this loss.......i cant.

i dont even know what to say. what a horrible L. defense finally made a play, but we missed the kick

Just here for the excuses.

Chargers tried to hand us the win. They tried to really hard.
🤮

and we see why DW will be starting the moment he can. JB, i love him, we all do, but when we need a throw, he can't make it. could've hit DPJ to give York more room to make that kick.

but York missing 2 FG's killed us. bad 4th down call on our side killed us. Defense got torched but gave us a chance at the end.

Smart. Tough. Accountable.

and woods has to go. all those yards on the ground we gave up to one of the worst rushing offenses in the league.

Another painful loss. It was ugly.

#throwawayseason

Only takeaway I can give is Winners know how to win. Losers lose. Before this week Browns were 5th in the league in total points scored and this game doesn’t do anything to hurt that. Even though the defense finally made a stop this team wasn’t built to have shootouts with Herbert. As expected they find yet another way to lose. Let’s just lose out so we can flip this script to coaches who want to win more than rely on statistics.

Stefanski gotta catch heat for the play calls and/or deciding not to take the FG.

again, York sucked today. so i get that aspect, but damn its always 1 or two crucial decisions he isnt getting right that cost us.

The DT's are smaller than most OT's they go against

The D needs big heavy athletic DT's

to stuff the front

Meet the new kicker. Same as the old kicker.

That was our game, he blew it.

No, Swish....THE worst! And yes, Woods has to go. The defense is giving up too much and putting un-needed extra pressure on the offense....

What are 3 things this Browns team will never be?

Woods scheme sucks for sure, but if you watch the individual players, where the scheme has them in the position to make the plays but they can't because they suck.. Thats all Berry. He's put together the worst front 7 in the NFL, and theres help out there but he refuses to admit mistakes. Stefanski needs to give up playcalling. He gets flustered when the other team figures something out and over corrects or abandons it all together.. he doesn't find a way to keep doing what we are good at. I get Brissett was brought in as a bridge to take care of the ball until DW got back.. well he has cost us 3 games with his "taking care of the ball" Lets see what Dobbs or Mond can do. We aren't winning another game anyways. Everyone on the defense should be available for trade, not a single one of them make plays. Ward is an absolute joke. But it all comes down to Berry, Dorsey had us right there, ready to take the next step and Berry comes in and blows it up and sets us back with his horrible FA and drafts

Defenze played better when D. Ward left late in the game, and the Brownz tightened up and held em to 3.

Before that, D. Ward waz picked on all day.

Not with any other team. Our defense doesn't complement our offense. We are not built to win shootouts, but rather low-medium scoring games which our defense seemingly cannot achieve....

I'M TIRED TIRED TIRED OF WATCHING NICK CHUBB STAND ON THE SIDLINES WHEN WEHAVE A SHOT TO WIN >>> STAFANSKI HAS TO ANSWER FORTHAT !!!!

We will finish this season in the 5-7 Wins range. We are what we are.

I’m to upset to be rational but someone has to take the blame for this. We have throw away 3 games. 3 games.

Hard to stay positive when we see these things, huh? I'm done with them until next week.

We probably should be 5-0...

the crazy news is that we will be in second place if Baltimore wins.

This game is on Cade York. Make 1 of those 2 misses and we win.

Simple as that.

The D stopped them when they had to. This is on Cade.

I was listening to the Chargers play by play call for a bit. We went empty backfield on 1st and 10 late Q3/early Q4. Their comment?
Every time the browns go empty backfield, a chargers fan gets his wings.
They were thankful and talked aboout how scary Chubb is back there.

Ended up incomplete pass
On 2nd and 10 we ran for 5
They then pointed out how if we had run than on 1st doen instead of the empty backfield it would have been 2nd and 5

I've said that all season, dumbest formation that stefanski uses...makes Zero sense.. you have Chubb and Hunt, you can have one of them back there at all times

Actually, regardless of who wins sunday night football, we are tied for 2nd with the loser 1 game back of the winner.

I feel Priefer is at fault for that

Got to Coach up a rookie

- The defense is embarrassingly bad.

- Stefanski bailed out early in redzone by Brissett's Oscar worthy flop. He then finally decides to run Chubb north and south for the TD.

- Staley tries his best to hand the Browns the game. Browns respectfully say, no thank you.

- I am yet to see JJ III do anything of note since he has signed here.

- Brissett throws another critical interception at the worst time. Terrible late game decision making. He could've ran for the first down, possibly the TD.

- As always, Chubb is amazing.

- DPJ, Njoku and Cooper did their jobs.

- Play calling was bad on final possession. Deep ball incomplete. Running Hunt sideways instead of trying to get into a more manageable FG range for a rookie kicker.

- The Chargers were ranked dead last in rushing heading into this game. They gashed the Browns 238 yards today.

- The Browns is the Browns.

The Browns are what they are. 2 and 3..
This team was very over rated in the off season

I too am sick of them not using Chubb. He will want out of Cleveland as soon as he gets the chance. We are ruining his career.

This team is always overrated in the offseason. And of course the obligatory “gotta look at the tape” or “the loss is on me” BS from the HC but nothing actually gets done about it. Sell the team Jimmy. This ain’t the sport for you. Find another rebate scam to get involved in. Sucks to know after all these years the offense finally doesn’t three and out constantly. Only to not be able to stop anyone and everyone. And when they finally make a stop special teams blows it. Like is this supposed to just fix itself when and if DW comes back?

I have loved this franchise since I was 5 years old (1979), and I don't want to add to the list of hate. However, I am pretty sure that we, as a fan base, would be so much better off if these idiots just moved!!! I love the Cleveland Browns. But these aren't the Cleveland Browns. It's just a long running joke of patheticism. The Haslam's ego won't allow them to sell the team or do anything smart. But that doesn't mean we have to enable them. Just stop giving them money! Deny them the resources to make ever-increasing poor decisions. And, if we are lucky, they will darken some other poor city with this catastrophe of an organization.

Why does Stefanski always play for the 55 yd fg? It's as soon as they get to 55 yds, he runs a bunch of low probability plays to do everything he can not to help his kicker.

Brandon Staley said "watch this"...Stefanski said "hold my beer".

Oh well. Stefanski might make a good OC for someone. I'm not sure there is anyone on the staff that understands defense.

Bengals draft a kicker, and he's a brash talking braggart that backs up his play. Browns draft a kicker, feels he's arrived since a miraculous game 1 play, and now he looks like the ten previous guys the Browns have had.

Losers lose. Browns are losers. I don't know that there is anything else to say. But I bet Stefanski says he has to learn. LOL

This.

Another long week ahead after another excruciating loss. How many times have we been through this?

At some point we have to stop caring right?

j/c...

LOL.

Took me years after the dissolution to stop caring about the Ex

Not caring isn't easy to do

no matter the situation

Bite tongue !

Myles Garrett has a million dollar skill set and ten cent maturity and awareness. He's also not a very smart player.

He ran around the edge every single pass rush and every single time Herbert calmly stepped up. How about a bull rush?

Clowney plays with more heart and more timely plays than Garrett.

I'll add JOK is a crushing disappointment. Makes no plays. When he's in position, can't bring the guy down. These guys gave up 200+ rushing yards to the worst rushing team in the league. It's laughable.

