He may be about the only weapon left on offense this week depending on what Flip decides to dial up (know he is considered unpredictable by some).
What do you expect to see him do, what will he do well?
Not being confrontational with this one: For those who wanted him played "to see what we have" in him, what is it you will see or need to see to confirm him as a starting QB here, or what buries the issue? I want to watch the game and look for what you say is vital.
Pettine and Flip have both said "we feel like we know what we have in Manziel as a football player".
How do we interpret this?
I think it means they don't feel he is good enough. If I had to guess, Pettine would have preferred to start Davis the rest of the season, but he was given orders not to. That's what I also suspect his "tough decisions" comment was about. And why he's talking about no unity within the organization.
Of course, it could mean they do believe he's good enough, but in order for him to achieve his full potential, they need to give him some tough love or he'll just squander it.
I think it's the former. Could be the latter. I would probably put the percentages at 90/10.
I think that they have a good idea what Manziel can do on the field, but off the field is still a major concern. I would guess that they feel they can win with Manziel, as long as he gets his head, and life, right.
He may be about the only weapon left on offense this week depending on what Flip decides to dial up (know he is considered unpredictable by some).
What do you expect to see him do, what will he do well?
Not being confrontational with this one: For those who wanted him played "to see what we have" in him, what is it you will see or need to see to confirm him as a starting QB here, or what buries the issue? I want to watch the game and look for what you say is vital.
I would like to win this thang as well.
Not that I know for sure, but something popped up on facebook last night saying that Pryor will probably play on Sunday.
I would like to see Pryor play with Johnny. The coaches have to put the play book aside from practice and understand Game day its who can execute results. I'd say 30% of the time Manziel will break out of the pocket and go into IMPROV. Pryor would be a good target. Size and speed ala Evans.
I would like to see us erupt one time for a game. Let johnny go after them, work the middle, license to scramble, and cut them loose. Fewer middle runs, flags, and two-yard passes.
Call a different game, hopefully play a different game. Like to see us get after them with some different receivers. Paying Bowe has been like feeding strays.
I would rather get a truly elite pass rusher ..... and there just happens to be one sitting right at the top of the draft who can be a real difference maker in the NFL. It doesn't hurt that he's a Buckeye either.
I am tired of trading great for a couple of "pretty good". (or worse) I want great players, who make those around them better.
I would rather get a truly elite pass rusher ..... and there just happens to be one sitting right at the top of the draft who can be a real difference maker in the NFL. It doesn't hurt that he's a Buckeye either.
I am tired of trading great for a couple of "pretty good". (or worse) I want great players, who make those around them better.
I know he will get franchised so it is a moot point, but give Von Miller all the money. All of it.
I would rather get a truly elite pass rusher ..... and there just happens to be one sitting right at the top of the draft who can be a real difference maker in the NFL. It doesn't hurt that he's a Buckeye either.
I am tired of trading great for a couple of "pretty good". (or worse) I want great players, who make those around them better.
I know he will get franchised so it is a moot point, but give Von Miller all the money. All of it.
I would rather get a truly elite pass rusher ..... and there just happens to be one sitting right at the top of the draft who can be a real difference maker in the NFL. It doesn't hurt that he's a Buckeye either.
I am tired of trading great for a couple of "pretty good". (or worse) I want great players, who make those around them better.
the question is ytown, do you want to blow 1 pick or 3.
I would rather get a truly elite pass rusher ..... and there just happens to be one sitting right at the top of the draft who can be a real difference maker in the NFL. It doesn't hurt that he's a Buckeye either.
I am tired of trading great for a couple of "pretty good". (or worse) I want great players, who make those around them better.
Don't be surprised, whether it is via Free Agency or Draft, if we invest significant resources in that Secondary, first. I fully expect a top-flight Cornerback to be brought aboard, one way or another.
Beyond that, yes, we REALLY need a pass rusher & a beastly thumper with big-time instincts at ILB.
Thinking we will make a move to get Wilkerson I believe is going to leave Jets??? We would then need an OLB or 4/3 DE pending if we stay with our D or move on?
As high of a premium this defense put on being able to run solid man coverage, I wouldn't be shocked if we went via FA & Draft.... like 2nd or 3rd rounder, or something.
