As Fate noted in another thread, a lot of the sites have assigned a lot of high grades to all the teams. This one is pretty good, but it is long. Thus, I will just post the link.

https://www.nfl.com/news/2023-nfl-draft-final-quick-snap-grades-for-all-32-teams

I have a couple of thoughts on the draft.

I really like what Philly, Seattle, Houston, and Pittsburgh did early on. I don't know enough about the draft to evaluate the picks that came later on. I also have to add Philly getting Swift for next to nothing from Detroit. Speaking of Detroit.....I thought they blew it early on. Big time. Not wild about what Dallas or the Jets did early on.

Regarding the Browns. I have been critical of Berry's drafts in the past. I started this thread a couple of years ago and was very negative. I think he did a much better job this year. I like Tillman, McGuire, Mitchell, and Wypler. I have never seen Ika play, so I don't know. I wasn't wild about Jones at OSU, but I recognize that he has potential. Callahan is the guy who could unleash that, but I'm hesitant on this pick. Thompson-Robinson is a guy I said we might draft awhile ago. I can see him being our #2 as soon as next year. I also have to include [like I did w/Philly and Swift] the fact that we used draft capital to acquire Elijah Moore and help in the Watson trade.

Thoughts...?

I was going to start a thread but decided to enter it here. How do you rate the draft?

For me, 2 grades have to be given seeing that we didn't pick until the 3rd round.

Based on who we took and when we took them, I'd give it a B+. I know some were miffed at the QB selection, and I understand why, so that takes it down a bit. Everybody else seems to be pretty solid and about as good as we could have done.

If looking at it from a overall standpoint as compared to other teams, not have a 1st or 2nd rounder has to drop the Grade to a C+. When you don't have a couple of top 60 players, the grade has to go down.

I will say getting Moore could be viewed as a mitigating factor. He is a solid addition, but he wasn't "drafted", so I can't count him in as such.

Overall I think we did a nice job of filling a few voids and drafting the best players we could. The OSU guys look like they have a chance to be pretty good players a few years down the road. Our first two picks look like they can contribute from the get go.

In the end, I can't complain considering the starting point.

I put this thought in the Draft Day thread.

IMO Elijah Moore is our second round pick. He is the same age as Tillman.

I think he will have the biggest impact on the roster as a new player.

I like Tillman. The Browns are in the process of transitioning to a passing offense.

Ika is a Schwartz pick. He is a run stuffer.

Hope for the best with the rest of the picks.

I’m low on the “expert” list here, but I think we had a decent-to-good draft. I like they OSU center pick and think the CB from Northwestern has some appeal at his draft slot.

Don’t love the Tillman or DT selections. I think Tillman seems slow and unable to separate, which has been our issue at WR. And the DT seems lazy which is not a good trait.

Last year the MJ Emerson pick was panned. He was worth the choice.

Everyone is a draft day guru. You won’t know until 3 years if the pick or draft was good.

I would expect nothing more than a C grade after the Watson trade and Moore trade. So be it.

1 more year of purgatory, until the Watson trade is done. I hope it was worth it..

Without 1st and 2nd round picks - hopefully we found some value with the picks we did make. It seems like we filled out the roster at some important positions. It seems like the guys we have picked in later rounds will have a chance to sit and develop and have the potential to contribute. I loved the reaction of Schwartz when we got Ika. I never saw Tillman play before the draft but I like everything I see since.

But much like any draft - come back in 3 years and we'll know. Maybe it should be a standing tradition to have a review of the draft from 3 years prior every time we have a draft?

2020 Draft class:

1 #10 -- OT Jedrick Wills, Alabama
2 #44 -- S Grant Delpit, LSU
3 #88 -- DL Jordan Elliott, Missouri
3 #97 -- LB Jacob Phillips, LSU
4 #115 - TE Harrison Bryant, Florida Atlantic
5 #160 - C Nick Harris, Washington
6 #187 - WR Donovan Peoples-Jones, Michigan

Yeah no better than a c. Pretty much the same as any other year, considering our first rounders are usually a bust.

