Super Bowl here we come.

Mayfield is done as our QB!

Glad we won. It was ugly as hell but we won and kept ourselves alive in the playoff race.

Lots to critique but hey, the Steelers tied them, and we beat them. It’s whatever.

It wasnt pretty, but its a win.

Please heal up Baker.

As I said in the prediction thread. If we win, it will be one of those wins that feels more like a loss

I don’t see how Baker can start next week.

Not making excuses for this putrid performance, but despite their record....Detroit has made more than a few teams look bad this year.

Looking at our schedule, we just got our last win of the season.

Me either, but he will.

Can't remember the last time see the I was this upset after a win .. Ski is not putting his Offence in positions to be affective... Berry has to see that .. Either I vastly over rated the talent on this team or there is an OC problem .

It's a "W" and not a "L"... it's keeping the Browns in the hunt and that alone is BIG !! We all want a post season got to win the ugly ones and they did !

The end was exciting and of course I'm glad we won.

Game ball to Nick Chubb - and Baker should hand it to him.

.wanna bet! That would mean he's not playing again and he'll be there next week

At least our D got some affirmation in their play today. Yes, I know it was Detroit, but they ran all over Pittsburgh last week. And Goff only had 114 yards passing last week too. AND that montage on tv showed a LOT of losses by last second field goals...so I think we tend to sell Detroit short because of their won/loss record.

yeah wonder if the Ravens fans complained when they beat the Lions with help from the refs and a miracle FG?

Ugly... glad we won... glad Chubb was back... hope Baker can get healthy... defense and Chubb get game ball...

So based upon that game that is your take?

Just the fact that Baker played is an accomplishment.

The receiver position? We were loaded up today. Jarvis is on one leg. DPJ out. Higgins slow. Schwartz not that he adds much anyway - out.

Bradley his first game. Hooper hands.

What a keen eye.

Defense played a very good game overall;

10 Points Usually Gets You A Win:

Pass Defense was very Good 15-23 77 Yards 2 Picks

Run Defense Not So Much 23 Carries 168 Yards 7.3 YPC

Chubb is a Beast 22 Carries 130 Yards 5.9 YPC

I am Frustrated Watching Baker Play Injured (I Love Baker) But Enough!!

I am Frustrated Watching Stefanski take Chubb Out Every Time He Gets Hot

We Won Go Browns 6-5 We Can Beat the Rats They have Been Lucky All Year ... Make It 7-5 Before Our Bye

We are an average Football Team.

well, I'm happy we won, but concerned that we struggled against an 0'fer team. I know it's injuries upon injuries tha have hurt this team, when healthy they can play with and beat any team. They will need to play a bit better to win in Baltimore though. imo Chubb looked good, need to get Higgins the ball more, he makes good catches. The OL needs to stop with all the stupid penalties. The D needs to really get a grip on stopping the run, yikes. Any win is a good win, but I am concerned with Baker playing so hurt.

J/C

Baker continuing to play hurt makes it so much tougher to evaluate which Baker Mayfield is the real Baker Mayfield.

If you don't like go root for someone else there is lock on the door ... smh

Any team can beat the Lions .its been.proven all.year.
Baker has peaked as a QB . And.his fan club needs to face the facts on that
If this team makes the playoffs it wont matter cause it will be a one and done

The guy is beat to death and you couch QBs all just wanna pile on... When you find somebody better than Baker to play QB on our roster we can talk, until then you are just making noise, useless noise.

We are our record.

I am a life long Browns fan for 48 years who was born outside of Cleveland. I have earned the right to criticize. I don't need your approval to be a fan or not. Move along.

I hear what you are saying, but I have to disagree. Mayfeild missed wide open receivers all game. Many were easy throws with guys open. He is hurt, or he just can't make the play, at this point,
I'm not sure. As for the defense, Detroit has not won, but they are always in games. The third quarter, was the epiyome of this season. You have a team down, and the defense lets the opposing team, run wild. High tackles, going for the strip instead of the tackle. I will say it again, Johnson III, is not that good. He has missed many tackles week after week, today was no exception.

Another thing that bothers me. I know jumping offsides is a stupid move, but if a Brown's player, sans Myles, does it, they immediately run to the sidelines. Many times this results in replacing a better player with someone less. This constant rotation, IMO, is getting a little too much. When players are making plays, their adrenaline is pumping. But it seems that, when this happens, many times they are pulled for rotation. When you beat your man, it gives you confidence that you can do it again. If this happens, it is also on the opposing players mind too. To be beat consistently by the same guy is disheartening at the least, and can make you react a little slower. Pulling McDowell, when he is tuned up, is, IMO a mistake.

Bradley showed to the ability to get separation, that is a plus.

All in all, it's a win. The next five weeks will decide this team's fate. Any loss in this period, marks the end of the play off run.

If, I'm Stephanski, I consider sitting Baker next week. Not that Keenum is better, but with the bye coming, give the kid time to heal up. I say this thinking that maybe the injuries are affecting him, thus causing his poor play. Time will teel.

I take a win, however we get it. A loss would have been devastating to our playoff hopes and how lucky have the Ravens been this season?)
I knew Detroit was not going to be an easy out.

I like Arrington as a color guy, first time I heard him.... and I thought he was entertaining with the way he describes stuff.


Chubb down the stretch, so punishing, clutch when we needed him to be. I am so glad we locked him up. Our MVP.

D played solid although the Lions aren’t a scary offence at all.


Baker Mayfield. Lord, what the hell? Two bad picks, other times made elite-level throws. Too inconsistent. If it’s injures that are hampering him - and I’m not sure to what extent they’re hindering him - but they sure don’t help - then maybe Case should start next week and give Baker three weeks to heal. But the guy toughs it out, gotta give him that much.

I saw 84 make a nice catch and said to my buddy, “who is he?” Our WR corps is gutted right now, DPJ gotta get back next week, Hunt as well.

Love Teller, but can he learn some technique in pass pro, please? All the penalties we are getting just ticks me off.

Next Sunday night is likely the season for us, IMO. We have to win in Baltimore, but they’re beatable.

Ugliest win I can remember. Detroit sucks. They kinda just muck it up and make it awkward.

Baker is cooked right now. Injuries and poor play have marred his season.

It was a struggle but we won.
Detroit is not as bad as their record. Gave us a fight.
Baker is tough as nails.
We won because of Chubb and our defense.

GO BROWNS!

What’s the point of Case Keenum if he can’t play in that game?

Yea, Baker is so beat up it's amazing he's even playing at all.

Dan Campbell was so conservative that it made me think they were trying to lose. Also, Tim Boyle made Curtis Painter look like Peyton Manning.

That's a good question. Maybe if Keenum gets reps with the first team in practice this week he will start against the Ravens? That's probably not going to happen and Baker will start next week.

I'm glad Campbell was so conservative.

Heck yeah. It basically won us the game.

Boyle is likely the worst starter any of us will ever see. And we've seen a lot of bad starters.

- Enjoyed sitting in the drizzling rain watching two bad teams attempt to play football.

- Watching this offense is stomach churning.

- The refs saved several drives today for the Browns. They needed every flag to win this one.

- Thank you Nick Chubb. You are the offense.

