Former President Donald Trump’s legal team has issued a response to the Department of Justice’s court filing attempting to stop him from getting the confidential records back that were removed from his Mar-a-Lago residence during the FBI’s search earlier this month.
In its response, filing to the U.S. District Court in southern Florida, Trump’s team insists that the FBI’s raid was “unprecedented, unnecessary and legally unsupported” and hints at Trump’s plans to run for president in 2024.
“Three weeks after an unprecedented, unnecessary, and legally unsupported raid on the home of a President—and possibly a candidate against the current chief executive in 2024—the Government, represented by the Department of Justice and the United States Attorney’s Office, has filed an extraordinary document with this Court, suggesting that the DOJ, and the DOJ alone, should be entrusted with the responsibility of evaluating its unjustified pursuit of criminalizing a former President’s possession of personal and Presidential records in a secure setting,” the filing reads.
The document accepts that classified material was found at Trump’s residence but asserts the National Archives should have expected that would be among the finds in the 15 boxes, as they were presidential records. Trump’s team downplays the Justice Department’s concerns about the recovered material, saying there was no “cause for alarm.”
“The purported justification for the initiation of this criminal probe was the alleged discovery of sensitive information contained within the 15 boxes of Presidential records,” Trump’s attorneys write. “But this ‘discovery’ was to be fully anticipated given the very nature of Presidential records. Simply put, the notion that Presidential records would contain sensitive information should have never been cause for alarm.”
Rather, the former president’s lawyers state that under the Presidential Records Act, the National Archives “should have simply followed up... in a good faith effort to secure the recovery of the Presidential records.”
Trump’s attorneys say that “there is no question and, indeed there is broad agreement, that the matters before this Court center around the possession, by a President, of his own Presidential records.”
In its 36-page document released Tuesday night, however, the DOJ asserted that “those records do not belong to him” and instead belong to the government.
The filings stem from a civil lawsuit filed by Trump in an attempt to impose a special master to review the documents taken from the former president, which the DOJ has opposed, along with examining the issue of executive privilege. A special master would be someone independent and appointed by a court; for example, a retired judge.
Trump’s attorneys added that without a special master, prosecutors will “impugn, leak and publicize” details of its investigation.
Trump’s attorneys also lashed the DOJ for submitting an image to the court that shows “allegedly” classified material strewn across a room at Mar-a-Lago.
“The Government’s Response gratuitously included a photograph of allegedly classified materials, pulled from a container and spread across the floor for dramatic effect,” they write.
On Wednesday, Trump took to his Truth Social platform to claim he had “declassified” the documents before he left the White House. The DOJ disputed this in its own filing.
A federal judge is expected to decide Thursday whether to appoint a special master in the case. On Saturday, a Florida judge signaled her support to approve Trump’s request.
Speaking to CNN after its release, ex-FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe said the response is “all over the map” and described the filing as “hysterical.”
“I couldn’t believe what they were saying,” he said. “They’re glossing over the point it’s actually not his records.”
________
just for clarification, Trump and his team claimed recently that these documents are fake and planted by the FBI. so why is Trump ranting about not existent documents that he declassified?
Classification procedures are pretty cut and dry, specifically to avoid the suggestion that a certain scenario "would be expected." The rules are the rules for a reason. I've seen people with stars on their collar get clearances revoked - or worse - for minor slip-ups. Hell, look at Petraeus. Even he, a decorated general and intelligence chief, received a misdemeanor conviction and a $100K fine. Should have gotten way more if you ask me. I'm guessing the information he revealed - to one person - was much less of a damaging nature than the classification levels of the documents found at MAL.
I have no idea why MAGA people can't comprehend the fact that once you're no longer president you don't have the same rights to documents as you had when you WERE president. None of this is complicated. But I guess when you have fooled a lot of people into thinking you're still president, maybe that's part of the problem. And would a sitting president even be allowed to take documents with that high a level of secrecy home with them?
Yeah, first he had his attorney's lie saying they handed them all over back in February. Then he refused to turn them over after the remaining documents were subpoenaed. Finally they felt they had no choice but go in and take them. Now to hear MAGAland tell it, it's all political and everyone's fault but trump's.
I'm late to this party, and have only read the posts on this page, but what were the classifications? I see the article at the top use the words "confidential documents", and if that is saying that the docs were classified as only Confidential, this is Mt Everest being made from a molehill.
There were several Top Secret / Sensitive Compartmented Information (TS/SCI). This is one of the highest security clearance levels. So, Trump has been trying to make a molehill out of the mountain in this case, Purp.
Yeah, and I'm actually glad Purp made mention of that, because Trump's lawyers are saying things like "sensitive" or "confidential" which are misleading because those actually are their own classification levels that are much lower. They're specifically avoiding the usage of things like SCI to avoid associating the context that you just did, OCD.
A federal judge on Friday unsealed a detailed list of the materials the FBI took from former President Donald Trump’s Florida home last month
Among the notable entries: “43 Empty Folders with ‘CLASSIFIED’ Banners.” There are other entries that have similar descriptions bringing a sum total of 48 empty folders that had “classified” markings.
