DawgTalkers.net
Holdout won't settle because Browns' Deshaun Watson 'still refuses to admit that he harassed and committed indecent assault'

Shortly after it was learned earlier this month that NFL disciplinary officer Sue L. Robinson initially recommended a six-game suspension for Cleveland Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson regarding allegations of sexual misconduct during massage sessions, attorney Tony Buzbee confirmed that his legal team had settled 23 of 24 civil lawsuits brought against Watson.

"We will continue to discuss the remaining case with Watson’s legal team, as appropriate," the attorney representing the plaintiffs suing the signal-caller added at that time.

On Thursday, the NFL confirmed a settlement with the NFL Players Association that resulted in Watson receiving an 11-game ban and a $5 million fine. Per the league's website, the deal "requires compliance with a professional evaluation and treatment plan."

Watson has since publicly insisted he "never assaulted anyone or disrespected anyone" even though he apologized last Friday "to all of the women that I have impacted in this situation." As Mike Florio noted for Pro Football Talk, a former massage therapist named Lauren Baxley explained why she remains the lone holdout in the civil cases for a piece published early Friday morning by the Daily Beast.

"I have rejected all settlement offers, in part because they have not included any sincere acknowledgment of remorse and wrongdoings, nor have they included any promises of rehabilitative treatment," Baxley said. "Watson still refuses to admit that he harassed and committed indecent assault against me. Any settlement offer he has made has been a dismissal of his evil actions, and I know that unless there is an authoritative intervention, he will continue his destructive behavior."

Two grand juries declined to indict Watson earlier this year.

"Because Watson repeatedly assaulted women, the institutions and individuals who currently uphold and employ him must also be held accountable," Baxley continued. "I am just one of dozens of women whose lives have been eternally harmed by his sexual violence. Even one more victim is outrageous.

"I will say again: All non-consensual sexual acts are a violence, particularly when the predator far outweighs his victims in physical stature and influential power. And inherent and unspoken threats are just as damaging to the psyche as explicit threats. I will never cease my attempts to educate on this point."

The National Organization of Women, the president and founder of the Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network, and the Cleveland Rape Crisis Center have all released statements reacting to Watson's punishment.

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/arti...UOIc4pM2XYRxGVJ0navXr9Df-9ThidxF-Fta5YME

This seems like a very odd, new twist to this story. You see, many including myself thought that if watson said anything or admitted the truth about what actually happened with these women it would be used against him in the lone remaining civil suit.

When the fact is it seems his unwillingness to include such language in the civil suit settlement agreement seems to be what's preventing the suit from being settled. It seems all she is asking for is that the language of the settlement agreement include language admitting wrongdoing and him getting specific counseling for his conduct.

I made sure to place the new thread in Tailgate so we don't have to hear Vers keep whining.
National Organization for Women: Deshaun Watson Suspension 'Nowhere Near Enough'

The National Organization for Women criticized the 11-game suspension and $5 million fine given to Deshaun Watson on Thursday, as agreed upon by the NFL and NFLPA, saying it's "nowhere near enough."

"That $5 million represents 2.1739 percent of Watson’s new $230 million contract with the Cleveland Browns, which was negotiated after more than two dozen women had accused the star athlete of sexual misconduct," the advocacy group said in a statement. "NOW is pleased to see behavioral evaluation and treatment recognized as best practices by the NFL, but they have a lot to learn about math."

Watson—who was accused of sexual assault and sexual misconduct by 25 different women in civil lawsuits filed against him—was originally suspended six games by independent arbitrator Sue L. Robinson.

The NFL appealed that suspension and sought at least a one-year ban, and the league and NFLPA settled on Thursday's punishment.

For NOW, that decision fell short of the mark.

"Women need more than empty words and half-measures. The culture of toxic masculinity within the NFL must change—NOW," its statement read. "Deshaun Watson’s career and wealth won’t be damaged by this decision—unlike the dozens of women he has irreparably harmed. No, this isn’t good enough."

Watson has since settled 23 of the 25 lawsuits against him, and one has been dropped. Two separate grand juries in Texas also declined to pursue criminal charges.

In March he was traded to the Browns and signed a fully guaranteed five-year, $230 million contract. The Browns structured his contract to include a base salary of just $1 million in 2022, with many critics of the move arguing that the team did so to help alleviate as much potential financial impact from a suspension as possible.

Peter King of NBC Sports reported the following in March after the deal was signed:

"Jimmy and Dee Haslam. Not the most popular people at the league meetings on Sunday. I heard lots of grumbling from those who think a) trading six picks for a player who may be found guilty of heinous offenses or b) signing Watson to the richest guaranteed contract in league history and giving him an $80-million raise 'stinks to high heaven,' as one team exec said. The Haslams had to know it was coming, and now that they've traded for and signed Watson, it's not going away."

On Thursday, Watson vacillated between being remorseful and maintaining that he believes he did nothing wrong, a somewhat contradictory approach.

"I'll continue to stand on my innocence, just because you know settlements, and things like that happen doesn't mean that a person is guilty for anything," he told reporters. "I feel like a person has an opportunity to stand on his innocence and prove that, and we proved that from a legal side, and just going to continue to push forward as an individual and as a person."

As for why he apologized in his public statement if he felt he was innocent, Watson responded: "For everyone that was affected by this situation. There were a lot of people that were triggered."

"We respect his opinion," Browns co-owner Dee Haslam told reporters when asked about Watson proclaiming his innocence. "I do think in counseling Deshaun will learn a lot more about himself."

Whether he received enough of a punishment as he goes through that process remains a hotbed topic around the NFL.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...un-watson-suspension-nowhere-near-enough
Cleveland Rape Crisis Center 'stands with those who have been hurt' by Browns' Deshaun Watson

The settlement between the NFL and NFL Players Association that resulted in Cleveland Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson receiving an 11-game suspension and a $5 million fine regarding allegations of sexual misconduct during massage sessions has understandably elicited strong reactions from both within and outside of the football community.

The National Organization of Women heavily criticized a punishment it said "is nowhere near enough," and Scott Berkowitz, the founder and president of the Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network, commented that "Watson had a chance to show he could change, and he immediately blew it" by not offering a sincere apology for his actions on Thursday.

Attorney Tony Buzbee, who represented the plaintiffs in 24 civil lawsuits brought against Watson, remarked in a statement that "the NFL has certainly demonstrated that its ownership and the organization don’t care" about sexual assault, and former NFL quarterback and current ESPN personality Robert Griffin III tweeted that the league "failed" women with a "sickening" punishment.

The Cleveland Rape Crisis Center previously responded to the initial six-game ban for Watson recommended by NFL disciplinary officer Sue L. Robinson earlier this month and released a new statement following Thursday's update on the 26-year-old's status.

"Cleveland Rape Crisis Center stands with those who have been hurt by Deshaun Watson," that organization said.

Per the NFL's website, the Browns and the league are each contributing $1 million that will be added to Watson's fine to "create a fund of $7 million to support the prevention of sexual misconduct and assault." That fund will "support the work of non-profit organizations across the country that educate young people on healthy relationships, promote education and prevention of sexual misconduct and assault, support survivors, and related causes."

Two grand juries declined to indict Watson on criminal charges long before Judge Robinson made her ruling.

"While traditional avenues of criminal justice may have failed his accusers, today’s NFL and NFLPA settlement of increased punishment is a step towards validating their experiences. Healing comes to survivors in many forms," the Cleveland Rape Crisis Center continued.

"Cleveland Rape Crisis Center believes and supports survivors. Continued headlines are triggering for many. Our staff is available 24/7/365 online or by calling/texting (216) 619-6192."

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/arti..._browns_deshaun_watson/s1_13132_37790549
Florio: Watson's post-settlement denial could compromise reinstatement

Deshaun Watson is tentatively scheduled to make his Browns debut in Week 13 after he serves an 11-game suspension.

But by at least one insider's account, it's far from a given that it will transpire that way.

That's because, according to Mike Florio of Pro Football Talk, Watson and his camp may have violated his settlement with the NFL by proclaiming his innocence on Thursday, shortly after terms of the deal were announced.

Part of Watson's suspension calls for an independent psychiatric evaluation and treatment, and, according to Florio, it's hard to imagine a therapist signing off on Watson's progress if he's maintaining that he did nothing wrong.

Last week, Watson apologized to his accusers for "wrongdoing" during an interview with a Browns sideline reporter. But Florio thinks Watson's apparent about-face on accepting responsibility for his alleged actions won't sit well with the league, and, more importantly, the person who is evaluating his mental health.

As ESPN's Adam Schefter noted, the settlement calls for Watson's compliance with the evaluation, and "if he doesn't comply, his reinstatement could be delayed, plus further discipline." Part of that compliance, Florio suggests, is accepting responsibility for his alleged actions.

Yet on Thursday, Watson appeared to double down on the idea that he did nothing wrong, and seemed to apologize to those who were "triggered" by the allegations rather than to the accusers themselves.

“I’ve always stood on my innocence, and always said I’ve never assaulted anyone or disrespected anyone, and I’m continuing to stand on that,” Watson said.

Watson was asked, why apologize if he did nothing wrong?

“For everyone that was affected by this situation,” Watson said. “There was a lot of people that were triggered.”

Meanwhile Watson's agent, David Mulugheta, deleted a tweet in which he attacked the ruling of arbitrator Sue L. Robinson, then followed up with a tweet claiming that Watson's maintains his innocence, irrespective of the settlement.

Florio likened the Watson camp's seeming narrative reversal to a "criminal defendant who signs a plea agreement before proclaiming he didn't do it."

https://www.audacy.com/theteam980/s...hy_nNrHRU2GoP-oUJKmPonLdqq50W5ZxwWC8W1F4
This was my first thought when he made that statement of 'still innocent'. I couldn't see how any mental help he's supposedly getting wouldn't mandate he accept what he did as wrong. And it sure sounded like a slap in the face to whoever negotiated this settlement. Oh well, he's Jimmy's problem now. If the Browns can't get through to him in the position he is in, the public will via backlash against the NFL, who will most definitely let that crap roll downhill and land in Watson's and the Brown's lap. You just can't reach or teach some people, and he may very well be one.
I care more about the Cleveland Browns winning.
It seems you are not alone. Many seem to make that a higher priority than his victims.
Nope. His victims got paid. They settled. (All but one, obviously.)
Now I just want to watch the Browns. I’ll root for the Browns. If Watson suits up I’ll root for the Browns. When Watson retires I’ll root for the Browns.
I have no control over the roster. Yet I root for the Browns.
The team will sign, draft, cut, resign, etc players over the course of my life. Never once asking my opinion. Yet I’ll root for the Browns.

I want the team to win… because I root for the Browns.

I’ll go to work M-F and do a job I honestly wish I no longer had to do. Then spend my weekends creating art. In the fall and winter I’ll look forward to Sunday’s because of the Browns. Then Monday will come… rinse and repeat until they put me in a box in the ground. Likely before Watson goes in his. Either way life will go on. Without me. Without Watson. Likely one day in the distant future it’ll go on without the NFL and the Browns at all.

Until I’m in my box…
Go Browns.


If you see that as me not giving a crap about Watson’s victims. You’re wrong. I have no control over him, the team, the courts, the women… none of it.

I’m a Browns fan. I’m not going to let one player ruin it. Art Modell tried to ruin it by taking the team from me/us… and failed. Watson doesn’t stand a chance compared to what Art did.


Go Browns.
Me too.
Originally Posted by PortlandDawg
Nope. His victims got paid. They settled. (All but one, obviously.)
Now I just want to watch the Browns. I’ll root for the Browns. If Watson suits up I’ll root for the Browns. When Watson retires I’ll root for the Browns.
I have no control over the roster. Yet I root for the Browns.
The team will sign, draft, cut, resign, etc players over the course of my life. Never once asking my opinion. Yet I’ll root for the Browns.

I want the team to win… because I root for the Browns.

I’ll go to work M-F and do a job I honestly wish I no longer had to do. Then spend my weekends creating art. In the fall and winter I’ll look forward to Sunday’s because of the Browns. Then Monday will come… rinse and repeat until they put me in a box in the ground. Likely before Watson goes in his. Either way life will go on. Without me. Without Watson. Likely one day in the distant future it’ll go on without the NFL and the Browns at all.

Until I’m in my box…
Go Browns.


If you see that as me not giving a crap about Watson’s victims. You’re wrong. I have no control over him, the team, the courts, the women… none of it.

I’m a Browns fan. I’m not going to let one player ruin it. Art Modell tried to ruin it by taking the team from me/us… and failed. Watson doesn’t stand a chance compared to what Art did.


Go Browns.

Boom.

/thread
Great post
Originally Posted by PortlandDawg
Until I’m in my box…
Go Browns.

You forgot to add.... "No matter gross or despicable".


Quote
If you see that as me not giving a crap about Watson’s victims. You’re wrong. I have no control over him, the team, the courts, the women… none of it.

I’m a Browns fan. I’m not going to let one player ruin it. Art Modell tried to ruin it by taking the team from me/us… and failed. Watson doesn’t stand a chance compared to what Art did.


Go Browns.

It seems obvious once again that you feel moving the team is more important than sexual assault victims. Man, seeing people's priority lists I find to be very revealing.

You are supporting Haslam no matter how you slice it. You hated Modell but are helping line Halslam's pockets for bringing a sexual predator here as the face of the franchise for years to come. No amount of rationalization will change that.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
It seems obvious once again that you feel moving the team is more important than sexual assault victims. Man, seeing people's priority lists I find to be very revealing.

You are supporting Haslam no matter how you slice it. You hated Modell but are helping line Halslam's pockets for bringing a sexual predator here as the face of the franchise for years to come. No amount of rationalization will change that.

And you continue to associate with us. I think you secretly want the Browns to win at all costs, but you have to continue to beat your little drum so you think everyone believes you to be virtuous and above reproach.
So leave if you’re so miserable.
It was nice having you on the board, as a fellow fan.
Sounds like you’re no longer a fan. Bye.


I don’t “line the Haslem’s pockets” anymore than by buying the NFL season ticket. I don’t go to games. I don’t buy Browns’ gear. I like to watch football. I like to watch the Browns.
I won’t make myself miserable about crap that’s out of my control.

You’ve chosen the path of misery. What Watson did was gross. I won’t argue with you. If it’s something you’re unable to get past… we’ll see you in a few years when Watson no longer plays for the Browns. Until then… been nice knowing you.

Go Browns.

(I’m not going to get drawn into a back and forth with you. You’ve chosen your stance. I won’t begrudge you. I’m still a Browns fan. Don’t begrudge me.)
Da hell is going on? I 'liked' 2 of your posts in the same day!

I'd like to say what pit is on record as saying - but I won't. It'll just give lwl a reason to post, belittle, and demean. Everyone knows what he said anyway.
Originally Posted by FrankZ
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
It seems obvious once again that you feel moving the team is more important than sexual assault victims. Man, seeing people's priority lists I find to be very revealing.

You are supporting Haslam no matter how you slice it. You hated Modell but are helping line Halslam's pockets for bringing a sexual predator here as the face of the franchise for years to come. No amount of rationalization will change that.

And you continue to associate with us. I think you secretly want the Browns to win at all costs, but you have to continue to beat your little drum so you think everyone believes you to be virtuous and above reproach.

You do realize that simply not being a sexual offender nor supporting a sexual offender isn't a sign of virtue, right? Nor does it make you above reproach. It's a simply sign of common human decency. There's a huge chasm between the two. It's not like we're discussing a traffic offense here. I have a wife, a daughter and a sister. None of whom think sexual abuse is some minor offense that is a threshold for virtue. It's disgusting.
Originally Posted by archbolddawg
Da hell is going on? I 'liked' 2 of your posts in the same day!

I'd like to say what pit is on record as saying - but I won't. It'll just give lwl a reason to post, belittle, and demean. Everyone knows what he said anyway.

I know everyone acted like my signature was crazy and were outraged by it. Then Sue Robinson called him a predator. If you're going to call me out man up and do it. Don't half ass it.
Originally Posted by PortlandDawg
So leave if you’re so miserable.
It was nice having you on the board, as a fellow fan.
Sounds like you’re no longer a fan. Bye.

I'm not going anywhere but thanks for showing you think you have some right to dictate who posts on this board.


Quote
I don’t “line the Haslem’s pockets” anymore than by buying the NFL season ticket. I don’t go to games. I don’t buy Browns’ gear. I like to watch football. I like to watch the Browns.
I won’t make myself miserable about crap that’s out of my control.

What happened was out of your control. What you do and how you react to iy are 100% in your control.

Quote
You’ve chosen the path of misery. What Watson did was gross. I won’t argue with you. If it’s something you’re unable to get past… we’ll see you in a few years when Watson no longer plays for the Browns. Until then… been nice knowing you.

It's not misery. Why do you think it is? And you'll see me now, tomorrow and so on. I'm not going anywhere. I have been a fan of this team for well over 55 years. What Haslam has done and what watson has done is beyond any form of human decency.

Quote
(I’m not going to get drawn into a back and forth with you. You’ve chosen your stance. I won’t begrudge you. I’m still a Browns fan. Don’t begrudge me.)

Nobody asked you to respond to this thread. That was your own choice. As I said earlier you have no control over what I post, but you do control your reaction to it. But I guess this is somehow different? I don't begrudge anyone. But I'm certainly going to post and update anything involving the watson story. It's a part of what you have chosen to accept. It's a part of this team now. He's the face of this franchise. I would have thought by now people would have figured out that I will not be shouted down or pressured into caving to the whims of others.

As much as many of you hate it, he's your QB now. He's what you and many others have chosen to support. That's not on me. Just a reflection on those who have decided to do so.
Derp. You win. I’m no longer a Browns fan.

Go Browns.
Well said.

I watch sports for entertainment purposes. I do not associate watching sports or rooting for certain teams to political, social, religious, economic, etc stances. In fact, it's cool to get away from all that depressing stuff and just be entertained for awhile.

Like you, I don't begrudge anyone for not rooting for the Browns. Rooting for one team or another or hating one team or another is a personal choice. Hell, when I met my wife, we lived in different states. She had season tickets to the Steelers games and I had season tickets to the Browns games. To think that we wouldn't have a relationship due to what team we supported is insane.

I will say that my only issue w/the current climate is how some folks are trying to shame others into feeling a certain way. Saying things like we don't care about the victims. That's rather disturbing.

There are a ton of terrible things going on in our country and this world. But, I wouldn't turn my back on our country just because I may not have liked a certain president.There is way too much drama in regards to this topic. I think a lot of us are in the same boat as you are. We are going to root for the Browns no matter what anyone says. And have fun doing it.
Anyone remember the poster PDX?
He stood by his convictions. He totally renounced his Browns fandom with the Watson signing. Sold ALL his gear and memorabilia. He quit DT. He’s done.
I commend him for his resolve. That said we’re friends in the ‘real world’. He holds no ill will towards me when he comes by to hang out.

If you don’t like the team, don’t like them.
I’m not the team.

Go Browns. (Notice I didn’t say ‘go Watson’?)
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
I do not associate watching sports or rooting for certain teams to political, social, religious, economic, etc stances.

And this is none of those things. I don't care who watson voted for, how much money he makes, what his religion is or his social stands. Even though many had a cow when players knelt for the national anthem. Now who would make a huge issue over the national anthem but not make the sexual assault of women a higher priority? Things that make you go hmmm for $500 Alex. But I understand why people wish to deflect away from what he actually did and why they've chosen not to give a damn about it.
You didn't have to say "go watson" when you say go browns. He's not only a brown, he's the face of the franchise.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Originally Posted by FrankZ
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
It seems obvious once again that you feel moving the team is more important than sexual assault victims. Man, seeing people's priority lists I find to be very revealing.

You are supporting Haslam no matter how you slice it. You hated Modell but are helping line Halslam's pockets for bringing a sexual predator here as the face of the franchise for years to come. No amount of rationalization will change that.

And you continue to associate with us. I think you secretly want the Browns to win at all costs, but you have to continue to beat your little drum so you think everyone believes you to be virtuous and above reproach.

You do realize that simply not being a sexual offender nor supporting a sexual offender isn't a sign of virtue, right? Nor does it make you above reproach. It's a simply sign of common human decency. There's a huge chasm between the two. It's not like we're discussing a traffic offense here. I have a wife, a daughter and a sister. None of whom think sexual abuse is some minor offense that is a threshold for virtue. It's disgusting.

You do realize Watson was never actually convicted of anything? You do realize that Wason was only found to have violated a very broad employment condition?

You do realize you beat the drum so you can try and make everyone else miserable instead of actually trying to affect any real chage? You do realize a lot of people are tired of your tired old schtick? You do realize people are moving on? You do realize that the NFL got their pound of flesh and the the accusers got paid?

See, I can do the "you do realize BS as well.

Pah-rump-a-pum-pum drummer boy.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
What you do and how you react to iy are 100% in your control.

What are you doing besides coming on here and posting about it?
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
You didn't have to say "go watson" when you say go browns. He's not only a brown, he's the face of the franchise.

But didn’t you see the other post I made where I said you won and that I’m no longer a Browns fan like you want us all to no longer be?







Go Browns.



Honestly, what do you want from us, from me? To not be a Browns fan? Cuz it just isn’t going to happen. So what’s next? Do you want me to hate Watson’s actions?… FYI I do.
Do you want me to come to DT to continuously hate on the Browns?

What actions are you looking for from me? What can I do to placate you?





Go Browns.
That's pretty finny. Sue Robinson was asked to rule on the violations. That much is true. She was not however asked to rule on her findings of his actions as it pertains to the details.

She wasn't asked to include in her findings that he is a liar. Nor was she asked to find that he was a predator. Nor was she asked to conclude that his actions were egregious. After three full days of testimony from both sides these were her conclusions. And none of that was contained or requested in what you describe as "very broad employment conditions".

