Keep the Forum up for 3 weeks.

I forget the other one.

A great defensive performance wasted by a putrid offensive performance

I'm done with Stefanski. His time is up as a play caller. Baker needs to sit. He is not healthy enough to function at the level needed. I'm sure nothing will change in two weeks and we will all watch Baltimore put 8 in the box while Stefanski continues to look clueless. Oh well...another wasted season in Cleveland. SMH

Good defensive show.

They shut down our run game and we didnt have an answer.

Also, our throwing plays take too long to develop.

I dont know if our guys arent open or Baker cant make a decision.

We will never get anywhere if it takes 3 seconds to throw the ball.

At least we didn't get blown out.

How discouraging is it when your defense gets 4 ints and nothin to show for it?

We might possibly have the worst passing game in the league. The Jags would've won this game with ease.

From the other thread....

Remember when we though Stefanski was the savior and Joe Woods was the problem? We have held 5 of our last 6 opponents under 17 points and we are 3-2 in those games..

My confidence in Stefanski is waning.

once again, defense holds a good offense to 16 points for absolutely nothing.

our offense is trash. the playcalling, the QB right now, and the receivers. all we have is the O line and RB's.

there's not a damn thing any stefanski or baker apologist can say tonight to excuse this L.


4 turnovers...and we lost.

I think I saw a stat somewhere on the broadcast that teams who threw 4 INT were 0-52?

Time to turn to the draft now.

Yes since 2015.

j/c...

This offense has problems. Is anybody open? Can they not get open? Does Baker not see them? Is Baker frustrated because nobody is open? People are on Stephanski, but he knew he had to throw to win. We don't have a number one receiver on this team. Where's Higgins? All he does is catch first downs.

Tough row to hoe coming up. Unless they figure out how to score, or even get first downs, it will be a lost season.

Despite a very disappointing night I must say JOK has been playing well. I think he may hold the key on how to defense the Ravens D looked pretty good for most of the game. Need the offense to start making plays.

AS a side note did it seem like we had a player down/inured about every 10 plays?

LOL! Here we go again.

4 interceptions and a loss. Actually 4 interceptions and the game was never in doubt. Sad.

Head coach and QB are underwhelming.

Hats off to Woods who I have lobbied to fire. Called a great game. Defense executed a great game.

Season's over after super bowl aspirations.

OH POST GAME THOUGHT... KEEP THE TEAM TOGETHER..
----------

I thought, Baker actually looked healthy tonight.

IN THE FIRST FREAKING HALF!!! ALL OF THOSE BAD DECISIONS BY THE QUARTERBACK WHRE HE RAN FOR HIS LIFE TOO QUICKLY,
WAS apparently afraid to stand in the pocket
and everytime he left the pocket, he only had one option. to try and complete a sideline pass that has only worked once in 3 years.

--------

next thought. Lamar Jackson, just threw up the ball for a punt tried for a completion 3 or 4 times.
on intercepted

two, for a touchdown or a completion at the 10

one more fore a drawn penalty flag???? that's right it wasn't the Pass int. penalty, it was the... take a dive for the roughing the passer penalty.

----------
The league needs to make sure the quarterback, named Lamar brown noise Jackson isn't taking a dive from a
hand tap
on a roughing the passer penalty, like a 105 pound girl! or like a European Soccer player.

I saw stefanski once again refuses to give up playcalling

I saw stefanski and the medical staff put Conklin out there when he could have treated a few more weeks. I mean he has missed so much time already mind as well wait a few more weeks. Now we are stuck with hance.

I saw receivers who get paid millions drop the ball while highins was inactive. Anyone else notice Landry has been dropping balls and making mistakes ever since his best friend was released?

Stefanski had no clue what to do after we lost Harrison and could not run the 3 tight end scheme we were deploying. Apparently stefanski didnt think to have a backup plan for that possible situation.

I saw our playoff Hope be crushed for good.

I see a long aggravating work week followed by another coming up.

We also dropped at least 4 balls that should have been caught one that would have kept a drive going. Doubt it would have made a difference.

Looking at this practically, we missed a makeable FG, Tucker never misses. And we couldn't get the right number of players on the field, COMING OUT OF A TIMEOUT, and gave them a first down that turned into a FG.. that's the basis of 6 points.

Another winnable game blown by offensive dysfunction... I'm tired of playing "Is it Baker, Baker's injuries, or Stefanski?" But in this offseason, that is the single biggest question Berry has to answer.

Mayfield needs to sit - his injuries are causing his mechanics to degrade which is making his accuracy worse. Statistically speaking, him and Jared Goff are about the same. Is that what you want out of a starting QB? Because if that's what Browns fans are okay with in regards to QB play, then Andrew Berry's going to be drafting or trading for a QB in the next year or two.

In the 3rd quarter.
The Referee that called defensive holding on What's his name. That referee needs fired, it's pretty much impossible for him to hold there.

YES. If he had receivers, the team would have wins.

We are who our record says we are, an average Football Team. Lots of Pro Bowl players with an average QB and average to below average play calling and coaching since Week 3.

The NY Giants and the NY Jets are the two worst ran teams in the entire NFL

Baker actually played great. He has a combination of the worst play caller, route designer, oc in the nfl and the worst wr Corp. the wr’s either don’t get open take forever to get open or drop the ball. Ski acted like he didn’t have a clue the defense ravens would run.

I listened to the National broadcast on radio all night. The would not stop talking about how the receivers were not getting open and baker had no where to throw.

Please cut baker so he can escape this mess.

Get ready for the draft? You guys are truly pathetic.

You mean when Collinsworth says (twice) that our biggest deep threat is a TE, Njoku, that's not normal?

Should win the game when your D gets 4 picks and only gives up 16 points.

Browns lost because...
They couldn't run the ball.
Started an injured QB that's not 100%.
No playmaking receiver that is a threat and can stretch the field.
Missed an FG.

Hold on a second. You're okay with Jared Goff level QB play? Am I reading this right? In that case - if that's the case, if I'm Andrew Berry, I'm offering Seattle 2 1st round picks and a second for Wilson and I don't think twice about it.

The fat lady sang at the closing of our playoff and post-season hopes tonight. Turn out the lights, the party’s over….

Good point there.

You forgot the Detroit Lions.

Offense was terrible. I don't know what Baker's deal is. If him not being 100% is impacting his play, then he needs to sit.

