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It's the "We couldn't beat the Detroit Lions" bowl tonight... Go Vikings!

The Steelers SUCK AGAINST the Vikings Thread!!!

Steelers got a zebra favor already. They clearly snapped the ball on 4th down after the play clock hit zero.

And the dittsburgh loser kicker missed a field goal. So. well done still scoreless.
Beating Pittsburgh involves keeping them scoreless in the 1st quarter

I’d trade our entire WR room and Njoku for Jefferson.

The Steelers are getting punched in the mouth. It’s beautiful.

The Steelers sucking on day or night football is a thing of beauty. Vikings leading 16-0 missed extra point.

Ben just got blindsided. Absolute crushing hit.

Love it.
I hope he retires physically battered and with a playoff miss.

watching this game so far, how the hell did we only score 10pts and lose to the steelers??? Boggles my mind

Pittsburgh is getting crushed, but Cousins is the definition of mediocre.

Ben gets rocked again. Now he’s jawing at Tomlin.

that mustard puke team has never looked better (worse)! roethlisburger just got sacked a 4th time, and my brain huurts.
Vikings lead 23-0 aww, the Viking,s offense is blowin it. my brain hurts.

The steelers look atrocious tonight. As bad as the Cincy game

watched the first half on and off... great first half!

Will probably not watch any more tonight

Originally Posted by jaybird

watched the first half on and off... great first half!

Will probably not watch any more tonight

I'm not missing a minute of this as long as it continues this way. I hate the Steelers. This is a good time for me.

Watching Sheldon Richardson sack Ben on third down at about the Steelers 5… color me happy.

this has all the makings of a stillers comeback

What a STUPID throw by Cousins.

WTF is up with Ben just chucking it up and the receivers catching it

Love the loss on a drop.

Never a doubt

Originally Posted by boofers20

WTF is up with Ben just chucking it up and the receivers catching it

Lamar and Ben both live off the ‘chuck it ups’ and the pass interference calls that they inevitably get called in their favor.

Does Tomlin murder Claypool in the locker room, on the plane ride home, or in his sleep?

His need for attention after his catch cost them precious seconds.

Man, that game gave me flashbacks.

I DIDN'T WATCH THE LAST 2 MINUTES!!!!
If the Vikings hadn't won....
I wasn't going to watch another NFL GAME THIS YEAR, ANY FREAKING GAME ANY TEAM

I'M SOOOO TIERED OF THIS FIXXXXXED LEAGUE IT'S WORSE THAN THE WWE WRESTLING

WOW.

Went to bed at the half 26-0.

Wake up and the receiver gets blasted in the enzone after the catch to have a chance to tie the game.

Well everything lines up for the Browns.

Can we seize the opportunity?

I can only hope.

Originally Posted by PortlandDawg

His need for attention after his catch cost them precious seconds.

52 had to grab the ball out of his hands to get it to the ref, who dropped it. Then Claypool walks to the line jawing at someoene. If he would have just handed the ball to the ref and ran back to the line they would have been able to run 1-2 more plays, costing ben the chance to have the biggest regular season comeback in NFL history.

I was waiting for a flag on that last play to makeup for that crap call against Fitzpatrick. I love watching the steelers lose.

It's funny because when Claypool burst onto the scene I really thought he reminded me physically and ability/style wise of Josh Gordon (the good JG) .... seems like they have more in common than just physical ability and skills. What a tool ! Josh for his one season was as good as any WR I have ever seen - and Claypool isn't that, but he still reminds me of JG sometimes.

What the heck is Claypool doing? Not that I was rooting for them, but he seems to be going down the diva track like Brown/JuJu.

The Vikings reminded me so much of us last night. That game sparked so many memories. Glad they pulled it out.

Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life

What the heck is Claypool doing? Not that I was rooting for them, but he seems to be going down the diva track like Brown/JuJu.

I would guess it stems from drawing attention to oneself rather than focusing on the job at hand. Might be some JU JU rubbing off.

Actually, that reminded of the Jets OT playoff game when Webster Slaughter catches the ball around the 2, right at end of regulation and he and Clarence Weathers are high fiving and dancing around wasting 10-15 seconds of clock time. Fortunately, Bernie kept his head and told them to line up so he could spike it.