I am assuming that they were at one point not empty. I also wonder if the intelligence community has any kind of labeling on the front of these folders that might give some idea what is missing
“43 Empty Folders with ‘CLASSIFIED’ Banners.” There are other entries that have similar descriptions bringing a sum total of 48 empty folders that had “classified” markings.
What was in those now-empty folders? What happened to the contents? Where are they now?
I fear that this guy still has material he shouldn't. And with his base personality profile, I can't imagine anything good coming from him still possessing them- if he even does.
__________________
I still to this day, have trouble dealing with the reality that America voted this guy into the most important, sensitive, demanding job on the planet. His basic nature has been on public record for 4 decades, and he's never been anything other than what he is today.
All of this could have been avoided if one half of America saw what the other half saw. Now, were on 'damage control,' with no guarantee that we'll actually succeed. He should never have advanced through the primaries.
“43 Empty Folders with ‘CLASSIFIED’ Banners.” There are other entries that have similar descriptions bringing a sum total of 48 empty folders that had “classified” markings.
What was in those now-empty folders? What happened to the contents? Where are they now?
I fear that this guy still has material he shouldn't. And with his base personality profile, I can't imagine anything good coming from him still possessing them- if he even does.
__________________
I still to this day, have trouble dealing with the reality that America voted this guy into the most important, sensitive, demanding job on the planet. His basic nature has been on public record for 4 decades, and he's never been anything other than what he is today.
All of this could have been avoided if one half of America saw what the other half saw. Now, were on 'damage control,' with no guarantee that we'll actually succeed. He should never have advanced through the primaries.
American voters had 16 other options.
I think it is the result of a number of factors - I probably can't nail them all down in a simple list but I will try:
- People expect a lot while not paying attention and giving a very little in return. - People are not paying attention and hope that there is a magic solution to the state of politics and the quagmire that we see with ineffective government. - Trump was this outsider that painted himself as a successful outsider (again - people not paying attention to reality). - Angst and frustration with the traditional candidates and politicians. - HILARY. Who ran a god awful campaign - inspiring no-one other than the people who wanted to vote against her. - A pathetically weak and insipid GOP - who went from opposing him and recognizing him for what he is, to kowtowing to him and realizing there was gravy to be made by being playing sycophant. - A spineless GOP and administration that watched the train wreck from the inside but were too afraid to do anything. Look at Liz Cheney - she spoke nothing but the truth - and she is an outcast in her own party where she represents more of their core principals than Trump could in a 1000 lifetimes. - Social media. - Brietbart and Fox and all the other cronies - all so much more effective at spreading a lie and brainwashing than the Democrats. MSNMC might be the ying to Fox's yang - but they are so much less effective at their spin and craft. - Apathy. The public gets what they deserve. There is simply not enough people who give a damn. Who want to dig and find truth and alternative perspectives, alternative view points.
Lastly - for all that Trump is an idiot and dullard in the general sense, he has a mobster's cunning and is brilliant at manipulating people, the media and the narrative.
Bill Barr Blows Up Every Trumpy Defense of the Mar-a-Lago Docs in Brutal Fox News Interview Justin Baragona Fri, September 2, 2022, 3:10 PM·4 min read
Bill Barr, the one-time attorney general under former President Donald Trump, told Fox News on Friday that the ex-president had no “legitimate reason” to hoard classified material at his Florida resort. Furthermore, he defended the Justice Department’s decision to raid Mar-a-Lago, arguing that the DOJ was “being jerked around” by Team Trump.
As a federal judge decides whether or not to grant Trump’s request for a “special master” to review the documents seized from his property last month, the Justice Department revealed on Friday just how careless the former president had been with state secrets at his private club.
In an eight-page inventory list, the department noted that Trump had casually mixed “TOP SECRET” documents with magazines, books, and his wife’s clothes. One box allegedly found in the ex-president’s office also contained “43 empty folders with ‘CLASSIFIED’ banners.” Federal prosecutors are mulling whether to charge Trump with criminal offenses under the Espionage Act and obstruction of justice.
Appearing on Fox News’ America Reports on Friday afternoon, Barr—who has distanced himself from Trump over the ex-president’s election lies—was immediately dismissive of Team Trump’s attempts to appoint a special master.
“Well, I think the whole idea of a special master is a bit of a red herring,” he flatly stated. He went on to say that Trump’s attorneys haven’t identified any private lawyer communications that should be insulated from government review, adding that everything else appears to be “seizable” by the feds.
DOJ Reveals Trump Kept Secret Docs Among Clothes and Gifts
“What people are missing, all the other documents taken, even if they claim to be executive privilege, either belong to the government because they are government records, even if they are classified, even if they are subject to executive privilege, they still belong to the government and go to the [National Archives],” Barr said.