Defense got it together after letting the ravens take up half the 2nd quarter on one drive. The 12 men on the field penalty on 4th down after a timeout, was that a defensive blunder or a special teams blunder?

Then if the Passes were on target and the players drop them. ...
In the first half
the Biggest threat was Harrsion Bryant as a Wide Receiver. (He must be a better WR than Davion Davis)

oh, nevermind, they kept, Jamarcus Bradley...

They don't play in the Biased! League! offices'! Home City!!!

[Good point.

This loss was entirely on Stefanski. You have your QB getting rushed by 6 people while sending out 3 TE's being defended by DB's they can't get separation from. Who in the hell ever heard of an offense playing 1 WR? Until Stefanski gets fired or we get an offensive coordinator to call the game we can expect the same every game. There's no QB in the NFL that can have 6 people rushing him every play and expect success with only 1 WR and 3 TE's all dropping passes. Book on the Browns - rush 6 and stack the box because the receivers can't beat you and the coach cannot or won't adjust.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, you can't make your QB a game control QB and then expect him to suddenly throw 35 times to receivers who are only used to being targeted 3 times a game. When the play action is dead, the Browns receivers are incapable of getting separation. Hell the Ravens didn't even need safeties against the Browns - Baker only had enough time to throw 5-10 yard passes and his receivers either didn't have separation or dropped the ball. This loss is all on Stefanski again!

Look, having a dominate running game is awesome until you can't run. Then you have to adjust - something the Browns have failed to do this entire season and that's on Stefanski - PERIOD!

A final thought - for all you people who have the day dream that Wilson, Rodgers, or Watson needs to come to the Browns - there is no way in hell any of those guys are going to come to Cleveland to play in a game controlled run only offense to throw only 20 times a game. You're out of your mind if you believe any of those players would even consider Cleveland for a fleeting moment - NOT IF STEFANSKI IS THE HEAD COACH - no way no how!

The Lions scored more points against the Ravens than the Browns did. That's telling.

Our last possession was somewhat analogous of entire passing game..

Play 1 - Baker is under pressure immediately because Wills got beat right off the snap. He somehow manages to get the ball out of bounds.
Play 2 - Has a little time, back shoulder throw to Jarvis, either the throw was too far behind him or... Jarvis waited too long to turn back.... either way, he was well covered but it was a makeable play if Baker and Jarvis had been on the same page.
Play 3 - Hits Hooper in the hands, well covered but could have been caught and would have given us 3rd and 1, didn't catch it.
Play 4 - Hits the underneath route but tackled before the first down..

Our offensive passing game in 4 plays.

DING DING.. we have a winner!!!.. and BTW, other teams see this and will be loading the box for the rest of the season!!.. they will dare cleveland the throw.

This has to be a joke, right?

Is baker allowed to audible at all? Does he have any say so in the game plan? So many times this season it appears Stefanski has taken any sort of control out of mayfield on the field.

I rather have 2019 baker than this version.

And I told y’all weeks ago to start checking Stefanski. He either wants his QB to play this freaking conservative, or he just doesn’t trust baker.

I don’t know what it is but man…like how did we get so pass happy in a defensive game? No commitment to running the ball whatsoever, ok.

But if you don’t commit, atleast cut baker loose. Dude doesn’t want to run the rock OR throw it down field. Good lord man

BTW DCDAWGFAN, if you think about it, this is a recurring theme when the Browns offense gets the ball and needs to pass. That last series sums it up.

Wilson has played in a offense like that. In fact, he thrived when he had a solid running game: 257/407 63.1% 3,357 yds 8.2 ypa 26 TD 9 INT That's from one year. Sometimes you need a QB to go off script and make plays for your team when things aren't going right - that's what the Browns are missing compared to the other 3 QB's in their division.

The bad

Incredibly predictable play calling on O
stupidity and/or mistakes
+ 5 drops
+ Jarvis fumble
+ Baker fumble
+ Personal fouls (2)
+ Leaving Mark Andrews wide open multiple times
+ missed FG

The good

Close game despite the above
4 INT
At times we looked like we were defending them like Miami did when they beat Baltimore.
Jarvis looked pretty much back to normal
JOK was a beast
Myles got #14
a week break will help us heal, and hopefully draw up some new plays on O

j/c...

- The DPJ drop on the first drive was huge. McLaughlin missing the FG was foreshadowing at its finest.

- The Browns scored 3 points off of 4 defensive turnovers. Unacceptable.

- Stefanski was completely overwhelmed. The early 4th and 2 where the Ravens were going to punt and then ran Lamar back on the field, followed by the Browns with 12 men on the field only to be called for 12 men on the field after a timeout said it all. Just embarrassing.

- Steafanski has zero feel for the game or situational awareness as evidenced by his decision making after the Delpit INT. Run the ball, eat clock, kick the FG and be thankful to tie it up at the half after a mess of a first half. This reminds me of him going deep to Bradley the previous week on 3rd and 1 against the garbage Lions. Zero situational awareness. He's a robot. This cost the team points and possibly the game.

- Stefanski is really bad off script and seems to be searching for answers.

- Baker limped around with some pride injuries.

- Hats off to the defense. They showed up. Hat tip for you as well Joe Woods.

- Austin Hooper is stealing money. That's on Berry. Probably going to lose Njoku because Browns are stuck with bloated Hooper contract.

- Ravens went for several 4th downs early knowing that if they failed there was zero chance Baker would make them pay.

- Baker in the last two possessions could not muster a single first down. 3 plays for 5 yards and 4 plays for 7 yards. Not a winner.

- Baker is the ultimate overachiever. He's the guy on your high school team still slapping the gym floor after running the 78th straight suicide while everyone else is on the verge of puking. Charlie Hustle, but lacks true talent and is all heart. Not good enough at the professional level, definite hometown hero though.

- Season over. It was actually over after the Patriots drubbing if we're being honest with ourselves.

Cue up the tradition...

I don't think he trusts Mayfield. I really don't. I think he wants his own guy at QB. I would hope that you guys don't do something crazy like trade for Jimmy G. If you're going to go for a QB, either go big or go home.

You also noticed that there were a number of plays where the Ravens defense had loaded up one side of the field against the run and rather than check out of it, we ran right into it anyway? Like either Baker didn't see it or wasn't allowed to change it.. either way, that's a problem.