On offense, we just need a big ole WR and to figure out what the heck is ailing our Run game. With QB play not getting any better than we had this year, just the other two things would elevate this offense's effectiveness to where we could hang better.
On defense, though.... we're a mess. We need a LOT of work. We've made a lot of investments in our defense and we've swung & missed on most all of them recently. That means we have big old, nasty, rotten holes in our roster that need to be gutted and replaced, and we pretty much have that in every position group. I think only Safeties are solid.... maybe DT's if Shelton gets stronger and improves his techniques. The rest is U-G-L-Y.
We do seem to have a lot of holes on our defense.... but imagine if we had one, just one, guy that could beat his guy man to man to get pressure consistently... and a fast, solid run stuffing MLB....
Those two things would cover up a lot of our other deficiencies or at least make them less glaring..
I think all of us who love the Browns - and those who don't can get the F off the board - hope Manziel shows promise. Ever since I saw him beat Alabama I've liked him. He can win. I hope he does for us, I'd love to see him play well and be a QB for us in 2016 and beyond.
If Manziel is to start for the remainder of the season, please game-plan in accordance to his skill set. Give him some basic parameters, then turn him loose. Let him audible. Design him some roll outs, and see what happens. USE his ability to improvise to your advantage- instead calling an entire game like you would for some drop-back pocket-passing QB.
I see it this way: when you buy (draft) a product as unique as Manziel, you know what you're getting. If you're not prepared to use him according to his individual features, then you shouldn't have drafted him in the first place.
If this is truly Manziel's 2016 audition, then open the playbook wide. Treat him like he's a true starter, and don't coddle him. Don't hamstring him with a restrictive game plan that stifles what makes him unique. It's the only way you'll have any clue as to what you have. If he's going to be riding the neighborhood with the big kids, you have to take the training wheels off.
He may succeed or he may fail. But at least he'll be doing it in a setting that leaves it up to him.
We gotta run a more vertical passing attack with Johnny. Thats his skill set. He is probably the best deep ball thrower I saw in college since Carson Palmer. That will also open things up for stuff underneath with the screen and run game.
I'm not certain the OC can "plan" for him. Planned plays depend on each and every of the other 10 players doing the right thing in order for that play to be successful. So far they haven't been able to do that with any consistency. Plus, planned plays are more easily recognized by the opposition.
So rather than plan I suggest giving him freedom. Freedom to allow him to act on what he sees as an opportunity. Instead of insisting he remain in the pocket and take what the defense gives him at all times, give him the freedom to create, to ad lib, to extend plays. I think that's the way to get the best out of his skill-set.
Thanks, lampdogg. I was impressed with what I saw today. Not sure he is all we need, but he looked better and looked focused. He threw good stuff. Hist mechanics were chaos, but he made some good throws.
I would love to draft a QB after we use the number one for a glaring need.
I can agree with all of that. If we are embarking on this grand experiment finally "to see what we have" in JM, then we dang well better know the questions for which we are seeking answers. He needs disciplined play and some leeway. The lack of Cam Erving helped a bunch today IMO.
Last couple games, Flip is throwing in some middle of the field routes and they have worked. Get the game plan together to attack the areas he has avoided in our losses. Other teams have beaten us with stuff he has refused or neglected to run. Many choices haven't worked but get called regularly. Give JM a workable attacking offense.
The way JFF was slipping out of sacks today, I'm not sure if it'd matter much. He's certainly elusive. It's just a shame that NFL defenses are just way too disciplined and keep their positions. There were a few plays that JFF would find his way out of the pocket and 9ers were still playing zone, fairly indifferent to what just happened. In College those plays would be touchdowns as safeties would pounce on those situations. But we also knew that his would happen. I'm just really glad he also understands that and doesn't rely on it.
I like Brady Quinn's remarks today regarding JF being JF - "he's like a wet bar of soap" hahaha. People were just slipping off him.
I thought he made some great throws today. The one across his body was duck ball and I figured it was going to be INT'ed, but all in all and even coming from a JF hater - I thought he played well. Extended plays when they needed to be extended and etc.
That seven yard run he had was one of the most impressive seven yard runs I've ever seen. Started, stopped, changed directions, ran sideways, ran backwards. Crazy.