“And any other documents that were seized, like news clippings and other things in the boxes containing the classified information, those were seizable under the warrant because they show the conditions under which the classified information was being held,” he added. “So I think it’s a red herring. I think it would, you know, at this stage, since they have already gone through the documents, I think it’s a waste of time.”
Co-anchor John Roberts noted that Trump and his allies have claimed the ex-president had a “standing order” to declassify any documents he removed from the White House when he left office.
“Is there any legitimate reason for those materials to be in the former president’s possession?” Roberts asked.
“No. I can’t think of a legitimate reason why they should have been—could be taken out of the government, away from the government if they are classified,” Barr replied. “I frankly am skeptical of the claim that he declassified everything.”
The former AG continued: “You know, because frankly, I think it’s highly improbable, and second, if in fact he sort of stood over scores of boxes, not really knowing what was in them, and said, ‘I hereby declassify everything in here,’ that would be such an abuse and that shows such recklessness it’s almost worse than taking the documents.”
Trump Lawyer Shrugs Off DOJ’s ‘Mundane’ Probe of ‘Espionage’ and ‘Obstruction’
Co-anchor Sandra Smith then said there “are some questions over the timeline” before stating that some critics wonder if “perhaps there was more room for the authorities to obtain these materials without raiding the president’s home.” She asked if the raid “was avoidable” and whether the DOJ could have just issued a second subpoena to obtain the documents, echoing Team Trump’s claims they were “cooperating” with the feds.
Barr, once again, didn’t mince words.
“I think for them to have taken things to the current point they probably have pretty good evidence. But that’s speculation and until we see that it’s hard to say,” he said.
“Let me just say, I think the driver on this from the beginning was, you know, loads of classified information sitting in Mar-a-Lago. People say this was unprecedented, well it’s also unprecedented for a president to take all this classified information and put them in a country club, OK?”
Barr added: “And how long is the government going to try to get that back? They jawbone for a year, they were deceived on the voluntary actions taken, they then went and got a subpoena, they were deceived on that, they feel, and the facts are starting to show, that they were being jerked around and so how long, you know, how long do they wait?!”
In the end, though Barr said he hopes “it doesn’t happen,” the former top attorney in the nation suggested that the DOJ may well indict the former president for hoarding classified documents.
“If they clearly have the president moving stuff around and hiding stuff in his desk and telling people to—they may be inclined to bring the case,” he concluded. “And there are differences of opinion on whether that makes sense. But we really have to know the facts to see, to make a judgment about that.”
Barr - one more of the ever growing list of RINO's who were once the apple of Trump's eye.
At some point, the MAGA Republican leaders are going to be forced to make a decision...continue to support their lying MAGA con-man and go down with him...or follow the lead of some of the 'more sane' GOPers like Barr who have come to realize Trump's game is over.
Documents at Mar-a-Lago Were Moved and Hidden as U.S. Sought Them, Filing Suggests The filing by the Justice Department paints the clearest picture to date of its efforts to retrieve documents from the former president’s Mar-a-Lago estate in Florida.
Give this article
By Glenn Thrush, Charlie Savage, Alan Feuer and Maggie Haberman Aug. 31, 2022 Sign Up for On Politics, for Times subscribers only. A Times reader’s guide to the political news in Washington and across the nation. Get it with a Times subscription. WASHINGTON — The Justice Department sought a search warrant for former President Donald J. Trump’s residence in Florida after obtaining evidence that highly classified documents were likely concealed and that Mr. Trump’s representatives had falsely claimed all sensitive material had been returned, according to a court filing by the department on Tuesday.
The filing came in response to Mr. Trump’s request for an independent review of materials seized from his home, Mar-a-Lago. But it went far beyond that, painting the clearest picture yet of the department’s efforts to retrieve the documents before taking the extraordinary step of searching a former president’s private property on Aug. 8.
Among the new disclosures in the 36-page filing was that the search yielded three classified documents in desks inside Mr. Trump’s office, with more than 100 documents in 13 boxes or containers with classification markings in the residence, including some at the most restrictive levels.
That was twice the number of classified documents the former president’s lawyers turned over voluntarily while swearing an oath that they had returned all the material demanded by the government.
THE GOVERNMENT’S FILINGRead the Justice Department’s response to former President Donald J. Trump’s request for a special master. The investigation into Mr. Trump’s retention of government documents began as a relatively straightforward attempt to recover materials that officials with the National Archives had spent much of 2021 trying to retrieve. The filing on Tuesday made clear that prosecutors are now unmistakably focused on the possibility that Mr. Trump and those around him took criminal steps to obstruct their investigation.
Investigators developed evidence that “government records were likely concealed and removed” from the storage room at Mar-a-Lago after the Justice Department sent Mr. Trump’s office a subpoena for any remaining documents with classified markings. That led prosecutors to conclude that “efforts were likely taken to obstruct the government’s investigation,” the government filing said.
The filing included one striking visual aid: a photograph of at least five yellow folders recovered from Mr. Trump’s resort and residence marked “Top Secret” and another red one labeled “Secret.”
