i need an explanation for the 1at quarter debacle.

25 carries the entire game, with watson having 6.

it's like stefanski forgot to run the ball. he literally just had watson throwing like he's been playing all season. the 1st quarter was so mind blowingly dumb that i knew we wouldn't come back to win, despite having plenty of chances to.

Given the amount of talent on this team it's mindboggling how bad we are. The lack of discipline, the penatlies, the playcalls..I can't see anyway to fix it other than a complete coaching overhaul from top to bottom. Bruce Arians, Shawn Peyton..call them now! give them whatever they want, we'll never have this much talent on our team again.

We are in good hands with Stefanski. The fire, passion, preparedness, and discipline the team plays with, especially in must win games, is there...he just doesn't have the talent to capitalize on his skill as a head coach. Next year we are going to soar.

Watson is on Pace to have 8.5 offensive touchdowns
NEXT YEAR.

We miss POCIC.....plain and simple

Next year doesn't exist imo, only this year.
They've told me next year since nineteen eighty nine.
Only this year matters.

This year, they are going to soar.

As long as they have Stefanski the sky is the limit.

j/c:

Amazing we are having trouble running the ball. Is it our O line and the opposing teams are just keying on Chubb?

Regardless, the game went about how I expected it to. Watson looked a bit better.

(sighs)

HA, irony.
next year doesn't exist, only this year.

Offense:
Deshaun Watson/Brisset(who had played amazingly well for a backup qb)
Nick Chubb/Kareem Hunt(the best running back duo in the NFL)
Amari Cooper
David Njoko

Defense:
Myles Garret
Jadaveon Clowney
Denzel Ward

How much talent is needed to at least best a .500 record??

Thusfar Watson looks like a square peg trying to be forced into a round hole. I know it will take a lot of time but the whole Offense has changed with no rhythm or identity. 4 more pre-season games for Watson.

Disregard my last post, I missed the sarcasm. LoL

22+ players of average talent plus an average coaching staff. Seems like we are not up to the formula level yet....

Perhaps we are getting too predictable and lacking 'variety' in our play calling. I felt sorry for Chubb today. Not enough carries and nowhere to go...

- The Browns managed to score an offensive touchdown.

- Finally get $230M QB and pull him out of the game on 4th and 1 to have Brissett throw deep ball to the corner of the end zone to kill a nice opening drive. Brilliant!

- The dinking and dunking brought back Brady Quinn memories.

- When does the elite QB start to elevate the play of those around him?

- The OL has been bad for awhile now. The Ethan Pocic loss was a big one. Going to want to sign him to a new deal.

- Hjalte Froholdt was getting absolutely exploited by the Bengals.

- Delpit getting duped on the flea flicker was par for the course.

- Deion Jones playing hot potato with the football was ill-advised.

- Nice game by Garrett.

- Cooper had only two catches on seven targets.

- Sloppy play and lack of discipline killed the Browns. 9 penalties for 98 yards. Smart. Tough. Accountable.

- On track for another double digit loss season.

- This team is a long way from true Super Bowl contention.

- Four more opportunities to slog through.

- Game balls: To all the fans that had the mental fortitude, sheer will and guts to watch this squad attempt to play the game of football from start to finish this afternoon. It was a grind.

The Bengals were without 2 of their top 3 WRs
Yet Burrow was able to convert 3rd downs
Chase did what he wanted to vs Ward.
The Browns had no answer today when it mattered
DPJ played a solid game but he still can't find
The end zone.

DJ Reader was a force all day. Maybe he caught Berry's attention
DTs can impact a game.

I didn't watch the game but it seems DW had a much better game and made a lot of progress from last week. Penalties were too many. The Bengals are the class of our division. They can play with and beat anyone in the league and we played them tough.

He's trolling us. I think.

My favorite part of the game was watching van pelt on the sideline doing what appeared to be nothing.

If he can't see how good Stefanski is get rid of him.

Next year we are going to soar.

j/c.

I cant even imagine this.

D played well in the first half. O - why go for it when you're within a chipshot field goal range? PUT POINTS ON THEY BOARD!

Our $230,000,000.00 man over 5 years? Playing like it should have been $23 million over five year. I don't care about "rust". Dude, you've had 2 years of availability and money to knock the rust off. Can't read a d. No excuse for being rusty at this point. 3 weeks of practice. Either the rust falls off, or it doesn't. Looking like it doesn't.

Chub - dude needs carries to get his mojo going. Yes, so often in the first half he doesn't do so well.......but dude ALWAYS comes on in the second half.

NFL - if Bogers crew is going to be a flag fest, why even risk injuries to players? Have the players stand off to the side and let the officials determine the game.

So, SO not impressed with our $230 million dollar qb. If this is what we sold out for, we'll suck for 4 more years, and mean while waste Chubb, Bitonio, Teller, etc.

Stefanski whining in his press conference. What a loser.

Losers always whine about doing their best. Winners go home and screw the prom queen.

Wait I forgot...next year we are going to soar. If you can't see how awesome Stefanski is, you don't know football.

Deshaun Watson passing and running =300+ yards of offense, our running game 40 yards of offense. Plus the the drive kiling penalties, getting duped on a flea flicker...etc. But Watson suck..math dont add up.

I wonder if the Stefanski fan club will.show up?
He really didn't coach with a sense of urgency today

Exactly Knight. Doesn't seem like DW was the biggest problem today and he played much better than last week. Let's see how much he improves in the next 5 games. The rest of the season is basically 5 pre-season games as far as I'm concerned.

He looked scared and nervous on the sidelines and in his presser. I hope behind the scenes he was put on notice that his job is in jeopardy.

The issue is the Browns will never be good with Haslam, his structure, and Depo. No one worth anything wants to work in that environment.

4 games....errrr...opportunities.

Yep, last season he played 4,800 yards passing on a team that went 4/12. Most talented QB that's ever suited up in a Browns uniform, anyone that say otherwise is silly. He's just getting warmed up, I just question this coaching staff can put it all together.

AKA..."We have to get better", "This one is on me" BS.

I agree and my mistake, 4 games left.

To you and Knight: I never said DW was the biggest problem. Although, a 62% completion rate got a different qb roasted on here. 79.1 qb rating. Not so great.

If I am not mistaken, he has 1 td, with 2 int's since he's been with the Browns - playing.

I will not, after 1 game - he's now had 2 by the way - buy into the "rust" thing, nor will I buy into the "not in shape" crap.

You signed a contract for $230 MILLION - no one prevented you from practicing on your own. NO ONE prevented you from getting in shape.