I thought the worst call (aside from the 4th and 1) of the game was the little pitch to Hunt with about 50 seconds left. That doomed us to settle for a long FG

Disrespectful? Myles needs to check himself. He is doing nothing to make a difference. You earn respect, someone ought to tell Garret that

The Jets, who have the worst coaching staff in the league and a terrible quarterback, are 3-2. What does that make Stefanski?

Want to see a great coach who gets above average results when it's not expected? Check out the Giants.

Want to see a below average coach who gets below average results when it's not expected? Check out the Browns.

Garrett was double teamed a lot today.

Unfortunately you’re close to the truth.

Looks good on the team stationary. That's about the only place it applies in this organization. LOL

He's a genius. He isn't going anywhere. Stefanski doesn't have the guts to get rid of him. So much for accountability on this team. Hollow words from our clueless "leader".

If Jacoby Brisset knew where to go with the ball as soon as he decided to pass
while inside the opponents I0 yard line, in the last two games.

the Browns might have won 3 straight including today.

Now is that coaching or what is that?

He's got to get better and learn how to put this players in better positions to win. Someday he will figure out that if Chubb is on the field that is a start. He may not be in Cleveland when he figures it out, but that's another discussion for another day. The guy is an idiot who sticks to the process regardless of the outcome. The outcome is what matters and he still hasn't figured that out. But he better figure it out fast or he will be out of a job. I wonder if he has any statistics on that? SMH

Hey Myles go take some driving lessons. Or maybe, just maybe, make a game changing play that results in a win. Until then, just SHUT YOUR MOUTH. Your team lost. Again. And got booed off the field. Again.

Post game thoughts: 2 missed field goals.

Stupid game on the line and Brisset screws the pooch

D did oky until, get this - they didn't.

At least Brisset won't turn the ball over at critical times, right?


No reason, other than stupidity, that the Browns aren't undefeated at this point in time.

Tired of it. Glad I didn't throw out some $500 for tickets, the gas money, toll charges, and $ for food, let alone parking and concessions.

Everything else aside that was going on in the game today...
We had (2) chances within the last 3 minutes at home to get the win and we did not get a point from either drive.

Jacoby's decision on the pass in that situation was-I don't even know what to say-you just can't do that. Hell, he probably could have ran for the touchdown.

And then by some miracle, we get the ball back and get a first down at their 35-and the next three play calls were inexcusable, just horrible.
And with the game on the line, Chubb is not in.

He's becoming the ex QB who plays in Carolina of the Defense !

Nothing like playing the Browns defense to fix what ails your team offensively. We have to get a new Defensive Coordinator.

still waiting for Garrett to make a play..a positive one that is. See him over run a run play constantly, or constantly only take the outside on a rush so many times the opposition knows this and has the LT setup inside to push garrett outside creating a nice throwing lane.. Sorry but Clowney is 10x the DE garrett is. But neither being done any favors by Berry and his choices for DT and LB.. Get a Suh in the middle that requires his own double team and watch how much better both DE's are

Well said sir......well said....

Just watched the post game presser and they could almost record it and use it from week to week. Same old excuses but never gets fixed. Joe Woods should get a job in a school cafeteria and he would still probably screw that up.

We got shredded by the worse running game in the NFL. That's pathetic.

Looks like York might just be a one hit wonder. 2 missed field goals. either one would have won the game.

Why Chubb is on the sidelines when we need some yards to get closer for a FG is beyond me. That one is on KS.

This team seems to always find a way to lose even when the other team wants to hand you a win. We say "No thank you.....you take it".

None of that should even matter. JB is a backup QB in this league for a reason. They knew that before they ever took the field. The idea was to have a defense that could keep the score down so JB didn’t have to “win” the game. He obviously does not do very well when the game is on the line. Not a starter. With that being said he is doing better than anyone expected and has played well enough to have this team 5-0. Problem is he has zero help. As a matter of fact both other phases are working against him. Another week they trot out that unaccountable mess on the field. They are certainly not the only team that just can’t figure it out but why do they ALWAYS have a team that can’t figure it out? Multiple owners coaches and players all with the same garbage result. It’s maddening.

We seems to be our own worst enemy.

Bad decisions making in crucial moments from our coaches. Simple mistakes on routine plays. We’re often performing our worst when it matter most.

It’s really hard to be positive when we over and over again lose games that’s winnable.

I'll leave the post game chat with this ... Stefanski is 2-3 against the easiest schedule in the league. I said this before but he gets extra credit for not looking like a slob, not saying dumb stuff (although that might come to an end as the losses pile up over the next several weeks), and for giving the offense an identity. None of those make him a good head coach. He lost to the Jets with Robert Saleh, the second worst head coach in the league after Rhule, with 1:30 left up by 13 with the Jets having no timeouts. The evidence that he's not a good head coach far outweighs the evidence to the contrary.

But we will have people in here who continue to support the below average results because he can scheme guys open. It's one of the dumbest arguments of all time. Stefanski is wasting so many players primes it's crazy.

We're just wasting Chubb's career.

I'm beyond angry and frustrated just like everyone else.

I would love to hurrell a water bottle at Haslem right now. Not really, I just need to release some anger. Maybe Joe Woods is a more worthy target.

It's not Haslam. It's Stefanski. He's not a very good HEAD coach. Watch the Eagles. Watch the Giants. These teams have young head coaches. Watch how their teams play. It's night and day.

I don't blame the coaching

I feel Priefer needs to help York

I put this loss on two missed FGs

and the only turnover of the game

the JB interception

JB played very well

we’ve simply left too many points on the board in our losses when you take into account how bad our defense is. We have too little margin for error

The 2 missed FG today yes. Also the missed XP against the Jets. 3 losses for a grand total of 6 points. It makes me sick!!!!!! WE are a losing organization, been that way since '99. This is what happens week after week when that is the case.

Competent coaching has at 5-0, 4-1 at worst
York, bro, all that goodwill from that 1st game kick has been evaporated with your misses. Your heading down the path of Zane Gonzalez. Man I wish we could clone Justin Tucker and bring him here.

All JB had to do is run. He might have gotten the 1st down but if not, it would have been an easy FG or should have been. JB threw it right to the defender. when he let it go, I could see what was going to happen. IF JB wanted to purposely throw the game away, he couldn't have done it better. We're playing the Pats next week. Last year we got beat 45-7 by them and I really heard it for the next few weeks. I'm getting ready for it again.

I don't know the stats, but the Chargers had to have had close to 500 yards O....or at least it seemed like it. They just marched up and down the field.

Rather give Phil Dawson a drink from the

Fountain of Youth

J/C
I’m no longer a season ticket holder so I’ll include the people who actually pay for this nonsense in my next sentence. Season ticket holders put up with 1-15, 0-16, and around 3 more years of tanking for the product that we have now. A garbage 2-3 team that is poorly coached and was poorly assembled by one of the most overrated front offices in the nfl. You people, the ones who pay lots of money for this, are the ones who should be most enraged. For a sliver of time, it looked like tanking was paying off. The 2018 season gave fans hope and the 2020 season gave us a playoff win. - Everything that has happened before and after those two seasons has been complete crap. And this is what season ticket holders deserve? One stupid wildcard victory in exchange for a decades worth of crap? If this team doesn’t turn this around quick then we might as well start another rebuild at the end of this season. It’s getting clearer and clearer that the most recent rebuild is a complete failure. Fire Andre Berry; Fire Stefanski if this thing doesn’t get fixed quickly.

