Analysis provided by NFL Draft Bible on SI
The last time I banged the table over a Browns draft pick I almost broke my hand...immediately after we choose Brandon Weeden with our 1st pick that year.
The last time I banged the table over a Browns draft pick I almost broke my hand...immediately after we choose Brandon Weeden with our 1st pick that year.
Go to your room and don't you dare come back out until May 2nd.
He may well slide past #26, but I highly doubt he's there at our pick in the 2nd round. I think that once Barmore is off the board, he will follow suit VERY quickly. I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger on him.
To Trade up ahead of the Bengals for Kyle Pitts, TE Florida
and I Bang the Table to trade up for the next pick on the clock for Travis Etienne, Rb, Clemson.
and that is my entire 7 round draft. 2 players.
BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG!! Now Get it done!
(Do they want to win or not, it's about Touchdowns, Touchdowns.)
Sorry to burst your bubble but RB is NOT a Need
Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa, .. you don't draft to need, you draft to Strength!
That's the kind of thinking that's resulted in so many championships, since 1964. (Does he know Chubb and Hunt only played in <7 of 16, maybe 18, games, quick guess, games where they both took the field, in 2020?)
The last time I banged the table over a Browns draft pick I almost broke my hand...immediately after we choose Brandon Weeden with our 1st pick that year.
I liked the Brandon Weeden pick, (He did well at times, many things people forget).
I loved the Braylon Edwards pick.
One time I really got frustrated was about mid-early season, seeing Charlie Frye is the starting qb of an NFL team, and has no chance to move an offense in the 4th quarter, and realizing the team isn't moving to find, anything else.
Weeden was not on my target...lol but after the draft in early June on a golf vacation at Myrtle Beach - We were two so we golfed with two others - one a Grad student at OK state. He saw my head cover and started telling me how we got a good one and we will be happy about him.
Of course I started getting stoked that maybe we finally got our guy...So sad... smh lol
I would like to say - we are picking at 26, I don't think we will move up but I'm on the record - WE WILL HAVE A STUD WAITING FOR US TO PICK THEM. I cannot wait.
I guess after the Pro Day. He can go sidelines to sidelines be the spy on Lamar...get deep in the middle on passing plays. Blitzing the Pass. Possibly the best Defensive player in this draft. Cause he plays LB he could drop. If he does he is the Banger!
When the season was over and I first started to look at the draft. He was the guy that I looked at. I didn't know a thing about the draft or the players. He was mocked to us in a early mock draft.
So, I pulled his tape. He is a monster.
Since that time I don't see a chance he is there at 26.
He does have some character red flags, but yeah, even if he got past Miami at 18, we'd have to go up to 21 for someone like Parsons (at best). That's assuming Washington, Chicago and Indy are focusing on their offense.
If you as an organization want to watch Pitts. TE, Florida, go to the bengals and Etienne, RB, Clemson, go to the Steelers, and have to play against one of them 4 times a season, for the next 7-10 years, Then that's Your Mistake!
Shifting around a shuffled deck of also rans at linebacker and defensive back!
I told you to trade up and get these two difference makers, and that is all you need for the entire draft!
Do you want to win or not! BANG! the BANGING! TABLE!
( Couldn't recognize Weeden, Pssh! your ! situation, living in the past), ... ((Looking back in 4 years from now)) GO MAKE THE TRADE!
You do understand we signed the top free agent TE Hooper last year? We also drafted a TE high in Bryant. Let alone we have Njoku who is a first round TE.
So maybe we would not trade up for a TE.
Just trade up?
The up guy has to want to trade.
We can not stop the Steelers from selecting a running back no matter who it is.
We have running backs. And taking a runner in the first round is rarely considered best practice.
I'm going to Bang the table, to tell you Zach Wilson sucks.
Espn tried to tease the advert. break that the Jets could decide if the future is with Sam Darnold or Zach Wilson, Qb, Byu.
Now listen, if the NY Jets, or even the Tbay Buccaneers, or any of the 31 NFL teams, waste a 1st round pick on a player like Zach Wilson, (or Zack), then; the whole integrity of the NFL as a league takes a hit.
You understand there is a difference where someone plays football, right? There is a difference if someone hits 8 under par on a PGA golf course or if it's on a Putt Putt course at the family game center.
Zack Wilson, may stand tall, and he makes, "he makes all the right throws" .
Understand. Steve Kerr, hall of fame,-i'll gues, NBA coach, skinny white, blonde haired, basketball player of the 1980's Chicago Bulls, played on the team with Micheal Jordan.
Now, Michael Jordan, arguably one of the best basketball players to ever play in the NBA would be a choice to build a roster around, but!
I'll bet, I could find, Steve Kerr, could stand tall in a shirt, in a Jersey if I took the photo, and I know he could sink a 3 point shot, just as well as Michael Jordan could, he could even hit a half court shot just as well as Michael Jordan could, I'm saying even better, ... I'm saying Steve Kerr could make all the throws.
But if the NFL NY Jets, want to pretend, you can take football player, out of a school who plays 2nd tier games for 4 years, and a guy who barely makes outstanding performances, and plays in bowl games; Sure, Sure, if Zach Wilson wants, to be a 1st round Qb, then he's got to play at a first round Qb football school, of which there are plenty! And then there are a 2nd level of more schools, And then there are schools like UCF, Cinncinnati, and the Mac and schools like that.
