I'm sure all wish to blame Baker for the loss. He definitely had his contributions but what I saw was a confirmation that the NFL has some sort of grudge against the Browns and mostly against their fans as we forced then to reinstate our team and then there was the running off the refs which many fans wish to do but we were the only team to do so. And don't get me wrong it was a bad act and we are paying for it all these years. Jokingly I state there is a conspiracy but for the first time I actually beliieve it. It was more about Rodgers breaking the Fauvre record than an actual game. As there was an obvious hold on DPJ early on as Baker threw a deep post only to go from a long gain and possible TD to INT #1 for Baker. What I hate the most is Baker having to pull aside the ref and explain the foul and asking why it was not called meanwhile our Leader pffft Stefanski did not make on complaint to the refs - you see all the Good to great coaches especially in our division complaining to the refs about call meanwhile Ski with a legit complaint doing nothing. I wouldn't play for a coach like that. So I see him wanting to throw away Baker and go for a tall strong QB that fits his offense as he was forced to have Baker thrown to him. Soo no doubt I see Baker leaving us and will become a superstar somewhere else.

I saw our defender on the DL literally get TACKLED by the OL of the Packers on a running play right in front of the ref and no flag thrown. Play after play changing the outcome of our game yes, another game lost within 6 points and a move closer so that our Browns will have to get rid of a possible franchise QB convincing most fans that he just is not that QB so that we will once again spend another 20 searching for that QB. What a shame. With Dunn and Chase on the OL doing nothing much we still frushed for over 200 yards. Harris btw did an excellent job at center.

Got to run
outside of the game hope all had a Merry Christmas will be back for more and what did you all see.
God bless you

Two things stood out to me. First, once again the inability to perform the task of kicking the ball between the uprights cost us. If we made that first kick we would have kicked again on the second td and we would have had a tie game going into the final drive. Overtime at worst. Instead we lose by 2.

Second, while I do not pretend to be a knowledgeable playcaller, I do not understand why we abandoned the run on that final drive. Nick was gouging them regularly and yet we threw three passes after we got the first down on the 50. I just don’t get it.

Not over yet!! We root for bengals and chiefs.

Four Interceptions,, bad... but not all on baker.. I think one was on a receiver falling down.. another was off a pretty clear penalty... I once again saw Peoples Jones drop too many. Not sure it would have made a difference,, but it happened.

Saw that Chubb needed the ball more. Saw where Johnson deserved the ball more... Those two guys were Packer Killers yesterday.

I saw where the Oline wasn't all that and a bag of chips..

Can someone please get to Rogers.. Please.

It seemed like last year, Stefanski could do no wrong,, For some reason this year, not so good.. not sure what happened between last year and now.

On to the next game....

We didn't abandon the run on the final drive ... only on the final 3 plays after running the ball and gouging them. with 50 seconds left and 3 time outs. I liked the first down deep shot - stay aggressive. That to me was worth a shot - but with a 7 yards per average, running the ball at least on 2nd down would have been a good call. And assuming we were in 4th down and go for it mode - if not 2nd down - on 3rd down to create a 4th and short.

1. I actually saw Schwartz finally contribute.
2. OL played well for the most part. Nick Harris is a much better Center than Guard.
3. Baker's performance was disappointing (2 picks on him, 2 not so much). Expect the Baker bashing from the usual suspects.
4. Liked the play calling for most of the game except the last 3. Could have stayed with the run a little more there.
5. Austin Hooper is the slowest TE in football and cannot stay on his feet. No YAC for you, ever.
6. Harrison Bryant is coming along.
7. The next time Njoku runs a good route, it will be the first time.
8. D played well given the circumstances, although tackling remains an issue as usual. Watch Greedy on the goal line run by Aaron Jones. What a half-hearted joke of an effort to make a tackle. Turtle arms.
9. Placekicking cost us yet again.
10. Chubb and Johnson were beastly.
11. This team when healthy and playing their best ball can beat any team in football.

Onto Pittsburgh. Still in it - need Bengals and Chiefs today and Rams next week. All good...

j/c for my takes on defense...which played quite well overall.

I saw Myles Garrett dominate his way to an assist and...well an assist...as in (1)...(1) tackle;

I saw Myles Garret actually...finally...get a hand on Rodgers during the game...but it was an in-game congratulatory handshake and full of love and niceties...Lamar is jealous;

On the 1st drive of the second half, I saw Myles Garrett completely abandon his area of responsibility in an attempt to get his obligatory one-sack-per-game (as usual) and give up a huge run...then he did it again...then same drive...I saw Myles Garrett standing and watching while the Packers moved the pile another 3 yards to get the first down;

The leader of the defense and "face" of the team. My goodness.