You do realize nobody is forcing anyone to read this thread if it makes them feel "miserable", right? naughtydevil

Quote
You do realize a lot of people are tired of your tired old schtick? You do realize people are moving on?

Yet here you are.....
I'm not looking for anything from you. I'm posting on watson stories surrounding his disgusting actions just like fans do any other news pertaining to the browns. It just seems to be news that nobody wants to hear and that people insist on justifying that football means more to them. And hey, that's their choice no matter how disgusting I find that to be. People have the choice not to read this thread. They have the choice not to respond to it.

Remember? You have no control over the roster. You also have no control over what I post and the stories that come out about watson. Yet oddly enough on the one hand you say you not having any control equates to you not taking a stand. When I post about watson you certainly change your attitude about how you react to something you can't control. I wonder why you treat the two situations so differently?
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
That's pretty finny. Sue Robinson was asked to rule on the violations. That much is true. She was not however asked to rule on her findings of his actions as it pertains to the details.

She wasn't asked to include in her findings that he is a liar. Nor was she asked to find that he was a predator. Nor was she asked to conclude that his actions were egregious. After three full days of testimony from both sides these were her conclusions. And none of that was contained or requested in what you describe as "very broad employment conditions".

You do realize nobody is forcing anyone to read this thread if it makes them feel "miserable", right? naughtydevil

Quote
You do realize a lot of people are tired of your tired old schtick? You do realize people are moving on?

Yet here you are.....

Sue Robison made it clear in her report that the NFL did not have a previous definition and she admonished them for that.

You do realize you are here to fight, right?
You do you Pit. Enjoy.


Go Browns.

I’m out.

Go Browns.
None of what you stated changes anything about her finding his actions predatory. Can you show me where the NFL defined, or in any way asked for her to define or call watson's actions predatory? How about egregious? Did the NFL define what a liar was or ask her to conclude whether watson was a liar or not?

I'll help save you some time. No they did not.
Just a few more details involving the woman who is refusing to settle her lawsuit against watson.....

The Cleveland Browns quarterback has settled with 23 of the 24 women who accused him of sexual misconduct. I am the lone holdout. Let me explain why.

On Aug. 18, the NFL and the Cleveland Browns agreed to suspend quarterback Deshaun Watson for 11 games and fine him $5 million after 24 women accused him of varying degrees of sexual misconduct during massage therapy sessions (he signed a $230 million contract with the Browns this offsesason). All of his accusers agreed to financial settlements with Watson. Except one.........

My name is Lauren Baxley. I am a former massage therapist, having quit the only career I have known in May of this year.

I was forced into quitting for the sake of my health and life; I have not felt safe providing therapy since before June of 2020.

I am the remaining plaintiff against Deshaun Watson, the Cleveland Browns quarterback who harassed and committed indecent assault against me.

I have rejected all settlement offers, in part because they have not included any sincere acknowledgment of remorse and wrongdoings, nor have they included any promises of rehabilitative treatment. Watson still refuses to admit that he harassed and committed indecent assault against me. Any settlement offer he has made has been a dismissal of his evil actions, and I know that unless there is an authoritative intervention, he will continue his destructive behavior.

Because Watson repeatedly assaulted women, the institutions and individuals who currently uphold and employ him must also be held accountable.

I am just one of dozens of women whose lives have been eternally harmed by his sexual violence. Even one more victim is outrageous.

I will say again: All non-consensual sexual acts are a violence, particularly when the predator far outweighs his victims in physical stature and influential power. And inherent and unspoken threats are just as damaging to the psyche as explicit threats. I will never cease my attempts to educate on this point.

I sincerely, with humility in my relative anonymity, ask that those in power over Deshaun Watson make swift and stringent decisions to prevent further acts of harm against women. Please remember the women who have decided they could no longer fight this legal battle after multiple courts, and multiple fandoms, told them their lives didn’t matter.

Please remember his victims who did not sue, and please take action for survivors everywhere.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/why-im-refusing-to-settle-with-nfl-star-deshaun-watson?ref=scroll
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
None of what you stated changes anything about her finding his actions predatory. Can you show me where the NFL defined, or in any way asked for her to define or call watson's actions predatory? How about egregious? Did the NFL define what a liar was or ask her to conclude whether watson was a liar or not?

I'll help save you some time. No they did not.

Actually it does. A finding based on an unsound process is unsound. I get that you are an end-means kind of person, the end is all you care about. I believe in a sound process, which was not the case in this.

You do not know what she was asked or not asked to do, you were not in any investigative meetings, the hearing, or any follow up meetings. You assert points that you cannot prove as you have no intimate knowledge of the process. So keep your help to yourself, you know far less than you care to admit and you only care to see the end finding, and only of that which you wish to see.
Name calling in the thread title by the original poster. Hmm.
Someone must be lonely. Start a thread and have 17 of the 33 posts in it. Wasn't there another thread already on here regarding the same subject? And here I thought all the things regarding this situation had already been discussed.


Would it help if the Browns signed Keanu Reeves hoping to balance out the bad the Browns have done by Watson's signing? He is supposed to be a really great guy. Maybe we can get him from the Sentinels for a 7th round pick.
Shane Falco is a saint!
Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie
Shane Falco is a saint!

Keanue Reeves played an ex-college QB from the same college in two different movies. Name the movies and the college!
Originally Posted by Rishuz
Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie
Shane Falco is a saint!

Keanue Reeves played an ex-college QB from the same college in two different movies. Name the movies and the college!

The Replacements (Shane Falco) and Point Break (Johnny Utah).

Played for Ohio State. Johnny Utah won the Rose Bowl! (I think)
Originally Posted by Milk Man
Originally Posted by Rishuz
Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie
Shane Falco is a saint!

Keanue Reeves played an ex-college QB from the same college in two different movies. Name the movies and the college!

The Replacements (Shane Falco) and Point Break (Johnny Utah).

Played for Ohio State. Johnny Utah won the Rose Bowl! (I think)

I don't know about the Rose Bowl in Point Break, but Shane Falco definitely lost the Sugar Bowl.
On a Browns message board the Browns winning is the Priority.
You can put social issues as a priority when you are standing in front of a clinic holding a sign.
By the way, how well does your internet device work if you are standing in front of a clinic holding a sign, and if you are looking at it, (your mobile internet device), then how are you paying enough attention to getting your message across, to the people who may be having a look at your sign, while you are standing in front of a clinic,
or do you even care about the social issues at all. I'm saying that anyone who really cared about the women, wouldn't be posting on a football message board at all.
Do you volunteer your time?
But while I'm posting on the football message board, during that time, I care about the football team,
in this case,
I care about the Browns winning, as I posted, I care more about the Browns winning.

One could say some need their own forum, or actually their own message board, totally separate for anyone who cares about the social issue, and their are so many various and different social issues.
I don't intend to make a false idol out of any of the social issues when it comes to messages on a Browns message board.
Therefore I posted again, I care more about the Browns winning.
and
just like everything on this message board should be followed by,
this post, And anything you'd have to respond to this common sense, should include as a final line, (including your posts should include as a final line)
I said into a mirror.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
This seems like a very odd, new twist to this story. You see, many including myself thought that if watson said anything or admitted the truth about what actually happened with these women it would be used against him in the lone remaining civil suit.

When the fact is it seems his unwillingness to include such language in the civil suit settlement agreement seems to be what's preventing the suit from being settled. It seems all she is asking for is that the language of the settlement agreement include language admitting wrongdoing and him getting specific counseling for his conduct.

It is a new twist, and one that wasn't helped by Watson suddenly flipping back to the original script of claiming innocence. Bro, you just settled 20-some civil suits and a retired judge wrote an essay that was half about how much of a turd human being you are. While he's working on getting the truth out there maybe he can help OJ find the killer (first thing I thought about when Watson said that).

Originally Posted by PitDAWG
I made sure to place the new thread in Tailgate so we don't have to hear Vers keep whining.
And when has that ever stopped you in the past? :-p
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
National Organization for Women: Deshaun Watson Suspension 'Nowhere Near Enough'

The National Organization for Women criticized the 11-game suspension and $5 million fine given to Deshaun Watson on Thursday, as agreed upon by the NFL and NFLPA, saying it's "nowhere near enough."

This is probably me just yelling at the clouds (so take it FWIW), but if people are still going to be so up in arms about Watson getting let off easy, then tell us what you wanted. "More" is not an answer, either. If you're still going to be outraged for (IIRC) the longest punishment dished out for this type of infraction (in the NFL) then you should have something specific in mind. If not, it sounds like they are more mad at the NFL than anything else... or just want to be mad for being mad's sake.

/rant

Originally Posted by PitDawg
"We respect his opinion," Browns co-owner Dee Haslam told reporters when asked about Watson proclaiming his innocence. "I do think in counseling Deshaun will learn a lot more about himself."

Dee with the smack upside the head. I like her more and more I hear from her.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
You do realize that simply not being a sexual offender nor supporting a sexual offender isn't a sign of virtue, right?

Neither is beating that drum of yours.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
I know everyone acted like my signature was crazy and were outraged by it. Then Sue Robinson called him a predator. If you're going to call me out man up and do it. Don't half ass it.

She didn't call him a predator. She said he engaged in predatory behavior. If you're going to beat your chest/white-knight this like you are, you should at least read and understand what she wrote.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Originally Posted by PortlandDawg
So leave if you’re so miserable.
It was nice having you on the board, as a fellow fan.
Sounds like you’re no longer a fan. Bye.

I'm not going anywhere but thanks for showing you think you have some right to dictate who posts on this board.

Taking a page out of your buddy Vers's playbook, I see. For two people that can't stand each other, you two sound remarkably similar.
Originally Posted by oobernoober
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Originally Posted by PortlandDawg
So leave if you’re so miserable.
It was nice having you on the board, as a fellow fan.
Sounds like you’re no longer a fan. Bye.

I'm not going anywhere but thanks for showing you think you have some right to dictate who posts on this board.

Taking a page out of your buddy Vers's playbook, I see. For two people that can't stand each other, you two sound remarkably similar.

Jesus! It never ends on this freaking board.
Originally Posted by oobernoober
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
I'm not going anywhere but thanks for showing you think you have some right to dictate who posts on this board.

Taking a page out of your buddy Vers's playbook, I see. For two people that can't stand each other, you two sound remarkably similar.


We should call him Vice VERSa. grin
Those women got paid. They got what they wanted.
Funny how money can wash away the so called trauma
They endured..If the sight of a body part bothers a massage
Therapist , then they are in the wrong business.
It's time to move on for all parties involved.
Amanda Berry endured 100000x worse at the hands
Of Ariel Castro and she survived and is doing well.
These women can move forward or wallow "woe is me"
You have it backwards. I'm not telling people what to post, where to post or how to post. And objecting to and being disgusted by a sexual predator doesn't make you a white knight. It makes you a normal human being. And speaking of disgusting human beings........

Disgusting behavior from some Browns fans defending Watson

You stay classy Cleveland.

The situation surrounding Deshaun Watson is a serious one. Nearly 30 woman have accused the Browns quarterback with sexual misconduct and 24 filed lawsuits.

All of them have been settled out of court except for one.

After an appeal when he was originally suspended for six games, Watson will now miss the first 11 games of the season and faces a $5 million fine.

“(I apologized) for everybody that was affected by this situation,” Watson said after the suspension was announced. “There were a lot of people that were triggered.”

“We have unbelievable fans,” Browns owner Haslam said. “The fan support has been outstanding. Our ticket sales are great. Our corporate support is outstanding. We are not naïve enough to think that there are not some people who disagree with that. It is our hope that over a period of time, we will win them back.”

Well, some of those “unbelievable” fans are doing something that’s pretty unbelievable.

While it’s only been a small number of Browns fans, incredibly inappropriate and disgusting signs and shirts were seen during Cleveland’s first home game of the preseason on Sunday.

One photo shows a man reportedly selling t-shirts outside FirstEnergy Stadium that read, “b**ch give me a massage.” Another photo shows a man with a boy that could possibly be his son holding extremely offensive signs.

Watson has not been charged with a crime and is innocent until proven guilty, but these kind of messages attacking his accusers is beyond disgusting.

Hopefully these kind of shirts and signs will be confiscated by the people in the Browns organization.

Watson did not dress for Sunday’s game against Philadelphia.

The Browns lost 21-20 to the Eagles.

https://www.audacy.com/937thefan/sp...bgqnwWCM2_zpvXThytYeYw30H-UEy1aGDFBcOgXQ
Originally Posted by oobernoober
She didn't call him a predator. She said he engaged in predatory behavior.

Trying to split a very fine hair really doesn't work.
Originally Posted by FrankZ
You do not know what she was asked or not asked to do, you were not in any investigative meetings, the hearing, or any follow up meetings. You assert points that you cannot prove as you have no intimate knowledge of the process. So keep your help to yourself, you know far less than you care to admit and you only care to see the end finding, and only of that which you wish to see.

Making up some hair brained scenario in your mind with no basis with which to make such a claim is all you have left. But I heard they're selling some T-Shirts outside the stadium that may help you feel better about supporting a predator.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Originally Posted by FrankZ
You do not know what she was asked or not asked to do, you were not in any investigative meetings, the hearing, or any follow up meetings. You assert points that you cannot prove as you have no intimate knowledge of the process. So keep your help to yourself, you know far less than you care to admit and you only care to see the end finding, and only of that which you wish to see.

Making up some hair brained scenario in your mind with no basis with which to make such a claim is all you have left. But I heard they're selling some T-Shirts outside the stadium that may help you feel better about supporting a predator.


You can't actually counter the point you don't know what was asked so you deflect.
You mistakenly dropped the other part of that statement... but I'd take splitting hairs over intentionally or unintentionally misrepresenting what many/most on here read and understood.

She did not call him a predator. If you're going to keep beating that drum trying to make a point, you can at least get it right.
Originally Posted by oobernoober
You mistakenly dropped the other part of that statement... but I'd take splitting hairs over intentionally or unintentionally misrepresenting what many/most on here read and understood.

She did not call him a predator. If you're going to keep beating that drum trying to make a point, you can at least get it right.

That would not fit the agenda.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
You have it backwards. I'm not telling people what to post, where to post or how to post. And objecting to and being disgusted by a sexual predator doesn't make you a white knight. It makes you a normal human being.


You don't tell people what to post, but if someone does post something that isn't 100% in lockstep with what you're saying you'll twist what they're saying and conclude they support an act that, many times, they have explicitly said they don't. They can post whatever they want, but they'll just get dragged into one of the many arguments you have going where they mostly are just restating what they have already said because you try to twist it into something it's not.

If your posting style over the past several months could even be remotely characterized as "objected to and being disgusted by a sexual predator", then you'd be right. By your logic you'd be a normal human being (again, if that were the case).
I just watched the Predator movies starting with the Arnold Schwarzenegger
One In 1987. I didn't see DW in any of those
I even looked at the Nashville Predators roster. He isn't listed
As a forward or goalie .
Originally Posted by oobernoober
You mistakenly dropped the other part of that statement... but I'd take splitting hairs over intentionally or unintentionally misrepresenting what many/most on here read and understood.

She did not call him a predator. If you're going to keep beating that drum trying to make a point, you can at least get it right.

This thread is so full of all sorts of stuff normal people distance themselves from but this made me curious.

In your mind what the the difference between a "predator" and someone who's "predatory behavior" was egregious? It sounds like you are saying it doesn't apply because she didn't use those exact words, but I'd think that a really odd stance. Thanks for responding in advance!
Originally Posted by oobernoober
You don't tell people what to post, but if someone does post something that isn't 100% in lockstep with what you're saying you'll twist what they're saying and conclude they support an act that, many times, they have explicitly said they don't.

That sounds exactly like what you're doing now. If someone tells you they hate steak while they're eating a T-Bone, what do you call that? I know people hate hearing it and wil do anything to defend it, justify it and rationalize it, but it is what it is.

Quote
They can post whatever they want, but they'll just get dragged into one of the many arguments you have going where they mostly are just restating what they have already said because you try to twist it into something it's not.

How can you drag someone into something they claim they don't want to be a part? You do understand people have free will, correct? They can engage or not engage in whatever threads and disagreements they so desire. You must have missed it. People said they were tired of talking about watson. That it did not belong in Pure Football. That it should be posted in Tailgate where people would ignore it and the thread would die. But did you see the results when I did that? Other than the preseason game threads it's the most active thread on Dawgtalkers. Yeah, that's my fault forcing all those people who don't want to discuss it anymore to keep discussing it.

Maybe you should focus a little more on the people who claim they do not condone watson's actions. Oh, wait a minute, "do not condone" sounds a little mild doesn't it considering his deeds? Look, for anyone who claims to hate the things watson has done to sit here and argue about still supporting the franchise he is the face of is an obvious choice of priority. As human beings we all make our decisions and base our support on what means the most to us. I have loved the Browns for well over 55 years. They have been an intricate art of my life. I have been on one form of Dawgtalk/Dawgtalkers since the team returned in 1999. That hasn't made me a better fan than anyone else but it certainly makes me as good a fan as anyone else.

And then there's the made up BS that it's all about Mayfield. I watched the Browns send Bernie packing for Testaverde. I was a huge fan of Bernie. To say I was upset about that is a huge understatement. But you see, I was certainly a much bigger Browns fan than a Bernie fan. Not so much when it came to Mayfield. I supported him as our QB bec ause he was a Brown and did take us to the playoffs when healthy. But getting an upgrade at the QB position was something that woud have been quite understandable to me. But not at any cost.

But when it comes to priorities I have a very clear choice here. Support the women who were abused and take a stand against the abuse of women or not. Put a football team as a higher priority in my life than the abuse of women who have been marginalized, mistreated and traumatized or not. People can claim that's not what they're doing. They can rationalize that continuing to support an owner who obviously rewarded watson knowing this very well may blow up in his face and in the face of this fan base. Who claimed they did some major investigation when it's obvious that they didn't. And they can convince themselves they aren't supporting watson but supporting the team instead to make themselves feel better. They try to shield themselves by claiming it's not the person they support but the uniform. Well maybe they don't understand that when you wrap up crap as a Christamas present, once you unwrap it you still end up with crap.

This really isn't complicated. If you support the Browns you support watson. The future success of this franchise rests squarely on his shoulders. I mean unless you wish to dismiss the vast majority of posters who claim that to be true. They claim that gives the browns a chance of making and winning the SB every year he remains at the QB spot. That means more to them than watson's victims. Because just as it always is, actions speak louder than words. Excuses do not explain your actions. You can claim that what I'm doing is trying to twist their words. What I'm actually doing is showing that their words are very hollow when you look at their actions. Their actions explain everything.

Quote
If your posting style over the past several months could even be remotely characterized as "objected to and being disgusted by a sexual predator", then you'd be right. By your logic you'd be a normal human being (again, if that were the case).

It can easily be described that way. Because that's what I've done all along. And that's the problem. People seem focused more on style more than substance. I'm sarcastic and I'm snarky. I point out the hypocrisy of claims like people saying they support the Browns but not watson. People don't like that and I get that. They have made a clear choice that watching the Browns have a good possibility of winning a SB is more important on their priority list than taking a stand against a predator who sexually abused multiple women. That's certainly their right to do so. But they need to stop pretending and rationalizing it like that's not what they're doing. No matter how pretty the wrapper.
Originally Posted by Iluvmyxstripper
I just watched the Predator movies starting with the Arnold Schwarzenegger
One In 1987. I didn't see DW in any of those
I even looked at the Nashville Predators roster. He isn't listed
As a forward or goalie .

Once again using humor to deflect away from a sexual predator helps explain a lot.
Making up some baseless claim isn't something that anyone rational would attempt to do in the first place. And trying to defend against something pulled out of thin air isn't either.

Sue Robinson made her findings clear. Making up some supposed backroom conversation that you have zero evidence of is nothing short of throwing darts while blindfolded.

My agenda? Defending women who are victims of sexual abuse. Your agenda? Acting like people shouldn't.
Originally Posted by oobernoober
She did not call him a predator. If you're going to keep beating that drum trying to make a point, you can at least get it right.

So acting in a sexually predatory and egregious behavior isn't being a sexual predator in your world? Got it.
Are you then not watching the Browns this season, or until Watson is no longer on the team?
All good if that’s your choice. Just curious.
I watch a lot of NFL games and will also be watching the Browns games when they're televised in my area. Living in Nashville there will be very few of those. I used to get the NFL Ticket and watch every Browns game.

I've tried to explain this before but will try yet again. I'm not saying that I hate the Browns. I'm not saying that I am going to boycott watching Browns games. I have many close friends who are browns fans and we have been friends for decades. Many have shared their feelings that seem to closely align with my own. The wording they use may be different but the end results are the same.

To me at least, being a fan rises to a certain level. Fan is short for fanatic. That's what I have always been to this point in my life. I bought and wore the gear, I watched every game by purchasing the NFL ticket, broke down all of the players, the schemes and statistics. I no longer hold that passion. To me the Browns are now just 1 of 32 franchises in the NFL.

I have always been an avid NFL fan. That hasn't and won't change at least for now. I'm not sure if I will watch browns games or not once watson returns and becomes the starter. I'll have to cross that bridge when I get to it.

The watson debacle does not change me being a fan of the NFL or the game. It does however greatly change my fandom and passion for the browns. Before this I would never believe I would feel this way. But at least for me there are limits and I have reached it.
By supporting the nfl, aren't you in fact supporting the Browns, and DW?
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Making up some baseless claim isn't something that anyone rational would attempt to do in the first place. And trying to defend against something pulled out of thin air isn't either.

Sue Robinson made her findings clear. Making up some supposed backroom conversation that you have zero evidence of is nothing short of throwing darts while blindfolded.

My agenda? Defending women who are victims of sexual abuse. Your agenda? Acting like people shouldn't.

