We’re on to Detroit.

Stefanski completely abandoned the run game after a great first drive. Until he stops being arrogant and gives up playcalling we will always fall short

Out everythinged. Literally. We played soft, undisciplined football today.

Its been a while since we competed like it was 2017.

Yea. I guess might as well do the post game.

Whole team didn’t show up today. Offensive line was very offensive to watch. Defense was doing anything but defending.

Stefanski and woods staring on the sidelines with looks of confusion on their faces, as if this wasn’t the gameplay they designed.

And I’m worried about Bakers health.

I really hope Detroit beats Pittsburgh. Cause if they’re winless playing us, they’ll probably get their 1st win.

Game over ?



Thought it was the 4th quarter .....

Since there are 12 minutes to play.

Can the OP please use their time machine to tell me if the Browns will get an interception so I can go get my
well drive up to Cleveland to get my
Free Arbys's curly fries tomorrow???

Play calling is atrocious. Both sides of the ball playing uninspired football

Game was over in the 3rd quarter.

It seemed like the only times we tried to throw deep, we targeted whomever the NFL interception king was guarding. And man, our linebackers are really the Achilles heel. They just make me so frustrated. We’re stuck with Baker, even though I don’t think he’ll ever be great. But we went 30 years without a QB, so we will have to pay him.

COULD WE EVER GET D'ERNEST JOHNSON A HELMET THE SAME COLOR AS OTHER PLAYERS,


It's like they forgot to put the clear coat on the paint job. it's the difference between primer and finished paint.

Any word on Baker's injury? CBS took the game away so I don't have a clue.

He got banged up but looks ok. They just smartly pulled him out the rest of the game

You don't need them...bad for your health.

Browns converted on 4th and 7 at midfield. A pass to number 11.

New England takes their 2nd time out.

DErnest Johnson drives 9 yards
Landry carries or screen cathes for about 2. first down at the 22.

He needs to be held accountable!

This wasn't the issue. We have a QB who cannot raise his level of play when everything isn't perfect around him. Has no idea where to go with the ball when the other team is coached up just a little bit. That interception completely changed the complexion of the game. What a huge decision the Browns have on him. Good rookie year, regression sophomore, good finish to third year, complete regression fourth year.

Stefanski is very average. Completely outcoached and outclassed by Belichek today. Did not have his team remotely ready to play.

Woods is awful again. Did we blitz once today? Against a rookie QB?

Defense was offensive.

What a disappointing effort after the Ravens lose. These guys talk about winning a championship? And put out this effort? Against a rookie QB? After their division leader lost?

A loss to the Lions is not out of the question.

SMH

It was so bad I don't even want to talk about it. Next.

I have to find a new team to root for after 40 years.

Another post game thought ...

If the Browns have to play from behind they are toast. That says a lot about your coach and quarterback.

I watched a lot of talking heads this past week. First time all season. I hate watching them when the Browns lose and although we've won a few, we haven't looked very good all season so I've been staying away. There were talking heads that were actually laughing at the thought that Baker Mayfield would play well without Nick Chubb. Like laughing it off as if it weren't possible. Let me say this again...talking heads are laughing at Baker Mayfield's ability to play quarterback at a high level. I really hoped Baker was going to come out and shut them up after last week. Looks like they got the last laugh.

What is the final score Kreskin,
do tthey make the xp or go for two after this Browns injury.

Food Police, is this politicus politicus .

What a disgrace. John Johnson was the worst guy on the defense today. Poor tackling, always going for the ball and letting the runner get five more yards. He was in position many times today and either got juked, or just a piss poor attempt at tackling. Soft coverage all day and piss poor tackling by the whole defensive backfield. No adjustment on defense at the half.

Belichik making a mockery of our "defense". Horrible gameplan on offense. We do not have a #1 receiver and it shows, no one gets open.

Not much else to say except , that this team can't play good two games in a row. They will not make the playoffs, and will struggle to go .500. It is sad. This team can suck the life out of you. A lot of money spent for nothing.

I don't know why Johnson gets a ton of hate on here when Anthony Walker has been by far the worst free agent signing of the off season. Guy is so average he's below average. Makes zero plays. Gets consistently dragged on tackles. Completely underwhelming.

Walker is hot garbage.

Anthony Walker and Mack Wilson had good games today.
I don't know what you were watching.

The second we lose the lead, we lose the game. Where is the heart? Where is the guts? We fall into a million pieces when the smallest, fixable thing happens. This Dr. Jekyll Mr. Hyde routine is not a playoff team.

Yes, this.

My thoughts are not permitted on this board !

was this supposed to be in purple?

We Know the
Ravens, Titans and Bills are going to be in the Playoffs.

the other spots 4 through 13 in the AFC are still in the little vacuum cleaner blowing the ping pong balls around the box of the lottery pick em type thing.
Where will the Browns finish.

I wanted to say, before Last week, that spot 13 was that the Colts were clearly out of the mix, but, they got back in it.

As Far as Tie Breaks go,
The Patriots, and their record against the AFC... are about #1 with their near flawless AFC record, I'd have to look again.

Right now forget the playoffs. I've been embarrassed many times before by this team but today had to be in the top 5. Living in Pats land and us coming in here and playing like this is atrocious. We did better against them when they had Tom Brady and we shad a lot less talent. TERRIBLE!!!!

I won't post what I am really thinking! Another disgusting effort by a team that won't/can't tackle...

heck no. Did you see the plays Walker was making today??