Collinsworth said, at one point, that Lamar just looks like he's always having fun out there... Baker used to look like that. Now, he celebrates big plays but other than that, he looks tight, looks like he's pressing, looks like he's trying to be too perfect, looks like he's scared to death to make a mistake.... rather than just playing the game....

That's what you get when you have a game control QB. Stefanski wants Baker to not make a mistake and let the RB's win the game with good defense. Early in the year the defense wasn't performing up to par. Now the defense is playing ball but teams are stacking to stop the run and Stefanski cannot or won't adjust. I don't believe Baker has the option to audible and with playing 3 TE's it almost eliminates any downfield plays to open up the run. The Browns are losing because of scheme and a QB that has been changed from a gunslinger into a game manager. It certainly appears that Stefanski has zero intention of changing up the offense so the rest of the season is going to be much like what we watched tonight.

I know the exact play you're both talking about. Mayfield has become a robot much like Stefanski. Zero feel or awareness for the game. Lots of self reflection examining in the off season.

I don't wish ill on anybody... but if something were to happen and Stefanski had to be sidelined and AVP got to call the plays in 2 weeks when we play the Ravens again, it wouldn't hurt my feelings. Just general curiosity, I would like to see how that goes.

JOK played a great game. He made some nice plays and his quickness was on display

j/c...

Stefanski says he needs to get better....again..it's week 12.



Followed by...

When it rains it pours. From the always controversial Dr. David Chao...

At least Stefanski realizes he needs to improve.

I dont know if coaches have a sophmore slump, but sure seems like it.

The Browns is the Browns...

j/c...

Long December....

Stefanski always says he needs to get better. He says it every week.

Meanwhile Hunts dad is now eviscerating Mayfield on Facebook. Oy vey.

Hello darkness, my old friend
I've come to talk with you again

I never thought we'd be here again this season, but here we are. Oy vey, indeed.

Man, if ever a team could write a book on caving under expectations, the Browns are it.

It extends all the way to players families. Everyone is losing their minds.

Unfortunately there were a ton of signs with Mayfield. The fact that he could never beat anyone good or put a team on his back were huge red flags. But that's not very popular around here.

I always said the team will go.as far as he could take them. Never thought his own coach would also be a detriment. Not after last year. Thought that had been solved. Now, everything is muddy again.

Have to chalk it up to an off year. Stefanski and Mayfield should be back next year. Hopefully it gets better.

I wonder if the Browns were involved in the tie game.

One other final thought. There's no way Kareems dad isn't getting info from his son. Baker is afraid to throw the ball. He's been afraid since Schwartz screwed him in week 2. Many people, fans and film guys, have been saying it.

The team sees it too.

I am so disgusted with this team. Especially the coaching staff .. We have wasted so much salary cap money these last 3 seasons which was supposed to be part of a 3 to 5 year plan to make and win superbowl. Pretty soon we will be in salary cap hell. I. Also disgusted with myself for actually believing we would win it all this year.

Some positives from my perspective:

- JOK can really, really play. He was made for the Baltimore matchup. And he’s gonna be a star if he stays healthy.

- Props to the defense for a great performance. We did all we could on that side of the ball.

- Safety play was good as well. The one miscommunication cost us (and yes, Andrews bailed them out against us again)


Some bad vibes:

- Were we not prepared for the 8 man box and cover one stuff? I mean, that’s what Wink Martindale was gonna do.

- Our WRs aren’t good. Can’t separate. No YAC. That’s a painful group to watch against teams who challenge us on the line.

- Wills has really struggled when I’ve seen him this year. Cost us last night.

- Feel bad for Conklin. Sensing it’s gonna be a career-threatening injury.

- Drops and penalties killed us. DPJ was the #1 culprit in both categories. He cost us.

- Missing a FG cost us. As did our STs (12 men on the field, poor coverage, etc)

- We are most likely done for the year.

Pssst.....Mayfield ain't the problem.

I was not a fan of drafting Baker. That being said his first year and last year gave me hope. Unfortunately, this year has not been what he, the team or the fans wanted. Beyond that there has never been a QB in the history of the NFL that could carry a team on his back BY HIMSELF. If the team is lacking talent or has too many injuries or has coaching issues then it does not matter how good the QB is. The QB cannot make a wide receiver get separation. He cannot make the line block to open holes for the running game. The failure this year lies much more on the coaching staff, particularly offensively. This does not mean that Baker does not share in the blame, he does. But this is a total team failure.

From a pregame post of mine below

KS is the problem has been all season.

j/c...

where was Higgins yesterday?

https://twitter.com/MKonSports/status/1465170915566702592?s=20

This is the NFL openly mocking the Browns. Using a jester, a clown basically, to depict them. Even the announcers were acting as if it was in bad taste.

This league has become a joke on the media side. It used to be respect was given to even the worst teams, now the shows are filled with ex players and shock jocks trash talking and giving over the top opinions.

If I'm the Haslams, I am not happy with this graphic.

I thought that comment and some others about the Browns and what we do and how we run our offense were pretty spot on.

Sometimes I think if Stefanski had Brett Favre he'd want to turn him into Alex Smith. Note, I'm not saying Baker is Brett Favre, but he's also not Colt McCoy. He had a special something when he came on the scene in that Thursday night game vs the Jets in 2018 that I believe Stefanski is coaching out of him. I also get that analytics play an important part in pro personnel decisions and draft picks, but I don't like it having such a large role on game day because it ignores the emotions of a game where emotion is required. Anyone who ever played tackle football in the mud at the park with their HS buddies should know that. The game is supposed to be fun, not some joyless exercise.

JMO

I just don't know... I was so excited for this season ! Now I just wish this season was over... Honestly just dealing with one disappointing game after another. D plays really good and the O just sucks.. Why can't the Browns field a team that plays well on both sides of the field, that can win games that they lose.

Chubb seemed off, but Hunt played well.. so where was he ?

You have receivers dropping the ball...so keep passing and again give up on the run game..

Ravens load the box with 8-9 guys and are daring Baker to beat them... Baker can't be blamed for all the drops, Baker can be blamed for his faults..

This team is not smart..not tough and not accountable !!

If Baker isn't getting it done, then why not try Keenum just to try and win the game..winning the game was and is the most important objective !

Getting into the play offs is the main goal !!

Offense failure all the way around including play calling...

I ask myself... How much more can you watch ? It's so disappointing !