I loved the draft to be honest and I was expecting to walk out of day 2 in total disappointment but we get 4 players I had in the 30 to 50range, with no first and 2nd round picks. Now they are a bit higher risk but they could be high reward.

Jones I had as 30 on my board. Strongest paws i have seen on a tackle since larry Allen. He is just a freak physically. Decent feet, tecnique has shown steady. When he gets ahold of folks they are finished and he constantly throws entire weight on them n ends stop trying inside after taking a physical beating from him.

Tillman imho was a Terrell Owen's clone. He is strong physically he has pretty good hands and he uses his body well to protect the football. Routes can improve but he likes to block and he ticks off dbs because he is so physical. Doesn't have quickness and it worries me but he has some deceptive speed. I had him as my 36th player and if not for injury concerns would have been much higher.

Siaki was 44th on my board. Power, strong hands he plays his position making room for others to put up the big stats. Similar to Ogunjobi with style but more size n power. He is gonna make our backers stars or they get exposed for how bad they are. You can't hide when u got a man like that takingvup so much space.

McGuire is a beast. He plays the run incredibly well. Tremendously strong hands. That's something all 4 of these picks have in common. I could see him getting a boat load of time as well. Kid has potential to be a 10 to 12 sack guy. May be the biggest draft steal of 2023. I really didn't get his draft slide.

Jones weight, Siaki weight and stiffness, Tillman lack of quick feet but McGuire ithought would start as a rookie for someone.

Good to see you, Mourg. It's been a minute. I miss your intelligent and informed takes.

In 2022 the Browns first rounder was DW.

In 2023 the Browns second round pick was really Elijah Moore.

These two trades are going to define the Browns.

We either become a team with an offense to compete at the highest level or the risk failed.

This is a huge year in the analysis of the Deshaun Watson trade.

If this year goes well then DW will be a fixture with the Browns. If it goes poorly as a result of DW. Then the risk didn't work.

If the 2023 results are ok but not great then the last three years of DW contract will still be open to lots of discussion.

pretty good draft if ,,,
If near the end of the 6th round your honest conclusion
that the biggest team need is,

"gameday coaching of the offense"... another offseason 'on paper' championship.

I can't believe, b/c I'm not sure but it seemed like belichic and the patriots draftet Kayshon Boutte, WR LSU
After...
The Browns drafted Wypler in the, whatever round. which would have been a nice I,2 punch get a wr.

now, ... oh my freaking..., don't know but, value? wow, I don't know how you'd let that happen?
either way,
just positive grades beyond that.
'WE WANT MORE

Thank you brother. Hope to be around a bit this year.

Good to see you mour

I feel we did well... especially for not having a first or second rounder..

Tillman is a solid WR... like the focus on the line on both sides of the ball... Thomas-Robinson has a very high ceiling... or could be a bust... but drafted to sit for the next 3 years and learn is good use of a 5th rounder IMO... worth taking a flyer on...

solid overall...

some other draft thoughts... Houston in the first round was wild!!! was not expecting them to trade up to #3... Philly feels like UGA north... they are going to be very tough.... Levins went to a great situation in Tenn... I see him sitting for at least a year to learn but could be a really good situation for him...

Yeah, Brugler loved our draft

JMHO, we sure did well according to the Jerimiah top 150....AND Jones-OT was his highest rated player---we got VALUE for almost every pick- didn't like QB pick, but skilled and A FRIEND of our QB- team chemistry. I give us an A-, would liked a decent LB. Go Browns!!!

Been awhile. Pleasantly surprised to see you again. Always read your posts. Good judgment like here. Let's do this again soon.
Go, Browns!

I have read a number of takes about drafting the quarterback.

I don't enough about the player to comment on his ability.

However, I will say I have no problem with selecting a QB if he was the the BPA.

Dobbs and Mond are the current backups. Dobbs is ok as backup. Mond? I don't really know.

The selection is about developing a guy. If he has good potential. He could be a long term solution and you never know till you work with the guy and really see what he can do. Tom Brady was drafted as developmental guy. He was not taken to replace Bledsoe.