And then for a 4th level there are bottom feeders schools in good conferences like Kentucky U. Football, or the Indiana Hoosiers, now
After 4 levels of football schools, (1 being the Ohio States, Michigans, Notre Dame, USC's and Alabama, Clemson, Auburn, Florida, FSU what not,)
Then you've got the North Carollina, Syracuse, Penn State, Iowa, traditional football program schools, Pac 10 generic, and Washington.
Then, 3rd level you've got the hopeful upstart, try to be type shools, like the TCU's the Texas A+M's USf, UCF's Stephen F Austin, former big12, or east coast schools who'll play and lose to better football programs, but at least a traditionally historic football program.
Then 4th level, if you have the Mac schools, the All America, Sun Belt schools, where when the game you play, for 4 years is based upon what kind of opponent lines up on the other side of the scrimmage line.
That, it is not impossible, for Butte, or North Dakota, or Houston, or BYU or Baylor, to play a good year, or have an anomaly of an undefeated season or something like that, but.
If an NFL team is going to select a future QB, or Future bigtime player from college football, it matters what school, what football program that player played in. It matters what competition of defense a Qb faced each week, and what competition of the opposing offense that they faced each week.
It matters what the history of the school they ended up playing football at was. What is the history of the football program.
You do understand we signed the top free agent TE Hooper last year? We also drafted a TE high in Bryant. Let alone we have Njoku who is a first round TE.
So maybe we would not trade up for a TE.
Just trade up?
The up guy has to want to trade.
We can not stop the Steelers from selecting a running back no matter who it is.
We have running backs. And taking a runner in the first round is rarely considered best practice.
Don't come at me with those arguments. ^ I knew those arguments before I made my point. ( It can be reasoned it would take the entire 7 rounds string of picks to come up with the two players I listed, so I'm accepting of getting "only" those 2 players in this draft.)
I made my point. Etienne! and Pitts!
I made the argument, they can "Choose----------------" NOT to listen. but then will have to live with that choice.
( I'm not going to Bang the Table, for a dime a dozen defender in a league that doesn't let peoplehit anymore.)
QBs have been coming from weird schools for a long time Wentz is from ND State. Daniel JOnes is from Duke.. Josh Allen is from Wyoming. lamar Jackson's out of louisville... Mahomes is out of Texas Tech which has always been a bottom feeder in the Big 12...
The character issues is dealing with a fight that got ugly in 2018...that is quite a while ago and I am a firm believer that young men mature.
We would definitely have to trade up - possibly as high as 15 with the Patriots. I am saying he is a piece of the puzzle that would improve so many things on our Defense. He would have the same effect as Keuchley except he is bigger and faster.
He fits our Defense like a glove and is the key answer to so many things. I big time variable in pressuring the QB. The answer to covering TEs. The answer to playing Lamar Jackson and other running QBs. Not only do they not get away from him but he would hurt them with clean hits when he tackles them.
He would put our defense on another level a Championship level. Well worth our 26th pick as well as our 2022 1st round pick - that would be #32
"If an NFL team is going to select a future QB, or Future bigtime player from college football, it matters what school, what football program that player played in."
Hmmm - Steve Young, Kurt Warner, Phil Simms, Terry Bradshaw, Big Ben, et al say otherwise.
"If an NFL team is going to select a future QB, or Future bigtime player from college football, it matters what school, what football program that player played in."
Hmmm - Steve Young, Kurt Warner, Phil Simms, Terry Bradshaw, Big Ben, et al say otherwise.
And Steve Young just happened to go the same school as Wilson.
I'll also counter argue his asinine comments. Of the first level schools he mentioned (Ohio States, Michigans, Notre Dame, USC's and Alabama, Clemson, Auburn, Florida, FSU), name the really good NFL QBs drafted in the last 20 years from those schools. It is really easy. 20 years, 9 schools...180 years of football and:
Carson Palmer DeShaun Watson Cam Newton
That's the whole list. Go ahead and add Tom Brady though that was 21 years ago.
If you were a Browns scout what player would you bang the table for?
Be realistic.
My guy is JOK.
I love football players who know the game and how to play it.
JOK can do it all. He can cover a wideout. He can rush the passer. He can tackle. He can play from deep to front.
Super instinctive smart player.
Jeremiah Owusu Kiramoa, LB Notre Dame, (JOK).
Well the number of Lb's who can do it all is, (all of them), they all think they can, it's the position.
LB's that really change the field when they are on it, are going to stand out and be so rare, they have little to no chance of going undrafted until pick 26.
Relistically it would take a trade up to 12-15th pick at lowest, range or, if not, then the player just isn't that much more than average.
I Feel, if a player is just a "good" player, at Linebacker, that there is a better decision to make, (most likely, most years,) among BPA, (best player available), than ending up with a rotational Linebacker no better than all your other rotational linebackers while using pick #26, your only 1st round pick for that year on him.
The NFL, is a scoring offense league, defense is necessary, but average players on defense, are just about all of them, and unless you can get, like one of the top 10 first round picks, your defensive player isn't going to be special enough, to be a real factor that wins games in the fall because he's on your team.
And The point is for all of you to decide one player you are passionate about to suggest the Browns draft, I've given you Two, and one to stay away from.
The part I quoted is the original post in this thread. It's interesting that many have not put forth their own view on a future player but rather have chosen to ...
