100% chance of winning.

Had it all the way.

Well, we needed that! Good win, even if it was ugly. Goes a long way toward building the confidence we need to when the last four!

That was a huge win. Thank God we don't have to play that team again.

Go Bucs! Go 49ers!

1 game out.

Sure would like to feel good with a W with this team for once.

It’s never easy for us.

huntley looked better than jackson. we need to stop the pass pass pass punt in the 4th quarter

Awesome win, but man do we have a bad 2nd half offense.

Lucky to win that one but we got the W

Well, that was excruciating.

He looks more like a complete QB, but nowhere near the athlete Lamar is. Great backup for a young guy. Lamar will eventually slow down. I hope Huntley is poached before then.

Myles Garrett DPOY

Also, that sack by Clowney was HUUUUUUUUUGE

We scored 0 points the entire 2nd half...grateful for the win, but this O needs fixed

How many times did Ravens win ugly? Record FG against Lions that never should have been allowed to be kicked and many others. We haven't lost to a BAD team all year which can't be said by any other team in the division

It’s a win, and I’m going to enjoy it. Go Browns!!

I’m glad we won!

If we lost this game, it would’ve been on no player. This would’ve been all on Stefanski. I’m glad we won and continue the playoff push!!

My take… we’re not a playoff team.

Good news is…a lot of teams that will make the playoffs this year don’t look like they are either.

A Win is a Win in The NFL

1 Game Out of first Place

Baker Mayfield 22/32 YDS. 190 APC. 5.9 TD's 2 INT's 1 Passer Rating 91.9

Chubb 17 Carries 59 YDS. 3.5 YPC Chubb isn't being used enough IMO

BIG Sack By Myles - Sack Fumble TD

BIG Sack By Clowney

Ward's Tackle Sealed It

Stefanski Needs To Adjust His Offense With The Lead

7-6 Breathing Easier Now

Shout out to JOK. Dude is something special

Right! How big was that TD by MG? Wow!

I’m glad we beat the rats, but I sure hate how we can’t have a “feel good” win ever.

Read my last comment!

If We Get In We Have A Chance ...

It's OFFICIAL, Whomever it was that bet 700 on may 22nd trying to win 175,000 on the Browns to have the worst record in the entire nfl.

IS TURD OUT OF LUCK!!! OFFICIALLY!!! MATHMATICALLY!!! gftms

edit: jags and txns play later and even if they tie, it is now official, browns cannot be the worst team in the league this year.

well we spoiled the day for riz

all his money was on the other team

Unless we somehow make/survive in the playoffs...

After that recovered onside kick I thought for sure we would lose. That sickening feeling I know all to well was in my stomach. Great tackle on 4th down by DW. I'm happy we won but again it shouldn't have come down to the last play. Not scoring any 2nd half points is ridiculous!!!

I agree. Its time for Van Pelt to take over calling plays.

No. It's not.

Lack of Points in the 2nd half GOES ALL THE WAY BACK TO KEVIN STEFANSKI'S VERY FIRST DAY AS HEAD COACH

EVERY
SINGLE
GAME
WIN OR LOSE.

Lack of Points in the 2nd half
Lack of points in the 2nd half
lack of points in the 2nd half. THIRTY GAMES!!!!!! THE JURY HAS SEEN A PATTERN!!!!!!

It’s alarming. And we need to fix it asap.

What’s really alarming is that this fix needed to happen over the bye and it appears as if we did not.

Agree. AVP might actually be the issue. Who knows? Just sick of the back steps.

Yes. It is.

Tyler Huntley probably threw the ball better than Jackson would have today. He really looked good and threw some great passes.

1. Would Van Pelt do anything differently?
2. Things will look very different when we aren't playing the Ravens.
3. Stefanski got hired to call plays.

Stefanski will not willingly give up play-calling ever. It needs to be taken away from him forcibly. And that’s not a good look.

He’s the play caller. No matter what we all want.

What would you do differently than Stefanski?

Think we need to address why we keep failing in the fourth quarter. This stop and start habit Chubb has is crippling. Lots of "Chubb for two" today kept us behind the sticks. Need to punch it where it is to go, not just freeze on your run. No points when we needed it most. Glad for the win that shouldn't have been very close. KS has some stuff to fix, part of it is this giveaway defense. Big enough today. Get ready!

They said the Ravens hadn't recovered an onside kick in 20 years. That's when I knew it was about to happen.

I know this is outlandish but if I was Andy Janovich I would have simply caught the ball.

Trust my QB instead of neutering him.

What do you call throwing the ball in the fourth quarter when everyone is calling for you to run the ball more? Baker had multiple deep shots late.

Next.

I agreed with you, cfrs15.

Yes CF. It was a dumb play on his part that nearly cost us the game. One of our players always steps up to screw things up. It's like we don't know how to win.

It feels like, going forward, we need to ride Chubb heavy in the first half and then shift to more d’Ernest in the second.

( if Hunt isn’t gonna miss time with the ankle)

I Tuned in to see the Beautiful game of the Browns offense,


and it largely wasn't there. a little bit, sporadically yes,

But the Beauty, the appreciation, of the Beauty, of this Browns offense,

We only get so many times to see it a year. I wanted to see it!

I know. I was adding with more points in agreement with you.

Another win that almost feels like a loss or draw.

Doesnt look like much was fixed during the bye week.

As usual we get out coached in 2nd half. Stefanski doesn't know how to make adjustments. He shouldn't be calling plays.

Joe woods also looked clueless in 2nd half and was almost beaten AGAIN by a rookie qb.

We lost hunt again. Hopefully not to long

He didn't even see it. He was looking for somebody to block. Now why in the hell someone in the middle of the front line wouldn't be watching the ball is a real head scratcher.

I don't think he saw it coming at him until it hit his mask.

Exactly. Makes no sense. Maybe someone should have told him before AJ went out there.

How many first downs did we have the entire second have? 2?

Hunt might be 3-4 weeks or essentially, the season.

High ankle

Yes, but it WAS a win. Almost doesn't count.

Not much to think about. We are not a playoff team....

If we make the playoffs, we are a playoff team, period. This has been a crazy year for many teams.

For starters, I wouldn't call 7-yard outs on 3rd & 10. For another, I probably wouldn't send the FB Janovich out as a receiver on 3rd down when I have Chubb and Johnson. He coaches scared, IMO.

You need to enjoy the win we are 7-6 and in the hunt coming off a playoff year do you not remember 1-31?

Forgot to give some credit to JOK, Mckinly and Phillips also ...

I went to a bungles-49ers game during the regular season in 1981.....they met in the Superbowl that year. Joe Montana and Ronnie Lott lived up to the hype and they spanked cincy 21-3. Hope the same thing happens today.

If the 49ers beat the bungles today, The Browns would move up 2 spots to at least #2 in the division currently.