There is zero chance the Browns beat the Pats. You would basically be saying Stefanski is going to beat Belichek. We know that ain't happening. The Pats will probably run for 400 yards. After the game Stefanski will say he needs to learn from it.

Yep, NE shut out Jared Goff and Detroit with their backup QB, Zappe.

IIRC last time played NE they totally had our number

7-45 jog your memory ?

It was bad !

I might start having some fun betting against the Browns and making some money.

The Texans are going to have a dope draft pick next year.

I’ve done it for a long time … i wont bet before the game, but if the Browns get a lead I’ll put a little money on the other team. Browns got up 14-0 and I put 10 bucks on LA. It eases the pain by .00001%

j/c:

This was a heartbreaking loss. Once again, our offense did more than enough to win. The D was terrible and we missed two kicks. The difference between 3 and 2 vs 2 and 3 is huge. Most people thought the Chargers were going to kill us when the schedule came out and it seemed many still felt the same way this past week. We could have won, but we didn't. No excuses.

Some thoughts:

--Jacoby had a very solid game. I like how he puts the ball low and away from the defender most of the time. Very much unlike the last guy here who threw our receivers into harms way. He was very accurate most of the day. However, at the end..........he made a God-awful decision and it should have sealed the game. Terrible decision. No excuses.

--Stefanski called a great game. He had a great balance of pass and run. He exploited the 8 man boxes. I question the call to hand the ball off on 4th and 1 in our own territory. JB is great at sneaking. Other than that, I thought he called a great game. Even the announcer [a former NFL player was marveling over our scheme.]

--Chubb was magnificent again. However, he dropped a pass that probably would have went for a TD.

--The bust, Njoku, had another very good game.

--DPJ is looking good when he gets opportunities.

--Hunt ran hard.

--The OL played well. The center is surprising me. Wills is really improving.

--Cooper looked good.

--I don't care for Bryant.

--Our D blows! I guess we can blame the scheme, but I actually agree--at least in part--w/lead. Our guys are terrible tacklers in space. Man, we are not very agile.

--JOK gets a lot of love, but he isn't all that. He misses a lot of tackles. Takes terrible angles in the passing game.

--Delpit is a good tackler, but does he ever cover anyone.

--Ward is having an off year.

--I did not like the Emerson pick, but this kid can play. He's winning me over. Physical dude who is surprisingly good coverage.

--Cowney had a good game.

--I was disappointed that Myles never made a big play. I will say that he was getting a ton of attention. They showed one play where he just missed Herbert [who stepped up in the pocket] but Myles had to beat the chip from the TE, beat the LT, and then a third guy came over and hit him. Our other guys have to take advantage of that.

--Our punter is awesome!

--Cade York is becoming a problem.

--Herbert is a great QB. He has great pocket presence. Love the way he moves in the pocket to buy time.

--Staley tried to give us the game. What a dumb call when we didn't have any timeouts left. We out-coached them, but lost anyway.

If I'm an opposing team... I'm running the ball 80% of the game. Browns defense just can't help themselves.

That's why the Pat's will destroy the Browns next week. No one is better at game planning than Belichek. He might not pass one time all game.

Good point Vers, i forgot about the Chubb dropped pass. IMO that was one of the plays of the game

I know you are not suggesting this, but others may. I am not dogging Chubb. Crap happens. He had an outstanding game and is a great player. But yeah, that was a huge play. Instead of another TD, we had to punt.

I don't think that was a drop. It was too far out in front. Would have had to lay out to even have a.chance to.catch it.

The Browns will let you down there as well. Chargers were -3 today.

true story. He might even pick up a back off someone’s practice squad that matches up just for this game. It all comes down to how much longer is mediocre acceptable. Plenty of teams have proved giving a coach 3 years isn’t necessary nor does rebuilds take that long. But we are winning the game of spending the least

It went right between his hands.

I agree. Not a drop. Would've been a hell of a catch. Also agree he would've needed to lay out to come up with it and would have been tapped down.

It was a good read by Chubb to get up field when he saw Brissett scrambling. Game of inches. <shrugs shoulders emoji>

I'll just take every team on the moneyline. I'll just lay out the extra cash since the Browns won't likely be favored from here on out. Our ceiling is probably 6 wins. That's 4-8 the rest of the way. If I'm smart about it I could make a few Washingtons.

Watch it again and tell me if you think that.

Yeah, ML is the way to go. Don’t allow yourself the pain of losing BOTH the game AND the bet

The ball was out in front. No doubt. But, it still went right between his hands. I am not dissing Chubb, but he should have caught that ball and he did not lose his balance. You can have the last word.

The Browns don't prioritize winning in any portion of their operation...roster building, prep leading up to a season, prep leading up to a game, in game decisions, staff hiring , etc. If they did, the results would be different.

It's also clear it wasn't just Baker holding the team back and the covid season was.actually a benefit.to Stefanski. Guy can't even win at home.

I think that pass was a little long for Chubb to catch. I did wonder if Hunt might have made a better play on that one.

So disappointing... had a chance to win it a couple of times and just couldn't close... this team is so close to being undefeated... but we're 2-3 with some tough games coming up...

offense played well overall... should have QB sneaked on that 4th and short... JB can't throw a INT late in the game... just killer...

defense was up and down... got ran all over today but was able to put us in a position to win...

kicker has been really disappointing since game one..

Yep, just because he is better than Hue doesn’t mean he’s good

Why does Stefanski get all Freddie Kitchens at the goal line and in the 4th quarter?

He's not a very good coach. We are stuck hoping he can become a good coach.

I think he’s a good coach in terms of scheme, but sometimes a bad coach in terms of play call. Plus, his inability to rid himself of Woods will be a downfall

Hard to believe but the Giants and Jets are playing better than we are. Well, at least they're finishing games.

Which coach made the worst call of the game? And it wasn't even close. So, it's not a hard question.

The Jets will come crashing down. That's not sustainable with Saleh and Wilson. Neither are good. They just played two dregs of the league. Kudos to them they won, but they'll still finish poorly.

Daboll is interesting. That guy really paid his dues and appears to have learned a ton along the way. His team was down 14 to Aaron Rodgers and didn't even flinch. Their body language said they believed. If we got down 14 we'd be sulking and Stefanski would have his head buried in his waffle house menu (love that reference...not sure which poster it was that said it).

Which team lost?

Staley being bad doesn't make Stefanski good. Actually Staley handed the game to Stefanski and he still couldn't close.

I had a bad feeling before this season that Stefanski was a problem, and it's playing out like I feared.

We used to have an amazing screen game. I don't remember the last successful one. No draws either.

We haven't been calling screens.

Actually as soon as rhe scripted plays are over with we struggle to get our footing. We were up 14-0 today and gave up 17 unanswered.

We gave the Chargers the ball at our own 30 because of a stupid coaching decision. They got a free 3 points. They gave it to us at their 47 because of a stupid decision, we got nothin' when we needed it most. Not that is by any means a measuring stick of how good a coach is...

I was watching in a bar without sound but it sure looked to me that it would have been a very difficult catch, at best he would have had to dive to catch it. He barely got his hands on it and he was fully extended

The Alternative Universe is a real thing.

The one without the Cheerleaders

Charger Girls !

Not even YOU, in your ego, could have made that catch.

3 losses by 6 points. It really can grate on one's nerves!!!!

