Garrett has made it pretty clear why he is the top guy.
Twelve is another story. I want Garoppolo and most likely it will take that pick and maybe more to get him.
If that goes off the table then pick twelve becomes BPA. Unless they are sold on one the quarterbacks and believe that to get "their" guy they have to move to get him. Then it becomes a matter of what it takes.
In the end I want a quarterback (if they can get a guy who fits) and and an elite pass rusher.
1 is Garrett. I think my head will explode if we do anything else.
At 12 I would look at Hooker, Foster, Howard, and maybe a QB. My ideal scenario is that we have those options at 12, and he teams from 13-15 are dying to trade up for a specific player. I would probably not trade below 15, though I might for the right deal.
However, I would be ecstatic if we came out of round 1 with Garrett and Hooker, or Garrett and Foster.
I would be OK with most of that. I think that I would want a RT or C more than anything else on the OL. I think that we have a pair of top quality Guards, and a backup G, Drango, who played surprisingly well when thrown into duty once he found his NFL footing.
Our 2 biggest OL holes are the 2 position where we lost top talent; C and RT. I want to address those holes more than I want to add another Guard, even a very good Guard.
Yeah, I'd say so. My hope is Garrett at 1 and trade 12 for Garrapolo if that is what it takes to get him. I'd be happy with MG and a stud safety - or maybe a QB - at 12.
Trade the #1 pick to the Titans for their 2019 1st rounder an....just kidding.
#1 - Garrett #12 - Jeez, who knows. Depends what happens with Tyrod Taylor and Pryor. We may need a QB or WR here or maybe not. Heck, anything else that happens in free agency could impact this selection. #33 - I'd offer this to NE for Garoppolo. If they bite, cool. If not, see #12.
Diam, why don't you think that Trub couldn't beat out Marquis Williams, who is currently not even on an NFL roster?
I think I already know the answer[s,] and I suggest you do a bit of research before you commit to Trub as being our first overall pick.
I did Vers .. I watched a bunch of tape on him .. I like the kid a lot .. and in watching the TAPE of MG .. the more I watch .. the less impressed,I become ..
I still have tape left to watch on both .. not a final conclusion as of yet ...
I replied to U about him not beating out Williams out in the other thread ..
Yeah, just saw that and I replied back. Would love to see your thoughts on that. But, we can continue this discussion on that thread. Fits better there.
1 is Garrett. I think my head will explode if we do anything else.
At 12 I would look at Hooker, Foster, Howard, and maybe a QB. My ideal scenario is that we have those options at 12, and he teams from 13-15 are dying to trade up for a specific player. I would probably not trade below 15, though I might for the right deal.
However, I would be ecstatic if we came out of round 1 with Garrett and Hooker, or Garrett and Foster.
As I was saying before the combine, Garrett. You just can't pass on a guy like that, I don't care what you need. Oh...we need a pass rusher....lucky break there.
As for 12, much depends on what we do in FA, but I stick on the defensive side of the ball. We could go receiver...Corey Davis might be there. He would be a nice addition, but I'd go with the best corner available. I think the two cream safeties will be gone. Both of Hooker and Adams will probably be gone by the 12 pick. I guess Hooker could drop due to his injury. My concern then is what do other teams know that I don't? If he's not drafted by 11, I wait and see if he falls to our 2nd round pick.
There are still some freakish corners and safties later in this draft. It's a deep class.
#1 - Myles Garrett - Too good to pass up. Will make everyone on D better.
#12 -
1st Choice - Trade #12 to NE for QB Jimmy Garrapolo 2nd Choice - Mitch Trubisky QB North Carolina falls to us at 12. 3rd Choice - Mike Williams WR Clemson if we lose Terrelle Pryor. 4th Choice - DeShaun Watson QB Clemson. 5th Choice - Ryan Ramcyzk OT Wisconsin. Bookend Tackles to solidify the line.
#12 is wide open. There are several names I would be glad to see there, (in no particular order) Adams, Hooker, Latimore, Fornette, Trubisky, Watson, and Foster. There are probably others I can't think of off the top of my head. If we are able to trade for Garoppolo, I wouldn't be angry if it costs us this pick as well.
You really think Quincy Wilson will last until the forth ??
I think so, I have a 3rd grade on him due to his backpedal and him playing grab ass because he is slow to turn. The depth probably will push him down the board a bit. Good player that could have used another year in college but he could play in this league for a long time with the right coaching.
You really think Quincy Wilson will last until the forth ??
I think so, I have a 3rd grade on him due to his backpedal and him playing grab ass because he is slow to turn. The depth probably will push him down the board a bit. Good player that could have used another year in college but he could play in this league for a long time with the right coaching.
That's a very fair assessment. I've had him ranked ~8th best CB in the draft, but after this week he's in the teens. But do you take age into account? He's one of the younger corners and I know some teams absolutely love young players who look talented. I certainly think there's going to be some good corners left in the 4th.
Yeah, I forget which commentator said it this morning, but they quoted an NFL scout who said that this year you would be able to get a corner in round 4 who would normally be drafted in either rounds 2 or 3 in other years.
Yeah, I forget which commentator said it this morning, but they quoted an NFL scout who said that this year you would be able to get a corner in round 4 who would normally be drafted in either rounds 2 or 3 in other years.
I think this is probably the most talented defensive back class ever. I would like to come out with at least 2 or 3 corners as well as a starting free safety.
I think this is probably the most talented defensive back class ever. I would like to come out with at least 2 or 3 corners as well as a starting free safety.
Yep. I think now that the combine is over the next logical step might be to open up some position based threads. Really try to discuss a wide variety of guys. Stimulate some good conversations.
Currently I'm finalizing my WR list and will hopefully have it posted within the next few days.
I think this is probably the most talented defensive back class ever. I would like to come out with at least 2 or 3 corners as well as a starting free safety.
This are the Browns, we will draft some DB scrubs on the 3rd round or something.
Remember, Browns are genius drafting, so they allways stay away from the draft strength...
I wouldn't mind Fornette at 12 though. As long as he's willing to pass block. Guy's a real good RB, built for the AFC North. He's done it for three years.
Definitely an upgrade over the Crow. And I like the Crow, but I think Fornette will show himself to be a good one
1. Garrett 12. in order: Hooker, Adams (LSU), S.Thomas, Allen (Bama), Humphrey, Lattimore, Trade Down if can get good value, Watson, Jones (UW), Mahomes, Trubisky, Conley
That's kind of off the top of my head. I'm probably forgetting people. Hopefully I'll have time to look more in depth closer to the draft.
I think Fournette falls to the late first maybe early 2nd. 240 with him in preparations means next year u can probably pencil him in showing up to camp at 260.
Yea he was ripped and 240 so whats it gonna be when he doesnt have to prepare for the combines. He gets a boatload of cash and no supervision. I hope I am wrong and the kid does great but he has bust written all over his big ass lol
Yea he was ripped and 240 so whats it gonna be when he doesnt have to prepare for the combines. He gets a boatload of cash and no supervision. I hope I am wrong and the kid does great but he has bust written all over his big ass lol
Plenty of guys can get a boatload of cash and no supervision. He's 240 pounds of what looks to be muscle. He fast and powerful.
What makes you think he's so at risk of all this verses anyone else? He's done well for LSU for three years, was a star prospect going into college too.
I've been excited about the guy since he was a freshman at LSU. I'm still excited about him.
I think he'd do well for us, provided that he knows how to pass block. Because, he's a 3 down back when it's 3rd and reasonable IMO. And he looks good for the AFC North where a bruiser does well. Cold weather, playing outside and all
I am not a fan of Fournette. He is not a 3-down back.
He is an athletic freak, But, he ain't no Zeke.
Totally agree. If we want a three down back that is also a pass threat deep, go with McCaf. Fournette has poor hands and catching skills from what I've seen so far.
Choosing who we want with the 12 is really difficult because we have no idea who'll be there. I mean, if Allen is there, I'd like him too. lol.
Same with if Adams falls to 12. Same with Trubisky. It's just hard to say
the rumbling is that Allen is going to fall because of his shoulders. I don't care bout his shoulders, he was dominate in college. if he is there we should get him.