And if the Browns Win Out, (4 games left), and the Bengals beat the ravens.... then the Browns would WIN the AFC North! and get an Automatic Playoff Berth!!

I spoke to Riz. He took the points.

Post game thoughts -

--0 second half points.

--Once again made a back up QB look like a pro bowl starter.

--Garrett with a huge play in the first half, only to disappear again in the 2nd half.

--Baker throws a lob behind DPJ instead of letting him run underneath it. Sets up 3rd and long. Of course, no conversion. Then missed FG. On 4th and 6 Huntley throws a beautiful lob that is completed. Leads to a TD. How much money does Baker want?

--Every win this year with the exception of Cincy has felt like a loss.

--This team blows. Could barely beat a Baltimore team decimated, and I mean decimated, by injuries, including their best player. They once again dared the Browns to pass and couldn't do it. And they did that knowing their secondary was decimated. That's how little respect they have for Baker.

--Harbaugh didn't even care Jackson got hurt. He looked across the sideline and saw Stefanski and Baker and said "we go this".

Except they didn't.

I don't know why this keeps getting said because it's not going to happen

1. Yes. We have proof of that with the game he called when KS was out with Covid last year.
2. No it won't Stefanski's lack of adjustment and bad play calling has been a pattern all season long.
3. No Stefanski got hired as the HC.

It's not like the play calling hasn't been an issue most of the season with the same comments after MANY games.

Sorry but not gonna happen. I honestly dont see us beating the bengals again and I doubt we beat the packers on Christmas

Giving Van Pelt playcalling, midseason, because of a one game sample doesn't seem wise.

What adjustment would you like Stefanski to make?

Stefanski got hired because of the offense he called in Minnesota.

This is not a play off caliber team... The penalties that the Ravens made in the first half is why the Browns moved the ball...

The second half is who the Browns are... The Browns were not able to do anything in the second half... A very good sack by Clowney was why they won...

Defenses do win championships, this offense sure in the hell can't !

You post a comment about one throw as if EVERY SINGLE QB in the NFL (even Brady) misses throws every single game. smh.

And you can take all those wins and let them make them feel like loses if you choose. You prefer to look pretty and lose - that's up to you. You decide not to be happy unless we win all phases of the game and by 2 scores... again up to you.

The offense became conservative..the offense put the brakes on ! and it almost cost them the game

KS got hired as HC. Period. You can try to deflect that any way you like.
And no - it's not a reaction based on one game.
But carry on.

What other games did Van Pelt call plays?

Stripping playcalling from Stefanski midseason is a panic move. I can't believe this needs to be said but panic moves are bad.

Good thing winning ugly counts the same as winning by four scores.

I felt the same thing. Justin Tucker's range starts at 60+. One first down. We lose.
It is so frustrating to watch J. Tucker and then watch our kicker miss from 40.

The second half was some bad football. The Ravens were selling out on the run every first down.

And Stafanski played right into that.

Jarvis can not win a go route. He gets covered like a glove.

Hooper is so over rated. He drops balls and gets beat blocking. He goes down so easy after the catch. He is far from good.

We have to be better in the middle of the field with pass routes. Seam routes, slants etc.

Why on third and 9 do we have 6 yard passes?

The design of our passing routes needs improvement.

We were more aggressive in the first half. Then we tightened up on both sides of the ball.

I am not complaining. It keeps us in the hunt. I will enjoy this week.

At the same time we have some tough games ahead of us.

We have to play better football in order to win.

Montana and Lotts playing?

Wow and you call yourself a Browns fan ... WOW just WOW

Just because you are a fan doesn't mean you have to like everything that is going on.

Great to beat the Ravens.

Another game where we looked like world beaters early - then we decide to give the other team a fighting chance. We've done that A LOT. Last year we did it with really big leads and we ended up winning by less than a score. We have to learn to step on throats and put teams away. Zero points in the second half comes down to coaching as much as execution.

Judging by the roll outs and play action - Baker is much healthier. He played pretty well. Better than any game since he was injured.

Landry looked to be his old self and back 100%. DPJ too - solid performance. Hooper dropped the first pass of the game and then recovered and had an ok game.

Defense came up huge at various points and key moments. Without the MG strip and TD - every chance we lose the game.

Here's to the 49ers and every team the Ravens and Bengals play here on out. Our playoff spot may all come to depend on the final game of the season vs Cinci.

Their great Coach went for 2 early to get denied and that cost them the game tying TD

Be nice if you liked something and not complain about everything

must be hard being miserable

You got the wrong guy.

So, tests weren't done? Harbaugh calls it a sprained ankle with no test, while Lamar would not put weight on it? Hmm...

I'm not a doctor but isn't it pretty easy to diagnose an ankle sprain. Also, don't they usually have to wait for swelling to go down before doing any tests?

There is no excuse for that to happen.

You put your "all hands" players on the front line.

Then you open your eyes and be aware.

The kicking team is trying to get the ball to bounce bad.

That play was sickening.

You're in your 70s right? How embarrassing that any posting I do would elicit such an emotional response from a man who has grandchildren.

Aren't you the same guy that went on and on ad nauseum with sentence fragment after sentence fragment about how awesome the Browns were going to be this year? And now they're not and I comment on it and you're upset.

This board. Is crazy. I wish. The Browns. Were better.

Agreed our FB didn't even look for the ball and it bounced off him ...

The thing with Lamar is if he can't run, they're better off with Huntley. Even a low ankle sprain could lay him up for a week or two. Tough break for the Ravens. Too bad, so sad.

Agreed. That win does not give me an confidence in this offense. We beat the Ravens, but that Ravens team was a shell of itself. No Lamar Jackson, no Humphrey, no Peters, Campbell gone. I really feel like the offense becomes to risk averse when they get the lead.

You are never ending in how everything sucks.

How is that for a complete sentence?

That's two complete sentences.

I knew. You had it in you.

You will add months to your life by ignoring him and others in the game day and game threads.

I only have one thing to say:

The Defense is definitely pi$$ed off with this PUTRID Offense!~!

I'm just happy with a win.. Felton needs to hang onto the ball....

Last week, someone on here said that teams have figured out Garrett... NO,, they haven't..

Someone else on here said that Clowney was a waste.. NO he wasn't.

Sticking with the positives:

- JOK is amazing
- Myles solidified DPOY
- Clowney maybe with the season saving sack
- DPJ bounced back today

We need to have a killer instinct and WAY better play calling and coaching in the 2nd half, especially when we are in the lead. Stefanski/Van Pelt are not very good at half time adjusters. Woods and the Defense have gotten better but let teams get back into the game too easily.

Since 1999, we STILL cannot guard Tight Ends. Incredible.

.

If I had to guess Myles is 2nd to Watt. More sacks in less games and more impactful plays.

so Marc trying to have conversation with out bad will..

Look at the first half... the Browns scored points because the Ravens had really bad penalties..and yes thankfully the Browns took advantage of it...