I saw Denzel not want much of anything to do with D Adams. Ward is such a weak-looking player and WRs push him around like he's a kid. Newsome is a better CB.

MJ Stewart might be an average-at-best defensive back...but he's one tough little fart...and he's strong. Once he gets his hands on a player, they go down.

Greedy was juuuuuuust a little late on numerous plays...he doesn't get to practice against very-good WRs...so his being a little late in the game isn't such a surprise.

Delpit was non-existent.

JOK is going to be special...the sooner we get A Walker out of the way and get Phillips up-to-speed the better.

Not sure we would have looked better with Hill, JJ3 and Harrison back there. Maybe they would have done better on the blitz for a TD to Adams over Richard LeCounte

They played well...I'd still can Woods after the season.

Willing to wager the whole Coaching staff returns .. Yea , saw the Garrett /Rogers love fest on the field ! Made me ill .

EO, I agree this game was all about promoting Rogers record. I rewatched the picks, and definately some holding going on there. The false start penalty was a horrendous call. Not one lineman flinched until the DE was already across the line. When they started running the ball better in the fourth, they were literally tackling our DL. The NFL has got to do something about this absolute robbing of teams with phantom calls and blatant disregard for obvious holding penalties.

But, if you think this was bad, wait until next week. Ben's last game at Heinz field. The Browns will have no chance. If anybody believes the NFL is going to let him lose his last home game of his career, they haven't been paying attention.

You are a harsh critic.
I don't see this "special" in JOKe.Run right at him,he's going to get knocked on his behind.He's a chase and tackle LB,with more speed than Wali Ranier.

Hard to believe the Browns almost pulled this off after all of the interceptions. Wow.

I hear what your saying , but I think Walker would be a better example of Wali Ranier .. Ton of tackles 5 yards down the field.

I saw our two running backs, Chubb and Johson play well. I saw Peoples-Jones get me super excited for a fraction of a second then let me down. I wish Baker would just take what the defense gives us with more 7-8 yard completions instead of waiting for the big chunk play to develop...which usually means he has no time to set his feet.
I saw our back up center play well for us. I thought our 3rd string CB, Stewart played well. I saw Dunn, Hance, and Njoku struggle to block at times.
We definitetly missed Clowney and Takk...Garrett could have used the help pressing Rodgers.
I questioned two false start penalties againt us where I rewind and watch it multiple times...I have no idea why the ref's called them. And I saw at least three No Flag penalties that were obvious on the Packers.
Overall, with the exception of Baker's four turn overs, the rest of the team played well when you consider how many we were missing.

But Wali Ranier was the run-stuffing MLB...well...he wasn't...but he was supposed to be. That isn't JOK's role...or it shouldn't-be at least. Hence why I stated that the sooner the better that Phillips gets up-to-speed and Walker gets out of the way.

No McDowell...Garrett with no discipline as usual...and no Clowney...means JOK has to imitate Wali Ranier. I did not like the pick at first...at all...but the kid has changed my mind.

One positive: Nick Harris has done admirably

Baker playing hurt and KS is relying too much on money ball. It needs to be used with common sense and situational awareness.

Those and the face mask on Baker. The one false star was blatant offsides by Packers. Without these, Browns win the game.

We could afford our QB to have three or two interceptions. Not four.

Well the last one should have never been allowed to stand so....

Ok. So we’ll take that one away and give him the one that the defender dropped.

(Also, if he hits either throw to a pretty open Njoku then the interception never has to happen).

Well then we'll add the one the Packer's DB "should"have caught.Comes out the same.

no

I can see how you come to this conclusion. The game changing bogus calls/non calls that are absolutely killing us continued yesterday. All season long, the no calls against the linemen obviously holding Garrett. The 2 no call PI's/holding against DPJ, the missed facemask yesterday. The phantom PI calls at the end of several games this year. A couple crappy roughing the passer penalties that extended drives for the opposition. You can probably point to at least 1-2 horrible calls in 4-5 of our losses this year that, if called correctly, would have given us the win. I didn't even mention the obvious attempt to give the rats the advantage on the onsides kick, as that didn't cost us the game.

The truth has been revealed!

Do you really not see the difference between a player failing to execute an Int because he dropped it and another player unable to make a reception because he was interferred with?

Seeing the difference is the basis of the argument.