- Disappointed I didn't get to see Myles Garrett's token sack today. Bummer.

- Nice INT by Ward.

- Baker dodging the postgame press conference was interesting. Probably for the better.

- It's a win, certainly was not the "get right" win that was needed. Same questions still remain after this one.

- Hopefully, Lamar is still out next week or curb stomping is likely.

Baker was Dilferesque today. He could not hit the broad side of a barn. That is unlike him.

I am so glad Chubb was back for this game. It was the difference between a win and a loss.

Why pile on with a damn tweet?

We knew he was bad before he played a snap today.

At this point, who puts us in a better position to win a game. A banged up, inconsistent/inaccurate Baker or a healthy Case Keenum?

The guy who played against the Broncos was much better than what Baker was today.

a healthy Nick Mullens.

What a crapshow.
Does the water in Lake Erie cause putrid football? A study should be done.
Did that JOKe play today? If he did,he's not much of a difference maker.
Chubb is outstanding,Garrett is good,the oline is good.The rest of this team are just guys,nothing special.

I say play Keenum next week, then see where Baker is after the bye. At this point, Baker is not playing any better than Keenum would be. Get healthy for the late run.

Thank you for reminding me about that actually.

Man the weather sucked. I’m not saying baker gets that excuse for a lot of this horrible throws, but that was like those two games against the raiders and Houston last year where it was just a defensive game and who ran the ball the best.

There’s a lot we can talk about but we should be happy with a win and our playoff hopes alive.

We didn’t lose. We didn’t tie the game like the Steelers. We won.

We got Baltimore next. Maybe this teams surprises us and gets up for this game knowing we got the bye. Even with lamar, we have a shot to beat these guys. They have some truly lucky wins this year, including against this very Detroit team.

From the eye test Keenum looked better than Baker today

Only after the Browns defense gave up that embarrassing 57 yd TD run by the Lions Swift, did the Browns defense decide to begin playing as if the game was on the line. This defense is capable of playing damn good defense, WHEN THEY WANT TO!

The fact that some on our defense pick and choose when they want to put forth their maximum effort singles some serious issues for the Browns chances of making the playoffs. This defense is capable of playing playoff caliber defense, but only if they are willing to do so on every play. If they are not willing to give their max effort it is going to be a major problem for the Browns chances of making the playoffs.

Defense can win championships...but only if the Browns decide to give their best effort.

jmo, mac

It was a win that kept us in the playoff race. I'll take it!

Browns were lucky to win today. Nick Chubb is the man. Baker Mayfield should not be playing right now as he missed WIDE open throws today. This season is pretty much over considering the remaining schedule. Finishing 9-8 would be a miracle considering how inconsistent the play has been and how banged up the roster is. The defense needs a new coordinator, some talent at linebacker and a more aggressive attitude. The offense needs a new coordinator and probably a QB in the draft. NO chance Baker gets a long term contract the way he has performed and the Browns need to have someone ready to take over if next year goes to hell. Hate Baltimore but they will throttle the Browns with Jackson at QB these next two games unless something substantial improves. Such high hopes for this season too. Oh well.

(Imo) There's no way Baker doesn't start next week. Unless the arm actually falls off, I don't see the doctors or coach making that decision. I suspect Keenum will be taking 1st team reps this week in practice, and the pull chain will be much shorter on Baker for game day.

As far as who gives us the better chance, of the two possibilities, I still think Baker. But he should be pulled sooner rather than later if he looks like he did today and we are down by a couple scores.

I don't really like the idea of resting him in a game before the bye simply because we hope to go on a run after that. It's a divisional game, it's Baltimore and the run should start next week. Besides, I doubt the injury will be any better in terms of his guide arm or play after the bye.

Stick with your starter until you truly feel Keenum can take us on that "run".

Play d
Run Chubb sounds like a equation for the playoffs.
Injuries everybody is in bad shape.

You type really well.
lol

Was at the game. Luckily was a guest in a corporate box, so weather not an issue.

We're ... bad. The way we started, with the token drop by Hooper and a God-awful throw for a pick by Baker, I thought we were going to lose. Actually I am afraid we still might lose this one.

Props to Chubb. And at the end when the runs up the gut were getting stuffed, started going to the outside. Almost looked like an in-game adjustment.

Baker had a couple of really nice, perfect, throws. But he was missing guys everywhere. Missing them high, low, out front. Two yards away from a 6'5" Njoku on a screen and lobs it over his head.

Too many penalties - encroachment, neutral zone, offsides, offensive holding. Lucky the Detroit DBs were grabby.

Dying to hear about how bad the defense was. Gave up 10 points, and outside of a couple of plays pretty much shut down the Lions. But when its the defense's fault then Baker is off the hook.

With this latest trend, looking at 6-11.

As always, glad we won the game. First win against Detroit since 2001. We improved our lifetime record with them to 6-19!!

j/c...

The Browns have scored 7 total points in the 4th quarter over their last 6 games.

Oy vey.

Congrats on the win.

That kids got guts.. No question. Not sure how he was able to start today...

Ugly game.. A win is a win

Y’all sure do like to bitch about a win.

Not a great game to watch. The play was sloppy and the teams seemed to lack energy.

The temps were around 45, but trust me, it felt colder than that. It was a pretty miserable day to sit and watch a football game.

A win is a win, is a win, but it didn't leave a good feeling in the stadium.

I wasn't excited about the win ..it made the Browns 6-5 and a chance to stay in a play-off birth...


I wasn't at the game today, thankfully my granddaughter had her birthday party today !

Happy birthday to her!

Win and survive. Not much more for me to say about it.

I noticed that as well. Which is troubling that a team fighting for their playoff lives gave off the vibe that they'd rather be anywhere else but playing a game today. Saw this same thing in the Steelers game.

When you can't get up for these games, you haven't changed the culture yet, as much as everyone in the organization keeps saying it has changed. Everyone just going through the motions.

Same ol' same ol' Browns. Overly conservative coach allowing teams to come back on us. QB that can't be trusted (at least this time it's cuz he's injured not bad), Misusing personel to fit a scheme instead of making the scheme fit personel, and terrible refs robbing us, thank goodness later on they robbed the Lions even more so we could still win.

I don't understand why everyone except the Browns can see this same pattern for 30 years. 6-5 is so good compared to what we're used to, I'm just thrilled to be late November and still have a chance to make the playoffs, but that won't last more than this year.

A win is a win. I have never seen a team need a bye week as bad as this team. Hopefully, they can put it together next week and get a win before a much needed break.

Meh...That is all.

Did anyone else notice Detroit Oline jumping repeatedly and not getting flagged? Specifically the left tackle

It appeared that way, but I also remember Joe Thomas doing the same thing.

"Baker Mayfield has reached a new low in his NFL career. Mayfield is clearly injured, yet he insists on gutting out his multiple ailments, and Kevin Stefanski is abiding to the detriment of his offense. Mayfield was again dreadful, completing 15 of 29 passes for 176 yards, one touchdown (a short pass in the flats to Chubb) and two interceptions. Many of his incompletions were to open receivers Mayfield simply missed, the interceptions were typically ugly, and the plays in between inspired so little confidence in Cleveland's offense as it currently exists, Browns fans rained boos down on the field -- while winning the game. Gone are the days of Stefanski's sharp, balanced and unpredictable attack. In its place is an offense stuck in 5 feet of mud with a banged-up quarterback trying to pull them out of it. Folks wearing brown and orange are seriously considering a future without Mayfield, who looks nothing like the quarterback who helped Cleveland win a playoff game last year. It's tough to evaluate him because of his injuries, but it's even more difficult to understand why the Browns aren't turning to Case Keenum just to give Mayfield a break."