As much as offense rules this league... defense tends to be the thing that puts everything over the top. TB had a better defense than KC. New England beat the Rams because of Defense.
Seattle handled the Broncos because of Defense. We've had one truly offense driven Super Bowl in the last Decade really and that was NE and Philly.
You still need a good to great defense to win in this league.
Jeremaiah is Day 1 starter material... not a rotational guy.
I'm also going to elaborate, it appears that the number 1 thing that they're looking for on D right now are guys who are versatile. Guys who can cover and play the run. Guys who are smart enough to make reads and adjust themselves.
That Joker was the guy on the Notre Dame Defense whose roles changed depending on formation. And be able to be smart enough to do that without getting beat. He's totally a guy who would fit well in this Defense. They prefer DBs right now because of how much range you can get out of DBs. You don't need powerhouse lbers in the D because the intent is to get the most of a rush out of your front 4.
If I don't believe the linebacker, is better than the Browns current crop, then it'd be a waste of resources except to build depth. It would be different if the Browns linebackers were all aging, maybe 1, 1 of them are. Day 1 starter doesn't mean that much to me, anyone and everyone every year is supposed to be, if a first round pick. But a day 1 game changer, that's what you could be giving up, just to address team need over BPA, but Bpa, bpa bpa! is the best way, especially, if your team is pretty set all around, (A rare year the Browns actually are.)
So I say Best Player Avail, should be the choice, even,,, if it's a quarterback. Yikes!
It Should be! But it won't be! but don't have to take a just a little above average player just because he plays linebacker, over, a better player, specifically on offense.
I think need is a part of the formula on most teams draft boards. I'm not sure how much but it's certainly a part of it. I hate to even ask you this but I'm going to go out on a limb here anyway.
If a QB or LT are the best pure player on the board at #26, do you think we would spend that pick on a QB or a LT? I don't. I think we have a group of positions that will certainly be considered as priorities which will receive at least some favorability on our draft board. I do think some of those positions include DE, DT, CB and LB'er.
My top 2 guys that are possibly available at #26 or within reasonable trade up position are JOK and Greg Newsome Cb Northwestern.
My top guy? Patrick Surtain but no way we trade away what it would take to move up that high. My 2nd guy would be Micah Parsons (if his intangibles check out).
I am going to try and be realistic about who might be there at 26, I saw this guy play kinda by accident and man he jumped off the screen. It is DE/ Edge Carlos Basham, week 1 against Clemson he gave their OT Carman fits all game. Also saw him against VATech and gave Darrishaw a migraine. At 6’4 and about 280 he is very physical and would be a huge compliment to Myles. He is very good against the run. I also like he has 3 years of production and played in the senior bowl and had great reviews. Yup I pound the table for DAWGS who don’t opt out and live on reputation and win the underwear olympics. Give me Boogie at 26. I believe we take edge as it is clearly pricey to get good ones in FA. I like Jevon Holland in the 2nd, has solid size at 6’1 and 200 lbs and can play CB and Safety. MJD on the NFL network thinks he is the best defensive player in the draft. This may be the guy we give up Our 4th to move down a few spots to get him.
I'm pounding the table for Nico Collins as well. If we pass on him in the 3rd, I'm throwing the table across the room.
This pretty much sums it up:
On the field, Collins is a big-play threat vertically down the field that pairs very good vertical speed with excellent ball skills. There’s little question upon a deep dive of Collins’ tape that he was not done any favors by the Wolverines' passing game during his tenure with the team—his college quarterbacks failed to really take advantage of the mismatch he presents on the boundary and the Wolverines’ team identity wasn’t rooted in feeding their receivers the football. All that does is make Collins a major breakout candidate and someone I expect will be a much better professional player than a collegiate one. Collins has overwhelming size and the second gear needed to consistently stack defensive backs; projecting him into a vertical passing offense would make the most sense in trying to find an ideal role. Collins isn’t the most well-rounded wide receiver and because of that he may take some time to fully flesh out the rest of the game, but he has a trump card and translatable traits that should carve him an immediate role in the NFL.
Dude showed up 15 pounds light at his pro day after opting-out of last season. Very impressive speed and agility.
STRENGTHS: Intriguing height, weight, speed athlete…agile foot quickness and powerful strides, making his vertical speed deceptive…clean, uniform releases and doesn’t tip his path prematurely…coordinated at the top of routes…above average high-pointer with fluid adjustments on the ball mid-air…quick to secure and turn upfield after the catch…averaged almost 20 yards per catch in 2019…has a feel for defenders, using his body as a shield on slants and comebacks…physical over the middle with the play toughness to match defenders.
WEAKNESSES: Inconsistent sink/spacing mid-route on the first and second levels…better after-the-catch speed than route speed…too easily squeezed off his route path…inconsistent success rate on 50-50 balls…displays power after the catch, but not elusive (only 26.9% of his college receiving yardage came after the catch)…guilty of extending to push off, drawing attention from officials…usually reliable hands, but will have some drops (seven career drops)…highly inconsistent blocker — looks dominant on some plays and disinterested on others…moderate production with only one career 100-yard receiving game…didn’t produce any tape in 2020, electing to remain opted out to stay healthy (“I just didn’t want to get injured or something bad happen”).