General reply/post... and fyi

https://twitter.com/TheOBR/status/1468947820635996172

Someone broke down who we should/shouldn't root for regarding the push to the playoffs.

Originally Posted by FORTBROWNFAN

Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life

What the heck is Claypool doing? Not that I was rooting for them, but he seems to be going down the diva track like Brown/JuJu.

I would guess it stems from drawing attention to oneself rather than focusing on the job at hand. Might be some JU JU rubbing off.

That is likely. PIT seems to have a steady stream of d-bag WRs.

I agree. If we were down 29-0 we'd have no chance of winning. I couldn't believe how the Steelers came back and the game came down to one the last play. Baltimore does the same thing. I guess that's one of the differences between winning organizations and losing ones.

Originally Posted by oobernoober

General reply/post... and fyi

https://twitter.com/TheOBR/status/1468947820635996172

Someone broke down who we should/shouldn't root for regarding the push to the playoffs.

I'm going to root for the BROWNS to BEAT THE ravens, otherwise it won't matter. (and the other things change every week anyway)

Originally Posted by CapCity Dawg

The NFL PIT seems to have a steady stream of d-bag WRs.

Originally Posted by PortlandDawg

Originally Posted by boofers20

WTF is up with Ben just chucking it up and the receivers catching it

Lamar and Ben both live off the ‘chuck it ups’ and the pass interference calls that they inevitably get called in their favor.

So does Mahomes. I'm not saying you should make a living throwing 50/50 balls up in the air but sometimes, you do have to trust your WR to go up and make a play...

If Baker did that all the time, he'd get called crap for it, lol

By contrast when he never does it the claim gets made that "he isn't allowed to".

I've never seen that.

I've seen posts where he can't change the play at the line, he can only choose between two plays that were called in, but I've never seen it said that he can't just chuck it deep..... buuuuut, if the coach is enough of a control freak that he only lets Baker choose between two plays called in, then I could definitely see that happening.

A lot of people have convinced themselves that they see a lot of things. What people have said is that Stefanski won't let Baker be Baker. That he has changed who Baker is. The trust of your HC is earned, not given.

Originally Posted by PitDAWG

By contrast when he never does it the claim gets made that "he isn't allowed to".

You say "isn't allowed to" like he's a 3 year old who has been told he's not allowed to stick a fork in the electrical outlet.. I don't think it's as clear as he "isn't allowed to" as it is that avoiding turnovers has been so stressed and beaten into his brain that he is convinced that he shouldn't ever take the risk.

So it has nothing to do with what Stenafski is instructing him to do but it's about the way Baker is processing the information?

No Pit.. If Stefanski is beating it into his head to not turn the ball over, then Baker is only going to make safe throws.. this really isn't that hard.

Maybe Stefanski isn't telling him that, maybe he's telling him to push the ball down the field and take some chances.. and Baker just won't do it.. I don't know, I'm not there. I would assume that this dynamic will all be factored into Baker's long term future with the team.

I'm pretty sure every HC is telling their QB's not to turn the ball over. I mean that only makes sense. It's what a QB does and how they process that information that seems to make the difference. I think the semantics of "beating it into his head" is the only actual thing that people have left to cling to.

I HATE the spot foul rule.
It cheapens the offense. Need some chunk yards fast? Just chuck it and hope for a flag. Instant field position change.

Interference- 15 yards seems sufficient. No team should ever be the recipient of a 34-yard penalty.

By contrast all a CB would have to do to prevent a TD is interfere. I mean if you're beat for a 60 yard TD score, as long as you can close enough to trip him up or interfere it only costs you 15 yards and not six points.

I see it as a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

Unfortunately, as I tend to agree with Clem, the only remedy would be a two-level penalty tier. I have little confidence that refs could adequately officiate this when there is even more judgement involved. But you're right Pit, it would be just as bad if a defender could trip a WR inline to an easy TD for only a 15 yard penalty.

I've said it for years, PI is (has been) ruining the game, receivers are becoming very well-schooled at "inciting" PI. Flailing, initiating contact, slowing to create contact, etc. Reviewing these plays should give officials the ability to call a "flop" as they do in the NBA, but at that point enforcement would become very convoluted.