Just imagine this front 7
Garret, Allen, Shelton, Ogba Collins, Hightower, and Kirskey.
Yea he was ripped and 240 so whats it gonna be when he doesnt have to prepare for the combines. He gets a boatload of cash and no supervision. I hope I am wrong and the kid does great but he has bust written all over his big ass lol
Plenty of guys can get a boatload of cash and no supervision. He's 240 pounds of what looks to be muscle. He fast and powerful.
What makes you think he's so at risk of all this verses anyone else? He's done well for LSU for three years, was a star prospect going into college too.
I've been excited about the guy since he was a freshman at LSU. I'm still excited about him.
I think he'd do well for us, provided that he knows how to pass block. Because, he's a 3 down back when it's 3rd and reasonable IMO. And he looks good for the AFC North where a bruiser does well. Cold weather, playing outside and all
Just weary of RBs that add weight Trich, Lacy then i get more cautious as he didnt want to play in the bowl game. Not a knock on his skill but depth of the position and his size combined with the bowl game could push him to late first early 2nd. Now if we were to take him, I would be just as excited as anyone cause I see his ptential. I do however expect him to slide and you are really gonna have to push him to keep the weight down or he will be a big bust.
Choosing who we want with the 12 is really difficult because we have no idea who'll be there. I mean, if Allen is there, I'd like him too. lol.
Same with if Adams falls to 12. Same with Trubisky. It's just hard to say
the rumbling is that Allen is going to fall because of his shoulders. I don't care bout his shoulders, he was dominate in college. if he is there we should get him.
Just imagine this front 7
Garret, Allen, Shelton, Ogba Collins, Hightower, and Kirskey.
I like Hightower, but don't see how he fits here. Like has been said, we don't play with 3 LBs that much. If possible, I'd prefer to get someone else. Someone in the secondary or on the offensive line.
But Garret, Allen, Shelton, Ogba sounds like a formidable defensive line. That's for sure.
Just weary of RBs that add weight Trich, Lacy then i get more cautious as he didnt want to play in the bowl game. Not a knock on his skill but depth of the position and his size combined with the bowl game could push him to late first early 2nd. Now if we were to take him, I would be just as excited as anyone cause I see his ptential. I do however expect him to slide and you are really gonna have to push him to keep the weight down or he will be a big bust.
If he isn't showing up fat, what's it matter what he weighs, as long as he's quick enough to play the position? I'm just wondering if there's any clues as to him ever looking out of shape.
I've seen big guys who got too big. Eddie Lacey and Lendale White was overweight often. But Fournette has never looked like them to me. I think he looks like a beast. I think he'll stay a beast. You don't reach his level without a good work ethic.
And as for not playing, I don't blame him one bit. He dealt with injuries, was looking forward to the NFL, and they were playing Louisville in an optional bowl game.
I don't think he's gonna drop much at all to be honest. He'd be a pretty good pick for us at 12 IMO. The only thing I worry about, which I worry about with all rookie RBs is pass blocking. That's something that I like about the Crow. He's a decent blocker
What happens if he ends up on a team like the Browns and they are losing late in the season? Does he have a "mystery injury" and sits out at the end of the year?
What about when his contract is on it's last year? Does he not play in the second half of the year because he doesn't want to ruin his next payday?
What about his teammates? They know the scoop. Do you think they will ever fully trust a guy who thought more about himself than the team?
Nope..........not a fan of guys sitting out when they can play.
I don't expect you to agree. So, let's just say we view it completely different.
If Barnett is not there then I take the best player available. Preferably a CB. If a miracle happens and Allen slips down then I would do whatever it takes to land Allen even if we have to move up.
12. Reuben Foster (hopefully his little stunt at the combine lets him drop)
Browns potentially grab the best players at their position. At some point I think Collins, Foster, and Kirksey can switch around playing all three LB spots. Really solidifies non-base packages with different combinations.
Having Garrett, Bryant, Shelton, and Ogbah playing the front four and interchanging LBs makes for interesting blitz packages.
If Browns can't get Foster at #12, take Hassan Reddick at #33. Even there I think they might miss out.
I wonder how many CB are taken before #12. People thinking there are plenty to choose this year might give Cleveland a can't pass. If Foster is gone, I most certainly think of taking a CB.
I think by midnight Friday you guys clamoring for Defense at 12 are going to be seriously looking at changing your mind. At least in the Secondary. ONLY exception would be if Hooker was there at 12.
These guys are being linked to being HOT on the likes of Jefferson, Cyprien, Johnson, Bouye and Gilmore. All Safeties and Corners.
If the stud DBs are gone I'm thinking more n more that Howard would be a good pick at 12...like him better than the top 2 WRs...there are some very good WRs to be had later.
1. Garrett 12. Fournette if he gets by Carolina, Jets, etc. unless Allen is there.
Rb is the one position we are ok right now.
Not really 100% correct. We still need a great three down running back that can match up well with great hands and can block. We did nothing here last year in FA or the draft. Although I'm pimpimg McC
I really want a TE and while I'd rather wait til the 2nd I could seriously support Howard at 12
Plenty of TE's to pick from. Great TE class. Pretty sure every team that wants a TE should get a good one.
A good prospect? Sure. A good player? No chance. It's all luck but your chances of him being a plus contributer increase if you take the most complete prospect. Even if it is the best TE class in years it'll be lucky to have 2 or 3 end up being top 15 TEs
DeShaun Watson at #1 Qb, Clemson Amara Darboh at #12, Wr, Michigan
Wait 3 years and see.
?Garappolo, for #12?
Wasting that 2nd 1st round pick on another teams cast off with no real experience is about as smart as buying a new home 2 weeks before the real estate crash of 2008.
If we don't use the 12 for a bigger plan (JG) then as we missed out on Jefferson and Cyprien we definitely need a safety. I'd use the 12 for one (or, package another late pick to move up a few to get a stud safety?). That is, only, if we don't ship it to NE.
We've done so far just what I hoped the FO would do. Use FA for the O and then use most of the draft, especially the 1st and 2nd rounds on D. If they see a good O player they like then by all means take him but I feel they can now really build the D with our picks.
Most likely Garrett, my only reservation is that I watched his game with LSU and spent the entire game wondering where he was. His numbers look good against small teams with a few exceptions. His best sack total in 2016 was against that powerhouse U of Texas San Antonio with 4.5 and 8 tackles. His game against Bama was sorta ok.. 7 tackles but only 3 of them solo.
Pluto is Roman...lol Gyro is not somebodies name...its a Spicy Lamb Meatloaf
back to the thread. Garrett seems to be more and more the lock pick as we could have our QB at 12.
This is the most ever that we have done pre-draft before. If we don't trade away some 2nd rounders for JG...we will have 3 more impact picks. OJ Howard might be one of them leaving more than probable 2 defensive picks in the 2nd round. If one of 3 DBs is there at 12. Adams, Lattimore and Hooker I think we pull the trigger on them.
P.S. I'm still not sure who my 12th pick would be. Too many variable right now to say.
I'm slowly becoming open to this idea. I'd still rather give up 3 2nd rounders for him. Or Brock (we eat his salary for 2016) and 2 second rounders. (incidentally, if the 3 2nd rounders I mentioned average being the 50th pick, they add up to be equivalent to the 12th overall pick, just sayin )
P.S. I'm still not sure who my 12th pick would be. Too many variable right now to say.
I'm slowly becoming open to this idea. I'd still rather give up 3 2nd rounders for him. Or Brock (we eat his salary for 2016) and 2 second rounders. (incidentally, if the 3 2nd rounders I mentioned average being the 50th pick, they add up to be equivalent to the 12th overall pick, just sayin )
I'm becoming more open to the idea as well. Obviously I'd like to give up as little as possible and if we could pull it off without including the #12 pick, that would be awesome
I've been thinking along similar lines. If we don't use #12 to get JG, I think it's the one of our top 5 picks to go offense; Fournette, Howard, Ross...
Garrett at 1...and if we had to stay at 12...I'd say TE OJ Howard...(I expect S Adams, Hooker, RB Fournette to be gone) CB seems like its a toss up of who's even the #1 CB this year...And I would look for defense in round 2 (Budda Baker and Jourdan Lewis) or if QB Watson is there.