SUMMARY: A two-year starter at Michigan, Collins lined up both inside and outside in offensive coordinator Josh Gattis’ pro spread scheme. He never reached 40 catches in a season with unimpressive production, but the Wolverines’ inconsistent quarterback play limited his statistical output. Collins is a plus athlete for his size with the foot quickness and body control to win above the rim. Though he shows flashes of a playmaker, he must consistently play up to his size and improve on tight-window throws. Overall, Collins isn’t a sudden or energetic player who will consistently separate underneath, but he is an impressive height, weight, speed prospect with the smooth routes and dependability to push for an NFL starting role (N’Keal Harry style player).
I feel like most of his "weaknesses" are very coach-able, and while he may show up a little raw, it won't take him long to acclimate. He presents as an excellent target for a QB like Baker. His accuracy doesn't require great separation during the route, and once he unloads, I'm not sure there would be a bigger target... 6'5" with a 79" wingspan... and more than enough "lift" to climb the ladder. That's a pretty big window for a QB whose only remaining scar from 2019 is losing a little confidence in the size of the window. In 2020, Baker reigned things in a bit for the sake of cutting down turnover-prone throws. Imagine him throwing deep balls with the same confidence he did in 2018? The simple physics here aren't hard to grasp.
Lastly...
Grooming another big-play WR gives us a huge amount of flexibility moving forward. 2022 hands us a $31 million cap hit for Landry and Beckham -- and both will turn 30 that season. I don't expect that both will remain, possibly neither, unless they're willing to rework their contracts. Having an affordable WR that checks as many boxes as Collins opens up a lot more possibilities going forward as either role (Landry or Beckham) is much easier to fill at a much cheaper price. It would seem to be wiser to cultivate more talent sooner, than to wait and see how things shake out with Beckham and Landry in 2022.
I wouldn't hesitate to package one of our 4th round picks to move up in the 3rd and grab Collins... I don't think he'll last 'til #90.
WR is simply a dime a dozen position if there is one. Every draft class has possible WR studs in it for the top 70 picks. We have some weaknesses still and it just is not in the WR position.
WR is a satellite position not a position that stirs the drink.
A LB. 1. JOK 2. Zaven Collins or 3. Jamin Davis. Not trading up, take which ever one falls to us in that order. Any one of them vastly improves speed and athleticism at the position. We've added a starting CB, and we have Greedy returning. We've added an all star Safety and have Delphit returning. Using the first round on the secondary seems a luxury. I am not sold on any DE that is going to be available. We need a play maker and speed at the LB slot alongside Phillips.
If Nico Collins is there at the top of round 3 - I'd definitely be happy to trade up for him. Brugler has him rated as the 13th WR and a 3rd round pick. He seems to be the tell, deep, vertical threat that I think this offense needs.
Agreed and I've posted before that I don't think we should move up in the 1st round. Let the draft come to us. Many of the players that will be there at 26 are very similar and all can help us. Now if we want to use one of our #3's to move up in the 2nd to get a player we like I have no problem with that. Again, it's JMO
NOo that we have our DE/DT spots filled and DB situation set... We NEED a dominant LB in this draft maybe like Dylan Moses. The rest will be to backfill with BPA.
I wish there was someone who was surefire and we would trade up in the draft to get.
LB is by far our biggest hole on the team.
WR check QB check RB check TE check OL check DL check LB big question marks
PK - meh kinda check P check LS check
ST players - need to fill the kitty with hungry rookies
2022 FA list is huge and we can't retain them all. the notable list:
Richardson Clowney Ward Mayfield Chubb McKinley Billings Walker Jr Juke Higgins Hodge Stewart Parkey Malcom Smith Jojo Natson Lee Allen Harrison Teller Gillian Johnson
In my make up of the team you don't need that Calvin Johnson to win a championship...Atlanta know that oh so well.
my theory has always been you need 5 solid WRs who have good hands and run good routes and are willing to block for each other as well as the run game.
Weather one of them is a 6'5" stud is irrelevant - if you ever ever build your team around a WR...you are building a losing team.
Our 2016 draft would refute the "dime a dozen" point. We drafted 4 WR's in that draft. Corey Coleman, Ricardo Louis, Jordan Payton and Rashard Higgins.
In my make up of the team you don't need that Calvin Johnson to win a championship...Atlanta know that oh so well.
my theory has always been you need 5 solid WRs who have good hands and run good routes and are willing to block for each other as well as the run game.
Weather one of them is a 6'5" stud is irrelevant - if you ever ever build your team around a WR...you are building a losing team.
jmho always has been
I gotcha, not disagreeing. It's apples and oranges though, I'm talking about the moderate investment of a 3rd round pick.
Actually, your point about building around WR is part of my point in drafting Collins. On paper, with the contracts of our top two WRs, it would almost appear as though we have built around WR. That portion of cap can't be allocated to two WRs, going forward.
Draft a guy who has speed and size, who's stock is low because he's raw and played for a team that can't orchestrate a passing attack, plug him into a strong WR room so he can grow for a year.
Makes next year's situation much more tenable when dealing with the contracts of Landry and Beckham.
I think you're more in line with my thinking here. Over the next couple of years we're going to have far more FA's whose contracts will end than we can afford to keep. I think a smart FO, which we do have, will keep their eyes focused on not only this year, but a year or two down the road.
As such they will already have in mind who they are going to try to retain and who they feel they will have to move in from. In that situation you can't base your entire draft on the 2021 season alone. You must plan it with 2022 and 2023 in mind.