I would tend to agree with you. The way some of these WR's try and play up PI when it really doesn't exist does remind me of the flop in basketball. I also agree that putting even more discretion in the hands of the officials may not be the best solution as well. It's a pretty tricky situation all the way around.

I realize it would bring referee discretion into it, but why not have a flagrant interference call remain a spot foul for instances where the DB is obviously beat and basically mugs the receiver, and then add in an "incidental" interference as a 5 or 10 yard penalty, automatic 1st down for both? Or have the ref on the field call interference and let the booth review assess intent or no intent. The booth review could also wave it off entirely, in cases of uncatchable throws, receiver-initiated contact (eg, push off), or the infamous Steeler pick play.

Originally Posted by Dave

I realize it would bring referee discretion into it, but why not have a flagrant interference call remain a spot foul for instances where the DB is obviously beat and basically mugs the receiver, and then add in an "incidental" interference as a 5 or 10 yard penalty, automatic 1st down for both? Or have the ref on the field call interference and let the booth review assess intent or no intent. The booth review could also wave it off entirely, in cases of uncatchable throws, receiver-initiated contact (eg, push off), or the infamous Steeler pick play.

I think this is the best case scenario, without a doubt. I think there are too many cases on the field where refs are influenced in the heat of the moment. How many flags do we see well after the fact? Those would be fine if it were turned over to someone in the booth. "The process" has become a lot more efficient as there is already personnel reviewing each play anyway. I also think there are a lot of cases where refs throw a flag based on previous whining and moaning from receivers as well. This approach takes all of the bias out of the decision, takes away the "human" factor, and judges each play on it's own merit with clear video evidence.

And I don't really care about "slowing down the game", too many games are ruined by these spot fouls.

I agree, and I think that the delay from booth review can be negligible, because they can review the play as soon as the flag comes out on PI calls. Ref on the field simply signals PI, and the review should come in about 30 seconds, if not less. It might be faster than the endless on-field conferences among referees. Plus, odds are greater that they'll get it right, IMO.

Actually, they're not even waiting for flags as every play is now basically under review in real time. The "sky judge" is now obligated to verify certainties established on the field as they happen. Your proposal seems like the next logical step in making sure everything is fair and equitable. I copied a couple paragraphs, very informative article.

Quote

Quick fixes from the replay official
With an ongoing push from coaches for a sky judge or a booth umpire — the former term which originated during the meteoric fall of the Alliance of American Football — the unanimously opposed Competition Committee held its ground and initiated a review of options. Entering 2021, the committee proposed, and owners approved, a new rule that would allow the replay official to intervene between plays to make some obvious corrections.

There is a lot of overlap with the calls that are subject to the replay official’s intervention and a coach’s challenge. So how is this going to work?

First, the replay official would have to see something abundantly clear on video within a narrow scope:

Whether or not the pass was completed or intercepted
Whether or not a loose ball touches a boundary line or the goal line
Correct a spot when the location of the ball relates to the boundaries, line of scrimmage, line to gain, or the goal line.
Correct a spot to an earlier part of a run where a runner was down by contact but not ruled down.

New equipment is ‘Smart’
Another key change in replay has to do with the equipment. This year, the NFL is using a replay system produced by Hawk-Eye Technologies, the same company that made its name with different system that assists with line calls in tennis. The league has dumped its proprietary NFL Vision replay system. The Hawkeye system will give the replay official a better chance at making these corrections prior to the play clock hitting 20.

The major difference is the replay equipment is now a video ingest system. Rather than waiting for the director in the TV truck to punch up the best angle on the broadcast replay, the Hawkeye system records multiple key angles, allowing there to be, literally, an instant replay in the replay booth. The replay official able to rewind the play with all angles in sync and select the key camera angles where there was smoke as soon as the play is ruled dead.

http://www.footballzebras.com/2021/...of-replay-that-could-have-mixed-results/

I would very much like for the 49ers to beat the Bengals.

x100

Originally Posted by cfrs15

I would very much like for the 49ers to beat the Bengals.

The Bucs beating the Bills would not be a bad thing either.

Bengals D showed up to play on the first series. Game started with a 3 and out on both sides. Go NINERS!

Our first place hopes riding on Jimmy Gs dink and dunk game…

Deebo Samuel playing is a very good thing.