And Mack Wilson was all over the field!! That pass, for 25 yards to Hunter Henry was incomple. If you look at it.
and Mack Wlson, (even though the refs didn't see it and ruled it a catch)

and Mack Wilson, made up ground, Dove, Grabbed Hunter Henrys' arm, at the time the ball arrived, so that it was not pass intereference, and pulled Hunter Henry's arm away, so that HH could not grab the ball,
and Mack Wilson, continued his grip on HH's arm, through the process of the landing on the ground so that
dumb pats player never made the catch, he just pushed the ball into the ground.

This team plays like it is bipolar - hot and cold.

Terrible game.

The Browns offense faced a situation today, Where,
They needed the Big play passing game, that is BEYOND THE DINK AND DUNK,

They needed the Threat of deep passess completed today,
and they did not even attempt them.

so. Answer this Question??????????

Is it worse because Anthony Schwartz doesn't offer a deep passing threat, OR

Is it worse that the Browns Scheme doesn't even appear intent on even trying it????

j/c...

- The only player that looked like they wanted be there today was D'Ernest Johnson.

- Joe Woods ran a dime package with Patriots pinned back inside their own 1 yard line.

- Stefanski called the same garbage play that didn't work the first time on back-to-back plays for losses.

- Completely out-coached....again.

- We're back at the "Baker plays like garbage" in the Baker Mayfield Cycle.

- WRs cannot get separation.

- Landry looks completely disinterested. Just slides down after a catch. Already making business decision knowing he's gone next year.

- OL got beat like a drum.

- Myles Garrett got his token sack.

- Browns were 1-11 on 3rd downs and the Patriots were 7-9.

- Stefanski abandoned the run after the first drive and the Browns got down 14-7. He does this often.

- I've come to accept that Baker is an average to slightly above average QB capable of playing at elite level for a game here and there and then having absolute clunkers. We know who he is at this point. Browns have a tough decision to make.

- This is an 8-9 football team.

- The Browns fall on their face when there are expectations.

- #FreeD'Ernest

What everyone saw today was the difference between a team and organization that has a winning culture and one that does not. We can assemble all the talent we want but until we learn to play and win consistently it will always be like this.

The Browns started claiming they had changed the culture before ever actually sustaining a winning culture or overcoming real adversity.

UHhhg I turned the freaking
Lions steelers .

and the Loins miss the field goal.


OH my gosh, the Turds blew a 30 yard loss on a fumbele snap in OT.

and with under 5 minutes in OT, did the Lions intercept that?? almost, Ughh
looks like they will
likely end in a Tie!!

Lions and Browns will be a Tie 3 to 3

Just listen to a couple things online from the Pats, and it just seems like they were
like the Pats, were requiring much more intensity from their players in practice type situations.
Much more complicated, trickeration and schemes in the summertime.

If I’m Berry I go hard after Wilson or Rodgers in off season.. get a competent DC and upgrade the linebackers. Force stefanski to give up play calling or move on to a different HC. This whole give teams time to gel anymore is BS. You can turn it around quick with the right personnel. It’s obvious we don’t especially at the places that matter

j/c...

Shots fired!...

Zac Jackson
@AkronJackson
Myles Garrett: We didn't make the adjustments on the sideline or when we had time to.

https://twitter.com/AkronJackson/status/1460002136180330500

Wilson has a no trade clause in his contract - he's already stated if he's traded there's only a few cities he'd be willing to go to. As for Rodgers...I honestly don't think he's going anywhere either unless a can't miss opportunity presents itself. Matt Ryan might be available though - is he enough of an upgrade over Mayfield if at all?

Out everythinged when it was time to put up or shut up...The Browns simply swung their purses around and shut up. Typical. That is all.

embarrassment everywhere - on both sides of the ball. I can’t think of one player who played well. We literally could not stop them from going up and the the field, the entire game.

Oh, our punter had a good game, that’s the only one I can think of who didn’t play like crap. Good news is, no one else in our division won this week, so we have that.

More shots at the coaching and inability to make adjustments...

Not good.

There's going to be fracturing in the locker room next.

I honestly think Chase McLaughlin should of had more FG attempts ! Oh wait ! it was really bad that he couldn't !

This says a bunch. Hopelessly and clearly outreached and outplayed today. See Clowney?

Was in Columbus to see family. Drove home today, listening to the game on the radio. Started out promising. Then it went downhill.

Thankfully, I was finally able to drive out of radio coverage so I didn't have to listen anymore. Wife volunteered to find the game on Sat. radio. I politely explained "please, don't." Earlier though, she said "Arch, I can see your heart pumping in your neck veins." I just said "If you quit seeing that, grab the steering wheel."

Did make it home in record time though.

Listened to the post game pressers ... Garret is not happy ...HC admits it the way it was... I forced myself to watch the pressers... glad I did...

We were atrocious in every facet today. I honestly couldn’t believe that was our team on the field. The good news is we’ve reached the point where we expect to win. The bad news is we cant beat anybody good.

lmao ! in a sad way !

very frustrating how we are unable to adjust our game plan . Almost like the play calling doesn't even reflect the game we are watching

At minimum you have fire woods right now. Wade Phillips and Gregg Williams are out there. Greg would atleast have familiarity with some of the guys. But I don’t think you can wait anymore. The players are seeing the season slipping away and can’t hold their tongue anymore

To me, this seems to say it all, especially in regards to our two blowout losses so far this year (AZ/NE). Moreso than appearing "flat" or any one player's performance, the play calling on neither side of the ball seemed in tune or in time to what the situation was on the field. jmho.

More of the same.