I'm kinda thinkin' if Jimmy Garopollo stays put we may very well trade up from number 12 to get a QB.
Wouldn't surprise me.
We may not need to. Lot's of team who needed a QB signed FA qbs.
They may still draft one, but the odds are less that they will. We may not even have to use the 12th pick.
I think we might move up from 33 and get to around 25 to select a qb.
I see what you're sayin' but I don't know if that is going to turn out to be correct or not. Right now we've got Kessler, Hogan & Osweiler. I don't think we'll keep Osweiler. It wouldn't surprise me if we traded up in order to get Mitch Trubisky.
I'm kinda thinkin' if Jimmy Garopollo stays put we may very well trade up from number 12 to get a QB.
Our front office values draft picks over almost everything (I don't think that is up for debate at this point). I don't see them trading draft picks to trade up that high in the draft.
I think we either take a QB at 12 (unlikely), select a non-QB (more likely), or trade down (likeliest).
I'm kinda thinkin' if Jimmy Garopollo stays put we may very well trade up from number 12 to get a QB.
Wouldn't surprise me.
NO! This draft and next years draft is going to define this team the FO and the coaching staff for the next 10 years. They better take the BPA and not screw it up this year. IMO they should use every pick they have left this year and take the BPA to make the team better. Tons of great players this year. Just no standouts at QB. Let a QB fall to us and not stretch for one. Just let it happen and take the BP'sA.
I think I changed my tune. After the FA, I think they want to just roll with Kessler and since he is so good on the crossing routes, I think we will draft O.J. Howard because a great TE can hide some of Kessler issues.
I don't recall Mack being a good trade, sorry. That draft was loaded with LB talent and we traded down twice and picked a center and some no name Wr's...
FWIW, I've seen a lot of mock drafts have these QBs falling fast, and many list Trubisky at 12 for us. Perhaps these analysts are catching up to what teams are thinking?
Yeah, I said in another post somewhere that I think this class of QB's is like the class of Teddy B and Carr and even Johnny M. Everyone thought Teddy was a sure fire #1 pick and some even thought Johnny M would push him down to #2 and he would be #1. I think this class is like that. Free falling, I just don't know how much.
There is no option, there is one guy you take. We all know who that is too. I'd be pissed off actually if we end up taking a QB. No joke. My end, final realistic picks:
There is no option, there is one guy you take. We all know who that is too. I'd be pissed off actually if we end up taking a QB. No joke. My end, final realistic picks:
#1: Garrett #12: Jamal Adams
I agree with you that there is only one option, but it is interesting to at least explore the other possibilities.
(Side note: I don't think Jamal Adams makes it to #12. Like 0% chance don't think he makes it.)
Jets need help elsewhere and I think the Chargers will snag up Hooker. That leaves Buffalo as our only next threat IMO. It's a possibility that my fingers are heavily crossed for, but if he's not there then I'd say whoever is the best CB, call his name.
I agree with you that there is only one option, but it is interesting to at least explore the other possibilities.
(Side note: I don't think Jamal Adams makes it to #12. Like 0% chance don't think he makes it.)
Agreed. I seriously doubt Adams will be there at 12. Hooker too (I don't watch much Ohio State, but watched some of him recently, he looks like a good one too).
There's guys I'd want more than a QB at 12, but it depends on who is there. Someone like Fournette, Adams, Allen, Thomas or Hooker would be no brainers IMO. But I don't think any of them will be there.
I wouldn't be too upset if we left 12 with Trubisky (1st Option) or Watson (2nd Option). I think there's gonna be a lot of teams needing QBs next year.
Jets need help elsewhere and I think the Chargers will snag up Hooker. That leaves Buffalo as our only next threat IMO. It's a possibility that my fingers are heavily crossed for, but if he's not there then I'd say whoever is the best CB, call his name.
No way. Major mistake.
Who's the best CB after Lattimore? And I don't want anything to do with Lattimore. His hammy history is risky.
These guys know this is a weak OL draft, so we made the move in FA for upgrading it.
We also know it's a deep CB draft and about 2 rounds deep at Safety.
This is set up perfect to address the Defense and Offense at 1&12 with STUDS.
Garrett at #1 Whoever we like between Howard, Williams, Davis at 12. The ONLY player I take ahead of those 3 is Garoppolo.
Then comes the CB and Safety duo. Conley, White. Baker, Williams.
Locks to go before 12 Garrett, Thomas, Lattimore, Adams,
Now we have the group that most will be in there but some could slip Barnett, Fournette, Mike Williams, OJ Howard, Allen, Hooker,
Now we have a group that could jump in Reuben Foster, Trubisky, John Ross, Mahomes, Watson, Dalvin Cook, McCafrey, Jabril Peppers, David Njoku, Taco Charlton, McCafrey
We all know there are always and I mean always a couple surprises on draft night of guys going way early and a couple studs slipping.
There are teams that like Barnett over Allen, I think thats a big one to watch. Also Bengals have a real love going on for the bama guys right now in Reuben Foster and Jonathon Allen.
I could easily see a situation where we are trying to decide between Allen, Hooker, Trubisky, Mahomes
In that case give me Allen and I'll take Marcus Williams at 33. When your DL is that sticky you don't need an All-Pro safety, which I'm not even sure Hooker is.
I like Hooker a lot but I gotta admit, I like Budda Baker just as good and to be honest, I am liking him more and more as I watch more of this kid. Really reminds me a lot of the honey Badger.
Jets need help elsewhere and I think the Chargers will snag up Hooker. That leaves Buffalo as our only next threat IMO. It's a possibility that my fingers are heavily crossed for, but if he's not there then I'd say whoever is the best CB, call his name.
No way. Major mistake.
Who's the best CB after Lattimore? And I don't want anything to do with Lattimore. His hammy history is risky.
These guys know this is a weak OL draft, so we made the move in FA for upgrading it.
We also know it's a deep CB draft and about 2 rounds deep at Safety.
This is set up perfect to address the Defense and Offense at 1&12 with STUDS.
Garrett at #1 Whoever we like between Howard, Williams, Davis at 12. The ONLY player I take ahead of those 3 is Garoppolo.
Then comes the CB and Safety duo. Conley, White. Baker, Williams.
Yeah I have no shame in admitting I don't follow college outside Ohio State. So, if what you say is true, then let's look at that WR Davis from Western Michigan.
I like Hooker a lot but I gotta admit, I like Budda Baker just as good and to be honest, I am liking him more and more as I watch more of this kid. Really reminds me a lot of the honey Badger.
I'll be honest, I don't know anything about Baker. I have heard we're very interested in him tho
Garrett at #1, and if Jonathan Allen is somehow still there at #12, I think you have to take him. Other possibly available no-brainers at 12 would be Adams, Hooker, or Howard - but Allen before any of them IMO.
Hypothetical 1. Garrett DE 1b. Allen DT 2. Budda Baker 2b. [censored] Tabor 3. Sydney Jones
Sashi walks up to the platform drops his Mic and walks off stage lol
BTW I have a 1st round grade on all 5 and 4 was in my top 15 at the end of the season and I felt guilty for not having Budda in it. 2 were my elite tier 1 talents .
When you hear the Browns are considering Leonard Fournette with the first pick remember that the rumors started with this excerpt from a Jason La Canfora article/column:
Quote:
Some have suggested to me that Fournette is even in play at No. 1 with the Browns. Yes, you read that correctly. I don’t see that happening, and in the end, I suspect the Browns take pass rusher Myles Garrett. But then again, the Browns are capable of some extreme curve balls in that front office and their version of analytics tends to swing outside of convention. Maybe someone believes the devaluation of running backs has gone too far.
When you hear the Browns are considering Leonard Fournette with the first pick remember that the rumors started with this excerpt from a Jason La Canfora article/column:
Quote:
Some have suggested to me that Fournette is even in play at No. 1 with the Browns. Yes, you read that correctly. I don’t see that happening, and in the end, I suspect the Browns take pass rusher Myles Garrett. But then again, the Browns are capable of some extreme curve balls in that front office and their version of analytics tends to swing outside of convention. Maybe someone believes the devaluation of running backs has gone too far.
