I'm going to guess that we don't see him until the Arizona game

What prompted me to start this thread was Stainbrook posting that the team expects Watson to begin practicing some time this week. It was quickly deleted.....not sure if it was meant for subscribers to their site or if he got it wrong (shrugs shoulders)

Posted again....

the line has moved from -2 to -3 some places

Jake Trotter
@Jake_Trotter
·
30s
Watson: “I can’t put a timeline” on a return #Browns

Tom Withers
@twithersAP
·
5m
Watson confirms it is the rotator cuff. He’s not sure if he can get back to 100% this season.

Hayden Grove
@H_Grove
·
2m
Deshaun Watson says he has a “micro tear” in his rotator cuff. Like a strain.

Hayden Grove
@H_Grove
·
5m
Deshaun Watson said he discovered that he didn’t know he had a rotator cuff injury until Saturday evening before the Ravens game that he had a rotator cuff injury, due to swelling and what not.

Usually, he would’ve been told to sit, but wanted to try to play Sunday and couldn’t.

Hayden Grove
@H_Grove
·
29s
Deshaun Watson said he could be back tomorrow, could be back Sunday or could be back two days from now.

Said he’s truly day-to-day, but normally rotator cuffs take 4 to 6 weeks, according to the medical teams.

He is not practicing today.

Not good because Wednesday is install day. Reps are important. IMO having had two rotator cuff surgeries. Your arm is dead.

You cannot drive the throws. You might be able to make certain throws like shallow cross and flats.

But deep outs and vertical throws you cannot make those throws. The ball will die.

Until he can drive the ball on those patterns. He should not play.

I don't think it is a case of further damage. It is a matter of inflammation and range of motion.

You don't wake up and bam are healed. The strength slowly returns as the swelling goes down.

so it sounds like he might have a while before returning then?

I had a rotator cuff injury in my throwing shoulder one year when playing softball. It is a question of time and not reaggravating the injury. That shoulder is basically useless regarding playing any competitive sport.

Wow, I’ve had that twice in the last two years. Micro-tears in my shoulder, the doctor said my aging muscles were like old rubber bands breaking… it took me months to heal. I know DW is young, but it is still painful and takes a bit to heal no matter your age.

j/c...

After hearing the full audio of Watson speaking with the media on CBD, it seems safe to say he's not playing this week. I'm not confident he'll even be able to return for the Seahawks game.

If he still can't get on the practice field as of today, he's not going to magically wake up tomorrow or Friday and be good to go.

Hopefully, he is back by the Arizona game.

Here is a longer clip from Watson speaking today...

I have been going through the same, Bicycling and doing body weight workouts don't feel great but also don't make it worse

Waking up in the middle of the night on the shoulder makes it the worse, learning how to sleep on my back and a pillow under the shoulder

I shouldn't say this and please don't go back to all the non sense

I think most of you know I was buried alive in a ditch in 1991

Physical therapy didn't help much, but I found a massothraphist who helped me get back on my feet

She did deep tissue massage , and let me tell you it hurt ! but it also worked

Getting all the tendons ligaments and muscles loose helped so much

Im seeing her again for the soulder and it helps tremoundsley.

Please again everyone take this serious please. If any of you are fighting a rotator cuff issue try it

Have your traps lats and muscles surrounding the rotator cuff helped me so much !

Grossi looks a lot like Big Chuck in that photo.

After the second surgery I had. It still was far from right.

I went back to the Orthopedic doc. He gave me a cortisone shot deep into the shoulder.

It worked. The swelling went down. Range of motion returned.

I am sure he has received shots. I am surprised his shoulder has not responded better.

Each case is different. Mine had tears. His was from a hit not wear and tear. So a deep contusion may take longer.

A players best ability is _________.

A micro tear is a bruise.

Shoulders can be tricky. Nobody has many questions when a baseball pitcher is on the shelf with shoulder inflammation.

Correct and with bruises comes swelling and swelling causes issues

Especially in a rotor cuff that a QB has to use to throw a ball

History is repeating itself. We had high hopes for the 2021 season and then Baker hurt his shoulder. Even though it was his non-throwing shoulder it still had an adverse effect on his ability to throw and it ruined the season. Might be happening again this year.

In rehab a power chair was delivered to my house. You sit in it. It has an arm rest. The arm rest is powered and it lifts your elbow.

You have very little strength. Driving a throw to deep route is not happening until the swelling is gone and range of motion returns.

I pitched. Then coached and pitched batting practice daily to a team. My shoulder was toast.

DW will heal. But how long it takes? It is like he said when he can deliver passes.