Manziel is one the most elusive QB's I've ever seen at escaping pressure. He must really frustrate the hell out of pass rushers, near the end of the game Brooks had Johnny by the neck after the play and wasn't letting go. Then he punched Crowell after he tackled him the next play, the guy was starting to come unglued. I thought he was gonna get kicked out.
shhhh Vambo don't show those to Johnny. If he scrambles like that on first or second down and gets sacked we don't need any 2nd or 3rd down and 50 situations
Johnny's willingness to play from the pocket really impressed me. There were times he held the ball far too long, but I got the sense it was because he was trying to force a play throwing from the pocket rather than rely on perhaps previous instincts to run from it. I hope he'll be able to find that healthy balance and not eliminate his ability to make plays with his legs, something no coach can teach and still a valuable asset to Johnny's game.
Very few mistakes and was really pleased with how he played. His ability to extend plays is so exciting to watch.
The single best thing I keep noticing about Johnny is that he continues to progress and get a little bit better every time he takes the field.
I *REALLY* liked when he was whacking himself in the head with the tablet after that stupid INT because: 1. it showed that he immediately came to see what went wrong 2. he very quickly saw and diagnosed the error 3. he held himself accountable for the mistake 4. it showed he cares and wants to get better
If the kid can button down his life off-the-field and become a real Professional, I'm starting to believe that he has a real chance to be something.
I have been all over the place regarding Johnny. I have defended him, berated him, praised him, trashed him, etc.
He is such a polarizing figure. He is such a boom or bust type of player. He just doesn't fit into a neat little package that we can secure and put a bow on.
All I know is that the Browns will be a lot better off if he somehow pans out, so that is what I am hoping for.
He is such a polarizing figure. He is such a boom or bust type of player. He just doesn't fit into a neat little package that we can secure and put a bow on.
All I know is that the Browns will be a lot better off if he somehow pans out, so that is what I am hoping for.
He does not fit into such a package. There is nothing in his game that makes you say "He'll never succeed because ....."... Similarly, there is nothing in his game that makes you say, "He'll be great because...."
His height and his history of running around are obstacles but shorter QBs can have success and the running around can get under control if he is willing to work on it. The arm strength is there, the competitiveness is there, the accuracy is pretty good, the presnap reads have come a long way in a short period of time, the post snap progressions are getting more and more noticable, knowledge of the playbook seems to be constantly improving......
I don't think its such a hard read. The kid should be good to great the x factor is his maturity does he breakdown to old ways?
Here is my thought process on that. Starting out i had a good outlook on him - I watched almost all of his college games in 2013 there was so much that I liked of him coming in. But day one I knew he would have to sit a year and get groomed for the NFL game.
Now the experts - Some hated him and just stated that he would never be an NFL QB cause he could never throw from the pocket. Never ever yada yada...Billick the self acclaimed genius was in this grouping.
Then you had your analyst who claimed you have to just let him be JFF don't try to teach him the NFL game. Of course those guys I thought were just idiots.
Then you had Gruden who loved him but then he loves everyone so how do you go on that/
But we insisted on making him an NFL QB and we knew he could. Everyone gave Pettine grief when he criticized and refused to let Johnny just be johnny and not get better - he knew he could be better.
And in one week of preparation the impossible was proven possible and JM threw from the pocket and got it. There is no reason why that JM can't be that pocket guy first and then improv 2nd. When he hunkers down and lets himself be coached up. He has responded. He will be great only he can stop his destiny to be a great NFL QB.
Back in college I remember his 1st year Heisman he went and hired tutors to help him throw from the pocket...not college related. and then 2013 he was probably one of the best spread O QBs from the pocket when he threw from there. That is when I knew he could become an NFL QB. I knew he was coachable - what I didn't know was his partying was holding him back...it wasn't just feeling his Oats.
He is such a polarizing figure. He is such a boom or bust type of player. He just doesn't fit into a neat little package that we can secure and put a bow on.
All I know is that the Browns will be a lot better off if he somehow pans out, so that is what I am hoping for.
He does not fit into such a package. There is nothing in his game that makes you say "He'll never succeed because ....."... Similarly, there is nothing in his game that makes you say, "He'll be great because...."
I agree with Vers on this. I think Manziel is a huge boom or bust. He has excellent QB tools, is smart, extremely competitive and is a natural leader. Really the only thing that can stop him from becoming a very good QB (besides injury) is himself, which is what makes him boom or bust to me.