But department officials are not expected to file charges imminently, if they ever do. And the specific contents of the materials the government recovered in the search remain unclear — as does what risk to national security Mr. Trump’s decision to retain the materials posed.
While the filing provided important new information about the timeline of the investigation, much of the information was mentioned, in less detail, in the affidavit used to obtain the warrant, which a federal magistrate judge unsealed last week.
Among the most crucial disclosures were those concerning the actions of Mr. Trump’s legal team and whether they had misled Justice Department officials and the F.B.I.
The Justice Department effort began in May, after the F.B.I. examined 15 boxes of documents the National Archives had previously retrieved from Mar-a-Lago after months of asking Mr. Trump’s representatives to return missing records. The bureau found 184 classified documents in that initial batch.
On May 11, department lawyers obtained a subpoena to retrieve all materials marked as classified that were not turned over by the former president.
“43 Empty Folders with ‘CLASSIFIED’ Banners.” There are other entries that have similar descriptions bringing a sum total of 48 empty folders that had “classified” markings.
What was in those now-empty folders? What happened to the contents? Where are they now?
I fear that this guy still has material he shouldn't. And with his base personality profile, I can't imagine anything good coming from him still possessing them- if he even does.
__________________
I still to this day, have trouble dealing with the reality that America voted this guy into the most important, sensitive, demanding job on the planet. His basic nature has been on public record for 4 decades, and he's never been anything other than what he is today.
All of this could have been avoided if one half of America saw what the other half saw. Now, were on 'damage control,' with no guarantee that we'll actually succeed. He should never have advanced through the primaries.
American voters had 16 other options.
Clem, I went back through some research last night and found out a couple things; I had saw that maybe the folders were like what we do in my office at work-take a folder and use it for a project and then when you are done, scratch out the header and repurpose the folder. That probably didn't happen here.
However, the folders did have a labeling system-even how they label their folders is highly classified. But, there is supposed to be on the folder the originator, a classification, and how I understood it a labeling of the contents.
The feds have probably been going back through their records and checking originators as to what was in these folder that were returned and what was in the folders with the missing contents. The different alphabet agencies have probably been scrambling for some time to protect methods/assets.
There is assumably a wide array of info that could be in there from weapons systems locations, weapons vulnerability, names of human sources and locations and who are the people within other governments helping them, intercepted signal intelligence and who we are bugging.
This is way the f past overdue library books. Depending on what was in there and what is missing-this is espionage or treason. . Oh, and Mccarthy said yesterday that there is nothing concerning many laws from having somebody convicted or currently in jail from running for president/and winning.
And another thing, I think that if trump is indicted (I do think he will) and convicted (don't have a clue about that yet), he will never serve a day in a normal federal prison. Way too many issues concerning secret service protections and other affordability's that a former president has to put him in a normal fed prison.
Something we must remember, the stealing of this classified material was not the work of just one person...Trump had help and those folks are in jeopardy of being charged and potentially taking the fall for stealing classified information as an accessory.
Chances are that the DOJ already knows who else might be involved and are asking for some cooperation.
I have a feeling this is much bigger than many of us might realize and involves many individuals.
The fact that we might be dealing with 'highly' classified information might limit the amount of information that is released to the public. I would hope that the identity of those involved in addition to Trump and a general explanation of their involvement would be released to the public at some point.
One last point I want to make..IMO, the DOJ and the investigative units of our intel services are way ahead of the curve when it comes to this investigation. The information currently being released publicly by the public judicial system is just the tip of the iceberg.
For me this is rather cut and dry.. Take classified documents from where they are supposed to be is against the law. If I had done that when I had that opportunity, I'd still be sitting in jail rotting away.
trump is so pathetic. I heard a clip from a rally. "they went thru my wife's things and even searched the bedroom of my sixteen year old son."
Oh, the horror! How could they? How could I be treated this way? "The FBI and the DOJ are driven by the radicals of the left and the media."
What a pathetic moaning cow.
How about this donnie. How about not stealing government top secret documents that do not belong to you. And then taking them to your country club where they were stashed all over the place including your desk.
A person of higher IQ may have returned everything when asked first and then subpoenaed. You sick POS.
I can not wait till the DOJ drags his chubby butt cheeks to court and he is cross examined. There he will make a complete fool of himself as he tries desperately to lie his way out of prison.
The fact that we might be dealing with 'highly' classified information might limit the amount of information that is released to the public. Much more info to come...mac
I hope so, but as you said, since there MIGHT be classified info we will never know what it is, or if it really exists.
Really? Do you think for a moment that Garland and a federal judge is going to sign off on a search warrant of an ex-president without proof?
Just review the legalities of the action. Look at the pictures of the bust. Documents clearly labeled. Of course the public is not going to see top secret documents.
The fact that we might be dealing with 'highly' classified information might limit the amount of information that is released to the public. Much more info to come...mac
I hope so, but as you said, since there MIGHT be classified info we will never know what it is, or if it really exists.