Look, folks, he's getting the money - maybe he ought to earn it...........no excuses. His excuses ran out. He doesn't get the rest of this year to figure it out.....I mean when the season is over, he'll have another 8 plus months where he's on his own............I don't buy excuses.

No. Unless not throwing into the dirt is progress.
He spent much of the first half to mid 3rd @uarter, deciding too early to make a bad move to step up in the pocket and give up on the pass to make noticeably bad pocket presence decisions which had almost no chance of becoming a good play, to the point of looking shell shocked and that he was going to abandon the play very early, tenths of a second after the snap.
The pocket wasn't there but, the O linemen couldn't possibly know where he was going to be
It must be hard to make a pocket if the @b couldn't decide where he wanted to stand, or step up, or step back, or step sideways even if there weren't pressure.

Why not?

yea i thought DW played better than expected. the int was bad because it was a late read but he definitely showed why he still has the ability to be a top 5 QB. he didn't drop those TD passes. and he didn't call the plays that had stefanski just abandon the run from the start of the game. i just don't get the playcalling today. no QB, watson or Brady, should justify Stefanski abandoning what is a top 5 rushing attack in the nfl.

Its that way every week, not just today.

No one expected Watson to be a world beater on his first game but he had roughly 120 yards offense against the worst team in the league to roughly 300+ yards on his second outing against the 12th ranked defense in the league. A repectable improvement in my opion and I have no doubt he will get better. As I have said he is the best quarterback this team has ever had and I stand behind that. He had a few bad reads today and missed oportunities but thats expected, your idea that since he is started we should be superbowl contenders is ridiculous. We have far more problems than QB play, Brissett has done better than I had ever hoped and yet we found ways to lose games in a way....well the Jets. But from watching today Watson was the only one who gave me any spark of hope. JMHO

How many TD passes did we drop today?

At least one, DPJ right into the chest.

I don't remember dropping any. Did we?

WINNING IS NOT A PRIORITY for those running this franchise...and that has been obvious since Berry REFUSED to invest in defensive help stop the run...and there was FA DT help available that Berry could have added.

For the Browns owner and his boys, this season has always been about Deshawn Watson and that won't change in the future, imo.

Lets see how that plays in the locker room...

And as the commetaters stated when the play was extended how our recievers just stand there after thier routes and not try to get open. We don't have killers on our WR corpse, Cooper maybe.

They didn't have Tee Higgins and Tyler Boyd went out on the first play of the game. And the Browns still gave up a deep touchdown broken coverage to a what's his name 4th or 6th depth chart guy.

Mac I agree about the DT help we could have AND should have signed but to me if you trade 3 1st round picks for a QB AND then sign him to an unprecedented 230-million-dollar contract WITH the baggage you knew he was bringing wouldn't that indicate winning is a big priority?

Well, maybe Higgins and Boyd have been teaching the other WR's!!

I've been saying this about Stefanski all season and it is usually met with incredulous indignation.

If KS priority isn't winning, then he shouldn't be our HC. Winning should be everyone's priority on the Browns.

It's Baker's Fault.... I've listened for years how Baker makes our OL worse. He's till doing it !

And, the DW led team, lost. Period.

I'm not a big stats guy, unless we're talking W's and L's. I know other things factor in to the record. I get it. Some don't though. DW played great? We lost. DW, played average? We lost. The team, if we're to keep things fair, is judged by the qb. So far, rusty DW has sucked. He can't put the team on his back.

Our O-line must need a little time to adjust to DW. We always need an adjustment period for everything sort of like the 1st 7 or 8 games for the D every season!!

I hope you are right. Everyone on this board does. But what he did 2+ years ago for a different team is of no use to anyone now.... by the beginning of next season dude needs to be playing like a top 5 QB or the whole move was a disaster.

The offensive line got it's rear end kicked today plain and simple.

Yes Watson was bad, but have we ever seen a game where Chubb averaged 2.5 yards per carry? I'm sure it's happened but it has to be just a handful of times. He simply had nowhere to run today. We lost this game with penalties and at the line of scrimmage.

j/c

Can't wait for the "other" thread later in the week - the one with the positive spin to tell us all what a champion we have as a HC .... after all we shouldn't get bogged down in patterns of [censored] play calling and games managed by Stefanski we should look at each game in isolation and I bet there are TONS of positives we should take away that none of you realized before.

What if he is top 7? Still a disaster?

The Browns run game has been really bad and it was bad again today. Getting yourself in second or third and long situations does not set a QB up for success.

He yelled at Tony Fields.

Never a similar post from you with Baker as QB.

Correct.

We'll be told how great the O played, and what a great game coach Stef called, and how great the Browns are...................while we lost.

F Kevin Stefanski. Don't even waste our time with a "post game Q&A". Just hand out the usual script to the reporters and call it a day. You are a clown that is basically stealing Haslam's money by misrepresenting yourself as an NFL head coach. Yes it is that bad and yes I am being serious. What a waste of talent by an organization that has no clue how to even organize itself. The front office BLOWS. The coaching staff BLOWS. I don't know how Haslam can continue to flush his money down this toilet. It has to be an embarrassment to him. I know it is to the City of Cleveland and Browns fans everywhere. It sucks being a Cleveland Browns fan. It really does.

They also commentated a couple of times that Watson had Wrs open but didn't throw the ball for whatever reason.

Just to beat a dead horse.....the OLINe misses POCIC

It is a bit funny to look at Baker’s numbers his first two years and Watson’s numbers his first two years. I am NOT saying we should have kept Baker and I am NOT saying Baker is as good as Watson. I just find them interesting.

Bingo! Best thing Haslam can do for the fans of Cleveland is sell the team. He, like his front office and coaching staff, is clueless. He simply doesn't know anything about running an NFL franchise. Someday I hope the Cleveland sports scene is littered with great ownership. Someday.

Because he is a Baker fan. Not a Browns fan. He invented excuse after excuse for Baker and is already trashing Watson. Who did not see that coming?

Probably ....

https://www.nfl.com/stats/player-stats/

Top 7 this year includes Cousins, Goff and a Jurassic Brady. And once you get outside of the top 3 you are starting to hit a plateau where you could argue several QB's a better than the others in that tier despite the W/L record and stats .... and the biggest guaranteed contract in history together with three 1st round draft picks doesn't meet expectations being "Good" or in a group of 'very good'

Hey Arch ... maybe I'm a knuckle head for not remembering but I never had you pegged as a huge Baker fanboy?? Were you?

I know. Thats why I asked.

(clears throat)

Well, this thread went south in a hurry.