You made the claim about what the NFL did not say to Robinson. In that claim is an implicit claim about knowing what was said. You do realize you can't say what what wasn't said without knowing what was, right?

You make an assertion then deflect when you cannot back up your assertion to try and make it look like someone else made your assertion.

Yes, you have an agenda. You don't like that the team went the way they did and you willing to use the women's suffering to further that agenda. You didn't seem to have much to say about Watson until the Browns started looking.
Originally Posted by archbolddawg
By supporting the nfl, aren't you in fact supporting the Browns, and DW?


I think you can casually watch the Browns but only if you don't root for them… ?
Originally Posted by PortlandDawg
Originally Posted by archbolddawg
By supporting the nfl, aren't you in fact supporting the Browns, and DW?


I think you can casually watch the Browns but only if you don't root for them… ?
Oh. and larry will be back tomorrow, folks. (not you, portland) I'm sure he'll have an excuse.
Originally Posted by Iluvmyxstripper
I just watched the Predator movies starting with the Arnold Schwarzenegger
One In 1987. I didn't see DW in any of those
I even looked at the Nashville Predators roster. He isn't listed
As a forward or goalie .

I set up with my predator call last night. I think this might be him:

[Linked Image from charlotteobserver.com]
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
I watch a lot of NFL games and will also be watching the Browns games when they're televised in my area. Living in Nashville there will be very few of those. I used to get the NFL Ticket and watch every Browns game.

I've tried to explain this before but will try yet again. I'm not saying that I hate the Browns. I'm not saying that I am going to boycott watching Browns games. I have many close friends who are browns fans and we have been friends for decades. Many have shared their feelings that seem to closely align with my own. The wording they use may be different but the end results are the same.

To me at least, being a fan rises to a certain level. Fan is short for fanatic. That's what I have always been to this point in my life. I bought and wore the gear, I watched every game by purchasing the NFL ticket, broke down all of the players, the schemes and statistics. I no longer hold that passion. To me the Browns are now just 1 of 32 franchises in the NFL.

I have always been an avid NFL fan. That hasn't and won't change at least for now. I'm not sure if I will watch browns games or not once watson returns and becomes the starter. I'll have to cross that bridge when I get to it.

The watson debacle does not change me being a fan of the NFL or the game. It does however greatly change my fandom and passion for the browns. Before this I would never believe I would feel this way. But at least for me there are limits and I have reached it.


This was a lot of words to say you are still a fan of the NFL but no longer a fan of the Browns.

Why are you still posting on a Browns board then?
I agree. The infection never ends.
Originally Posted by LexDawg
Originally Posted by oobernoober
You mistakenly dropped the other part of that statement... but I'd take splitting hairs over intentionally or unintentionally misrepresenting what many/most on here read and understood.

She did not call him a predator. If you're going to keep beating that drum trying to make a point, you can at least get it right.

This thread is so full of all sorts of stuff normal people distance themselves from but this made me curious.

In your mind what the the difference between a "predator" and someone who's "predatory behavior" was egregious? It sounds like you are saying it doesn't apply because she didn't use those exact words, but I'd think that a really odd stance. Thanks for responding in advance!

I'm picking stuff out like this because if he's going to be the board police on this topic he should at least get it right.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Originally Posted by oobernoober
You don't tell people what to post, but if someone does post something that isn't 100% in lockstep with what you're saying you'll twist what they're saying and conclude they support an act that, many times, they have explicitly said they don't.

That sounds exactly like what you're doing now. If someone tells you they hate steak while they're eating a T-Bone, what do you call that? I know people hate hearing it and wil do anything to defend it, justify it and rationalize it, but it is what it is.
Then you need to get your eyes checked, go back and re-read... REAL slow this time. While you're at it, re-read Portland's posts as well.

Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Quote
They can post whatever they want, but they'll just get dragged into one of the many arguments you have going where they mostly are just restating what they have already said because you try to twist it into something it's not.

How can you drag someone into something they claim they don't want to be a part? You do understand people have free will, correct? They can engage or not engage in whatever threads and disagreements they so desire. You must have missed it. People said they were tired of talking about watson. That it did not belong in Pure Football. That it should be posted in Tailgate where people would ignore it and the thread would die. But did you see the results when I did that? Other than the preseason game threads it's the most active thread on Dawgtalkers. Yeah, that's my fault forcing all those people who don't want to discuss it anymore to keep discussing it.
You (a single poster) have roughly half the total posts in this thread. It's impossible to have a rational conversation on here on certain topics because you inject your shtick (see above). So everyone else who has even a slightly differing opinion from you has to avoid all these threads because the onus is on them to be the bigger person. [/quote]

Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Maybe you should focus a little more on the people who claim they do not condone watson's actions. Oh, wait a minute, "do not condone" sounds a little mild doesn't it considering his deeds? Look, for anyone who claims to hate the things watson has done to sit here and argue about still supporting the franchise he is the face of is an obvious choice of priority. As human beings we all make our decisions and base our support on what means the most to us. I have loved the Browns for well over 55 years. They have been an intricate art of my life. I have been on one form of Dawgtalk/Dawgtalkers since the team returned in 1999. That hasn't made me a better fan than anyone else but it certainly makes me as good a fan as anyone else.

And then there's the made up BS that it's all about Mayfield. I watched the Browns send Bernie packing for Testaverde. I was a huge fan of Bernie. To say I was upset about that is a huge understatement. But you see, I was certainly a much bigger Browns fan than a Bernie fan. Not so much when it came to Mayfield. I supported him as our QB bec ause he was a Brown and did take us to the playoffs when healthy. But getting an upgrade at the QB position was something that woud have been quite understandable to me. But not at any cost.

But when it comes to priorities I have a very clear choice here. Support the women who were abused and take a stand against the abuse of women or not. Put a football team as a higher priority in my life than the abuse of women who have been marginalized, mistreated and traumatized or not. People can claim that's not what they're doing. They can rationalize that continuing to support an owner who obviously rewarded watson knowing this very well may blow up in his face and in the face of this fan base. Who claimed they did some major investigation when it's obvious that they didn't. And they can convince themselves they aren't supporting watson but supporting the team instead to make themselves feel better. They try to shield themselves by claiming it's not the person they support but the uniform. Well maybe they don't understand that when you wrap up crap as a Christamas present, once you unwrap it you still end up with crap.

This really isn't complicated. If you support the Browns you support watson. The future success of this franchise rests squarely on his shoulders. I mean unless you wish to dismiss the vast majority of posters who claim that to be true. They claim that gives the browns a chance of making and winning the SB every year he remains at the QB spot. That means more to them than watson's victims. Because just as it always is, actions speak louder than words. Excuses do not explain your actions. You can claim that what I'm doing is trying to twist their words. What I'm actually doing is showing that their words are very hollow when you look at their actions. Their actions explain everything.

Don't worry about what I and others focused on. I have explained my feelings on Watson as well as the whole saga several times. If you've missed it while you're twisting another portion of the post, that's on you and I'm done calling out the methods you use to debate as well as your need to argue even when an argument isn't there. Calling it out again probably won't do anything.

The made up BS about Mayfield is just that. Made up. It's not even worth mentioning. I'm not the board police and I have no interest in debating all things Mayfield anymore since he's not on the team.

re: your very clear choice.... ok, how exactly do you support women who were abused and take a stand against the abuse of women? Do you actually DO anything, or is your support simply limited to the confines of a internet message board frequented by (what I assume is) a small % of fans of a single football team? I say this sincerely and honestly, with the holier-than-thou attitude absolutely dripping from your posts I hope you do more than patrol an internet message board.
[Linked Image from media.giphy.com]
That's not him. He isn't wearing the number 4 Browns jersey.
Originally Posted by archbolddawg
Originally Posted by PortlandDawg
Originally Posted by archbolddawg
By supporting the nfl, aren't you in fact supporting the Browns, and DW?


I think you can casually watch the Browns but only if you don't root for them… ?
Oh. and larry will be back tomorrow, folks. (not you, portland) I'm sure he'll have an excuse.

There is no excuse needed. The NFL actually stepped up to the plate at least to some extent by insisting on a longer suspension and a fine. Watson on the other hand is still saying he didn't do anything wrong. I understand it's difficult for you to understand simple concepts but that's an issue your family has to deal with, not me.
Originally Posted by Rishuz
This was a lot of words to say you are still a fan of the NFL but no longer a fan of the Browns.

Why are you still posting on a Browns board then?

Because I choose to. You still can't seem to digest that many people claim fandom when they aren't fanatics. Many people that post on this board I wouldn't consider rises to actual definition of fanatic.
Originally Posted by oobernoober
Don't worry about what I and others focused on.

Oh I don't worry about it. I just pay attention and make observations. And here you are. It seems more than a bit odd that those claiming they don't care about it and no longer wish to hear about keep reading these threads and responding to them. I guess it's easier to blame someone other than them for that.

Quote
how exactly do you support women who were abused and take a stand against the abuse of women? Do you actually DO anything, or is your support simply limited to the confines of a internet message board frequented by (what I assume is) a small % of fans of a single football team? I say this sincerely and honestly, with the holier-than-thou attitude absolutely dripping from your posts I hope you do more than patrol an internet message board.

I do a lot more. Having known women who have experienced such things has driven me to do so. I also work to help other causes and charities. I however do not do these things to brag about it on the internet or make a public display of it. So I'll leave it at that.

Like I said, anyone who doesn't like this thread isn't forced to respond. And often times when thy do it's to pile on and be a follower of others like arch does. Like I said, if you don't like steak stop eating it. Nobody is force feeding it to you or anyone else.
As I click back to see all four new posts are from Pit, I realize...

Originally Posted by oobernoober
You (a single poster) have roughly half the total posts in this thread.

...only Pit would see that and read "underachiever". rofl
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
There is no excuse needed. The NFL actually stepped up to the plate at least to some extent by insisting on a longer suspension and a fine. Watson on the other hand is still saying he didn't do anything wrong. I understand it's difficult for you to understand simple concepts but that's an issue your family has to deal with, not me.

Nice barb.

So, you got what you wanted from the nfl. What more do you want?

Also, by supporting the nfl, you are in fact supporting the Browns, and by default, DW.

If you feel so passionately about it, perhaps you should quit watching the nfl.
Perhaps you should come to grips with facts. TV contracts are signed in advance. Me watching NFL games on TV will not change what the NFL is making from any network televising their games. It has zero impact on the NFL's income.

watson is a Cleveland brown. He is the face of the franchise. Any news about him and this story is news about the browns. I will post that. I will respond to those who complain about it. As I said, Haslam made him the face of the franchise and he's all yours now. Did you click the link showing the signs and the T-shirts being sold outside the stadium? You know, do you have anything of substance to comment about on something that actually happened or has all of your focus now being directed towards me rather than the fallout from watson?

I think you've already made that pretty clear. And you're not alone.
Originally Posted by FATE
As I click back to see all four new posts are from Pit, I realize...

Originally Posted by oobernoober
You (a single poster) have roughly half the total posts in this thread.

...only Pit would see that and read "underachiever". rofl

Only I am here reporting the fallout of what happened to these women and reporting on the fallout in the aftermath. The rest don't want to hear it. But rather than ignore it or stand up for these women they would rather support a sexual predator and make me the target of their ire. No wonder people think society is going to hell.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Originally Posted by FATE
As I click back to see all four new posts are from Pit, I realize...

Originally Posted by oobernoober
You (a single poster) have roughly half the total posts in this thread.

...only Pit would see that and read "underachiever". rofl

Only I am here reporting the fallout of what happened to these women and reporting on the fallout in the aftermath. The rest don't want to hear it. But rather than ignore it or stand up for these women they would rather support a sexual predator and make me the target of their ire. No wonder people think society is going to hell.


Someday they will make a movie out of your fight for justice on here.
The hero we need. Not the hero we deserve.
Originally Posted by oobernoober
Someday they will make a movie out of your fight for justice on here.

Actually expecting common human decency isn't as uncommon as people on this board would lead others to believe.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Originally Posted by oobernoober
Someday they will make a movie out of your fight for justice on here.

Actually expecting common human decency isn't as uncommon as people on this board would lead others to believe.

It's not quite "With great power comes great responsibility" but I'm sure the writers can work with it.
Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie
The hero we need. Not the hero we deserve.

I would actually say it's the opposite.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Originally Posted by FATE
As I click back to see all four new posts are from Pit, I realize...

Originally Posted by oobernoober
You (a single poster) have roughly half the total posts in this thread.

...only Pit would see that and read "underachiever". rofl

Only I am here reporting the fallout of what happened to these women and reporting on the fallout in the aftermath. The rest don't want to hear it. But rather than ignore it or stand up for these women they would rather support a sexual predator and make me the target of their ire. No wonder people think society is going to hell.


Are you seriously championing yourself as the lone voice against evil.... on a message board of a team you're no longer even a fan of? Good Lord.



[Linked Image from theglobepost.com]
He's trolling because he has nothing better to do.
I guess you don't consider sexual assault as evil and that there is no list you can refer to on here standing in line to support those women. Better luck next time.
Originally Posted by EveDawg
He's trolling because he has nothing better to do.


And yet here you are.....
Jimmy Haslam is to blame for the vile T-shirts and signs in support of Deshaun Watson

All bets were off once the Browns owner sided with his QB’s talent over decency

Talent trumps anything in the NFL — and Jimmy Haslam knows that.

“We strongly believe [Deshaun Watson] deserves a second chance,” the Cleveland Browns owner said last week. “We gave Kareem Hunt a second chance and that worked out pretty well.”

A few days later — marching to the beat of the drum that Haslam started playing — a couple of disgusting “adults” showed up at the stadium in “support” of their star quarterback. There was a man selling T-shirts that read “B!+c# GIVE ME A MASSAGE!” in the team’s colors, along with what appeared to be a father-and-son duo that showed up with signs “F THEM HOES” and “FREE WATSON.”

Way to stay classy, Cleveland.

Beyond being a reminder that the Browns are a franchise that will always welcome talented players who have done bad things to women, Haslam gave every man — and woman — that doesn’t believe women, or always assumes that they’re lying about unwanted sexual acts or advances that have been made against them, the green light to act like this is a conversation about redemption when it’s solely about revenue.

If Watson weren’t good at football, Haslam wouldn’t have signed him to the largest guaranteed deal in NFL history. He doesn’t care about Watson’s soul, he cares about his investment. And that’s not an opinion, it’s a fact.

“And you can say, ‘well that’s because he’s a star quarterback.’ Well, of course,” said Haslam about what’s the real reason why the franchise is standing behind Watson.

In a series of tweets last month, ESPN reporter Kimberley A. Martin chronicled some fan reactions toward Watson at practice. The scene of children frolicking toward him was frustrating. And it’s not like it was the kids’ fault, as the blame is on their parents. I mean, how else do you think they got there? Somebody had to take them to practice so that they could get autographs and a pair of their “hero’s” cleats.

It’s a far cry from how things were last summer for Watson, as he was caught on camera walking off the field at a Houston Texans practice when he asked the media, “Why y’all always filming me every day? It’s the same s#!+,” as if he isn’t the reason why he had at least 24 sexual misconduct lawsuits filed against him.

The way you walk and talk changes when you’ve realized that you’re Teflon in your team owner’s eyes.

Over the next few months, it will be interesting to see how fans — of all ages — respond to Deshaun Watson. Will he get booed on the road and be supported at home? Or in a few months, will people have “moved on” to focus solely on football?

But what we do know is that those kids who were holding up signs and getting autographs from Watson were there because of their parents. And when you realize that those kids will one day become parents, you start to understand how this cycle continues.

https://deadspin.com/jimmy-haslam-is-to-blame-for-the-vile-t-shirts-and-sign-1849446316
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Originally Posted by EveDawg
He's trolling because he has nothing better to do.


And yet here you are.....

So you're only a champion certain women?
I champion against sexual abuse. Pay attention.
Browns HC Kevin Stefanski on 'hot seat' amid Deshaun Watson suspension?

Cleveland Browns head coach Kevin Stefanski has endured quite a roller-coaster ride filled with ups and downs since he earned Coach of the Year honors for the 2020 season, his first in charge with the organization.

Then-Browns quarterback Baker Mayfield experienced a serious injury to his non-throwing shoulder in Week 2 of the 2021 campaign that ultimately derailed Cleveland's playoff hopes and resulted in the beginning of the end of Mayfield's tenure with the franchise. This past March, the Browns controversially traded with the Houston Texans for star signal-caller Deshaun Watson even though he still had allegations of sexual misconduct during massage sessions hovering over his playing status at the time.

Stefanski and company now know Watson will serve an 11-game suspension that officially begins later this month, and the Browns seem happy to "stick to our plan" of starting journeyman backup Jacoby Brissett through the end of November until Watson is eligible to return.

One would think Stefanski would receive somewhat of a free pass for the upcoming season considering all that's happened. ESPN's Jake Trotter disagrees and explained for a piece published Tuesday why he believes Stefanski is "on the hot seat" in the closing days of summer.

"No Browns head coach has survived three full seasons since Jimmy Haslam bought the team in 2012; Stefanski is now entering his third season," Trotter noted. "And though he won NFL coach of the year in 2020 while guiding the Browns to the playoffs, last year's losing season was a massive disappointment. The pressure is now on Stefanski to get Cleveland back in the postseason despite enormous turmoil at quarterback surrounding Deshaun Watson. Although he spearheaded the Watson trade, Haslam has never demonstrated patience as an owner. If the Browns struggle under the circumstances, the heat could fall on Stefanski."

Cleveland traded Mayfield to the Carolina Panthers in July, and the 27-year-old was recently named that club's starter for at least the Week 1 home game versus none other than the Browns. Stefanski may have some difficult questions to answer if Mayfield out-performs Brissett en route to guiding Carolina to an opening-week win.

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/arti...OSSr5seKtWt5LrHH8kYkAS2wo5lDbqcXQZsM73gk

Haslam always finds a fall guy for the messes he creates. I doubt this coming season will be any different.
You either did not read that article or are making a real troll move. The only sentence in that entire piece that comes close to backing up the title is:
Quote
If the Browns struggle under the circumstances, the heat could fall on Stefanski.
Yeah, no coach surviving three full seasons since Halslam bought the team is no indication that Stefanski may be on the hot seat. I guess you get out of it what you put into it.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
I champion against sexual abuse. Pay attention.

So you are saying you are ok with verbal abuse against women. Got it.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Yeah, no coach surviving three full seasons since Halslam bought the team is no indication that Stefanski may be on the hot seat. I guess you get out of it what you put into it.

rofl Let me try my hand at your method of proving a point: No coach that's won a playoff game for the Browns has ever been fired by Haslam.
The clustertruck broke down in the most simplistic terms.......

Baker Mayfield in Carolina? Deshaun Watson in Cleveland? Jacoby Brissett starting the opener? – Terry’s Talkin’ Browns

CLEVELAND, Ohio – Talking to myself about where have all the quarterbacks gone:

QUESTION: What do you think of Baker Mayfield starting in Carolina?

ANSWER: No surprise. He’s better than Sam Darnold. If healthy, Mayfield is above average.

Q: Don’t you think...

A: Think about this: A year ago, the Browns were coming off an 11-5 season and a playoff victory over Pittsburgh. The only QB question was if the Browns should give Mayfield a lucrative 4-year extension. He had many moments in 2020 when he seemed like a long-term answer at QB for the Browns.

Q: That is true. Seems like a long time ago.

A: After the 2020 season ended, Deshaun Watson was “furious” with the direction of the Houston Texans. He had just signed a four-year, $156 million contract extension with that team. He was unhappy with how the roster had been handled during the 4-12 season.

Q: Didn’t he ask to be traded by Houston?

A: Yes, he did. He also insisted he would not show up for training camp. As time passed, word of the civil suits against him from massage therapists was made public. The Texans and Watson were in a standoff. Watson wanted a trade. Houston wasn’t going to trade him.

Q: But then he was traded, right?

A: To the Browns for six draft picks, including three first-rounders. And now he has the NFL’s highest guaranteed contract – $230 million, including a no-trade clause.

Q: How did all this happen in a year?

A: And Mayfield is preparing to face the Browns on Sept. 11 as Watson begins his 11-game suspension.

Q: How am I supposed to keep track of all this?

A: Which brings us to Jacoby Brissett. Who could have imagined the Browns’ 2022 opening day QB would be ... Jacoby Brissett?

Q: Where was he last year?

A: Brissett opened the 2021 season as the backup to QB Tua Tagovailoa in Miami.

Q: Is Case Keenum still the backup in Cleveland?

A: Nope, that was in 2021. He’s now with Buffalo. Brissett was supposed to be the backup to Watson this season, and that’s the plan whenever Watson plays. But for now, it’s Joshua Dobbs, who was the No. 3 QB in Pittsburgh in 2021.

Q: I thought the Browns had Josh Rosen?

A: They do, but probably not for long.

Q: He was in the same 2018 draft with Mayfield, right?

A: Rosen went No. 10 to Arizona. Cleveland is his sixth team.

Q: His sixth team in five years ... YIKES!

A: I expect him to be cut before the season. He was with Atlanta last year. He hasn’t started a regular season game since 2019.

Q: This is crazy. A year ago, I thought the Browns were set with Mayfield. I thought they’d be a playoff team for several years. I thought ...

A: All of us thought wrong, as it turned out. Even Watson, who first rejected a trade to Cleveland in the spring, then changed his mind when the Browns made him the mind-blowing contract offer.

Q: So the Browns will open with Watson suspended, Brissett starting and Dobbs as the backup.

A: Probably ... maybe ... unless they find another backup QB.

Q: How am I supposed to follow all this? Baker was in Cleveland, but now he’s in Carolina. Watson was in Houston, didn’t want to go to Cleveland ... changed his mind and did. Brissett was ...