The photos themselves with the labels on them showing their secrecy levels already prove that they exist. I don't know how much more obvious that can be.
The fact that we might be dealing with 'highly' classified information might limit the amount of information that is released to the public. Much more info to come...mac
I hope so, but as you said, since there MIGHT be classified info we will never know what it is, or if it really exists.
The photos themselves with the labels on them showing their secrecy levels already prove that they exist. I don't know how much more obvious that can be.
You ever hear of photoshop? We will never know if you chose to believe we will never know. Im just here for the confusion
The fact that we might be dealing with 'highly' classified information might limit the amount of information that is released to the public. Much more info to come...mac
I hope so, but as you said, since there MIGHT be classified info we will never know what it is, or if it really exists.
The photos themselves with the labels on them showing their secrecy levels already prove that they exist. I don't know how much more obvious that can be.
Maybe. They do look like files marked secret, and they might be, then again maybe not.
I am not trying to cast shade here, but seriously, since when have you been so trusting of the FBI?
Since I watched people just make up BS and expect there to be any credibility associated with it. You don't have to be "so trusting of the FBI" in order to know pure BS when you hear it. Only one of these two scenarios makes any sense. Let's take a quick overview.....
First trump claimed he had already turned over all of the sensitive documents. They figured out that was a lie. Then they subpoenaed those remaining documents and rather than trump turning them over he tried to negotiate himself around a subpoena. This much we do know. Then, after refusing to comply with a subpoena they felt no other choice than to issue a search warrant to acquire those documents.
We know for a fact they demanded the documents from trump. We know for a fact that trump's legal team claimed they handed them all over, which was a lie. We know they issued a subpoena for the remaining documents which trump refused to comply with. So one story adds up and makes sense. All of the opposing BS are some made up false reality which doesn't make any sense.
So it's not some huge leap of faith on my part in trusting the FBI. It's more a matter of people reaching in fabricating supposed reasons not to trust them in this specific case.
Given the magnitude of what had to take place for the Attorney General to sign off on a search warrant of an ex-president.
Then have a federal judge ok the search.
One would think that the high profile of this case and the fact of the head of the DOJ's involvement. That FBI(agents) are somehow going to falsify or somehow doctor anything involved in a case of this magnitude is ridiculous. There are so many eyes on every aspect of this case. Nobody is going to do anything that has the potential to backlash.
The DOJ is pursuing justice at a unprecedented level. You can be sure that every "T" is crossed and every "I" is in fact dotted.
You see things like that all the time. I mean let's face it. Did a guy actually see Elvis at a Krispy Kreme in Memphis and he's not really dead? Was 9/11 really an inside job? Could your Aunt Jane have a penis and actually be your uncle? People can pull any crazy theory out of thin air with no substance to base it on. It's the old, "Yeah but what if". Anyone can do that. That doesn't mean it makes any sense.
I have an uncle that got on FB and declared Michelle Obama is a man. I confronted his disgusting take and he got all butthurt and that he’s allowed to have his ‘opinion’. Which I called out as garbage. Telling him he can have an opinion as to whether he likes chocolate over vanilla icecream, but he can’t have an ‘opinion’ over something that is factually incorrect. He got further butthurt that I was “disrespecting” him. Then he blocked me. Snowflake, racist, cancel cultural, MAGA hatter at its most deplorable. Blood may be thicker than water but his arguments are paper thin. I find many MAGA hatters have a hard time differentiating opinion from fact. I guess that’s why they gobble up the toxic garbage opinions that the Swanson’s heir shovels them every evening and consider it ‘news’. My uncle, like many of my other uncles, and my father, let Rush rot their brains. Tucker is just finishing off the scraps left behind. I don’t need my uncle in my life. I barely tolerate similar behavior from my dad… which isn’t to say I tolerate it, it’s more I try to look past it… because he’s my dad… even though he reminds me in the next breathe that I’ll burn in hell because I don’t go to church like a good Christian like he does. Oh the irony… that he’ll never see.
The Trumpian judge allowing Trump's Special Master filing to halt investigations will find herself impeached soon. I hope we purge all extremists from any positions of power in government, including politicians, our institutions, school boards, law enforcement, and anywhere else they are discovered. That's what you do to national threats; remove, incapacitate, incarcerate, or put them down like dogs (what would happen to most of us if we did this crap). Personally, I don't care if heads roll for the next 20 years, we need to weed out these terrorist fascist extremists. It's time to stop punishing the small fish brainwashed rubes and take this cancer out from the head down. Somewhere, the dupe factor has to kick in and if they see they were wrong they get a pass. But all those at the top and or in positions of power anywhere, those people need to be reduced to no longer being a threat.
