Florida Rep. Proposes Bill That Would Protect Confederate Monuments

http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/12/29/fl...erate-monuments

A Florida Republican state representative is proposing a bill that would prohibit the removal of Confederate monuments on public property.

Rep. Mike Hill explained Saturday on "Fox & Friends" that his bill goes beyond protecting just confederate monuments within the state.

According to the Miami New Times, Hill is the first African-American representative in Florida elected from the Panhandle since the Civil War.

He said on that his Soldiers' and Heroes' Monuments and Memorials Protection Act would protect monuments honoring heroes who fought in U.S. battles.

"It also protects first responders and astronauts," Hill said. "So it goes beyond just confederate monuments."

Hill said the "small" reaction from the African-American community to his bill has not been positive.

However, he added that residents he's spoken to in Pensacola -- the area he represents -- are in support of it.

"This is simply a small battle in the entire war for the soul of this nation," said Hill, adding that the left wants to "divide and destroy" the country.

To those who could argue he wants to protect monuments honoring slave owners, Hill said that was "nonsense."

He said it was "faked, feigned outrage" that people want to tear down such monuments because they are offensive.

"I don't think so. I don't buy it," he said.

I wonder why the guy who constantly posts anti-Semitic cartoons and links to a website with a “Black Crime” section would be interested in a bill protecting Confederate monuments?

I don't.

I think it's best to leave history out in the open so you're forced to deal with it and learn from it rather than trying to hide it and deny it.

If the statue is hated then let it be hated and let people remember WHY you should hate it. The same if they love it or are just neutral.

If your offended then good be offended. Let that statue remind you that if you don't stand up for what is right and teach your kids to learn from the mistakes of the past that they are doomed to repeat it.

“Denying it”? Lol, that’s rich. Take your symbols of racism and that history of deplorable behavior and go away. It’s not wanted in public streets and parks in the USA. Crap belongs in a museum somewhere, not on our streets for racists to rally around.

Yes, who can forget last year in Virginia when a bunch of neo-Nazis got together with Home Depot tiki torches to rally around a Confederate statue and chant “we must teach our kids to learn from the mistakes of the past!”

EDIT: Looks like I got that wrong. They were, in fact, chanting “Blood and soil!”, “The South will rise again!” and “You will not replace us!” Apologies for the error.

Your misunderstanding me. Let me make it clearer. I am not racist. I am not a white supremacists. I have a world culture experience where I value many cultures and people from all around the world. Most Americans are too dumb or to ignorant to even comprehend the vast differences in cultures from one country to the next and quite frankly most Americans are self absorbed and snobby to even care.

I place a very strong value on cultural history not because I am a history buff, which I am not, but because I have studied the histories of many cultures throughout the ages just for fun and my own enjoyment. When you study things like this enough there are certain human behavior patterns that emerge in various stages of developing culture.

One of the key signs of a culture falling into decadence and ruin is when they hide the truths of their mistakes as a people. Monuments don't mean the same thing from one generation to the next. Grandchildren seldom understand the pain from their grandparents.

When grandpa was young the monument meant his generation accomplished something great. His son grows up and respects it but eh its just that stuff from Dad's stories. Grandson grows up knowing it was built by slaves and is horrified what they did in the old days. Great grandson grows up listening to grandson rail about those bad things they did so his generation removes the monument. Great great grandson never sees the monument and could care less because it's just ancient history and a boring old story. Great, great, great grandson isn't even sure slavery is that bad anymore because all the cultural icons that show it's bad are all gone. The history is gone and now they are just old stories that no one cares about. Great, great, great, great grandson thinks it's OK to make this person who owes him money work it off until the debt is cleared. Slavery returns and no one alive even really remembers why it's all that bad except in some old stories.

You have to keep those monuments that shame the country on display as much as you do the ones you are proud of. They serve as constant reminders along with a physical evidence that such bad things happened. Your country has to remember it's sins or it's doomed to repeat them. When you start whitewashing everything you don't want to deal with then the history fades away and the new generations will forget and stop caring.

So get angry. Get offended. Then point at it and tell your kids WHY that monument brings the country shame. Let them learn and remember so they don't make the same mistakes.