A: Just stop unless you want a migraine. We know this – someone in an orange helmet will be taking snaps for the Browns all season. Let’s start there.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/20...Afzf4-B9EsaipVV_qmu9yT5hrhmlTcNelM1eB2Io
So you didn't like the article. Color me shocked. You may wish to take a look at that headline again and think. It's a question, not a statement. Punctuation is important.

Last years fall guy is in Carolina. Since watson's contract is fully guaranteed the only question left is who will be the fall guy this year? Stop pretending it can't be anyone including Stefanski.
Originally Posted by jfanent
You either did not read that article or are making a real troll move. The only sentence in that entire piece that comes close to backing up the title is:
Quote
If the Browns struggle under the circumstances, the heat could fall on Stefanski.

The headline of the story reads...

Quote
Browns HC Kevin Stefanski on 'hot seat' amid Deshaun Watson suspension?
By Zac Wassink  |  Last updated 8/23/22


and the guy who wrote the headline is "By Zac Wassink" .

The link to the story is https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/arti...OSSr5seKtWt5LrHH8kYkAS2wo5lDbqcXQZsM73gk


Pitt didn't write it and he sure as hell isn't a 'troll' for posting the story..!
No big deal mac. That's how they deal with things they don't want to hear. They attack the messenger. They want this to all go away like it never happened. And if you report and post on it, they attack you and try to make you the problem. I mean read this thread. watson committed sexual assault, not me. Haslam made watson the face of the franchise, not me. And while you would think that would enrage normal people, instead their outrage is towards me. They still fail to realize that I don't give a damn about what they think. I was raised well enough to know you don't roll over and accept a sexual predator. This fan base has the perfect opportunity to send that message to Haslam. But instead they are welcoming a sexual predator into the fold. Sad, very sad.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
No big deal mac. That's how they deal with things they don't want to hear. They attack the messenger. They want this to all go away like it never happened. And if you report and post on it, they attack you and try to make you the problem. I mean read this thread. watson committed sexual assault, not me. Haslam made watson the face of the franchise, not me. And while you would think that would enrage normal people, instead their outrage is towards me. They still fail to realize that I don't give a damn about what they think. I was raised well enough to know you don't roll over and accept a sexual predator. This fan base has the perfect opportunity to send that message to Haslam. But instead they are welcoming a sexual predator into the fold. Sad, very sad.

Even worse, all those dirty, filthy Browns fans have a shining (depending on the DT board color scheme selected, I guess) beacon of justice and morality RIGHT HERE.... and they still act like this!

SHAME!
It's not an act. Sexual abuse against women is disgusting by any normal persons standards. When the one continuing to talk about it is a bigger focus than the perrpitrator of those acts it speaks volumes.

Like showing a man at the stadium with a child standing next to him. The man holding a sign that says, "F them hoes" and the boy with a matching sign that says "Free watson".... Not a peep from anyone on this board. A man selling T-shirts outside the stadium saying "Give me a massage B!+c#!" and not a word about it. Yet more disgusting behavior. And yet you didn't have a word to say about it. Rather than do that you focus on me. Like I said in the post you quoted which seems to bother you.

Are you saying that sexual abuse against women is something anyone should consider normal and not be outraged by? Is that not a bare minimum of decency and morality? Is that some standard you think isn't normal? Because it seems you are far more outraged at me being honest than you are about what watson did. At least you are certainly placing more focus on me than you are him. Sad.

If you think standing by women who have been sexually abused and expecting what people that consider themselves as normal to do the same then I highly question your standard of what a "beacon of justice and morality" is. All that takes is a decent human being. All you have to have is an ounce of compassion for the victims of sexual abuse. But I see you think I'm the bigger problem. Just like I pointed out above in the post you quoted.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
No big deal mac. That's how they deal with things they don't want to hear. They attack the messenger. They want this to all go away like it never happened. And if you report and post on it, they attack you and try to make you the problem. I mean read this thread. watson committed sexual assault, not me. Haslam made watson the face of the franchise, not me. And while you would think that would enrage normal people, instead their outrage is towards me. They still fail to realize that I don't give a damn about what they think. I was raised well enough to know you don't roll over and accept a sexual predator. This fan base has the perfect opportunity to send that message to Haslam. But instead they are welcoming a sexual predator into the fold. Sad, very sad.

I don’t think the fact that you post news of Watson has those who at least agree with you on some level upset. It’s your non stop sanctimonious garbage you spew about the other people on this board. If people don’t think in lock step with you they become complicit in sexual assault.

The fact is you are no longer a fan of the Cleveland Browns yet you feel the need to come here and constantly post negative things about the team. You are no different than those who come here and post in the smack shack.
I post about watson here. There shouldn't really be a "lock step" issue about a man who is a sexual predator. You either support a sexual predator being the face of the franchise or you don't. Nobody has to read the thread. Nobody has to post on this thread. That's their choice. Can you tell me what is sanctimonious about expecting what are otherwise normal people standing against a sexual predator as the face of this franchise? Can you explain what's so unrealistic or judgemental about expecting people to stand up and stand behind woman who are victims of sexual abuse?

If this were happening with any other team in the NFL many of these same people would be outraged. The only reason they're not is because of the uniform he wears. That's not a me problem.
Not that you're interested... I mean, that you (allegedly) read my last few posts and think I'm outraged is proof that you have some SERIOUS reading comprehension issues.

I've posted my thoughts on Watson. That is a serious issue and my thoughts are there back when we were discussing this seriously.

What you're doing here is something different and it's a joke. Your posts sound more about stroking your own ego to look like shining example of morality (and shouting down the only female who's posted in this latest thread, ironically enough) than anything real. This thread will die when myself and others are done making fun of you because you've made serious dialogue impossible.

And that's the sad part. You've made a serious discussion into a joke.
I know you too well. If you'd done anything to stop or prevent abuse, or help charities, etc. you'd have posted about it.
Originally Posted by archbolddawg
I know you too well. If you'd done anything to stop or prevent abuse, or help charities, etc. you'd have posted about it.

Obviously you don't really know me at all. Maybe you would, but not me.

I don't spend my time on here talking about every event in my child's life. Nor do I talk about many events and hobbies I have like umpiring baseball games. Nor do I talk about the private life and or sexuality of my child. I don't talk about the vehicles I own. I don't talk about allowing my child to handle guns.

That would be you arch. I'm a relatively private person when it comes to my personal life. It's not that I never mention it, but I rarely do.
And sadly you once again have proven my point. You and others have made it about me and not the pervert you continue to support by your very actions. I have posted articles, stories and responded to fools who have nothing left to do but belittle someone who is standing up against a sexual predator. Not that you're interested.

And once again, standing up against a sexual predator is not some standard of a shining example of morality. That only requires an ounce of human decency. A very different standard. Sadly it's amazing how many don't meet it.
When asked how tough it is to not be Watson on the field, Brissett responded, "It's very easy for me not to be Deshaun."



Originally Posted by PitDAWG
And sadly you once again have proven my point. You and others have made it about me and not the pervert you continue to support by your very actions. I have posted articles, stories and responded to fools who have nothing left to do but belittle someone who is standing up against a sexual predator. Not that you're interested.

And once again, standing up against a sexual predator is not some standard of a shining example of morality. That only requires an ounce of human decency. A very different standard. Sadly it's amazing how many don't meet it.


I would literally pay to see you "standing up against a sexual predator" for real (to be clear... by "for real" I mean actually doing something vs posting to a message board from home). How do you have the time to "do a lot" for victims of sexual assault and other charities/causes after your ongoing righteous crusade on here?
New movie: Illegal Aliens vs Sexual Predators



(blatantly stolen from National Lampoon's)
I'm on here in the mid morning and early afternoon. Otherwise I'm not. You do realize there are 24 hours in a day, right? Would you like for me to invite you to Nashville so you could witness my work first hand? I didn't think so. Just another personal shot focusing on me rather than the sexual predator. No surprise there.
So now you've officially crossed over from messageboard-moral-authority to internet-tough-guy. Your journey is now complete.
Tough guy? How, by asking if you would like an invitation to come and witness my charity work first hand? You're hilarious.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
You're hilarious.

That was the goal.
Mission accomplished.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Originally Posted by archbolddawg
I know you too well. If you'd done anything to stop or prevent abuse, or help charities, etc. you'd have posted about it.

Obviously you don't really know me at all. Maybe you would, but not me.

I don't spend my time on here talking about every event in my child's life. Nor do I talk about many events and hobbies I have like umpiring baseball games. Nor do I talk about the private life and or sexuality of my child. I don't talk about the vehicles I own. I don't talk about allowing my child to handle guns.

That would be you arch. I'm a relatively private person when it comes to my personal life. It's not that I never mention it, but I rarely do.

If you don't like how I post or what I post, don't read it. but you obviously DO read it. Not accurately, of course, which is typical of you, but you obviously read it, and remember it.

Many others have posted personal things as well. Just as you have. I'll post as I see fit. See how that works?
And when you reply to me, could you please list exactly what I'm 'allowed' to post about? According to you.
j/c:

JMO.............but talking about someone's family members should be off-limits.
Eh, I brought them up. In appropriate threads, of course. Some......well, I'll be done until larry pops up tomorrow.
Originally Posted by jfanent
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Yeah, no coach surviving three full seasons since Halslam bought the team is no indication that Stefanski may be on the hot seat. I guess you get out of it what you put into it.

rofl Let me try my hand at your method of proving a point: No coach that's won a playoff game for the Browns has ever been fired by Haslam.
How about any coach that was stuck (allegedly) in a basement in Covid @uarantine while his buddy coached the team to a playoff win?
( I honestly don't recall which week(s) of the final 3 games, week I7, then the wild card week, then the divisional round, that Stefanski was supposed to sit out.)
i said I wasn't going to respond to you anymore, but I wasn't criticizing you. It's someone else who drew my ire.
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
i said I wasn't going to respond to you anymore, but I wasn't criticizing you. It's someone else who drew my ire.
Golly, I wonder who?
Originally Posted by oobernoober
quote PitDAWG]...

Someday they will make a movie out of your fight for justice on here.
Directed by ??? or Staring ???
Originally Posted by THROW LONG
Originally Posted by oobernoober
quote PitDAWG]...

Someday they will make a movie out of your fight for justice on here.
Directed by ??? or Staring ???
I heard you are in the movie.


[Linked Image from looper.com]
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
j/c:

JMO.............but talking about someone's family members should be off-limits.

That's hilarious. You've posted about MY family more than anyone in the history or the DawgTalker board. We had multiple weeks where you referenced my kids in multiple posts.

Unreal.

I've stayed away from this thread - it's time to move on. The punishment has been handed down. Folks have their opinions. Everything has been done to death. Football is 2 weeks away.

We'll get plenty more opportunity to rehash some of this stuff in 14 weeks time when Watson is going to take his first snap for the Browns. Before then he has to complete some counselling and whoever he meets with (I believe) has to sign off in his rehabilitation or whatever the term is going to be for Watson to be green lighted to play again. And then Watson has to stay squeaky clean moving forward .... Hopefully that all happens. There is nothing to be gained by rehashing and beating heads against walls between now and week10/11/12.
I agree. There comes a point where the infection is the thread.
Originally Posted by archbolddawg
And when you reply to me, could you please list exactly what I'm 'allowed' to post about? According to you.

You're allowed to post anything. Even when they're lies or are wrong. But don't think I won't call you on them. Like I said claiming you know me is a lie. I read all the posts. Even posts from morons. Not saying you're a moron of course.
Originally Posted by Ballpeen
I agree. There comes a point where the infection is the thread.

Yet here you are. Nobody is forcing anyone to read it.
Deshaun Watson Settled Without Having to Give a Sufficient Apology

Empty statements from the Browns and their quarterback are an insulting conclusion to the NFL’s disciplinary process.

Here’s the only thing that seems right to say at a moment like this, since none of the people in charge are going to say it: I’m sorry.

Sorry to the women who have come forward with accounts of Deshaun Watson’s predatory behavior, dealt with deep emotional scars and gotten branded as opportunists. Sorry to the women who bravely went through the process of having their horror stories validated by former U.S. district judge Sue L. Robinson in her initial ruling on this case, then watched as Watson thumbed his nose at her conclusions.

Sorry to people who have experienced instances of sexual violence or abuse, people who were watching this case and hoping to feel like the world can sympathize, even just a little bit, with what you went through. Sorry that this entire façade, which ended Thursday with Watson having his suspension increased to 11 games, receiving a $5 million fine and agreeing to undergo treatment, feels like nothing but an empty promise undelivered.

Sorry that your experiences were minimized as “being triggered” multiple times, which is a convenient way of making it all seem like it’s not Watson’s fault. Sorry that the people you wanted to hear a real “sorry” from took back all their apologies and are planning to move on with life.

Nowhere in the release containing information on Watson’s suspension does it say explicitly that he has to apologize, or deal with the maddeningly inconsistent messaging that has come out of Browns headquarters or out of Watson’s mouth personally. We’re not talking about the strange interview he did before the Browns’ first preseason game, which he has already contradicted. We’re not talking about the statement released Thursday by the Browns, with Watson’s name on it, that says, in part, “I apologize once again for any pain this situation has caused. I take accountability for the decisions I made.”

We have seen nothing that can counteract our impression of how we know Watson truly feels about the entire thing. Minutes after the decision came down, ESPN reporter Dianna Russini said on air, via ProFootballTalk’s Michael David Smith: “[Deshaun and his agents are] still angry about those six games, so now it’s 11, so to them this is too many games. They still stand by the fact that they’re denying all of this.” Russini added on Twitter that people around Watson maintain, “This isn’t an admission or an apology to the women involved.” It seems clear no one is going to say sorry for that specific undercurrent of defiance, which has lingered throughout.

Minutes after Watson’s statement came out via the team, he told reporters in person, “I’ve always been able to stand on my innocence and always said I never assaulted or disrespected anyone, but at the same point I have to continue to push forward with my life and career.” He added that he only apologized for “people that were triggered.” He said, at some point, that he has his side of the story to tell and that one day he’s going to tell it.

Now might be a good time, in front of people trained to ask legitimate questions. In front of an audience that would get to look him in the eye. In the absence of sorry, something other than the completely disprovable statement that he’s never disrespected a single woman in his life would be preferential. We have all disrespected someone in our lifetime. (Also, let’s not minimize Watson’s actions, as he has tried to several times now, as mere “disrespect.”)

Sometimes we can stomach taking the world as it is, and not how it should be. Seeing Watson’s case come before a disciplinary system unprepared to handle a pattern of behavior this vast, then arriving at a punishment ever so slightly more befitting of a predatory action, even having the commissioner call it—publicly—a predatory action, are instances of incremental progress, even if incremental progress doesn’t feel like progress at all sometimes.

The hard part is watching Watson and the Browns simply shed this situation like a Halloween costume. Watson was initially defiant publicly, nebulously remorseful when he felt the proceedings weren’t going his way and then returned to that defiance the moment it became clear he avoided a real sledgehammer.

Browns owner Jimmy Haslam evoked cancel culture Thursday when he asked, rhetorically: “I think in this country, people deserve second chances. Is he never supposed to play again? Is he no longer supposed to be part of society?”

Of course Watson should be able to play again. Plenty of people—inside the NFL and out—have gotten more than two chances and are appreciative of every single one.

But the precursor to earning a second chance is realizing you’re getting one. If Watson continues to believe and espouse the idea he’s done nothing wrong while providing no contradictory evidence aside from a nonindictment in Texas that was legally complicated from the start, then this isn’t a second chance at all.

Seeing this play out isn’t just “triggering.” Minus some kind of detailed rebuttal, it’s dejecting and insulting. The kind of thing someone should really apologize for.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/08/18/deshaun-watson-settlement-insufficient-apology
Originally Posted by mgh888
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
j/c:

JMO.............but talking about someone's family members should be off-limits.

That's hilarious. You've posted about MY family more than anyone in the history or the DawgTalker board. We had multiple weeks where you referenced my kids in multiple posts.

Unreal.

That post wasn't lost on me bro. I lol'ed when I read it.

"Shouldn't you be spending more time with your kids??" rofl
NFL senior advisor Rita Smith on Deshaun Watson: “I feel like he’s playing us”

In the eight days since Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson: (1) accepted an 11-game suspension and $5 million fine; (2) issued a statement accepting accountability for his decisions; and (3) promptly proclaimed his innocence at a press conference, the NFL hasn’t had much if anything to say about Watson’s lack of remorse.

On Friday, an advisor hired amid the Ray Rice fiasco spoke out, aggressively, about Watson’s attitude.

“I feel like he’s playing us,” NFL senior adviser on matters of domestic violence and sexual assault Rita Smith told Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer. “He’s saying exactly what he thinks he needs to say to get on the field again. He’s not thinking strategically at all about. ‘Did I cause harm to other people?’ He’s not questioning any of his behaviors at all. He’s absolutely certain from that last statement: ‘I’ve done nothing wrong. This is all about people trying to get at me, and I just want to go play ball.'”

Smith believes that Watson’s refusal to accept responsibility sets the stage for ongoing misbehavior.

“That energy is not good for future reoffending,” Smith told Cabot. “That that purports to me that he’s still a danger to people, because he’s done absolutely no self-reflection that I can tell. You don’t have that many violations reported from somebody who’s not doing anything wrong. . . . He’s doing something wrong in those [massage] sessions. He’s doing something inappropriate in those [massage] sessions. So he needs to figure out what that is and how he can stop it so that nobody gets hurt in that process.”

Part of the problem, as Smith sees it, is that Watson is surrounded by agents and lawyers who blindly support him, bolstering his position that he’s done nothing wrong.

“He’s put around himself people who will carry him forward no matter what decision he makes and that’s dangerous,” Smith told Cabot. “It’s dangerous for Deshaun Watson as well. He can change, but not if there are people around him saying, ‘Yeah, she’s just after your money’ and ‘You paid all that money and it still didn’t make any difference.’ He needs to rid himself of those people, because they’re not serving him well.”

They haven’t been serving him well from the get go. An effort to settle the claims of Ashley Solis was rebuffed, setting the stage for her lawsuit and 23 others. A stubborn insistence by Watson’s camp that a potential settlement of the claims in April 2021 not include a confidentiality provision resulted in a missed opportunity to end the cases fairly quickly. Along the way, lawyer Rusty Hardin has declared that all of the Watson accusers are lying.

No, Watson has not been served well. He needs someone to speak hard truths to him. Hopefully, that will happen through counseling. If he refuses to accept and heed the things he’ll hear, he shouldn’t be reinstated for Week 13 at Houston — or at any point until he stops standing on his innocence and starts embracing strategies for understanding how these issues arose, and how to avoid them in the future.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...shaun-watson-i-feel-like-hes-playing-us/
Deshaun Watson's accountability about-face after suspension underscores serious problem | Opinion

Opinion by Jarrett Bell, USA TODAY - Aug 19
link

There are multiple ways to decipher the mixed messages we heard from Deshaun Watson shortly after his monumental settlement with the NFL came down on Thursday. Here are a few:

Playing both ends against the middle.

Wanting to have his cake and eat it, too.

Wishy-washy.

Serious denial.

The Cleveland Browns quarterback put out a written statement expressing contrition and accountability after the punishment was announced for his violation of the NFL’s personal conduct policy stemming from sexual misconduct allegations – an 11-game suspension, $5 million fine, mandatory treatment and counseling .

The tone of the written statement was similar to the message Watson delivered on camera last Friday before his preseason debut – and while the NFL’s appeal of independent disciplinary officer Sue L. Robinson’s original six-game suspension and settlement talks ensued. He said he was sorry for "any pain this situation has caused."

In meeting with the media minutes after the written statement was released on Thursday, Watson had quite the contrasting message of defiance.

“I have always stood on my innocence and always said I’ve never assaulted anyone or disrespected anyone,” Watson told reporters during a news conference at the Browns headquarters. “I’m going to continue to stand on my innocence.”


If that’s the case, why was there a settlement at all?

Watson, 26, said something about the deal not necessarily being an admission of guilt. That’s plausible.

Yet in flipping his script, Watson pretty much overrode his own statement, leading us to conclude that his previous remarks were put out there to move along the NFL discipline portion of a case that has also included settlements of 23 civil suits brought forth from the cast of 24 women who alleged sexual misconduct during massage sessions.

The fast change in posture should turn stomachs at NFL headquarters.

Of course, Watson arrived in Cleveland expressing his innocence. When he was introduced as the recipient of a fully guaranteed five-year, $230 million contract with the Browns, he insisted that he didn’t have a “problem” and contended that there was no need for counseling.

One thing that seems obvious, given the mixed messages expressed on Thursday: Watson still needs professional help.

That is not to disparage the man who, as part of the settlement struck by the NFL and NFL Players Association, will undergo an evaluation and treatment as a component of his discipline. It’s just that the messages, wrapped in denial, further underscore the need for treatment.

If Watson didn’t see the “problem” that resulted in the mess that put his career on hold, then that’s a problem. Perhaps treatment and counseling will delve into root causes connected to the allegations and all that they suggest about violating boundaries.

Despite his contention in March that he didn’t need counseling, Watson voluntarily began therapy last spring and last Friday maintained that he wanted to continue that – which might coincide with what is now mandatory. It seemed like a positive that Watson had seemingly embraced counseling, even with the stigma that is surely attached as one of the consequences to his apparent behavior.

It looks like Watson had NFL commissioner Roger Goodell convinced. In the NFL news release outlining the discipline, Goodell maintained, “Deshaun has committed to doing the hard work on himself that is necessary.”

Well, with the manner in which Watson called an audible, it’s fair to wonder about the level of commitment from Watson for the work on himself.

This cloud could hang over Watson – and over the Browns owners, Jimmy and Dee Haslam – for the rest of his NFL career. And then some.

Still, despite the wishes of some that Watson should never step foot on an NFL field again, this shouldn't be about throwing him away.

Watson surely needs to pay a price, as he has and will in the form of his suspension, reputation and millions of dollars in a fine and the settling of civil suits.