Take the penalties from the Ravens away... Are the Browns scoring ?

I see a coaching staff that coaches scared and lacks confidence in the players.
After watching this team,I understand why.
20 years since the rats recovered an onside kick.I wonder who that last poorly coached ST unit was.

- A win. Which we needed very desperately
- Greedy Williams did everything within his power to get us a loss today. The long pass play (mostly YAC) at the end of the first that led to a FG? Greedy getting smoked on a move. The long pass that led to their first TD? Greedy on coverage. The long pass that led to their second TD? Greedy on coverage. The long pass that should have been their 3rd TD, where the WR was all alone but Huntley overthrew him? Greedy on coverage, until he fell down. Heck, that fumble Myles took in for a TD rolled right through Greedy's hands.
- Greedy has had a couple of nice games this season, and some more games where he was abused. This game was a complete dud. Do PFF scores go negative?
- Overall, other than Greedy, the D was great. Again.
- The FB, can't spell his name, WTF? When you are out there to defend an onside kick, you know, the "hands" team, you need to know where the ball is. I get you were going to block, but you need to know where the ball is. I do not think I have ever seen an onside kick hit someone on the receiving team because he was not looking. How do you go out there on such a crucial play and not pay attention to the ball, which is basically up for grabs? Holy crap.
- With Tucker, I thought we lost the game with the onside kick. Props to Clowney and Ward for stepping up to thwart the ineptitude of #31 and Greedy.
- It seems like kicker's live on the edge of a knife. Not Tucker, I mean mortals. Ours was so solid at the start of the season, now its like he has the yips. Kickers can be so streaky.
- Props to (most of) the D. Baker did what he needed to do. The run game was there more than it was 2 weeks ago.

- We needed this win. We need to build on it, and run the table. The GB game will be tough, but the rest we should have a very reasonable shot to win.

- Losing to PIT and BAL when they scored so few points .... still chaps me.

- It's a win. Feels a lot like after the Detroit win, but it's a much needed win to keep the season alive.

- Great game by the defense overall.

- Garrett with a monster play before the half.

- 0 points second half points. That's now 7 total points in the 4th quarter in the last 8 games.

- No more Felton on punt returns. Keep Natson back there.

- Scottish Hammer may have lost his job today.

- The offense is still struggling to get into any kind of rhythm.

- Troy hill had a nice game making tackles in the backfield.

- Clowney had a strong effort today. Hope they can make it work where he is back next year.

- No more TE screens to Hooper.

- Hope Hunt's MRI tuns out to be fine.

- Drove by a police shooting on E. 12th on the way home from game.

Go Browns!

Someone posted the Ravens were shorthanded. They were but we were too. We had 5 guys out to start the game and then lost Hunt who is a good O player. Don't forget too, Baker is not 100% and won't be for the remainder of the season. Huntly looked better throwing the ball than Jackson. They may have not gotten all those passing yards without him. JMO

We’ve had some pretty unsavory wins this year: Houston, Detroit, Baltimore

Let's talk about his a bit... Did the Browns put the foot on the brakes and go conservative ? or did all the Ravens big penalties help the Browns score ?

What was your second half feelings ?

I will heed your advice.

People of that ilk get to me.

Being negative about everything at all times makes one wonder?

Why bother if all you do is point all that is wrong? How we have no chance to win.

How Baker sucks in every other sentence.

He must have been in hog heaven when we were 0-16.

7 points in the 4th quarter in the past 8 games. That is shameful.

Google says Lamar Jackson has a right ankle sprain and will be evaluated. enough about that turd team. Spit!
Browns Win!
Browns Win!

There was a point in the game where the announcers were talking about how injuries have devastated the rats. A short time later, they were talking about the Browns injuries and said that it's just something all teams have to deal with.

Great win guys. Wish my team did as well. Our season is over, you folks still have some hope. Good luck the rest of the way except for one game, of course!

I’m happy for this win. It was important and had to happen. I was certain we would lose as their kicker rarely misses. The defense won the game at that point.

Very disappointed in the offense after the first half. You can’t go a half without scoring a point. Seriously! How bad is that, and how inept do you have to be??

I’ve lost some faith in Stefanski. Also in Baker, but do believe injuries are part of his issues, I really hope that is the case.

Bottom line…..we are still in the hunt in December. That would have thrilled me a few years ago.

I realize lots of teams deal with injuries and still succeed, but those teams have had the luxury of having great front offices who have built depth. The Browns aren’t there yet, but I have faith they will be.

The Browns need a receiver like Ja'marr Chase.

He'd get torn apart for the drops with us.

JAXON SMITH-NJIGBA

I’d rather not have the third pick.

Trade? Find a gem in the late 1st round?

why ?

I guess if it belonged to another team and we acquired it I’d be good with that.

As of today, we have a 45% chance of making the Playoffs.

......100% chance if we win the division.

Good point ! would you use it to fix the WR position ? I kind of feel I wouldn't mind that..

SORRY.. might have quoted the wrong person

This exactly!

Mox we are all the same on here , qoute one you qoute us all !! you'll be banned and enjoy it..lol just kidding !

I would not dislike a pick like Chase, but it more likely will be another pick similar to Schwartz in the second through fourth rounds.

A good example is the Steelers. They drafted good receivers without using a first. Don't be shocked if Cleveland drafts another tight-end too.

Having two speed-receivers grouped with TEs and RBs is all that is needed.

A healthy Schwartz and People-Jones is not a bad combination. Schwartz needs playing time. I wonder if he is close to returning from his concussion.

I would surely hope so about Schwartz

Thought the same thing about Higgins

I stop reading this thread on page two. I can't see how anybody could not love the fact that we did hang on, and the defense DID make the stop when needed to win the game.

I thought Baker played well, and can see that he is on the road to becoming healthier. I noticed that the coaches took the reigns off of him in the first half, and it worked.

I can't complain about a coach that goes conservative with a three score lead. I think if someone should be called out, it would be the defense for again making a back up QB look like a star. They let their gaurd down when Lamar went out, and it almost bit them in the behind.

Last game people complained about not giving the run game a chance, this week, he stuck with it, and now he is dumb for doing it. I even read someone bashing Chubb for stutter stepping. It is hard to run on Baltimore no matter who you are.

Those claiming we only scored because of the PI calls, hasn't paid attention to Rothlisberger for the last ten years. He has made a living out of throwing to a covered guy to draw the penalty, and it has worked many, many times. How many games have we lost because teams get first downs on sometimes, questionable calls. It's part of the game, and many teams win games because of them.

I think Huntley's fresh legs saved his butt a few times.

A win iis a win, no matter how it happens. I am not as negative about the way they played as many on here are. We needed a win, and got it. That is all that matters.

Cincy lost, the Raiders lost, Buffalo lost. It's anybodies guess who will get in at this point.