I don't think its such a hard read. The kid should be good to great the x factor is his maturity does he breakdown to old ways?
Good to great? I hope you're right, I just don't see it...<sigh>
He's got some learning to do, no doubt. But, he played well against the steelers, and had a good game against the niners. I know, I know - it was "just the niners". But, overall, he played well.
The 2 plays that really bothered me was the int. It bothered him as well. A qb needs to know that a pass like that, across his body and across the field - just not a smart play.
The other play was his attempt at scrambling in the endzone. He got bailed out by a fluke face mask call. 95 times out of 100, if he does that, we give up a safety.
He's young. He's learning. Best thing for him now is to play - best thing for the Browns is for him to play.
Let's not expect too much, either. Seattle, KC, and the stoolers - if my memory serves me. Let's just see growth out of him.
I find it kind of funny. Many didn't give us any chance to win this game. Now that they were wrong "It's only the 49'ers".
Seems rather disingenuous to me. Yes they aren't a highly ranked team, but they'd just beaten the Bears and had won twice as many games as we had going into Sundays game.
I was happy with the win and thought they played well as a team on both sides of the ball. Was it perfect? No, but it was progress.
I find it kind of funny. Many didn't give us any chance to win this game. Now that they were wrong "It's only the 49'ers".
Seems rather disingenuous to me. Yes they aren't a highly ranked team, but they'd just beaten the Bears and had won twice as many games as we had going into Sundays game.
I was happy with the win and thought they played well as a team on both sides of the ball. Was it perfect? No, but it was progress.
Agree. I can't see why people state the win was no big deal. Weren't the Browns week before slotted for the first pick in the draft? Anyone they beat is technically an upset. Regardless the game at very least was enjoyable and looked like real football!
Johnny's willingness to play from the pocket really impressed me. There were times he held the ball far too long, but I got the sense it was because he was trying to force a play throwing from the pocket rather than rely on perhaps previous instincts to run from it. I hope he'll be able to find that healthy balance and not eliminate his ability to make plays with his legs, something no coach can teach and still a valuable asset to Johnny's game.
Very few mistakes and was really pleased with how he played. His ability to extend plays is so exciting to watch.
I hope it continues.
Play from the pocket? Hell if you recorded the game watch it again. He made the Statue Of Liberty look hyper a few times lol If anybody would have suggested this right after he was drafted many folks would have claimed it was not possible. Some folks would have said they knew he could do it. Put me in the No way in hell crowd lol Johnny has come a long, long, way. Is he there yet, NOPE, but he has busted his ass to get a lot closer. The only thing standing between Johnny and a good career is himself right now.
I'm impressed with Johnny. Plus, he's fun to watch. He brings some excitement to the game. I'm not calling him "the one" yet, but the guy has potential.....and he has me enjoying watching the games again.
Like GM said, Johnny has a long way to go and we all know he can bust out in an instant, but wouldn't it be really crazy if Johnny is the one who unites all of us who have battled for years?
I don't know why I care, but it makes me feel good to see you and Purp saying good things about Johnny.
I really can't explain why it makes me feel good, but it does and I will just roll w/it.
LOL I never praised or bashed Johnny last year or this year for that matter, for anything he did on the field. I reported what was the thought process going on from the Browns front office and coaching staff. I caught hell for that from both sides lol. As you well knoe bro catching hell for telling the truth runs off my back like water on a duck
Like GM said, Johnny has a long way to go and we all know he can bust out in an instant, but wouldn't it be really crazy if Johnny is the one who unites all of us who have battled for years?
It would. Especially because most of us were really against the pick. It would be so Browns like if this character becomes the one we have waited so long for. It would be fun and funny.
He is such a polarizing figure. He is such a boom or bust type of player. He just doesn't fit into a neat little package that we can secure and put a bow on.
All I know is that the Browns will be a lot better off if he somehow pans out, so that is what I am hoping for.
He does not fit into such a package. There is nothing in his game that makes you say "He'll never succeed because ....."... Similarly, there is nothing in his game that makes you say, "He'll be great because...."
I agree with Vers on this. I think Manziel is a huge boom or bust. He has excellent QB tools, is smart, extremely competitive and is a natural leader. Really the only thing that can stop him from becoming a very good QB (besides injury) is himself, which is what makes him boom or bust to me.