But, as Thursday reminded us, he is also a man who needs help.

Follow USA TODAY Sports' Jarrett Bell on Twitter @JarrettBell.
Watson's mixed messages/comments after the terms of his punishment were announced screamed loudly to all concerned THAT WATSON NEEDS HELP...and hopefully the NFL's mandatory counseling can help Watson understand himself.

I've been concerned that Watson was only doing and saying what those around him advised..folks like the lawyers, friends, family, team management.

The NFL's mandatory counseling might be the most helpful portion of the punishment handed down to Watson by the NFL.





The issue seems to be at this time that in order to solve a problem first you have to admit it's a problem. So far that isn't the case with watson.
Quote
Deshaun Watson's accountability about-face after suspension underscores serious problem | Opinion

Opinion by Jarrett Bell, USA TODAY - Aug 19
link

There are multiple ways to decipher the mixed messages we heard from Deshaun Watson shortly after his monumental settlement with the NFL came down on Thursday. Here are a few:

Playing both ends against the middle.

Wanting to have his cake and eat it, too.

Wishy-washy.

Serious denial.

It never ceases to amaze me how ignorant people are. Or, how desperate they are to attract clicks.

Watson can't admit guilt because doing so would be used against him in civil court and it could even draw the interest of the criminal courts. A reporter should know that. Hell, the public should know that, but they don't want to know it.
rofl

He'll have one helluva time ever seeing the field in an NFL game again without showing remorse for his actions. It seems like that something you don't want to see.
You think Watson needs help..?

...you know, the subject I commented on..it seems that the NFL realizes that Watson might benefit from some 'mandatory counseling'...

You want to call folks names, looking to start an argument..? WE CAN DO THAT, IF YOU WANT..

Originally Posted by mac
Watson's mixed messages/comments after the terms of his punishment were announced screamed loudly to all concerned THAT WATSON NEEDS HELP...and hopefully the NFL's mandatory counseling can help Watson understand himself.

I've been concerned that Watson was only doing and saying what those around him advised..folks like the lawyers, friends, family, team management.

The NFL's mandatory counseling might be the most helpful portion of the punishment handed down to Watson by the NFL.






Watson still has one case pending. I am sure his attorney has instructed him to not admit anything.

Pretty standard procedure.
I didn't call you names. I was talking about how the hell can a reporter not know that Watson can't publicly admit to crimes. It's not that hard to understand.
You still refuse to address the subject of my post...DOES WATSON NEED HELP..?

The kind of help that the NFL made mandatory as one of the conditions of Watson's suspension...You think Watson might benefit from counseling..?

Any conversations Watson has with counselors would be considered confidential and private...therefore the patient can feel free to have open conversations and not worry about some lawyer telling him what to say.

You think Watson might benefit from the NFL's counseling program..?
I am not qualified to evaluate if he needs help or not. Neither are you. I will speak about what I do know and not play silly speculative games. Watson absolutely cannot admit guilt due to pending and possible Civil suits. Also, there is no Double Jeopardy in in regards to possible criminal complaints because Watson was never charged w/a crime. This has been covered by legal experts, so the author of the article you posted is either completely ignorant or trying to mislead people. Either is plausible.
First, you don't know me and you have no idea if I'm qualified to judge Watson...but that really doesn't matter. We know you are not qualified to judge Watson because your bias runs so deep on everything Watson that you can't even allow these words to come out of your mouth..."Watson needs some help/counseling"..!

The NFL knows Watson needs counseling because the NFL has had the opportunity to spend a considerable amount of time with Watson on multiple occasions and in their judgement, WATSON IS DEFINITELY IN NEED OF COUNSELING..."MANDATORY COUNSELING"..!

Watson already started counseling weeks ago and as I tried to point out to you, what Watson says during his session with the counselors is not subject to legal jeopardy because his counseling sessions are privileged information and not subject to disclosure to anyone unless the patient agrees. Watson can admit to anything he wants to discuss during his sessions without worry that what he says during those session might be used in future civil or past civil suits.

Don't believe me, look it up..!
Right. You performed psychoanalysis on Waton. rolleyes
Originally Posted by mac
First, you don't know me and you have no idea if I'm qualified to judge Watson...but that really doesn't matter. We know you are not qualified to judge Watson because your bias runs so deep on everything Watson that you can't even allow these words to come out of your mouth..."Watson needs some help/counseling"..!

The NFL knows Watson needs counseling because the NFL has had the opportunity to spend a considerable amount of time with Watson on multiple occasions and in their judgement, WATSON IS DEFINITELY IN NEED OF COUNSELING..."MANDATORY COUNSELING"..!

Watson already started counseling weeks ago and as I tried to point out to you, what Watson says during his session with the counselors is not subject to legal jeopardy because his counseling sessions are privileged information and not subject to disclosure to anyone unless the patient agrees. Watson can admit to anything he wants to discuss during his sessions without worry that what he says during those session might be used in future civil or past civil suits.

Don't believe me, look it up..!

Right, but your comments are about mixed messages in public comments.

Very few know what is being said in private conversations. I also question that you know what the guy needs. I also feel that mandatory counseling is useless. Counseling only works when a person opens up to that and does so on their own terms. One only finds God when one seeks God. AA only works when a person wants to go to AA. The list goes on and on.
JMHO, Watson MIGHT benefit from a group like AA- SLAA, Sex and Love Addiction Anonymously - he learned love and sex in the hood- he might not have midwestern sex/ moral values. The NFL has mandated he get counseling - it remains to be seen if he changes his values and attitudes. Our wonderful country has millions of porn and sex addicts, some don't know the difference between fantasy and reality.
When Berry was being interviewed last night in the game he said Watson is in counseling right now.
I thought that was already known.
I feel like I've read this over and over... WTH is "he learned love and sex in the hood"? Is it just you that keeps on posting that? I could swear people in the media have as well.

Disfunction is everywhere in our society, quit blaming the hood. Love and sex is everywhere as well, most of it wholesome and "unadulterated", quit acting like "the hood" spawns some strange form of perversion. Besides all that, connecting "the hood" to trying to get your kicks on a massage table is a bit of a stretch.

Deshaun is an intelligent human and an adult. I don't care if he was raised in a rabbit pen, he's responsible for his own actions.

Edit: was responding to hitt, not Pit.
Originally Posted by Ballpeen
Watson still has one case pending. I am sure his attorney has instructed him to not admit anything.

Pretty standard procedure.

Somewhere you must have missed it. Him admitting he actually did something wrong is one of the main reasons she refuses to settle or this case would most likely be settled too.

Quote
Final Deshaun Watson Plaintiff Shares Why She Rejected Settlements

“Every boundary from professional and therapeutic to sexual and degrading you crossed or attempted to cross,” Baxley’s statement read. “You insisted that I not use my knuckles or forearms, but that I use my fingers for digital stimulation, which is an ethical violation of massage practice when working in the gluteal area.”

After Thursday’s decision, Watson did not directly apologize to any of the women involved in the lawsuits. Instead, he said “I apologize once again for any pain this situation has caused.” Because of the lack of a direct apology to the women involved, Baxley is not ready to settle her case.

“I have rejected all settlement offers, in part because they have not included any sincere acknowledgment of remorse and wrongdoings, nor have they included any promises of rehabilitative treatment,” Baxley wrote. “Watson still refuses to admit that he harassed and committed indecent assault against me. Any settlement offer he has made has been a dismissal of his evil actions, and I know that unless there is an authoritative intervention, he will continue his destructive behavior.”

https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/08/19/deshaun-watson-final-plaintiff-shares-why-she-rejected-settlements

There's more of the article at the link but this is the part relevant to your comment. The only thing he could actually be concerned with is that he knows it would open the door to even more of his victims to come forward or the possibility he might face criminal charges moving forward for his despicable actions. His refusal to accept responsibility would help settle the remaining case. It would not fare well for what is yet to come. And he knows that.
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
I am not qualified to evaluate if he needs help or not. Neither are you.

rofl
Originally Posted by Frenchy
When Berry was being interviewed last night in the game he said Watson is in counseling right now.

Yet he, nor watson, nor anyone else has stated that the counseling is in any way about his sexual actions or even sexually related. What watson stated was it was to make him the best person he can be. People can get counseling for about anything. There has been no accountability. There has been nothing stated that the counseling he is receiving is in any way associated with his sexually predatory behavior.
Because he is such a public figure, I guess he has no right to ANY privacy. I'm sure you'd want your medical and counseling history presented to the world publicly. I think that's against the law.
You know I hate the whole Watson deal, but TBH, since he was suspended I've reconciled that that is the way it is and I'm ready to watch football. But for some reason OTHER THAN WATSON, I feel completely deflated even thinking about this year and the team. I just feel like we were on the precipice of being on the hunt for the next several years and for now, that feeling is completely gone. All I see now is another crappy season coming.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
The issue seems to be at this time that in order to solve a problem first you have to admit it's a problem. So far that isn't the case with watson.

Something that I felt was missing from the Robinson punishment and I'm glad was added to the appeal punishment was the treatment/assessment. If he truly is just going through the motions as bad as that article is stating, then he should catch a bunch of grief when he tries to get back on the field (and rightfully so).
Originally Posted by hitt
Because he is such a public figure, I guess he has no right to ANY privacy. I'm sure you'd want your medical and counseling history presented to the world publicly. I think that's against the law.

Yeah, he should never publicly apologize and state that he's receiving treatment for the problem. The NFL will love that.
I think those who keep thinking watson will be here for a decade or more need to consider what transpired in his career before he came here. In September of 2020 watson signed a four year contract with the Texans. By January he was demanding they trade him and refused to play for them the entire 2021 season. Can you imagine how THAT would feel as a fan? In less than four calendar months Texan's fans thought they had their QB for the next four years to him throwing a tantrum and refusing to play. I doubt he'll do that with him having a 230 mil, guaranteed contract. But then there is what happens after that? And there's never been any doubt that watson is a much better QB on the field than Baker. But it seems quite obvious that better play will bring far more dire immaturity. Compared to what watson put Texans fans through, what Baker did here was a drop in the bucket.

But hey, none of that matters, right? Some sound as though they either don't know about that, want to forget about that or want to make excuses for that. But don't think watson considers any of you or that uniform he wears that Browns fans place so much loyalty into any more important than he did Texan fans and that uniform. Because he doesn't. It's just a paycheck to him. We saw what happened the last time around. Don't think you can't or won't be next.
Isn't it just a paycheck to all the players?
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Yeah, he should never publicly apologize and state that he's receiving treatment for the problem.

He shouldn't. He doesn't owe the public anything.
Originally Posted by Rishuz
Isn't it just a paycheck to all the players?

To some extent of course it is. But can you give me examples of players signing a four year contract then demanding a trade four months later? Looking at prior behavior tends to be something some wish to dismiss, ignore or brush off.
Originally Posted by Rishuz
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Yeah, he should never publicly apologize and state that he's receiving treatment for the problem.

He shouldn't. He doesn't owe the public anything.

Let's hope the NFL agrees with you. At some point he's going to have to man up and say he's gotten help for his sexual proclivities. You seem to forget how this all works. See Kareem hunt for a reference. You man up, say you've sought help for what you did and apologize. That or you don't play. He owes a public apology to his victims. I understand you object to that.
New NFL scandal, Watson is old news
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
I think those who keep thinking watson will be here for a decade or more need to consider what transpired in his career before he came here. In September of 2020 watson signed a four year contract with the Texans. By January he was demanding they trade him and refused to play for them the entire 2021 season. Can you imagine how THAT would feel as a fan? In less than four calendar months Texan's fans thought they had their QB for the next four years to him throwing a tantrum and refusing to play. I doubt he'll do that with him having a 230 mil, guaranteed contract. But then there is what happens after that? And there's never been any doubt that watson is a much better QB on the field than Baker. But it seems quite obvious that better play will bring far more dire immaturity. Compared to what watson put Texans fans through, what Baker did here was a drop in the bucket.

But hey, none of that matters, right? Some sound as though they either don't know about that, want to forget about that or want to make excuses for that. But don't think watson considers any of you or that uniform he wears that Browns fans place so much loyalty into any more important than he did Texan fans and that uniform. Because he doesn't. It's just a paycheck to him. We saw what happened the last time around. Don't think you can't or won't be next.


Not sure why you addressed this to me unless you somehow think I'll root for Watson from what I said in my last post. Wrong. But I'm going to watch and root for the team. And I'm not gonna stop being a Browns Fan because of Watson, you, god, or anybody else, period. You feel your way, I'll feel mine.
It was not intended to be directed to you. But please, wear it with pride Bud.
Originally Posted by FloridaFan
New NFL scandal, Watson is old news

This is a Browns issue. And here you are. Tell me how old news it is when the opposing fans are calling him names and booing the team over watson when he returns.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
It was not intended to be directed to you. But please, wear it with pride Bud.

I got your bud.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Originally Posted by Rishuz
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Yeah, he should never publicly apologize and state that he's receiving treatment for the problem.

He shouldn't. He doesn't owe the public anything.

Let's hope the NFL agrees with you. At some point he's going to have to man up and say he's gotten help for his sexual proclivities. You seem to forget how this all works. See Kareem hunt for a reference. You man up, say you've sought help for what you did and apologize. That or you don't play. He owes a public apology to his victims. I understand you object to that.

Actually he cannot publicly apologize for wrong doing. Steven A Smith brought this up a few weeks ago. He spoke with an attorney that is a friend of his and if Watson admits wrong doing 1) it effects his 1 open case and 2) opens him back up to the grand juries possibly. He can publicly own up for being responsible for his actions in the future, apologize for those that were impacted by this situation like he has, but he cannot admit to wrong doing in anyway shape or form.
Originally Posted by OldColdDawg
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
It was not intended to be directed to you. But please, wear it with pride Bud.

I got your bud.

Of course you do. rofl
You may be right about possible future criminal prosecutions. Of course you're taking the word of Steven A. Smith here.

But as it pertains to the one remaining civil suit it is one of her demands to settle the suit. It's been posted at least twice on the board that I know of. She says that until he steps up and admits wrong doing he has done nothing to address it and she will not settle. So I guess he's between a real rock and a hard place here huh? At least he's the one in a hard place now instead of him forcing a hard place on women.
Accused Rapist Matt Araiza's Fate Proves Deshaun Watson Defenders Are Mostly Delusional

How else to explain caping for a guy who's allegedly done things that would get anyone else fired?

A wild but predictable thing happened last weekend: after the Buffalo Bills cut rookie punter Matt Araiza, who might be in steep legal trouble over allegations of a gang rape he allegedly participated in with his college teammates, fans of Deshaun Watson nutted up. Total silence. Not a peep.

Not that I expected Watson fans, who these days are generally synonymous with Cleveland Browns fans, to take to the streets over another team’s punter. It’s just that for months while the NFL litigated the length of Watson’s suspension over his alleged sexual harassment and assault of 24 massage therapists in Texas, his fans seemed to be standing in solidarity with him on the same principles that one would assume would have made them also empathetic to Araiza’s current situation.

Across social media, the excuse-making of Watson’s defenders seemed like a tell that many of them lacked a basic understanding of how employment works, or more specifically, how discipline works when somebody else signs your check every week. How else to explain the wave of folks who have argued that the NFL had no business suspending Watson just because he had faced a criminal investigation and two dozen lawsuits over accusations he did something terrible?

Forget for a moment that a man allegedly exposing his penis, masturbating and ejaculating during what were supposed to be routine massage therapy sessions is heinous behavior. The fact is that no nine-to-fiver would ever stand a chance in hell of reporting to work once they’ve been sued for such a thing—especially not after their current workplace found out that their former employer–in Watson’s case the Houston Texans–had been forced to settle lawsuits with his accusers, too. No employer wants those kind of problems and plenty of folks get fired for less. But for many of Watson’s fans, the NFL is unfairly persecuting him over unproven allegations.

Watson, his legal team and the NFL Players Association finally negotiated an 11-game suspension and $5 million fine from the NFL in early August. That’s getting off light considering the league wanted him gone at least a year and the Browns structured his record $230 million contract to blunt the impact of any missed time in his first season in Cleveland. I was once suspended from a gig for writing a freelance article without permission; I lost a week’s pay. (Luckily the freelance check was worth more than I would’ve made that week, and I hated the job, which was filled with some of the most evil people I’ve ever encountered).

Point being, Watson’s suspension is a much fairer shake than any of his fans would get for far lesser offenses, which seems remarkably lost on many of them. That brings us back to Araiza, who is being sued by an unidentified 18-year-old woman who alleges he and two former San Diego State University teammates raped her last October, while she was a minor. Araiza has yet to have a day in court and as of now hasn’t been charged with a crime, but his job and likely his hopes of ever playing in the NFL are gone. Watson sympathizers have been quiet as a church mouse snacking on a piece of holy cheese about Araiza’s fate.

“This is bigger than football,” said Bills General Manager Brandon Beane in a press conference last Saturday after the team cut Araiza. He’s exactly right: sexual assault is bigger than football, even when it’s only an allegation yet to be proven in court or charged by a prosecutor. The Bills weren’t wrong for cutting him under the circumstances, but that decision was made a lot easier by the fact that Araiza was a rookie punter hoping to make a roster as opposed to the newly-signed, highest-paid quarterback in NFL history. What the Bills and, by extension, the NFL have said is that Araiza’s position and level of talent made him more easily expendable than Watson, whose arm strength and potential to take the bad-news Browns to Super Bowl glory are what kept him in the league and not on the unemployment line. Apparently his talent also makes fans who would also be unemployed if they were in his shoes totally OK with that double standard.

https://www.theroot.com/accused-rapist-matt-araizas-fate-proves-deshaun-watson-1849476274
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
But as it pertains to the one remaining civil suit it is one of her demands to settle the suit. It's been posted at least twice on the board that I know of. She says that until he steps up and admits wrong doing he has done nothing to address it and she will not settle.

I would think that would be a "can I get that in writing?" type of situation.
That article is pretty dumb. I'll start from the end and work back.

The Bills knew about the Araiza allegation 1-2 weeks before they released him. They also released the punter that was competing with him AFTER they found out. So they did the right thing, but only after testing the waters. Not exactly the beacon of accountability Mr. theroot.com is making them out to be. Also, writer doesn't seem to understand the difference between a QB and a punter. You think Bills would release Josh Allen over an allegation? I don't.

Journo's really need to quit it with the "us normal folk would never get away with this" shtick. It rings hollow, because instead of an indictment against the person they're railing against (Watson, in this case) it's actually an indictment of the system so long as the readers are at least somewhat paying attention. NFL has a well-established track record of poor and inconsistent/biased discipline, and got taken to the woodshed by Robinson just as much as she did to Watson in her report.

In his rant, there's absolutely zero mention of the Texans and their involvement. I don't say that to try to take any spotlight away from Watson, but I am always so surprised how certain folks can be so passionate against the perpetrator (Watson) but have absolutely nothing to say of the people and orgs that intentionally looked the other way and actively enabled his actions. Texans have settled more cases than Watson has, but you don't hear a peep. Watson is a big problem, but THE problem is much bigger than Watson.

An early tipoff to garbage reporting is the line about how basically all Browns fans are Watson defenders. Dude CLEARLY didn't check in with Browns Twitter, much less Dawgtalkers before he wrote that article.
The article was trash. More witch hunting by the self righteous.
I don't disagree with the overall premise. Watson did stuff that puts him into 'human trash' level. At this point, there's a fair amount of willful ignorance involved in defending Watson the person.

It's just that, much like the Bills trying to look like they're guided by some lofty ethical standard, the article misses the mark if you've been paying any amount of attention. The argument against Watson the person, even at this point when him and the NFL are just checking boxes until he gets back on the field and it all blows over a short time after, would be so much better served if there was more information/truth in the place of slapped-on outrage.
Actually it appears that what they're saying is that it's only Browns fans that are defending watson. I didn't get that "all Browns fans" feel from it that you did. And I agree with you for the most part. I believe if the player in question had been Josh Allan things most likely would have been handled very differently. But then doesn't that pretty much provide the evidence that it's not about what you did but who you are?

And that works for some people. Not so much for others.
He said Watson fans are generally synonymous with Cleveland fans. My understanding of that phrase is that the two groups are the same as each other. I dunno... assuming the author knows and used that phrase accurately is more props than I'm prepared to give.

Originally Posted by PitDAWG
But then doesn't that pretty much provide the evidence that it's not about what you did but who you are?

And that works for some people. Not so much for others.

This is why I get so worked up about the NFL piece of this story. I agree wholeheartedly with what you're saying, and there is a very specific reason for it (the NFL allows/tolerates it as much as it feels it can get away with).
I'm just glad that the NFL has finally realized they can't get away with treating it as mildly as they have in the past. I hope that trend continues moving forward. I agree with you that the reason they're doing so is pressure from the outside. I mean it's not in their best interest to have any of their top name players off the field. And let's face it, their bottom line is the main focus of their decisions. Only when they feel it is more detrimental to their bottom line not to act, will they act. And once again, we just see the synonymous thing differently. I see it more as closely associated with something. Which is actually pretty accurate here. Most of those supporting watson are associated with being Browns fans.
I haven't followed Pit's line of thinking and I did not get to read the article, but are all three of you equating the allegation of gang raping a minor while she was intoxicated to the allegation against Watson, where there was no force, violence, and coercion?
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
I'm just glad that the NFL has finally realized they can't get away with treating it as mildly as they have in the past. I hope that trend continues moving forward.

See, I'm not seeing that at all. They'll act as long as people yell long and loud enough to act. Ultimately, they'll continue to pick and choose which players they want to punish and do nothing about contributing/enabling causes, based on how this whole thing has unfolded.
We certainly see it differently. I look at it from a numbers standpoint. Over half of the American population are female. The NFL has been catering their efforts to draw more females to their fan base. So as it relates to sexual abuse against women I see it as a sign moving forward they will address the matter more severely. Not so much because it's the right thing to do but because they don't wish to alienate a large portion of the female audience they have been catering to. To think for a moment the NFL picked or chose to punish one of their top players this strictly I find would go against their own bottom line unless the price they paid for not doing it wasn't worse.