Short sighted FO's never manage to build a dynasty. Only those with long term plans and vision can accomplish that. We need developmental players in the pipeline to be ready and to fill in some of our roster spots in the future. Hopefully our FO doesn't lose sight of that as it seems many of our fans have. After all, that's the reason those in our FO make the big bucks instead of posting on a message board.
It appears on the surface that DT is a position this year that does not have first round talent. Barmore maybe? More likely near the bottom of the first.
For this year and as a fit for the defense that Woods wants to run.
I keep coming back to Koramoah. If there was more to see on Jamin Davis. He is another guy that could really help this defense.
Pretty sure I "banged the table" for Nixon in that other thread. It may be a little early to grab him at #26, but I don't think he'll last until our pick in the 2nd. We could probably trade back to the early 2nd and still get him, and snag ourselves another pick in the process.
Our 2016 draft would refute the "dime a dozen" point. We drafted 4 WR's in that draft. Corey Coleman, Ricardo Louis, Jordan Payton and Rashard Higgins.
One out of four remain with the team.
As usual you are off the mark...good hands run good routes and willing to block..turned out to be Higgins and he is the rule of dime a dozen. The others just were poor picks and it was a weak WR class for us to invest in 4 WRs....ergo what was our record - 0-16?
Now here is my drop the mike position of dime a dozen:
2020 - 17 WRs taken in rounds 1-3. 2019 - 13 WRs " 2018 - 10 WRs " 2017 - 14 WRs " 2016 - 9 WRs taken weak class and the first taken was Coleman 2015 - 14 WRs taken in rounds 1-3
Don't you get it...Dime a Dozen....you bring up us in our futility years investing in 4 WRs in the worst year to invest in WRs...it is not the rule but yet the exception of incompetence which earned us 0-16.
Then you factor in the team doing the evaluation. Each team has it's own perception of need and scheme.
I do not believe in hard, fast rules.
You can devalue a position say safety. Then there is a HOF potential safety. Do you take a another position player who is ranked lower but is pass rusher or corner?
Linebackers and running backs are now being devalued.
I'm going to bang the table for a CB...the best CB at #26. We are still very thin at CB.
At DE,DT & LB we have solid starters and depth...I know it's possibly just for THIS year...I get that. But it's there.
I think we still need a starting caliber CB - and better / decent depth at CB - to really make a run for THIS year.
Consider DE, DT & LB in THIS draft? Absolutely do so. The priority though should be to come out of the draft (and remaining FA) with that other starter-level guy and decent depth at CB.
I'm going to bang the table for a CB...the best CB at #26. We are still very thin at CB.
At DE,DT & LB we have solid starters and depth...I know it's possibly just for THIS year...I get that. But it's there.
I think we still need a starting caliber CB - and better / decent depth at CB - to really make a run for THIS year.
Consider DE, DT & LB in THIS draft? Absolutely do so. The priority though should be to come out of the draft (and remaining FA) with that other starter-level guy and decent depth at CB.
I agree. Right now we have Ward, Hill, and questions. If we add a guy who can be that starter quality outside CB, then we aren't screwed if Greedy can't come back, or if anyone gets hurt.
I'm going to bang the table for a CB...the best CB at #26. We are still very thin at CB.
At DE,DT & LB we have solid starters and depth...I know it's possibly just for THIS year...I get that. But it's there.
I think we still need a starting caliber CB - and better / decent depth at CB - to really make a run for THIS year.
Consider DE, DT & LB in THIS draft? Absolutely do so. The priority though should be to come out of the draft (and remaining FA) with that other starter-level guy and decent depth at CB.
I agree. Right now we have Ward, Hill, and questions. If we add a guy who can be that starter quality outside CB, then we aren't screwed if Greedy can't come back, or if anyone gets hurt.
+2. The single biggest (and easiest) way to derail this entire season is to have problems at CB. We've already seen that Ward has durability issues and Greedy is an absolute wild card at this point. Money Mitch is gone, he took more snaps at CB last year than anyone in the NFL. That role will be filled by committee, but who is the committee?
The very qualifications you state are needed to draft a WR is the proof that you don't find WR's that fit all of those qualifications are a dime a dozen.
I mean if you wish to get down to comparing numbers let's look at CB's
27 CB's were drafted in the 2020 draft
32 in the 2019 draft.
I think you get my point. We both know that quality CB's aren't a "dime a dozen".
I agree with the qualifications needed for a productive WR. I agree that you "can" find one later in the draft. But as with most positions the best are found early in the draft by a large percentage. If WR's were actually a dime a dozen teams wouldn't need to keep drafting them every year.
In the NFL the passing game is a large portion of the offense. As such you need quality contributors at every level. I agree with you that you shouldn't build your team around the WR position.
We're not as far apart on this as you may think. I just believe you somehow feel that the very qualities you state are needed in a good WR are more rare than you do.
WR is simply a dime a dozen position if there is one. Every draft class has possible WR studs in it for the top 70 picks. We have some weaknesses still and it just is not in the WR position.
WR is a satellite position not a position that stirs the drink.
you don't need that Calvin Johnson to win a championship...Atlanta know that oh so well.
In the year Two thousand and X, the Browns traded and surrendered the pick to the Atlanta falcons who used it on a WR, who went on to have a 13 year ish career, His name had a J in it.
And in all those years, I wouldn't give a dime now, for the dozen guys the Browns unsuccessfully hoped could fill that position for that one time of chosing to pass up the opportunity to get the WR, (because he wasn't heralded so highly, on draft day) Who was Matt Ryans #1 opton for 10 years, including their Super Bowl appearance.