You cant if you have your shade Bakers on

At the end of every season Football Outsiders reviews game tape and makes a stat called adjusted interceptions. They remove all the interceptions that are not the QBs fault (for example, if the receiver drops the pass and it’s intercepted). They also add interceptions that were the QBs fault but didn’t happen (for example, the defender dropped the ball). They do this to give a clearer picture of how the QB actually played instead of using the raw stats.

Given that information, do you think Baker deserved to have an interception on the previously discussed play or not?

I see alot of crying and sour grapes because the Browns showed they were fools gold this year
Every die hard and caual fan of the Browns had them automatically playoff bound winning
The North.
Yeah the league has it in for the Browns. Thats the stupidest observation ive seen since
The Browns were playoff bound in the year of return
Every NFL team can claim the refs have blown calls in every game.
Yeah the.fix is in. The league hates the Browns. They must hate the Lions too.since they
Havent won anything since 1955

The truth is the Browns underachieved this year.
Baker Mayfield cost the Browns that game. Franchise QBs dont melt in the last 3-mins
Of games.
The Browns did well in the 3-TE sets. But those sets can only get you so far.
Defenses can eventually condense everything down

I believe he does not deserve an Int when no interception was made due to a DB's failure to execute. I also believe he does not deserve an Int because his receiver was interferred with, preventing him from catching a catchable ball. It was the failure to execute by the referee that allowed that to happen.

This is pretty funny.

The game was lost, period. The team lost. Some players played well and some did not. Stefanski called some good plays and some bad. I will say that our wideouts can’t appear to get separation and when Baker throws into tight coverage the ball doesn’t seem to go where our guy can make a play. Yes, the refs stunk but, generally, the refs always stink.

I agree on Baker playing hurt,,, so why not put in a back up? I don't have an answer for that. As for KS relying too much on Money Ball, I guess I don't understand that. I felt Money Ball was more about how you put the team together, not so much on how you coach it on Game Day

I meant analytics

And by analytics do you mean passing instead of running?

What I saw is another game that we should have won but lost.

I will start where we left off last week. We have a nice drive. Score a touchdown and - miss the xtra point. Immediately I felt that point would hurt.
It did hurt because when we scored another TD and went for two we came away with nothing. Result 2 points off the Board.

The Packers are a good team led by a HOF'er. Going into the game I knew it would be really hard to outscore them. Felt like we had to hold them to 17 points or less.

We played damn well on defense with a depleted roster.

Hard to expect a win with four int's against the Packers.

No question about the hold. He was held.

There is no conspiracy against the Browns. That is a load of crap. Ref's make bad calls. It happens to all teams. Remember the Saints.

There is no excuse for Baker in this game. He cost us big time. He made bad decisions and horrible throws.

If the Browns are ever going to win a championship. They must learn how to win games like this one, the Raider's game and the Steeler's game.

We have good players on the Browns. We have a good coaching staff and a good young GM.

This has been a difficult season. The team we thought we had coming into the first game. Never played a single game together. We are not alone. It happened to other teams. We are fortunate to be going into next week with a decent chance to be in the playoffs. So I am excited about that.
You don't give up till it is over. The Braves proved that this year in baseball.

Going forward we should have most of our players back. If we can beat the Steelers and the Bengals. We have to accept what else happens. Playoffs or not.

Personally, on Baker he must improve. I still believe he can. But that is not a given. We have two games to play and maybe more. Baker may never be a great quarterback but I do believe we can win with him. However, at the same time; he must improve. Only time will tell if that happens.

I expect him to be our quarterback next year. At the same time Andrew Berry has to plan for the worse case scenario.

Yup, Refs stole another one. The Chargers game and now this one. The other losses were just us playing bad, but those 2 games sure seem important don't they?

It's so obviously incorrect officiating. The only reason anyone says otherwise is they're so conditioned to say it doesn't matter and should've won anyways.

I'm not even saying there's a conspiracy. That gets into assumption territory. If you watch the games, you can clearly see the Refs are messing up on a REGULAR BASIS, NOT JUST 'ONE PLAY'. We also know that the owners are not doing anything to fix it. This isn't the old days where the video was grainy and there was no YouTube to rewatch over and over. We can see the Refs are wrong, owners need to fix it, or get looped in with the WWE as entertainment, not sports.

I totally agree, there's no conspiracy against the Browns. Watch any game, the Refs are messing up all over the place. FIX IT. Until they do I won't be spending another cent on the NFL.

Just tired of us week after week having to not only defeat our opposition but also have to do so with a definite disadvantage regarding calls.