It was a drive when I thought to myself I finally agreed with some of the Baker detractors on here - it was a drive where Baker had to come up and make plays and find a way to win. And then this series happens exactly as you wrote. Without a running QB who is either going to run around for 6 seconds in the backfield or run for the 1st down himself - there isn't a QB that would make a difference. Not sure if this was the same series where the throw to Hooper was on the sidelines and Baker has to throw the ball before Hoop has turned around to look for it? The defender was literally draped all over him.

Baker had one or two errant throws but other than that - he played well enough. Putting any of the loss on him is more agenda or contrived posting than reality. I mean he's out there and he owns the same amount of ownership for lack of execution as every single player on the offense - receivers, RB and OL included. But the real issue is injuries, scheme and play calling. Njoku as your deep threat is not going to be a viable offense.

The dropped passes hurt. Conklins injury didn't help either although Hance didn't play badly. Feel bad for Jack. First game back gets hurt again. Hope he's OK. Baker didn't play badly but man our O couldn't score 17 points? Tough game to watch if you are a Browns fan.

I don't care if they had 8 in the box, you have to run Chubb and Hunt - both premier RBs - more than 15 times. The running game often doesn't work early, but still takes a toll on the defense that doesn't become apparent until later in the game, when one of your premier RBs breaks one. You gotta stay with it.

Agreed all round ... the Bryant injury also hurt. I mean an offense built around a receiving core of 3 TE's is going to be largely unimpressive but when one of those pieces goes down and there is no other realistic option to turn to, I think that made a big difference too. Conklin's injury is the worst of it for sure though.

And not only that - but at some point Chubb and Hunt are good enough that when they get that one opportunity they will rip it for 40+ yards or go all the way. Very frustrating.

j/c...

Jake Trotter
@Jake_Trotter
Since Week 5, #Browns offense ranks 24th in efficiency, 25th in expected points added, 19th in yards per play, 24th in third-down conversion rate and 26th in first downs per game.

https://twitter.com/Jake_Trotter/status/1465327123971903500

I wasn't happy about the jester either... but what part about it was wrong? When I realized the reason why I was angry about that (even the Bengals had a non-zero number in that graphic), that's when I quieted down at the TV.

In what world is it acceptable to have a defense hold a tough powerhouse Offense to 16 points only to have the offense Sputter and fail. But for sure the D came to win. They sacked Jackson, they intercepted Jackson.... They pretty much did their jobs.

You can blame the entire offense, they didn't execute well. Dropped passes, Poor line play didn't help.

That first drive looked decent, then Conklin goes down and the entire O goes down with him.

I will say that the TD to the Chief was a thing of beauty...

In order to win big games against quality opponents; you must make the plays that are there.

If you do not; then you will lose.

First series after big gains to Jarvis; Baker makes a perfect throw to DPJ. He drops the pass. If he makes the catch it is first and goal to go at the ten yard line.

The end result a field goal is missed - no points.

First down throw to Felton. He looks for the hit and drops the pass.

Hooper fails consistently to make contested catches. He dropped two.

The Ravens have Justin Tucker. He wins close games. He doesn't miss.
=======================================================================

Game plan. Clearly the Ravens were prepared to stop the run game of the Browns.

What was the Browns plan to counter?

If they put 8 guys in the box; there must be open space somewhere. Why were there no seam routes in the center space in the Browns plans?

Or, why no adjustments when it became obvious what the Ravens where doing?

I wish I had an answer.

Four turnovers and the Browns score ten points.
===============================================

We are not good enough. We have players that are overrated. One is Jedrick Wills. He plays to high and gets beat in pass rush.

Andrew Berry is a good young GM. However, once Hubbard was gone. We had no backup tackle. Blake Hance is a second string guard playing out of position. He is a far cry from Conklin. Berry drafted Hudson. He has done nothing and looked over matched when he played. So, Hance was forced to play tackle. That
did not cut it.

Stefanski is a good young head coach. However, he still lacks experience. It was exposed in the loss to the Patriots.
Yesterday he was out coached again. Harbaugh has the experience and that should be expected. I am not condemning Stefanski. Just stating facts.

We are not good enough to make the playoffs. We have a good core of players. We are not a complete team.

When we beat the Lions I knew this season was over. Looking at the final six games after that win. In my heart I felt we would be lucky to win three.

Great expectations can be misleading. I felt for sure we would be a playoff team. Thought we had a good chance to run the table.

We are not what I thought we would be.

Some of the comments on here crack me up. "Mayfield is afraid to throw." The dude has been changed into a game manager. Game managers don't take risks. Baker is not going to throw to guys who have not gotten separation. Watch the damn game - our receivers were never open. When Baker does throw he gets dropped passes - 5 by my count last night.

Now to Stefanski - when a team is putting 8 in the box to stop the run you have to make them pay by passing the ball. When you play 3 TE's all basically in the box or close to it you now have 10 defensive players in the box with 1 on 1 with your only WR. Your QB has no option for an audible and the TE's are now in such heavy traffic they couldn't get separation if they wanted to. Slants are out, hooks are out, screens are out and your QB now has about 2 secs to throw because it's a constant rush of 6 outmanning the o-line. A high school coach knows that to make the defense play honest you must spread the field and make them pay for putting 6 in the box. Putting only 1 WR on the field proved to the Ravens the Browns wouldn't spread to make them change. JOK can be a threat but he still has catching issues and is a waste on short must need routes and separation. Does Baker have some fault - absolutely but he's also running the scheme Stefanski has instilled which is a game manager QB. If you're going to scheme a run heavy offense, you better be able to keep the defense honest by passing and making them pay if they cheat on the run. Hey dummy, you can't do that by lining up your offense that allows the defense to have 10 in the box.

The Browns are 23rd in the league in pass attempts with 360. That's currently 110 less pass attempts than Tampa Bay and the Bucs have only played 11 games. Now it's true that the Browns are 2nd in rushing but what happens when you can't run? The Browns are 14th in the league in net yards per pass attempt yet they won't throw to keep the defense honest. Add to that fact that only Las Vegas and Dallas have been penalized more than the Browns and you have a formula to lose.