So true Homewood

When the Browns were up by 14

I was still a nervous wreck and had no

faith in a win

Curious to know what Myles means by "soft spots on our defense"??

Me too. If we were up by 28after 1 quarter, I'd have no faith in a win!!

I was watching in a bar without sound but it sure looked to me that it would have been a very difficult catch, at best he would have had to dive to catch it. He barely got his hands on it and he was fully extended

It's the area from the D line back to the safeties and out to the corners....
Other than than they are solid.

Is there an echo in here? LOL

We are an absolute horrible 2nd half Team. Take whatever "adjustments" are being made.at halftime and do the opposite.

Fate my friend

I'm tired of Myles

Brilliant.

Steelers open to coaching changes. Take note Browns!!

https://www.si.com/nfl/steelers/news/pittsburgh-steelers-open-coaching-changes-bills

The George Costanza approach. Love it.

One of the issues with the Browns is their two best defensive players, Myles and Ward, are soft and aren't leaders.

Steelers w/3 Head Coaches since 1969. Browns fans take note.

Then I'm not sure they should be called the best

maybe the best paid !

Myles is soft and not a leader?

Bro. I swear to God, I almost posted that earlier. Was looking for a Costanza meme and forgot lol!

It's not just that we lost 3 games by a total of 6 points, though that certainly contributes. But I think it is also the way we lose these games.

NYJ up 14 with 1:55 remaining in the game
LAC - up 14
And then carolina, even though we won, up 13 at the half, 16 at the start of the 4th quarter and 9 with 6:17 remaining

And not just giving up then leads because the other teams are making great plays, rather because we are soing stupid stuff

Stefanski would never do this. Does he even consider Woods as reporting to him?

I was told Stefanski had nothing to do with the defense and he's a good head coach because the offense is putting up points.

Maybe Depo will make the call and let Stefanski know if he decides to make a change.

Please provide a link. Because I can provide a link that says that Baker was mad at Stefanski for meeting w/Myles.

What was the penalty on Johnson in the first half? They didnt explain it in the replay.

So are you saying shut up and dribble?

He wasn't meeting with myles to discuss defense. He was meeting with myles to ask him not to air their dirty laundry to the press. Myles was probably like "why are you meeting with me? You're not my coach."

And lighten up. The Browns suck. Again. Might as well have some fun with it.

We cant successfully run screen stuff to RB/TE because teams are all over it. It’s probably near the top of their scouting reports.

You did not provide a link to your claim.

I can't control how you interpret the words on the screen.

I'm not looking up your posts so why don't we just settle it right here.

Yes or no, is Stefanski responsible for the defense?

The Browns flushed Herbert from the pocket. He escaped to the left and was running out of bounds for a minimal gain or a loss...I can't remember which. The Browns didn't go after him and Ekerler threw a pretty hard block on one of our guys after we we eased up. The Browns complained. JJ pointed his finger at Ekeler. A flag came out and I thought they were going to flag the Chargers, but they flagged JJ. He must have said something he should not have.

I thought it should have been a no-call either way. I think they got a first down out of it.

Chuck Noll 193-148-1
.566 winning percentage

Bill Cowher
149-90-1
.623 winning percentage

Mike Tomlin
155-88-2
.637 winning percentage.


Real easy not to fire head coaches with these winning percentages
The only real consideration was in Noll's early years
Year 1 only one win
Year 2 increased to 5
Year 3 he had 6 wins -> this would have been the only time to seriously consider a a change
Year 4 he has 11 wins and followed that with double digit wins the next 4 years as well

In the 5 years prior to hiring Noll, they only had 18 wins
That is an average of less than 4 wins/year for those 5 years.
In the year immediately prior to hiring him they only had 2

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/TomlMi0.htm

One more I think it was teller, a flag was thrown, they told him to get off the field. No penalty was called and I think he was back in the next play.

That was Wills and unless he took too long to get up or looked shaky, I don't get the ref sending him out.

I thought they were throwing Wills out because he had the earlier warning for the unsportsmanlike. Not sure why they made him leave.

If he has nothing to do with the defense and Woods does not report to him, then he isn't a head coach, he is an offensive coordinator

Exactly.

Unlike you.........I answer questions.

He is responsible as the HC for the performance of the team. However, to suggest that he coaches the D is beyond ignorant. He can fire Woods and in that way he is responsible, but I think that firing him right now would be beyond ignorant. You might disagree w/the latter and that is fine. I am expressing my opinion that firing a HC who pitched so many single digit one-digit scores just one year ago despite horrendous qb play and the offense putting them in terrible positions is beyond ignorant.

I agree that the D is sucking this year. A change might be needed. However, I don't think now is the time. That's just my opinion and I am not saying I am right. Is it okay if I express that or are you joining the Fabulous Baker Boys and telling me what I am allowed to post?

Terrible defense. Run defense gave up over 200 yards to the formerly worst running team in the NFL.

The Browns are too predictable on pass downs. Double Garrett and take your chances because they never blitz.

The Browns defense gave up 30 points. So sure if I am Staley, I go for it. Almost gave it away. Dumb decision.

Terrible int by Brisset, when the field was open for a decent gain or a TD.at least a short FG.

Learn which hash York wants the ball to kick from on those long FG. I think York will be fine.

Not many players in the pass game.

Prove that claim, please. Why do you guys just make stuff up?

The refs sent him to the sideline because he got rolled up on and they feared he was injured. I think.

Got texted, Brown's trading for linebacker Falconz Dion Jones, late round pick.
Does the team owner have a terminal illness again?

Joe Woods CAN be fired tomorrow, but he won't. Teams that fire coordinators during the season just promote within, they don't bring in an outsider with a different scheme/terminology mid-season, that's just insanity. If he survives a fourth season he must have dirt on someone in the organization.

That's how I looked at it also

can the refs do that ?

I also thought it was because of a personal foul

I have not called for a coaching change, for a couple reasons.

Woods, he sucked it up at the start of last season, then made some some changes and the D played pretty well after that.
My questions are:
Why did we revert to the same things we were doing at the start of the season?
Can he make adjustments like he did last year?

Stefanski
I was not a fan of the hire.
He had a good 1st season so I ate crow
He completely mishandled the Baker injury/Qb situation last season - IMO
He is not doing a great job this season.
But I worry that my personal bias may be influencing my opinions so I try to stay out of it
But I agree with you Vers that now is probably not the time to start firing coaches.

I want to keep Stef... but feel a change and DQ is needed... offense has been much better overall this year... but defense is trash....

And Stefanski's winning percentage is about the same as Noll's. [.568.] He took over a team that was 14-49-1 before he got there. Yeah, he's the problem.

I thought you only had to go out if you were on the ground long enough that the training staff came out OR if you showed concussion symptoms... I don't think either of those two things happened. Did his helmet come off? Don't you have to go out for a play if your helmet comes off, without being yanked by somebody?

The only person making chit up in this chain of posts is you.

Here’s where I am too. I like KS. I think our offense is superb (sans a few play calls in key spots)… but our defense is THAT bad

I wondered if he didn't say something to the ref

Looks like there was a little talk between him and the ref

then the get off the field motion

I've been a big fan of Ward in former years. I don't think you can consider him a top player for the Browns this year. Maybe not top 5 on D, which is scary considering how bad the D is.