I hope somewhere in heaven, Ravenkiller is smiling and not reading the absolute negativity of this thread.

Still in the hunt.

That's the bottom line. The Browns won. Not the ravens.


The Browns won, and many on here didn't give them a chance.

Turnovers and penalties tilted the game. In the Browns favor. Just as we've lost games to those same things.

Could it have been prettier? Yes, ANY win could be prettier. Who cares? The Browns won.

Yep. And they also didn't consider that if it weren't for the interference, the passes would probably have been caught.

Correct.

I listened to the game on radio today because my grandkids were over to decorate our tree and Christmas Cookies. So, I didn't see most of the game but have a question for the posters who know O-line play. How did James Hudson look at RT today? I had really high hopes for him when we drafted him this year.

This comment by Baker is what we have seen in almost every game we get a big lead in. It is my biggest complaint about Stafanski. We need to put the good teams away or it will bite us in the butt.

I am happy with the win. I think if we don't go conservative this game isn't close.

Positives...

Defensive line. Myles and Clowney showed up big but the interior lineman did a great job of staying in their rushing lanes, not allowing A lot of yards on QB runs.

Ward. When healthy he is a top 10 corner. He was healthy today. He made a couple of big hits today as well as great coverage

JOK. He continues to flash all over the field.

Hudson. He showed quite a bit of improvement, especially going against a speed rusher like Oweh. I read somewhere that he only gave up two pressures.

Mayfield. Had a very good first half. He looked healthy with three running first downs.

DPJ. 5 catches for 90 yards. Made an incredible catch and toe tap.

There were plenty of negatives but I'll leave those to others for now.

I didn't focus on him but he grades out with only two pressures. No penalties on him which is an improvement.

This is why lots of CLE fans mute the TV, and listen to Jimmy & Deik.
I've tried it, but I hate the timing glitch.

2 weeks ago, we had to burn a solid 1.5 hours of our lives listening to Chris Collinsworth slurp Lamar Jackson's backside. Midway through the 3rd quarter, my stomach turned.
It felt/sounded like watching one of our 4-12 teams in December.

Thanks, Pdawg.

I don’t know the draft we’ll enough to say.

Playoff Teams play killer instinct football.

The Browns had 4th and 4 or less, with a 24-6 lead, at their own 45ish yard line. BUT.
They had just gotten a bunch of yards on a throw away play for a handoff after a penalty.

The Browns, THE PLAYOFF BROWNS, on offense, needed to Go for that, Continue that drive, GET the 4 yards, and get a touchdown to go up 31-6
That's what teams that actually make the playoffs do with their offense.

They Don't play percentages. Analytics are for losers! Analytics loses on game days.

We can account for two Ratbird fans (hint: one is named Green) announcing our game in the booth. We really should get more love. What one-sided coverage. LJ got a bunch of air time, even after being ruled out, but no props for any good we managed. Our Chubb for two is killing us. And KS is predictably putting us behind the sticks in the second half. Wake up. A backup almost whipped us again.

A win sure feels good on a Monday morning no matter what all the negative posters want to rant about on Sunday.

Yes - still concerning the way Stefanski doesn't adjust and gets conservative after the half. It's a pattern we have seen throughout his entire time as a Browns play caller. It's funny - the Baker detractors want to pin everything on Baker, yet in the first half he was 80% completion and I guess the theory is that he was lucky, or he forgot how to play, or the other team had enough tape on him from the first half to shut him down. . . .

Hope we can stay healthy and Covid free from here on in. I think we can beat the Raiders who are in a tail spin. We can beat the Steelers. I will be expecting to lose to GB and I believe the playoffs and the division will all come down to the final game of the season.

A few weeks ago when Baker looked broken and we couldn't do anything on offense - I would have taken that scenario. I still will.

Way too many negative posts after a W. I used to care about style points in the beginning, but at this rate, I don't care anymore about Style wins. A win is a win and I'll take it anyway we can get it. I saw us damn near blow it at the end and the defense stepped it up when it mattered most. So proud of those guys. I still want way more out of our offense but we Won. We are the only victors in our division this week. That is HUGE!

Lamar was under pressure.

Honestly, Huntley did more than what Lamar was doing before the injury.

Huntley made some big throws. He was hard to tackle. He played very well.

Going way back in the day. I have always felt a quarterback who can run effectively can really hurt you.

When you have a third and long and have an empty backfield. The defense has the advantage because the situation dictates how to play defense.

A quarterback who can go back to pass. Look; then tuck it and run for a first down. That can be so demoralizing.

I am glad to win this game and stay relevant.

Yeah, I could see a QB controversy over there at some point. Huntley isn't the athlete Lamar is, but he's a dual threat just the same, and passes better.

And I think teams have figured out Lamar. As long as you contain him and keep him from killing you with his legs, you can beat him. He passes well enough to compete, but without the constant threat of his legs, he is very inconsistent moving the ball. Take away Lamar's run threat and Huntley is a better option from what I saw.

Huntley surely looked good (he won in Chicago too). The thing that saved us was his fumbles. Huge plays in our favor.

I think we miss Oganjobi

62% pass plays in the first half. 43% pass plays in the second half. That points to putting the brakes on. Trying to shorten the game and not make mistakes. That works fine when Chubb and Hunt are effective and getting chunk plays, when, like yesterday, they are ineffective, it's a recipe for disaster.

This is the first game I've tracked this, but anyone that's watched this team since Stefanski took over knows this is a pattern we've seen. I'm not advocating for Stefanski to give up play calling, but I would like him to self scout and maybe develop a little bit more of a killer streak.

Disagree. When an offense has done almost nothing against you, you don't risk giving them the ball at midfield by going for it on 4th and 5 with a 3 score lead.

And let's not forget, we punted and pinned them back inside the 1.... but "holding on the long snapper"... pinning them inside the 1 could have equally been a game changing play, safety, turnover, forced punt to get us the ball on their side of the 50...

Punting was the right call. If it was 4th and 1 or 2... maybe. But not 4th and 5.

And you can't blame analytics for that..... punting is what every team would have done in that situation going back decades...

Both Mayfield and Chubb expressed some frustration in the postgame about how the pass first offense was working until we got conservative and stopped using it. Chubb stated that the passing game was opening up holes for the running game, then we stopped.

I thought the biggest difference between this week and 2 weeks ago was that in the first half, we were effective at the quick passing game on early downs, getting 6 or 7 yards (or more), putting us in manageable situations which prevented them from just pinning their ears back

It's Football 101, isn't it? If they're crowding the box, you open that up by passing. You loosen them up by pulling the defense deeper and to the outsides.

Trent mentioned that at least on one play they had 10 in the box. As a play caller, how do you look at things like that and NOT try to get behind that defense, especially knowing that they're missing half their secondary??