I go back to the Arizona game that was the most telling game as to what Stefanski's scheme is in reality. When your losing 20-0 five minutes into the 2nd quarter and you only throw 19 times from that point forward you have sent a clear message to the league that your QB will not be throwing. Remember, the Browns lost that game 34-14 and were never in the game or a threat to be competitive. Since that game, the Browns have scored more than 17 points one freaking time! Including the Arizona game, the Browns have now went 7 straight games with less than 225 yards passing. The Browns are never going to win consistently with any QB who only throws for an average of 207 yds per game like the Browns have so far this season. Finally, I have some swamp land in Florida for you if you think for a moment that a Rodgers, Wilson, or Watson is going to want to come to Cleveland to throw for 200 yds per game. You honestly must be smoking something if you believe those QB's would ever agree to play in the Stefanski scheme - IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!

True... but isn't the running game doing what it's supposed to do? The Ravens were so afraid of our run that they were crowding the LoS all game. Talking heads wouldn't stop about it. That's what the running game is supposed to do so you can make them pay with big throws. We even saw glimpses of this late in the game (couple throws to Landry on 2nd down). I'm normally one to harp on not running it enough, but even I could see that those big run plays were really hard to come by. Chubb and Hunt were working hard and earning each and every yard (had a bunch of really impressive efforts to get 5 yards when they were hit right at the LoS). The Ravens had no subtlety in their D... they were challenging the Browns to beat them through the air all game, and especially so in the 2nd half. That's also what the run game was supposed to set up.

So why couldn't we do it? From the little we could see, I saw a LOT of covered receivers. I need to fire up gamepass (I'm actually going to do it this time). If the receivers couldn't get open in this game, then I think I have my answer as to our issues with the passing attack.

One thing that I think we can all agree on, though... I'm sick and tired of watching Felton run every way but forward on returns. That dude still thinks he can jitterbug/backyard ball his way through a punt return and just gives yards back to the kicking team every time. It's so irritating to watch.

I was wondering about the no-separation and our 3TE sets... but then wouldn't Njoku shine in that situation?

I read on another forum that Jake Burns already has film up showing receivers we're open. Don't know if that's true or not.

And if it matters Kareems dad is saying the same thing. Unless he and his son are estranged I'm pretty sure that's not an independent thought.

Baker isn't 100% culpable in the Browns issues and losses but he's a huge part. All we can hope for at this point is that Stefanski and Baker take the offseason to improve.

Thats about all we got at.this point. But four years in and Baker hasn't shown that he can be anything more than occasionally slightly above average. There's not a lot of hope there.

The WR's we have are OK if we had 1 or 2 others that can stretch the field. That should be a priority this offseason along with a run stuffing DL and another LB or 2. JMO

j/c...

The Browns have now scored a total of 7 points in the 4th quarter in their last 7 games. Not ideal.

Looks like Landry is open coming across the middle for first down. Baker double clutches, defender gets on Landry and Baker takes the sack. Pause video at the 7 second mark or go frame by frame. Feels interior pressure and afraid to take the hit? Second guessing?

https://twitter.com/jake_burns18/status/1465305888307224579

Here's a still shot...

Problems on offense: (starting up front and working back)

Offensive scheme: The 3 TE is not working as a close to full time scheme. We need receivers who can make plays in the pass game.

Game coaching: The offensive coaching is a problem. No adjustments to counteract the opponent's schemes.

OL: Too many jailbreaks, penalties, and overall problems. The injury to Conklin didn't help.

WR: Not on the field enough. Too many drops. Period. Not much separation on many pass plays.

QB: Baker had a rough game. Part may be drops, part may be too many plays behind the sticks, but he is also off. I do think that he is trying, but something is just not working.

RB: Sure we didn't have a ton of runs, but our RBs averaged only 2.4 yards/carry. Not acceptable. Like with Baker, there were others contributing to the difficulties here.

FB: Where was our FB anyway? Oh yeah, inactive. Why?

This entire offense is broken. It needs a massive overhaul. Injuries haven't help, but the scheme is broken. We need a massive overhaul coming out of the Bye.

No, he's just one of them.

He is given his current health status. When healthy, the kid can play. Stefanski is THE problem with this team right now. Someone in the front office NEEDS to act for the benefit of the TEAM. NOW.

The fact that an offensive strategy is built around THREE TEs is simply moronic given the rules that favor the offense in this era. Stefanski should summarily be fired for that reason alone. SMH

They BOTH need to be on the field at the same time. ALL THE TIME. You can certainly run Hunt out of the slot and create mismatches. It's not rocket science. Geezus, Stefanski really is THAT stupid. SMH

Higgins the week before against Detroit. 53 plays which was 72% of all offensive snaps. He had one catch for 17 yards on five targets.

https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2021/...sive-snap-counts-stats-and-notes-week-11

If you look at his results over the past five games they are dismal. He hasn't been producing. Unless of course the problem lies elsewhere.

This is my assumption, but I want to see for myself. I've read that we have WRs running open like crazy and I've read our receivers have the DBs on them like white on rice. Specific plays and stills (like above) are only somewhat helpful in that they don't tell the full picture of the game(s). Message board and tweets aren't good for showing what's going on over the whole game. Gotta just carve out time and go to the source.

I agree with you. What I find much harder to believe is the claims that it's the HC's fault that Baker double clutches the ball and hesitates. What I disagree with is it's the HC's fault that Baker often times looked like he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn against Detroit in last weeks game.

I do understand the frustration fans feel about the three TE sets, but that brings up questions I haven't seen addressed. If you know you're going to face 7 and 8 men in the box, doesn't it make sense to have those TE's in to help block on your run plays and to run the short routes to make it easier to get rid of the ball quickly?

Much like yourself I'm not clear on what the issue is in regards to whether our WR's were closely covered in last nights game. I don't know if there were open WR's Baker was just missing or whether the Ravens coverage was just that good. As far as the dropped passes are concerned, every QB in the league has people dropping passes. I'm not sure how people can keep blaming everyone else for Baker passing for below 50% last night.

No excuse can be made. We scored 3 points off of 4 picks. Those were scored because we got the ball in field goal position.

The entire O sucked, and it pretty much has for a while now.

Stefanski gave up on the run. When you have the best running back duo in the league, you don't bail on them with only 17 carries the whole game.

Don't know to many coaches that would let their QB play with as many injuries as Mayfield has. No one can say he isn't tough and wants to win.

Kevin's play calling has been terrible all year long and he needs to give someone else a shot at it.

We have 5 games left to play and I am not to sure with the way this team is playing that we can win any of them.