I am not and have not been a KS fan
I also did not claim that he was the problem.

I posted winning percentages in Pittsburgh to support my assertion that after the 1st couple years of Noll's regime that it was easy for them not to fire their HC

I think SKI is way better than a guy you fire mid-season. We know when things are clicking he can be good. My problem with his play calling is this, our strengths and weaknesses are glaring, stop overthinking this crap and just string together plays that are high probability or that we've proven we can execute well. These past two weeks SKI seems to be trying to force the plays he wants to see instead of what's working. Camp is over, we are what we are, use our strengths.

I like KS and I think he's a pretty good OC for 54 minutes. I have absolutely zero confidence that he's going to generate any offense at all during crunch time though. If I have time, I might go dig up some metrics on our QB/offense in those end of game situations.. they have to be well below average when compared to other QBs around the league..

What is to prove?

I said, IF meaning that I don't know and do not claim to know.
As for the rest of that statement, it is blatantly obvious as well.
A HC coaches the team, offense, defense, and special teams
The coordinators are more limited and the position coaches even more limited than that.
IF there is a problem somewhere the HC need to step in and address it with the coordinator and if necessary the position coaches
IF he shirks those responsibilities then he is not acting as the HC but rather as a coordinator.
I would consider that a problem, IF that was indeed the case.

Again IF meaning I do not know nor do I claim that to be the case.
Not making chit up
Using standard English

I was not a fan of KS. However, I became one because he is a good coach. I am allowed to express my opinion on that, especially when I use facts to support them.

And I am fine with that.

You have a big problem when people twist your words - which you should
I would expect the courtesy of you not twisting my words/meaning.
You even highlighted my IF, then accuse me of making chit up.

jc -

When did toe taps not become sufficient enough to be in bounds and now your heal has to also be in? I saw that twice this weekend.

I apologize if I misinterpreted your meaning. I must have misread it. Sorry.

I understand why we are all upset.
We should be 5-0 today except we aren't bc it seems like we are purposefully going out and looking for ways to lose games.
However we should look at the standings and note that we are 1 game out of 1st with 12 left to play.
This season is in it's infancy and we are right in the thick of things.
We are just disappointed because we should be running away with the division at this point.

Apology accepted

Bump.

If your heal comes down out of bounds then you're out.... if you toe touches then comes up and you go out then you're in... but your heal can't touch out of bounds... always been the rule...

You can still toe tap if facing the sideline. If you back into the sideline your heel cannot touch out of bounds. It has been that way for as long as I can remember

Thank you both. Maybe I'm just having a brain fart.

so Stefanski= Noll.... got it, nevermind Noll had that percentage after about 300 more games and 4 superbowls..but sure...that makes sense

We're just not used to seeing as many of these plays as in the past. Usually the "toe tap" occurred as the player was facing the sideline. We've just had an extreme amount of back shoulder plays and players are getting good at "backwards-toe-tapping", for back of a better term.

When the receiver is falling forward its the tips of the feet or toes that make contact that is considered having control

The rule is the same as going out of bounce heel has to hit first if the heel hits out of bounce then ofc it's not a catch

If he catches that and drags both toes going out of bounce before the heel touches out of bounce its a TD

Simply his heel hit out of bounce as he caught the ball

A new signature?
The voice of reason to the voice of reason.

That wasn't my real point, lead. I think that it's wise to be stable. Firing coaches all the time has not worked. No one can argue that, right.

Stefanski turned this team around. He was responsible for Baker's best year. People blamed him for Baker for falling off last year along w/the injury. Well, Baker sucks more than ever. Ww were 4-49-1 before he got here. We have a winning record w/him. Give him time. Let's see what he can do w/Watson next year. It will be the first time he has an elite qb.

j/c...

Seems bad.

Staley made the right call. I knocked him for it. Stefanski would have done the same. Teams either are all in on analytics or they're not on 4th down calls.

A couple of comments

KS is not good at positioning the team for a fourth quarter win. He has Shottenheimer playoff syndrome and goes too conservative.

Chubb should be the closer. Too many times I have seen Hunt in the role, but Chubb changes the defense.

We lost the game again and some of you says that our HC had a great game. Reflect a few seconds of what “had a great game” actually means.

That our kicker don’t have enough confidence in himself isn’t a coincidence.
When JB throws a totally brainless pass when the game was literally in his hands is also not a coincidence.
And why do our defense look like headless chickens whenever they’re facing a little bit of pressure?

The losing mentality in this organization and among some supporters sits so deep that excuses has becoming a habit. Stefanski is again frustrated. Mary Kay ask meaningless questions and the charades continues. Players shakes their heads. Supporters shake their heads.

On You Tube Quincy had his channel where he mocks critical viewers with saying that they don’t know football. Sounds familiar.

Just finished watching the post game pressers and they could record those and just use the same one week after week. It's the same thing...We need to do better. It's everyone's fault. Well i disagree. The play calling still sucks week after week. We have 2 of the best running backs in the NFL and Chubb is the best and he is on the sidelines in situations when we need him in there. I don't know what it is about Stef that he can't see that Chubb needs to be on the field....PERIOD.

I think York just might be a one hit wonder. There is no excuse for him to be missing field goals that are within range. That's his damn job and he gets paid good money just to kick a ball. Do your job man !!!!!!

Joe Woods sucks as a D coordinator and needs to hit the bricks. Our D played soft in 3rd and long situations and our D line couldn't hold back granny in a walker.

This team has issues along with the coaching staff and things need to change or we will be lucky if we are even a .500 team at seasons end. I fully expect the Bungles and Ratbirds to beat us when we play them.

I am done venting. I am 71 years old and been a browns fan since I was a kid and I just don't see things getting better from year to year. These players make some serious money and I expect more from them than what we are getting. And they wonder why they get booed off the field. They have one of the best fan bases in the NFL and we expect better. It just gets old,the same crap year after year.

Hang in there Harley. I’m not 71 but I’ll be there soon with this team. We all feel how you do.

One thing I do like is it seems the team is doing what I have wanted for a long time. For years I have been moaning about fullbacks and TE's who are kept for blocking. I have been saying that if you want blocking, just play some O-lineman as the FB or blocking TE.

Now to keep things somewhat honest, we need to toss a pass or hand the ball off every once in a while to those guys. Again, just to keep a hint of that possibility alive. I am sure that Froholt could handle a dive play or Dunn could catch some lob pass.

Good point Peen. I like our usage of extra OL especially in high leverage situations. That’s why the 4th and 1 was so puzzling with the pulling guards and weird play to Hunt … so, so dumb

j/c...

This defense should be absolutely embarrassed of themselves.

Love the fire and intensity here from Garrett.

That lack of effort by Garrett is shameful.

Same as it ever was...
Same as it ever was...
Same as it ever was...
Look where my hand was
Time isn't holding up
Time is an asterisk
Same as it ever was...
Same as it ever was...
Same as it ever was...
Same as it ever was...
Same as it ever was...
Same as it ever was...
Same as it ever was...
Yeah, the twister comes
Here comes the twister
Same as it ever was...

Jimmy not having much fun.

It is nice to see that interest in wins and loses our owner has. Some owners only care about the profit their teams make.