I agree. Something has to be done about the D right now. I was a Joe Woods supporter but after today I mean My God, 3 drives for TD's over 90 yards. Who gives up drives like that. Our personnel is too good to play like that!!

Oh man lmao. I can see myself in that drivers seat and the exact same scenario coming to pass with my wife. Thanks for the vivid pic of what it feels like to be an angry Browns fan, it seriously made a dark day better.

Here's to better days.

Jc

Just remember, for all of y’all wanting to fire woods, that means we have to also fire Stefanski.

Woods isn’t calling the shots on offense. Told y’all in the other threads that Stefanski needs way for heat on him than a lot of you guys are giving right now.

Cause the last time I checked, the offense got the ball, as well. What did they do with it.

Nobody understands what's it like to be a Browns fan except another Browns fan; maybe a Lions fan does!

Bakers presser..from 1:13 t0 1:38...reminds me of the Freddie Kitchens hype and how they listened to the press and thinking they were going to be great...

Alex Van Pelt taking over play calling WOULD NOT! FIX!

Baker is hesitating on the quickest throw, hot read after the snap. Other league wide Qbs including dipwad in Cincinnati
could be used as examples to show,

what not hesitating looks like.

Baker hesitating on hot routes post snaps, as becoming a part of a (real) 2 minute type passing offense.
Has been a problem all year long,
and
Was becoming apparent today in the two plays just before, and the play Baker got injured on.

I can't know, if the coaches are demanding the hesitancy, if the coaches are causing fear of bad results that grow this hesitancy,
or if the hesitancy on the first read, or hesitancy on the hot quick throw after the snap is coming from Baker.

I can know, that we saw it, in red zones in previous games. This year. multiple games.

We also had our usual 3 drops or so that would have kept some drives going. Sadly, today they wouldn't have made a difference.

j/c...

Everyone getting their shots in at the coaching today...

Bring back OJ
I mean OBee J
This team is headed for NFL purgatory.
Sometimes good enough to make the playoffs,never good enough to win it all.
Too good to be in a position to draft that QB that will make them great.
Oh well we'll always have 2020.

We'll be better next year when no one expects us to win!!

There should not be.

Blort blort blort blort blort
Blort blort blort blort blort blort blort
Blort blort blort blort blort

[quote=Milk Man]j/c...

Everyone getting their shots in at the coaching today...

Two weeks ago also.

Fired from calling the offensive plays - sure. I floated that back in week 3 or 4 .... and/or a suggestion that he calls a half because he then gets too predictable.

Joe Woods I've been concerned about all year despite the stats. It's a real conundrum because we flat out BALL in some games and then look totally inept in others. The 3rd down plays we give up are bad. I don't know what the stats are but I have to believe that we are way down the league in that category. Joe isn't going anywhere soon - plenty of time to see what he can do. But we have a LOT of talent on the DL and in the secondary .... and we barely seemed to pressure their QB much today.

We have to be done with Joe Woods as a DC. Put him back with the DB's and find someone that knows how to use the talent we hav on Defense. How do we not blitz a rookie QB???

The Pats were messin with Garrett and Clowney which opened up the middle... that's how the Pat's ran on the Browns.... so put some players in the middle to stop the run / pass... Oh and tackle if ya in there !

We consistently have had the worst 3rd down and 4th down Defense the entire year. Good coaching would have shown improvement but it has not. The Offense has been a consistent Jekyll and Hyde. Something has to change tomorrow. Enough already.

Yawn - nobody cares Kevin. YOU have to realize YOUR limitations as a play caller and hand that job to Van Pelt. Tired of hearing the SAME TIRED excuses after EVERY loss. ENOUGH already. Be a LEADER and show this team YOU can do the right thing for this team. Otherwise pack your bags and get the hell out of town. We are tired of your act. Period.

Well that was embarrassing.

*Browns are a Jekyll and Hyde team, good one week and awful the next.
*Will have to go 7-0 or 6-1 to make the playoffs now.
*Have to get Chubb back. Our running game is just not the same without him!
*I agree about Joe Woods being done as DC.
*Garrett seemed to blame Stefanski and Woods after the game saying they never made adjustments to stop the Pat's offense.
*A season that was supposed to be great is looking like another disappointment.
*Hope the Browns can turn it around and put a string of good games together.
*Better not lose to, or tie, a winless Lions team at home next week!

GO BROWNS! WOOF, WOOF!

How the hell is Van Pelt going to help?

Today was just all around bad. The only thing consistent with this team is inconsistency.

This team does not play catchup football.

Is the local media being too nice?

The Lions should have beaten Baltimore and almost beat Pittsburgh. We should be their 1st victory.

Anyone else think Landry was playing hurt? Looked like every catch he made he went down immediately to avoid getting hit, he was a total non factor, guess he doesn't want to be here any more

I see some people saying “who replaces Woods if we fire him” … honestly, can it be worse? I’d give Wade Phillips a call. Guarantee we would be better with him.

To have Garret, Clowney, JOK, JJ3, Harrison, Ward, Delpit, Newsome and be this bad? Inexcusable

Keenum needs to start on Sunday. I don't care what Mayfield says, he could use the rest, and he seems to be pressing out there instead of letting the game come to him. If Mayfield plays and gets outplayed by Goff and the Browns lose...I don't even want to THINK about the potential meltdown that this board would have.

Random aside: Would it really be that far fetched if Berry wanted to choose his own QB? He didn't actually draft Mayfield, did he?