He kicked his leg back before he moved forward

It was a game that both teams probably just wanted to get over. Detroit has their showcase on Thanksgiving coming up and the browns have SNF in Baltimore coming up. Both teams assumed the outcome … there was zero energy from the start

Man, I sure hope that's all it was, and that this team will look better in 7 days.
I was walking my dog after the game and a good bud txtd me. I wrote, "What a frustrating, lackluster game.:
It felt all too (1-31) familiar.

I really did spend 3 hours of my Sunday in a perpetual state of annoyance.

j/c...

Baker avoiding the interview is going to be the scuttlebutt all week. The Tim Couch interview came to mind as well. The beginning of the end. The thought of this not working out is nauseating.

Yeah, the vibe is not good in Browns land right now

Why do you always state the obvious?

Trying to keep your 20 post count a day going?

It is much better to win ugly vs the Lions than playing well and lose vs the Chiefs and Chargers. Every year and every team that make the playoffs have to win a game or 2 win they play ugly. I remember in 1986 the Browns beat the Oilers who had a back up QB Oliver Luck 13 to 10 in Overtime. That was a 12-4 team. It happens.

After looking around the NFL at the ups and downs of every team this season and watching teams we think are good getting beat by teams we don't think are any good, watching the best teams in the NFL get blown out by "average" teams... I am, more this year than most, happy for any W..

I thought 2020 was the weirdest season ever: empty stadiums, players sidelined because of a virus instead of injury, a HC watching his team's playoff game from his basement family room...

This year looks more traditional/normal, but every week has been just as weird as last year. The standings are a dream for the league- a record number of teams are still in the playoff hunt, because of the parity they've hoped for. Any team can win any game.

As a Browns fan, it's been exhilarating at times, frustrating at others. As football fan, it's been crazy entertaining.



#keepnflweird

Over/under of 50 percent of baker being here next year id take the under. As bad as Baker has been, stefanski has been 10x worse. His playcalling and game plans suck. Not turning to keenum and giving baker a fighting chance to heal is just asinine. If anyone would pick a game to play keenum, Anyone with half a brain would say the game playing a team without a win and playing a qb that’s thrown 4 passes as a pro. Stefanski was fools gold last year. Any goodwill or benefit of the doubt from last year is gone. He hasn’t proved to be any better than anything else we’ve had. His ego and refusal to concede playcalling has hurt this team. Baker will ultimately pay the price and the circle of suck will continue.

Baker is not going anywhere. His 5th year will decide what we do with him.

Did you forget Johnny Football already?

No.

We'll see about that.

j/c...

Going to be interesting when Baker has the opportunity to speak on Wednesday. I think the Browns sit Baker next week....

Baker is weak mentally. That, more than the injuries, is probably why he is playing bad. Not getting a contract I think has made him press. And he wants to be lauded for intangibles like playing hurt or changing the culture and have everyone ignore the play on the field. It just doesn''t work that way.

Would like to see the team back him this week and come up with some "story" as to why he walked off though. Season is not over. AFC is an absolute crapshow. It's going to be all about the team that gets the hottest. We can ill afford a temper tantrum from the QB.

Looking at the standings, tiebreakers in particular and where the Browns are at as a team, I'd say the season is over as unpopular as a take that may be.

The Browns seem two lack two important traits: pride and culture.

The Browns won today and their playoff odds decreased from 38% to 32%. I just do not see a path. Much closer to spiraling. It seems evident in the body language, lack of energy. Something is off with this team.

You're too much. Extra.

Baker is done in Cleveland. He is not Berry's/CKS's QB and has never been.

Baker's and his Twitter wife's antics sure didn't help. OBJ 2.0.

Look for an 0-6 finish.

Back to the Browns being the Browns.

2020 was an anomaly.

Finally we have a realist. You're seeing exactly what I see without any rose colored glasses.

I didn't stay to watch Baker leave. I left several moments earlier to get a head start out of the stadium. I had been hoping for another TD to go up 20-0 so we could have left then. I was cold. I thought I dressed enough, but I suppose as I age I like the cold less and less. I am going to have to rethink my cold weather gear for when it really does get cold.

I get Bakers frustration, but walking off is rinky dink. You don't just walk off without shaking some hands. I can give him a pass about the press conference even if that is bad form. Not going out to shake hands, even if just 2-3, then walking off is required sportsmanship IMO. If I was coach, I'd bench him for a half a game if for nothing else.

Not a good look at all.

Jc

Got sleep, clear head.

I don’t want to hear anything about Stefanski and woods. Defense held the lions to 10 points.

Stefanski called a great game. We’d score more points had baker hit wide open receivers and didn’t turn the ball over. Cause again, the play call was correct; baker throwing crap passes was not.

Also, Chubb has a bigger performance had we not got dumb holding calls. That held our offensive output back as well.

Baker better figure out how to hit open receivers. We might need our QB to carry us to a win, which means we’re probably gonna lose if today and last weeks game is any indication.

That's a terrible look.

Well, we didn't tie or need a 66yd field goal and another 5 seconds after the play clock expired to beat them.

j/c…

If Goff would have played we would have most likely got beat.

Baker did play.

Now everyone wants to hang him. So be it.

I support him. And I would go to war with him.

He did not play well. Obviously. But he played. And he made some good plays as well as the bad. Give me 10 more guys with his mentality.

A healthy Baker is good enough to win a Super Bowl with a good team. That is what counts.

It is so easy to sit with remote in hand and criticize. It is whole different animal to stand on a field with pain all over your body and take more punishment.

The truth is most quarterbacks and players would be done for the year.

The Browns passing game is poor right now for a number of reasons. Baker's injuries are one part.

That is not all. Jarvis is hurt and is not the player he was. DPJ is a young guy becoming better but he did not play.
Higgins is a guy with limited skills. We have nobody else. Schwartz has done very little because he doesn't have much besides straight line speed. And he was out. Odell who was supposed to be the man. Left town.

Hooper is a TE not a wide out and he drops passes. Njoku has played well but he is not Travis Kelce.

The Browns are right now a one dimensional team. We are no threat as a playoff contender.
=================================================================

There are players on defense that are overrated. One is John Johnson. Hill is no big deal as well. Harrison is not a complete player. Delpit is a rookie.

Taki and Wilson are average at best.
=====================================

So all of those who want to pile on Baker. Have at it.

Then go find somebody better while you are at it. Talk about Mahomes, Herbert, Lamar, and any other dream quarterback who we can not get.

Meanwhile, I stand with Baker. Because he is our quarterback and IMO he is good enough to win with. When we actually have a good receiver room and he doesn't have the injuries he is now playing with.

Great post and I agree with your sentiments 100%.