I feel bad for the Defense because they played lights out for nothing most of the game. You get 4 turnovers, you should win the game.

- I haven't read the other posts yet and I have stayed off social media. I am sure I will see a lot about Woods needs to go and the defense is hurting us. It was said after the Pittsburgh game when we held them to 15 points, and we had seven drops and a Landry fumble. Here, we held them to 16 points and had 4 interceptions. I have zero issues with the defense in this game. They did their job and held Lamar in check.

- Their one TD was complete crap. Horribly blown coverage, I cannot believe the TE was that wide open in the end zone with Lamar backpedaling like that. I say the TD was crap because of the blatant block in the back on Clowney that was not called. It was in the open.

- When they made that phantom roughing the passer call on Clowney, which the even fan-boi announcers did not agree with, as well as the rules expert they talk to, I went to bed. Much like the Detroit game when the refs allowed Baltimore to snap the ball on the game winning FG 3 seconds after the clock ran out, that they were not going to let Baltimore lose the game.

- I know, refereeing is bad all around. Really bad calls and non-calls in every game. I agree with that. But I do not agree that, at the end of the day, it all cancels out and there are not teams who benefit more from poor officiating than other teams do.

- Stefanski needs to stop calling the plays. The snap to Landry play really changed the tone of the game. If you try too hard to show you are the brightest guy in the room, then you're going to prove that you are not.

- The Baker fumble ... WTF? No one even touched him. Hunt was there for the screen. A first down, at least. Ball just comes out.

- I am tired of seeing Felton on the field. Guy does nothing. He is not even a decoy because no one fears him.

- Baltimore took away our run. The OL and Baker took away our pass.

- I was really pissed when Garrett shook hands with Lamar after that playground touchdown. Seriously? Clowney slammed his helmet into the turf in frustration and Garrett is singing kumbaya with the QB. I lost some respect for Myles. Shake hands after the game, not during.

- Once again, there is always next year.

So it's your contention that you keep running the ball when the opposing defense stacks seven and eight men in the box? Well alrighty then.

Maybe run more none the less.

brings to mind the term "live by the sword, die by the sword.

No doubt you need to try to find a balance and have the ability to pivot from time to time, but it's not like our passing game was doing much.

Quick to bring up that Baker was under 50% completion rate last night but no mention of the massive pass rush he faced 75% of the time. No mention of defensive players coming at Baker untouched due to missed assignments, outmanned, or just plain beat at the point of attack. Drop passes occur I agree, with the Browns they always happen in critical situations but 5 in one game?

This is what I see, people may scream that receivers were open but where were they in the progression? Running free as the third or forth choice when your QB has 2 seconds or less to throw is immaterial. When the defense has 6-10 in the box, it becomes almost impossible to read which ones are dropping back or coming. Seeing one drop back that gets in the primary receivers route would be cause for a double clutch, if your second is covered and six are coming there's no time to find receivers 3 or 4. Secondly, I have never heard a WR or TE ever admit that they were covered so 50% of this BS is just that, BS!

This is where scheme must be adjusted. The first time the Ravens put 6-8 in the box the adjustment needed to be made to spread the offense. You absolutely must get the defense to play honest. Stefanski's inability to adjust and sticking with the 3 TE set allowed the defense to stack the box and only have to defend for 2 seconds. Run game stuffed, huge pressure on the QB, 2 seconds to throw and no need for safety's to play it honest. There's no QB in the league that would be successful playing that type of offense without some kind of adjustment. Remember, Stefanski has taken a gunslinger and turned him into a game manager that's sole purpose is to not make mistakes. This leads to hesitation from your QB and results in a lot of dump offs as the safe play. Nobody wants to see a bunch of interceptions from a QB that doesn't know how to protect the ball but if you don't practice 3 and 4 WR sets and what to do during blitzes or cover two then you end up with situations that we are watching - a poorly prepared team running a scheme that makes the Browns one dimensional. I will repeat, the Browns are clearly a one dimensional with a passing offense averaging 207 yds per game through 12 weeks. That is on Stefanski - not Baker and until it changes the Browns will struggle.

I was thinking the same thing. Only a fool would keep trying to run it with 8 in the box. The problem, IMO, is that Kevin doesn't spread out the formation. Thus not omly are the rushers in the box, so is every other defensive player. Trying to read that presnap has got to be hard. Also,just as in the Steeler game, Conklin goes down and Hance comes in against their best pass rusher. Stephanski gives him no help, letting him struggle and get beat constantly. For God's sake, their is three TEs on the field, put Hooper over their and let him block or chip or something.

Baker at times was letting the ball go quickly, and it seemed to be working. Then, he goes into his double clutch mode. I still stand by the thought that when he steps up in the pocket, he can't see down field. The timing of this offense is horrible, and that is compounded by not having a #1 receiver on the team.

I hope they self coach during the bye, and see the obvious mistakes they are making running this scheme. Baker thrives moving the pocket and bootlegging, yet they have him standing in the pocket, where he seems to hesitate to let the ball go. This offense has become so predictable, it is embarrassing.

If they don't change the scheme a little, they will have a hard time winning another game. The tape is out there, and teams will use it.

It's at that point that your run game has set up your passing game. Baltimore was schemed to stop Chubb at all costs in the second half, so if you can't pass on that....

What I don't understand is that, even though we're taking WRs off the field in our 3TE sets, the guys we have out there aren't exactly plodding OLinemen. Hooper is a pass-catching TE (when he doesn't let the ball clang off his hands). He's certainly not a "blocking TE". Njoku is a matchup nightmare when he's sent out on a route. If the defense is set up in 'run D mode', why can't we tee off on them with Njoku? If he was also dropping passes that would be one thing....

I think part of the reason for giving up on the run is because KS is only looking at it from the next play perspective. When he's busy calling plays, he's not able to see the bigger picture of what is happening, only focused on finding something that might work next.

Just to balance things out slightly....

Jarvis had 6 receptions for over 100 yards. His average was just under 20 and his long was just under 40.

They talked about getting him more involved, and they did.


Chubb and Hunt ran hard when they got the rock. It was an uphill battle for the ball carriers.


Hance is a guard... so his performance this year (limited as it is) is actually pretty impressive.

Baker was decisive in brief streaks last night.

j/c...

Snippet from Jason Lloyd's article. Not good.