Wade Phillips would be good here with all this talent. Actually, Rex Ryan could turn this D around really quick but he comes with too much baggage and would want the HC job. We don't need more trouble By the way, we are 5-19 against Detroit lifetime. We always have had trouble beating them.

It would be STUPID to fire a defensive coordinator in these circumstances.

It shouldn't even be mentioned.

Well, it might be stupid to keep going the way we are. We won't win anything playing the way we've been on D.

Landry is hurt yet he is out there trying.

I mean I think it's really this simple.

We have an elite run-blocking OLine, and two super elite RB's in Chubb and Hunt. When they're healthy and get going early, and we can play either even or with the lead - we're really good. We can run clock to minimize the time our D is on the field giving up points. We can play-action pass off the running game, and as the opponents D gets into time, down and distances that call for being more aggressive with blitzing etc we screen and draw them for chunks. It's a beautiful concept when it works.

HOWEVER

If we ever have to play from behind, or we can't rely on Chubb/Hunt? We're completely screwed. We have neither the WR's nor the QB to throw ourselves all the way down the field and score points when we absolutely have to - especially when the opponent D knows we're throwing. With some of the injuries to our OLine, we've found our backups struggling in pass protection (as many do) in these obvious passing situations as well.

Our defense? We're completely and wholly reliant on our secondary being able to hold up and stop their passing early. If they can, then we unleash Garrett and our pass-rush. When they aren't shutting down the opposing teams passing game early - we start playing very soft, passive, rarely blitzing and basically allowing teams to methodically march down the field on us at will.

You can see how both on O or D - things can snowball in a hurry - both good and bad. It's why we can look so good against KC/LAC/Cincy (on O) or Minnesota/Cincy (on D) and so TERRIBLE in other games.

You average out the good games with the bad games - and you have a 500 team, with a league average QB. Exactly what we are.

(FWIW I think Arizona and New England will end up the two best teams we play all year once the season is done - so getting blown out by them won't be all that surprising for a 500 ball club)

Go back and watch the wildcard playoff game from last season . Pelt called that game cause stefanski had covid. Its was a balanced attack. When stefanski calld plsysays we only see balance if la few big plays get us a big or decent lead. If the game is close, stefanski seems to panic and get pass happy

Could we stop saying the Offensive line and running backs are automatically good, I mean, every game is it's own game.
Chubb nor Hunt did much to help them win today, they were both unable to play. The Offensive line gave up a sack on 4th down after a sack with a holding penalty on 3rd down.

I'm still so upset that the refs allowed that pass to Hunter Henry where a correct call would be that Mack Wilson successfully defended that pass.
It was a thing of beauty to see Mack Wilson, hustle, grab the receivers arm but only after the ball arrived so it wasn't pass intereference, and kept the receiver from closing his hands around the ball as they fell to the ground, causing the ball to hit the turf.

A 25 yard gain. You have to make players catch the ball otherwise perfect defense like that was. It's just fair play the ground cannot be the cause of a catch.

I think it's a little extreme to give up on Stefanski, but I do agree his play calling has been head scratching at times. I'm with others on thinking Van Pelt deserves a shot at taking the reigns there. Hopefully he can get a shot at that before the year is over so we can see where we stand next year at OC. Doubt it though.


Joe Woods can go fly a kite though. I'm sick of watching screens and mis directions working at will against his defense.

We'll be back next year, just gotta suffer through these last few games. Oh well.

Does Higgins still play for the Browns?

Not when we're in 13 personnel he doesn't.

My postgame thoughts? I am embarrassed as a Browns fan. All I saw was the first half. I had some stuff to do around the house and planned on doing it after the game. At halftime I figured that I should not be more invested in the game than the coaching staff, so I got going on what I needed to do.

I've seen this movie before. Wildly inaccurate passing, The D's inability to get off the field on 3rd down. Lackluster performance all around. Though the punter seemed to be doing well.

Absolutely no adjustments. The plays that worked against us earlier in the season continue to work against us. The plays the worked against us early in the game continue to work against us. Because we do not adjust.

We ran well on that first drive. Then go empty backfield on a lot of plays?

We've been outcoached a lot more often than we have not been.

As it's headed now, 8-9 is the best we can hope for.

That reminds me, was the play action pass available.

Baker still having issues looking off his first reads and not seeing wide open receivers. This interception was the worst decision throwing into double coverage and not seeing wide open receivers.
My guess was he was trying to get the 1st down and forcing the issue.

Ugh, wish I wouldn't have seen that. He just rarely wants to take the quick outlet, always wants to force it downfield.

Baker is not a "franchise" QB. He is a middle of the pack guy, who is able at times, when things are perfect, to look really good. He IMO, is going to become a back up like Colt McCoy. A guy who can come in and handle a game, but never be the guy who can lead the team. I like his work habits, his moxy, and his drive, but he just can't take the team on his back and win a game. If he is hurt, then sit him.

I'm not trying to suggest he was the problem today, that was all on the defense and the pitiful tackling. The soft coverage, and playing a defense where if the RB breaks the line of scrimmage, there is nobody there to stop him. And if they are there, they are grabbing the ball and being carried five yards down the field. Their RB would have four Browns defenders on him, and all of them are standing straight up and grabbing the ball. Nobody is going for the tackle. It was maddening.

This game reminded me of the Pittsburgh game, where the team just looked like they didn't really care. Something is amiss in the locker room. I always liked Stephanski, but it sure feels like he is losing his team.

After Baltimore pummels them two games in a row, things are going to get ugly. Time to draft a big fast WR, and a LB, that can tackle someone who isn't already five yards down field. And yes, rid this team of Joe Woods defensive strategy.