So I guess, if a team is ok to lose because of Bad Wr's for a dozen years who aren't worth a dime, and watch Matt Ryan throw to the guy who could have been on the Browns.
Our 2016 draft would refute the "dime a dozen" point. We drafted 4 WR's in that draft. Corey Coleman, Ricardo Louis, Jordan Payton and Rashard Higgins.
One out of four remain with the team.
As usual you are off the mark...good hands run good routes and willing to block..turned out to be Higgins and he is the rule of dime a dozen. The others just were poor picks and it was a weak WR class for us to invest in 4 WRs....ergo what was our record - 0-16?
Now here is my drop the mike position of dime a dozen:
2020 - 17 WRs taken in rounds 1-3. 2019 - 13 WRs " 2018 - 10 WRs " 2017 - 14 WRs " 2016 - 9 WRs taken weak class and the first taken was Coleman 2015 - 14 WRs taken in rounds 1-3
Don't you get it...Dime a Dozen....you bring up us in our futility years investing in 4 WRs in the worst year to invest in WRs...it is not the rule but yet the exception of incompetence which earned us 0-16.
Your largest number is 17, in 96 overall picks for rounds 1-3. That's only 17, that means they are hard to come by.
And more WR's wash out, than DE's . Even Solomon Scott, and what not, who weren't drafted by the Browns had productive years at DE in the past.
Now, The Elite DE is difficult, the Average DE is a dime a dozen.
Actually neither are a dime a dozen, but you can do a lot more as a team with mid level DE's than mid level Wr's.
The Browns currently have more elite DE's 2 or 3 of, 1 to 2 necessary than elite WR's starters, 3 are necessary, and they have 2, maybe,
You can need more WR's you can never have too many good WR's.
Other DL / DE on the Browns Roster. Sheldon Day DT. Cameron Malveaux- possible improver
Curtis Weaver. De, ok thoses are 3rd stringer quality
the following are Better than that, so you'll have Myles Garret and Joe Jackson DE and Porter Gustin DE, and Jordan Elliott, DT,
All of which I would consider better than that description of 3rd stringer quality. Plus you have whomever the Browns can draft in Rounds 3-7 this year Plus you have whomever the Browns sign all this season during the season, and all of next year's free agency, and you have next years draft picks.
That's just not to "exaggerate" the perceived need to fit an agenda that someone wants the Browns to draft more DL/DE, this year
Who won't even get to see the field probably, until next year and not be any better, because it's a rotational quality value against replacement player.
They signed Vernon, and Richardson, and now Takk McKinley, and Malik Jackson, and Claiborne for last year, and Billings,
So, I'm saying the DL, are able to be found in the Free Agency, ( yesterday Clowney).
The Wr's, who can play, are just as hard if not Harder! to get in free agency.
And a lot of them, like in 2015-2016, were major headaches, (The Bridge car accident guy, and Josh Gordon, and the likes. )
Even if we say they Browns hit on Jarvis Landry and the huge price for OBJ, if they were hits, what about Duane Bess, or that guy I hate who never made a td on a drive he had a big catch, Wr's are real hard to come by, especially, if you want one who can help you win games.
Stalworth, and Stuckey, Robiskie, or the 6th+ rounder they drafted in 2016 ish with a V in his name, that didn't make the team 2nd year,
Bad WR's are a dime a dozen, and it's harder to win with bad Wr's than it is difficult to find decent Front 7 and get what you need from them.
Now. The elite, At pass rush, No that's real hard to come by,
The point is the Browns are not in position where it helps them to draft an average to bad Front 7 Def. player, in the top 30 picks this year.
(Good news for those who hate me saying that is, I think that's what the Browns are going to do.)
And Given Andrew Berry's propensity to get players on the Browns who come, (HALF OF WHOM) come from schools you've never hear of,
Like "Weaver State" or something, that's probably what they'll do with their first round pick.
Shame this year the draft is going to be in Cleveland, and whomever they are going to pick in the first round,
Is likely going to be a no name DL or LB from some off brand school who will career wise amount to Oneil Cousins' tenure with the Browns. (Or maybe the Kaluka Maiavia, at 26 overall, version)
Personally, I love Jaylen Waddle. Baker has a huge arm and we've never really had someone with the ability to take full advantage of it.
Waddle would compliment our QB, our running game and our strong pass blocking would help to open up the offense. Try and stack the box on Chubb when our pass blocking is excellent, Baker can throw deep with high accuracy and the chances of hanging with Waddle is pretty low.
I think he's the kind of player who is a genuine missing piece, and can make the entire offense better.
I won't ramble on but he ticks every box for me. I'm hoping he falls because seeing him projected to waste under Jared Goff or Daniel Jones, who don't have the skill set to get the most out of him, is insane. It'll just be John Ross going to Cinci all over again. Everyone wants a Tyreek Hill, but not everyone can use a Tyreek Hill. We could.
I'm hoping he drops a little further than expected - mid-to-late teens - and we could potentially move up.
There are some other names I love, but Waddle is just the guy for me. He he's a great fit, he helps save money when OBJ/Landry are due too much, and I believe in his talent.
Sadly, (can't fix stupid), I think the Browns are only going to give us a, less talented unproven, Sheldon Richardson replacement in the first round after creating the hole by releasing Sheldon Richardson,
Effectively wasting their first round opportunity.