Yeah. It gets really old encountering childish bickering in every thread I enter when I just want to read Browns fans' football insight. My 6-year-old twins behave better than what I often see here.

so one thing that was an eyesore was Ward getting torched all game. He had that one big hit on Chase, but overall he was bad.

but other than that, our defense did enough and created enough opportunities for us to win this game. us running into the punter was just horrible. but man i just dont like how we didnt commit to our run game. and then all the flags....come on stefanski damn.

Swish, I actually thought Ward played well. He had tight coverage against one of the very best WRs in the league all game long. Burrow made some incredible throws into tight coverage. I do understand that Chase's numbers were good.

So when will poster not to be mentioned face his/her time out??? Just asking the mods...

Same quote since week 2

j.C:

- Watson looked much, much better his second time around. Hopefully, he continues to progress at the same rate from game 1 to 2. That said, he holds the ball too long.....Not sure if that has always been an issue or if its getting back into the swing of things.

- The O line was trash for most of the game.

- Perrion Winfrey looked like he was disruptive on the interior. Clowney and Garrett had nice games.

- Not sure what the hell Deion Jones was thinking.

- Not a fan of the refs today.

- Wondering if Watson playing shotgun and the formation might negatively affect Chubb's production.

- Chase had a great game.

- That roughing the punter seemed to change the mood/momentum of the game.

- The team had way too many penalties. Ugh.

Our offense has really stalled. The OL is struggling and the run game is basically a shell of itself.

Watson was better, but still nowhere close to a franchise type QB.

Ward was Owned by Chase

Coaching decisions were head scratching

And the refereeing was giving Cincy points IMO

And once this is realized, folks can view the Browns for what they are and have been, a tragicomedy or a dark comedy if one is a true cynic.

The Haslams have not a clue of what they are doing nor have they identified the type of culture they wish to establish. They're simply guessing and throwing money around hoping that somehow, someway, they stumble across the magic formula.

homewood...here's the deal when discussing A TEAM SPORT...

It does not matter how much money an owner forks out for one player such as Watson..focusing on that ONE PLAYER and making him one of the highest paid QBs in the NFL...none of that will make the Browns a winner or a playoff contender. It takes everyone on the team contributing and playing to win if the Browns are serious about competing for the playoffs.

It takes an owner who is committed to "the team" over "individual players". Knocking the rust off his 1/4 billion dollar QB was more important than addressing the Browns defensive weaknesses...knocking off Watson's rust was a higher priority than the players goal of making the playoffs.

It's a matter of priorities in Cleveland...team goals take a backseat to individual goals, in Cleveland...jmo

The team sucks without Watson's rust.

I knew how this game was going to playout when I saw that STUPID 4th down pass by Brissett. CKS baffles me. Take the damn 3 points!

No, he doesn't let Watson run for it, he selects a cold QB off the bench to throw a low percentage pass.

The Browns is The Browns and another wasted season gone.

First and foremost, the Browns are a poor organization with a defeatist culture.

Second, the Browns are a really poorly coached team with a bottom 5 head coach and staff with a couple of outlier position coaches.

Number 1 leads to Number 2. It's really hard imagining a scenario where the Browns ever achieve consistent success as long as the Haslams are the owners. Depo is also a big problem. His fingerprints are all over this team. But that again goes back to Haslam for allowing it.

9, 6, and 5 years into Bitonio's, Garrett’s, and Chubb's careers ...flagship players at their positions...and they've got one playoff appearance to show for.it. That's a travesty. If Haslam moves forward with Stefanski next season he his giving his approval that incompetence is accepted. I fully expect Stefanski to be the coach next year.

Mac, you could be right. Maybe JH thought, because he was told, that all we needed was a QB like DW to make us legit contenders and he believed it. We all could see back in the spring after the draft we needed help at DT. If we could see it why didn't the people running the team see it. It certainly was more evident during the preseason games.

The 4th down call was simply a losing decision and execution. Just dumb

Stefanski's response to this in his presser was that TDs were going to be at a premium. No one followed up with the question of doesn't a first down still help you get a TD?

The similarities between Stefanski and Nagy are startling.

Doesn't prioritize winning.

It's every week with these bad decisions isn't it?

York was really (verbally) upset he didn't get a chance to kick FG's. He's got the passion and he knows he can kick it 65+ yards. Stefanski doesn't trust him yet.

Another reason Stefanski is a poor head coach. There was literally nothing to lose there going for it. Time would have expired during the kick. Fg or hail Mary?

Oh I know, Stefanski wanted TDs.

And if or when Haslam fires Stefanski, you're right back to Haslam, who is completely inept, ultimately responsible for hiring the next HC with J-Dubs riding shotgun. Neither of which have a clue or have identified what exactly they want and expect in a HC or FO. It's throwing darts at a dartboard.

Allow me to lay out the next few years for you knowing this franchise.

If Stefanski is retained:

2023: After a slow start, Stefanski is fired, an interim HC takes over and we have another lost season.
2024: It's a new HC and new scheme that the offense and defense have to learn. This will take some time. Another season wasted.
2025: Watson isn't Superman!, We don't have Cooper anymore, Chubb is gone, Myles Garrett is 30 now and Joel Bitonio a shell of himself at age 34.

If Stefanski is fired:

2023: It's a new HC and new scheme that the offense and defense have to learn. This will take some time. Another season wasted.
2024: We've got a new GM after Berry and company were fired. The new GM needs time to bring in his guys and we don't even have a first round pick.
2025: Watson isn't Superman!, We don't have Cooper anymore, Chubb is gone, Myles Garrett is 30 now and Joel Bitonio a shell of himself at age 34.

Fingers crossed success is somehow stumbled upon!

I know for sure Option A, Part 1 is going to happen so I choose Option B. At least there is some unknown there. Stefanski is a known at.this point.

You have laid out the REAL future. They all lead to the same places we have already been to before. Nowhere.

Negative vibes, SB, negative vibes......

Stefanski left 6 points (potentially 9 at the end of the half) on the board which would have made the game much different.

A 67 yarder? Same likelihood of success as a Hail Mary but with lesser potential benefit....

The Browns are what several teams in the NFL are. They are usually bad to mediocre. They occasionally make the playoffs. There has been nothing to lead us to believe that things are different than that. They are the Jets, Lions, Raiders, Texans. Yes, the Browns have some talent. Most, if not all, teams have some talent. The key is what they do with the talent along with how they add talent.

Give me a ray of hope then bb?

Define occasionally.

2002 and 2020. So it looks like we will make the playoffs again in 2038.