The Brown have been shut out in their last three fourth quarters and six of their last seven. Mayfield is the 33rd-rated passer in fourth quarters this season in a 32-team league and only Jameis Winston has a lower completion percentage in fourth quarters among qualified passers than Mayfield (52.2 percent).

None of it is good enough and all of it is predictable by now. It wasn’t even surprising the Browns went four-and-out on their final drive of the night. With the season at stake and 1 minute, 10 seconds left, the Browns couldn’t even generate a first down, much less a touchdown.

That has always been pretty much Bakers bread and butter. Three or five step drop then release. That's not necessarily a #1 WR issue. That's more of a slot WR/TE/RB duty as anything. I'm not sure why he's doing so much of the double clutching and hesitation. But it's killing him.

Baker is at his worst against great competition and later in games minus a few outlier games.

I said at the beginning of the year the team will go as far as the QB can take them. Baker is a well below average quarterback who's weak mentally but plays with above average talent. The result is .500 and no playoffs.

It's always about the quarterback.

In terms of skill positions, who, on Baker's side of the ball is clearly above average besides our two RBs (who are never on the field at the same time)? At WR we have Landry, who's pretty good when healthy, and a group of journeymen. We have 3 slappies at TE.

One thing that occurs to me is a minor, but potentially important: Baker learned to play "up on his toes" last year, That gave him extra height, and extra vision. He has had a leg/foot injury, and that may be affecting his ability to do so. I would watch the game to see if that's the case, but I have no desire to subject myself to that.

One other thought:

How do we have 12 men on the field for a PR ..... twice?

Coaching is a problem this season, and I fear that it's contagious. Stefanski needs to swallow his pride and give up the p[lay calling, so he can handle the bigger picture.

J/c

Felton had one snap LOL that was a hell of a contribution from him last night.

In terms of Baker: IMO he IS a problem but he isn’t the ONLY problem. Wills was garbage (and has been). Our WRs are garbage (and have been). Hooper ain’t worth his salary, not even close. Then add in penalties, drops, etc.

Now, if Baker was a true blue chip QB all of that stuff gets minimized. But he’s not.

As ridiculous as that sounds, it might just be the most reasonable idea put out there.

I've never seen so many excuses made for one guy. Not one person is arguing that maybe Stefanski is bad because of Baker. You know like maybe defending and propping Stefanski up and finding any reason to exonerate him? But the lengths people.will go through to exonerate Baker is outlandish. My recent favorite is he forgot to play on his toes. Lmao...my goodness.

Baker blew his wad when he wasn't clutch against KC. It was a perfect last chance to prove to all the doubters and the team and himself he could be that guy. And it's been downhill ever since. He lacks confidence and the mental grit to get the job done. His teammates sense that. They are quitting on him and abandoning him. Their families are stoking the fires. Media is laughing at him.

I can't wait to hear the new ones. Maybe he changed his pre-game meal and it caused indigestion.

I said many many months ago that the lack of clutchness was an issue. It's now.rearing it's ugly head into a complete organizational meltdown.

I agree 100%

lol, I knew you would be the one to come unglued after the toes comment.

Some people understand that it's probably more than 1 problem going on with this team right now... as well as a combination of those problems.

j/c…

Just curious, but why doesn't Baker get them into a better play? What exactly is he doing at the line?

Jake Burns
@jake_burns18
There is no "change this play to something entirely different" audibling from Baker.

There are two plays given at times (you will hear him yell CAN and REWIND on those accordingly but it is strict to those two plays).

The reasoning behind the "why" for this is unknown.

https://twitter.com/jake_burns18/status/1465336374337355779

Is this a Jared Goff situation where the coach doesn’t trust the QB?

We have a winner. Give the man a prize - another crappy season of Browns football!

It looks to me like the coach doesn't trust either of his QBs, seeing as how he won't play Keenum even when Mayfield is at 50-60%. He pretty clearly doesn't trust his OC to call plays either, even though a case could be made that the team needs more of a CEO approach from the HC.

Who is our Matthew Stafford?

Stefanski ego is a major reason we wont make the playoffs. At this point mind as well give playcalling to pelt. Wont happen though.

Run Chubb and Hunt on the outside edges. When it is one on one they are hard to tackle. If they are stacking the box you don't call plays between the tackles. Kevin gives up on the run almost every game. Just go back in past games and look at the run plays compared to throwing plays and you will see.

Given our lack of high-end WRs and TEs, I'd like to see a lot more of Chubb and Hunt on the field together. In addition to the increased offensive firepower, one of them could help in pass pro when needed while the other went out as a receiver. With Blake Hance at RT, we'll need some help there.

Jared Goff.

J/c

I think those who are saying that Stefanski knows Baker’s limitations and doesn’t trust him are spot on. I bet if you gave Stefanski truth serum his thoughts on Baker wouldn’t be positive

Oh no

We are what our record says we are. An average Football Team with an average QB and an average head coach whi says every single week that he needs to get better. Reminds me of the daily Pat Shurmur "we battled" crazy talk. It has gotten very, very old

What would you like him to say?

I'm handing over play calling duties to Van Pelt

“I’m handing over play calling duties because the QB can’t throw the ball accurately.”

I don’t know how well that would go over.

Not the Browns but still applies.

If Stefanski really thinks that then he owes it to the team, himself, and his staff - not to mention the fans - to replace the QB with his $7M backup QB. But somehow he hasn't done that, and apparently has no plan to do that.

For who ? I would imagine the top two RB's in this league would be happy

So disappointed in our offense.... defense played one of their best games of the season... offense was awful.... sad Conkilin got hurt... Baker was decent at times.... we had zero running game and really gave very little effort to rush... pathetic offense.... hope it's better after the bye

After the bye the ass whippings begin.. In the whole season..How many times have the Browns played as a whole team ? When the O and the D played together as a good unit to win ? one maybe two ? One against the Bengals the other against the Bears...

Yes indeed we are not the only team to drop passes. Is there a box score from last night that shows how many passes Baltimore dropped??

A couple of thoughts about this year’s Browns team versus last year’s team.

Impressions, perhaps supported by some facts.

Last years team had better discipline and a lot fewer penalties.

I think KS has become enamored with the three tight end set. This can be can be defended and minimizes any big play opportunities.

I also think KS is trying to protect a wounded QB.

KS is more conservative in play calling because the defense is better.

Yes, the defense is better, but the team is not better.