Go Lions Giants Niners and TB

I think Burrow might the most overrated player in the NFL.

Tom Brady's record setting completion was one of the best passes I've ever seen.

TB is picking apart buffalo, who suddenly is falling

Wow, the Bengals have muffed their 2nd punt of the day.

Josh Allen went full 2018-19 Josh Allen.

Played better than he is last year and got paid. Now they get the real Josh Allen.

Cmon 49ers dont let up

Kind of loving watching the Bengals lose now.

Josh is regressing!!!

We could have really used a win by the Giants and Lions today. Oh well, can't depend on some teams

Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life

Cmon 49ers dont let up

told ya, something about home games in cininnati in December, bungles play well historically.
But!!!
historically they play terrible against the 49ers too.!

Jimmy Garopolo has s of steel.

edit, I thought that meant, guts or machismo

Jimmy Garopolo has the Stubbornness of a Draft Horse!!!

The 49ers are the best team in the league

Well, Joe Burrow just brought the bungles back.

Niners defense been flying around whole game and now they gas out 🙄

We need a receiver like Chase, badly.

Jimmy G. is a juggarnaught, it's in his initials!

Jeez, Shanahan, throw a screen!

Originally Posted by DaveyD

We need a receiver like Chase, badly.

And Kittle

the niners could try a 47 yard attempt right here no reason to drop back
oh they missed the field goal.

oh my gosh

If that was Tucker, this game is over.

Originally Posted by DaveyD

We need a receiver like Chase, badly.

And Kittle

And Justin Tucker

Thanks Robby 🙄

Wow, Niners and Bengals to overtime… smh. That's so browns.

Originally Posted by OldColdDawg

Wow, Niners and Bengals to overtime… smh. That's so browns.

Yeah thanks to stefanski and woods

Well this sucks

I knew the Browns should have called san Francisco and told them how to beat Jessie bates

I think Jimmy Garopollo has the most veteran leadership type moxy of any qb in the league, playing in Cincinnati at 7 46 pm,

That's a TD!!

Thanks SF!

Down goes Cincy

Breshad Perriman! I remember him.

Was that Breshad Perriman , Son of a (gun) I told them, ugggh why isn't he still a Cleveland Brown

There really is no better than Tom Brady.

What a last couple of weeks of key losses to help the Browns! Stars may be aligning.

We are now the first team out of the playoffs BUT only 1 game from the #4 overall seed.

And the Ravens play Green Bay next.

Watching SNF and they're talking about the future of Aaron Rodgers and how long he has been there, and then the remembrance that he replaced Brett Favre hit me and it dawned on me that Green Bay has had two QB carry them through the last 30 years.

Originally Posted by PrplPplEater

Watching SNF and they're talking about the future of Aaron Rodgers and how long he has been there, and then the remembrance that he replaced Brett Favre hit me and it dawned on me that Green Bay has had two QB carry them through the last 30 years.

It’s what the Colts were supposed to have with Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck (with one Curtis Painter year in the QB wilderness). It seems like the Patriots are going to have 20 years of Brady followed by a pretty good QB in Mac Jones.

Montana into Young.
Some teams get all the breaks.

I hope the Steelers have a 20 year string of Tomzaks, Bristers, and Stewarts.

Originally Posted by PrplPplEater

Watching SNF and they're talking about the future of Aaron Rodgers and how long he has been there, and then the remembrance that he replaced Brett Favre hit me and it dawned on me that Green Bay has had two QB carry them through the last 30 years.

And what’s crazy is that they will have maybe just won 1 title with each

So now I am a cheesehead. LOLetc. I can hope awhile again.

Kittle, Andrews, Kelce and others show how over-rated Hooper is.

He drops balls. He misses blocks. He goes down easy after the catch.

Both Njoku and Bryant have more to offer.

Njoku is more athletic than the three you mentioned… yet can’t hold a candle to them talent wise. He’s all hype and draft status.

Quote

I've said it for years, PI is (has been) ruining the game, receivers are becoming very well-schooled at "inciting" PI. Flailing, initiating contact, slowing to create contact, etc. Reviewing these plays should give officials the ability to call a "flop" as they do in the NBA, but at that point enforcement would become very convoluted.