I thought Baker looked like crap yesterday. He threw a couple of great throws - the first scoring drive I was hopeful things were clicking - then we had a 10-0 lead I think and Chubb had just run a couple big chunk plays for first downs. . . . The announcer said something to the effect "That's all the Browns need to do now, keep running it with Chubb. Run left, run right and keep doing it as they can't stop him. Mix in an occasional play action pass." ..... the next play was a play action pass and the WR was wide open and Baker threw an interception. And from there the game was tight and we struggled to a win, getting very fortunate with some penalties. Now - the only reason I say we were lucky with the penalties, is not because they weren't penalties ... it is because they were called. We've seen so many phantom calls and non-calls - it was a real surprise to see us get calls we 'deserved'.

Anyhoo - Baker played very badly. He shouldn't be out there at this point. As much as I have no faith in Case Keenum after the Denver game, he's a better option than a banged up Baker. But I agree with the above post by Bone. I think it would be so Browns for the organization to move on, and then watch him have a long a successful career somewhere else.

JC...

To see how we barely escaped the winless Lions without their staring QB (Don't get me wrong Goff is no Tom Brady) IMHO this team really has no chance this year, even through we got the win, somewhat felt like a loss to me. Baker went from being banged up, to now banged and hobbling around. I'll give him credit, playing through 3 injuries at the toughest position to play, is no small feat. But at the same time, He left a lot of plays out there...His accuracy is mostly horrid nowadays, simple throws even within 8 yards, are sailing or off target. There was several moments when Higgins and Njoku both seemed disinterested, energy seems really off. Seems like this team is always taking a step or two back, cant move forward is your constantly shifting yourself into neutral.

I watched with the sound muted so I might have missed some explanation or discussion, but I think its possible Mayfield was upset at some Lions' tactics that appeared to be attempts to injure him. One was in the pile-up after the sack on 3rd and 11 where there looked to be some kind of scuffle between Baker and some Lions. Another was when Baker rolled left and a pass rusher leapt to try to block his throw, simultaneously appearing to kick Mayfield in his injured knee. Last, when the defender had two full steps after Baker's throw to pull off, but instead leveled Mayfield. At the end of the game, I saw him glare across the field then turn and walk off. Maybe he just didn't want to make nice.

Could someone who was at the game fill me in on the number of boos Mayfield was getting in the 4th quarter? Just heard Daryl Ruiter saying it was a "significant amount". If so, that might also be a reason for the walk off after the game.

Maybe they were trying to bite his kneecap off?

I love it when people use ridiculous hyperbole like this.

The criticism of Baker really bugs me.

If anyone for a minute believes that Baker is really the quarterback that we saw yesterday. Then pound salt.
Did Jared first pick in the draft Goff play yesterday? Oh, he was questionable.


All the haters imagine when you got your sore arm from a vaccine shot and then had someone pound that spot continuously.

Think about playing in the NFL with a torn labrum and a break on the top of your shoulder. Have a bone bruise on your heel and knee and play quarterback with a brace. Then step out on a NFL field with temps in the 40's and it's raining. When a pitcher tweeks something. He goes to the clubhouse.
The NFL field of play is no playground.

It would be different if what we saw is what he is.

Stefanski has the authority to start Keenum.

Just the fact that Baker is willing to go out there and try to compete. That tells me a lot.

I am angry. I have seen total trash playing quarterback for this team. I mean the worst quarterbacks I have ever seen. Kessler, Weeden, Manziel, Kiser etc. etc etc.

Now we have a guy who will give everything he has to win a game. A guy who supports his teammates. Plays for his coach. Does whatever they ask him to do. Puts up with a pusscatore like Odell. Plays with mediocre receivers. And because he plays when he should not and does not play well. Then the bs fair weather fans sucker punch him.



I am not ok with that.

Let's go back and play musical chairs at quarterback and go 1-31 so everyone can be happy.

so glad it pleases you because your opinion means so much

Man stop it. Baker played like trash. Just because you want to go “well but he’s still our QB” doesn’t make you anymore of a fan than anyone else.

We’re ALL on this board because we’re diehard browns fans. But that damn sure doesn’t mean imma brown nose any player on this team regardless of how they play.

Baker playing hurt would be fine if he was still effective. He isn’t. If he’s that hurt he needs to sit his ass down and let Case play until he feels healthy enough.

Cause those were wide open passes he missed. I don’t care how injured he is, those are routine passes any QB should make regardless of injury.

QBs only get credit for playing hurt if they aren’t holding the team back. We almost lost to the freaking lions because injured baker is holding this team back.

That FACT doesn’t make me less of a fan than you, or means I want him to fail. I want our TEAM to have the best chance to win, and right now baker doesn’t give us that chance.

Maybe the injuries have something to do with it. But yesterday’s game was horrible by any standard from our QB.

The boos came loudly after Baker’s interception in the 4th quarter. You could feel it building throughout the game. When the Browns got the ball back the crowd was loudly chanting, “Chubb! Chubb! Chubb!” making it clear that nobody wanted Baker to throw the ball again and Chubb was the only chance at closing out the game.

It had all the feeling of Tim Couch getting cheered when he was concussed and had to be taken out of the game.

Who makes the decision to play?

Tell me that please.

When healthy does he make those throws??

If Keenum gives us the best chance to win then why did he not start?

Did I call you a bad fan?

You want to criticise baker have at it.

Better than stating the absurd.

A win is a win, especially with how our division is this season. We're going to need to keep winning and hand our division as many losses as possible from here on out. Getting a win vs Detroit isn't anything besides that first step.

Baker played terrible. I can see how leg injury(s) can throw off his accuracy (he threw a bunch of terrible balls yesterday), but he's had bad games before sans injuries. He also (presumably) doesn't have an injury that would contribute to him making poor decisions. I'm no coach, but I don't see how you can look at that game and decide to start him vs the Ravens next week. I just don't see it. We paid Keenum handsomely to be available in times like this.

I alternated between enjoying and hating Lavar Arrington. He dropped some gems and he had some cringy whiffs. Probably would've helped if they knew the players' names as well.

I'll hold judgement on the defense. Detroit has made lots of good teams look really bad on the way to a win. The weather didn't help. I like the comment someone made above about both teams just wanting to get this game over with.

The rest of the offense played similarly un-energetic, except for Chubb and Johnson. We are so so lucky to have the RB room that we have. More poorly thrown balls, and more 'good-enough' passes clanging off hands. I thought Hooper had a really good game, though. Also happy we got Jarvis going a little bit. Speaking of, Jarvis was questionable to return but was back in there at the end. Dude is battling injuries and isn't too happy with how things are going, but is still a warrior. Props to him.

Hope JOK is ok. We need him as healthy as possible going forward.

Exactly, this is correct.

At some point it becomes a selfish act from Mayfield IMO to keep himself on the field. Pardon me, but if he's too stupid to understand that he's actively hurting the team then it's time for management to step in and bench him.

Replace him with the next man up because that's what professional organizations and competent management do. The people higher up are supposed to know better than you, have the overall big picture in their head and do what's best for everything as a whole while protecting their investment (players are some of it). Incompetent management does the opposite. Makes me think of real life examples where management overworks tired, mentally shot individuals because they don't know any better. There's a tipping point in that scale when someone is so injured and not themselves that their productivity hurts the team more than helps it. I believe we've broken the needle off and are WAY beyond that point.

swis...Let's see...Stefanski had options at QB and he may not have done what "you wanted"...choosing to stay with Baker.