This is exactly how I see it, as well.

So many times we see Baker not taking easy completions

Baker is not a middle of the pack QB. He's bottom quartile, and I think that might actually be high.

Charles Robinson posted a good article today about the similarities with Baker and Mariota and the difficult decision he put the Titans in. It was pretty spot on.

On a somewhat related side note, I think the fan base is not getting it. I continue to read post after post about Stefanski abandoning the run, empty backfield, etc. If your quarterback cannot function with an empty backfield that's a problem.

Well, atleast baker is better than Sam darnold?

Guys it’s becoming impossible to defend baker much more. The dude was double clutching all game and that interception was the epitome of horrible.

As of right now, there is no evidence to suggest baker has the ability to carry this team on his back.

I mean damn, Mac Jones looked far better than baker. Why is the rookie more decisive than our 4th year #1 pick? Lemme guess, it’s still OBJs fault, and Stefanski, and injuries, and the team we played, and the wrong astrology sign or something.

jc

This forum is a joke.

Last week we were talked about like the second coming of Christ.

This week we are talked about like a dumpster fire.

Can we just get some consistancy please? Or not hurl ourselves off cliffs?

That's what everyone wants from the Browns...consistency.

The Browns have achieved that. They are consistently inconsistent.

It's always like this on Sunday night after a bad game.
And it's always like last Sunday night after a big win.
We're fan(atic)s. And we're incredibly consistent.

And never, ever, ever hang out in "Gameday" in Real Time.

The two extremes you described are on-point.
CLE is a .500 team.
As always, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

GrafZ06 nailed the 2021 Browns a few posts earlier. I hated today's game, but I'm not scouting tall buildings as launch pads or eyeing razor blades as suitable alternatives to Monday morning.

I think for the first time in forever I'm not going to watch the game next week. Considering going off roading instead. If they win I'll watch on gamepass. If they lose my day will not have been ruined.

Rish, you'll watch, the Browns are a vice we all can't kick.

I'll be at the game <cringe emoji>. They'll win, its perfectly within their M.O. to win a game like this. Backs against the wall, inferior opponent.

The litmus test is against the Ravens the following week on SNF. Another opportunity to prove the naysayers wrong.

Snippet from Jason Lloyd's article in The Athletic...

Yes, the Browns have talent on both sides of the ball. No, they are not a good football team. They lead the league in pre-snap penalties, which is a direct reflection on discipline and coaching. They’re 28th defensively in third downs — only the Dolphins, Chargers, Falcons and Washington allow opponents to convert more often. The only other teams in the bottom 10 with legitimate playoff hopes (Chargers, Chiefs and Buccaneers) all rank in the top six in third-down conversion rates on offense. The Browns are 23rd. They were a pitiful 1 for 11 on third downs Sunday.

And so it begins, this two-month march into the wilderness. After the winless Lions visit next Sunday, the final six games are all against current playoff teams. This has the potential to get worse before it gets better.

The Browns spent about $30 million to upgrade this defense. Similarly, so much more was expected from the offense.

Expectations in November match Cleveland’s temperature today. Everything is falling.

Bro- please take this in the spirit in which it's intended: as a fellow fan who has lived through all the same stuff you have:
"If a Browns loss ruins your entire Sunday, you still don't know how to be a real Browns fan."

I used VHS to time-shift my Browns games ever since The Return. I did it for 3 reasons:

1. I work on Sundays. Often. If I wanted to see a game in 1999 or 2002, VHS was my godsend.
2. It kept peace in the house. Wife wants to go to the "Fall Apple Festival," I'm good. I can watch them later, while she's 'Martha Stewarting' a peck of apples into applesauce.
3. If the Browns looked like they did today, I'd simply FF most of the game, to its inevitable 35-17 conclusion.

I still record every game. The technology has advanced, but the reasons why have never changed. In fact, it's such a household tradition that My Wife will set up the box to record CLE games during weeks that I'm too busy to get it done myself.
It's a win/win/win:

1. Clem gets to watch Browns games on his own schedule.
2. Clem gets to re-watch great plays made by Browns, and dissect individual plays for post-game talk.
3. Clem gets to FF the truly painful 'Sunday Stuff' CLE has been so eager to give us, over the years.


The only time I dedicate 100% of my time and attention to this team on a Sunday is when I'm actually at a game.

I'll dedicate 100% of my time and attention to Browns games when I see them in the playoffs. Last year's back-to-back games v. PIT and the game v. KC were Real Time affairs. Quality entertainment.


I totally get your desire to find something else to do.

I think this is very simple...

The defensive coordinator is below average and wildly inconsistent. Players were publicly criticizing him today.

The QB is below average and inconsistent.

The head coach is average at best.

Fixes...move on from Woods (either now or after the season). It really doesn't matter when. Browns season is done either way. Bring in competition for Baker for next year or shoot for the moon on a Wilson type trade. The sucky part is no way does Wilson want to play for Stefanski (I can't see any established QB wanting to play for Stefanski so it may not be achievable). As for Stefanski you give him more time. He's earned it, but you need to see him improve. And he has to bring in a more experienced defensive coordinator with a track record of success.

The rest of the players and team are fine, imo. But watching these games I don't know how you walk away and not come to the conclusion that coaching is a huge issue. I believe the Pat's ran 6 or 7 reverses today, each one wildly successful. That's just crazy.