One thing's certain: all the 'measurables' that were used to predict his failure are being handled, one by one. Given his learning trajectory, it would seem that he has the ability to assemble his own version of "the total QB package." He'll never be a prototypical QB like a Roethlisberger, but he has the potential to be something very special and unique... almost a one-of-a-kind.
That lump residing in his skull is perhaps the only real "x factor."
Because one by one, all the other question marks are fading.
I find it kind of funny. Many didn't give us any chance to win this game. Now that they were wrong "It's only the 49'ers".
Seems rather disingenuous to me. Yes they aren't a highly ranked team, but they'd just beaten the Bears and had won twice as many games as we had going into Sundays game.
I was happy with the win and thought they played well as a team on both sides of the ball. Was it perfect? No, but it was progress.
I gave us no chance because we're BAD - Terrible Bad - and they'd won a few more than us. However, they are still a very bad team, too.
It was the NFL equivalent of a Bum fight or a Cripple fight. Yes, we ran it well, but that's like congratulating the Bengals for running all over US... everyone runs all over us. Well, the 9ers have an even worse run defense than us as it turns out.
I don't think its such a hard read. The kid should be good to great the x factor is his maturity does he breakdown to old ways?
Good to great? I hope you're right, I just don't see it...<sigh>
Stetson I know you are not a big fan of JM...and thats ok. Just for the record before my opinion gets shoved under the rug cause I'm a homer.
Good to great I was saying before the draft. He would have to spend at least a year being tutored or it might not work. I was also stating before the draft.
Like GM said, Johnny has a long way to go and we all know he can bust out in an instant, but wouldn't it be really crazy if Johnny is the one who unites all of us who have battled for years?
Like GM said, Johnny has a long way to go and we all know he can bust out in an instant, but wouldn't it be really crazy if Johnny is the one who unites all of us who have battled for years?
It would. Especially because most of us were really against the pick. It would be so Browns like if this character becomes the one we have waited so long for. It would be fun and funny.
He had me in 2012, the first time I laid eyes on him, when I watched him beat 'Bama. He's a winner.
Like GM said, Johnny has a long way to go and we all know he can bust out in an instant, but wouldn't it be really crazy if Johnny is the one who unites all of us who have battled for years?
It would. Especially because most of us were really against the pick. It would be so Browns like if this character becomes the one we have waited so long for. It would be fun and funny.
He had me in 2012, the first time I laid eyes on him, when I watched him beat 'Bama. He's a winner.
Perhaps, but we all know he turned into suckiness.
Right. But during his second year in the league people were probably saying many of the same things they are saying about Manziel (and with more positivity).
So where is this "Johnny is a winner" coming from?
At Texas A&M:
2012 record 11-2 2013 record 9-4
Didn't win a National Championship
In HS
2009 record 9-5 2010 record 10-2
Didn't win a State Championship
Those win/lose records are not bad but are nothing special. He has never won a championship at any level. So what makes Johnny a "winner"? One win over Alabama?
On October 5, 2003 Tim Couch led the Browns to a 33-13 victory over the Pittsburgh Steelers. Does that make him a winner?
So where is this "Johnny is a winner" coming from?
At Texas A&M:
2012 record 11-2 2013 record 9-4
Didn't win a National Championship
In HS
2009 record 9-5 2010 record 10-2
Didn't win a State Championship
Those win/lose records are not bad but are nothing special. He has never won a championship at any level. So what makes Johnny a "winner"? One win over Alabama?
On October 5, 2003 Tim Couch led the Browns to a 33-13 victory over the Pittsburgh Steelers. Does that make him a winner?
Don't know who said he's a "winner"... he's a hell of a competitor though.
Can't speak for HS but those college teams had no reason to be the SEC title hunt. He made them much better teams. 10 wins in the SEC is upper realm college football.
jmho yes, no championship, their defense was pretty bad if I remember.
We've been in every game, we've never quit, we just need to find a way to be better, we all believe in each other, we need to dig deep and find a way to right the ship....
I don't think its such a hard read. The kid should be good to great the x factor is his maturity does he breakdown to old ways?
Good to great? I hope you're right, I just don't see it...<sigh>
What is it you see in his play that makes you think Manziel can't be a good player, or is it you just don't like him because you wanted somebody else?
Most of my issues with him are physical.
1. From the first time I saw him back in college until today his footwork as been terrible (although I will admit it has gotten better, it's still not good).