Every year, there is at least one day before the draft wherein I look back fondly on some of the final years of the Browns before the move to Balt. and remember one draft
Where the Browns just about drafted DE, /today they are called Edge rushers, with every pick. Rob Burnett, era. (it didn't turn out bad)
There is no shame in devoting one entire years draft to just that one position if it's pass rusher!
If the Ravens want Jayson Oweh at 27, (and they do), then I want Jayson Oweh for the Browns at 26! He has the highest ceiling I believe, of all DE's and wouldn't hesitate to say he's a great pick for the pick even if #1 overall.
Sure there are 2 other offensive players I'd take but they'll be gone in the top 10, the Browns aren't going to be able to trade up to the top 10 by this point in time so, Fine staking the whole day 1 Thursday night on Jayson Oweh, he's going to be a fine player, and a difference maker at DE/edge for years to come.
Jayson Oweh, a team doesn't have a chance to add this to your team every day.
Another Special Athlete at Pass Rusher! Jump at the chance!
I usually don't have anything to do with your opinions...but I must say your choice of Oweh is interesting I just don't know if he has the Football behind him. If you note my signature has my pick of choice and that is Parsons. Well Oweh is bigger and faster than Parsons but I know Parsons is an excellent and natural football player. If that is true about Oweh than I have to agree with you.
6'5" 257 lbs. 4.36 40 time makes him an incredible athlete. I just hope he is a good football player. So got to be on your side on this one. If that is who we pick...Great.
“I got up at 5:30 a.m. and drove to Tampa to get there by 10:30 a.m.,” Sapp said. “I threw my hat and my lovely ROKA sunglasses . . . I’ve thrown my hat and my sunglasses, and at one point I’m sitting there like, ‘Do this,’ and he’s doing something else. To the point where another person said, ‘You’re not doing that,’ and he looked at both of us like, ‘What?’ So I tried it one more time, and then when he didn’t do it that time I picked up my glasses and my visor and I walked off. I didn’t say another word to anybody. I just left.”
Sapp believes that despite Barmore’s high ranking from draft analysts, they stand alone in that evaluation while those with the responsibility of actually making the draft picks likely view him much differently.
“I guarantee you they do,” Sapp said about draft analysts ranking Barmore higher than NFL front offices. “Because what you look at as a scout is the eye test on the tape. He was in the National Championship and I thought, ‘that the kid was a baller’ myself. I couldn’t wait to get up [to Tampa to work Barmore out.]”
And while Sapp argues that he wasn’t at the facility to coach Barmore up, but simply to help him round out parts of his game, the Hall of Famer wasn’t able to get through to the young defensive tackle despite his best efforts.
“I’m not coaching you up,” Sapp said of his time with Barmore. “I’m just watching what you’re doing to see if I can shave a little corner for you because I’ve watched the position. These eyes aren’t going to lie to me four feet down.”
Cook followed up Sapp’s statement with a question, does Barmore’s issue lie in the fact that he wasn’t willing to take his directions or that he couldn’t follow the directions? Sapp responded bluntly.
“Both,” Sapp said. “If I tell you to swing your left arm and you move your right, I’ve got a real issue – and that’s just one example. Trust me. For me to throw my visor and throw my $300 glasses, I’m telling you. I’m like, ‘Is there something wrong with me?'”
While Sapp has his opinions and is rarely shy to share them, he’s been wrong about prospects before.
“I don’t see it from this kid,” Sapp said about defensive end Myles Garrett years ago before his first overall selection in 2017. “I see the splash plays, everybody gets those. Where’s the game he took over? Where? Any defensive lineman who’s the No. 1 pick, you turn it up and you say, ‘There it is!’ This kid, no, I don’t. I’m a pretty plain and frank guy and I watch the tape and he disappears. I watch the tape and he absolutely disappears.”
So whether Sapp is right or wrong on his evaluation about Barmore – and he’s even put one whole year of talking on social media on the line behind it – he’s made his opinion of Barmore crystal clear: he isn’t close to a first-round pick in his eyes.
He didn't move the way you wanted for a couple reps and you threw your glasses like a child...hahaha. How dare he swing an arm you didn't want him to swing. Poor little Sappy-poo. Aww...
I'm more likely to take Sapp's word and understanding of the situation regardless of how much I like or dislike him as an individual. Dude was exceptional in the NFL for a 3 or 4 year spell.
“I got up at 5:30 a.m. and drove to Tampa to get there by 10:30 a.m.,” Sapp said. “I threw my hat and my lovely ROKA sunglasses . . . I’ve thrown my hat and my sunglasses, and at one point I’m sitting there like, ‘Do this,’ and he’s doing something else. To the point where another person said, ‘You’re not doing that,’ and he looked at both of us like, ‘What?’ So I tried it one more time, and then when he didn’t do it that time I picked up my glasses and my visor and I walked off. I didn’t say another word to anybody. I just left.”
Sapp believes that despite Barmore’s high ranking from draft analysts, they stand alone in that evaluation while those with the responsibility of actually making the draft picks likely view him much differently.
“I guarantee you they do,” Sapp said about draft analysts ranking Barmore higher than NFL front offices. “Because what you look at as a scout is the eye test on the tape. He was in the National Championship and I thought, ‘that the kid was a baller’ myself. I couldn’t wait to get up [to Tampa to work Barmore out.]”