The Trumpian judge allowing Trump's Special Master filing to halt investigations will find herself impeached soon. I hope we purge all extremists from any positions of power in government, including politicians, our institutions, school boards, law enforcement, and anywhere else they are discovered. That's what you do to national threats; remove, incapacitate, incarcerate, or put them down like dogs (what would happen to most of us if we did this crap). Personally, I don't care if heads roll for the next 20 years, we need to weed out these terrorist fascist extremists. It's time to stop punishing the small fish brainwashed rubes and take this cancer out from the head down. Somewhere, the dupe factor has to kick in and if they see they were wrong they get a pass. But all those at the top and or in positions of power anywhere, those people need to be reduced to no longer being a threat.
One more thought, sometimes the shoe is on the other foot. If Trump had his way he would have removed and replaced a far greater number of government employees in favor of his cronies.
They will do that anyway. The GOP is already planning impeachments of most of Biden's staff for far less. This woman is abusing her position to help/aid Trump.
ANY citizen with Top Secret/SCI documents in their home would be in PRISON now. Trump should be in prison, he is a former President- he has some special rights, but he's little more than a average JOE walking down the streets.
The person that coined the term RINO was Rush Limbaugh. I remember Rush as a fast talking loud mouth DJ at KQV in Pittsburgh Pa in the early 70's. he was an idiot then and nothing changed over the years.
Calling mainstream Republicans or Anti Trump Republicans a RINO is just silly.
THe real RINO's are those that used to be main stream, but switched to the Trump traitor train.
lmao bro, my guy said "there doesn't have to be a process. there can be a process, but there doesn't have to be."
man what? and whats crazy is he aids TOLD him there was a process, it and it HAS to be followed. but still, is he now claiming that he declassified the fake documents planted by the FBI just by thinking about it?
Regardless, classified or declassified, the documents belong to the USA and trump takin them to e moral lago was a crime. Victory for Garland and the DOJ.
lmao bro, my guy said "there doesn't have to be a process. there can be a process, but there doesn't have to be."
man what? and whats crazy is he aids TOLD him there was a process, it and it HAS to be followed. but still, is he now claiming that he declassified the fake documents planted by the FBI just by thinking about it?
I actually like the approach of saying "Okay, if you are claiming that these documents were declassified, please submit a sworn affidavit to the same."
The DOJ is having such a hard time finding document digitization vendors willing to work with Trump that it requested more time for the special master review
And they are the ones who requested this specific dude. LMAO. They should have found out what he thought of them first. I'm so happy that everything Trump is so stupidly inept at everything they try. A competent Trump would have us all wearing T swastikas by now. And his nasty little minions would be the jackbooted thugs they dream of being.
Former President Trump’s legal team resisted a request to declare whether an updated inventory released by the FBI of items taken during its search of Mar-a-Lago is accurate.
In a letter written Sunday but made public Wednesday night, Trump’s team sidestepped the request from Judge Raymond Dearie, the special master appointed in the case, at the former president’s request.
“Because the special master’s case management plan exceeds the grant of authority from the District Court on this issue, plaintiff must object,” Trump’s attorneys wrote.
The refusal to meet the court’s request comes as Dearie has pushed Trump’s team to back in court many of the claims Trump has made on television and on his social media platform that the FBI “planted” evidence at Mar-a-Lago and that he declassified the documents found there — a reason that matters little for the crimes the Justice Department is contemplating.
The FBI posted an updated inventory on Monday night that contained slightly different figures about the number of documents in each box, but was largely the same as the inventory first released earlier this month.
The Justice Department referenced Trump’s letter in their own filing before it was made public, saying all of the objections were “without merit.”
“The Special Master needs to know that he is reviewing all of the materials seized from Mara-Lago on August 8, 2022 — and no additional materials — before he categorizes the seized documents and adjudicates privilege claims,” the Justice Department wrote.
The Trump team’s Sunday letter also seeks to avoid instructions from Dearie to detail what type of privilege they believe a document qualifies for. Dearie asked the team to file the documents into six different categories, while the order initially approved by federal District Judge Aileen Cannon asks for just four — only asking for presidential records to be deemed privileged or not privileged.
“The amended case management plan goes beyond that grant of authority,” Trump’s legal team wrote.
The Justice Department pushed back, saying Trump needs to fully participate in the process he requested.
“Plaintiff brought this civil, equitable proceeding. He bears the burden of proof. If he wants the Special Master to make recommendations as to whether he is entitled to the relief he seeks, plaintiff will need to participate in the process,” the government wrote.
The fighting over the inventory and how to categorize the documents comes before Trump’s team has been able to see them. The parties have yet to secure a vendor to scan the documents so that all parties can digitally review them.
The government insinuated that vendors did not want to work with Trump, writing that none of the five companies they reached out to were “willing to be engaged by plaintiff.”
Trump’s team said the issue was the sheer volume of documents. In the Wednesday night letter, they say the nearly 11,000 documents taken during the search include some 200,000 pages.
It's honestly a brilliant tactic on his attorneys' part to drag out the proceedings. It smacks of a lack of merit to their assertions, but tactically, my hat goes off to them.
That last line, though...11,000 documents taken with over 200,000 pages!?!?!? That's an unconscionable amount of information.