You are unreal. Completely. To say I'm not a Browns fan????? Pathetic.

No, better likelihood of success if you try the FG.

The penalties, though, they were killers. Field’s roughing them punter penalty changed the whole game. He has to be more aware. We played like a bunch of stupes today.

The call on 4th down at their 30 was stupid, especially since Brisset’s big weakness is deep throws. Once again, KS trying to get cute. I thought we should gave tried to run on 3rd and goal from the six late in the game. DPJ would have been OB even if he made that catch on 4th down.

I said last week we had to double- team Chase, but we didn't, so he did whatever he wanted. Our D overall wasn’t bad, the penalties hurt us more than anything.
Edit: oh, our OL was blown up today in the run game. Pocic was a big loss.

You drunk again?

After todays game I wish I was.

Watson looked better... team looked pathetic... 1st quarter 4th down call was idiotic... I don't mind going for it on 4th..... going for the TD made zero sense...

defense fell apart and couldn't contain the bengals... horrible penalties certainly helped Cincy... offense overall was pedestrian... had a few flashes but not much... our OL sucks....

The OL is allowing too much penetration up the middle, because Froholt needs help, due to his ill-suitedness to the C position.

yea man, our O line is definitely struggling. Chubb was getting hit in the backfield way too much.

I'm no KS apologist, but if you think they dump him before next year, I can't see it. I think he and DW get a pass this year, no matter what. And from the looks of things today, the FO, including ownership, is on the same page of letting us lose out if necessary to play Watson. And I can be okay with that without being happy about it. I hate wasted seasons. Some of the oldest posters on here don't have tons of seasons left to see an SB, and after all the years they've devoted to this team, they deserve more than what we've got this year. IMO the team was primed to go to the playoffs at minimum. And that feeling has only happened twice since the return for me, both during Mayfield's tenure, and both ended up being disappointing. This year and Baker's second season. I never thought DA would take us anywhere.

So I'll take the name-calling of "Fabulous Baker Boys," even if it feels like I was just insulted by a drag queen. I can just consider the source and the very small person behind it, so it means nothing. I like Baker, the person, and I don't care what anyone on here says because I have nothing to prove or anybody to impress around here, especially for DW Pimps. I've been keeping a relatively low profile when it comes to the DW/Baker dissing since DW was given 11 games. I try not to be too nasty about a guy I can't stand because others here are excited about him. Hell, I'm excited about him as well. There is no need to trash him, he'll be good or better for years once he gets back to form. And there's also no longer a reason to hate on Baker.

With all that, I realized there is one thing that might make Haslam fire KS this offseason, and that would be if Baker makes highlight reel plays, wins games, and turns it around for the rest of the season while we lose out. I could see Haslam losing it. Not Dee, just Jimmy. That would be too much for his ego.

Forgot about not even giving York a shot there at the end of the half. Outside of a block kicked return for a TD, I don’t really see the downside to trying? He’s touted for having such a strong leg and it was good conditions

I wish they would have let him kick, too, especially over a hail mary.

In the end that FG wasn't making a difference. Come on? Do you guys really think he was going to make it? He's struggled with extra points.

The blocked kick-six had to be in the back of their mind after having four kicks blocked already and knowing a low trajectory would be necessary on a 67 yard attempt.

Avoid a reason for a yakety sax moment when possible!

weren't we on the 50? that's what? a 65 yarder? He's long is 58 so far.. and he's 75% on field goals... we had a very slim shot at the Hail Mary... we had zero shot of Cade making a 60+ FG

Could have sworn I saw where he could kick 67-yard field goals because he did in practice or pregame warm-up one week. Of course, the odds would be low.

maybe... still think odds are better with a Hail Mary... ultimately didn't matter... defense couldn't stop anything today

The lineman gets half a step head start on the snap.

If that doesn't happen on the next play, it's holding... which a ref told Myles they weren't going to call.

I saw multiple times (again) where Myles was blatantly held. NFL officiating is what it is, but I felt like we got the short end of the stick again.

Along the same lines: I always get the feeling like Jerome Boger’s crew is really bad

Well the Offense scored a TD so I guess that's an improvement (sigh).. It's bad when you look for good and all you really find is bad.

Watson doesn't look like a $230 million QB.. Not yet at least. As it sits, this looks like a bad deal especially when you see Mayfield join the Rams and less than 48 hours later, he brings them back for a win against the Raiders.

I hate thinking this way, but I still hold out hope that Watson will get his act together. For me, he looked lost. He's not the only reason we lost, but he's a big part of it.

JC

Just take some deep breathes.

The playoffs were gone 4-5 games ago. It just hits now that it is pretty much official.

Other than making some changes on the coaching staff, D coordinator and possibly special teams, nothing is going to happen. At least outwardly. Some changes may be made in our internal approach.

Next year is the year of reckoning. A slow start dooms the coach. The GM probably follows with a lethargic season.

We are sort of stuck at GM. Until we get to where we get a 1st rounder after the next draft, we might be hindered in hiring a new GM until 2025.

It was putrid the way the refs taking over that game. They weren't favoring either team, but they were throwing a flag every other play. A LOT of ticky tack calls. And they looked so excited to do it, like they were competing against each other. It was almost nauseating.

I don't get the angst over not attempting a FG at the end of the half. It would have been a 68 yard attempt w/a kicker who has been anything other than reliable.

Our schedule next year as of right now:

Home: BAL, CIN, PIT, JAX, TEN, AZ, SF, NE, CHI
Away: BAL, CIN, PIT, IND, HOU, SEA, LAR, DEN

This season has always been about NEXT YEAR...ever since the boss man spent 1/4 billion on a QB who was suspended for most of this season.

What Browns fans see on the football field is a direct reflection upon those in charge, starting with the owners and it trickles down to the people ownership hires to run the team as Jimmy wants.

What I witnessed yesterday was a Browns team that was very poorly coached and not ready to play the Bengals. Makes me wonder what the hell Stefanski and his coaching staff actually do to get the team ready play.

A few big things that prohibited us from a chance to win:

- Penalties
- The decision/lack of execution on the 4th down play to DPJ
- Our OL
- Our lack of adjustments to the game: no Higgins or Boyd yet we still single cover Chase?!

Like I said...This season has always been about NEXT YEAR...ever since the boss man spent 1/4 billion on a QB who was suspended for most of this season. Knocking that rust off is more important to ownership, management and the coaching staff than getting your team ready to win a game against the Bengals.

What Browns fans see on the football field is a direct reflection upon those in charge and their priorities, starting with Jimmy and it trickles down to the people Jimmy hires to run his team.