DBs have gotten equally good at subtle grabs and tugs, you see a lot of one handed catches because the DB has the other arm of the WR pinned down.

Originally Posted by PortlandDawg

Njoku is more athletic than the three you mentioned… yet can’t hold a candle to them talent wise. He’s all hype and draft status.

He's comparing Njoku to Hooper, not to Kittle, Andrews, Kelce. Hooper has been a big disappointment. Since we signed him, no TE in the NFL has more drops. I think Njoku has more to offer than Hooper does. With the drops, fumbles, and inability to block I think Bryant is JAG. Pretty reliable when wide open, but that's about it.

Oh I wasn’t posting as a defense to Hooper. He’s not living up to his contract. But his contract was bloated from the start. Our entire TE squad needs upgraded. It needs addressed in the draft. I don’t know who’s up to be a FA but that list needs to be given a good look too.
Man I wish Baker had a Kelce, Andrews, Kittle type of target. Someone he knows he can chuck it up to and get catches on contested balls. The Steelers look like they also got a good one in Freiermuth… damn it.

Originally Posted by PortlandDawg

I don’t know who’s up to be a FA but that list needs to be given a good look too.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/tight-end/

Honestly, while there are a lot of recognizable names on there, I don't think there is anyone I'd really go after unless we NEED to sign one due to losing someone like Njoku (who is on that list), but I also admit that I don't follow TEs all that much, so I don't know any of the younger names on that list.

I would go hard after Uzomah from Cincy. That guy is a stud and a rising star.

Originally Posted by slick

Originally Posted by OldColdDawg

Wow, Niners and Bengals to overtime… smh. That's so browns.

Yeah thanks to stefanski and woods

Give me the kid from UGA in 2023...

OBJ is a good #2 or #3 wr. He is definitely not a #1 anymore. He needs to be on a team with a player like Cupp to squeeze the last litte bits of goodness out of his past greatness.

Originally Posted by superbowldogg

OBJ is a good #2 or #3 wr. He is definitely not a #1 anymore. He needs to be on a team with a player like Cupp to squeeze the last litte bits of goodness out of his past greatness.

The Browns haven't had the ole passing game thing figured out since Otto Graham was the Qb.

Is there a more go-to person in the NFL than Cooper Kupp?

Nothing wrong with Frank Ryan to Gary Collins and and Bernie Kosar to Webster Slaughter

Looks like obj found his happy place. Sucks we couldn't get anything out of him.

I've already moved on.
He was never really here anyway.

It's hard to miss what you never really had.
*shrugs*

Let’s just say that Mike Martz has no chance of coming to the Browns. We saw full turtle mode yesterday. It’s is all about winning the game, stats be dammed.

Frustrating to players for sure, don’t play Pass catchers in Fantasy Football with a KS team.

damn, obj looked good last night.

Originally Posted by Clemdawg

I've already moved on.
He was never really here anyway.

It's hard to miss what you never really had.
*shrugs*

This.
This is the first time I've ever really considered the impact of not having OBJ on the team since after that Cinci game. I'm kinda shocked at myself right now about how little I care about a guy that came here on such an expensive price tag and left for nothing.

I feel the same way. I've come to the realization that OBJ didn't and never wanted to be here. We didn't know it at the time but it was a big mistake to bring him here.

The Browns had OBJ on their team for almost 2 full years, and they couldn't get any production out of him. (slight impact)
That should be ALARMING. The Browns team, for 40 years can't, or couldn't seem to figure out what any of the 30+ other NFL franchises and citites could figure out over the years, A passing game.

The most alarming thing about the Browns and OBJ is that they cut/waived him before the 2021 season ended.

Originally Posted by THROW LONG

The most alarming thing about the Browns and OBJ is that they cut/waived him before the 2021 season ended.

When you identify cancer than can be removed...you remove it...you don't wait.

He's so much of a caner he's caught a TD pass every week for the past three weeks.

Originally Posted by PitDAWG

He's so much of a caner he's caught a TD pass every week for the past three weeks.

Good for him. I guess the change helped him.

Seems like it did. He found a team that knows how to get him the ball.

And he's probably a lot happier too. That makes a big difference.

Yeah, I guess if a player can find a team that actually finds ways to use his talent it would make for a happier player.