I remember a time many were upset about frivolous lawsuits and weighing down the court system with meaningless, needless dragging out of cases costing the system wasted time and money. You don't hear nearly as much about that anymore.
at this point these clowns are intentionally trying to go to prison. that or find a reason to flee to a country like russia and get that citizenship like their boy Snowden.
I heard on way home tonight that trump told one of his lawyers to sign stating that all docs that he had have been returned and the lawyer told him no-because the lawyer does not know/believe that trump os telling the truth.
And it is also being reported that trump himself went through and packed some of the boxes himself
Trump said former President George H.W. Bush kept secret government documents in a combination bowling alley/Chinese restaurant and should be investigated. Bush died in 2018. Isabella Zavarise and Hannah Getahun 10 hours ago
Donald Trump was at a GOP campaign rally in Arizona to support gubernatorial candidate Kari Lake. Trump defended keeping classified documents by accusing past presidents of doing the same. He claimed George H.W. Bush stored documents at a former bowling alley turned Chinese restaurant.
At a GOP campaign rally on Sunday in Arizona, former President Donald Trump took the opportunity to defend keeping classified documents by accusing past presidents of doing the same.
Trump said many other presidents stored millions of pages of documents in warehouses, "some of them without front doors that worked."
His speech erroneously claimed former President Barack Obama moved over 33 million pages of documents to a former furniture store in Chicago. The National Archives previously debunked this claim, saying they transported 30 million unclassified documents to a secure federal facility in Chicago.
Trump then falsely claimed that former President George H.W. Bush, "took millions and millions of documents to a former bowling alley pieced together with what was then an old and broken Chinese restaurant. They put them together. And it had a broken front door and broken windows. Other than that it was quite secure."
Trump also questioned why Bush, among other presidents, was not being prosecuted. The former President died in a Houston hospital from a blood infection in 2018 after his wife, Barbara, died months earlier.
His Arizona speech was nearly identical to the one he gave in Nevada on Saturday campaigning for Republican candidates Joe Lombardo and Adam Laxalt.
The comment prompted a response on Twitter from Bush's son, Jeb Bush, who replied to a clip of Trump during Saturday's Nevada rally. "I am so confused," he tweeted: "My dad enjoyed a good Chinese meal and enjoyed the challenge of 7 10 split. What the heck is up with you?" (A 7-10 split is when a bowler strikes all but the two rear pins.)
Trump is under investigation for keeping government documents at his estate in Mar-a-Lago, which federal agents seized in August. The DOJ found 48 documents marked classified at Trump's home and believe may be holding on to more. Former Trump lawyer Michael Cohen recently said the former president held onto documents for his own personal gain.
Trump was at Bell Bank Park in Mesa, Arizona, helping to campaign for GOP candidate Kari Lake, who is running for governor. FiveThirtyEight's averaging of poll data shows the state's gubernatorial race is a toss-up.
Representatives for the George and Barbara Bush Foundation and Trump did not respond to Insider's request for comment.
No doubt only Rebublican Presidents have taken presidential papers just like only Republicans have access to the beans that Jack used to grow his beanstalk..
No doubt only Rebublican Presidents have taken presidential papers just like only Republicans have access to the beans that Jack used to grow his beanstalk..
No doubt you believe trump because if trump says it … ..it’s true right?
Trump, a republican, is the one accusing Bush, a republican. Trump also accused Obama, a democrat.
trump a Republican, a known pathological liar. Yet trump and his sheep believe that projecting his flaws onto others is a defense. That’s the GOPer motif. Do something or say something horrid then defend it by making false accusation’s. Put the interrogation light on everyone but the culprit. Their good at it though gotta hand it to them. trump making false accusations about previous presidents. Pretty sure there is a civil law suit to be filed here.
No doubt only Rebublican Presidents have taken presidential papers just like only Republicans have access to the beans that Jack used to grow his beanstalk..
What evidence do you have that any other president regardless of party took secret and top secret documents with them when leaving The White House? I understand that just throwing crap against the wall to see what sticks has become a popular sport but thinking people need a little more than that.
No doubt only Rebublican Presidents have taken presidential papers just like only Republicans have access to the beans that Jack used to grow his beanstalk..
What evidence do you have that any other president regardless of party took secret and top secret documents with them when leaving The White House? I understand that just throwing crap against the wall to see what sticks has become a popular sport but thinking people need a little more than that.
No doubt only Rebublican Presidents have taken presidential papers just like only Republicans have access to the beans that Jack used to grow his beanstalk..
You know, reading your posts sound more and more trump like every day. Not only did you not give any evidence to support your assertion, but the National Archives has shown this is a total lie....
Fact check: National Archives debunks Trump’s false claim about Bush documents
First, former President Donald Trump tried a false claim about the document-handling practices of former President Barack Obama. Now, Trump is making the same false claim about other former presidents.