What we all witnessed yesterday was a Browns team that was very poorly coached and not ready to play the Bengals. Stefanski was OUTCOACHED by wide margin and it really showed up in the way the Bengals had their players ready to play vs the obvious lack of preparation by Stefanski and the rest of the coaching staff.

It's amazing that agenda posting like this is never challenged. Stefanski has outcoached Taylor over and over and over. The difference was how the players on both teams played. But, we don't want to talk about actual football plays. We want to talk about subjective evaluations where we call for people to be fired. Then again, firing people has worked out well for this franchise.

Actually he hasn’t struggled with extra points. He is ninth in the league in XPA and tenth in XPM. His percentage seems to not be great but that is due to the fairly high number of attempts. His field goal percentage is fairly low vs other kickers but that is impacted by number of kick attempts as well as, more than likely, length of attempts.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/play...ble/kicking/sort/fieldGoalsMade/dir/desc

My buddy was at the game yesterday...he's one of those guys who gets there crazy-early to watch warmups. He texted immediately after the non-field-goal to state that York was drilling 65 yarders in warmups with ease. The TV camera showed York on the sideline lobbying to go in and kick. I'll bet 'ole Ski had no idea what York was making pre-game.

Why bother testing your FG distance when the HC is a clown who doesn't know what you are capable of that day?

This is the “what have you done for me lately” situation. Stefanski’s issues started with last year. He was dealt a bit of a crappy hand this year due to the suspension. That being said I would agree that he has made questionable decisions this year. Individual football plays are both irrelevant and relevant. If they work then Stefanski made a good call. If they do not work then Stefanski made a bad call. The players have to execute the plays that are called while their opponents are attempting to prevent success. The question becomes choice of plays in situations as well as sub-surface issues including whether or not Stefanski has “lost” the team. Personally, I do not think that there are more than an extremely small handful of players that “don’t try”. Football is too dangerous to take such a position. I do grant that some may not try as hard due to what they perceive as slights or as coaching issues.

The bottom line is Stefanski will not be fired, imo, this year. He will also likely be HC next year. Like all HCs he gets more credit than he should and more blame than he should. That being said it is entirely possible that HC is his level of incompetence. Not all coordinators should be head coaches.

And if York missed his kick, people would be whining about Stefanski making a dumb call to go for an almost 70-yard FG. You can bank on that.

The Hail Mary was a really good throw....it just didn't land.

The agenda post is coming from you. Your agenda retort is that Ski beat Taylor IN THE PAST. You are kidding, right? Did you even watch the game yesterday?

In the 13th game of the year...we blew through timeouts like a teenager driving through a stop sign. We had (9) penalties...that were accepted. The utter lack of discipline is astonishing. Two Bengal TD drives were kept alive by stupid penalties.

We had two plays that should have been challenged for the spot that were clear 1st downs...but the waitress was coming, so Ski's head was in his Waffle House menu...no challenge.

There's no steering wheel...no rudder...just a talented, beautiful ship floating in the water with no direction and no purpose.

And if York made the kick we'd have a new NFL record...and (3) points. As I stated, he was making 65 yarders in warmups with ease...did Ski even know that? Hell, I'm more interested in knowing whether Ski actually KNEW about the warmup distances than I am the decision that was made.

You need to add some Olinemen to that list.

I maintain that if you watch enough football and not just the Browns but really watch games across the league, you can have a reasonable pulse on what you are seeing. You also have to be able to remove emotional bias, something a lot of fans on this board struggle with. I think a lot of that is because they only watch the Browns.

I'm not sure where the agenda was in the post you quoted. We are watching a poorly coached, poorly prepared, poorly in-game adjusted team on a weekly basis. And when Stefanski calls good plays that his team doesn't execute instead of recognizing they aren't working, he keeps calling them hoping for a different result...then looks completely flabbergasted in his post game pressers about what went wrong. For an ivy league guy I'm not sure we've had a worse coach at in game adjustments than Stefanski. It's why when the Browns trail we can't comeback. He operates under the assumption that his plays will work and set something up for later that he's completely lost when it fails.

It's not working with him and the Browns wil regret giving him another year.

Reality bites...but Stefanski is the Head Coach too and he DID NOT have his team ready to play against the Bengals yesterday.

Stefanski's ability to show any imagination in his preparation of a game plan...seems to have disappeared. Also, Stefanski's ability to get his team ready to compete at an NFL level took a vacation yesterday.

Stefanski is beginning to look like a coach who is simply "burnt out"...

Attempting to do "double duty" might have caught up with KS and yesterday might have been an indication that he needs to focus on either OC or HC..but not both coaching responsibilities.

From The Athletic...

Defensive players I spoke with were annoyed at the lack of help Denzel Ward and the other corners received handling Chase. I already wrote a couple of weeks ago about how several defensive players are upset with defensive coordinator Joe Woods’ scheme. This showing isn’t going to help. 

After Tee Higgins tweaked his hamstring in pregame warmups and Tyler Boyd left early with a dislocated finger, Chase still managed 15 targets, 10 catches, 119 yards and a touchdown. Burrow didn’t target any other Cincinnati receiver more than twice and yet the Browns couldn’t bother to send safety help in his direction.

To add to the scheme concerns/issues, does anyone have data on the type of defense we run, namely zone vs. man %?

I feel like Ward and Newsome are at their best in the latter, yet, using the former far more. I know it's not that basic a breakdown, but I feel like we're suppressing strengths of our players.

Through week 12.

Great info!

Interesting numbers and it is what I suspected.

For anyone else wondering about week 6 and the 47% man coverage. That was VS the Patriots and a spanking giving up 38 points

Browns need to draft a DJ Reader

This.

Losing the Jets game (which was in-hand), the Chargers game (which was in our grasp), and the Baltimore game (which was winnable) is what sealed the season. As peen said, it is pretty much a given now, but we've been out of it for a while.

This season has gone the way a lot of our games have. Missteps early on put us in a position later where we cannot make any mistakes in order to be successful. Right now we are not good enough to overcome ourselves.

This is troubling.

The D has been troubling all year. We need a new DC. Case closed!! What more does anyone need to see or hear?

Fair enough.

And both points are valid (probably true).

But I seriously doubt any defensive player called out Ward by name. The players' frustration with the entire defensive showing and subsequent comments in regards to that frustration might, just might, be deflection. Not sure of your assignments or tackling?......blame Woods.

Woods will be gone after the season - as well he should be.

Maybe The Athletic has the true inside info? Could be.