Hopefully it is sooner rather than later.

It might. A off throwing shoulder like Bakes can have impact. The throwing shoulder is worse. With the off shoulder, it impacts accuracy more than anything. With the throwing shoulder, you can't throw.

You heal when you heal. There is no timetable. It happens when it happens.

This isn't really about Watson, but I have a question should he not be able to play. I am not QB "expert" but wondered if some of you who truly know coaching or QB evaluation, saw anything in P J Walker against the 49ers, that gives you confidence he can hold down the fort for a few games.

I feel sort of positive about the running game since we did well against the 49ers who had been defending the run well.

Our next 3 opponents are less than stellar, and yes on any given Sunday teams can surprise. Our D is playing lights out and if our running game can work decently, we might not need as much from the QB position.

Thoughts?

Well, don’t turn the ball over is what I want most from P.J.
I think with another game under his belt and practising with the first team this week, he should be better on Sunday, if he plays.

Our D is elite and rarely gives up long drives, so we can’t be giving the other teams short fields.

I'm circling week 10 for a Watson return with a 4-5 record

I agree. You still want balance to keep teams honest, but when you are playing a back-up QB, you want to be able to lean on the running game.

The thing about the running game is it is an investment. You have to keep pounding. It may not work as you want early, but if you have a good line and decent backs, both of which we have, you start gaining yards.

John Riggins was a perfect example. At the half he might have 35 yards gained. By end game he had 130. If you are good, sooner or later those 3-4 yard gains turn in to 7-8 yard gains. Henry is another. Guys like that with a good line just wear a D down, but it takes time. You have to stick with it.

Great point and how often did we see Chubb do that?

Not only are defences a little worn down in the 4th, OL-men love running it late, because they don’t have to drop back a step or two in pass protection, but can move forward against the guy they’re trying to block, or at least have an opportunity to stand their ground.

yeah, our trademark the past few years has been winning games late with our run game because of that ... I think we even saw it against SF this past week. The last 2 drives we were really hitting on some chunk yards on the ground

I had a bad rotator for about 2 yrs, kept aggravating it. It sucks but the cortisone shot fixed my right up for about 6-8wks. I’m curious if they’ve given him the shot

I think my biggest issue with this is how poorly stefanski and berry handled this. They should have come out right away and said this and all this speculation wouldn't have happened and he's just an injured player who is in rehab protocol. To come out and say medical staff cleared him and you were surprised he didn't play.. I mean seriously.. If our medical staff is that bad, they need to go. So something still don't smell right. Rotator cuff is probably one of the most nagging injuries you can have. Theres nothing to do but just rehab and wait.. people try rush back and the cycle repeats. But to that end, I know DTR was a dumpster fire against Bal, but I almost rather see him than Walker against lesser teams. Walker has the propensity to be a turnover machine. Thats the one thing we can't have with watson out if we want to give ourselves a chance.

I agree the messaging on this was choppy at best.

That said, being medically cleared to play and being able to play are two different things.

The dichotomy with DW is him needing to rest when he really needs to play.

He banks a good game with the Titans. A game we needed to see from him. You want to build on that and get into that groove. Where the game is slowing down. You are trusting what you see. Your timing is clicking. Chemistry is forming.

The defense is all in. Confidence breeds confidence.

You want the offense to find that.

And now he can't throw well enough.

When a pitcher has a throwing injury. He doesn't just come back. When he misses his starts with injury. Once he is healthy. He gets ramped up.
Gets a rehab start in the minors. He is watched closely. He may need a few starts.

Quarterbacks are like pitchers. This is a shoulder issue.

We want DW to return to form. He now is in limbo when we really want him playing and finding his groove.

I hope he can play.

It also sounds like they didn't fully understand what was going on, medically, until well after the Ravens game. It's really only recently that they've put out actual info on his condition. I believe what's been put out there was that he had a lot of inflammation going into the Ravens game, and once that went down they were able to see why he couldn't drive the ball.

The mixed signals were confusing.

Medically cleared means no structural damage. It implies he is kinda ok. It also implies that playing will not result in further damage.

Deep contusion is a bruise. The issue is swelling. That is soft tissue. If DW was playing corner. He could possibly play.

However, it is another story throwing a football 50 yards. Anticipating open and fitting a ball into tight coverage.

Putting juice on a ball when it needs that velo.

DW will play when it is the right time for him to play. It is a bummer man.

Could be, I don't know.

And to comment on something Bone said after your post. And it isn't even tossing the ball 50 yards. The weight of the ball makes a difference, but if your rotator is hurt, just the motion of throwing hurts. You could be tossing a whiffle ball 25 feet and it would cause irritation.