He's the 3rd or 4th best option among pass-catchers now...but one has to actually watch the games to see that. That and the look Stafford has had on more than one occasion after throwing the ball in his direction.

I realize that there's very little room for numbers and actual production, or the lack there of on this board. I've come to expect it.

Originally Posted by PitDAWG

He's so much of a caner he's caught a TD pass every week for the past three weeks.

The dude did NOT want to be in Cleveland. Love him all you like he was NOT wanting to be here.

We are better without him. We don't have his poison in the locker room anymore. We still need to heal but we will come out better without him.

You can fixate on him all you like and think that somehow we were better when he was with us all you like but that is just not true. He is playing better because he wanted to be in LA from the time the Giants traded him.

But you will beat the drum ad nauseum instead of facing the reality he isn't with us, didn't want to be with us and we are better without him for the long term.

Originally Posted by 85_Browns_Queen

Looks like obj found his happy place. Sucks we couldn't get anything out of him.

As OBJ has a few TDs with the Rams, and when he has one, a bunch of people feel the need to go to social media and use that as some kind of proof that OBJ was not the problem... let's look at the numbers..

Before OBJ, Rams averaged 29 ppg, with OBJ averaging 26.3 ppg
Before OBJ, Rams averaged 307.9 ypg passing, with OBJ averaging 281.8 ypg
Before OBJ, Stafford completed 68.2% of his passes, with OBJ averaging 65.3%
Before OBJ, Stafford averaged 2.6 passing TDs per game, with OBJ averaging 2.5 TDs per game
Before OBJ, Stafford averaged .7 INTs per game, with OBJ averaging .8 INTs
Before OBJ, Rams averaged 1.3 sacks per game, with OBJ averaging 2 sacks per game.
Before OBJ, Rams were 7-2, with OBJ 2-2

So OBJ has 3 TDs, good for him.. and while this is a small sample, the Rams aren't any better, in fact they are statistically worse in every single category.. and statistically, OBJ hasn't proven to be any better than whoevers spot he took on the field.

He is proving, so far, that when he's in a potent passing offense, paired with a legit #1, and accepting his role as #2 or 3 option, he can still be pretty decent, but he is not the #1 WR the Browns desperately needed him to be.

Originally Posted by PitDAWG

Yeah, I guess if a player can find a team that actually finds ways to use his talent it would make for a happier player.

I distinctly remember Baker feeding 13 when other routes were open. In fact, I remember being miffed at 6's seeming obsession to get him the ball early in all those games leading up to the CIN game where he ended up on IR. It's not like he wasn't provided an opportunity. I think the disconnect was threefold:

1. He was never invested enough in the playbook. He was constantly being re-aligned pre-snap, wasting precious play clock time.
2. He would improvise routes, based upon his own post-snap reads

Both the traits are killers in a precision/timing offense.

3. I think he was miscast here. Trying to feature him as a #1 was part of the problem, imo. His present skill set makes him a top-shelf #2, as we are seeing now. Double-teams on Kupp mean man coverage for 3. He can win those matchups, especially on plays designed with him as target, and Cooper as decoy.

I'm not in the camp that thinks OBJ was a cancer. I think he was 'square pegged' into this team. Dorsey hired him to take the top off defenses and hit the home run. Then Dorsey was gone. Enter an offensive design that requires players to be in a specific place at a specific time. Odell just never did that consistently. He could run good routes, an when he did, it was often money. Far too often, his improvisations took him out of the play's design, ending in plays where he was out of position or mis-timed to that position. Add to those elements his lack of time with #6 (because of injury, lack of TC/preseason reps, etc), and it's easier to understand why he and Baker never married up.

Sometimes, it's not really a matter of fault or blame. Sometimes, it just doesn't work. Chemistry is hard.

.02

*edit* see... this is what happens when you start a post, and then get up to do other things before finishing: someone else makes some of your points for you. After hitting the 'submit' button, I looked at the post above mine.

Originally Posted by PitDAWG

Yeah, I guess if a player can find a team that actually finds ways to use his talent it would make for a happier player.

You are correct Pit, the Rams are able to use his talent as a #2 or 3 option where other guys are drawing all of the attention (and still catching more passes), the Browns were trying to use him as a #1 WR, which he is not.