Maybe not. None of us know who goes where. We can only project. Being there at 12 isn't unrealistic. It's not like i am calling to draft him at #33.
If he is there, he is my pick. I agree with you, to drop to 12 will require some nail biting and good luck. That is why I'd like to see a couple of QB's taken off the board before then.
I'd even consider trading up a few slots to get him. He would have a huge impact on our O.
After him, I might not consider another O player until you are digging around for gold in the 4th round or later.
I admit I skim read this thread, but it seems people are discounting how good Hooker really is.
He very well could end up being the top player in this draft. I am not sure anyone can match his skill set. The tackling criticisms are way overblown. The range and athleticism are being undervalued.
That's why I take Garrett and then trade up for Hooker if I think I have to. There's two impact players out of the 1st round. If we can then pick two CBs I wouldn't care about the rest of the draft.
I agree. Garrett #1. Then trade up for Adams or Hooker.
If they can't trade up, I would not hate on WR Williams. Then take Baker out of Washington in the Second round.
I hope we don't reach on a QB and instead give Kessler a shot. Kessler proved competent last season and should only improve with a year experience as well as a better offensive line. If we pass on a QB, we can put he right pieces in place to be very competitive this year.
There is no doubt that everyone on this thread will be watching the development of Trubisky, Watson and Mahomes throughout the next three years. Wether they play for the Browns or not.
As far as RB's go, I think the duo of Crow and Johnson are solid. Lets see Hue give them the rock more often and see what we have.
No WR or RB at 12! Trubisky or if he is gone then a good Defender is there for us...BPA on the D. Possibly OJ if he's still on the board...the kid is more valuable then any WR in this draft! jmho
Just remember there are about 20 players going top 10...lol
there is a scenario though that if there is a run on QBs (at least 2 or more), RBs (2 or more), WR (1), OJ, A special special defensive player will be there for us at 12. Hooker, Allen (cause of the injury thing) and/or Barnett. jmho
If you want Kessler at QB we have to change the offense. Go straight WCO. He doesn't have the arm talent or accuracy on the long ball to run the down the field offense. Hue does know the WCO and can run that so if Kessler is our QB of the future then we better start building an offense he can run right now. No reason to put him in an O he isn't suited for. That is the offense that Denver ran when Brock was there.... WCO, Of course, they HAD a running game and a great D.
With him at QB and not much of a running game our defense would have to be top five to win any games. We sure as hell aren't going to outduel anyone on offense and with a mediocre running game, our D is going to be on the field a LOT.
Make that Adams and Thomas...so there are 6 definite top 10. Now if there is a Run on QBs, Possibly a RB or two throw in a WR...One of those 6 will be there at #12
Except that we will have a good running game. We had one last year, we just didn't run it enough, and now we have upgraded the Oline and we still have a draft where we are bound to select a O-lineman somewhere in the mix.
If you want Kessler at QB we have to change the offense. Go straight WCO. He doesn't have the arm talent or accuracy on the long ball to run the down the field offense. Hue does know the WCO and can run that so if Kessler is our QB of the future then we better start building an offense he can run right now. No reason to put him in an O he isn't suited for. That is the offense that Denver ran when Brock was there.... WCO, Of course, they HAD a running game and a great D.
With him at QB and not much of a running game our defense would have to be top five to win any games. We sure as hell aren't going to outduel anyone on offense and with a mediocre running game, our D is going to be on the field a LOT.
I disagree. I believe Kessler was groomed more a WCO in college, did not get much practice time last off season, and was not prepared to run a full scale offense. I do not believe Cody's arm strength is outstanding. I think it is BS a QB must have arm strength to play in Cleveland. Two words...Brian...Sipe! Explain why Kessler in any different?
I get Hue stated Kessler must improved the deep ball. Browns receivers must improve their routs as well. Just like the Kardiac Kid offense in the 80's Browns must become a well rounded offense. I do see many similarities. Just like Sipe, it will take a couple years.
Real question how does Hue feel? In 12 days, I think we find out. I side taking Garrett #1, but if there is a slightest thinking Hue believes in a QB in this draft. They must take one at #1 or trade up to #2.
QB taken this year will require 2 or 3 years to become functional. Are not the Browns already doing something similar in Kessler? My biggest argument against drafting a QB is if it takes 3 years to develop why are we drafting in the first. Other positions in this years draft show a lot of talent. Missing taking one near the top I feel is a mistake. Taking two this year is similar taking a top 10 prospect in back to back years.
I know I am lone wolf here, but I say build around Kessler. Create a championship defense. Stop chasing the perfect QB specimen.
Because the draft date is dragging on and on I starting looking around more.
Garrett should be a lock at number one. Really a no brainer.
Unless the Browns make a move up the Board Trubisky most likely will be gone. There is a chance though that he lands there at 12 and the Browns grab him. At this point he seems to be the guy they favor??
However, if they do not move up and someone does select him then what?
Pick 12 is there and they have Garrett. There are a few players that may be available at 12 that are in my mind game changers. Solomon Thomas, Malik Hooker and OJ Howard. Of course they all could be gone.
If that is the case. I like Mahomes.
I have done a lot of work on this guy. The rap of course is off brand offense, gaudy numbers, pre-determined reads, poor footwork, lack of discipline, at times broken mechanics.
At the same time nobody denies the talent this guy has.
Mahomes has a bunch of people behind him that all have his best interest at heart. His family (ex pro baseball player) agents with money, mentors, coaches, QB guru's etc.
I have looked at a bunch of behind the scenes stuff about Mahomes. He has confidence. He has been around the professional scene. Played with Jeter and A-Rod as a kid. He was a big time pitching prospect. He would have been drafted very high as a baseball prospect. He was still drafted by the Tigers even though they knew he chose football.
He has been taught about what it takes and what it takes to play for a career. His father played many years in the major and minors.
In watching him he is well aware of what he has to work on to improve. He has no problem putting in the work to improve. He worked with Manziel's former qb coach. Who notes that Mahomes is a much better prospect. Bigger, stronger, much better arm.
I have looked at his field tape. His flaws are correctable.
I would strongly consider him at 12 if Trubisky was gone.
Bone, for the first time this year, I believe teams needing a QB will take one early. Unless they get a kings ransom to trade down they take a QB.
It is why I believe Browns go all in choosing Kessler. Let quality drop in their lap. Way I see it. Teams drafting after #10 will laugh at the above taking low grade.
Yeah, good point. I Don't know much about Davis because I haven't seen him play. I'm so skeptical of draftin WR so high because of our past results in rounds 1/2
I'd love Baker to be a Brown. He is a football player. I wanted the honey badger a few years back, he was the same kind of player. These guys just KNOW how to play.
I'd love Baker to be a Brown. He is a football player. I wanted the honey badger a few years back, he was the same kind of player. These guys just KNOW how to play.
And often times this doesn't show up at the combines or pro days. The film tells you everything and I agree with those who say he just knows how to play the game.
I'd like MG at #1 and the BPA at #12 whomever our FO believes it is. We have to draft talent this year. I believe with last years draft and FA we now have some depth. It's time to bring in the talent and we have a golden opportunity with all our picks and this deep draft. This is our chance to finally turn this franchise around.
If we're drafting a SAM at 12, I personally would much rather take Reddick. At least we know he can cover. He started off at corner at Temple and is fast AF.
I don't like the idea of drafting a Sam at pick number 12. This defense already has their linebackers when you consider that Greg Williams played nickel and use a nickel safety if I recall correctly about 70% of their snaps in Los Angeles. To me that seems to spell a Sam in this defense would only see roughly about 30% of the snaps.
And TJ watt reminds me Joe schobert with the walk pedigree but I would have to go back and kind of look at their numbers but from looking at them or film I feel like they're similar players and I still think that Joe schobert has a chance in this league especially if he gets a place I am as opposed to 34 outside linebacker.
Apologies for the weirdness of this post because I'm using voice to text
Did Williams use that personnel because it was his preference or because that was how he tailored his defensive scheme to best fit the players he had to work with?