Browns won the game and you still are not happy!

That might say more about those fans who are more concerned about their own agendas vs those Browns fans who are most concerned about score when the game clock reads "ZERO"...

BROWNS WIN 13-10...that's good enough for me!

A win is a win.

But we beat the lions. Barely, because our QB tried to give this game away.

Baker plays like this against the ravens. Yes or no, are winning?

Sometimes players have to be saved from themselves. This is that situation. If a player plays, then the injury should be no excuse for their performance or their competence. If it does, then they should sit. Coaching has failed in that respect. You have to think about the other 52 people. Baker in the last few weeks has looked as bad as any QB we've trotted out.. Last year he looked like he could be the guy. Which is it, baker regressing or coaching regressing. I know I give Baker crap but I think coaching has failed more than Baker has. Baker has shown to be above average quite a bit. I can't see how he regressed this bad. Either coaching not making him sit, or coach and calling plays taking away his strengths in the name of trying to keep him healthy(which isn't working) Feels like a watershed moment as an Org

Did you see the ravens the last 2 weeks - with and without Lamar. The mighty Bears and Dolphins, please.

How about their terrific win against the Lions earlier this year, please.

Injured Baker gives the Browns a much better chance to win than Keenum - plain and simple.

Here's a question I would like an answer to regarding the Ravens. Lamar is out with an illness. Missed practice all last week with this "illness". What kind of "illness" is that exactly - Covid???? What other illness would cause you to miss an entire week of practice and game. Hmmmm. Inquiring minds would like to know. Ratbirds playing games down there.

Lamar and the rat birds constantly beat us.

Funny you failed to mention that.

1. Did you miss the game yesterday?

2. Do you think Lamar hasn’t been tested for Covid?

what does that have to do with "this" year?

1. I saw the game - i also saw the Ravens game.
2. Answer the question - what week long illness keeps you out. Stomach flue, chicken pox, measles, regular flue???

There are multiple factors at play here.

On offense outside of having an excellent running attack. The offense has been inconsistent.

Why?

Let's start at quarterback. Obviously Mayfield is injured. He has played hurt. It is the head coach who makes the decision who plays. The result has been inconsistent play.

What else? Wills has been hurt and more importantly Conklin. Hance is not a tackle. Hubbard is on the IR.

Receivers. We are below average as a group. Injuries have played a roll as well. Jarvis has missed games and when he has played he is not what he once was. We have no replacement for him. Schwartz is a rookie and is limited. His solo tool is straight line speed. He is small. He plays small. He is not good at running routes. Higgins lacks speed and quickness. He attacks zones well. He does not do well against good man coverage. DPJ is an upcoming young talent. However, he also has been hurt. Odell was counted on and he forced a trade.

What is left? Players at the end of the roster.

Right now we are a one dimensional offense.
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The defense. Some of the players we signed are either not as good as advertised or the scheme is not working.

Again the results have been inconsistent. I would not call the Lions with a quarterback in his first game a test.

Good offensive teams have beaten this defense badly. The Viking game and the Bengal game they deserve credit for playing well.
===================================================================================

We are not a complete team. We do not play complimentary football with any consistency. And we commit way to many penalty's.

Our record reflects all that.

We are not a playoff caliber team. Winning 3 of the last 6 games will be a real challenge.
===================================================================

The results of the final games of this season will dictate the decisions that Berry will need to address.

I remember a point twd the end of the game where it was second down and Arrington said "Cleveland has a back that can close out a game". Right after he said that, the camera goes to Chubb leaving the field.

That depends.. If Lamar Jackson completes 50% of his passes, only generates one TD and a few FGs, throws an INT, fumbles once, and needs a 66 yard FG on the final seconds, like he did against the Lions, when they play us.. then I give us a reasonable chance.

j/c...

No one is saying Baker played well. You've written a couple posts like posters highlighting how hurt Baker is means he didn't play like monkey poop. He did. And I agree with the poster that sai it's selfish of Baker to go out there at this level of hurt and perform like that. I'd want KS to rest him and let him heal. But Bone's point was about whether what we're seeing is 'the real Baker' or not. And that's entirely valid. And I thought you would have understand a vent when you see one, and let it be a simple stand alone statement .

And - you keep going on about Baker nearly losing the the Lions and how woeful again, but you love Lamar and seem to not want to recognize the struggles and miracle win the Ravens pulled out when they played the Lions. You are ignoring the tie last week with Pittsburgh. Lions are 0-fer ... but they are a miles better team than the Browns were during their 0-fer year and the Lions have played a few good teams well. . . . none of which takes away from the fact that Baker was terrible. But it's all relevant to the general discussion.

I think they were easing Chubb back in. If Johnson didn't do his usual excellent job with the ball in his hands, I might have stronger feelings about what we did. Chubb spent a LOT of time off the field until the very end.

IMO, this is concerning.

He's lying.

I don't know. Are you saying the league/team is lying about testing Lamar or that they are testing him and he is testing positive and they aren't doing anything about it?

There were two points in yesterday's game when I was doubting Stefanski, and by "doubting" I mean curse words. One was the bomb to Bradley on a 3rd & 1, and the other was the 5-6 snaps when Felton replaced Chubb, and not Johnson. I think Johnson has clearly earned the right to any snaps when Chubb isn't on the field, at least as long as Hunt is out. Felton is a 3rd down situational RB, but never a featured RB.

The third and one bomb was obviously a shot at a big play and then we were going to go for it on fourth down. We got a penalty and it killed us. Running Felton instead of Chubb and Johnson is an attempt to get the defense in passing down personnel and then hit them with the run. It didn't work because Felton weighs 120 pounds.

I agree with this.

Why in gods name is Felton getting those snaps instead of Johnson?

This is really annoying me. I get Felton flashes talent but he hasn’t come close to earning those touches over Johnson.

"our QB tried to give this game away."

Really?

What a bs statement. Playing with a torn labrum, a broken bone tip, bone bruise on his heel, and a banged up knee.

Wanting to play a game in 40 degree weather with with rain and wind conditions. Knowing that DPJ, Schwartz, not playing, and having Jarvis playing hurt coming in and out of the game.

Stefanski makes the decisions on who starts and when they should be replaced.

And Baker tried to give the game away?

What utter nonsense.

Speaking about " O " only ; made a list of what really bothered me about the game yesterday . One name kept jumping out " SKI " . I have no idea what happened to this O machine we had running last season ( mostly the same players ) but it came off the rails his year . I ubderstand the injury situation , but there is more to it .

And we do stuff like this all the time.

Like our first possession of the 4th quarter, we got the ball on our own 15, up by 6... had a chance to put the game away. We gained 40 yards on our first 3 plays but were still on our own 15 because of stupid penalties.. then ultimately Baker threw the tipped ball interception.

Our penalties are up 1.5 penalties and 15 more yards per game than last year...

In the first case (3rd & 1 bomb), you were moving the chains, consistently owning the LOS - there was no need for the low percentage attempt. Get the 1st down and try it on 1st or 2nd down, if you want. Maybe I'm too conservative, but I say if something's working, keep doing it until they stop it.