Again the question reverts back to scheme or execution.

I don't know.

You'll excuse me if I don't get all excited and jump up and down about the improvement because we got a couple hundred yards of garbage time offense and a cheap TD after being down by 3 scores because in 3 full quarters we had mustered up just one FG.

You'll also excuse me if I don't get all sympathetic about dropped passes, ill-timed penalties, and highly questionable playcalling..... Baker had all of the same issues and got 0 sympathy.. so the $230 million solution will get the same amount of sympathy.

j/c

I did not see the game, but instead watched NFL Game Day on the NFL Network. It's nothing like watching the game itself but does give you all of the highlights and scoring drives. Then you have statistics to give you at least something to compare with what you saw. I had a feeling this game would go the way it did so I didn't bother going to BW-3's to watch it.

There is no doubt that watson certainly improved over last week. And no matter how much people claim otherwise, practice and studying film in NO WAY simulates playing an actual games. It just doesn't. So people can throw all of the tantrums they wish, I think everyone who has played the game knew that there would be rust and that getting back up to game speed would be a process. In week 2 he looked better than week 1 so that process is under way. After almost two years out of the game nobody can accurately predict if he will be what he was before in totality. The int. was a terrible read but once again, that is to be expected with all of the rust.

It was obvious the Bengals concentrated on stopping the run and trying to force watson to beat them. That would seem like the best strategy they could have employed until watson has proven he's knocked off the rust. The OL certainly wasn't able to overcome that. watson is holding the ball and is hesitant but that too is from the rust.

After three halves of the O not being able to find the end zone, they finally found it in the second half. Once again all people can do is hope that's something that can be built on. I was puzzled why Stefanski put Brissett in the game when the Browns got down to being on the edge of the red zone and called that pass play. I think he outsmarted himself on that one. It would seem as though if you're trying to acclimate watson this is certainly a point on the field you would want him in the game.

Once again one of the Bengals TD's came from a blown coverage and I did find it alarming how well Burrows was able to pass the ball with two backup WR's in the game. I think the results may have been much worse had T. Higgins and Tryler Boyd remained healthy for the entire game but that's something we will never know for sure.

The Bengals were able to run the ball pretty well but I think we all know why at this point.

Edit to add; The toss and run for the TD to Njoku gave me the impression that Njoku had the drive and will we want to see form all of the Browns players. My game ball to Njoku. He looked focused and hungry.

I agree 100% - and I believe that while there is accountability to go around (Berry, KS, Woods, Priefer)..... ultimately the biggest slice of accountability needs to land on Stefanski's shoulders: He is the damn Head Coach. If he aint responsible what is the freaking point of having "Head Coach" ...

Bottom line - instead of this season getting better as the season moved along and as Watson returned -- it has gotten worse, the cracks and fissures more apparent and the magma below is glowing and visible for all to see.

Did you forget to put that in purple? Every week, excuse after excuse would be trotted out about dropped passes, horrible OL play, scheme, WRs running wrong routes, receivers not getting separation.

Now, all of that talk has magically vanished.

You are killing it today. If Watson looked any better yesterday it was in comparison to how terrible he looked last week. So...he wasn't terrible yesterday...but he was light years away from being good...or even average.

McVay got a trash QB up-to-speed in 48 hours...Shanahan got Mr Irrelevant up to speed during a game...Goff is looking like a 1st Rd pick again...Hurts was 'meh' at best until he got a new/real HC...Tua looks like a real NFL QB after they hired a history teacher to run the show back in Feb. Different styles...same positive results. Why can't we do the same?

His post was deleted, but he was not suspended. Tells you all you need to know about the state of the board and at least one of the refs.

A 67 yard FG? Actually historically they are not. NFL kickers are 2-41 all time in FG attempts 65 yards or longer. Just less than 5% of the time.

https://www.google.com/search?clien...ld+goals+longer+than+65+yards+in+the+nfl

And actually, after looking at it, the odds of a Hail Mary working are better.

As of 2019 the Hail Mary pass has worked 9.7% of the time.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27951311/the-evolution-hail-mary-perfect-throw-how-defend-it

It would seem as though the Hail Mary has nearly twice the odds of success. I found that quite surprising myself.

The Browns were 4-7 when watson began starting. Claiming the Browns gave up on the season with a QB who had culminated a 4-7 record makes no sense at all... to anyone.... but you it seems.

Since watson started the Browns are 1-1. .500. A better winning percentage than before watson took over.

Maybe you should build your own sandbox instead of trying to tell others how to run theirs.

Rish, I think you know that I watch a ton of games. I post about multiple games each and every week in the Other Games threads. I have said that I have 3 TVs going on both Saturdays [NCAA games] and Sundays.

I also can remove the emotional bias. I have been very critical of many Browns since 2000 or 2001 when I first joined the Browns board. I prefer talking about players and scheme. I think all the coaching/GM talk is pretty lame. None of us are more intelligent about the game of football than those guys are. I also was a coach and I feel that I know what I am looking at far more than many others on here. You did not see me defending the likes of Freddie, Chud, Romeo, etc on here at the end. I didn't go after those guys, but their teams either quit playing for them [Chud and Romeo or were a complete mess w/terrible decisions [Freddie.]

I really don't want to argue w/you. I feel you are dead wrong about Stefanski. I think he is a very good coach and it's similar to when board members turned on Shanny in favor of freaking Ray Farmer. However, I respect your opinion. You don't resort to constant insults and telling outright lies daily. I just feel that we disagree. No big deal and opposing opinions are a good thing. I'm just replying to tell you that your argument isn't going to convince me that Stefanski is a bad coach. I will change my mind when he changes my mind. That's all.

Comparing Shanahan to Stefanski should be illegal when in a discussion comparing NFL coaching.

We definitely need a Reader type DT

yea and that's always been the biggest issue i have with berry. it's almost as if he's ignored the defensive interior completely. we need a real disrupter atleast eats double teams and forces the QB into the arms of garrett or clowney. but we are pathetically soft in the middle, not to mention our LB's aren't big enough to make up the difference.

Reader was in the QB camera angle more than DW was.

And a coach or coordinator who will make damn sure you nullify the opposing Team's Pro Bowl WR, especially when they are playing 2nd and 3rd string WRs. Chase should have been doubled almost every passing play. Inexcusable.

5 wins with leshaun qb teams.
Stefanski should be fired for going from a 12 win team to 5 wins
With leshaun.
A blind mouse could average more than that with 7 probowlers
Plus the coach of the year.