1) Myles Garrett, I hope they don't overthink it, he will make everyone better on that line. This franchise needs players that the Steelers, Ravens and Bengals HAVE to gameplay around. 12) I still believe that Garapollo is in play, I just can't see Belichick watching him walk next year when he could have had 2 or 3 picks. If Mitch is available, take him, if not OJ Howard, dude is gonna be awesome, same comments as I stated earlier about game planning from our division foes
Did Williams use that personnel because it was his preference or because that was how he tailored his defensive scheme to best fit the players he had to work with?
It's not just Williams, the entire league is in sub packages 70% of the time. Drafting a linebacker early would not be smart.
Except that we will have a good running game. We had one last year, we just didn't run it enough, and now we have upgraded the Oline and we still have a draft where we are bound to select a O-lineman somewhere in the mix.
You see Crow as a 1500 yard 15 touchdown back? I don't see him as the kind of a back that can take over a game. Now, if we were to draft a guy that can punish a defense and get the really tough yards? That would be different. We shall see. With any QB scenario this season we BETTER run the ball more often and we better eat clock. Keep the D off the field as much as possible. Crow has never run for more than 1000 yards and never scored double digit TD's. That needs to change. If he shows me something I'll be happy to admit I'm wrong. Nothing would make me happier. I'm hoping we draft a running back that can challenge Crowell for playing time. This draft is deep in RB talent. That way even if Crowell starts if he gets hurt or just can't do what is needed we have a backup plan!
I have no problem drafting a back. I do see Crow in the 1500 yard rage if given the carries. 1500 yards is about chances. Crow averaged 12 carries a game at 4.8 a carry. Say he got 18 carries a game? You can do the math. There are backs who get 20 carries a game.
Sure, there are better backs, but he is good enough to carry the load.
I think we have Corey and four other guys we drafted last year. One of those guys has to be able to step-up. I mean, one out of four of them just has to be good, eh?
I think we have Corey and four other guys we drafted last year. One of those guys has to be able to step-up. I mean, one out of four of them just has to be good, eh?
They have to prove to me they can draft talent that can produce day one and can ride the upside wave and become better. We're well aware of our history of drafting players that didn't amount to anything. If it was NE drafting, I'd probably say two out of the four will likely step up. But here, as of yet, gotta be skeptical.
This FO is young though, so I'm willing to give them a clear cut chance to prove to me as' well as some time to do so.
I agree Crow can be close to a 1500 yard back especially with an improved O-line and hopefully a better passing game. That will open things up more, something we couldn't do last season.
If we take Garrett at #1 and Truly Truly we are in love with Trubisky how willing would everyone be on trading #52 and #97 to move up to #5 ahead of the Jets, the Chargers and the Bills to make sure we get him because thats what it would cost according to the NFL Draft Value Chart @ www.walterfootball.com ... I would be ok with that
If we take Garrett at #1 and Truly Truly we are in love with Trubisky how willing would everyone be on trading #52 and #97 to move up to #5 ahead of the Jets, the Chargers and the Bills to make sure we get him because thats what it would cost according to the NFL Draft Value Chart @ www.walterfootball.com ... I would be ok with that
The draft value is irrelevant when discussing our current front office.
1. Garrett 1b. Trubisky or Mahomes 2. budda Baker S 2b. WR Ju Ju Smith 3. CB Tez Tabor maybe Sydney Jones 4. RB Joe Mixon No one touches him to the 4th
If we take Garrett at #1 and Truly Truly we are in love with Trubisky how willing would everyone be on trading #52 and #97 to move up to #5 ahead of the Jets, the Chargers and the Bills to make sure we get him because thats what it would cost according to the NFL Draft Value Chart @ www.walterfootball.com ... I would be ok with that
If we take Garrett at #1 and Truly Truly we are in love with Trubisky how willing would everyone be on trading #52 and #97 to move up to #5 ahead of the Jets, the Chargers and the Bills to make sure we get him because thats what it would cost according to the NFL Draft Value Chart @ www.walterfootball.com ... I would be ok with that
The draft value is irrelevant when discussing our current front office.
If we take Garrett at #1 and Truly Truly we are in love with Trubisky how willing would everyone be on trading #52 and #97 to move up to #5 ahead of the Jets, the Chargers and the Bills to make sure we get him because thats what it would cost according to the NFL Draft Value Chart @ www.walterfootball.com ... I would be ok with that
The draft value is irrelevant when discussing our current front office.
Not if we want to trade up with someone ...
I guarantee our front office doesn't use the old draft value chart.
If we take Garrett at #1 and Truly Truly we are in love with Trubisky how willing would everyone be on trading #52 and #97 to move up to #5 ahead of the Jets, the Chargers and the Bills to make sure we get him because thats what it would cost according to the NFL Draft Value Chart @ www.walterfootball.com ... I would be ok with that
In a NY Minute.
I'm one of only a few who projects Trubs as a long term quality QB. And with 13 Starts and 31 Games played, it IS projection. I just happen to Love how this kid looks in the pocket.
He looks like a REAL QB. Not one of these yuppies that reads and takes off which many think the NFL is turning toward. And that's BS. Every good team in this league has a Pocket QB.
All you young guys love these Read Option and Spread Offenses, they're exciting and produce massive numbers but they ain't winning in the NFL consistently. And prolly never will.
Trubisky has 1year of Starting. I'm not crazy about that. Actually I hate it. But he's had a decent year Completion % wise and TD to Pick Ratio. It's a projection as to what he will be like in a couple NFL years.
Look. It sucks we constantly have to deal with the thought of getting a decent QB in here. It kills opportunity like a Garrett/Howard combo. That really blows. But it is what it is.
We have the Ammo to do whatever we want. And if we like Trubisky, then make the damn move and get him if you think other teams are interested in front of us.
We're due some luck. And a Local Boy who grew up a Browns Fan and wants to play here is eerily similar to 1985. And that's the last time this team had Cleveland Rockin'.
You younger guys that weren't around at that time would be wise to search for and watch some games from that era. Specifically the Browns Jets Playoff OT Game and the 86 AFC Championship Game against Denver in Cleveland.
Get Trubisky in here and let Jackson and Crew start getting him ready. If he's the intelligent quick study I believe he is, get him ready for Week 10 after the London game and use the bye week to hand over the reigns.
We're due some luck. And a Local Boy who grew up a Browns Fan and wants to play here is eerily similar to 1985. And that's the last time this team had Cleveland Rockin'.
You younger guys that weren't around at that time would be wise to search for and watch some games from that era. Specifically the Browns Jets Playoff OT Game and the 86 AFC Championship Game against Denver in Cleveland.
Get Trubisky in here and let Jackson and Crew start getting him ready. If he's the intelligent quick study I believe he is, get him ready for Week 10 after the London game and use the bye week to hand over the reigns.
Take the chance on this kid.
You see 1985, I see 2007.
I'd rather take the stud DB (Revis in 07), than the overrated local QB that looks good in shorts (Brady Quinn).
Hopefully Miles Garrett can be our defensive version of Joe Thomas and we take a stud DB (I'd love Hooker, but would settle for Humphrey) instead of reaching for a QB this time around.
I'm seeing and hearing more and more and more projection that Trubisky will be there at #12.
Also this morning news Foster failed a drug test at the Combine. Diluted sample .... If he falls out of the first round I would take him in a heartbeat at 33
I'm seeing and hearing more and more and more projection that Trubisky will be there at #12.
Also this morning news Foster failed a drug test at the Combine. Diluted sample .... If he falls out of the first round I would take him in a heartbeat at 33
So in my perfect world -
#1 - Garret #12 - Trubisky #33 - Foster.
Dude seriously? We don't need druggies here anymore. Seriously?????????????
j/c... 1. I don't think he beats out Kirksey for our MLB spot. 2. This draft is so so strong in CB/DB I don't think we got ILB on our board at all until possibly late rounds (if we don't trade those picks) for Special Teams consideration.
3. The short of it. I don't want "HIM" on our team at all and frankly not looking to add an ILB until maybe Round 5. jmho
Everything about Foster screams football player. Yep - I'd take him at 33.
To me, everything about him screams dummy. Knowing you're going to be required to drug test at the combine and still finding a way to screw it up, yep - I'd pass on him just as I would Mixon, even if he's there in the 7th round.