Why are they obligated to tell anyone, other than maybe the league, what they know about his injury? It stinks when we don't know, but I am OK with them keeping it quiet. Keep the next week's opponent guessing.

Plus, it always bothered me that media is always pushing for comment, hoping to get something controversial. so they can go to other side and create a story.

I guess I am defending their methods, but i have felt for years that the public and media thinks they deserve to know. If he was just Joe citizen; it would be illegal for his status to be discussed.

Not exactly the same, but it always made me wonder why fans wanted to the team to give indications of their draft intentions. That only helps the teams drafting around them.

To address your questions about Walker I don't think what we saw tells us very much either way about having any confidence in him. I think it would be safe to say that he's certainly not going to be a QB who is going to light the world on fire. But as far as it pertains to not turning the ball over and being able to manage a game I don't think we can draw any conclusions from last weeks game.

He had just came off the practice squad and had very little time to prepare. He certainly didn't have the time to develop any chemistry with the starting WR's in regards to timing or their individual tendencies. So I believe that your question about having confidence in him is premature at this juncture.

Thanks. That was my feeling too, and sort of hoped it would be preached to him to be careful with the ball, let the running game do it's job and rely on D. Hopefully another week of practice improves timing.

j/c...

If he does practice, my guess is it would be in a very limited role.

you're talking about two different things and have missed the point..Fine, don't say anything other than he is injured and is rehabbing and working his way back.. But what they did was contradict themselves and watson and the medical staff all at different points creating the illusion that something shady was happening and there was discourse on the team. From watson to players, coaches and berry . It was all unneccessary.. If you aren't going to say what is wrong then don't say anything other than he's injured.. and yes, they are required to report to the league and the league makes it known.. but it looks pretty shady if you report all other injuries to the public for the other players but the player thats been the most scrutinized since he got here, and you decide to play it like that.

yeah and thats the problem, if you rush back you now have a season-long nagging issue

ProFootballTalk
@ProFootballTalk
Amari Cooper: It seems like Deshaun Watson will practice today.

Hopefully, they are still giving first team reps to PJ Walker so he is as prepared as possible.

The "illusion that something shady was happening" is the perception and opinion one comes to based on their own view of something. At "different points" could just as easily indicate that the reports changed as they learned more details about the nature of the injury. Sometimes people come to conclusions based on what they are or aren't looking for. I do agree that this would have been better handled if the messaging was clearer. But to come to the conclusion that this was some indication of discourse on the team would seem like a reach of epic proportions.

Fantastic news.

I hope he is good enough to play Sunday.

I really hope what we saw against the Titans can be building block.

I think this is going to be a "ramp up" then "ramp down" and increase the "ramp up" slowly over the next few weeks ... and then he'll play

I'm not holding me breath that he will be able to play this week but of course I do hope that will be the case. I take the fact he will be out there tossing the ball around as a positive sign he may be headed back in that direction.

tough to tell much for me ... at least he's throwing

side note: one of my underrated favorite things about practice clips is watching the background change ... think about those trees/sky when training camp starts, now look at them, and then when it's winter in December ... fun to watch

How his shoulder feels tomorrow will be big.

If he plays, I'm guessing it will be a bunch of short and intermediate throws.

Based on those clips, I don't see him playing on Sunday. His throws were more like soft toss.

If Watson plays and he's limited to short and intermediate throws, then he's not ready to play and it would be a mistake playing him.

That being said, I highly doubt he plays this weekend.

Keep giving PJ Walker the first team reps. The Browns cannot afford to take step back and lose to Indy.

Or get Watson hurt worse. Hopefully extra practice will allow PJ to get better acquainted with the offense and maybe even eliminate turnovers.

Bernie Kosar had this injury. He gives some great insight. Check out his interview on the UCSS from 11:00 to 45:00...

Just to be clear, when I say "a bunch of short and immediate" throws, I don't mean exclusively or only limited to those ranges. I would assume if he can play, the deep throw is an option for him, just not at the level we might normally expect. And with a team playing a backup QB in Minshew, hopefully that wouldn't even be needed.

But sure, if that type of throw is out of the question it means he isn't truly ready, rest him, and hope the defense can be as good as they've been to be the driver for a win.

I thought I was the only one who actually noticed this.

It really tells the tale of an NFL season in the Midwest: starts in the hellish heat of Summer, ends in the icy brutality of Winter. I wouldn't have it any other way. It's a central part of why I still watch the game: outdoors, no matter what the weather. Phil Dawson v. BUF is an epic example.