I don't know if it was play design or just better execution but even when we tried to throw on early downs 2 weeks ago, Baker seemed to be holding the ball waiting for an open guy... this week the ball was coming out a lot quicker, which is why it worked.

I watched at a bar with no audio.. but I do remember a play where we had 9 guys essentially on the LoS, going from left to right with WR, TE, LT, LG, C, RG, RT, TE, TE.. all shoulder to shoulder in a line (a couple off the LoS for formation purposes but essentially in a row) with Baker and Chubb in the backfield so their entire defense was in the box with 1 safety a few yards back.. I was curious what we were going to do out of that formation... we ran into a brick wall. Very creative.

I wonder if KS was being a HC and not a play caller ... if the "Hands Team" for the onside kick would have still included Taki and Janovich .... and I wonder if they'd be coached to look at the ball? Just a thought as I read more.

Great point that is exactly what happened.

I swear I can see the discuss in Bakers face when comes off the field . He and Chubb ( of all people ) saying something about the play calling should send chill's down Berry's spine . The fact the Baker can't audible is just NUTS !

As I have stated time and time again , Ski's Pass route design on many plays is atrocious . The long play to DPJ was on missed coverage by the rats , plain and simple. By the way , as I mentioned on another thread , their TE had 11 catches for like 115 yards . After two seasons at the helm of the Defense , he still has not addressed this glaring problem . We were a sack away from losing .

Thrilled by the win for the Team as they played hard.

Special teams, special teams, special teams.

This game was one-sided until special teams decided otherwise, plain and simple.

1. Colquitt pins them to the 1 early in the 3rd quarter - holding on long snapper - beautiful.
2. Colquitt puts punt down inside 5 and gunner runs into ball and knocks in the end zone - beatiful.
3. Up 15 points - 40 yard FG attempt to put team up 3 scores with 11 minutes left in game (game over Johnny) and misses - beautiful.
4. Onside kick attempt - very few successful and yet we allow Ravens to be successful because "hands team" guy decides to catch ball with his helmet - beautiful.
5. Tucker kicks 50+ yard field goals all day long like they are 20 yard chippees (pressure situations included). Our POS placekicker craps his pants just about every time.

As for the 2nd half offense. We had 2 possessions of the ball in the 2nd half, prior to 7 minutes left in the game. Both possessions we moved the ball, once to midfield and stalled due to holding call on Johnson run which would have put us around Ravens 40, and the other we drove to Ravens 23 and the idiot FG kicker missed 40 yarder to put us up 3 scores with 11 minutes left in game.

Glanced at snap counts posted up on Twitter.

Higgins logged 24 snaps, but I didn't notice him out there. He had more snaps than Hance as a 6th lineman and our FB (barely), as well as Felton, Natson, and our emergency TE call-up.

The Curious Case of Rashard Higgins will be one of those stories we read about after his time is done with the team.

Higgins, and all of our WRs, in general, are a complete mystery.
How pedestrian and hobbled this offense has become is a mystery.... and it goes way back before Baltimore. Even in the Cinci game, this offense was not really clicking. We had two big plays on offense and a defensive TD that made that game feel better than it was. We're like a V-8 with three bad cylinders. We're still running and pulling along, but we aren't even remotely close to being the way we should be.

I saw him congratulate Landry on a first down catch. Honestly, that was about it for me.

Glad with the win.

O needs to be revamped.

Why don’t we cover Mark Andrews on 4th and 5????

It’ll be interesting to see the Ravens performance from here on out.

I call that the announcer’s curse. Happens with regularity.

It's just like that game we had with the Pats at their place 7 or 8 years ago. They scored then went for the onside kick and one of our up front guys just dropped the ball. The Pats recovered and Brady threw a game winning last second pass. It was the game Josh Gordon tore the Pats secondary up.

4th and 11 we allowed him to run straight down the field and catch it at about 8 yards, then stumble forward untouched for the first down. Our DBs looked like they weren't even ready for the snap, they were all standing 10-15 yards downfield. Then inside the 5, we had 4 guys in the general area watching him run through them to be wide open behind them.

Then on the goal line we are rushing players onto the field (late) because we had the wrong personnel on the field..

I'm convinced they are calling the game from a tape delay on a screen, so they see events on the fields before they have to announce it. Way too many "coincidences" of "He's hasn't fumbled the ball in 300 carries... The ball is loose!!! he fumbled the rock!!!"

I don’t think our offense has been on track since the Chargers game honestly. It might be injuries, nobody to take the top off the defense, etc. But we feel like we’re playing in a shell

The offense is broken.

It's always excellent play calling when the players execute the play and it's always called terrible play calling when they don't.

j/c

As often is the case we had "The Tale of Two Halves"

We had both good Baker and bad Baker depending on which half you watched. From any of those who claimed Baker has been scared out of throwing the deep ball, I hope you watched the game. We had the offense executing in the first half and failing to execute in the second half. We had the defense playing well in the first half then faltering in the second half.

Now I could break down one half and claim that speaks for the entire game. I could claim either half tells the entire story. But as we all can see that's simply a fools errand and holds zero merit. Which is always the case. The first half it looked like we had very competent WR's and Hooper looked fine. And the second half it didn't.

Our O managed to put 17 points on the board in the first half and zero in the second half.

Bottom line here is that both our O and D played JUST WELL ENOUGH in the first half to outweigh the horrible second half performance.

It's a win so I'll take it. But it certainly doesn't give me a warm, fuzzy feeling.

We Won;
The ratbirds, stealers and bengals all lost.

It was an awesome week

Compelled to reply ( lol ) " Higgins, and all of our WRs, in general, are a complete mystery. " Nope ; they are not in position to make plays !

Funny thing. They certainly seemed to be in positions to make plays in the first half. Even Hooper did. Is this going to be one of those threads where posters forget what happened in the first half?

I wonder if we will ever figure out how to defend against competent TEs, let alone great ones.

LB in FA or draft?

Wow. You really, really, really didn't like Kurt Warner breaking down film and telling anyone that wanted to pay attention how the one game Baker wasn't at fault for the lack of points did you? Still seems like you are railing against his breakdown and film study weeks after he did it.

Tell you what. Instead of breaking down one half or the other - why don't you go back and breakdown the whole game from this weekend.

I do remember the very first play of the game - it hit Hooper in the hands and he dropped it. Now I know you say you don't know if our receiving core is elite or not, but maybe it's me ... but it seems most elite receivers catch balls that hit them in the hands.

I do intend to watch the game cuts on Sunday Ticket ... so I will let you know what I see. But I am not doing that in a vacuum - you need to do it to. Maybe we'll see the same things - or, better yet, maybe we'll see different things to discuss.

Hooper dropped the first pass of the game. Baker threw to guys who were tightly covered all day...all season actually. I'll believe Baker and Chubb when they express frustration about what happened in the 2nd half.

Best post yet.

Please enlighten as to what "bad" Baker was in the 2nd half.