Player this, player that, unit this, unit that... This was Belichick/Haley taking Stefanski/Woods behind the shed for a good old fashioned 3 hour ass whoopin. Everything we tried to do on offense, they were there, everything they tried on offense worked, they had our defense on its heels all day.

Most frustrating since Stefanski claimed or backs were against the wall last week and we played the best, most complete, game we've played all year... only to follow it up with that.

I do agree w/ much of your post.

Firing Woods now will soothe the immediate pain, but will make little impact on the current season. He won't be here next season. Coaching is currently an issue, but Stefanski will get time to grow into the position. Rightfully so.

Russell Wilson has a no-trade clause unless he vetoes the clause. He's not coming to Cleveland. Rodgers coming to Cleveland is a pipe dream.

For better or worse, the FO is thinking big picture and will sacrifice another season to determine if Baker can be the guy. He'll play next year under the 5th year option. He will not be extended in the off-season, barring a crazy turnaround during the remainder of the season.

I used to have one of those ...... long, long ago.

I remember my mom trying to use this circa '89 to record Roseanne. It never worked out.

Nobody could figure out how to record in the late 80's. Complete hit or miss. Just press the Play/Pause buttons simultaneously and hope it works out.

All I can say is, not even the VCR Plus folks had the time to read the manual and figure out how the heck to get that flashing 12:00 off the clock.

If you are going to play Detroit next week. Do not let Godwin Igwebuke beat you.
to say again.

Do Not Let Godwin Igwebuke beat you.

He's fast. He's the real deal. He's a typhoon on roller skates, with bulldozer cleats on a dime.

Nobody can stop him, they can only hope to contain him, limit his impact.
If the Lions, remain stupid enough, to keep giving the ball to their other running backs at a 400-1 rate, whatever, but you can't count on the Lions to remain that way. If you are playing the Lions,

Do Not Let Godwin Igwebuke beat you.

I admit this is is a probably an overreaction. I know about the rookie record, the second half of last year and the injury this year. But right now, at this moment, I would trade Baker Mayfield for Mac Jones. It feels like Baker is just never going to take us there. I was really impressed with Jones. Gets rid of the ball quick and has a good touch. Better deep ball thrower than I had been led to believe.

As others have said. Stefanski & Woods given a clinic by Belichic and McDaniels.

New England are a very complete team. Tough. Well coached. Disciplined. And an offense that kept our D off balance all freaking game.

The return of Chubb and Hunt will help - but as many pointed out, the moment we get behind we struggle: KS gets pass happy. We don't have the receiving core. We don't have the QB at the moment with Baker injured.

No surprise Baker with a broken bone and a torn labarum in his non throwing arm is not as good as Mc jones. More fodder for the haters no doubt and the double clutching and the interception certainly a problem. Maybe he'll be hurt and folks can be reminded of what really bad QB play looks like, because I have zero faith in Case. Anyway - to your point Big G - yes, I think the "real" Baker is the guy we saw in the last half of last year and the first two games this year when he was performing very well. But he needs to be healthy and no-one can possibly know what the shoulder injury has done to his confidence in the pocket and throwing motion etc. Wait and see. 5th year option is a total no-brainer, so we get to see how he does for at least one more season.

It ain't over. We've turned things around before under KS and we may well again. I do not think the Ravens, Bengals or Pit are as good as NE. Still a glimmer of hope.

I have no words

Baker may have issues seeing pass-catchers...but on that screenshot...it's 3rd & 7. The blue line is the line of scrimmage...the open "receiver" at the blue line is a fullback...he's gonna get 7 YAC? The other receiver is Schwartz...3 yards short of the first down. He's gonna get 3 YAC? Do we ever get YAC?

No, we never get YAC

I had some doubts about winning yesterdays game, I usually do with all our games, but I never thought it would be as bad as it was. I figured it would be close. I live in Pats land and always wear my Browns cap during football season. I'll be giving that a rest after yesterday.

I never put away this drum...we do not have the "weapons" that pundits, opponents and even Browns fans like(d) to tout...we just don't and didn't.

Our best WR right now is a 2nd year, 6th Rd guy from Michigan. Our All-pro TE looks like he's running on a sand volleyball court. Our TE weapon would have a broken nose today if the facemask didn't deflect the thrown ball.

Here's a summary of this thread to date to consider:

I've read that our OLine was man-handled (I too saw that);

I've read that our receivers don't get separation (shocker) (Hard to say from TV...but not one WR has a special skillset that translates to the field);

I've read that the playcalling on O was awful and the guy doing it should give up that job (I think that too);

I've read that R Wilson would not likely come to CLE to play for the current HC (But Baker should overcome the HC?);

And I've read that Baker is below-average...or my favy that 'things must be perfect for Baker to succeed' (see Hue Jackson) It's ridiculous. Baker has his issues...overcoming the above list is not one of them...not to mention the torn labrum and a strap keeping his lead arm down.

We are a bad football team right now with a ton of talent...Callahan and Stump Mitchell are getting a lot out of starters, injured guys and backups. The rest of the coahes simply aren't.

this is proof that it was never about OBJ. some of you guys will find any excuse in the world to not blame the guy who has the ball in his hands every snap.

why is baker the team captain if he holds no responsibility for anything?

One player who played his worst game IMO: Wills. He was awful.

JC...

This is the first time I have shut off a Browns game at half time, game was already decided by then imo...and I was right, I'm sure there's stuff I missed as I didn't watch the 2nd half at all. Just totally saddening, how do you get blown out by such a vast amount...while supposedly having a deep playoff caliber roster...