It's football. WEATHER IS SUPPOSED TO BE A PLAYER IN THE GAME.

I hate watching sanitized football played in domes, on fake grass, and in controlled environments. They were created to increase revenue from "fans" who'd only buy season tix if they could watch the game in shorts and tees. Give me a camera shot of Dawg Pound denizens, layered up in late December any day, and I'll cheer with them every week. It's why I love our division. 4 Midwest teams, zero domes. Summer through Winter. I will allow myself to troll/diss/dawgbite those fans, but I'll never disrespect them. They live the same experiences that we do for their respective teams. Worthy of respect.

Football was created as an outdoor sport. Cold, rainy days. Mud, and fat freezing rain/snowdrops is important.
If it's really football.


.02

______________________


p.s. I just re- realized how uniquely incestuous this division is, in all of the NFL: 3 of its 4 teams come from the same original early ancestral NFL DNA.



I've said it ad nauseum over the years, but it bears repetition: it really should be the Paul Brown Trophy that is hoisted after the Super Bowl.

Vince Lombardi was a great coach.
Paul Brown was a visionary who created the modern NFL... and 32 years after his death, an entire division of Modern Professional Football still bears his direct imprint.


Someone should start a petition.
I would sign it.

I could not agree with you more.

I despise domes and fake grass. Fake grass in particular because IMO it is that surface that is the cause of more injuries.

I get the economics of domes. That does not mean I like it. I do not.

I don't recall the year. But once I was traveling and got stuck in an airport. There was a snow game in Denver. It was wild. It was really coming down. The bar in the airport was packed with people watching the game. The people were loving it. Later in the week I read where that game was watched by more people than any game.

Sometimes you want a fast track. I understand that. But I like that the weather doesn't care. I like it when Mother Nature dictates.
Deal with it.

Sure it can be brutal. But you are right that is what makes football. Unfortunately we will not get our way. In fact probably the opposite; any new stadiums will most likely be domes.

For his time Paul Brown was the most impactful figure in professional football. Vince was a great head coach. There is a difference.

There is loads of pressure on DW to start.

It is all part of "the football mentality." You play hurt. You don't play injured. Every player in the NFL knows the code.

Njoku, Bitonio every player.

DW wants to play. My guess is. He will play. That does not mean 100%.

He most likely will not be able to do what he would normally. He may be able to adjust his timing some. Some throws there will be no visible difference. Others like deep outs I would expect those balls to hang up. Accuracy may be on and off.

I do not think that throwing will cause more damage. But a hit to that shoulder will be a big problem.

If he can escape being seriously hit. He should improve week to week.

I think it DW call. KS is not going to tell him to play. It should be DW call.

well said Clem .. the beauty of the game is the weather, atmosphere, brutality etc

hoping he feels good after practice

Stefanski coming to speak soon. Should know soon if Watson is playing...

well, a lot will ride on how he feels tomorrow then

well, with the exception of one solitary performance, he's been questionable for every game, so far.

Zip looks better than the previous practice. Not sure about the accuracy, though.

I hope he plays, but if takes an extra week... btw maybe we shouldn’t call so many designed runs with him, something I said weeks ago, before the season started.

Now that opposing defences know he has a banged up shoulder, guess what they’ll be going after?

j/c:

I hope Watson plays. Walker makes me nervous as all hell, but if DW's shoulder still hurts, let him sit.

------------------------------------------------

Browns' Deshaun Watson (shoulder) expected to start Sunday vs. Colts

https://www.foxsports.com/stories/n...oulder-practicing-again-could-face-colts

On Friday, Watson had a compression sleeve on his right arm and a supportive brace on his shoulder as the Browns worked out indoors. Watson threw with more velocity than the previous day and took the bulk of first-team reps in preparation for the Colts.

I'm with you guys ... I'd sit him unless he is 100% (and mentally prepared to let it rip). .. you can't play the game half way

it's a great way to find yourself out for the season.

I notice it, especially on my drives up from Tennessee.

Early on, everything is pretty much green. All the corn and soy beans are in the still growing stage. On the last trip to the 49ers game the corn was brown, and many of the fields had been harvested. The trees in Tennesse hadn't changed but were showing signs of heat stress except when I got up in the mountains outside of Knoxville. The color gradually started to show as I went north through Kentucky and Ohio.

My next trip is in a couple of weeks and the colors here at home will be about a week away from peak and gradually start turning barren as I head north. The harvested fields will start to be plowed under to be ready for the spring plant.

Then the snow.