If this guys becomes a competent backup. Mission accomplished.

JMO We have been getting to the point where not every player we draft is going to make the team. But looking at this draft....Barring Injury, do you see anyone in this Draft Class NOT making the 53???

Tillman - Future Slot and Redzone Specialist (if not more)
Ika - a Schwartz pick (he was grinning ear to ear) on a D that EMPHASIZES the DLine
Jones - Browns are VERY high on him and I can't see him making to the practice squad if we tried to hide him there. Besides I see him taking over for Hubbard....so having he and Hudson as the backup Tackles.
McGuire - has some stiff competition for the last spots on the DLine, but I can't see him not making it...main comp being Wright and Thomas (and heck we might keep all 3 of them)
Thompson-Robinson - OK...This MIGHT be the only one that doesn't make the 53 if we keep 2 QB's. But if we keep 3, I see him beating out Mond.
Mitchell - heck according to him...He is better than Newsome...LOL But still, I see him making the final group.
Wypler - outside of Pocic, I think he may be the next best center we have...I see him as a backup interior guy because of his versatility. Harris very well may still make the team... But I see Wypler as the Froholdt replacement. (but better) I see him beating Deaton and Forbes to pair with Dunn.

Good question.

Usually draft picks make the team. Lots went into selecting them. You want to give them a legit shot.

Unless a player really bombs during camp. He will probably make the team or at least the practice squad.

The qb Robinson might end up on the practice squad.

Thanks guys. The qb wasn't a pick I would make but he legit has a shot to be the best qb. Like Lamar kid is fun to watch. Rarely gets hits for all the running he does

JC...Steelers, Ravens, and even the Bengals had great drafts (Bengals have been drafting better the past several years...we all know the Steelers and Ravens always seem to have really fine drafts)
I am fine with our draft, some of the picks were questionable imo...But the later round guys really put the balance into our draft.

Cedric Tillman WR- I didn't hate the pick, I just was almost certain we would go front 7 with our first pick. I did state before I liked Tillman over Hyatt, I just thought after trading for Elijah Moore, retaining Jakeem Grant, and signing Marquise Goodwin- a WR selection would be more aimed towards the back half of the draft. I was getting nervous when in round 2 there was a fury of DE/DT being grabbed, to be fair...when it was time for our selection, the Dline was rather picked over at the tier expected. Seems rather buried on our depth chart, but should climb some.

Ika DT- I'm glad they addressed DT, as outside of Tomlinson we didn't have anyone but bodies at DT (Unless Winfrey steers out of trouble and works his ass off, and somehow Maurice Hurst returns to his former self of 3 years ago) Everywhere had this guy going round 2/3, I didn't watch a ton of him...and when I did, I wasn't overly impressed. However, if Schwartz wanted him...then I'm in hopes, things turn out for the better. He can't be any worse than Elliot and Togai, and should beef up that middle.

Jones RT- Absolutely gigantic in size, reminds me of Orlando "Zues" Brown. OT was a big need imo, I won't lie I didn't watch a ton of him, as he was expected nearly everywhere in round 2/3. Questionable dedication and conditioning issues scare me, and I'm sure the reason he was available. Two things that stand out to me, he should be a max of 330-340 lbs on that frame, and his hands seem to be awfully high (which I'm sure is to be expected when your 6'8, but he's def. a far cry from say Jonathan Ogden)

McGuire DE- Really like this pick, guy was getting a lot of buzz as of late. We def needed more help at DE, with Wright and Isiah Thomas being our only depth...and Wright is still a project imo. Schwartz really loves to keep his DLine fresh, so I'm sure we'll see more of McGuire as the year progresses.

Robinson QB- I didn't care for this pick...once again kid has some flags (maturity and dedication) I kept seeing him getting some late round buzz, just didn't think it would from us. As if you think about it, thats two picks we gave up on QBS this year (Watson with the 1st round, and Robinson with our 5th) Writing is on the wall for Kellen Mond I would imagine. I just felt either S Jammie Robinson or RB Izzy Abinkanda would have helped this team far better, both of whom went right afterwards...then again, I don't work in an NFL FO anyways.