Look its hard to believe there is a "Conspiracy" out there - Possibly from that game where the fans threw bottles of water chasing the refs off the field. But I'm tired of seeing our QB in the pocket in front of the white hat get his head yanked around with a face mask and there is NO CALL. I'm tired of us getting called for a hold with the announcers stating that it was a ticky tack call...then I see our guy with the OL grappling their neck and having him fall to the ground and no call made.

I am now getting more and more obvious holding calls seen made against our WRs where you can see our Jersey's being held again in an obvious situation that all can see.

Are there bad calls made against other teams...yes, definitely but it seems to ALWAYS be against us. I know a couple of weeks ago I heard we were the most penalized team in the NFL...I mean come on! Just sick of this happening week after week and when it happens on one of the first plays for us that instead of a long gain we get an early INT that changes the attitude of a struggling team.

JOK is btw an excellent player as is Ward - I'm trying to wonder what the confusion was on that ONE PLAY it definitely had something to do with stopping the clock creating that indecision???

Garrett was going through the motions as he had a pretty bad groin injury but we didn't have the bodies and he played because we had men down due to covid...how can we complain about his play. Greedy made the one INT but if he played with the Heart that Stewart plays with he would be great. I wanted us to take the attitude of running the ball and committing to use all 4 downs in a run attack!!!

Kicking game hurt but we got somebody off the couch to play for us. What can you do. well off to another Steeler game I know its a game we can and should win but we will see how this turns out. Baker btw cannot have ANY turn overs not this one or two or three thing spoken about. One is too many!

Its a vision thing and he has to get deeper in his steps so that he can see the field easier...the closer he is to the LOS the less he can see. All he has to do is step back deeper in the pocket.

Well everyone have a Happy New Year and please stay safe - Don't drink and drive!!!

I saw the Ref's doing the lambeau Leap after the game.

The Browns biggest opponent isnt the refs or the league
Its themselves. There is talent up and down the roster
But this lacks finishers when the game is within reach
Of winning.
And it all.starts with the QB Captain Choke.
He simply cannot make plays when it matters the most.
By far he lacks the intangibles to be a franchise QB

That's the difference between a losing culture and a winning one. I thought after last season we turned the corner; we didn't. For the past 20 years when we had some optimism for a good season, and it was only for maybe 3, we failed miserably. We have as much talent now as I've seen in 54 years of being a Browns fan and we are 7-8. Terrible!!

Talent yes, enough talent.... nope. Like everybody else in the NFL. We can't have many injuries, or covid cases, and we gave had a crap load of both.

And yet we saw those intangibles early on in his career. As a rookie he had what 20 TD and Zero INTS from the red zone. Some amazing stuff so its hard for me to believe without just disliking the guy when there is evidence of him being that franchise QB...what happened?

The biggest change is Stefanski....he did not pick Baker. He wants his own QB that he chooses so instead of building an O around a Franchise QB he has chosen to make Baker into a round peg trying to fit a square hole. Sorry nobody can tell me I didn't see what transpired that rookie season and then it was a different O and another different O and then another and this last one instead of tailoring it to Baker as in even the first year into the offense then SKI tried to make Baker into a 6'5" QB Who would stand in the pocket and throw accurately. Baker is not that guy and instead of tailoring our O to what Baker does best we tried to make a Cousins out of him - Ski would like to have Goff as our QB - how many times have you heard Ski say...BAKER is my guy and I stand by him 100% How many - what HC does that. Oh he's said Baker is our QB as in we are stuck with him. I am tired of these EGOtistical HC that sacrifice the TEAM and try to make a great QB into HIS average QB...sorry if you don't see this its not my fault. I thought we finally got our guy and it went to his head especially winning coach of the year. And here we are still in it. but our FRANCHISE QB has a broken confidence he went from amazing to Sanchez in front of our eyes. Baker choke...yep that is what the guy is all about .
that rookie year and the way he played is just a figment of our imaginations. Ski has some decent plays and schemes but he has failed in a coach cause he would rather have us struggle and collapse than prosper with a QB not in his design. I don't wish for a change in scheme or a change in QB - I do wish for a HC who can design a scheme of what Baker does well rather than force Baker to be that Case Keenum QB...smh

I hope you are wrong

Just watch closely that is all I ask and then decide ...Oh and his weapons as advertised are not that good as reported.

EO your post makes some sense. I'm coming to the realization that there is a lot going on behind the scenes that we don't know about. Too much needless drama this year.

Everybody is out to get Baker. Even Stefanski who "wants his own guy". Haven't you been keeping up? Yet oddly enough, Stefnaski is the same coach that helped coach this team to the playoffs last year with an 11-5 record using Baker as his starting QB. It must be the new math.