And you got angry because they did it in the open instead of doing it secretly where you can pretend it's not happening. By them doing it in the open now you know to be on guard. You know it's not over and to be vigilant. Problems don't go away just because you don't want to look at them or deal with them.

Keep the nastiness in the open so you can be vigilant and aware instead of comfortable and ignorant.

I agree. However, that's even more of a reason to tear down these statues. Also how many of these people who defend these statues tell black people they need to get over slavery? lol

funny cause Razor has said that multiple times.

Those people won't change when you take the statues down. The only thing that happens is that people stop arguing and forget until history repeats itself. It ALWAYS happens that way. The best way to stop that is to force it into the open so people have to deal with it.

It's better for people to be offended than to forget why they were offended to begin with.

all the cons on the forum say that if they make three posts about black people

its so hilarious bro.

the same people who whine about participation trophies are the ones in favor of confederate monuments.

Razor is cool with participation trophies as long as its honoring white people who fought to keep blacks in chains.

No it doesn't, it normalizes and pontificates slavery and segregation. we need to move past that and recognize the real heroes during those times. You're getting banning it outright, like what Europe has done, confused with not sanctioning it.

Art work is protected. Are monuments not forms of art? .

Yes.
That's why we have art museums (which are still public places).

Move them inside. It will open up town square for some other display that doesn't send supremacist messages to subjugated citizens... AND it will protect ol' Stonewall from having pigeons use his head for a latrine.

win/win.

I don't like coming in here, but I just wanted to say one thing.

Most of our fathers, and founders, had feet of clay. They had faults, sometimes damning faults. We don't celebrate their faults. We celebrate their good points.

Also, it never hurts to remember the evil they did along the way. If we hide away every instance of them in polite society, and ignore their failings, well...... History is replete with mistakes being forgotten ..... And repeated.

Let's not forget, and please, let's not repeat.

j/c:

Some folks think the Civil War was strictly about emancipating the slaves. Others think it was a political battle that had more to do w/things like state rights and agriculture versus factories. Others know that there were other factors at play.

I think it was a complex issue and marginalizing is short-sighted.

I completely support equal rights and try to fight racism every chance I can. However, I can't say that I am offended by statues of men who fought for the Confederate states, because I don't believe they were really fighting for slavery.

However, I am realistic enough to know that the truth won't be the real focus and political correctness will win out and that anyone who questions the tearing down of the statues is automatically a white racist.

I agree.

I can't let this slide.

Please research the history behind the erection of these monuments- the times in history, and the message they were intended to send. There was a specific reason they were erected in town squares and public spaces. The location of these monuments is just as pernicious as the message they were intended to convey.

Placing them in a public museum with accompanying historical context isn't 'hiding them away.' It's giving them an appropriate public venue for those who wish to seek them out.

j/c:

I doubt anyone will take the time to read/watch these because minds are already cemented in stone, but.......


https://www.intellectualtakeout.org/blog/5-causes-civil-war-besides-slavery

http://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetectives/feature/causes-of-the-civil-war/

https://www.battlefields.org/learn/articles/reasons-secession

I do know quite a bit about this particular subject and I can even tell you about slavery in the North "after" the Civil War. There were things like Soldiers Notes that white people fought tooth and nail to not honor.

This topic is much more complex than some will want to admit.

And it also fades them from the public's conscience. The evil things men did can be part of a memorial, as much as the good. As Vers stated, there were other reasons behind the Civil War then slavery. (though slavery was one of the biggest) The world was a different place in those days, in many ways. Many men fought, not simply for the Confederacy, but for their state. It wasn't like today.

That said, how many young people do you know, or know of, who have gone to a museum as a teenager, or young adult. I know, and have known a lot, and I can't think of any who have ever mentioned doing such a thing. Kids today get their history largely off the internet. (for good, or not)

Also, museums are trending down in attendance overall. Most people don't care about history, unless it's made some sort of cause, and then they just follow one of 2 sides, instead of actually researching, independently, the events, people, and causes. Kids protest a monument, maybe tear it down, and most learn nothing. Monuments should be there as much to spark our interest in the events of the time, as in the men themselves. It has certainly worked, at least superficially, in many cases lately, with people demanding that monuments be destroyed, or removed. However, once they are gone, people forget.