Just curious - was this in reply to my post asking a question about your sobriety? I mean, you called ME a Baker fan boy, and NOT a Browns fan. The TRUTH of the matter is exactly the OPPOSITE of what you stated. Period.

Here are all the PFF grades from yesterday's effort.

Offense: Number of snaps in parentheses

Deshaun Watson: 56.8 (71)
Nick Chubb: 56.9 (45)
Kareem Hunt: 56.6 (28)
Donovan Peoples-Jones: 63.0 (72)
Demetric Felton: 55.6 (9)
Michael Woods II: 54.5 (15)
Amari Cooper: 54.4 (62)
David Bell: 52.8 (49)
David Njoku: 63.1 (69)
Pharaoh Brown: 57.0 (2)
Harrison Bryant: 56.1 (8)
Jack Conklin: 64.8 (72)
Jedrick Wills Jr.: 60.5 (72)
James Hudson: 60.0 (1)
Joel Bitonio: 58.0 (72)
Wyatt Teller: 57.0 (72)
Hjalte Froholdt: 43.7 (72)

Defense: Number of snaps in parentheses

Myles Garrett: 92.3 (51)
Jadeveon Clowney: 90.1 (47)
Alex Wright: 49.9 (32)
Isaiah Thomas: 29.7 (18)
Taven Bryan: 78.5 (33)
Perrion Winfrey: 71.9 (35)
Jordan Elliott: 60.2 (41)
Ben Stille: 50.3 (8)
Deion Jones: 78.7 (59)
Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah: 64.3 (54)
Tony Fields II: 62.0 (11)
Jordan Kunaszyk: 45.5 (12)
A.J. Green: 62.7 (3)
Greg Newsome II: 58.7 (65)
Martin Emerson: 55.2 (56)
Denzel Ward: 41.3 (65)
John Johnson III: 45.7 (61)
Ronnie Harrison: 42.6 (19)
Grant Delpit: 42.3 (67)

aye man....

i wouldn't be mad if we trade Ward for whatever we could. he hasn't shown up all year.

True Story: As we walked back to our car following “The Drive”, some guy shouts “Next Year!” My dad “We’ve been saying next year for 22 years!” - That was in January of 1987, about 36 years ago. Which means that we’ve been saying next year for 58 years. There are people who will die of old age before next year gets here. Unthinkable.

I turned 65 this year. I've been a Browns fan since I was 10. I don't believe in next year anymore. I'm starting to run out of time. The Red Sox went 84 years between World series titles. That means some Sox fans went their whole lives and never saw them win one. It's starting to look more and more that it could happen to me.

I’ve been a die-hard Toronto Maple Leafs fan since I knew what hockey was, when I was around five.
I was 17 days old when they last won the Cup back in ‘67, and sometimes I wonder if I’ll live to see one. Now that I’m 55 the clock’s running out.

I've been a ST. Louis Blues fan since 10. I finally got to see them win the Cup after 52 years and what made it so sweet was them beating the Bruins in Boston game 7. It will never get better than that!! I still couldn't believe it happened one month later!!!

I hate Boston and I know a couple long-time Blues fans, Belated congrats!

I went thru quite a few years watching the Dead Wings until they finally put it together in '97. There were a few fun seasons with Probert, Kocur and Klima.

This is what passes for a hockey thread, lol.

Not that Berry was involved at the time, but Danny Shelton was supposed to be our version of Haloti Ngata or Casey Hampton, and look how well that turned out

Thanks Lamp appreciate it!!! Hey, I just got a great idea!! Since we can't seem to find enough good football players maybe we can see if we can find some hockey guys to come play for us. Heck, they can't be any worse than some of our draft picks!!

I have said that for some time. The problem is we probably wouldn't get many takers.

The good news is Winfrey has done a pretty decent job on the field. The bad news is he’s not always on the field because of off the field lol

What is the most significant thing about Mayfield last year that you absolutely refuse to recognize? Hint: You left it out ^ again. The major thing that in its continued absence from your commentary highlights your agenda? Hint: It occurred in the first half of Game #2 last year.

The things you mentioned ^ most certainly happen(ed) to Watson in his short time here...and with this HC running the team and this FO "acquiring" "talent" they will likely continue. Our receivers still drop passes, our OL has been overrated for a long time now (not just this year and specifically our OTs), our scheme and direction is still that of an OC playing HC who is in over his head, our WRs still don't get separation (other than for the guy who wasn't even here last year)...the WR who ran his own routes cancer-ed himself off the team...it's hilarious that you now want those "excuses" applied to Watson yet not to his predecessor. BTW...those ^ things are not - and were not - excuses...they are reasons...observations...problems...they are not some conspiracy against you and your glaring agenda to be seen as the arbiter of all things football and your need to be seen as "right" about Mayfield...which absolutely no one GAS about.

There was one Baker Fanboy here...he left the Board awhile back...there is one, True Baker Hater who consistently and purposefully leaves out a glaring fact that contributed to Baker's struggles last year...and a whole bunch of other people who who see/saw the good, the bad and the contributing factors...ALL of the contributing factors...that led to failures at QB last year.

He is clearly the best DT on the team (for whatever that is worth)...yet our crack coaching staff could only see the immaturity (which I'm sure there was/is plenty) and there is zero leadership to steer a guy like Winfrey in the right/better direction.

I mean, we can pretty much scrap our entire DT group and start fresh. And as soon as clowney is gone, we are extremely screwed on the DL too as teams will focus solely on MG

Yeah, that injury is why he is at the bottom of the league in every meaningful stat this year.

j/c:



Which one of you misfits is this guy? Come clean.

This is an incomplete argument to say the least.
I would say that most on this board would agree that JB played at a much better level than his record shows.

I was unable to address this last week, but it comes down to opinion.

I agree with Mac that starting JB should have been looked at going into the Bengals game. IMHO JB gave the Browns the best chance to win that game. That is after seeing DW at HOU. I definitely would have made the switch to DW once CLE was eliminated from the playoffs.

If you agree that JB would have given the Browns a better chance to win but would have still started DW, we will agree to disagree. The Browns are a competitive team in a league where there are not many above average teams, play to win the game. It is the NFL and nobody on this team believes they are rebuilding. If JB gives you the best chance to win, you start JB. Now that the Browns are eliminated, I can see the argument to get DW the needed reps. But to in essence give up on the playoffs when you are alive does not make sense to me. And many players in that locker room should feel the same way. If they did, you would see a significant drop off in effort. I have not seen that as of yet.

Lol i love that

I like him diving back into the White Claw at the end like everything is A-OK.