Who gives a crap about efficiency? You are LOSING games because of crappy play, crappy play calling, crappy everything. That's about all you are efficient at at this point. This roster should NOT be 2-3 with the cupcake schedule. Just ridiculous. But hey, continue to work on things that need to be fixed coach. More of the same nonsense that addresses NOTHING from week to week. Stick to your processes. Don't worry about the results. UNTIL YOU LOSE YOUR JOB. Then maybe, just maybe, you will figure out what the NFL is about: WINNING FOOTBALL GAMES. Start winning coach or you will be gone. We are all tired of these CONTINUED excuses EVERY week. If you have to put your players in a position to win games, THEN DO IT NOW! If you have to give the players a better scheme, DO IT NOW! If you the players have to get better at blocking, tackling, running, throwing, etc., PRACTICE THESE THINGS NOW! The fans are RESULTS oriented. We don't give a crap about your processes or analytics. WIN OR ELSE! DO IT NOW!

Overrated. Soft. No fire whatsoever (unless he gets booed). Not a leader. I have no problem trading him.

We don't need no stinking quitters Myles.

This is how he labels you if you disagree with him. If anyone is surprised by that at this point in time I would be shocked.

I'm a sucker for mathematics... A few questions, points, etc...


We backtest all of these scenarios to come up with these numbers. Over what period of time, I have no idea. Here's what I do know... Sample size for each scenario is incredibly slanted. A mere five years ago, going for it there would be among the strangest of anomalies.

So, we have a very large sample size for punting and a very small one for going for it. Which leads to the next point... It's often something out of the ordinary, which catches a team by surprise, which leads to a higher success rate. Now that it's an ordinary occurrence, should we expect these percentages to hold true?? Probably not, they'll move a bit one way or another.

Bottom line -- the teams playing right now, that are embracing analytics as some god-like algorithm, will live and die by the fact they are the laboratory rats in providing the real percentages for the future (now that the game is changing so dramatically).

In this case -- up 2, 4th and 1, 54 yards from opponents endzone, 4th qtr @ 1:13, TOs: offense 1 / defense 0
I see the data that says 88% win rate. Honestly, my very first thought is "that's because it's only happened eight times"... 7 of 8 equals 87.5%. Of those eight times, most or nearly all are from a time when nobody in the world would expect it. How many first downs because the stunned defense jumped offsides? Three? That will never happen now.

Who knows... My real point is this: we're using analytics and real percentages to predict the future... they do not predict the future because the present is creating it. There are no forward thinking algorithms.

Really fascinating stuff.

j/c

I just wanted to touch on a point here. Sometimes a strong suit isn't what you think it is. Let's take the running game. There is no doubt that the Browns have the best RB tandem in the NFL. That makes it very much a strong suit of the offense. But when the D gives up more rushing yards to your opponents, even a terrible rushing team, it isn't a strong suit of your team. Losing the rushing battle in totality and YPC is inexcusable with having Hunt and Chubb in your backfield.

Secondly, the reason for that is obvious. There is terrible talent on the interior of the DL. Almost every poster on the board said as much before the season and nothing was actually done to correct it. There have been huge investments in the secondary over time in the draft and attention as well as money invested in keeping them. Ward has been especially concerning. So a few questions must be asked. Did Woods tell Berry they were fine on the interior of the DL? Is that why Barry didn't address upgrades there? Or was it that the analytics tell Berry it's not a priority to invest in? Did Berry cause Ward to forget how to play CB?

Now before I go further I think people need to consider something. You can't expect that when your DE's are being sent in to "try" and get pressure on the opposing QB that they can also hold the responsibility for outside contain. They can't be in two places at the same time. You can't be working your way inside while being on the outside. It's called physics. Very basic physics.

I understand why people wish to put the blame all on Berry's shoulders. And believe me I'm not saying he doesn't deserve some of it. I'm just not sure all of the issues on D lay squarely at his feet.

Thirdly. What is up with Myles? The D played like crap one week and he had an issue with the fans booing their performance. Then this week he feels "disrespected" by a team going for it on fourth down that is running the ball down their throats the entire game?

ATTENTION Myles; Respect is earned not given. Spend more time working on earning respect than expecting it while doing a crappy job. You obviously don't have a clue how any of this works.

Before this game, if someone would have told me that We would hold Herbert to 220 or so yards, with 1 TD ... I would take that all day any day. Herbert scares me, I think he is a top QB in the league.

I hate to say this after a loss, but there were a lot of positives. I honestly did not think we could hand with the Chargers, but we did. They tried to hand us the game. The W was there for us.

The positives? Other than the pick, Jacoby had a really nice game. Three picks, all 4th quarter heart-breaking ones. The run game, again, was fantastic. Cooper was involved. DPJ with some nice catches. Njoku with another big game. I checked the stats, 6 catches on 6 targets. Some were tough catches. I like a TE who can catch in traffic. And, like I said, we held Herbert in check, compared to his usual game.

I never coached, and I am not a play-caller. But I wonder at a few of the calls. The 4th down in our territory, why not Brissett on a sneak? I think it is a higher percentage play.

And on the last drive, getting another 5-10 yards should have been the goal. We run to the outside, and then throw for the end zone. I get not being predictable.

Of most concern, to me, is the lack of a run defense. Against ATL the talk was that were out 3 starting DL. They were all back, and still got gashed. Even worse, the Charger's were pitiful running the ball, until yesterday. We are soft up the middle. Clowney seemed disruptive, but the middle is weak.

At the end of the day, it's a loss.

I agree. There have been positives in every game. We are so close to being a perennial contender that it's painful. But we just can't seem to get it right. AND that is more deflating than being flat-out awful.

Not sure yet if this is true, but heard a rumor that the Browns are planning on removing all the seating in the end zones... I guess they plan on replacing them with bleachers that collapse in the 4th quarter.....

We're close OCD but not being able to stop the run is our Achilles heel. If we had 2 Good run stopping DT, we would be 5-0 right now. They would have made the difference. Our O is doing pretty good even with JB and our WR group. I said it on another post we knew about our LOT at the DT position in late April after the draft and did nothing about it. That's our biggest problem

Nice football post, Cap. I kinda agree w/the pass to the endzone. I was surprised w/that call. The outside run turned out bad, but it is one of our signature runs and best plays. It's a toss that utilizes our Outside Zone blocking that has been a huge success for us. It didn't work so the geniuses thought it was a "dumb" play.

I'm of the same mind regarding how close this team is. Now, we have fans who are calling for mid-season coach firings, which is right on schedule for CLE fans. It has, after all, been 3 years. That is our conditioned attention span. As a fan, I totally understand the frustration that has come with this season, but I'm still in the camp that think they'll work it out. 2-3 plays per game establish the record. That's parity in the NFL. Those same few plays? 5-0, and fans are talking jewelry. After Game 5. In a 17-wk season.

Still think that CLE has a post-season shot if they are somewhere near .500 when DW takes his first snaps.

Trying to maintain perspective.

Positive posts are always nice to read

Being up by 14-0 is nice to see

Watching the Fans who paid way more than they should

to go to the game

hearing how loud they were

believing when they walk out of the stadium it'll

be cheers for winning

you're right ! all the positives to

lose and let the home base fans walk out

pissed off and heart broken again

the end of the day at a Browns game

isn't positive

IMO, it's delusional to believe that DW is going to step right in and take us to the playoffs. It's been nearly two years since he last played a meaningful game. Besides, JB is playing passably well, our offense not being part of our problem....