For me, I'm just completely done with kids with troubled events and etc. Completely.
I don't believe Watson would be our choice at 33 to be honest. Hue wants a big arm, well Watson doesn't give u that. The FO values accuracy well he doesn't give you that either. Ok can he comes in and run your offense immediately? No he runs that Clemson spread gonna take him some time to learn to drop and read at the same time.
Just rumor stuff but have heard best interviews with us was Kizer and Mahomes but this regime does like Trubisky a lot.
It seems to me Garrett @ #1 is a done deal. Every draft has someone fall that should have been a top 10 pick. My hope is that we pick that guy at #12. Who that will be, I haven't a clue. If there's more than 1....?
I don't believe Watson would be our choice at 33 to be honest. Hue wants a big arm, well Watson doesn't give u that. The FO values accuracy well he doesn't give you that either. Ok can he comes in and run your offense immediately? No he runs that Clemson spread gonna take him some time to learn to drop and read at the same time.
You may not want Watson at 12 or 33.(or at all based on your description of him)
The way you describe him above he not only doesn't seem like a fit for Hue/Browns...he doesn't seem like a QB fit for any team...much less as being one of the top QBs in the draft class.
But, I feel compelled to address a few things which you state as fact. Now, everyone is entitled to their opinions but not to state them as fact.
Quote:
Hue wants a big arm, well Watson doesn't give u that.
Where did Hue say he wants a big arm? What are you referring to with this statement?
Granted it is well known that Hue's passing offense wants to push the ball vertically downfield by watching the games. And we know that last year Hue challenging Kessler to push the ball down field in a couple media clips/articles. Is that what you mean by big arm?
If so I bet you would be surprised to find out that Watson was 3rd in Deep ball accuracy.
Or are you referring to the false media perception that Watson has a weak arm based on the unofficial/unverified ball velocity numbers from the combine which had him as 49 mph?
ESPN Sports Science show clears this silly notion up quite nicely because they actually measure max ball velocity based on the QBs actual film. And Watson's ball velocity was 53.5 mph.
Originally Posted By: Mourgrym
....accuracy well he[Watson] doesn't give you[accuracy]that either
Oh by the way...Watson is also 3rd in Adjusted Completion Percentage which once again goes against your statement.
Originally Posted By: Mourgrym
Ok can he comes in and run your offense immediately? No he runs that Clemson spread gonna take him some time to learn to drop and read at the same time.
^^Sprint Right Option west coast offense staple
Originally Posted By: Jon Gruden on DeShaun Watson
It starts with a new snap count and learning a new language and that's really the only barrier you're gonna have going to the NFL
How much do you know about the respective offensive systems the QBs in this draft class run? Clemson vs UNC vs Texas Tech vs CAL....which do you think has more pro-style concepts? After you do your research I would be curious to hear your results.
If you watch Clemson film you can certainly see Watson drop back and go through his reads, he even makes some full field reads. I'm sure you won't but the thread below has some gifs of Watson doing exactly what you suggest he can't:
Just rumor stuff but have heard best interviews with us was Kizer and Mahomes but this regime does like Trubisky a lot.
What do rumors from a regime that has been remarkably tight lipped mean?
I am not saying Watson is without flaws he has plenty:
-slow starter -can be reckless with the ball and force 50/50 balls -get more passes batted at the LOS then you want to see -some injury history -'quiet'
I'm not saying they should or shouldn't take Watson in this draft. I am saying that you're characterization of him doesn't match the data out there.
Mine is Garrett at 1 and Christian McCaffrey at 12.
I think Garrett is the best D player in the draft and McCaffrey is the best offensive play maker in the top 30. JMHO
What about Solomon Thomas at 1, and McCaffrey at 12, I could get behind that, IF they hadn't created a hole at quarterback by departing RG3 and 1-10 McCown.
I guess they really forced themselves into a Qb at 1, by parting RG3 and the 1-10 McCown and leaving no more experience than Kessler.
I had Foster going to the Bungles in the first before this popped up .
They have Adam Jones, a drug test failure won't impact their decisions... unless they feel he's going to drop of course which he likely definitely is.
I think Foster might be around for our second rounder. Failed drug test, scuffle at the combine, medical red flag, party scene guy, ... ...
If he was available in the second round I might just pick him. We don't need anyone at that position, but his talent is undeniable.
Help us Obi-Wan...Garrett #1, Hooker or Adams #12, Foster falls in our lap at #33. Add the cherry on top taking Sydney Jones #52. For sprinkles, draft Mixon at top of the third...I couldn't think of another first round!
Good luck in life but your personality on here comes off as someone that believes they are superior to everyone and personally I think u r just full of yourself. So please don't bother even reading my silly point of view since u already know everything. Btw hue himself has stated he prefers the big armbut let's not let facts get in the way if your ego.
12 & 33 are the most intriguing of our picks. So many options. If we don't use it for JG (looking increasingly like that wont happen) I would say:
OJ Howard would be my choice at 12. Give Kess/Brock another weapon on offense and it is a safe pick that will be an immediate starter and should make an impact.
33....I am intrigued by Mahomes but, think he will go in 1st round. So, we either trade up and get him or we use for a safety like Obi or Budda (if one is there) and then take Webb or Dobbs later.
#1 Garrett - he's just to good to pass up and other than QB pass-rush is our biggest need.
#12 I'd like to see either Adams or Hooker fall here but I doubt that would happen, my next choice would be Howard if there, if he's gone then either Conley, Cook, or Williams.
#33 I would like one of the top CBs like Conley or White to fall here if not then I'd go with Baker here.
Good luck in life but your personality on here comes off as someone that believes they are superior to everyone and personally I think u r just full of yourself. So please don't bother even reading my silly point of view since u already know everything.
Lol, thank you! I appreciate you wishing me luck in life however disingenuous.
This is an internet fan message board.
There will be discussion and there will be disagreement. I thought some of your opinions which you stated as fact were incorrect. And I provided the information which related directly to the areas being discussed.
I am not gonna make any personal comments towards you. My post was about football. My opinions about you on a personal level I regard as out of bounds. You are entitled to feel anyway you want about what I post. I would prefer a response about the football though. I like football. I'm a football nerd. When I respond, time permitting, I want my post to be as accurate and informative as possible. How you take that is up to you. My post was all football nothing personal. I would still be interested in your football response to my post.
Quote:
Btw hue himself has stated he prefers the big armbut let's not let facts get in the way if your ego.
Hey man I asked you for clarification on what you meant by 'big arm'. And if its a fact then just link/quote it. Not a big deal.
Here's what I recall and he doesn't say 'big arm'.
Originally Posted By: Hue Jackson
“It’s a lot of things you’re looking for in a quarterback, but I think, most importantly, obviously guys have arm talent and can a guy process football at the rate that you need him to be able to do it,” Jackson said.
Clearly, Watson has arm talent. He doesn't have the arm strength of Mahomes or Kizer. But he certainly has an NFL arm and can make all the throws. On top of that he's one of the best deep ball passers. He can vary ball speeds, he a clean and consistent throwing motion (def moreso then Kizer/Mahomes).
(1) Garrett (12) not sure who will be there so I will rank: --(1) Adams (S) --(2) Hooker (S) --(3) Trubisky (QB) --(4) J. Allen (DT) --(5) OJ Howard (TE) --(6) Williams/Davis (WR)
With this QB class I have sort of decided there is probably not a huge separation between the guy likely to go first and a guy like Mahomes who might go 3rd or 4th. All have something that prevents them from being a consensus guy to make it at the next level. If they sort their mechanics and minor flaws out at the next level Trubisky, Mahomes Kizer all have very high ceilings. Watson has plAyed great on the biggest stages.... But unless you truly covet one ... Why select one so early?
Adams is the guy I guess I covet most ... Slim to none chance and I think slim left town.
Garrett Allen would make the DL elite. imo
Howard does everything very well. He'd be a great pick up too.
Bottom line I really think if we sit tight great players will call to us.
(12) not sure who will be there so I will rank: --(1) Adams (S) --(2) Hooker (S) --(5) OJ Howard (TE)
In no specific order, I'd take either of those two safeties if available there at #12, or if not -I'd happily take OJ. This is my hope scenario, either way, we should be able to get a talented player to help our team there at #12 after having took Garrett #1 of course.