The issue with Watson playing is he has to be able to run to be effective. He's not effective just throwing the ball. The injury has to be 100% healed for him to play to his strengths. Not that Stefanski would alter the game plan to account for that, but if he's not 100% I don't know how effective he can be and the extent to which he can help the team.

IMO he does not have to run to be effective.

He has to pass efficiently. Playing quarterback requires sufficient movement to be able to throw. That will not be a problem.

Designed runs are useful at times. However, it is up to DW to protect himself by sliding.

KS did alright last week. On the play where Bryant flipped the ball to Kareem. The Niners bought the sneek.

He also adjusted play design to help PJ Walker. Giving him limited options and single reads.

If DW can throw then play the game.

The question beyond the injury boils down to this. Is watson better in his current condition than Walker is healthy?

If watson is the better option on game day and is available and wants to play, the answer will most likely be watson.

I'm sort of on the side that says let him heal up first. But I'm not a physician, a trainer nor in the position to have enough information to make an informed decision in that regard.

Either way, if he plays or does not play, the colts are in the catbird seat.

The Browns will need to score 30, or realistically 23+ points to win, and are
set to 'give up' a defensive touchdown again,

which would mean the colts need to only score about sixteen, at home to win.

since Kevin has been the head coach, he must be what? 0 and 4 in games that could put the Browns alone in Ist place,
Kevin has routinely lost games you are favored to win.
And has coached better against the NFC than the AFC.

At game end you could be 4 and 2 and ahead of both Pitt and maybe Balt, ...

You think the NFL would allow that^ ? watch what New York and the refs will do to prevent that.

or at the end of the game you could be 3 and 3 and in 3rd place behind a head to head tie break with Pit and Balt...

and
at the end of the game the Browns could be in about 6th place in the AFC <<< the NFL, new York, and the refs would never allow that.

or be about eleventh place in the AFC in a mix of about I8 out of 32 NFL teams that would or could be 3 and 3.


Which one ^, do you think will end up happening?? If you, or I, think the Browns are going to win this game, ....
well, at least.
If the Browns win THIs Game, then I haven't been paying attention, for the last 36 years.

What you have here, is, Almost <<<<<<<< a guaranteed, win for the Colts. and when I 'pick games, I pick with my head not my heart.

and I said the Bengals would beat the chiefs about 4 months before they did the first time,
and Minshew is the perfect style of @uarterback to carve up this Browns defense

And DPJ has been back on the milk carton, missing in action
and Njoku is again only going to be a factor in name only,
And Amari can't make a great catch 2 weeks in a row,
and anything else you want to say < that I hope, motivates the Browns<<< to prove me wrong,

but,

my head says, almost, a guaranteed win for the Colts.

at home and.... underdogs at home , come on? against the Browns?
who are we kidding?
this is a layup, bet this game. :sigh, frown:

So, you think the league ‘won’t allow’ this or that… So you think the games are fixed?
Why bother watching?

I live in America and watch football that is probably fixed, at least partly fixed. What a flaw I have.
Go Browns

America may be your physical location but I'm not sure that is where your mind is located.

Your head thinks and that is a problem.

Read what you wrote and try to make sense of it.

Good luck with that.

gorgeous drive this time of year ... it's probably one of those drives that you can really see the seasons. Thanks for sharing

Adam Schefter
@AdamSchefter
·
2m
Browns’ QB Deshaun Watson, listed as questionable for Sunday, is tracking to play vs. the Colts but also needs to pass his pre-game warmup test before the team signs off on it, per sources.

Thanks d4l but sphincter isn’t telling us anything new

Mary Kay Cabot
@MaryKayCabot
Deshaun Watson won't be restricted vs. #Colts -- he'll start barring an unforeseen setback -- coming off the strained rotator cuff; Kareem Hunt iffy with thigh injury: #Browns Insider

lets hope he's ok

glad he's feeling comfortable enough to play

Agreed. If I were him I would try very hard not to run much.

Rather, I would be scrambling to the right and keeping the bad shoulder to the sideline. Gotta use the legs to be as effective as possible. Playing at less than the best he can doesn't seem like the optimal recipe for success to me. The running ability is part of what makes him what he is. Slide, get out of bounds, throw it away, avoid taking shots as much as possible, but keep the threat of the run alive.

good idea about scrambling right .. I'm sure Indy will be forcing him left too haha

The part about sliding and running out of bounds is paramount too

I think scrambling to get out of bounds or avoiding hits is a good thing. I think trying to run with the ball as an offensive weapon to advance the ball while taking unneeded risks is a bad thing.