4 possessions in the 2nd half.

Drive 1 - 10 plays: Taken out of the game for concussion check while team had 3rd and 6 at the Bal 44 yard line.
Drive 2 - 11 plays: Drives team down to Baltimore 23 yard line and play calling got conservative and settled for missed 40 yard FG - 11 minutes left in game.
Drive 3 - 3 plays: 3 and out with 7 minutes left in game and leading by 2 scores. all plays were passes - 1 screen and 1 pass to fullback and incomplete pass under pressure to Landry which would not have been a 1st down. Very conservative but intent was to keep play clock moving and not just run 3 plays into line of scrimmage. Should have taken sack to keep clock moving or force timeout.
Drive 4 - 3 plays: 3 and out with 6 minutes left in game. 2 Chubb runs for -1 yard and 4 yard pass to DPJ.

Oh - does that mean I don't need to go watch the game again? Or is this breakdown meritless because it is only one half? .... And besides - any good Baker Hater knows that the play calling got conservative because KS doesn't trust Baker. Duh.

You mean one half of one game to try and break down what happened over a three game stretch. In fact you could include the second half of this game. I gave you the perfect example. Do you think evaluating either half of this game explains the other half of it? Of course not. One half Baker and the entire team played pretty well. With the exact same players on both sides of the ball they stunk it up during the second half.

So you want me to break down the entire game but think Warner explains everything by breaking down one half? Hmmmm, interesting.

It's odd how you concentrate on Hoopers drop in the beginning but ignore his three catches, one for a TD. You act like targets never drop a ball. Yet he caught a TD pass which accounted for 7 of the 17 points our O scored the entire game.


That's simply a lie. My claim is that Baker has to play good enough for me to evaluate them. As for this game? They looked above average in the first half and well below average in the second half. Once again if you look at Bakers completion percentage in each half it helps explain a lot. Your contention seems to be that him throwing, in this case well below 50% is all on the WR's. But that doesn't explain his high completion percentage in the first half. It was the take of the two Bakers. Never have I ever claimed nor expressed that I "don't know if they're elite or not". There is under no circumstances I would ever claim they're elite. But then a good QB doesn't need an elite squad of WR's to play well.

Excellent game
We beat the division leaders and we did not play are best.

He also caught three in that first half. One resulting in 7 of the only 17 points the offense scored. But if you focus on the one and ignore the other three it kind of sounds like you made a point.

You wouldn't get the point if it was stuck in your eye. Elite TEs don't drop passes like that. Hooper also gets zero separation and zero YAC...Baker makes great throws to even get it to the guy. You were being asked if our receiving options are elite. It's ok to say they are not elite...while maintaining criticism of Baker's play. It's pretty-much what everyone else on the board is/has-been doing.

Hmmmm - most of my post was light hearted in nature. Hence the

However - regards claiming you don't know if the receiving core is elite or not. That's not a lie. I asked you flat out - do you THINK our recieving core over the last few games would be characterized as Elite - Very Good - Good - Average - Below average (I think those were the choices)..... you claimed you couldn't make a determination. Yes you used Baker as an excuse. But like I said before - if you can't see a below average WR core when you see it (for any reason) then I don't know what to tell you. You can claim it's because of Baker ... but you flat out said you couldn't tell if our receivers were Elite.

I didn’t like Baker and Stefanski’s post game interviews.

I’m a shake and Bake guy but my man needs to stop being so down mooted and critical about our game plan. Nothing good will come out of it. Where is the old Baker we know?

The front office and especially our GM also needs to stop playing mind games with the media about our most important position. All this endless speculations about Baker is killing some of the guys mood and some of the good vibes that the team is generating.

My take on this is simple. A healthy organization don’t start to shake the boat when we finally is getting somewhere. Crazy stuff. We all need to get behind our players and fill them with confidence, not the other way around. Andrew Berry should take a step forward and settle the score whatever it is and after that silence the surrounding narrative that there is tensions between our QB and other important members of the organization. Why has he allow the media to continue create such a self destructive narrative about our most important position?

Good leadership is to when necessary own the narrative of what’s going on in the organization.

Precisely so. You could even say something along the lines of the receiving core looks average but I believe that's because of the QB.

Anyhoo. It's a win. We are going to win the division. Monday's are good after a W no matter what.

I do agree with that 100%. No matter what - keep any dirty laundry in house. Period.

Does anyone remember the incomplete pass on 3rd & 10 to Landry before the missed FG at the start of the 4th Q? I had stepped away and only saw the missed FG. The reason I ask is because Stefanski echoed Mayfield's regret for "not putting an opponent away" (due to "conservative" play-calling), but then slipped in what I consider to be a passive-aggressive dig at Mayfield. He said he also lamented not making the FG to make it a 3 score game (18 pts), and then added he also regretted not converting on the 3rd down play before the missed FG. On the radio, Rizzo said it appeared that both Landry and Stefanski were visibly annoyed with Baker.

Did he throw to the wrong guy? Was someone else open? Was it a bad pass? Or none of the above?

Hooper was wide open on that TD pass. Wide open.


I said under no circumstances did I consider them elite. Read much?


So the fact that Baker threw for a 42% completion percentage during the second half is the fault of the same WR's that he did so well throwing to in the first half?

Or the NFL is the WWE.. you ever wonder how Vegas usually always wins!

So Baker must have done extremely well yesterday with a below average WR group in one half and done terrible because of the WR's in the second half. News flash. It was the same players. Oh no, that's not it. Baker only threw for 42% of his passes in the second half because of the play calling. The plays that are called must effect his arm.



Just remember I'm joking because I used a laughing emoji.

Can you confirm this because I'm arguing with a guy on Twitter at the very moment that says the pass was bad and behind Hooper and there was no replay during the game? Just was called a drop

Those knocking Hooper don't want you to see this one.



A basic pass and catch. They claim he doesn't get open. One poster said the only reason Hooper catches the ball is because Baker makes such terrific passes when he is covered. The film says no.

Just watched it again.

Drop.

That was perfect ! would love to see more passes and catches like that more often !

I re-watched the game. I thought Baker played excellent in the first half and decent in the second half. Our last 2 drives were brutally conservative.

Does anyone have access to PFF - I guess I would take their grades as a neutral overview of how the Offense performed. I'd be interested in season long grades on our WR, TE and QB as well. I know Baker's grades should be below average for most of the games since he tore his shoulder ... I'd still be interested to see if anyone can post.

And there were a lot of those during the first half. I think Baker played very well in that first half. I think the receiving targets played pretty well during that first half. I guess where my issue is, is where people are quick to point out that Hooper dropped the first pass but not willing to give him credit where credit is due.

I mean I could sit here and point out the int. Baker threw by throwing the ball well behind Landry as some sort of indication of how Baker played in the first half but that would be trying to focus on one of only a very few mistakes he made during that first half as being indicative of how he actually performed overall in that first half. And that would be painting a false picture.