For the life of me I cannot understand the fascination with Myles Garrett - injury prone, underachiever. Just compare the SEC stats of Derek Barnett with Myles Garrett. I think the media has created a group think around Garrett without really looking at his negatives and risks. If I had to pick either Barnett or Garrett, I would go with Barnett. Barnett had 13 sacks last year, Garrett had 8.5 and 4 came against small schools. The prior year, the one that is supposed to be a better representation for Garrett, he had 11.5 sacks and Barnett had 10. To me Garrett = Courtney Brown and Barnett = D Freeney.
That said, I don't think anyone can deny the importance of the QB position in the NFL. Over 50% of Super Bowl winning teams drafted their QB in the first round. The entire team plays better when a team has a franchise QB. Without one, defenses get worn down, offenses don't get into a rythm, and players give up hope and lose mental toughness. The Browns absolutely must try to find a franchise QB ASAP. There is no waiting on this. They already passed on Carr, Wentz and Prescott. If the one you pick now doesn't work out, you have the ammo to go after another next year, but if you don't take one this year, you are accepting being a loser for at least another year or two.
My picks:
1. Mitch Trubisky, QB, UNC - Best red zone rating of any college QB 17TDs to 0 Ints. 12. Derek Barnett, Edge, Tenn - He will be better than Myles Garrett (if gone, Mike Williams) 33. Quincy Wilson, CB, FL - Need a Joe Haden replacement (if gone, TreDavious White) 52. M Humphrey, CB, OSU - Need 2 corners. (if gone, Fabian Moreau) 66. Duke Riley, ILB, LSU
You get Trubiski, the best QB in the draft who is a potential franchise QB, imo the best edge rusher in the draft in Barnett, 2 potential starting CB's with Q Wilson and M Humprhrey, and a sideline to sideline MLB in Duke Riley. You also keep all your other picks this year and next year - no trading away valuable picks. To me, this is how you build a team, not by going gaga eyes over an underachieving, injury plagued DE.
I would say much higher. My bust rate is 60/40 on Garrett and 40/60 on Trubiski. My evaluation of the traits of college QB's that succeed in the NFL are:
Accuracy - Trubiski has excellent accuracy. D Watson lacks that accuracy and will only be a mediocre NFL QB for that reason.
Quick release- Dan Marino showed how important a quick release is in the NFL. Ask Tom Brady and A Rogers how important it is.
Strong arm - you have to be able to make the deep throw or NFL defenses will cheat up. He has the arm and can make all the NFL throws. Something Kessler can't do. Weeden had the arm, but lacked the accuracy and intelligence.
Intelligence - One big indicator to me of QB intelligence is interception rate. Trubiski throws very few int's (30 TD, 6 Int) because he is able to see the field, make good decisions, and protects the ball. If you watch his 6 interceptions, most were not his fault or just a damn good defensive play. An incredibly important trait in the NFL. Also red zone interceptions are another key indicator - 17TDs to 0 ints in red zone.
Character - he is squeaky clean. You won't see Trubiski riding an inflatable swan.
My question is, why wouldn't he excel in the NFL? The only comeback is he only started 13 games - so what? By the way, he did play in 6 games as a sophomore and had 6 TDs' 0 int's. In the games he did start, he showed he has the traits you look for in a franchise QB.
The biggest reason I think Garret would bust is an inability to stay healthy. He couldn't do it in college so why do we think he will in the NFL where it is even more physical. Also, he is underachieving even when healthy. He makes a big play that looks awesome on video like one time every 4 games. Or 4 times in a game against a Division II school. But, he is invisible on many plays, especially against better competition. That scares me.
Just an aside, on Facebook I am a member of a group 'Cleveland Browns 4 Life.' There are quite a few fans there who are ugly angry about the prospect of Garrett going #1. The obsession for a QB goes well beyond MKC.
Just an aside, on Facebook I am a member of a group 'Cleveland Browns 4 Life.' There are quite a few fans there who are ugly angry about the prospect of Garrett going #1. The obsession for a QB goes well beyond MKC.
Which I don't get. You still have to be prudent about it. If the QB isn't worth the pick (aka Weeden and Johnny) then pick the BPA (especially when that guy is a difference making pass rusher). If you reach for players, especially QBs, it's what mires your franchise in awfulness.
I gotta say, despite the common opinion here, I think if Trubisky is there at 12, he's a Brown. Unless there is clearly superior prospect there (Adams/Hooker), I think the pressure to get a QB will overpower other considerations.
Cleveland Browns Draft: Garrett At 1, But What About 12?
By stephenthomas Updated: April 17, 2017
By Stephen Thomas (@15Stephen15)
Browns Fan, Comedian & Stage 4 Mockaholic
So we’re finally barreling down the home stretch to the 2017 NFL Draft. (Let’s all take a moment to collectively thank whatever deity, higher power, or Kardashian we personally worship that it’s almost over)(Thank you, that was a nice moment) As is our annual pre-draft tradition, the breadth of Browns Fandom is using this final few days to turn on each other, spit insults at anyone with different player grades, and demand that strangers publishing a Mock Draft considered “trash” have repeated carnal relations with numerous blood relatives.
Aaah, spring.
Conventional wisdom says that Myles Garrett at 1 is all over but the shouting, however “what to do at 12” is a hot topic lately in Clevelandville. There are three options with the pick, all of which hinge on how the Browns grade this Quarterback class. Since that grade is a critical piece of the information puzzle possessed by literally none of us outside the Fortress In Berea, I find great humor in how absolutely certain everyone is about what will transpire at 12. Go ahead, go to BrownsTwitter and tell someone they’re wrong about 12. As Fenster would say, they’ll flip ya. Flip ya for real. I readily admit I have no idea what they’re going to do at 12, though I remain convinced it will somehow be utilized to acquire their quarterback.
I’m going to go over the three options with the pick in the order of likelihood I believe they may occur.
Option 1: Stay put. Duh. We have no idea how the Browns have these Quarterbacks graded, but if whomever is their #1 is still on the board here, this is the simplest, least stressful and gloriously boring route. Every single one of us should be wishing upon multiple stars and several character actors that this is what happens. Honestly, after decades of wild Browns drafts, wouldn’t it be sooooooo nice to have a First Round of “Hey, we got our two guys at our two spots, and now we’re going to grab a Guinness, watch a couple Cheers reruns, scratch ourselves without fear of reprisal and go to sleep?” I know I’d be a gleeful idiot, even more than normal.
Option 2: Trade up for a QB. This is the option that has been discussed ad nauseam lately in BrownsTwitter, and some of the trade proposals out there are beyond insanity. For example, RJ White at CBS Sports has the Browns giving San Francisco picks 12, 33 and 108 in this draft, plus two of their 2018 2nd round picks, to move up to the #2 slot and take Mitch Trubisky. Using the Harvard Trade Chart, this trade grades as -1,131.5 for the Browns; which is the equivalent of giving up their next two 1st round picks and a 2nd round pick. (If that doesn’t qualify as batsh*t crazy, then that eloquent term has lost all meaning, and should be relegated to only being used when describing any member of Congress) This is only one example of many wild trade scenarios that have been floated lately where the NFL franchise in Cleveland gets bent over like a Ron Jeremy scene partner. Willingly. Apparently, certain members of the national media believe that this Browns Front Office is being run by a group of particularly slow-witted chipmunks, or at best by men who need to be naked to count to 21. It’s mystifying. (Not as mystifying as people who continue to mock RB to the Browns at 12, or anyone who eats the sin against everything holy that is Turkey Bacon, but mystifying nonetheless)
Not everyone out there proposing swaps is a lunatic, though, and there have been some reasonable trade-up ideas pontificated. The most popular trade partner I’ve seen has been the Titans in the #5 slot, partially due to the belief that the Jets are primed to take a quarterback at 6. I disagree with this trade spot, for several reasons. First, the Titans are a team that believes they are on the verge of contending, and I don’t think they’ll pass on the opportunity to add a Top 5 player to their roster, especially since many of the names that will conceivably still be on the board at 5 fit their current needs, and theoretically could immediately help them take that next step. Also, Tennessee has two first round picks, and the luxury of having pick 18 on their plate makes it easier for them to hold the Browns hostage even more than normal in any trade discussion. The Titans have very little motivation to make a deal, which means potentially asking the Browns to give up future 1st round picks, and I don’t see Sashi’s Marauders making that move. Finally, the guys I know in JetsWorld insist to a man that New York is not taking a QB. Could they be wrong? Yes. Could I be wrong? Wouldn’t be neeeeeeeearly the first time, but it’s what I believe. Put it all together, add in the Jets motivation to make a move, and I actually think that if – IF – the Browns are inclined to move up, swapping with the Jets at 6 is the most likely landing spot.