With Felton, Stefanski's attempt to fool the Lions effectively (and needlessly) turned a strength into a weakness, IMO.

yes

I get both sides of this... on 3rd and 1, if you know you are going for it and have confidence you can easily get 1 yard, taking a shot is a smart thing to do. You don't count on a false start, though maybe we should, it seems to happen a lot.

If you try it on 1st and 10 or 2nd and 6, and it doesn't work, then you are creating must-pass downs, which also goes against the game plan of grinding it out on the ground. Like our first drive after they scored a TD and we threw it all 3 downs... we had an illegal shift on 3rd down just for good measure but we hadn't gotten the first down so it didn't matter. I found it ironic that people complain that Stefanski abandons the run at the first sign of adversity. We were winning 13-0 based mostly on running the ball, the Lions scored to make it 13-7 and we had our first 3 pass series of the game..

If you’re gonna be out there, perform.

Other teams are also hurt. You think those fans give a damn we’re hurt? You think the other teams care were hurt?

If you are out on the field, you are sending the message that you’re healthy enough to play at a high level.

So it’s you pulling the BS. If you wanna give baker a participation trophy for playing hurt, go ahead.

Our o line, starting RB, and receivers are out their blocking and running while hurt too. I give them credit cause they actually helped this team win.

You sound like bakers wife right now.

I don't doubt you, but I think that's an example of Stefanski overthinking. It's 3rd and 1. Just pick up the first down using a RB who happens to be really darn good at picking up yards...

Keep in mind, we are not talking about throwing a bomb to DPJ or a healthy OBJ or even Jarvis. We are talking about Jamarcus Bradley. As far as the shortcomings of trying it on 1st or 2nd down, you could always not try it at all. The Lions had no answer to Chubb or Johnson. The pass game is neutered right now because your QB is hurting and his receiver corps is decimated. You can't throw consistently when your wideouts are Higgins and Bradley, and you have 3 average-to-below average TE's.

It's not Baker's decision, though. It's Stefanski's. If you're problem is with all the bravado of playing while hurt, that's a bigger issue than just Baker.

Stefanski said he was healthy enough to play. Baker said he’s healthy enough to play.

So guess what I’m basing my criticism on? A healthy enough QB who was missing wide open receivers and throwing the ugly interceptions imaginable.

And then on top of that, being a complete baby by not shaking any hands. I actually thought yesterday he went straight to the medial room to get looked at. Nope, his ass went to the locker room, got his stuff and rolled out.

If you’re cool with trash performance followed by unsportsmanlike behavior, cool.

I am not.

Not cool with any of it (the sportsmanship especially since that's 100% within his control and something we all thought was dealt with already).

Stefanski and the coaches, with the help of the docs, set the depth charts. Baker might have a say in that, but it's ultimately Stefanski's decision. So if the narrative is that Baker isn't healthy enough to start and be effective (and I think that's a PORTION of what's going on), that part falls on KS.

In general I think penalties were a bigger problem than Baker.

Which why I’m not rolling with the injury excuses.

Didn’t he have those same injuries in the bengals game? And I praised him all game long because he played great.

Same injuries against the patriots. Same injuries yesterday.

Posters are picking and choosing when they wanna blame injuries and when not. I keep the same standard across the board. If you’re on the field, what was your performance?

Just like when we lost a few weeks ago. I praised baker cause he was dropping dimes. The balls weren’t getting caught, and I dogged Landry that game, EVEN THOUGH HES INJURED.

The standard is the standard.

I think there were some new dings in the fenders from the New England game, but moreso, I think people are really underestimating the impact of the weather.

Very cold and wet all day. Both QBs were sailing balls high early; balls likely coming out early. Toward the end of the game, we say Boyle, and even Baker a couple of times, throw a few in the dirt. My immediate take was over-compensation for the slick grip and aiming a bit lower in case they sail. In the dirt is better than going high and ending in an INT. That's just the cold and wet.... but, there was wind, too. We saw how much on the missed FG. If you think he just hit a curve ball, you're wrong. His first kick for the XP damn near missed because of the same winds. I have no idea what it felt like down at the stadium, but even 35 miles south of there the winds weren't idle. People in the gameday thread tried telling that this weather shouldn't affect him because of where he was drafted, but that's utterly foolish so I just ignored that thread after that; there was nothing of value in there.

Now, combine all of that with the injuries and STILL getting the snot beat out of him more because Hance should NOT be the RT, and we saw about what I'd expect.

Ssshhhh - you are making too much sense.

I hope we shut down Baker for this weekend - let him get 2 weeks rest - his body needs it.

Speaking of Hance playing RT, I guess there's a chance that Conklin (and Hunt) return to practice this week, which would be very good news.

Getting this squad healthy again would end one of the roughest, most difficult stretches I've ever seen this team go through.

That’s fine for the first two quarters. But our QB has to adjust to account for that.

Bakers second INT had nothing to do with the elements. I’m not sure he even saw that LB sitting underneath.

And there were a couple of sideline throws he straight up missed. The elements….like come on Purp. I understand you point. But if I agree, then guess what’s also true?

We better hope we’re always on the road in the playoffs against an afc south or west team, because our QB can’t play in the elements. Just like last year in the raiders and Texans game.

The weather is only gonna get worse.

And that's part of my issue. He has at times played well with this same injury. Then at times he has stunk it up. Yet when he plays poorly all we hear about is the injuries. Here's the thing. I've never questioned Bakers physical ability. I've never questioned his toughness. But it does seem odd how people applaud his play when he does well with these injuries and then use them as an excuse when he plays badly. I mean if Baker and the doctors say he's healthy enough to play, are some saying the Doctors and Baker have no clue what they're talking about? Because it sure seems like it.

Baker was missing wide open throws. Had bad decision making. Those aren't "piling on". Those are just the facts.

So one must conclude one of two things. Either Baker and the team doctors are lying through their teeth or Baker is just playing terribly. Everyone will have their own take on that but let's not pretend that is the choice we're making depending on which stance we take on the matter.

Jet fuel can’t melt steel beams.

Ok sure he went out there and tried to give the game away.
A bit overboard for an implication. Would you not agree?

Every game and every circumstance always remains the same. I don't think so.

So everyone is hurt but is Baker who wants to give the game away?

If you actually think his play yesterday is indicative of who he is then so be it.

I see things differently. But never expect everyone to see it the same way.

I see a team that is one dimensional on offense that is inconsistent because of many factors.
The quarterback is injured. The receivers are below average as a group. There have been injuries that resulted in key starters missing games.
The coaching game plans have been lacking. In game adjustments have been poor. There have been way to many penalty's. As a team they have not played consistent complimentary football.

Their record reflects precisely who they are as a team.

Finally, Baker is capable of playing well. He also is far from perfect. He makes mistakes not unlike others. He has had great games and poor games.

No matter the quarterback. I have seen much the same from many. I know he is no Aaron Rodgers.

However, there have been quarterbacks that are not as good as Baker who have won Super Bowls. I believe with a good team around him he could also.

This team is not good enough.

Everyone said we were better without OBJ. Now that OBJ is gone they say our WR's stink? That seems pretty odd to me. I see Higgins got plenty of reps. People must think he sucks now too.