We certainly agree on the first half. I don't see how anyone could pull "decent" out of that second half though.

Ok let me set the record straight as far as my post went . I was and am talking about the WR Room , play calling and Ski as a total body of work so far the season . I was responding to Purp. as it pertained to disappearing wideout's through out the season. Now you can bend the thread anyway you want , but that's what I was posting about ! I believe most posters caught my drift .

That's not the one where Landry only went 7 yards out is it? Landry looked annoyed after that one, but I don't know if he realizes he had two guys draped around him and Baker was being chased to the sideline... and even IF Landry had caught it, he wasn't anywhere close to getting that 1st Down. He was going to be crushed on the spot like a grape.

You say Baker missed this throw behind Landry.

What if Landry was supposed to break in and not out based on where the safety was located.

Possibly, Baker threw it where he was supposed to be and Jarvis made an incorrect route adjustment. It happens.

j/c...

Actually if you have the chance to look at that play again. Landry was crossing in his route before Baker let go of the ball. The only possibility is that Landry was supposed to make a sudden stop in the middle of his route while he was running full speed. The pass wasn't delivered inside of where Landry made his initial break to the outside. This one was pretty obvious. Good Lord. I gave Baker credit for playing a great half of football. Now saying he wasn't perfect isn't enough? lmao

I need the All-22, or someone with it to look, to be certain, but I'm 99% certain that when the ball was released, Landry was headed one way. He abruptly altered his direction and went to the outside right about that time. You can get a feel for that by looking at the amount of time that passes between Landry's move and when the ball arrives, but also by looking where the ball arrives. I suspect that Baker anticipated Landry to stop and turn around/come back a step and not to stop, come back and do an out. Which of the two was right based on the scheme/route rules and the read is anyone's guess.

When you see something like that, almost never is it something so super simplistic like "missed him behind". He was throwing to a spot. Either it was the wrong spot to throw to or the WR went to the wrong one. These are the things they practice over and over and should be second nature. In practice, defenses should be changing up their coverages and techniques to practice them for themselves, but also to give specific looks to the offense so that they can practice their stuff. Granted, it's a little more nuanced, but this is the sort of thing that like not having 12 men on the field, all of the players should know to the point of subconsciously reacting in the correct manner.

Ahh, you were talking the failed attempt at a 1st down, not the play that resulted in the INT.

That ball was definitely behind, but had it been less behind, it could have been picked. Either way, there was a guaranteed 0% chance of it being converted for a 1st because Landry was short and tightly covered.

j/c...

You keep making these spurious claims. No-one said Hooper didn't make any plays. I said I remembered that the first play of the game he dropped a ball that hit his hands - the topic was about being elite, I highlighted a play that indicated a lack of Eliteness. It was not a full critique of all of Hooper's contributions on the day. The drop is something we have seen Hooper struggle with in other games, again indicating a relevant observation about his eliteness . No-one said receivers don't ever or should never drop balls.... and I didn't and no one else claimed Hooper didn't have some good plays.

You keep going to this "ALL or NOTHING" extremism stuff.

I don't know what happened on the interception - it could easily be all on Baker. I don't know. On the game cuts on Sunday Ticket they don't show the slow mo, or wide angle replay. I do know that Baker throws to receivers who haven't made their break in many games - whether that's a factor I dont know.

Along with the defense this was one of the highlights of the game. Very refreshing and much needed if we are to win 3 and get to the playoffs.

Not sure, but you might be talking about the 3rd down incomplete to Landry at 7:34 of the 4th Q. That was the Browns next drive after the missed FG. The incompletion I was wondering about happened on 3rd & 10 at 11:39 of 4Q.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/playbyplay/_/gameId/401326526

In the same vein, I thought Philips had an excellent game for his first time back. My eyes only saw the dumb penalty, but otherwise looked fast.

Well he outplayed Lamar over there

Keep in mind who you replied to.

In general, to all: On a side note, about Janovich on the on side kick - he messed up. Okay? No sugar coating it, he messed up.

In explanation, he's out there to knock the snot out of the raven player that has a chance to recover it. He's not out there to recover the kick. Now, as the play played out, he messed up, of course. he was too focused on blocking, and not watching the ball, at all.


On an additional side note, and I can't find the link now - but on the on side kick, the Ravens had 3 or 4 people lined up illegally. You can even see the side judge motioning that some of them needed to move closer to the kicking line. Please, someone, find this video. The ref is motioning for ravens players to step closer, they don't. He doesn't throw the flag.

On kickoffs, you need to be at the line, not a yard or 2 behind it. So, while not called, it was an illegal kick anyway.

Browns won, that's all that matters.

Phillips looked good when I saw or noticed him. That's a potentially important add, good catch

Here's vid. Watch the ref at the bottom of the screen just prior to the kick.

https://sports.yahoo.com/videos-refs-blow-call-onside-173148276.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

Sione Takitaki, Andy Janovich, Elijah Lee, and Malcolm Smith are on our "Hands Team"?? Jeezus, Priefer!

Why not? If they have hands, they have hands. You don't have to be a receiver.

Why not? Because in that situation they have one bleeping job - catch the ball - and none of those guys but Janovich have experience doing that in a game setting. I am saying that situation calls for WRs, RBs, TEs, and maybe DBs who know they only need to catch the ball and get down.

...and the usual negetive whiners wanted to dump this rookie before he even played his 3rd game.

I think perhaps you don't understand the "hands" team.

Tell me what I'm missing, because I surely remember years past when the "hands team" on anticipated onside kicks was populated with players familiar with catching the football.

Times have changed.

Notice, I DID Andy messed up, okay??????

But in obvious on side kick situations, you have your hitters, and your hands people. The hitters go out and hit the kicking teams players, allowing for the 'hands' people to get the ball. It's a fairly simple concept.

I see 7 guys in the front line and 2 guys, both outside the hashmarks, a few yards behind them, and the whole middle of the field wide open. 2 more receiving team guys well off the ball, and out of view. So I'm supposed to believe that the "hands team" is 2 guys about 35-40 yards apart?

So, 7 Browns "hitters" vs 10 Ravens + Tucker, and 2 guys in the immediate area to chase down the ball that - ostensibly - we hope will get past the front 7 hitters - who are not used to catching footballs, but happen to make a really easy target for a good kicker to clang the ball off of. In an era when successful onside kicks are really rare, the Browns have succeeded in making it much easier. Brilliant!

Donovan Peoples-Jones.....5........90
Jarvis Landry...................5........41
Austin Hooper..................5........30

A win is a win. Fun game to be in the stands... until that realization that Tucker was probably going to kick a game winner and effectively end our season.

Don't understand how this team has no idea how to play with a lead or play from behind.

Oh well, not convincing enough to give me real high hopes, but "just win baby" needs to be our mantra again this Saturday against the team that made it famous. Would love to see a complete victory.