I guess we'll find out moving forward. But think of it this way, since they've given watson this type of punishment, how do you think they can get away with less in the future? It seems as if they sort of painted themselves into a corner moving forward with stiffer penalties for such actions. And I don't believe they didn't realize that when they did it.
Comparing the last 2 helmet-clubbing incidents should tell you that there's no corner the NFL can't get itself out of.
I know that seems like a point of contention with many. But what they don't seem to wish to consider is that there's fights during those same type of practices and preseason games that would get players suspended and throw out of regular season games. Yet the NFL never gets involved in those things during the preseason. Yet somehow they think this should be a special circumstance. And if it isn't, the NFL hates the Browns.
So do you agree or disagree that performing the same act in a preseason practice vs primetime game shifts the punishment from indefinite suspension to nothing? Are you buying what the NFL is selling in terms of the disparity in punishment for the same act? If you aren't, do you not think they'd use the same tactic (that being thinly-veiled BS) in other situations?
I think in this situation they handled it the way they always do in terms of the preseason. I don't think that's right nor do I think the same situation should be handled differently depending on whether or not it's the preseason. But that is their standard operating procedure whether we like it or not and was not changed or altered to suit the situation.
Agree, JMHO, and the real problem for the Browns.....Watson NEVER has to play a game and he gets paid. A poster mentioned he changed his mind after signing a contract- four months after.....SO!!! He was and is a multi-millionaire- he can do what he wants- if he's just a little sensible he's already set for life. We will see how important football is to him.....good luck to Browns!!!
Al Michaels ripped for 'insensitive' commentary during Deshaun Watson segment

Legendary broadcaster Al Michaels has come under criticism on social media for his coverage of the suspension of Cleveland Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson over allegations of sexual misconduct.

Michaels, calling the Steelers-Browns game on Thursday Night Football for Amazon, declined to explain why Watson had been suspended 11 games and fined $5 million during a brief segment on the case coming out of a commercial break late in the second quarter.

Then, after detailing the potential timeline for Watson's return, Michaels noted that many NFL owners weren't pleased with the fully guaranteed record contract Watson secured from the Browns.

“A tremendously controversial deal on so many levels obviously. A lot of the owners around the league weren’t happy about it. And a $230 million dollar fully guaranteed contract for the man who, they hope, is a franchise quarterback.”

Finally, after sideline reporter Kaylee Hartung outlined Watson's treatment plan as part of his suspension, Michaels quipped that the hefty guaranteed salary ought to be enough to ensure Watson "does the things he needs to do."

“Kaylee, if $230 million guaranteed doesn’t motivate you to do the things you need to do, I give up,”

Meanwhile, Michaels' broadcast partner, analyst Kirk Herbstreit, remained silent throughout the entire segment.

On social media, several tweets criticizing Michaels' handling of the segment saw high engagement.

ESPN senior reporter Don Van Natta Jr. criticized Michaels for not mentioning Watson's victims and instead centering the NFL's "billionaire" owners in the segment.

Ashley Colley, an associate producer for ESPN's SportsCenter, said Michaels' commentary was "truly insensitive."

What a truly insensitive comment from Al Michaels about the Deshaun Watson situation. And yet it won't be the last. Educate yourselves or just don't talk. It's so exhausting all the time.
— Ashley Colley (@ashleycolley) September 23, 2022


Tyler Greever, a local sports reporter in Louisville, Kentucky, called the segment "garbage."

Many other journalists and fans struck a similar chord:





https://www.audacy.com/937thefan/sp...NSV1yvzBCzfe_YLp8v7IXsCSsiUdhA9UOfaw0CzE
Load of crap. It's not his job to educate everyone on a subject the whole planet has been aware of for a year+. Love how everybody wants to jump on their soapbox and condemn anyone that doesn't attach PC disclaimers to everything they talk about. We live in a world where you can't even say "I'm not gay" unless you follow with "not that there's anything wrong with that" or else a bunch of vultures jump on your case and call you "the problem". What a joke.

And Herbstreit is supposed to call him out, or he's not doing his job?? 🤣 GTHOH. "His silence speaks volumes." Bunch of pansies.
No kidding. Anybody that's watching the game already knows what's going on with Watson. The only "infection that never seems to end" is the non fan trying to instigate in multiple threads.
It seemed like he wanted to avoid throwing it in Browns fans' faces yet again. That was my take. And the bit about the owners is true, we all know it. That's why this is a story. He irked a bunch of Billionaires. Twitter will be pissed every time the Browns play this year. Just the way it is with DW on the roster.
yea i thought it was clear his comments about the 230 mill was in regards to the treatment outlined for him to get back on the field. i think any of us would say the same thing in response to that; a version of "yea, if thats the treatment he has to seek, 230 mill should be more than a motivating factor to fulfill that treatment."
#snowflake

I don't make the news, I just report it.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
#snowflake

I don't make the news, I just report it.

You also spin it into something else and gaslight it.
I posted an article. I didn't add anything or detract anything that was included in the article. Try again. Previously I have used the findings of a retired judge and her conclusions based on the totality of the evidence.. Someone with experience who studied and saw witnesses that included every facet of this case. Which nobody else on this board has done. Gaslighting seems to be a popular term with you which does not apply here.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
I posted an article. I didn't add anything or detract anything that was included in the article. Try again. Previously I have used the findings of a retired judge and her conclusions based on the totality of the evidence.. Someone with experience who studied and saw witnesses that included every facet of this case. Which nobody else on this board has done. Gaslighting seems to be a popular term with you which does not apply here.

You posted an opinion piece that you call news.

Of course I was speaking in more of a general sense, but you use spin to point at this one post. You are not some guardian of truth that has had you good name besmirched. You will spin a story, you will gaslight us about it and then you will insult us when you ge called on it.

"Just" report the news? Not even close.

You have spun what the former judge said, you have disregarded anything that doesn't play your narrative, and you have continued to be the infection.

"Just" report the news? You don't even understand what news is, and what spun opinion is.
Why did you decide to come here and whine? This will be talked about every time the Browns are on national TV. It will be talked about right before and the entire season after watson's return. Just so we're straight here. The judge said watson was a liar. She also stated he acted in a predatory manner involving his conduct which was most certainly of a sexual nature. Nothing about that is twisted or made up.

If you and others wish to whine about that, have at it. But I will be posting it. If anyone is twisting anything here, it's you and others in your never ending refusal to accept the truth. The judge made that all very clear. So continue your rant and whining.
Quote
Why did you decide to come here and whine? This will be talked about every time the Browns are on national TV.

Yet your post is nothing but whining because it wasn't. blush crazy blush
Well of course it was. You do understand that I'm going to post articles I see about watson, right? Or have you missed that? And yes, in case you also missed it, it was talked about on a nationally broadcast NFL game. It did bother many people because it didn't speak about the actual details of the incident what was referred to. I posted an article that pointed that out. All anyone has done since then is complain about it. You are no different. You can either deal with the fact I will post such articles or you can whine about it. That choice is up to you.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Well of course it was. You do understand that I'm going to post articles I see about watson, right? Or have you missed that? And yes, in case you also missed it, it was talked about on a nationally broadcast NFL game. It did bother many people because it didn't speak about the actual details of the incident what was referred to. I posted an article that pointed that out. All anyone has done since then is complain about it. You are no different. You can either deal with the fact I will post such articles or you can whine about it. That choice is up to you.

This is what spin looks like.


It was mentioned It was not harped on. It was not the major topic of discussion.

They also mentioned Ben Roethlisberger, but that doesn't mean it was noteworthy point of discussion that consumed anything more than a negligible amount air time. Much like the Watson discussions, it was a minor point during the broadcast.

How many people did it bother? The few that were included in the twitter responses you included? Quantify.

Constantly using words like many or phrases like "it was talked about" are merely words spin doctors use to inflate the impact of things because, in reality, the subject they want us to believe isn't really as big a deal as they want it to be.

You accuse anyone that doesn't agree with your spin and trolling to be whiners. Do you realize that just because you cannot stop doesn't not make you right?
Speaking of spin. Maybe you should look at it again. You refuse to address the fact the judge called watson a liar. You refuse to address the fact that she said he was a predator. You refuse to admit the fact that this wasn't some one liner during the games broadcast. The spin here is that you wish to downplay all of it. I haven't accused anyone of trolling. That is a lie. I'm sorry you refuse to admit what actually happened. That's a you issue. I feel sorry for fans who can't seem to come to grips with what watson did and would rather try to downplay it than own it. Instead you spin in circles over semantics. It's not a good look. And as you try to downplay it, this isn't the only article that addresses the issue. Maybe it's a bigger issue than you wish to admit.......
Kahler: Will any NFL TV broadcast say why Deshaun Watson is suspended?

With just under four minutes left in the second quarter of the Steelers at Browns Thursday Night Football game, the Amazon broadcast finally addressed Deshaun Watson’s suspension. In the game’s opening moments, Al Michaels called the Browns trade for Watson and the massive contract they gave him a “tremendously controversial deal on so many levels, obviously,” but didn’t elaborate further until it was nearly halftime and the camera found Browns owner Jimmy Haslam sitting in his box.

“Jimmy Haslam and his wife Dee own the Cleveland Browns,” Al Michaels said. “Of course, a lot of news, the biggest news maybe of the off season was the trade with Houston. Deshaun Watson, suspended 11 games, fined five million bucks for violating the league’s personal conduct policy.”

While Michaels talked about the suspension without mentioning the reason why Watson was actually suspended, the Amazon broadcast flashed a graphic with a detailed timeline showing the key dates for his return from said suspension.

OCT 10: ELIGIBLE TO RETURN TO TEAM FACILITY FOR MEETINGS AND CONDITIONING

NOV 14: ELIGIBLE TO RETURN TO PRACTICE

NOV 28: ELIGIBLE TO RETURN TO ACTIVE ROSTER

DEC 4: POTENTIAL FIRST GAME VS. TEXANS

Here's Al Michaels' and Kaylee Hartung's Deshaun Watson suspension discussion during Amazon's Thursday Night Football broadcast.

The Tweet is in the previous post. The discussion on air lasted for 1:41. It was not just some passing comment.

Michaels then tossed to sideline reporter Kaylee Hartung, who quickly read off a list of specific details from the settlement but only went so far as to use the word “behavior” to reference why Watson was suspended.

“Al, part of Watson’s settlement requires that he receive treatment for his behavior, and that is ongoing,” she said. “And the most vital condition to his reinstatement is that his clinician, who was approved by the league and players union, has final determination as to whether Watson faithful and fully participated in this treatment plan. If that happens, the settlement calls for reinstatement in accordance with the timeline defined in the suspension, and it stipulated that he must only use team massage therapists for the remainder of his career.”

Michaels then said, “Kaylee, if $230 million guaranteed doesn’t motivate you to do the things you need to do, then I give up.” (A remark that I don’t have the time or energy to get into here).

What was Watson’s behavior? Why is this controversial on so many levels? What are the things he needs to do? Why can he only use team massage therapists?

The Amazon broadcast never mentioned the 24 women who sued Watson for allegations of sexual misconduct during massage appointments. The closest they got to the topic was Hartung’s out-of-context reference that Watson can only use team massage therapists.

Neither Amazon nor the NFL’s vice president of communications, who works with the league’s broadcast partners, responded to an email request for comment.

This was the Browns’ first appearance in primetime this season, meaning a significant portion of the audience tuning in probably weren’t Browns fans and may not have been aware of the details of this story that started when Ashley Solis filed the first lawsuit against Watson in March 2021, saying that during a massage appointment, Watson intentionally touched her hand with his exposed and erect penis.

Amazon had an opportunity to lay out the timeline of the Browns offseason “controversy” and Watson’s last year-and-a-half for a national audience but instead focused on the timeline of his return to action from a mysterious suspension.

Here’s the timeline they could have illustrated: In March, Cleveland traded for Watson, who at the time, had 22 civil lawsuits filed against him by women who alleged sexual misconduct during massage therapy appointments. Just before the trade, a grand jury in Texas returned a no bill, meaning Watson would not face criminal charges for the allegations women reported to Houston police. A few days after the trade, a second grand jury in Texas declined to bring sexual misconduct charges against Watson. After the Browns traded for Watson and gave him the first fully guaranteed contract in the NFL, two more women filed lawsuits with similar allegations. In June, Watson settled 20 of the 24 lawsuits, and in August, he settled two more. There is one active lawsuit remaining. The woman who filed it, Lauren Baxley, has said publicly that she will not settle, because Watson lacks remorse and, “still refuses to admit that he harassed and committed indecent assault against me.”

Independent arbitrator judge Sue L. Robinson returned a decision on Watson in August that concluded Watson “engaged in sexual assault” and “his conduct posed a genuine danger to the safety and well-being of another person.” The NFL appealed the six-game suspension and ended up settling with the NFL Players’ Association on an 11-game suspension. But that settlement did not change Robinson’s decision on Watson: “Watson’s pattern of conduct is more egregious than any before reviewed by the NFL,” Robinson wrote.

The broadcast did not reference Robinson’s decision at all.

CBS had Cleveland’s first two games of the season, both in the early windows, at Carolina and vs. the New York Jets. CBS’s crew of Spero Dedes, Jay Feely and Aditi Kinkhabwala did not address the reason why Watson was suspended.

Instead, Dedes and Feely focused on Watson backup-turned-temporary-starter Jacoby Brissett. “Here comes Jacoby Brissett,” Dedes said in Week 1. “We heard in Aditi’s report how they kind of handled the offseason. They had the plan in place, Jacoby Brissett, he’s been here so many times, Indianapolis and New England, as he takes his first baby steps in Cleveland.”

“Yeah (Brissett) told us, this situation is what I have always experienced in my career,” Feely said. “So it’s not different to me. He’s a big, strong QB, he doesn’t take chances with the ball. He doesn’t turn the ball over. It’s a system that I think fits him really well.”

But Brissett is not in the same situation all over again. In Indianapolis, the starter in front of him unexpectedly retired because he was tired of being hurt all the time. In New England, the starter in front of him was suspended for four games for deflating footballs, a violation of the league’s policy on the integrity of the game. In Cleveland, the starter in front of him is suspended for 11 games, for “allegations of non-violent sexual conduct,” a violation of the league’s personal conduct policy.

Amazon, and CBS, as rights holders, are in business with the NFL and its 32 owners. Network rights holders have never been known to go into detail about allegations or criminal charges involving domestic violence or sexual assault. They set their own limits to appease their business partners and any regular NFL viewer has come to expect this.

But that doesn’t mean we should ignore it just because they do.

https://theathletic.com/3622970/2022/09/23/deshaun-watson-suspension-nfl-broadcasts/

NFL Twitter facepalms over how Al Michaels handled the Deshaun Watson discussion

https://fansided.com/2022/09/22/nfl-twitter-al-michaels-deshaun-watson/
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Speaking of spin. Maybe you should look at it again. You refuse to address the fact the judge called watson a liar. You refuse to address the fact that she said he was a predator. You refuse to admit the fact that this wasn't some one liner during the games broadcast. The spin here is that you wish to downplay all of it. I haven't accused anyone of trolling. That is a lie. I'm sorry you refuse to admit what actually happened. That's a you issue. I feel sorry for fans who can't seem to come to grips with what watson did and would rather try to downplay it than own it. Instead you spin in circles over semantics. It's not a good look. And as you try to downplay it, this isn't the only article that addresses the issue. Maybe it's a bigger issue than you wish to admit.......

I have come to grips with what he did.

Keep in mind in all the ranting and spitting of vitriol you do here, attacking other fans (well, attacking fans you aren't one) you fail to realize, address or otherwise understand:

The judgement of Robinson was an employment decision. He got in trouble at work. This doesn't require him to register as a sex offender, it doesn't put him behind bars, his entire discipline at this point in regards to what Robinson wrote is about his employment.

You continue to spin it, will continue to spin it, and you will use it, not because you give one whit about any women he had contact with, but because you get to troll fans of a team you are not a fan of.

Enjoy your own whining on your troll thread, it really must be the only thing in life that brings you pleasure.
Originally Posted by PortlandDawg
Nope. His victims got paid. They settled. (All but one, obviously.)
Now I just want to watch the Browns. I’ll root for the Browns. If Watson suits up I’ll root for the Browns. When Watson retires I’ll root for the Browns.
I have no control over the roster. Yet I root for the Browns.
The team will sign, draft, cut, resign, etc players over the course of my life. Never once asking my opinion. Yet I’ll root for the Browns.

I want the team to win… because I root for the Browns.

I’ll go to work M-F and do a job I honestly wish I no longer had to do. Then spend my weekends creating art. In the fall and winter I’ll look forward to Sunday’s because of the Browns. Then Monday will come… rinse and repeat until they put me in a box in the ground. Likely before Watson goes in his. Either way life will go on. Without me. Without Watson. Likely one day in the distant future it’ll go on without the NFL and the Browns at all.

Until I’m in my box…
Go Browns.


If you see that as me not giving a crap about Watson’s victims. You’re wrong. I have no control over him, the team, the courts, the women… none of it.

I’m a Browns fan. I’m not going to let one player ruin it. Art Modell tried to ruin it by taking the team from me/us… and failed. Watson doesn’t stand a chance compared to what Art did.


Go Browns.

What if it were your daughter or sister?
If it were my daughter/sister I’d ask her why she went back to massage him over and over after he did what he did. I’d tell her to be smart with the money she got from him in the settlement. I’d not be happy Watson was signed by the Browns… much as I am now.
Beyond that, it’s hard for me to say.
I’d likely remain a Browns fan because it’s in my blood.

Ultimately it’s not m sister/daughter. I do recognize it’s someone’s, but it’s not mine. So I have no idea how I’d truly react.

So here we are. I’m a Browns fan.
I’ll continue to be Browns fan.
Originally Posted by FrankZ
You continue to spin it, will continue to spin it, and you will use it, not because you give one whit about any women he had contact with, but because you get to troll fans of a team you are not a fan of.

This is yet another lie. But I get it. Much like many others you value a winning QB over abused women and have decided to support that so what else can you say?
You do realize that many of his victims never "went back" to give him another massage, right? It does help make it more palatable to put all of his victims into a nice, neat, negative box in your mind I suppose.
I understand why ppl are acting how they are, the thing is, we are reacting to what we think,and not to what happened. we were not there. but where there is smoke there is fire. I hate this!
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Originally Posted by FrankZ
You continue to spin it, will continue to spin it, and you will use it, not because you give one whit about any women he had contact with, but because you get to troll fans of a team you are not a fan of.

This is yet another lie. But I get it. Much like many others you value a winning QB over abused women and have decided to support that so what else can you say?

Again you try to control the message with spin and loaded language.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
You do realize that many of his victims never "went back" to give him another massage, right? It does help make it more palatable to put all of his victims into a nice, neat, negative box in your mind I suppose.


I hear you.
I’m still a Browns fan.
Not sorry.

Like I said, I’ll be a Browns fan until I die. Which hopefully will be well after Watson’s time here has ended.

Sorry Pit but you won’t be able to guilt me out of being a Browns fan.
Not trying to guilt you. Just hoping you will stop acting like these women had something to do with it happening to them or that they didn't seem to mind at the time by saying something like this.....

Quote
If it were my daughter/sister I’d ask her why she went back to massage him over and over after he did what he did.

Because while that did happen in some cases, not nearly all of them.

And in regards to this....

Quote
I’d likely remain a Browns fan because it’s in my blood.

It seems as though we have a total disconnect here. Even if someone was my actual blood, not some conceived notion in my head that they were, I would be no less be appalled at their actions and not wish to be a supporter of theirs any longer. But to each their own.
Originally Posted by FrankZ
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Originally Posted by FrankZ
You continue to spin it, will continue to spin it, and you will use it, not because you give one whit about any women he had contact with, but because you get to troll fans of a team you are not a fan of.

This is yet another lie. But I get it. Much like many others you value a winning QB over abused women and have decided to support that so what else can you say?

Again you try to control the message with spin and loaded language.

I'm sorry you can't man up to the things you post. I stand by these women and value them over a football player. You obviously don't. Stop trying to backtrack now.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Not trying to guilt you. Just hoping you will stop acting like these women had something to do with it happening to them or that they didn't seem to mind at the time by saying something like this.....

Quote
If it were my daughter/sister I’d ask her why she went back to massage him over and over after he did what he did.

Because while that did happen in some cases, not nearly all of them.

And in regards to this....

Quote
I’d likely remain a Browns fan because it’s in my blood.

It seems as though we have a total disconnect here. Even if someone was my actual blood, not some conceived notion in my head that they were, I would be no less be appalled at their actions and not wish to be a supporter of theirs any longer. But to each their own.


What part of this do you not comprehend… I’m a Browns fan.
Did I say I’m a Watson fan? Nope.
If you’re not a Browns fan, move along. No reason to post on a Browns board. But you know this and choose to try to guilt those of us that remain Browns fans. Won’t work on me buddy. Next.
Get ready for the "I'm not a fan but I support the team" rhetoric.
How many times do you need this explained to you? But I'll do it again.....

Do you think anyone who roots for a team is a fan? Do you think anyone who wants a team to win is a fan? You see the very word fan originates from the word fanatic. To be a fanatic is an entirely different level of support than simply rooting for a team. In years past, for over 5 decades in fact, I absorbed everything I could about the Browns. There was a deep passion about this team. It isn't the same anymore. I doubt it ever will be.