2. He can't see over the lineman, our or their's which causes him to have to move around more than would otherwise be necessary (making it harder for the linemen to know how best to block for him) and causes him to have to throw at crazy angles making #3 even worse.
3. His arm strength may be fine when he's got his feet set (they're rarely set see #1) but when he's not squared up, he puts up some really questionable velocity passes.
4. His accuracy is okay on intermediate passes when he's on the run but out of the pocket he's been missing guys (I would assume because he's trying to throw over or around bigger players). His long balls at least get in the area of the receivers but they're not hitting guys in stride. Most of his long completions are to Benjamin because he's fast enough to compensate. Much like he'd just throw it up for Mike Evans and hope that he came down with it.
5. In addition to accuracy, his arm strength is dependent upon his putting his whole body into throws. He's just not strong enough. Time will tell but I think he's looking at much more than just his elbow issues moving forward as he puts more and more stress on that arm and shoulder at different angles every time.
That's what I've got off the top of my head, with more time I could go deeper with the physical stuff and then we can proceed to what a headcase he is...
This makes me think you have no idea what you are talking about.
This on all points, maybe he was confusing Conner Shaw or Austin Davis with Manziel. The velocity on his passes is quite impressive throwing on the run and he has a super quick release when he throws from the pocket. And his accuracy...it has looked pretty good at all ranges.
I'll make another point about Manziels height being questioned, I've yet to see any batted balls at the line of scrimmage. Though I have seen several from McCown and he towers over Manziel, it's about seeing your throwing lanes and Manziel seems to have a knack at squeezing the ball through tight spots.
I think of you as one of the most knowledgeable, even-keel, and fair posters here, but I do think that reply was some unnecessary "chin music" to Stetson. Its fine to disagree, but no need to put someone in their place with a hammer and a stake. Some of Stetson points re: footwork and Manziel's inability to see over linemen are legit. Brady Quinn said in Sunday's telecast that Manziel's footwork needed work. On one play, JM was looking right and then looked left to throw an out pattern, but did not reset his feet for the throw to the left, resulting in an overthrow by a lot. Manziel himself talked about his difficulty seeing over linemen when he talked about having to make "faith throws" - throws where a guy should be even though he can't see him. As for arm strength, I think his arm is average to above average, but not great, and certainly not elite. I do think his accuracy suffers under the rush and when he's on the run.
For me, his shortcomings are his size - not just his height - his frame, and his style of play - which, IMO, is chaotic and prone to alternating big plays and disastrously bad plays. Adlibbing is not a plan; not a system that is replicable. As a result of those two factors its my belief that the guy will struggle to stay healthy enough to play more than half of the games in a given season. I'll admit to my prejudice towards any QB with his size; I want a large QB, like Roeth or Flacco, who despite injuries this year, have been very durable for the bulk of their careers.
I think Manziel played his best game as a pro last Sunday, but you have to excuse me if I temper that with the knowledge that it WAS the 49ers, whose D might be worse than ours. I just really hate to see this fanbase become so polarized, because inevitably the debate gets personal, and people who have traditionally gotten along well, or maybe even just coexisted, are at each others throats. It is possible to disagree with a person's POV without making it personal.
Dave, I see you somewhat the same way you see steve, but I think that was one of the worst posts you've ever made.
People are failing to see the big picture here. Can Manziel play football or not? Period. Who cares if he's 5'0 or 7'3? Can the guy play football? Weeden had prototypical size but he can't play football. How many QBs in the NFL have the prototypical size, but can't play? There's a ton. You said you love prototype size. Why? Would you rather have Weeden or Manziel? I mean give me a guy who can play football.
The other mistake people like Stetson make is every single critique is made from the perspective that Manziel is a finished product or like he's been in the league for 5 years. I love critiques where guys say " he can't do this" or "he can't do that" as if it's a foregone conclusion on guys who are just getting their feet under them with experience and still have a lot of growing and developing to do. Where is the big picture thinking in that?
The best thing that could possibly happen for the Browns is Manziel becomes the guy yet so many people want to see him fail. Browns fans love being losers and love rooting for losers. They love to keep the losing going. When you know nothing else, that norm becomes the comfort zone.
Thanks for the compliment - I know I'm not in Steve's league in terms of football savvy, but I do try to be fair and I try to be consistent. Sorry you didn't like the post, but no offense taken.