Heck, many people can't tell you why Germany was divided, what countries were in the Soviet Bloc, or even what that was .... or even the reasons beyond slavery that led to the Civil War. We need reminders. Not tucked away neatly, where most people miss them .... but blatantly out in the open, where people can see them, and maybe decide to investigate the history of those depicted. I am not at all opposed to a plaque on these monuments explaining why their actions are considered to be wrong today. people need to know these things. Just making them disappear from the public conscience, though, defeats that outcome.

Also, attendance at historical museums is down across the board. People aren't going to them. Many don't care. Yes, monuments removed from the public eye might as well be ground up to make roads because for most, they'll see them more as a road, then as an historical reminder. That's sad, but absolutely true.

j/c

Am I the only one who didn't miss the part where the bill is being introduced by a black dude? If M. Night Shamalan was in to political thrillers, that seems to be the perfect end of movie twist!

Your history can be preserved, in a small dose for our tasteful preference, make no mistake

The majority of what you have stood for, will fall on the wrong side of history. History is important, it’s what makes humans, a little more sophisticated.

It’s why I grill you guys on planet earth and biodiversity, you can’t buy this one back.

Let me help you, along with many others, who didn’t even bother to research...

https://theweek.com/speedreads/718507/st...vil-rights-eras

Look at the graphic. Many statues got erected during key battles for African American civil rights.

Now keep pontificating about the younger generation and their rock music if you wish.

The facts show these statues, as well as history itself, show the war only was about slavery. The “states rifhts” argument falls flat. Slavery was the only right they fought for.

Slavery was a key issue, as was control over the federal government. Expansion was another issue, as many rich southerners wanted to expand, and yes, with slavery, into the western territories. Farming was the industry of the south, while commerce and industry was the norm in the north. It was a different time, and states didn't want to be dictated to by the federal government, which happened on a variety of issues, but yes, slavery was the main one.

I am not "pontificating". What I am doing is saying that these events and people must not be forgotten ..... and they will be if we eradicate then from "polite" public consciousness. Keep the statues, and post an explanation of what each man did, for good, and for evil.

When this country was founded, the only people who could vote were often wealthy, they had to be landowners, and they had to be white men. That was it. many of our founders had slaves. Off the top of my head, these include George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, (though he later freed his) and James Madison. We respect the accomplishments of these men, and have monuments to them, even though they committed this evil act, and discriminated so blatantly.

Monuments don't denote a perfect person. Often those commemorated had heavy duty feet of clay. When they do denote evil, that evil should be challenged .... but with destruction, but by marginalizing the evil person. Tear down the statues, and the person, and events, are forgotten.

I bet that there are high school children today who couldn't tell you what the deadliest war the US ever participated in, couldn't tell you which side in the Civil War held slaves. Many can't explain why the Revolutionary War took place, or any of the key events leading to the victory by the fledgling America. People and events need to be challenged, but man, when they are simply eradicated, the lessons we learned are also forgotten.

I would argue that even when statues were erected later, (as always happens with statues and monuments) they still have a lesson to teach. George Washington is considered a great President, and the key to out victory in the Revolution. He was offered a "kingship", but declined, instead offered a Presidency role. He left office in 1797. The Washington monument was built in 1848. Jefferson was our 3rd President. His memorial wasn't built until 1948. Many times monuments (and statues) weren't built until the person passed away.

Was there a racial influence in the Civil War monuments? Almost certainly. Does that mean they don't have a lesson to teach? Absolutely not.

Believe it or not, I'd actually support this.

I think taking down Monuments, banning books, teaching alternative history (revisionist) is all part of a cleansing that doesn't need to take place.,

It's our history, the Good, Bad and Ugly history that is Americas alone.

It's like idiots that insist that Hitler didn't have 6 million Jews killed... It happened, hiding it is a sure way to see it happen again.

I'm all about open history..,, True history..

So, put the monuments back, fly your Confederate flag if you want (just below Old Glory please)

They should be moved into museums. Fighting to leave them in the open, especially as a northerner makes no sense.

Hiding them makes no sense to me....

I think if you're moving them inside you're more protecting them than hiding them at this point.

Hmm, that's actually a good point..

According to the logic by some posts I've been reading on this thread we need to start erecting statues of Hitler, Rommel and Mussolini in America's public squares.