Cameron Mitchell CB- NCB was a need, with only Thomas Graham there. I watched a lot of Mitchell in anticipation of grabbing a nickel late. Mitchell and Mekhi Blackmon were my two dark horses for that role, and somehow Blackmon went in round 3 to the Vikings...which is odd to me. I'm sure Mitchell has a learning curve with moving inside, but insurance at that important slot role is a must.

Wypler C- I was studying centers heavily, then we resigned Pocic, and I'm like well that was a waste (And I really liked this center class compared to many others of the past several years) I'm not sure how this guy fell so much. But once again, everywhere in the past several months had this guy goin in round 2/3...So to grab talent of that nature, this late is a win win to me. I think he should do well in our blocking scheme, as he is light on his feet and has nice hands. Obviously he can stand to get stronger, but this is probably true of 95% of all prospects.

I can't hate the draft too much. I'd be lying if I said I'm not worried about that front 7...depth at LB, S, RB is still glaring after the draft. Hoping a vast majority of these guys pan out, as we need an infusion of talent that can produce in games, not just on paper.

Thank you..,

In a typical year, I follow the draft pretty closely. Not so much this year..

The TV shows have gotten pretty obnoxious… all fluff. On the NFL network they spent about as much time on adopt a dog with dog pee as they did on the Browns draft…

I am generally happy. no real reaches (John Hughes) and most picks were good value for the relative position.

Three years and we will know more.

Nice post, tru.

They all seem to have upside, but I'm not sure how many will contribute this season.

I think Ika has the best chance to be a factor right away. He should see the field, and, if he lives up to what they are selling, he should be huge (literally and figuratively) for the defense.

How much the rest can contribute will be decided by how fast and how well our coaching staff can develop them. We'll see. Development hasn't been the Browns strong suit.

I don't really see it with Tillman. There's some potential there, but I like the idea of him more than I actually like the player that I saw in large portions of games. He can do some good things, but I also saw a lot of meh. I'd have liked to see the good more consistently. I think it could take him a bit to transition from that system they ran at Tennessee. Being part of a deeper platoon could benefit him if he can go 100% and be zeroed in every snap he's on the field. Maybe can play some bully ball with back shoulder fades this season.

In some ways I feel like Berry is trying a bit too hard to emulate the Eagles. Tillman kind of feels like chasing AJ Brown. Jones-Mailata. DTR could be chasing Hurts. Instead if taking players as they came, he may have gone looking for archetypes. Maybe not, but looking back at it it kind of feels that way.

While there is upside, there are no guarantees. There are a lot of ways these guys could go. Right now I give them a C+ grade. If their planned usage and development works out, it could get a lot better. Maybe some of the "low" grade is just me getting used to not expecting our draft picks to have to have an instant impact due to having a better overall roster (and hangover from the repeated passing on Adebawore.)

Maybe C+ is too harsh. I do think they got pretty good value from where they were picking. I'd make the Watson and Moore trades again, too. I do think the overall roster construction is pretty good and believe in investing in the trenches.

Now they just have to prove themselves right and get these guys ready.

We'll see how it turns out.

Tillman was a very good and fairly consistent WR when he was healthy in 2021. His injuries limited not only his playing time in 2022 but his on field abilities as well. I think those who are doubting him will be pleasantly surprised.

I respect your opinion and you could be right, but I was pleasantly surprised w/the Browns draft. I don't buy all that crap about Berry putting us in cap hell and that Stefanski can't coach or that analytics are ruining the Browns. However, I think Berry's drafting history before this year was really poor. I also thought he did a poor job in FA prior to this year. I think he did very well in both avenues this year. I also don't get the Philly comparison, but maybe I missed your intent?

In the end, it's just discussion. Who knows how it will work out?