Oh yeah, also wondering if Rish needs a loan??

Yeah, believe what you want. Doesn't matter to me.

Ditto.

What are the terms?

It depends... ho much did you set on fire?

I like this comment.

J/c

I saw the earlier posts about James Hudson’s good day: that’s a good sign. He was SO bad in the preseason and early on this year. Testament to coaching and hard work. It means the potential is in there somewhere

Psssst...it was a two-yard pass that Hooper chose to fall down to catch. That is EXACTLY what I am talking about.

Regarding the underlined above...that is not what I said Mr. Comprehension...I said that Baker (frequently) has to make impressive throws just to GET THE BALL TO HIM...if Baker could control what Hooper catches and what he drops...I would have said just that.

He seems to have made progress , at least in one game. As you said terrible pre season and in his early first action. Maybe he has and will continue to make improvements at Right Tackle ( not left )

I can just imagine how bad we all would have felt if They came back and won this game because of the non call on the onside kick. It would have been the 2nd game the Ravens won because of a non call. In reality we should be tied with them for 1st place. Can anyone remember the last time we won a game because of a non call that favored us? I can't.

Keep in mind who still stalks me with personal jabs. So don't be upset when you get it back. Because you will. Just not now. I'll wait. Because trashing the pure football forum is not the place for that trash. Not that you seem to care.

You focused on the negative while ignoring mentioning anything positive. You can choose to dance around that and call it anything you like. It is what it is.

So it's not really about the fact he caught the ball. To you it's "how he caught the ball" that matters. Style points? Have you ever considered becoming a judge in Olympic figure skating?

No...it's my attempt to explain to you that Hooper is awful at getting separation and YAC. All one has to do is watch a game or two...apparently...that is something you haven't tried yet.

Oh I've watched. He caught five passes in this game alone. He had great separation on the play. You might wish to try and use an example that illustrates your point instead of one that shows the exact opposite of it.

So you think Hooper is able to regularly get separation. You see a different game than I do.

As I said, that's not what the evidence you submitted has shown.

To be fair here I was pretty surprised Clowney wasn't called for roughing on the sack that followed the onside kick. He drove through and landed on the QB. Couple that with a bias to call crap calls on us and it was pretty surprising no call.

You always beat the drum that essentially any play is a good play call and it's up to the players to execute it correctly and it should work or that if it worked once, it should work every time.. essentially laying all responsibility for offensive success on the players and none of the play callers. There is a reason some OCs get a reputation for being good play callers and others don't.. and the ones that are good make millions of dollars per year... because the rest of the NFL understands that not every play has the same chance of success and how you order and call your plays is important and has to adapt to what the defense is doing. And throughout the game, defenses adjust to what is working against them so the offense has to adapt as well

I don't know what adjustments the Ravens made at halftime but Baker and Chubb were both on the field in the second half, both of them said we got too conservative, we abandoned the pass first offense that was opening up the run in the first half.. so I'll take their opinion over yours.

Spot on...again. (I promise I'm not stalking you this morning.)

I'll add to your post the whole concept of match-ups and exploiting the defense - aka taking what they are giving us. We've not been able to contain a TE STR. Our opponents know this and they exploit that. On the other hand, we run what we want to run by God and when KS says it's time to go away from that - whether it's working or not be damned - we will go away from that. At times we seem to out-smart ourselves by going away from what's working BEFORE the defense actually begins to figure it out. See Ravens game #2.

Every play I've ever seen in shorts at a practice goes for a TD. Every single one. Every play is "drawn up" to not be stopped. The problem is that the other team has pro players too...and matchups are critical to helping a player succeed by winning his matchups....asking a TE to block a DE is silliness. We've shied away from running right whenever Conklin is out. Defenses have also noticed that and they play accordingly. We adjusted to that...but it's limited our run game effectiveness as we are more predictable. Defenses are loading the box and daring us to throw and we bunch up the LOS with extra TE's and have ONE guy split out wide...ish...so all but 1-2 guys are stacked at the LOS and they have more guys there than we have guys to block...but we pound that square peg. I think KS, his play-calling and the O has been somewhat figured out by the league and we've not adjusted to that - in game or otherwise.

I see. So these are the same play callers that led us to the playoffs last year and now they suddenly suck. Got it.

Here's the thing. Everyone praised and carried on about analytics. And they love analytics when it looks the way they want it to.

What would you like to bet that when going into half time with a 24-6 lead that the analytics indicate you should play conservative in the second half? I mean your defense only gave up six points to them the entire first half. Do you honestly believe that analytics tells you to come out and play aggressive with that lead in the second half?

So it's your contention because players don't like playing conservative football that tells you the story? No, it doesn't. Haslam pays millions of dollars to people that are experts in analytics every year. They break down every situation. They call the game according to those analytics. Just because the players don't like it and the fans don't understand the reasons why they call the game the way they do doesn't change any of that.

That's why the fans and players don't make millions to study the analytics and game plan based on them.

If you think your explanation is really some excuse for a QB throwing for 42% of his passes, I would say desperation has set in when searching for an excuse.

And just a few weeks before, a healthy Baker Mayfield was 19-21..... but let's not discuss that either.

You mean the same Baker that had already suffered the injuries people claim keep him from playing well now? I've always said we've seen good Baker and bad Baker. I guess you decided not to read that part.

But since you brought up good Baker. We saw good Baker in the first half and bad Baker in the second half. It was like watching two different QB's in the same game. And in case you missed it, he had the same injuries in both halves.

I didn't say they suck.. I said the NFL now has over a year and a half of film on them and has figured out their tendencies and they seem to have struggled to adjust to what the defenses are now doing to stop them.

I'm on record as having no problem with analytics IF AND WHEN it is applied by people who are also considering game situations and who understands his own team. There are total NFL analytics that you can study and use but they don't all apply to OUR TEAM in every situation... By your assertion above, you or I could coach the team and call the plays because they are being spit out of an algorithm somewhere based on nothing but data.

How many times last year did we blow out a team in the first half only to need to scramble to recover an onside kick in the final minutes to cling to a victory? I remember the Cowboys and Titans games and I believe there might have been one or two more. We've done it this year, we lost to the Chargers after having a 3 score lead... and it happened again against the Ravens... we let teams back in games.. it's a tendency, it's a habit...

Yet the coaching staff used that strategy and still won. Style points and the margin of victory have no factor in the W/L column. Only the W. And you call it a habit, which it very well may be, but it''s created far more W's than L's. Here are some facts. Short passes have a higher completion rate than long passes. Running the ball helps run the clock down and generally lead to less turnovers. Long passes have a higher int. ratio.

Those all work the exact same way for the Browns. It seems your issue is more about how we didn't blow teams out in the second half when we still won the game by playing more conservative when every indicator shows that's exactly the strategy that should be used in the second half when you have a big lead.