Now if you can't comprehend that, that's a you problem. But it seems you're not alone. And there is no explaining how you can claim to be a Browns fan but not be a fan of the face of the franchise. If you are perceiving some form of guilt from what I'm posting, you have questions of your own you need to answer.
Originally Posted by jfanent
Get ready for the "I'm not a fan but I support the team" rhetoric.

Get ready for you acting like you can't possibly comprehend such an idea even though it's easy to understand.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Originally Posted by FrankZ
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Originally Posted by FrankZ
You continue to spin it, will continue to spin it, and you will use it, not because you give one whit about any women he had contact with, but because you get to troll fans of a team you are not a fan of.

This is yet another lie. But I get it. Much like many others you value a winning QB over abused women and have decided to support that so what else can you say?

Again you try to control the message with spin and loaded language.

I'm sorry you can't man up to the things you post. I stand by these women and value them over a football player. You obviously don't. Stop trying to backtrack now.
MOre spin, I haven't backtracked anything.

I've been pretty clear you spin to try and control a narrative. You are here to fight and troll actual fans.

Where was I not abundantly clear?

Let me be more clear, you spin to control a narrative. You are here to troll and fight.

No backtracking. If I repeat it a third time will it help you understand?
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Originally Posted by jfanent
Get ready for the "I'm not a fan but I support the team" rhetoric.

Get ready for you acting like you can't possibly comprehend such an idea even though it's easy to understand.

Get ready for more you think insulting people actually makes you right about something.
Awe, you seem to have your little panties in a wad. Maybe you can get someone to help you with that. I'm not going anywhere and will report things that continue to come out about watson. Neither you nor anyone elses temper tantrums will prevent that.

You address me about a serious issue Haslam brought upon this team and that watson committed. It seems you have a misplaced blame issue. Speaking of insults, do you even read your own posts?
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Awe, you seem to have your little panties in a wad. Maybe you can get someone to help you with that. I'm not going anywhere and will report things that continue to come out about watson. Neither you nor anyone elses temper tantrums will prevent that.

You address me about a serious issue Haslam brought upon this team and that watson committed. It seems you have a misplaced blame issue. Speaking of insults, do you even read your own posts?

Again with the attempted insults.

Are you trying to imply that I wear panites and are effemenate and that means I can't handle myself? Don't call yourself pro woman then use the idea of being woman like as an insult. Pathetic.

You are here to fight. Enjoy your misery.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
How many times do you need this explained to you? But I'll do it again.....

Do you think anyone who roots for a team is a fan? Do you think anyone who wants a team to win is a fan? You see the very word fan originates from the word fanatic. To be a fanatic is an entirely different level of support than simply rooting for a team. In years past, for over 5 decades in fact, I absorbed everything I could about the Browns. There was a deep passion about this team. It isn't the same anymore. I doubt it ever will be.

Now if you can't comprehend that, that's a you problem. But it seems you're not alone. And there is no explaining how you can claim to be a Browns fan but not be a fan of the face of the franchise. If you are perceiving some form of guilt from what I'm posting, you have questions of your own you need to answer.


I like you Pit… but on this… blah blah blah.
Go BROWNS.
More whining. Obviously you don't even hear yourself. For someone who runs an "official" discord chat you aren't very good at this.
So a nothing burger. Got it.
No not nothing… I said, go Browns!!
That’s something.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
More whining. Obviously you don't even hear yourself. For someone who runs an "official" discord chat you aren't very good at this.

No no, don't try to backtrack.

You use women as an insult, own it.

You aren't the champion of women, you are a troll that wants to fight.

Don't deflect, don't change the argument. Own that you used women as an insult.
Yet you have volunteered to be a pugilist while pointing fingers at the other combatant. Unless you're a woman you have no point but what's new? Maybe you actually wear panties and that's why you're so upset. While you think you're a pugilist in this fight you are doing nothing but shadow boxing.
Spi n all you wish, but you used women as an insult. Your brand of misogyny is based on believing you aren't one.

You've been using this whole thing to troll, you've admitted to noy trying to change minds.
More of your lies and spin. I have permitted you to make this a distraction by taking the focus off of watson, but no more. Support the sexual predator all you like and try to take the focus away from that. I will continue to post articles and news about watson as it becomes available. Good luck getting your panties out of that twist.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
More of your lies and spin. I have permitted you to make this a distraction by taking the focus off of watson, but no more. Support the sexual predator all you like and try to take the focus away from that. I will continue to post articles and news about watson as it becomes available. Good luck getting your panties out of that twist.

Deflection.

You used the idea of women as an insult. Own it or don't but it is obvious.

Spin it so you can rationalize it, but you used the idea of women as an insult.

You have used the "suffering" of the women in this case to troll with. You don't really care about them, you want everyone else to be in the same misery as you.

My point is proven, you'll get your "last word" but it doesn't matter, you are a mysonginst that thinks women (in general) need him to fight their battles and you use them for insults.
You have "permitted"??????

And as far as 'support', I see 95% supporting the TEAM, of which you are not a fan of.
Originally Posted by archbolddawg
You have "permitted"??????

And as far as 'support', I see 95% supporting the TEAM, of which you are not a fan of.

The arrogance really knows no bounds.
Yes, permitted. When I respond to him it continues. So yes, permitted. And now his privileges have been revoked. Pay attention. I'm surprised you waited so long to pile on. But I knew I could count on you to be a follower at some point. You never disappoint.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Yes, permitted. When I respond to him it continues. So yes, permitted. And now his privileges have been revoked. Pay attention. I'm surprised you waited so long to pile on. But I knew I could count on you to be a follower at some point. You never disappoint.


"give authorization or consent to (someone) to do something."

You don't permit anything. What you do is spin and gaslight. Permit? You've lost reality in your arrogance.
rofl
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Yes, permitted. When I respond to him it continues. So yes, permitted. And now his privileges have been revoked. Pay attention. I'm surprised you waited so long to pile on. But I knew I could count on you to be a follower at some point. You never disappoint.


Here's my take on things here. You stated you couldn't be a fan of the Browns with DW on the team. You tried playing some word game with 'fan' and 'fanatic' - numerous times. You've said you don't care if others are fans of the BROWNS, yet you attack people that ARE, calling them supporters of terrible people and insinuating and even saying they don't care about the victims.

You have tried to say that a 'fanatic' and 'fan' buys Browns gear, and you used to, but now you don't, due to DW. And, you think that makes you different - like some champion of women's rights or something.

I'll say this also: If you could quit bashing BROWNS fans, it would be appreciated by all of us.

If vers could quit bashing Baker in almost every post, it would be appreciated also.

WE, are BROWNS fans - maybe not you - but WE are.

Baker isn't here anymore.

DW isn't here now. He got an 11 game suspension, a $5 million fine, and has to go to rehab/treatment. What more do you want? Don't attack me. Answer the question: What would make you shut up about DW, and the FANS of the BROWNS? I have a feeling, nothing would, but I'll 'permit' you to reply.
I just post articles. Then look at the responses. I didn't abuse these women. I report news articles about it. So when people turn their focus on me I will respond in kind. I'm sorry that some people can't seem to comprehend that being a fanatic requires a lot of passion that I simply no longer can find. It's a very simple concept. I'm not the only poster on this board who has expressed they have lost some of their passion for the team over this. Your only issue seems to be the verbiage I have used to describe that. Nobody is forcing anyone to read or respond to these articles that I've posted. Nobody is forcing them to come after me for posting them. But I most certainly will respond in kind. Maybe it's time you address those coming after me rather than addressing the articles? Nah, we can't have that now can we?

What it would take? A number of things. First DW would have to fulfill his obligations to conform with getting help with "sexual therapy". As of now we don't even know if that's happening. All that has been said is that he is getting therapy to make himself a better person. A very vague description that dances around the issue. He would have to apologize to the women. Which is actually a big sticking point in the final lawsuit pending. The victim is demanding an apology and he refuses to give one. An actual show of remorse. I've seen nothing to indicate that.

You see, giving someone a second chance is one thing. But they have to earn that. Thus far there has been zero to show he is trying to earn a second chance. And yes, I believe that if you continue to support what's going on, that's a you problem. That's not going to change.
As anyone interviewed the women recently that got free money
From the settlements ? I'm wondering If they are still "traumatized"
Or if they left the massage industry altogether
Which one of the 23 victims are you referring to? It seems you are one of those who think a lifetime judge got it wrong and 24 women were lying. You think only watson is the beacon of truth. You know the guy that signed a contract extension only to demand being traded two months later. I hope nobody ever depends on you to do character evaluations.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Which one of the 23 victims are you referring to? It seems you are one of those who think a lifetime judge got it wrong and 24 women were lying. You think only watson is the beacon of truth. You know the guy that signed a contract extension only to demand being traded two months later. I hope nobody ever depends on you to do character evaluations.

You continue to spin and gaslight.

Robinson had nothing to do with the settlements of the 23 women. She only heard cases from 4, that's all the NFL could squeeze enough out of.

You do know that Robinsons' areas of expertise are not criminal nor employment issues right?

No one here has said Watson is a "bastion of truth", that is also spin.

Watson's personnel in Houston have a lot of clouds around them, but you will believe the worst even though there have clearly been reasons sighted for his unhappiness with the organization. But that's what spin does I suppose.

I get it, Vers doesn't like Baker. Watson replaces Baker. You can't let him alone (you do chase him all over this place) so therefore there is no way you can let go of anything to do with Watson and you have to spin to keep the narrative alive.

Spin spin spin. It's all you have, but you will continue to use it.
JMHO- FACTS

1. No one but the women and DW know what happened during " the sexual assaults"- as defined by a female judge. There is NO video, it is purely a she said/he said.....BOTH parties should be held to WHO, WHAT, WHERE, WHEN, WHY, and HOW.
2. DW hasn't been charged with ANYTHING- how the judge can state sexual assault occurred is beyond me.
3. The traumatised masseuses- some had consensual sex with DW, some got paid off early, some/ one wants an apology AND money in civil court. ALL of these ladies could have walked out of the room/ closet/ suite- most or all stayed for the MONEY.
4. This is one of the everywhere in the world cases- MONEY wanted by those who don't have enough, those who have to much money in the eyes of the masseuses, and the LAWYERS- who laugh all the way to the bank on both sides.
5. MONEY- Browns bought a better QB, paying him well, when he plays he brings value and Browns are worth more....easy decision.

Browns fans want a winner- Jim Brown, best runner ever, check out his past, he was no saint when DW's age. PitDAWG is only saint.
Your choice is to dismiss a judge with a lifetime of experience reading people who went over all of the evidence. She found him to be a liar and a predator.. Your choice is to dismiss the word of 24 women. My choice is not to. I have one thread in tailgate discussing this. If you don't wish to discuss it you can easily avoid it. I'm not trashing Pure Football by inserting it in every thread. You're not very good at this.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Your choice is to dismiss a judge with a lifetime of experience reading people who went over all of the evidence. She found him to be a liar and a predator.. Your choice is to dismiss the word of 24 women. My choice is not to. I have one thread in tailgate discussing this. If you don't wish to discuss it you can easily avoid it. I'm not trashing Pure Football by inserting it in every thread. You're not very good at this.

Your choice is to dismiss what the jude "with a life time of experience" actually said in the report. Couple that with the idea you keep spinning this as something more than and employment dispute. Let me know when Watson needs to register as a sex offender, you know, like what happens after committing sexual assault. I am also sure you are aware than experience does not make on infallible.

Your choice is to spin 24 women's complaints into the decision by your "life time experience" judge who only used 4 cases, not 24. Quit trying to conflate the two ideas.

You try to spin a denial of following Vers around. It isn't just about this particular topic, but it is obvious that he doesn't like Baker, you don't like him and the Watson discussion is a proxy for that. And you are no longer trashing pure football with it, that does not mean you did not in the past (which of course amounts to you trying to spin this into you don't do that).

And, true to form, you try an insult to deflect.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
You didn't have to say "go watson" when you say go browns. He's not only a brown, he's the face of the franchise.
No he's not. I've never seen a Browns advertisement blasting the face of Watson on my TV. It's almost always Chubb or Myles.. never see Watson... might someday but for now, he's not the face of the franchise.
The QB is the face of your franchise, period.
Show me where I'm not showing what the judge said. She flat out called him a liar and that he acted in a predatory manner in his sexual misconduct.

Quote
Mr. Watson’s conduct also has been scrutinized on a national level, as Mr. Watson’s
alleged conduct has been a matter of public record and discourse over an extended period of
time. Regardless of my findings, it is apparent that Mr. Watson acted with a reckless disregard
for the consequences of his actions by exposing himself (and the NFL) to such public scrutiny
and speculation. Mr. Watson’s predatory conduct cast “a negative light on the League and its
players,”39 sufficient proof that he violated this provision of the Policy.

Quote
Judge Robinson rejected Deshaun Watson's categorial denials of wrongdoing, along with his denial that he ever developed an erection during a massage. In the most tactful way possible, she concluded that he lied while testifying about the most important aspects of the case.

Your desire to mix the two between watson and baker are laughable. And in case you don't understand how message boards work most people actually read the entire threads. That means you see everyone's posts. I no longer talk about watson's sexual conduct in Pure Football. I do however find it laughable you can't see Vers inherent obsession that keeps baker's name being brought up in thread after thread in pure football. So yeah, I'm going to point that out.

You must have missed how in the refs forum where vers was whining about the watson threads in pure football the refs said it was well before the season started and they would probably move them as the season got closer here to the Tailgate Lot. As such I began this thread as the season got close where they said they wanted it to be posted.

Once again, you;re really not very good at this.
More spin.


Your second quote is someone's interpretation of what she said. Someone you agree with, confirmation bias much?


Robinson did not, in fact, call him a liar. Her findings were on on scale of probable, not indisputable fact.

Continuing to spin this does not mean he was found to have done anything more than was in the report, which is a violation of his terms of employment.

Once again, just because you spin things doesn't mean I don't see the bigger picture and understand where it all comes from.

And again you think an insult is a debate point. You aren't getting anything right today.
You can watch the Browns. Just don’t say “ Go Browns”… or ‘root’ for them… because if you root for, or say anything that might be considered an expression of joy during a game, you’re then rooting for a predator.
But it’s okay to just watch still with no emotion… at least I think those are the ‘Pit’ rules.

Do I have that right?
Thus far he isn't playing and Frank Z droning on and making excuses for watson is boring. For someone accusing others of judging you, you seem to have no problem doing it to someone else. Hypocritical much?
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Thus far he isn't playing and Frank Z droning on and making excuses for watson is boring. For someone accusing others of judging you, you seem to have no problem doing it to someone else. Hypocritical much?

Can't keep my name outta your mouth?
You entered into this thing and have been an active participant. Don't try playing the vitrim card now.
You've used that resort enough one would think you think it is amic drop moment. But i put it in purple, yet you seem oblivious to that.

I entered into this to point out your constant spin, I didn't lead you into that. You are the one that can't let it go, don't blame anyone else.
Quote
You've used that resort enough one would think you think it is amic drop moment.

Do you mean like your, "You're only here to fight" line?

Where's a good yawn emoji when you need one?

rolleyes

Not a yawn but it works fine for the occasion.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Quote
You've used that resort enough one would think you think it is amic drop moment.

Do you mean like your, "You're only here to fight" line?

Where's a good yawn emoji when you need one?

rolleyes

Not a yawn but it works fine for the occasion.

But you are here to fight.

Just because you spin it elsewise doesn't mean you aren't.
I'm here to post updates on watson. Pay attention.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
I'm here to post updates on watson. Pay attention.

You are here to fight.

It's been a while since you actually posted an update. See if you can try to do so without spin.
I replied to people's responses. Just like I'm doing with you. We weren't fighting until you came here and started one. People can read and know which one of us started the exchange between the two of us. Like I said, you're really not very good at this.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
I replied to people's responses. Just like I'm doing with you. We weren't fighting until you came here and started one. People can read and know which one of us started the exchange between the two of us. Like I said, you're really not very good at this.

I pointed out your spin with this.

You insult.

You seem to think insults are "debate" or "discussion". You are wrong.
There is no spin. When you say you believe the victims testimony and don't believe watson's testimony, you are saying he's a liar. You wish to dance around that with semantics. The only spin here is your own. Obviously you don't actually know what an insult is either.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
There is no spin. When you say you believe the victims testimony and don't believe watson's testimony, you are saying he's a liar. You wish to dance around that with semantics. The only spin here is your own. Obviously you don't actually know what an insult is either.

I have point by point shown what your spin is. You do like you always do, you read only the words posted that you wish to read.

I know what insults are, you fling them like they are free candy. Telling me I don't know what something as simple as insult is, is in fact, insulting.

You've not once been able to prove me wrong on your spin, your ipse dixit in regards to it is not proof.

As a reminder, you said people here said "You think only watson is the beacon of truth". No one said it, you made that up. Me saying it is spin is a nice way of saying you outright lied. The is merely a single example, there are more. You can reread what I have wrote (you won't) to see what you spun (you won't).

You don't post news, you post opinion pieces that agree with your assertions, then you tell us what they say (your spin).

Actually I am really good at pointing our your spin and hypocrisy. Just because you don't like it, doesn't change anything.
Try again. You're weak display deserves no more of a response than this.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Try again. You're weak display deserves no more of a response than this.

In other words I am right and you can't come up with proof to invalidate anything I have said.
...You should report Pit for name calling since he will claim that he knows the difference between your and you're.
Originally Posted by FrankZ
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Try again. You're weak display deserves no more of a response than this.

In other words I am right and you can't come up with proof to invalidate anything I have said.

In other words if I wanted to teach children I would be teaching in a classroom and getting paid for it.
Yeah, one error in an entire thread. You got me.

rofl

Playing grammar police is weak.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Originally Posted by FrankZ
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Try again. You're weak display deserves no more of a response than this.

In other words I am right and you can't come up with proof to invalidate anything I have said.

In other words if I wanted to teach children I would be teaching in a classroom and getting paid for it.

And if a frog had wings....

But of course another deflection.
Zzzzzzzz..... You're a snooze fest.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Zzzzzzzz..... You're a snooze fest.

Petty insults.

But you keep coming back, I wonder what that might say about you?
Yet you keep coming back while wondering what that says about me? lmao

Like I said many times before. You're not very good at this.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Yet you keep coming back while wondering what that says about me? lmao

Like I said many times before. You're not very good at this.

Yep, more petty insults. Try an actual rebuttal of the points I made.

Given you won't, I'll let you last word this one until you do your spin job again.
They're not worthy of a response but I'll throw you a bone.

If you do not believe the women or the judge you must feel that watson is the only beacon of truth. It's so simple nobody should have to explain it.

Zzzzzz....

At least it's become quite obvious why you have that Z at the end of your screen name.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
They're not worthy of a response but I'll throw you a bone.

If you do not believe the women or the judge you must feel that watson is the only beacon of truth. It's so simple nobody should have to explain it.

Zzzzzz....

That, of course, is you making up what other people (such as me) have actually said so you can create spin.

That's not how debate actually works. If you'd quit with the petty insults and childish quips you might realize you continue to create what other people say so you can argue.

You are here to fight. Own it.
Zzzzzzz....
I'm starting to wonder if Pit has an alter-ego he calls Watson, and he has trouble differentiating between himself and the QB. Self-loathing/multiple personalities would explain a lot.
Yet another armchair, wannabe psychiatrist that has no clue what he's talking about wishes to enter into the fray. I see nothing to address the thread just like others that wish to truth about watson would just disappear and trying to force others to stay quiet about it. It's not going to work.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Originally Posted by FrankZ
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Try again. You're weak display deserves no more of a response than this.

In other words I am right and you can't come up with proof to invalidate anything I have said.

In other words if I wanted to teach children I would be teaching in a classroom and getting paid for it.

HMMM why wouldn't youteach your kids about forgiveness?
I taught her that in order to gain forgiveness you must first admit what you did, apologize and earn forgiveness through your actions. I also taught them that if you forgive others who have not shown they can do those things you are not holding them accountable.

What did you teach your children?
Originally Posted by FrankZ
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
I replied to people's responses. Just like I'm doing with you. We weren't fighting until you came here and started one. People can read and know which one of us started the exchange between the two of us. Like I said, you're really not very good at this.

I pointed out your spin with this.

You insult.

You seem to think insults are "debate" or "discussion". You are wrong.

He thinks being insulting is an asset. Something to brag about.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
I taught her that in order to gain forgiveness you must first admit what you did, apologize and earn forgiveness through your actions. I also taught them that if you forgive others who have not shown they can do those things you are not holding them accountable.

What did you teach your children?

I taught my kids to say NO when they mean No. I taught them also to not apoligize when they are right. I taught them that no matter what I have their back 110 percent. Unlike todays parents that teach them that the deserve everything wonderful.
Originally Posted by archbolddawg
Originally Posted by FrankZ
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
I replied to people's responses. Just like I'm doing with you. We weren't fighting until you came here and started one. People can read and know which one of us started the exchange between the two of us. Like I said, you're really not very good at this.

I pointed out your spin with this.

You insult.

You seem to think insults are "debate" or "discussion". You are wrong.

He thinks being insulting is an asset. Something to brag about.

You are, of course correct. It is a sad state of affairs.
Why am I not surprised you would be pulling up the rear. A position you seem to have become quite comfortable with. The stragglers always seem to be looking for scraps.
And as we've seen, when people think they deserve everything wonderful they have no problem trying to take advantage of those who are lower on the social scale to get what they want. Which is a part of the very subject the thread is supposedly about.
Says the one throwing the insults. In this case arch is right. But only because I'm considering the source of the insults. Those with low moral fiber are the ones I expect to be protesting so much and I'm proud to take those people on in defense of watson's victims. They have no shame.
Texans finally offer trade-in for Deshaun Watson jerseys but you still have to pay

The Houston Texans apparently needed seven months to decide that, sure, you can trade in your Deshaun Watson jerseys. For a discount on a new jersey, anyway.