I dont see how Conklin returns. It's a 8 to 10 week injury from what I understand

Using Felton as a RB gives me fond memories of "Metcalf up the middle"

I am not everyone. I never said much about our receivers.

Besides missing games injured. When he did play what did Odell do?

Do you consider Higgins a number one receiver?

Is he getting paid like one?

How about Schwartz?

Has Jarvis missed games this year? Is he really healthy? Has he had drops when he did play?

Did DPJ play? How long as the sixth round pick last year has he played as a starter?

So what are you saying? Do we run a spread offense with dynamic star recievers in an air attack offense?

How would you grade the receivers as a group?

I couldn't count them all, but it was loud. At that point there were probably 40,000+ in the seats, so I would say 25,000?

I am not sure if they were all so much aimed at Baker as much as frustration with the entire offense and offensive game plan. Most of the time it looked like we were all wearing middle shoes yesterday.

I will take the heat about Baker.

He played a bad game. I think he owns that.

However, I disagree with a lot about what is said about Baker.

I am so glad Baker plays in an outdoor stadium in Cleveland

It maybe useful to play his press interview instead of a phrase out of context.

it can if it is on fire

Whoa

No swish, being out on the field does not mean you are capable of “performing at a high level”. Baker being out there means that in the opinion of our coaches he gives us a better chance to win than his backup does. These are the coaches who watch both practice every week. If they think baker at 70% gives us a better chance to win than case k does , then he should be out there trying his best to win. Our coaches want to win even more than we fans do.

Most of us have seen how baker performs when healthy. the people on here who are judging a wounded baker are foolish and I do not think team leadership will do that. He will be our qb next year IMO.

I think we are better off without obj. Clearly dude did not want to be here.

I think our wr core is way below nfl average.

What is it you are confused about? Both these things can be true and many probably share my opinion.

Srsly?

I am Sick and Tired!!
After 26 years, since the announcement.

That , the state of this team, going into this week!

The confidence we should all put into what kind of team is going to take the field on game day.
Does any thing they project appear that this team is even going to be fielding a team that consists of all of it's parts, working together as a well oiled machine.

Did Baker stink it up on Sunday? Yes

Does Baker stink? No

Will Baker be our QB next year? Yes

Will Baker be our QB after next year? Maybe.

Did the coaches make a mistake in playing Baker last week? No

Did the coaches make a mistake in playing him the whole game? Yes

I disagree. They should have sat him thru the bye week once the Pats game got out of hand. The shoulder's not going to heal, but the rest of those aches and pains....as well as his psyche.... would've had a month to recover.

Me too. I ride with 6. Injuries, maybe, but something is TOO wrong here. We've seen 'damn good Baker' too many times for it to be a complete fluke. Given time, maybe into next season, but I think they will fix the issues once and for all soon. You can't fix injuries.

I think our WR corps is beat up. DPJ not being out there is suddenly a big hole. I can't wrap my head around Higgins not being effective, but then again I've never really understand what our deal has been with him. Jarvis hobbled also really hurts as he's a stick-mover and a momentum guy. Njoku's suspect hands have returned somewhat.

I still like our WR corps, I just don't like their status at this point. DPJ having hammy issues that spring up midweek points to a nagging injury that he's going to be hobbled with all season. Jarvis is going to be hobbled with all the things he's dealing with all season. Njoku needs a refocus (again, but not so major this time).

I do think, based on what we know at this point, the offense is better off without OBJ. That doesn't mean we don't still have issues to work through (in the WR room AND with Baker).

I am not sure that common sense is allowed around here.

I guess in the end you are either on board with Baker or are not.

All that surrounds him. This is who he is. Baker has not changed as a person. He is the same guy who was a walk on.

He has had to battle adversity and doubt his whole career. It is what made him who he is. He has a fire inside that he goes to when people trash him.

As a player on the field in college he was shooter. 300 and 400 yard games were common.

Since being drafted to the Browns. He has been coached and asked to play in the scheme provided. Count the ways.

Is the scheme we currently run a fit? I don't know. The Browns personnel and the scheme leans on the run game. Why not when you have the OL and backs we have.

It is the strength of the talent on the roster. Currently our receiver group is below average. IMO that is pure fact.

Baker runs the plays called. AVP and Stefanski put heavy emphasis on ball protection and turnovers. That is understandable.
When you go back and look at the balance between run and pass. It is almost always 50/50.

Odell was supposed to be our number receiver. That never worked out. We don't have a number one receiver.
Jarvis is a slot guy. He is not a deep vertical threat. Schwartz is far from a being a complete receiver. Higgins is limited. He is a guy who can settle into zones but struggles to get separation in man coverage. DPJ is a young guy who is getting better. However, he is not number one receiver.

So, Stefanski and AVP try to be efficient with who they have on the roster. We use 3 TE sets. But none of the TE are in the same class as Kelce or Kittle.

We are not a passing offense like the Bucs, KC, Chargers, Packers, or the Cardinals.

My guess is this off season the offense will try to become more dynamic in the passing game. Jarvis, and Higgins, will most likely be gone. We may add free agents and draft picks to upgrade.

I do not see a realistic plan B at quarterback. IMO Berry will roll with Baker. In fact I believe he will get a new contract if he will accept their price. If not he will be on a year to year till a decision is made.

I dont think so Jarvis is too big of a motivator and producer to let go, and that would only leave us with Peoples. Who I like.

Jarvis is set to make $16.5M next season. The Browns can save $15M by releasing him next season.Unless he agrees to a significant pay cut he will not be on the roster next season. He knows this as well and in all likelihood his lack of opportunities and production this season is probably weighing on him in the back of his mind knowing he's going to hit the market after putting up a career low in numbers.

I say this as a Landry fan, but reality is reality.

I am a huge Jarvis fan. You may be right.

At the same time he will be 30 next year and is due $14.3 mil.

His cap hit goes from $15.5 mil this year to $1.5 next year and he becomes UFA in 2023.

That will be a Berry decision. I am far from a manage the cap guy.

Thirty is kind of a magic number in football.

I think this offseason will tell us more about our FO and coaching staff than either of the previous ones. Lots and lots of important decisions to make.

What I'm saying is that fans often times have a skewed view of what they are seeing. If we were better off without OBJ, and people were using the actual performances to make that point, we should be producing better now that he's gone. We're not. People's claim was this WR group and Baker produced much better without OBJ. Not that they sucked. My point was never that we were better with OBJ. My point is based on the results it seems like it really doesn't make any difference.

I'll go the same route yet in the opposite direction with Higgins. This board has gone crazy about Higgins. Saying what a chemistry he and Baker have together. How he should be getting far more playing time. Well he got it and the results are exactly what we saw.

Pre season most posters were talking about the wealth of talent we had at WR. Now they're saying they suck.

So my point is reading this board it's easy to see that the opinions have changed, and change regularly for the most part depending on which way the wind is blowing.

IMO I think the receiver group is below average.

I have stated why I believe that.

I am not letting Baker off the hook for poor performances. He has been inconsistent in his play in a number of areas.

I will take him and his faults because I don't see a good plan B.

At the same time it is clear the receiver group needs to be upgraded. Odell was fools gold. Schwatz has shown little. Jarvis is hurt and is limited in vertical routes. DPJ is a six round pick playing in his second year.