Baker- I will say this, a lot of people saw Drew Brees in him, from the get go I saw zero Brees in him. Brees was a wizard pre snap and post snap, Baker struggles mightily in these areas. Accuracy remains sketchy as well, Baker just isn't playing well...Is it his shoulder? or is he just an average QB? Start of the year (I think the Texans game?) They figured Baker out. On 4th down, just come crashing down on Baker, as he panics and the play is over before it starts...Baker has really lost points in this area (well the whole offense too) We are awful in the red zone when forcing to pass as well, just really disappointing anymore.

WRs- Landry is hurt, and he has done nothing since being hurt...He's regressed due to injury as well. In draft talk, I tried telling everyone that Shwartz tape looked like that of a 6th round draft pick (Doesn't play to timed speed, poor football IQ, timid, limited route tree...However his blazing 40 propelled him) Higgins has made some mental errors, and I haven't seen much of him. DPJ is our only hope out of this core, and he looked invisible yesterday. YAC and separation remains an issue with this core, this core just doesn't look even above average.

D- DTs aren't very good, gap responsibilities on the Dline and 2nd level showed up...IS it just me, or do our big DE's free lance too much...Our LBs still can't shed a block and always over pursue...Mack always seems to crash into someone, and gets washed out...I only saw JOK for a few snaps, he got washed out too. Our secondary always seeems to have a communication error, and leaves someone or multiples open. Secondary just seems awfully soft.

Coaching- Our team just looks very predictable this year, last year with coach Stef...There was so many plays that even had me guessing constantly what we were going to do. I also don't think the TE heavy sets are doing any favors, seems to be making our team slower...when we seem to be really needing someone to get open quicker. on the D, the 3rd and 4th down conversion rate is staggering, Woods and Stef need to right this ship ASAP.

Im waiting for Eotab to come in and defend his boy Baker now.

Carmen nailed it.

Baker is an enigma. He's better than we've had but he's not all that good. He's also mentally weak, imo. But what do you do? Go back into the QB abyss or pay him and hope for the best?

OBJ turned out to be an exceptionally poor addition...regardless of the results yesterday...and regardless of whose fault it was.

Baker was named a Team Captain for the game yesterday...just yesterday. They aren't using season-long TCs this year.

Among the many disasters of yesterday that I listed above...I'll copy it here since it appears you missed it..."Baker has his issues".

I'll say this again too..."We are a bad football team right now with a ton of talent"

I think there's probably 5-6 "Elite" QBs in the league, and none of them are coming here. I never thought Mayfield was elite, nor have I thought he was as deeply flawed as some posters. I think I'd put him in the 10-12 range of QB rankings. He's not in the $40M per year group, probably closer Kirk Cousins' level in today's dollars. I'd put it at $30M. IMO, you can win with a "good", not elite QB if you are able to surround him with good skill positions. We have solved the RB position, but I think we desperately need more big, fast WRs, and TE has been a hole on this team for as long as I can remember. I like Landry a lot when he's healthy, DPJ has promise that needs developing, but I think the rest - Higgins, Schwartz, Beckham, Bryant, Njoku, Hooper - are JAGs.

Bottom line for me is that we shouldn't hate the good in the absence of the perfect - because those guys are freaking unicorns. Mayfield may not be Mr Right, just Mr Right Now.

On a positive note, Troy Hill is OK with just a neck sprain. Thank God for that.

j/c...

Week 10 and coaching staff still searching for answers.

The Patriots and the Titans are teams that we were suppose to be this season. Tough, physical, run the ball and make a minimal amount of mistakes. I envy the fans of those teams right now. Maybe we need a guy like Rex Ryan to come in and coach this D. There's too much talent to keep playing like this.

Is it me or do we here the exact same thing after any loss?

Post game thought? People can no longer use OBJ as an excuse when Baker plays like hot garbage.

That’s a good statement of Baker. He’s certainly better than the Weedens and washed up Delhomme’s of the world, but he’s certainly not a FQB

Seems to me that many a poster are suffering from ill kept mind's ! ... Problems are such that I am not sure much can be ch anged between now and the end of the Season .. Not a lot you can do to add quality players this time of the year.. Ski is not going anywhere soon .. Don't think Berry and Ski would replace Woods at this point in the season..

The organization will be forced to review Ski in the OC roll in the off season .. I still believe part of the problem on the " O " is poorly designed pass routes on any given play ... Yes we could use another WR or two .. Using Swartz in place of Higgins is mind boggling .. Not having Chubb / Hunt and Felton hurts.

Woods D has always been a problem for me.. They couldn't get off the field on third down last season and again this year. Play prevent and still give up big plays .. Can't say the FO didn't try and up grade he personal this season. Although Walker reminds me of Walli from a by gone era. tons of tackles ( 4-5 yards down the field ) .. Weakness uo thee cut has been showing up .. ( Defensive Tackle anyone )

Baker is hard to nail down for a bunch of reasons .. The whole OBJ thig should have been settled in he off season ( problem from the start ) ..Injury's have taken their toll on the young man .. Ski's up and down / inconsistent play calling .. Baker can only run the play that he is handed. Receiver's arn't open near enough .. Oh yea , drops ! .. Not running designed roll outs for him is one of my Biggest pet peeves ..

There is still a lot football left .. Some of it will be GOOD .. LOL

I think that's a total croc of made up bologna..... People used OBJ as a means to crucify Baker. No one said Baker was bad because of OBJ. Some said Baker played better without OBJ... You are creating a narrative that never existed.