And while Sapp argues that he wasn’t at the facility to coach Barmore up, but simply to help him round out parts of his game, the Hall of Famer wasn’t able to get through to the young defensive tackle despite his best efforts.
“I’m not coaching you up,” Sapp said of his time with Barmore. “I’m just watching what you’re doing to see if I can shave a little corner for you because I’ve watched the position. These eyes aren’t going to lie to me four feet down.”
Cook followed up Sapp’s statement with a question, does Barmore’s issue lie in the fact that he wasn’t willing to take his directions or that he couldn’t follow the directions? Sapp responded bluntly.
“Both,” Sapp said. “If I tell you to swing your left arm and you move your right, I’ve got a real issue – and that’s just one example. Trust me. For me to throw my visor and throw my $300 glasses, I’m telling you. I’m like, ‘Is there something wrong with me?'”
While Sapp has his opinions and is rarely shy to share them, he’s been wrong about prospects before.
“I don’t see it from this kid,” Sapp said about defensive end Myles Garrett years ago before his first overall selection in 2017. “I see the splash plays, everybody gets those. Where’s the game he took over? Where? Any defensive lineman who’s the No. 1 pick, you turn it up and you say, ‘There it is!’ This kid, no, I don’t. I’m a pretty plain and frank guy and I watch the tape and he disappears. I watch the tape and he absolutely disappears.”
So whether Sapp is right or wrong on his evaluation about Barmore – and he’s even put one whole year of talking on social media on the line behind it – he’s made his opinion of Barmore crystal clear: he isn’t close to a first-round pick in his eyes.
He didn't move the way you wanted for a couple reps and you threw your glasses like a child...hahaha. How dare he swing an arm you didn't want him to swing. Poor little Sappy-poo. Aww...
Why does it seem the Browns HATE OFFENSE SO MUCH!!!
Bang!!
We waited around for you to draft all of your, your, Delpit, and Phillips, and Greedy, and about a Dozen linebackers, and YEAR AFTER YEAR AFTER YEAR AFTER YEAR AFTER YEAR.
Act like Back end defenders are Gold, and then can't even get ones to help out,
They finally have maybe the best quarterback in the entire league, for the first time in 30 years, and what do they surround him with.
GUESS WHAT! They don't want to hear the Truth! And I don't want to hear their arguments!
(Ehh, we got the best two rb's in football,) (Ehh, he's got super star top two wrs' from free agency) ( Ehh he's got the best OL in 27 years of Browns OL's)
I DON'T CARE, BECAUSE TO A MAN!, To Every individual one of those players on offense, (pay attention..)
Each and every single one of them, had to wait on the Browns to screw around adding a ton of defensive players to replace more defensive players, before they finally got around,
Finally got around to having to fill a hole on the offense, .
And the team Still hasn't put offense first. And Except for Myles Garrett, what has it gotten you?
Browns. Where Offense has to play 3rd fiddle
after defense that plays bad option one and other defense that plays bad option two.
(Even if I'm wrong and they're right, they overdo it.)
Why does it seem the Browns HATE OFFENSE SO MUCH!!!
Bang!!
We waited around for you to draft all of your, your, Delpit, and Phillips, and Greedy, and about a Dozen linebackers, and YEAR AFTER YEAR AFTER YEAR AFTER YEAR AFTER YEAR.
Act like Back end defenders are Gold, and then can't even get ones to help out,
They finally have maybe the best quarterback in the entire league, for the first time in 30 years, and what do they surround him with.
GUESS WHAT! They don't want to hear the Truth! And I don't want to hear their arguments!
(Ehh, we got the best two rb's in football,) (Ehh, he's got super star top two wrs' from free agency) ( Ehh he's got the best OL in 27 years of Browns OL's)
I DON'T CARE, BECAUSE TO A MAN!, To Every individual one of those players on offense, (pay attention..)
Each and every single one of them, had to wait on the Browns to screw around adding a ton of defensive players to replace more defensive players, before they finally got around,
Finally got around to having to fill a hole on the offense, .
And the team Still hasn't put offense first. And Except for Myles Garrett, what has it gotten you?
Browns. Where Offense has to play 3rd fiddle
after defense that plays bad option one and other defense that plays bad option two.
(Even if I'm wrong and they're right, they overdo it.)
I don't believe what I just said could be true, wait a second "me" what are you saying, hold on, lets take a look at this, ...
What about Baker he was taken #1 overall? Ya but he had to wait around until a year after the team used the #1 overall on a Pass rusher on defense, so ya, it was a 2nd move to get Baker.
I feel like there is a growing tendency around here to overdraft DE/EDGE out of a feeling of need to get someone at the position.
ANY and EVERY draft eval has to begin with grades on the players as they pertain to what we are doing... if you have two players graded the same, but one doesn't do well with what we're doing, then you skip him. Given that, I think that a LOT of these DE's, like most of them, simply don't belong in CLE, and definitely not as a 1st round selection.
As for drafting offense... yes, we hate offense so much that we built it first.
We need only look back to previous years, we've seen this in the past, the ole' Wait and get a great guy in the 2nd-3rd round line of thinking.
Turn around and when your pick comes up, all of them are gone, and now you are stuck trying to over hype 4th and 5th round guys when you got zilch but a reach so far of the guys you picked in the first.
Reach for Db's chase your tail, like the 2005 draft.