Why would the Jets move down? Well….. to be super nice about it, their roster isn’t exactly loaded with talent. If the Patriots 53 is George Clooney, the Jets 53 is … well, me. Some have said the Jets are in the position the Browns were last year: Year One of a total tear down/rebuild. In that position, collecting draft assets is a necessary step, so a trade down makes sense. Also, as it pertains to the match with the Browns, the Jets have Sheldon Richardson in a contract year. Yes, he has off field issues. Yes, his production dropped in 2016 (though most in New York say that was due to him being misused and forced to play out of position quite a bit). However, the Browns need for a 3T is very real, and I’ve been advocating using pick 65 to fill it anyway, so adding 65 to a trade that returns an established 3T is a fit. The point is, the Jets have multiple angles of motivation to make a deal that the Titans simply do not. Usually, the team moving up in a trade pays a premium, but the Jets real need to accumulate picks for their rebuild, accompanied by their desire to get something for Richardson before he walks in Free Agency, mitigates that to some degree. When both teams are motivated, deals get more evenly equitable. Thinking 2-3 steps into the future, if the Browns acquire Richardson as part of a deal and he leaves in Free Agency after the season (for whatever reason), Cleveland would be in line for a pretty high compensatory pick in 2019, so that implied value must be added to the trade equity as well. Again using the Harvard Trade Chart, the Browns giving 12, 65, and 185 in this year’s draft for 6 and Sheldon Richardson comes out just about dead even, so that’s a good starting point. Stealing a line from Captain Barbossa, the trade charts are “More guidelines than actual rules.” What I mean is that this is not what the final deal will look like, but it’s the foundation of any negotiations. Forced to guess, if the Browns are hot enough on a QB to move up, I’d say any deal with the Jets could include one of the Browns 2018 2nd round picks as well. If so, it would put the final chart score of the trade somewhere in the -150 range for Cleveland. -150 to get what you consider your QB of the future is far more palatable than the previously mentioned -1,131.5. It’s actually quite reasonable.
There are other trade up spots, like Carolina at 8 or Buffalo at 10, but I humbly submit that the Jets at 6 is most likely. (Go ahead, commence calling me stupid)
Option 3: Trade down. Obviously, we don’t know what the Browns board looks like, but based on the non-QB names usually available at this spot in most of the national mocks I’ve seen, if Cleveland isn’t going to go QB at 12, a trade down makes the most sense, and there could be several willing partners in the 14-21 range. There are too many variables to get into here, and I simply don’t know the Front Offices of the other teams in those slots well enough to say whether there would be a player they might covet at 12, but assuming the QB Cleveland wants is gone and they are indeed looking at a trade down, I’d think the Browns would be hoping that Christian McCaffrey and Corey Davis are still on the board at 12. You could make a case that any of the teams between 14 and 21 would be willing to move up for one of those two players.
Looking at it from the Browns perspective, the most enticing trade partners in that range would be Tennessee or Denver, since both of those teams have their own 3rd round picks as well as compensatory 3rds, and therefore might be more willing to give one up in any potential trade. There has been a ton of noise that the Titans want to get a combination of CB and WR with their picks at 5 and 18; if they end up taking Lattimore at 5 as has been speculated, moving from 18 up to 12 for Corey Davis would be a logical move. Referring back to the Harvard Trade Chart, the Browns giving 12 and 175 to Tennessee for 18 and 83 is +23.9 for Cleveland, so it’s at least a reasonable starting point. (Keep in mind, I’m not necessarily advocating for this trade or saying I’ve heard anything about it happening. I’m simply attempting to illustrate that there are deals to be made with the teams in that range of picks.) Again, the trade down option only applies if the Browns either don’t want a QB or “their guy” is gone, but if it happens, adding another Top 100 pick in this draft class is a huge opportunity.
(*Note: The only non-QB I’d advocate taking at 12 is Solomon Thomas. In the unimaginable scenario that Thomas falls to 12, I’d grab him and then try to trade back up from 33 to get a QB … which is whole different set of problems I won’t get into today.)
All of this being said, I still think the Browns end up staying at 12 and taking a QB. I know it’s not exciting, but I’ve had enough Manziel-Weeden-Gilbert-Mingo-Homeless Guy-Leaked White Board 1st round excitement to last me several lifetimes. If my beloved Cleveland Browns come out of the first round with a nice boring combo of Myles Garrett at 1 and their QB at 12, I’ll dance a happy boring dance.
Follow me on Twitter @15Stephen15, and follow along the entire draft process at the hashtag #BrownsDailyMockDraftExperiment.
Stephen Thomas is a professional comedian, and has been a season ticket holder in The Dawg Pound since 1991. He still hates John Elway, Jeremiah Castille and Mike Davis, will swear to his grave that Rich Karlis’ kick was wide left, and would root for a team of Satan’s Minions if they played against the Steelers.
If we stay at 1 and 12 I'd say Garrett and hooker/howard. My top move would still be to trade down from 1 to 5 or 6.
I'd say that analytics probably support this move, but I just don't feel comfortable with it...
I have Garrett as my top prospect but there isn't as large a gap to me as many make it out to be. I'd be much happier with some combo of adams, hooker, Howard, barnett, McDowell as well as 2 more impact picks this or next year than i would just taking Garrett and fill in the blank. While Garrett is a great prospect I'll always take 4 high value(1st and 2nd round) picks over 2 unless it's a qb worthy of 1 which we all know there isn't.
I wouldn't mind trading back to 5/6 ... but is Tennessee/NY going to offer what it will take? Garrett should require a big haul
Would you take the same deal we got for wentz for Garrett? I'd take less. It's a much stronger top10 and he isn't a qb. My dream trades would be Tenn 5, 18 and 2018 1st for 1, 52 and our own 2018 2nd/ NYJ 6 and 2018 1st for 1.
I wouldn't mind trading back to 5/6 ... but is Tennessee/NY going to offer what it will take? Garrett should require a big haul
Would you take the same deal we got for wentz for Garrett? I'd take less. It's a much stronger top10 and he isn't a qb. My dream trades would be Tenn 5, 18 and 2018 1st for 1, 52 and our own 2018 2nd/ NYJ 6 and 2018 1st for 1.
I hate getting into giving up some of our own picks. Just give me 5, 18, plus something. Not saying I would do it, but I'd be inclined
I tried to make a top 12 of guys I'd want. I didn't quite get there so I hope one of these guys fall.
1. Myles Garrett
2-10 (not in order) Jamal Adams - S Malik Hooker - S Jonathan Allen - DT Solomon Thomas - DE Derek Barnett - DE OJ Howard - TE Mike Williams - WR Marshonn Latimore - CB Leonard Fournette - RB
If all of these guys are gone Christian McCafrey Trade Down
*Gareon Conley would be on my list but now with this potential criminal stuff I wouldn't take him until the 3rd of 4th round.
Pick MG and figure a way to get Adams or Hooker. Defense improved to point that it actually gets off the field more often and gives the ball back to the offense. Even a marginal offense is improved if it is given more chances and series cause more chances and more series means opposing defenses are on field more and tired. That's what beats us. Tired defenses late in the game.
So pick your poison. A defense that can get off the field or an offense that can stay on the field. We are closer the tge former tgen the later.
Garrett #1 (if anyone else is selected Sashi Brown probably should get a ticket out of town). Prefer not to trade up for anyone. At #12, I would take Adams or Hooker if they fell. If they do not, I would take BPA, regardless of position.
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^^Sprint Right Option west coast offense staple