I mean we don't want people forgetting about the history of WW2, right?

You rate Confederate's with Hitler, Mussolini. Rommel was just a general that fought against us for his own country. GMAB Pit, you're getting as bad as PDF.

Clearly people are not learning the real history of the Confederates via statues

Come on, bro. That isn't what I was saying at all.

Sheesh.........I support minorities all the time. I guess I just don't see the big deal of smashing statues and I despise censorship.

I guess that makes me anti-American and a racist.

Allow me to say this.........

I really don't have a problem if they get rid of the statues if people are really that upset about such things. I mean......I wouldn't miss them. I don't look at them. I never supported or even sympathized w/the south.

My issue was more of a censorship thing and it seems we have become a nation where people can't say squat or like squat w/out being reprimanded for it.

For example.......LeBron posts some rap lyrics in a tweet about Jewish money and people freak out. LeBron wasn't bad-mouthing Jews. But, he had to apologize.

People are so damn sensitive these days and we censor everything. It is the opposite of the 60s, where freedom of thought and expression was being championed.

This era is so freaking uptight. Many of these peeps must squeak when they walk.

It's not censoring. It's refusing to honors bigots, racists, and overall bad human being who promoted white supremacy.

Don't buy the "it was about slavery angle? Let me provide some primary sources which support my argument.

From Georgia's draft of succession



Do you see anything that says "this isn't about slavery" in there?

Let's look at Mississipi's formal succession article


I wonder how South Carolina felt?


Yup, only complaining about the right to keep slaves as a state.

Texas probably was a maverick, right?


Nope. Same silliness as South Carolina.

Links to facts which support it was about slavery.

But wait, you say those are just a few states...not even the whole confederacy could form a whole opinion, right? They all spoke for themselves!

For certain the Vice President of the Confederacy would say "hey, we all have our own reasons." That would be what the country of States' Rights would say!

Let's take a look...


Oops....

Source

------------------------------



It's like Chief Wahoo. Maybe he didn't realize exactly what the lyric truly was about, but he should still apologize.



I think you mean people are trying better to be more inclusive, and try to avoid putting down an oppressed group.

It upsets people of privledge when they get told they can't say a certain thing, and this is because the person then has to recognize their privledge. Recognizing their privledge makes them upset about their worldview that racism is never going to exist and that things are still terribly broken.

(Disclaimer: No, I'm not saying you're upset or one of these types.)



Quite the opposite, Vers. We've got a plethora of mainstream groups that support the LGBTQ+ crowd, people that preach in advoacy of immigration, people who rally against oppressive governments, etc. It's no "worse".

Yet slavery was the key issue, and white supremacy continues to be what motivates the erection and/or protection of confederate monuments.

There's always smaller reasons, but the primary source documents prove the war was about the states rights to protect slavery.

We disagree on a lot. And the main thing we disagree with is that I am not here to argue. I was simply expressing my opinion. I don't take one side or the other in these arguments that you guys have where none of you ever budge an inch.

I'm not interested in one-sided vs one-sided discussions.

Jc

Yo, when y’all lay in the bed, do you ever get this relief feeling in the ankles? Like that feeling of the stress just washing away. So relaxing.

I want to try and extrapolate a bit on the my earlier comments because I feel bad if I seemed insensitive in the eyes of guys like Swish and Clem .

I think you guys know by now that I have been sympathetic and understanding of the plight of minorities in our country. I still feel the same way. And if getting rid of the statues makes y'all feel better......get rid of them.

I was speaking more in regards to censorship and/or exposure of information. Swish.........you are a very introspective and intelligent young man. Clem, you are a very wise man. I think I also have above average intelligence.

Personally, I like being presented w/all the information possible. Show me the brick-throwing angry black person and show me the stone-cold statue that represents the old south. Let me read the Grapes of Wrath and Malcolm X's biography. Let me see the somewhat scary rituals of religious ceremonies and the tribal dances of the Sioux. Allow me to experience the parties at the houses of the doctors who my wife works with and let me party w/my ghetto brothers from years gone by.

I want to see it all. I don't want any of it banned, censored, or removed from public consumption.

I feel I am intelligent enough to decipher what is good and what is not so good all on my own. I don't need a government to tell me what I can view and what I can't view.