We need more. We need a real number one receiver. DPJ has promise as a number two. Felton could play slot.

Then we can get a number of guys as backups. Just my take.

I think that is a hindsight comment. Only the coach knows how he played in any practice. Obviously he didn't play well, thus the reason why I said to pull him at the half.

If it was to be a move for him to get healthy, I don't think he is getting healthy anytime soon. One also has to consider the situation. The Lions game was pretty much the season. To me, you go in with your top guns. I don't think it would have gone over well had we not played Baker and lost.

I'm with jfan on sitting 6 after the NEP game was out of reach.
I would still have played him v. DET.

Re the rest of your post: spot on.

I don't think you "are either on board with Baker or you're not". That's what's wrong with things now. People feel lines in the sand must be drawn one way or the other. That's simply not so. I'm neither for signing him to a long term, big money extension right now nor am I ready to run him out of town. We've seen both good Baker and bad Baker. I think anyone using every excuse possible to explain why we've seen bad Baker have drawn a line in the sand. I think all of those who claim Baker is solely responsible for everything we are seeing has drawn a line in the sand. There are things we know and things we don't know. Everything else is pure guesswork.

The team doctors have been clearing Baker to play. Baker says he's ready to play. The coaches all watch him throw during the week. They watch him move around and run. We all saw him running to celebrate the TD Sunday. These are things we all know. I feel it would be hard to believe that what the coaches are seeing during the week is what we are seeing on Sundays. Surely they wouldn't continue starting a QB hobbled with injuries to the point he wasn't performing at practice during the week.

For the past two weeks we've seen Baker pass for exactly one pass over 50%. Had he completed one less pass in either of those games he would have completed less that 50% of his passes. Yet the previous week against Cincy he competed 66.7% of his passes and two TD's. And anyone who watched can blame the WR's all they want, but clearly Baker's accuracy has been way off and it isn't the WR's throwing the ball.

People blamed the fact we weren't using play action enough which is Bakers bread and butter. But the stats were posted on the board show we are using play action on exactly the same percentage of plays we were last year when we were so successful.

Now even with saying all of this, I've seen the talent Baker possess. So something is certainly going on here. I've seen what Baker can do, how he can be extremely accurate. How he can motivate the team when he has the it factor going. So there's certainly no determination on my part on which Baker is the real Baker.

I actually feel my take is the best for everyone concerned in terms of Bakers future here for everyone involved. My take is let's let Baker play out at least a majority of his fifth year option before anyone signs a contract. And I think that's not only smart from the teams perspective but from Bakers as well. Here's why.....

If you were Baker, would you want to be negotiating a deal where you were performing as you are now? Would you want this season to be the last mark on your record going into contract negotiations? To me that would only serve to diminish your value and have you negotiating from a position of weakness.

If you were the team, would you want to be signing a long term deal with a QB who has performed the way he has this season?

To me it seems it would be smart on the part of both parties to take a further look. To allow Baker to heal. If in fact an off season can bring back good Baker is all is well on the part of both parties. Bakers value would increase in terms of a contract. The team would be confident in extending him. I don't see how that opinion favors either side.

You see, I'm not one who doesn't think Baker isn't a very talented and capable QB. We're just not seeing that right now and I have my reasons for not buying into some of the excuses being given. I have spelled out my reasoning for that. But I'm also not one who is trying to claim that what we've seen lately is the entire book on Baker, but it's simply a chapter in the book. I want to see what next season brings before I make any determination on Baker.

Now maybe you see that as "not being on board with Baker". I don't. I see it as a "wait and see" on Baker that wants to see how it plays out. But as I said earlier, we now live in a time where a lot of people feel that some line in the sand must be drawn.

Oh dear Lord... if the medical staff cleared Baker to play and Baker said, "Nah, I don't think I'm good enough to go, give the ball to Case."

There is a large contingent of Browns fans who would be out there storming the cowards house and screaming about how soft he is and how he is letting his team down and citing every other player who has ever played with even the most modest of injuries and stating that he just doesn't understand what it means to be a Brown and to play in the AFCN.... and some of them are on this MB... they will say in hindsight that's what should have happened, but had it happened in the moment, they would have had a completely different perspective.

Do you think the coaching staff is starting a QB who performs the same in practice all week as the way he is performing on Sunday? I would find it hard to believe that if he looked that poorly in practice from an accuracy standpoint all week they would be trotting him out there on Sundays.

How would it have gone over, had they played A Healthy QB, (Keenum), and won by a comfortable, dominating margin!
As it is now. DYSFUNCTION!!!
The coaches decision has me

The Lions game was the season??? The Ravens game is 'not the season???
I re-read, you admit Baker is not healthy, so he may be "injured"

Do you Honestly think, injured Baker, is a better option than Healthy Keenum, Today! I don't.

and given that shoulder, the shoulder alone, from two weeks ago, if he were out two weeks ago, he probably couldn't be ready to play until the Cincy game week 18 from that time.
History has shown, that playing injured players leads to compensating movements and compensating movements which cause more different injuries.

Does anybody honestly think, injured Baker is a better option than healthy Keenum, or even a healthy player like Kyle Lauletta was, when it comes to what it will take to beat the Ravens.

The Current Coaches have a History, of doing this same kind of stuff.

At this point since making the playoffs is the immediate goal, every game is the season. Which by Peens logic means no matter what, unless Baker goes out on a stretcher, we should never start Keenum.

Regardless of whatever Peen said, or whatever you think he said, or anything I've said or anybody else has said.... if, at any point, the coaching staff thinks Keenum gives us a better chance to win, none of us would be opposed to starting him. If that doesn't happen, then we all have to assume the coaching staff still believes Baker gives us the better chance.

True. Whether they're right or wrong. But I guess that sort of shoots the theory of Baker being somehow the walking wounded full of holes if the coaching staff is right.

OK post game thoughts. Congrats to Hank Fraley for his work with the Lions offensive line. He has done wonders with the talent they have, and deserves some credit.

Hank is coaching? Cool!
Somehow, I feel like I knew that, but also like I didn't know. Weird. Either way, very happy for him and hope he keeps kicking butt whenever his team isn't playing against us.

No...it means an injured Baker gives us a better chance to win than a healthy Keenum. Baker can be severely injured and still be better than Keenum.

It must seem terrible to you for our FO to spend so many millions of dollars for a back up QB that can't perform better than our "walking wounded" starter. Which is an odd thing to say because Keenums stats are much better than what we've seen the past couple of weeks at the QB position.

At this point the Browns control their own destiny, if they win every game, no team can catch them for the division.
Worst could happen is tied 12-5 with either Baltimore or Cincy while having swept them in the head to heads. Or having a 1/2 game lead on the Steelers.

If the Browns win all their games, 6-0 they win the division, no matter what anybody else in the division does, because they'd have to lose to the Browns, twice in the Ravens case, once in the steelers case, and once more in the Bengals case.

If the Browns lose or tie, even once from here on out, they won't control their destiny. But today they still do \0/

10 games ahead, win them all and they would be Super Bowl Champions. The Cleveland Browns.

As much as I would love to see that happen I wouldn't bet on it.