At 4-7 your odds of making the playoffs are very remote. I think it's a moot point to try and claim you're giving up on the playoffs with a 4-7 record.

Said no one ever...as is usual with your comments about the words of others.

but we were 5-7 going into the Bengals game and had just witnessed how bad DW was.
Most years even at 4-7 you would be correct, however the NFL is down this year. just look at the NFC ugh.

In the AFC, it looks as if there are 3 teams that are legit SB contenders, one of which we beat convincingly.
The cream of the AFC is BUF, CIN & KC.
I feel MIA is all by themselves as just outside the top 3, BAL would be here but their QB situation is dire and I look for them to come back to the pack.

TEN probably limps into the playoffs due to how bad the division is, but they are not a good team right now, having lost 3 in a row the latest to JAX.

Anything can and has happened in this league, I do not understand the lost season mentality when so many teams are bad.

As of now, CLE is still in the playoff hunt, but after last week those chances took a hit.

I do not know if JB would have done enough to get the W, but after the HOU game, I am shocked so many fans, threw in the towel when JB had done a solid job leading this team up to this point in the season. Worst case scenario, JB looks bad and DW comes in at half. Best case scenario, JB plays as consistent as he did prior to week 12 and we beat the Bengals a 2nd time this year. and significantly improve our playoff chances at 6-7 as 7-6 right now can put you in a position to get in the playoffs.

I understand the playing DW now, if CLE was out of the playoff picture. but that was not the case. We were lucky to have the opportunity for DW to return against the worst team in the NFL. But when the results were what they were, no shame in giving him time to get back into game shape and be able to catch up with the game speed while JB continues to hold down the spot.

No matter how I spell it out, many of you will not care about wasting opportunities to win games, but would rather give DW any chance possible to show his worth. I understand that point, but I do not agree. This is the NFL and 52 other players bust their a$$es to win on Sundays, and I would expect many of those players would like to be put in the best position to win. From what I saw against HOU, DW did not give the Browns the best chance to win.

I believe it is RISHUZ that called out KS and the coaches priority to winning. I like many scoffed at this assumption, but as the year goes on, winning has not seemed like a priority to these coaches and it is mind boggling to me.

So the team was 4-7 with Brissett as the starter and are 1-1 with DW as the starter and this is an argument you still continue to make?

Last time VERS jr. your argument is flawed. lets look at team record but not statistics.

Then can you explain how badly DW played against the Bengals? Because that's not the way it appears to me. He threw for not only a higher percentage than Burrows, he threw for more yards while under consistent pressure. For someone who would rather throw insults than actually look at the game DW played, it sure seems as though your frustration level is high.

I think DW played better than he did vs the Texans.
I don't think he outplayed Burrow. Burrow did more with less.
No Boyd Hurst or Higgins. Yet he engineered 23 points and a win
How would have DW done if he didn't have DPJ Njoku or Cooper. ?
DW had a high completion % cause late in the 4th Q
The Bengals were giving him open zones to throw into
To keep the clock moving

pit is right. we were 4-7 when DW took over.

we all knew the playoffs were remote possibility because we would have to win out. there is no controversy at the QB spot because we DIDNT have a winning record. obviously JB played really well, but unfortunately since this is a team sport, 7 losses meant our chances of making the playoffs were slim to none no matter who started.

but this actually goes back to why i'm so upset with woods and the defense. so NOW they are actually trying. im sorry but i can be the only one who has noticed how night and day the defense has been the last 3 games compared to the first 10. it's like they only decided playing like this once DW was back in the building, which leaves me to seriously question whether or not they intentionally BS'd the first 10 games. real leadership on the defensive side of the ball, from the players and coaches, wouldn't have me questioning effort and laziness right now.

especially Jets, Falcons, and Chargers. those are 3 games were you can blame the D completely for the L's. we'd be 7-5 after this cincy lost with DW, still in good position to make the post season.

IMO, there is a ton of logic in that ^. DW wasn't as bad as he was against HOU...but we were not a threat to win that game and DW did not play well enough to beat the Bengals. That doesn't mean he won't someday...but he wasn't on Sunday.

Reminds me of myself on most Friday nights. Lol. - But I drink at home, not like that in public. I would hope someone helped that guy to where he needed to go after the game Either that or helped him sit down.. he is seconds away from either face planting or fall to either side. - I’m assuming that this video was taken in the 4th qtr. If this was early in the game, zero chance that he didn’t pass out before the game was over.

The best part was when he came to he went right for the beer. Classic.

Looks like this dude has been at it for awhile! I found a fan made video of him on YouTube.

This guy better get a NIL agent.

I still wonder what would have happened if we had won just 2 of those games, probably the Jets and Chargers, which were won until we totally collapsed. We would have gotten to Watson's return at 6-5 and well within playoff contention instead of 4-7.... Wonder if the staff would have done anything different. I know you don't give up what we gave up for Watson to have him watch from the bench but if he comes in and plays the way he has on a playoff team... the fan reaction would be very different.

Fueled by the camera reaction of York, who clearly wanted the chance. Plus, we've been hearing all year how he has kicked it over 70 yards in warm-ups and I think some people just wanted to see if he could make it. Would it have been the smart football play? I don't know, doesn't seem any dumber than throwing it 30 yards into the corner of the endzone on 4th and 1 in the first quarter from the 25 with your back-up QB making his only throw of the day.

I think a FG would have been dumb, but hard to argue that point lol.

KStef calls at least one or two of these head-scratchers every game.
They drive me nuts when we do it.

When K.I.S.S. is called for, we go exotic. Teams on the margin can't afford to waste plays like these. Our windows to victory are too narrow.

Sitting behind that lunatic would get real old after about 2 minutes.

How is drinking to that level of intoxication fun? Is he enjoying the game? How is he getting home? Will he remember the game or is he just there to drink?
I’m so over alcohol and how it makes people behave. It’s gross.

Alcohol causes more deaths thank fentanyl. Yet its part of the social norm and shoved in our face where ever you go and on the tv.

True. It put my liver in a bad way before I quit.

That said, alcohol usually takes years for the impact to happen while with fentanyl it can happen pretty darn quick.

Fentanyl is so potent you'd have to drink ten times the lethal amount of alcohol to even be in the ballpark of apples to apples. Personally, I dislike both. I've seen too many good people become alcoholics and far too many souls just lost to opiates. And don't forget alcohol can kill immediately, too, drinking and driving especially. You can die of alcohol poisoning, drug interactions, and I'm sure the risk of death increases by simply being inebriated.

Drink up!! We won the bloody football match!!!

Oh, wrong thread / forum