The Texans didn't specifically say Monday that you can trade in Watson jerseys, but the use of Watson's old No. 4 jersey in the tweet and the 44 percent off makes it obvious what the aim is. Watson was accused by numerous women of sexual misconduct when he was a member of the Texans and traded to the Cleveland Browns in March. Watson was suspended 11 games by the NFL. He was allowed back in the Browns facility on Monday.

The Texans announced on Monday decided that it's time to let you trade in those Watson jerseys, complete with a tweet that indicates all fans should be grateful to owner Cal McNair for his generosity on that discount. Probably not the flex they think it is.

It's a decent gesture, though it took way too long — how many of those Watson jerseys ended up in the trash by now? — and the Texans are still making some money on the 56 percent purchase of those new jerseys.

The trade in doesn't mention Watson, but says "Select NFL licensed player jerseys eligible for exchange include Texans players originally acquired during the 2017–2021 seasons who are no longer on the Texans' roster." The team probably doesn't expect a rush of D'Onta Foreman jersey returns (though, hey, might as well if you have one). You can exchange the jerseys at the Texans team store at NRG Stadium this week.

It's not the first time a team has had a jersey exchange for a player who has gotten in trouble off the field. For example in 2013 the New England Patriots offered a free jersey exchange for anyone who had an Aaron Hernandez No. 81 jersey.

Hey, it's better than nothing. Finally fans can exchange those Watson jerseys. If they still have them.

https://sports.yahoo.com/texans-fin...but-you-still-have-to-pay-150842257.html
j/c...

Oh boy. Here we go...
Gift that keeps on giving...
From a strictly on-field standpoint, looks like the new suit will not impact his current status...

What a creep.
That's cool.

I hadn't given it much thought, but that makes sense.
Whenever money is involved, the lizards will continue to creep out from under rocks.
That's the face of the franchise we have there. One more this week - another next week - this is going to blow up again. Here's an interesting head scratcher, why hasn't the FBI been involved since these alleged assaults have taken place in multiple states and venues? According to the timeline, the first assault occurred in Texas March 30th, 2020. The women who have filed complaints stretch from that date until March 5, 2021, in Sandy Springs, GA 11-days before the first lawsuit was filed. In addition to the 22 assaults that occurred in TX, an additional assault occurred in Arizona in June 2020, one in Beverly Hills, CA on July 15th, 2020, and of course the one in Sandy Spring, GA in March 2021. The latest lawsuit alleges the assault occurred in TX in December 2020. These all occurred in a 13-month period according to the timeline. It would be hard to believe that Watson just magically shut down his activities in March 2021 after a year of abusing women. I would suspect that as this goes on, the timeline will start to expand especially considering Watson wasn't playing football in 2021.

Watson may have sold the Browns on his timeline of indiscretions, but I find it highly unlikely that Watson stopped what he was doing in that pervious 13-month period in the 11-months before the Browns signed him. Especially when you take into account that he still claims he has done nothing wrong. At a bare minimum, he's guilty of solicitation because in the latest suit the woman confirms that she was paid above and beyond what her normal fee is set at. Wait, wait - that was a tip, LMAO!
Originally Posted by Ballpeen
Whenever money is involved, the lizards will continue to creep out from under rocks.

It's a nice coincidence that this news came out on the same day as the Snyder news.
Good point rish
Is anyone surprised?
Originally Posted by Rishuz
Originally Posted by Ballpeen
Whenever money is involved, the lizards will continue to creep out from under rocks.

It's a nice coincidence that this news came out on the same day as the Snyder news.

It does seem a little strange, but I don't think the plaintiff has been standing outside the courthouse for weeks waiting on some Snyder news before she files.
j/c...

Originally Posted by Milk Man
j/c...







Is it just me, or do these two statements sound vastly different?
I wonder if this latest one comes from the group that Buzbee declined as clients.
Hmmmm.... didn't even think of that. I wonder if someone will ask him. Although he would probably decline comment.
Originally Posted by Ballpeen
Whenever money is involved, the lizards will continue to creep out from under rocks.

Yep that must be it. Poor watson.
LOL...He may never play a down again.

I feel horrible for the women.
Originally Posted by SuperBrown
LOL...He may never play a down again.

I feel horrible for the women.

As has been mentioned, with how the punishment was worded, this may have no impact on things at all. Either way, however, it makes it clear that despite most of the cases having been settled, this just isn't going to go away.
At first, I thought he did it again here... I hope he's doing what he's been told to do, for the sake of all massage therapists everywhere he may go.
Jim Brown and Deshaun Watson are basically the same person.

https://deadspin.com/jim-brown-did-great-things-he-also-beat-woman-1784269329
According to the NFL watson can receive additional punishment depending on the outcome of impending and or future investigation(s) to past allegations........

NFL Releases Statement Addressing Latest Deshaun Watson Lawsuit

Editors’ note: This story contains accounts of sexual assault. If you or someone you know is a survivor of sexual assault, contact the National Sexual Assault Hotline at 1-800-656-4673 or at https://www.rainn.org.

The NFL released a statement Friday, saying that it was aware of a new lawsuit filed against Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson in Texas on Thursday, but that Watson’s status with the league remains unaffected at this time.

“Watson’s status remains unchanged,” NFL spokesperson Brian McCarthy said in a statement. “We will monitor developments in the newly filed litigation; and any conduct that warrants further investigation or possible additional sanctions would be addressed within the Personal Conduct Policy.”

The lawsuit, filed by plaintiff Jane Doe in Harris County, comes less than two months after the NFL and NFLPA agreed to suspend Watson for 11 games and fine him $5 million for reported sexual misconduct.

The latest filing details an encounter from December 2020 between Watson and Jane Doe after the quarterback contacted the woman for a message via direct message on Instagram. During the massage, the filing reads that “Watson removed his towel and offered to let her ‘get on top.’ Plaintiff refused to have sex with Watson, however, he was able to pressure her into oral sex with the Defendant.” He then allegedly paid her $300 when her hourly massage rate was normally $115.

This is the first lawsuit to be filed against the quarterback from a different law firm than the other two dozen cases attorney Tony Buzbee filed from March 2021 to June of this year. The accounts in those cases range from Watson refusing to cover his genitals to the quarterback “touching [a plaintiff] with his penis and trying to force her to perform oral sex on him.”

One case was dropped due to privacy concerns in April 2021. Watson agreed to settle 20 of the 24 remaining active lawsuits in late June ’22, and later, he reportedly agreed to settle three of the remaining four civil suits filed against him ahead of independent arbitrator Sue L. Robinson’s initial disciplinary decision.

Watson returned Monday to the Browns’ facility for the first time since his ban began Aug. 30. He’s ineligible to practice with the team until Nov. 14 and is expected to return from his suspension Dec. 4 against the Texans.

Watson has stood by his innocence and denied the previous allegations against him.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/10/14/d...dLTVEZTFmqjIRuehnI4-u7uvNHS6ApDXcF-0h79k
Originally Posted by OldColdDawg
At first, I thought he did it again here... I hope he's doing what he's been told to do, for the sake of all massage therapists everywhere he may go.

I hope he is doing what he's been told to do because I'm freaking sick and tired of hearing about this crap. If this was the sort of garbage I wanted to follow, I'd switch this site over to being a Days of Our Lives fansite.
You don't even watch our games because we got rid of Baker. Your opinions don't matter.
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
You don't even watch our games because we got rid of Baker. Your opinions don't matter.
So, other's opinions don't matter. Neat.
Originally Posted by superbowldogg
Jim Brown and Deshaun Watson are basically the same person.

https://deadspin.com/jim-brown-did-great-things-he-also-beat-woman-1784269329

Different eras but both poster boys for the Browns. Our GM certainly knows the importance of keeping good traditions.
Originally Posted by PrplPplEater
Originally Posted by OldColdDawg
At first, I thought he did it again here... I hope he's doing what he's been told to do, for the sake of all massage therapists everywhere he may go.

I hope he is doing what he's been told to do because I'm freaking sick and tired of hearing about this crap. If this was the sort of garbage I wanted to follow, I'd switch this site over to being a Days of Our Lives fansite.

JERRY, JERRY, JERRY
It was cocktail hour. Look at the time stamp. 10:42 P.M. Drunk posting again.
j/c:

Judge rules the latest plaintiff to accuse Cleveland Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson of pressuring her into a sexual act has 24 hours to amend her petition to include her name or drop the lawsuit

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/s...atson-accuser-24-hours-provide-name.html
Make her reveal her name so everybody knows. That's a crock, they could keep her name confidential. Watson is a predator.
Isn't it a basic fundamental right to know your accuser?
GOOD!
Originally Posted by FATE
Isn't it a basic fundamental right to know your accuser?


Yes. But in sexual assault cases, they should keep the name off the public filings IMO. They can 'know' or face the accuser in court.
Tend to agree that there needs to be a way for an accuser to maintain anonymity. But the accused definitely deserves the right to know their accuser before they set foot in court.
Nice pit best post of the year
j/c...

Deshaun Watson attorney fires back at new lawsuit, says it may be 'unrequited love'
Brent Schrotenboer
USA TODAY
Published 7:41pm ET Oct 25th, 2022

The attorney for Cleveland Browns quarterback Deshaun Watson has fired back at the latest lawsuit against his client by filing several exhibits in court that appear to undermine the lawsuit’s claims, including that Watson pressured the plaintiff into oral sex at a hotel in Houston in December 2020.

Rusty Hardin, the attorney, also is asking the court in Harris County, Texas, for monetary sanctions against the attorneys who filed it to punish them for filing this “sham lawsuit,” as he describes it. The suit was the 26th overall by a woman who has accused Watson of sexual misconduct during massage sessions.

Of those 26 lawsuits, 23 were settled out of court this year and one was dropped shortly after being filed in March 2021. Only two remain, including this new one that was filed Oct. 13, the only lawsuit to come after Watson was given an 11-game suspension by the NFL stemming from these allegations.

Hardin already has mounted an aggressive defense against it. In one filing, his law firm showed screen shots of text messages from the woman to Watson that came after she claimed he pressured her into oral sex during the massage session at the Houstonian Hotel.

“The documents (the woman) provided reflect that for nearly a year after their massage session together, (the woman) sent more than 35 messages to Mr. Watson—none of which were answered by Mr. Watson,” Hardin states.

Some of the text messages show the woman asking to meet him again at the same hotel. Others appear to be sexually suggestive.

“I have the best head in all of Houston,” she wrote in September 2021, according to the filings.

“Let me know when your ready to make big deposits,” another text stated.

Hardin said the woman’s lawsuit was filed in bad faith.

“This obviously does not sound like a person who was pressured into performing oral sex,” said the document he filed Monday evening.

Hardin already won a court order forcing the woman to reveal her name in court documents after initially filing it under the pseudonym Jane Doe. USA TODAY's policy is not to reveal the names of alleged sexual assault victims unless they decide to speak about it publicly.

“This evidence undeniably establishes that while this may be a case of unrequited love, under no stretch of the imagination is this a case of assault,” Hardin stated. “Had (the woman’s law firm) performed even the most cursory investigation, it would have confirmed that fact.”

An attorney for the plaintiff at Universal Law Group in Houston didn’t immediately return a message seeking comment.

Hardin’s filing also states that the plaintiff in the newest lawsuit appeared at his office on Nov. 4, 2021, in response to a discovery subpoena in the other litigation. That’s where the woman agreed to be interviewed by Watson’s counsel and provided text messages and direct messages to them, according to the filings.

During this conversation, the woman said, “I wasn’t scared, I wasn’t intimidated. I didn’t do anything I didn’t want to do. I didn’t do anything where I didn’t feel like it was safe,” according to an affidavit filed by a witness to the conversation.

According to the affidavit, the woman also said, “I would love to love him. Oh, my God. I would love to be in love, and to love him… I don’t want to put criminal charges on him. It wasn’t criminal. We were in there playing around and that was it.”

Watson was never arrested or charged in these cases, and he has denied any misconduct. Hardin’s filing says the Houston police also interviewed this woman and rejected them.

“Likewise, NFL investigators were fully aware of (the woman's) allegations and chose not to base their findings on any of her uncredible contentions,” Hardin’s filing states.

The incidents described in all the lawsuits allegedly came when Watson was a member of the Houston Texans. The Texans also reached confidential settlements with 30 women with claims related to Watson after being accused of enabling his behavior and failing to prevent it. The Texans traded him to the Browns in March.

This new lawsuit is the only one of the 26 not filed by the law firm of Houston attorney Tony Buzbee. After it was filed this month by another firm, the NFL said Watson's disciplinary status remained unchanged but that the league would monitor developments from it.

"Any conduct that warrants further investigation or possible additional sanctions would be addressed within the Personal Conduct Policy" of the league, spokesman Brian McCarthy said then.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...it-evidence-against-accuser/10601426002/
Yeah, I remember all the BS he and his lawyer were saying before too. The Boy Who Cried Wolf rings a bell.
ALL the accusers want justice....it isn't about the money, they were all assaulted and mentally abused....ugh, except for those who just wanted a payoff---money corrupts, lawyers/massuesses/commentators/politicians - if you got it, they ALL want some of it. It is the world.
Please make sure you sent a few dollars to every politician you support, they are only trying to do what is right.
If I had sexually assaulted politicians I'm sure there would have been a price to pay. I didn't. Therein lies the difference.
It looks like this one is one of the ones Buzzbee wouldn't touch.
That's quite possible. On the other hand the Texans paid 26 settlement claims and watson paid off I think it was 24. So it seems this may be one of the women that the Texans did settle with. I really have no details on this case with which to say one way or the other.
The article on PD article indicated that. Just an observation.
I do know that The women's lawyer, Buzzbee had a very high bar for which cases he would accept and that he turned some of them. The PD is probably right about this one.
jc:

Hunting Valley.....a charming place to live in Northeast Ohio!
Pics here:

https://homesoftherich.net/2015/11/...ish-country-mansion-in-chagrin-falls-oh/
He's not gonna try living in that shotgun shack is he?
Castle McRapey.
[Linked Image from y.yarn.co]
Rich man rewarded for predatory behavior buys mansion. Details at 11:00.
Deshaun moving in some furniture...


[Linked Image from u.cubeupload.com]
Seems appropriate for what appears to be the dining room/hall, right?

naughtydevil
DW has money because he's a great football player, not because he likes sex and massages. Don't get the constant bombardment against DW- he has paid millions, he's lost millions, he's been crucified by many over and over and over again. Kipling's six honest men- who, what, where, when, why, how- some posters can't let it go. Why beat on folks. DW is still getting massages, just not like before- he's changed or NFL wouldn't let him play.

DW made mistakes- pick up the stone and throw it if you're without sin. The 25/ 30 or 50 who sued him are NOT blameless- MONEY has been, is still a HUGE issue. DW had over 2,400 massage therapists he could have used in Houston- registered- AND the word was out about DW- he had issues. They CHOSE MONEY vs just saying no. Sort of like the failed drug problem solution- just say no. They chose to be with him- they wanted the big name and MONEY.

Wonder how many years need to be spent before folks move on.....Peace.
rofl

I love how people think you should just not mention all of this. Like it's going to go away if they yell loud enough.

It's not. He's a sexual predator yet some people think football is more important.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
rofl

I love how people think you should just not mention all of this. Like it's going to go away if they yell loud enough.

It's not. He's a sexual predator yet some people think football is more important.

Only in respect to the terms of his employement.
Originally Posted by FATE
Deshaun moving in some furniture...


[Linked Image from u.cubeupload.com]

Where's he supposed to hang the tiny towel?
Yet the Chiefs cut Kareem Hunt. I guess it all boils down to a teams priorities.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Yet the Chiefs cut Kareem Hunt. I guess it all boils down to a teams priorities.

There's video of what Watson was accused of? He was charged?

Or are you trying one of your tired straw arguments again?

The only thing was found to have done was violate his terms of employment.
I thought you were big on the ruling of judges? I guess that's a pick and choose thing for you. Once again you follow me around like a petulant child starting fights. Please remember that people can read.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
I thought you were big on the ruling of judges? I guess that's a pick and choose thing for you. Once again you follow me around like a petulant child starting fights. Please remember that people can read.


This is an honest question as I am not siding with or against Watson, but what judges ruling are we talking about?
Judge Sue Robinson.
Originally Posted by cle23
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
I thought you were big on the ruling of judges? I guess that's a pick and choose thing for you. Once again you follow me around like a petulant child starting fights. Please remember that people can read.


This is an honest question as I am not siding with or against Watson, but what judges ruling are we talking about?

He's talking about former Judge Sue Robinson who did NOT rule on a criminal or civil case in a real court of law. She made a ruling on whether or not Watson violated the NFL's Personal Conduct Policy.
And you stated plainly that you would respect her ruling. Right up to the point that you didn't. She found that he committed sexual assault. She found that he acted in a predatory manner and she also found that he acted egregiously. But now you're trying to downplay all of that by calling those things as "violations of NFL policy".
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Judge Sue Robinson.

She was not acting as a judge. She was acting as an arbitrator and she is a RETIRED judge. Don't little details get in the way of a gaslight though.

The worst that anyone has found Watson did was violate his terms of employment.

Sex offenders go on lists, can't be in certian places etc. Can you find him registered anywhere? No? Employment terms.

Can you read that?
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
And you stated plainly that you would respect her ruling. Right up to the point that you didn't. She found that he committed sexual assault. She found that he acted in a predatory manner and she also found that he acted egregiously. But now you're trying to downplay all of that by calling those things as "violations of NFL policy".

The NFl didn't respect her ruling.
Originally Posted by FrankZ
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
And you stated plainly that you would respect her ruling. Right up to the point that you didn't. She found that he committed sexual assault. She found that he acted in a predatory manner and she also found that he acted egregiously. But now you're trying to downplay all of that by calling those things as "violations of NFL policy".

The NFl didn't respect her ruling.

Just a little truth to Pit's ongoing lies and deception. I did accept Sue Robinson's decision and said so several times. She gave him a 6 game suspension. I clearly said I thought it should have been less, but I respected her decision. But make no mistake..........posters trying to say that her decision was a legal decision are lying. It was all about the Personal Conduct Policy. It was not a court of law.
Pays to be a sexual abuser I guess.
Originally Posted by jfanent
Originally Posted by FATE
Deshaun moving in some furniture...


[Linked Image from u.cubeupload.com]

Where's he supposed to hang the tiny towel?

On his tiny knob. That came out in court.
Originally Posted by FrankZ
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Judge Sue Robinson.

She was not acting as a judge. She was acting as an arbitrator and she is a RETIRED judge. Don't little details get in the way of a gaslight though.

The worst that anyone has found Watson did was violate his terms of employment.

Sex offenders go on lists, can't be in certian places etc. Can you find him registered anywhere? No? Employment terms.

Can you read that?

Not all sex offenders go on a list. DW should be on some kind of list, but I don't think he should be on that particular list. But he should have a big blinking neon sign that warns women not to offer him a massage at any price.
Quote
But he should have a big blinking neon sign that warns women not to offer him a massage at any price.


I need one of those that warns people not to pull my finger.
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Just a little truth to Pit's ongoing lies and deception. I did accept Sue Robinson's decision and said so several times. She gave him a 6 game suspension.

Her ruling was spelled out in a written statement. It included that he was a predator, acted egregiously and committed sexual assault.

Quote
I clearly said I thought it should have been less, but I respected her decision.

Than you accept it in its entirety or you don't.

Quote
But make no mistake..........posters trying to say that her decision was a legal decision are lying.

Who was it that said that?

Quote
It was all about the Personal Conduct Policy. It was not a court of law.

It was to gather findings on whether he broke the NFL conduct policy or not. And it gave the reasons as to what he did to break that policy which included sexual assault. You do realize that breaks more than the NFL conduct policy, right?
Originally Posted by FrankZ
The worst that anyone has found Watson did was violate his terms of employment.

Obviously you are trying to dismiss what her ruling said. It said he acted in a predatory manner. That he acted egregiously and committed sexual assault. You do realize those things do much more "violate the terms of his employment", correct?

But when you prioritize football over the sexual abuse of women we see posts such as yours and Vers to try and minimize such behavior and put players inexcusable behavior over what happened to those women.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Originally Posted by FrankZ
The worst that anyone has found Watson did was violate his terms of employment.

Obviously you are trying to dismiss what her ruling said. It said he acted in a predatory manner. That he acted egregiously and committed sexual assault. You do realize those things do much more "violate the terms of his employment", correct?

But when you prioritize football over the sexual abuse of women we see posts such as yours and Vers to try and minimize such behavior and put players inexcusable behavior over what happened to those women.

No I am clearly tying to put what she wrote into the context it was written with instead of the dramatic hyperbole you had been shilling.

He broke terms of employment, arbitrary terms of employment. And the highly touted "judge" you cling to wasn't listened to by the league. So much for what she wrote eh?

But you aren't a lawyer, you wouldn't understand any of it.
I know exactly what her findings were because they were written plainly. Her findings on what transpired went well beyond violations of NFL policy. And unlike the things you try and point out elsewhere on this board, her finding were actually specific to this case and this case only. Of course when someone tries to apply the decision of one case to cases that aren't related to the one being discussed I can understand their need to deflect.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
I know exactly what her findings were because they were written plainly. Her findings on what transpired went well beyond violations of NFL policy. And unlike the things you try and point out elsewhere on this board, her finding were actually specific to this case and this case only. Of course when someone tries to apply the decision of one case to cases that aren't related to the one being discussed I can understand their need to deflect.

Her finding were from the employer. He violated a employment agreement. This is easier than constitutional law and you are still (willfully) missing it to have a narrative.
Her finding was for the employer to understand the gravity or lack there of what he had done. And he did plenty. Trying to minimize sexual assault is even a level I didn't think you would stoop to. But it just goes to show that when someone decides to stalk and fight with another individual there's no depth they won't sink to.
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