There have been many positives in all 5 of our games. We have a really good team in a lot of regards. Unfortunately we have a really bad teams in some key areas and it’s killing us.

This is why coaching is so important in the NFL. You're never going to have a perfect team. You actually have to motivate players and outsmart the other side. We do that on offense most of the time. We don't do it on defense. We are a rudderless ship on defense.

If I were the offense I'd be so frustrated with the defense. It's a huge indictment that our rookie 3rd round corner basically said guys on the defense don't have the want to.

There's a reason before the season I said the two keys to success were a top 5 defense and Stefanski out coaching the other side. I saw hoth of these problems coming a mile away. And here we sit at 2-3.

I get what you're saying. I was thinking from a personal perspective. Like I said, I am no play-caller, just a guy who watches the games. In a situation like our last drive, where we needed to move the ball into better FG position, I would be risk averse. Looking for plays where, worst case, we would not lose yards. Which would make me predictable, which is not good.

While I might not completely agree with some of the play calls, I will not come out and say this was a dumb play call, this was stupid, etc. Looking at it in hindsight, it's hard to be wrong. On that last drive, with the pass to the end zone, if DPJ scores a TD then everyone would be talking about what a great, gutsy call that was.

Good point about outsmarting the opponent. Our defense is consistently outsmarted. Out schemed, out flanked, etc. And then they turn unmotivated. And then it’s toast. It’s almost astounding how poorly our defense is coached.

I think the offense is coached well. That doesn’t mean the playcalling is always great, but as a unit they’re well coached.

KS problem is his defensive coordinator and lack of motivation.

I am not really defending Woods, but there are some other things to consider. I have seen us w/guys in perfect position to make plays and fail time and time again. JOK is a terrible tackler. Delpit is a good tackler, but is slow to recognize plays. How many times have guys missed tackles. Did you know that "Ekeler has gained +91 rushing yards over expected after this run, the most in a game by any player over the last two seasons?" You are a smart guy, so I know you understand what "yards over expected" means. Is that on the coach or the player? That's a rhetorical question.

I will be okay if we replace Woods at the end of the season if the D continues to stink. But, I do think we should be fair.

Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Steelers w/3 Head Coaches since 1969. Browns fans take note.

probably has more to do with the owners than coaches or fans!

KS coached teams seem to be regressing.

That is the opposite of a good coach.

Inability to consistently win close games is not an indication of a good coach.

On opposite ends here as I did believe KS was a good coach, as well as believed he would be our coach for the long foreseeable future.

But NO WAY can you say KS has improved over the last 3 years. He continues to cost us games.

So looking for opinions about the defense. I want to talk about a few things outside of what has been said. If you are seeing something different, cool..I want to hear it. Different views of it, help me see another angle and re-evaluate my thought process.

Issues I am seeing:

- there are other issues (that has been said) besides this, but I have seen a bunch of players not playing their roles. Examples, the goal line run where Ekeler walked into the right side of the end zone for a TD. Issue: Ward biting inside instead of worrying about outside containment. I've seen LBs / Safeties biting HARD inside on play actions, instead of diagnosing the play.

- last game, someone talk me through the defensive line. what I have seen on passing plays: Are the lineman not rushing their lanes? Is it the stunts that are causing this? But I swear Herbert could have ran almost every time b/c after the snap, the whole line was just jammed all together in the middle. It just looked like one big cluster _. I just didn't see any gap or lane integrity. Maybe I am just remembering wrong, but it just felt that way.

- Our LBs played bad. Sure, I understand the DTs taking pressure off them and that piece of it. But one some of the plays I focused on them, they're angles and sliding to fill the hole looked terrible. One play I remember. I think it was an off tackle run on the left side, JOK was inside seeing Eckler breaking it to outside (it was jammed right in front of him, so the runner wasnt getting anything out of there). Instead of sliding to his right and filling that outside hole, he took too long to diagnose that and ended up getting gobbled up by the guard or center. Eckler ended up having a big run.

Losing Anthony Walker didn't help. But our LBs are also putting a lot of pressure on DBs with their bad play. The DBs obviously have their own issues, but the LBs are putting more pressure on them. Since the RBs were consistently getting to the second level on runs.

- one small thing to bring up, may sound weird to say but Chase Winovich getting injured didn't help things in the early season. Injuries happen, I get it. I know he's not a top or above average DE. But having his presence for that veteran play would be beneficial for depth. He would be giving our ends a quick breather. Instead we are asking some big minutes out of our rookie and Rochell.

- I'm disappointed in Delpit. He was one of my breakout players. We have a lot of games in front of us, so players have plenty of time to improve / turn it around. But in your opinion, is it solely on he is just slow to react or do you think some of it has to do with overthinking b/c of inexperience and not just naturally reacting to what he sees?

I don't know all the answers, but it's football talk.

Point 1. Ward was dead wrong on that play. It actually concerned me that he would do that. I will add that our Edge guy did a poor job, as well. I can't remember who was in on that play.

Point 2. I thought we actually got some decent pressure on Herbert. He is very skilled w/his pocket presence. He almost always make subtle little moves where he slides up in the pocket or just off to the side to buy that extra half second of time. It was frustrating to watch, but that kid is a great young qb.

Point 3. Our LBers suck. They take horrible angles to the ball. Too weak to finish tackles. Their depth in the passing game is awful. I am very disappointed w/JOK right now because of all the hype.

Point 4. I don't know about Wino, but Thomas [my early pick as a situational pass rusher] and Rochelle are bad against the run. Like really bad. Not strong enough at the point of attack.

Point 5. I think Delpit plays hard and he is a good tackler when he gets his hands on you, but he is so slow to react in the passing game. It's frustrating to see how long it takes him to move. He will improve, but I don't think defending the pass will ever come close to being a strength.


Now, you have me all depressed.

haha, my bad.

Thanks for the answers.

Here, let me cheer you back up with some positives.

Berry's did a great job on the offensive side of the ball.

- They did a great job identifying a backup QB in Brissett. His leadership, team player, and play has done wonders for the offense. Ski and his offensive line has done a great job helping him with his play.

Think about this: The Steelers signed Trubisky and drafted Pickett. Trubisky went 3-4 games, then Tomlin decided to start Pickett....out of all teams to give him his first start is against the Bills. He ends up attempting 52 passes while running the ball 16 times... you know, all of this is a perfect recipe for a rookie QB in his first start. I know Trubisky wasn't lighting it up, but if Pickett starts bombing do you really go back to Trubisky?

- We lost our projected starting center Nick Harris. Berry drafted Deaton (who needed up on the IR), but also signed Pocic. Center was a question mark before the season started. Pocic has played solid, and we haven't talked about issues/ concern about our center position so far.

Think about this: How many teams can plug and play on the O-line like the Browns? Heck, on goal line we even use Froholdt as a full back.

- Berry brought in Cooper (which was basically a steal so far), Grant (sucks we don't get to see him this year), and Bell.

Think about this: We all were concerned about our receivers. Don't get me wrong an injury to one of our starters would cause for a big concern. But at this point in time, Cooper and DPJ has played well. This also helps getting Bell playing time but not being a main focus on the offense. So this takes some pressure off him to produce. Also...at this point in time, yea I keep reading about Schwartz on here. Well everyone else has been producing, so if the staff's thought is to keep having him learn on the job, then it's available (well, until it's not).

- Berry re-signed Njoku. He was all potential before the season.