You obviously weren't reading the board. Things were posted like "OBJ is in Bakers head." "We can only have on alpha and that should be Baker. OBJ is garnering too much attention." "OBJ is running the wrong routes and he is the first read. It throws off Baker's timing." And let me ask you, when people kept saying Baker plays better without OBJ, are you trying to say that isn't trying to place the fault of Bakers poor play on OBJ? I mean really?

The only people who were pushing a narrative were those making excuses for Baker by trying to shift the blame for it onto OBJ. It's those people who will have to find a new narrative. That crap will no longer flush and the scent of it stagnating in the bowl is becoming putrid and rank.

I don't agree with your conclusions. If OBJ is/was in Bakers head... That's a Baker problem not an excuse. Oh well.

When Baker was throwing to OBJ and missing him, maybe all those things are in play and valid? If Baker is missing open TEs or other WR that are open... Hardly anything to do with blaming OBJ.

If OBJ was constantly running the wrong routes and it had a negative impact on the team and Baker's performance, then why did Stefanski keep putting him in the line up? Uh oh, I just gave them another excuse.

Because THATS never happened before!

You can't run from the truth. Well, it looks like maybe you can.

It's not you. He may as well have this recorded, he says it so often.

At some point you need to actually do better and stop saying it.

This is like Groundhog Day. We had all the momentum going a few years back, then they decide to have Freddie run the team and disaster ensued. Freddie gets canned and Kevin comes in and takes us to the Playoffs. Big expectations this year and we flounder again. Remined me of a few years ago where we were expected to be a Super Bowl Contender and had 5 Prime Time games that year and totally blew it. The Browns definitely play their best when they have no expectations and media hype around them.

Amen to that. I'm also tired of coaches and players taking the blame for things that never get fixed. I just heard a clip of Anthony Walker saying he takes total responsibility for the defensive failures. While I don't think he's very good, it seems a bit excessive, not to mention self-important, for him to take ALL the blame for that joke of a defense we watched yesterday. It just seems disingenuous to me when everybody is tripping over each other to take blame because I think they think if everyone's to blame, no one is to blame.

Baker does have responsibility, but to counter your argument, there are folks on here that it doesn't matter if we lose 16-10 or 45-42 or 45-7.. or how Baker played, they go right after Baker because we lost, so it must be his fault. I don't know how much of a problem OBJ was but he wasn't proving to be a part of the solution either.

I can't name the complete list of Browns players, who earned their position on the team by coming into training camp and beating out the Browns starter at their position when they arrived.

and weren't just given their place by being a draft pick or a flashy signing from somewhere else.

Can you?

Coach Stef says we have to do better. I slap my forehead and think "Of course! Why didn't I think of that?".

I thought about this earlier today. I like Baker and feel he is better than you think, but he is no top level QB. He can be a good QB, and for me that is all you need if you have other components around him.

As to your question, I came to the conclusion we put him on a franchise tag and spend a fairly high pick on a QB. Maybe not a 1st rounder just yet, but maybe a 2nd or 3rd for sure. That way we can let Baker walk if need be after next season and go with the drafted guy, to either be a bridge or end up our QB.

We are quickly working ourselves in to a tough decision because as of now, Baker isn't looking to be worth 40 or so mil a season and i am pretty sure that is what he is going to be looking for in a contract.

Baker has a lot of pride and is said to play with a chip on his shoulder. That being said, he may realize that after a season like this he would take less to keep many of the guys we have right now so they can help him win when he gets healthy. I too agree Baker is not elite but when healthy and with the right people around him is good enough. JMO

Man that "chip on the shoulder" is the most over used cliche in sports
But its attached to Mayfield like a John.Deere hat on a farmer.
Great Baker you.have chip on your shoulder, now go use your shoulder
And carry this team.

That's why it's the most important position in sports. No other position dictates wins and losses more than the QB.

No one is blaming the Packers D when they allow a go ahead score with 40 seconds left and no timeouts. Know why? Because they are too busy celebrating Rodgers come from behind heroics.

The people that have been critical of Baker have been so because they saw this coming. No wins against quality opponents (except the Bengals who he appears to own). No chance to win when he doesn't have a complete roster around him. No ability to make clutch plays or come from behind. No ability to raise the level of play of those around him. Talking heads, former players, actually laughing at him on sports talk shows.

Stefanski has been meh. Woods has been atrocious. But Baker has to own his own warts. He's a bottom quartile QB. Us fans deserve better. And Baker doesn't deserve all this loyalty you and others show just because he's been the best of the worst since the return.

j/c

Lots of talk about how good LAR are this year. Poised to host their own SB.
I see they're having the same kind of game tonight that CLE had yesterday.

Nobody in his right mind thinks that the Rams aren't better than this game.
We shouldn't think the Browns aren't better than yesterday, either.

just sayin'

That's just KS doing his thing. I agree it's already gotten really old, but I disagree that this is his actual answer to the question... just his coach-speak to the media.

And that's a very accurate description. None of the posters on this board know how much of, if any problem OBJ was at all. But the evidence is clear he wasn't the solution.

As for Baker. I've seen him take far too much criticism in games that really were more of a team loss. I've also seen too many excuses made for him when he has performed terribly. To me it's a mixed bag in that department. I've seen "good Baker" and I've seen "bad Baker". It doesn't seem like a lack of talent is the problem. It seems to be more of an issue of him being able to mentally harness that talent in terms of execution on a consistent basis. He's over half way into his fourth season.

As of now, it doesn't appear he has the ability to perform on enough of a consistent basis to take us where we want to go. Hopefully I'll see evidence I'm wrong about that.