My post was probably too long-winded. My point about JM and his size is simply this: I think he's going to get killed. His small frame and helter skelter style are, sooner or later, going to expose him to some massive shots. He's no good to anyone hurt, and I think its inevitable he will be. That doesn't mean I wish it to happen, but I'm expecting it.
I don't want us to pass on Lynch, or Cook, or Goff because we're blinded by a shooting star.
Good point about Johnny not being a finished product. A lot of the criticism he receives are things from the past (granted, sometimes the not so distant past) that are improving.
Example being Stetson's comment about Johnny being a body thrower. Stetson is absolutely right about that. This was actually one of my biggest concerns/criticisms about him coming into the draft. When Manziel feels he needs to get a little something extra on the ball (either more zip to fit the ball through a tight window or more distance for those longer passes) he has a tendency to use his whole body and try to power the ball throwing from his shoulder. This tends to not add much to the throw other than slow down his release and telegraph where the ball is going (my mistake at that time was thinking it was the result of lack of arm strength which isn't the case. I think it is just poor mechanics and bad habits). He still does this, however, I see it significantly less often. So he is definitely shown improvement in that area.
He is kind of a douchebag and I hate rooting for him. But I do because he is our Qb. I would love to have a Qb leading this team that I truly enjoyed rooting for.
He is an exciting fun player to watch. I hate how he makes me feel guilty for enjoying watching him play. But lord help me, I do.
Battered Browns Fan Syndrome has me convinced that if he does become a franchise Qb and leads us to our 1st super bowl appearance that he will go on a bender and pull a Barrett Robbins the day before the super bowl. I hate that he gives me that feeling.
I can't stop watching his feet. Great ones keep dancing until they plant and pop. His stop and he is locked down (another part of his telegraphing sometimes). Hard to be a pocket passer, well, without a pocket. So I chalk it up to something needing more work, and I have seen what you mention.
I will root for him as a starter because I am a fan. But I also have trust issues remaining. My dear departed grandmother, when i asked sabot something, wisely said, "Go; know." We are in that process, and I would love for the answer to be clearly in our favor or just as clearly not, whichever one before the draft.
For those who favor him, hope you are right and he gives us a bunch of proof in hard games like this weekend. I hope all of us also have a fair and equal set of measurements in mind about what the negatives will be against him as the man starting, going forward in the here and now. Trying to get this out better than I am: We must have a metric of what our QB must be going forward, and it should also disqualify a player for QB, barring injury need (best man available), if we see the fails. I agree upfront that QB is a position always in progress; but for those on the board who say we need to see what we have in JM, the gut check is at hand. Either way, stop evaluating and start playing football. Good luck however it shakes out. Just acknowledge the decision if it is fairly made.
yea i was shocked at what people said about your post.
Quote:
This makes me think you have no idea what you are talking about.
I would think the guy that said that and those that agreed were the ones that dont know what they are talking about... especially the part about being to short to see over the d-line. since the cocaine cowboy said it himself. lmao...
yea i was shocked at what people said about your post.
Quote:
This makes me think you have no idea what you are talking about.
I would think the guy that said that and those that agreed were the ones that dont know what they are talking about... especially the part about being to short to see over the d-line. since the cocaine cowboy said it himself. lmao...
I am confused as to who you are referring to here...
This makes me think you have no idea what you are talking about.
I don't take any offense to that, you can think whatever you want. I'm somewhat surprised because I think that might have been my most objective post about Manziel up to this point. I think he has improved some, in some areas but it still appears to me that his ceiling is Doug Flutie and I think we need better. Oh, Doug Flutie who has an unstable off the field reputation...
I keep coming back to the FACT that McCown beat him out and has played objectively better with this same cast of characters on offense than Johnny has. But, but, but he's only a "rookie" in his second year!!! I know, I know but we're talking about Josh McCown and the difference is more than can be explained by just experience, some of it is just the ability to play football at this level.
I've been as happy as anyone when Manziel has had success in these last few games, there have been times, but it hasn't clouded my ability to see that there's a mighty far piece to go before he'd start on most teams in this league and I just don't think he can get there. I truly do hope, if he is given the chance (which I'm against) that he becomes what the Johnny fans hope he does, I just don't think it will happen.