Think about this: He's blocked well. He's been a solid to great player in the passing game. We are only five games in, but he's done a great job of catching and being reliable in the offense. Also to the last point: He's helped take pressure off our receivers since he's been a weapon.

Defense
I don't have a lot to add here

- Ward has played terrible, the positive is he's played great for the past few years. He can still turn his season around. Greedy should be coming back soon.

- Berry drafted Emerson, he's played solid for a 3rd round rookie.

- Berry drafted Newsome last year. He's played pretty solid so far.

- Berry just traded for Deion Jones, it wasn't a major pick and at least he's addressing the LB position.

Special Teams

- Berry signed Bojórquez. He has done well this year

Hope this helps

Thanks for bringing up the punter. Been meaning to mention how well I think he is playing. I was concerned when we signed him as a free agent, because Green Bay had horrendous special teams play last year. But he's been good for us.

Thanks Scott. Maybe you should put some of that in the Berry Fools Good [sic] thread? There are a lot of positives w/this team. Hell, I think the Chargers are one of the top teams in the league. And if York doesn't miss two kicks, we win the game.

Funny - the last two seasons we've lost a LOT of games where the kicker missed a FG or two - or maybe the D gave up 14+ points in the 4th Q. When it happened THEN it was an incompetent QB play and the blame was 100% Baker. Now that the guy despised by so many is gone, now we get the "excuses" that were unacceptable previously. Funny how that works.

This response wasn’t called for. I’m trying to have a conversation about our damn team.

Hey, sorry you feel that way. I have zero intention of and I do not believe I am stopping you from having your conversation with Vers.

Picture this, two people are having a good funny or positive conversation, a third hops in out of nowhere and says….hey, I heard your significant other cheating on u with your friend!

Does that conversation between the two stay the same? Or does the mood change because of it?

You may not believe it, but you are changing the whole dynamic/mood of the conversation.




MB

I don't think he was despised by all that many. Just like I don't think it is all that many who stick with the guy even today. It just dominates the conversation.

Talking about other posters has superseded talking about football. It's just a handful of posters who continually hijack threads w/their childish crap, but the board does nothing to stop them from doing it. It's why this place has went downhill and we've lost so many good posters.

Your analogy falls apart I am afraid. This is a public discussion forum - whatever and whoever posts a comment is going to get read and possibly a response from everyone and anybody. If you want to have a private conversation - I recommend a PM. Vers sends a lot of those and is very familiar.

You do it more than most - which is why so many respond to your outright hypocrisy.

I'm not trying to be disrespectful here but maybe you don't understand how message boards are supposed to work. They're open to comments from anyone who registers and is reading them. It's an open forum. It isn't a private conversation between two people. That's just how it works. They do give you a function that allows private conversations or even limited group conversations privately. It's the PM feature. Oh and believe me when I tell you people use the hell out of it! lol

I hope you find this helpful and that in the future you don't have unrealistic expectations about a message board in regards to expecting it to work in a way in which it was never intended to.

I appreciate the responses. Thank you for educating me.

Do you know why I put "MB" at the bottom of my post? Message board.

I already knew the basic default response(s) I would receive to my post. It was obvious. I didn't expect much value or respect to another in the responses.


"They're open to comments from anyone who registers and is reading them. It's an open forum." and add Mgh's response to my response: With all due respect, no random person Is commenting on them. 99% of the people making these comments are long time posters from either the McCoy or the Hatfield side.

I don't care who's right or who's wrong on either side. I know there will be conflicts, that's obvious and fine. I have made a few snide remarks in some of my past posts and I know I will do it in the future. So I am not perfect either.

I've been reading this and the official board for 20 years. I read other boards too. This isn't my first rodeo. The long time posters are who controls the flow of this board. So the environment COULD be less toxic. But the issue is the responses are "that's just the way it is"

Ok, I wasted my time long enough. I know where this is headed and nothing will change the mindset. No worries. Enjoy your day

It's amazing how many football conversations are ruined because a very small group turns the conversation into a personality contest. If they are challenged, they reply that it's an open message board and we are all free to post what we want. Of course, that changes if one posts on a topic they don't like. So, they attack again. In numbers. They cry that the topic should not be discussed because a certain player is no longer on the team. Then, they start an OBJ thread. LMAO.....they are hilarious.

And there you go. I thought you claimed you weren't reading them? And as per usual your post is drivel. But then you wouldn't know that since you actually didn't read the responses would you?

#footballtalk
#trolling


#ironyatitsfinest

Sorry you felt that way. Interesting or telling you choose to chastise and put down the two polite replies - and ignore the trolling by Vers. Again - your right to post and reply the way you want to.

My 2 cents is that any poster can post off topic.
But a thread only gets dere]ailed when others respond to that post
If we would only ignore those off topic post and reply with a football post ...

Cool.

Jester is a bully. He constantly stirs up crap in an effort to belittle others. He's part of a group that cares more about former players and roots for the failure of our team. Besides that, he hurts my feelings.

Your answer is to ignore all of that and respond with stats from the last game? Or you would be the one derailing the thread? Seems more like rewarding bad behavior... and outright lies.

All good. I'll be the bad guy. I've read his bs for over ten years. I've tiptoed and tried to play nice because I know how incredibly fragile he is. When he decided to make me the enemy (and endlessly whine about me, publicly), I was done. Sorry, not sorry.

"99% of the people making these comments are long time posters from either the McCoy or the Hatfield side"

I just generalized both sides. Both sides are guilty. I am not pointing a finger at one specific person. If i start calling out every dang name then another Holy Dawgy war will start.

I do not need to validate if I am on a someones side (i'm not). I respect posters on both sides.

I have nothing more to say. If you respond, I would prefer a Roger that and drive on.

Mahalo.

To be clear.......I have not asked you-or anyone--to take sides. I just know that this thread had developed into a series of football discussions and that 888 jumped in and made it about personalities. I read your response and decided to give my opinion on the bullies. Take a look at how many times 888 talks about me every single day. Multiple times a day. Pit does it a lot, too. Then Fate rushes in and acts like I started it.

With that aside, if those guys are going to get on you for talking to me and/or not joining in on the attacks, then I completely understand if you don't want to have football discussions w/me anymore. Lord knows I would not wish this constant harassment on anyone else.

And now for your reading pleasure, back to football.

I was going to let it go... but what a douche-baggery post. No-one got anyone for talking with anyone else.... Oh well.

He first claims he doesn't read these posts and then comments on what we say? Hmmm, sounds like he's either lying about not reading them or he's just making up lies about what is said. Either way.....

Let's move on - but there is without doubt a pattern of behavior: False claims, false assumptions ... hell even when he quoted a post the other day to try and prove his point he lied outrageously, copying a reply to someone who asked if Njoku was a bust after one game - having claimed that a poster had stated as fact Njoku was a bust after 1 game this season.... Can't keep your name or others out of his posts, bad mouthing you while never addressing you directly. Ey ey ey. Enough already - move on.

Why don't you guys just let Vers run his mouth? This IS getting ridiculous. PF and tailgate are almost unreadable these days. And you all know how I feel, but he's not worth ruining DT over. Period.

I thought he was referring to Lead's gameday posts. He always calls every player who has a bad play a bust. But six posts later after a positive play he will call them great. His posts actually reflect most of our inner feelings and stress as we watch this team try to eke out a win every damn week.