I sincerely hope that makes sense to you guys.

I've provided ample evidence about what causes the rise of Confederate statues, and the actual arguments of Confederate leaders for succeeding.

Let me know what other factual historical documents I can provide which state their reasons in their words. I just used two websites of about 10 I immediately pulled up.
-----------------------------


I think you miss the point; I'm not arguing. I'm merely providing factual details of the arguments from those who started the Civil War.

I'm sorry that historical primary source documents from the confederacy show their one-sided arguments against slavery. I think we can agree fighting for white supremacy is a terrible idea. I wish the south would've known better.

I'd recomend you take up your complaint with the confederate leaders about being one-sided for slavery. I'm not sure who you could really reach. Oh wait, I know who could help you!

Call these guys. I'm sure they'll answer the phone for you!

As a person who lives in the South, I would say that the people who live here are fine with their National Parks, Battlefields, Statues, and Monuments.

It's all the asshats who don't live here that have a problem with it.

Go back to your own neighborhoods, yo, and fix that, before you try to come tell us what to do in our own house.

You do recognize the irony in your statement, correct?

Go fix your igloo, then come tell me about it.

You have zero clue about the South or Southern Culture.

I have been alive for somewhere around 360 months. 10 of those months were spent living in Florida. 10 divided by 360 equals out to 0.027777 with the 7 repeating. Make that into a percentage, and 2.78% (if you're okay with the rounding) of my life has been spent living in the south. 2.78% > 0%. In this case, 0=nothing, and I am more than nothing on this.

Diam's the math guy; I'm sure we could get him to check my math on this one.

How many months of your life did you spend in Alaska? What do you know about igloos?

What does alaska have to do with the topic at hand?

Beats me. Eve brought it up.

You lived 10 months in Florida. Oh whoopy doo. I have been here for 24 years. In the armpit of the South and Civil War area. There are literal Civil War battlefield national parks 20 miles from my house. Atlanta is literally built on the remains of what was burned down.

Apparently you learned nothing about the South during your whole 10 months here.

I don't claim, or care, anything about Alaska. But you sure rush to judgement about Us.

You do realize this is 2019 and not 1860, right? You do realize that Southern People recognize history as HISTORY, and not CURRENT TIMES?

You are nothing but a product of your own internal hate. You can't accept that an area grows beyond it's past because you would have to give up some of your hate. The people who live here are so much more evolved than you dude. Maybe someday a light will click on in your brain.

Give up your hate. Grow as a person.

Just wanted to clarify I spent time down there. Not sure where I claim I'm an expert or anything.



I mean that's a judgement call. You're entitled to your opinion and views of me. Not going to spend energy trying to convince you otherwise about my character.



Yet you bring up igloos? I'm confused.



I wonder if anyone rushes to judgement about me on here?



Yep. I recognize many people in our nation want to turn the clocks back to pre 1960s when "America was great!"



I'm curious, what do I hate? Please provide me with factual basis of what I hate.

You live in pre 1960s history. You have never joined us in today's world. I have only ever seen you post about the distant past and how bad and evil everyone today is because way way way centuries ago somebody was wronged.

Please do evolve to 2019.

Please do understand that this isn't 1860. Or even before then.

Flew over your head. Flying igloo. Imagine that.

In both cases they were enemies against The United states of America. In both vases they slaughtered American soldiers. Actually, the Confederate army killed more American soldiers than were killed in WW2. You can try to minimize that in any way that makes you feel better.

But that's not really the point. The point was all of those saying, "Without those monuments we are burying history. We need to keep history in the public so we never forget."

By those standards the same would apply for both.

This thread should be titled: "GOP legislates the right to hold onto hate!"

If we look at the graph from the tweet, in the link, I saw 2 correlations.

A spike in confederate monuments around WW I, and the assasination of JFK.

They have that right already. They are trying to legislate the right to continue to parade hate around their hero’s statues in our cities and parks in the USA. This crap belongs in a confederate museum of some kind or maybe they should be put in the equal rights museum in DC just to piss off the KKK and other hate groups who want to keep this crap on display in our cities.

It was during the times of Jim Crow/Plessy v. Ferguson, and right around the time MLK advocated for Civil Rights.

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.