There were games last year were the Browns could beat you through the air or on the ground… This year, it falls apart if the ground game is shut down.

I do not miss Sendejo. He was the most memorable player from last years defense.

I honestly believe that the Browns do not blitz enough to keep other teams honest and this years defense is very predictable with better players making the difference.

Last year the Browns had oline injuries to Teller and Tretter, they subbed and played on… This year Wills and Conklin and they changed the plan to cover… Maybe the smarter move is to move the guard to tackle, so the tackles are not as exposed.

Last year our schedule was much easier than this year.

one thing that we aren’t used to: knowing this is our window and we’re wasting a season.

The good news: if we finish 3/4th in the division we’ll have an easier schedule next year. It’ll look something like this:

Baltimore x 2
Pittsburgh x 2
Cincinnati x 2
@ Atlanta
@ Carolina
New Orleans
Tampa Bay
@ Buffalo
@ Miami
NY Jets
New England
@ Houston
Denver
@ NY Giants

Yep. The only variants could be the Giants and Denver. That just depends on the final standings of each as compared to ours, though I might not see it as all that much easier.

What else can it be? Honest question.

Start with fans don't know.

It is always greener on the other side.

Seattle is losing. They are last in many categories. Wilson? Is he really healthy? He is playing. He wants to play.

He is either not healthy or he stinks.

Sound familiar? Let's go get Wilson that will fix everything.

Honestly, I have grown tired of the talk. I thought going into this season we had a shot at a Super Bowl.

When your expectations are so high. Anything less is a disappointment. One thing is certain you can never figure in injuries.

They happen. They happen to every team. It is a matter of luck on how bad they will be.

I am over the Baker talk.

I want only one thing and that is to win a Super Bowl. I don't care who we have or how it gets done. I am an old man now. I was in 11th grade in 1964 when the Browns won the title. It wasn't even called the Super Bowl.

I mean damn how long should it take. I have done my suffering. I have paid enough dues. I have seen so many quarterbacks they are all looking the same. They have all failed. So has ownership, GM's, head coaches, and all the players.

Our window started the moment we drafted Baker. Which is why it was such a disaster to keep Hue. And then Freddie compounded the problems.

Agreed. I was in the 2nd grade in 1964 and wasn't even a Browns fan yet. After we won the championship in 1964 no Browns fan then, or for that matter any football fan, would have believed that for the next 57 years the Browns would not have won another one. Kind of ridiculous really.

I don't want him to SAY anything, I want him to fix it so he doesn't have to keep saying it.. He doesn't get paid $3.5 million a year to say the right things in press conferences, he gets paid that much to solve problems and put a winning football team on the field.

If that means changing up the game planning, so be it.
If that means giving the play calling to somebody else, so be it.
If that means putting Keenum in, so be it.

Tomorrow is December 1, since September 26 we have scored more than 17 points exactly... twice. Oddly enough, both of those times were against pretty good teams and we scored over 40 points...

We've been held under 100 yards rushing 4 times in our last 7 games... Baker hasn't completed more than 53% of his passes in any of the last 3 games after routinely being in the high 60s and 70% range almost every week before that...

I don't know if it's Bakers injuries or if the inability to pull the trigger on throws is in his head, if other teams have just figured us out and the book is written on how to stop us, if it was the loss of Kareem Hunt for 5 weeks, if it's injuries to the OL, if it's our weak WR group... I don't know. I would suspect it's some combination of a lot of things but it's Stafanski's job to know, and to overcome those obstacles... yet what I see on the field every week looks remarkably like the week before and the week before that and is equally ineffective. Then he comes into the press conference and says "It's on me".. well, yea. Until I see you try something different, then I have to assume that you think what you are doing is the best we got... and it ain't working.

0.75 penalties per game difference between last year and this year through 12 games. 7.083 per game in 2021 and 6.333 per game in 2020. I wouldn't call that a lot fewer penalties. .

One thing that’s stood out to me about penalties: this year we seem to have FAR MORE alignment/pre-snap penalties than last year.

Last year I would be pretty astounded at how often we’d shift, motion, change personnel, etc and never have those penalties. This year it seems to happen MUCH too often.

I went to nfl2schedules com or something future schedules 2022 and this is what they said.
All division games, yep
@ ATL, and @ Car, yep
New England at home yep

Saints in Cleveland
Buccaneers in Cleveland
NY Jets in Cleveland
@ Miami, @ Buffalo those set in stone

(An AFC WEST team, ) in Cleveland (Denver, or raiders, or LAC, or KC)
@ (An AFC South team), (@titans, or @jaguars, or @ouston or @colts)
and
@ (An NFC East team), (@dallas, or @hiladelphia, or @washing ton, or @ nygiants)
That equals 17 games for the Browns in 2022
In 2022 the Browns 6~ road, AFC games will be...
@ Miami, @ Buffalo, @Pittsburgh, @Cincinnati, @ Baltimoer, and @(an AFC south variable team).

There won't be an easier schedule next year, all the teams in the NFL will get better,
The Texans and Lions will have a lot of draft choices to get better, the Jaguars and Jets will have 2nd year instead of rookie QBs.
The only team that might get worse next year than this is the Seahawks.

If you think you are waiting on, or living in, a window you are not going to win anything.

How are the Browns going to win anything, if they spend 90% of all the weeks of the last two seasons, in 3rd or 4th place in their own division. They only got into whatever place they finsished in, in the very last week of last year.

If they don't learn who the Browns are, and how to win as the Browns, I don't think they will win anything in any of our lifetimes, they could easily go another 25 years with no more success than the last 25.

You can't think like that, it's a defeatist attitude.

Whatever the reasons are, this Offense plays with ZERO passion or emotion. They're going through the motions. There's no... creativity. It's like the offense as a while is depressed... trying to make it through the game with cement shoes on.

-Harrison, I don't know why he got so much love but I'm fine moving on from him.
-Delpit... there's a lot to like but he still has this habit of getting caught flat footed
-Overall the secondary as a whole played well. Have to give Joe Woods credit for how he called this one.
-JOK... Probowler before his 3rd year. The speed, the talent.. and he still makes sure he tackles how he should
-Clowney... man, he worked his arse off all night. I don't think we can ask more from him than what he's been giving?

Not only did he work his butt off, he was visibly angry during and after the game.

Meanwhile, Myles is playing smoochy with Lamar during and after the game.

We may want Clowney for more years, but he may not want us.