We will know about Tillman early on when he has to beat press coverage that he will see everyday in practice. I see both sides love a lot of what he does but can he gain separation at this level. It won't be a 2 year wait to see if he develops, we will know by the end of training camp most likely. He was a bit stiff from the ankle. That should be fine however by the time camp rolls. High ankle so bad he needed surgery. Was that the cause or is he just a stiff hip receiver

I hope you are right, but I did watch some 2021 games and the pre-injury game at Pitt this season. He was okay, but nothing that made me think he was going to be above average in the NFL. I do need to watch more of the 2nd half of 2021. I don't know, the box scores looked much more impressive than how he actually got the numbers so far.

I worry about him translating to an NFL offense against NFL players rather than the Tennessee's college offense where they were running defenses ragged with the spread and taking advantage of defensive breakdowns.

Re: the Philly thing. Maybe it's just the way my mind makes connections. It's sort of a when you go looking for zebras you tend to see zebras, when you go looking for horses you tend to see horses deal. It kind of feels like Berry was looking at the Eagles roster and trying to figure out what they had that we didn't. Cooper is kind of our Devonta Smith, but we didn't really have an AJ Brown, so he went looking for a facsimile. Since he was looking for an AJ Brown, he saw him in Cedric Tillman instead of just seeing the actual player.

It's really just me trying to make sense of the picks that I'm not feeling right now and the surface similarities with some of the people we drafted and Eagles personnel (where Berry spent time) clicked. (Dawand Jones-Jordan Mailata (both 6'8", 350+) and DTR-Jalen Hurts (similarly sized dual threats known more for there strength and toughness than pocket passing) were the other similar body type/style guys)

If they give us reasonable facsimiles of those players, great. I'm just worried Berry may have seen what he wanted to see. Maybe they can get there (or at least trend in those directions--I'm not expecting All-Pros.) I just don't really see it now. Maybe what my expectations were are getting in the way.

While I do understand what you mean about NFL defenses, Tennessee plays in the SEC and he went up against some of the very best talent and defenses in the sport.

I listen to CBS podcasts sometimes when I walk and the said that during the Georgia games, season before this last one that Tillmann had 10 catches for either 225 or 250 yards, That was a very highly rated defense so if that is an indicator of his performance when healthy, I consider that a good sign.

Not knocking Tillman, he had 10 catches for 200 yards in that game, but 4 catches and 121 of the 200 yards came in the 4th quarter after Tennessee was down 34-10. 164 of the 200 yards came in the second half after Tennessee headed to halftime down 24-10. When the game was close in the first half he had 3 catches for 36 yards.

Just some perspective on his numbers for that game.

The problem has begun.

I feared that we would start looking at our 3rd round receiver like he was a 1st round pick.

The guy got hurt, which dropped him to us this year. Good value to us, but he is still a 3rd round pick.

Once again I find myself standing in the kool-aid line. You are right. Third rounder, and he has been injured. Rose-colored day, but hope springs eternal! I am fully committed and willing to risk success. Go,Browns!

For the record I think he will be a very good receiver.

I guess maybe it's me missing the fact that others aren't viewing him in that light. But I watched him in 2021 when he was healthy and as such consider him a steal for a third round pick.

I am optimistic about Tillman, but the Browns third round picks leaves one battered. Travis Wilson, Schwarts, and the infamous John Hughes.

Most of our 1st round picks since"99 have been just as bad with the exception of 3 or 4 guys.

Don't get me started, I will just say this, there would be lots of all-pros (McNabb) and a hall-of-famer (LaDanian), if I was picking.

Carr over Johnny Football, i could go on and on.

True... I think he can be a great player... but still have to remember he's a third rounder...

Not saying Tillman will be as good as this 3rd round WR picks but here are a few recognizable names from 1957 - 2019:

Don Maynard WR (1957), Fred Biletnikoff WR (1965), Nat Moore WR (1974), Jimmy Cefalo WR (1978) Don Beebe WR (1989), Ed McCaffrey WR (1991), Terrell Owens WR (1996), Hines Ward WR (1998), Steve Smith Sr., WR (2001), Emmanuel Sanders WR (2010), T.Y. Hilton, WR (2012), Keenan Allen WR (2013), Tyler Lockett WR (2015), Cooper Kupp WR (2017), Chris Godwin WR (2017), and Terry McLaurin WR (2019).