In August, after the FBI recovered classified documents and numerous other presidential records from Trump’s Mar-a-Lago residence and resort in Florida, Trump declared that Obama had taken millions of presidential documents to Chicago. The National Archives and Records Administration quickly debunked his assertion, explaining it was NARA itself, not Obama, that took the documents to a NARA-managed facility in the Chicago area.
Then, at rallies in Nevada and Arizona this weekend, Trump not only repeated the false claim about Obama but added near-identical dishonesty about previous presidents George H.W. Bush, George W. Bush and Bill Clinton.
Most dramatically, Trump said, “George H.W. Bush took millions of documents to a former bowling alley and a former Chinese restaurant; where they combined them. So they’re in a bowling alley slash Chinese restaurant.” Trump added, “A Chinese restaurant and a bowling alley. With no security and a broken front door.”
Trump also claimed that “Bill Clinton took millions of documents from the White House to a former car dealership in Arkansas” and that “George W. Bush stored 68 million pages in a warehouse in Texas.”
Facts First: All of these Trump claims are false. George H.W. Bush did not take millions of documents to a former bowling alley and Chinese restaurant. Rather, the National Archives and Records Administration took Bush’s presidential documents to this facility prior to the opening of the Bush presidential library in the same city. Trump’s claims about Clinton and George W. Bush are inaccurate in precisely the same way: NARA, not the former presidents themselves, put the documents in temporary storage at NARA-managed facilities at the former car dealership in Arkansas and the warehouse in Texas. And Trump was also wrong that there was “no security” at the facility where the elder Bush’s documents were housed: the facility was heavily secured, according to a news report at the time.
So there is no equivalence between Trump’s handling of presidential documents and those of his predecessors. In the others’ cases, the presidential documents were in NARA’s possession and stored securely and professionally. In Trump’s case, the presidential documents found in haphazard amateur storage at Mar-a-Lago were in Trump’s own possession, despite numerous attempts by both NARA and the Justice Department to get them back.
NARA sent CNN a statement on Tuesday, after the initial publication of this article, confirming that Trump’s claims are false.
The statement said that NARA had possession of Bush, Bush, Clinton, Obama and Ronald Reagan presidential records after those presidents left office and that NARA moved the records to temporary facilities NARA leased near the locations of their future presidential libraries. The statement continued: “All such temporary facilities met strict archival and security standards, and have been managed and staffed exclusively by NARA employees. Reports that indicate or imply that those Presidential records were in the possession of the former Presidents or their representatives, after they left office, or that the records were housed in substandard conditions, are false and misleading.”
Trump’s claims about George H.W. Bush
Trump urged the authorities to “look into what took place” with George H.W. Bush and presidential documents. But there is nothing of substance to investigate: the National Archives and Records Administration has been forthright since the 1990s about where it temporarily stored Bush documents before his permanent library opened. In fact, the NARA official who was in charge of the transition of the Bush documents to the permanent library publicly joked about the temporary facility at the time.
“I’ve told reporters this for the last four years: It’s not just a bowling alley; it’s a bowling alley and a Chinese restaurant,” David Alsobrook said.
While the temporary College Station, Texas, location made for a fun story, there was nothing unusual about NARA’s use of such a building. NARA needs lots of space to house presidential documents before presidents’ permanent libraries are built, so it finds and modifies large nearby facilities that often have formerly housed other activities.
Someone listening to Trump’s rally comments might have pictured documents from the first Bush administration being scattered carelessly in bowling lanes. But that’s not what happened. The Washington Post reported in 1993: “There aren’t any lanes anymore. No gutters, no pins, no beer. Thanks to a rush remodeling job after last November’s election, there are a few simple offices, a massive, fire-resistant vault and row after row of steel shelves filled with cardboard boxes and wooden crates.”
As NARA’s Tuesday statement said, there was also extensive security. The Associated Press reported in 1994: “Uniformed guards patrol the premises. There are closed-circuit television monitors and sophisticated electronic detectors along walls and doors. Some printed material is classified and will remain so for years; it is open only to those with top-secret clearances.”
Robert Holzweiss, who began working on the George H.W. Bush library in 1996 and is now deputy director, told People magazine for an article in early 2022: “When I got involved the temporary facility for the Bush museum was in College Station, Texas, in an old bowling alley. Without the alleys it was perfect, it was like a warehouse. They just built a secure space within to house the classified material.”
Bush died in 2018. His son Jeb Bush, the former Florida governor who ran against Trump in 2016 for the Republican presidential nomination, wrote on Twitter in response to Trump’s claims about the late president: “I am so confused. My dad enjoyed a good Chinese meal and enjoyed the challenge of 7 10 split. What the heck is up with you?” Trump’s false claims about Bill Clinton and George W. Bush
Trump’s rally claims about former presidents Clinton and George W. Bush are false for the exact same reason as Trump’s claims about Obama and the elder Bush are false.
That former Balch Motor Company building in Little Rock, Arkansas, where millions of Clinton presidential documents were stored? Again, it was the National Archives and Records Administration that took the documents to this facility, which NARA managed, in advance of the opening of Clinton’s library in the same city.
That warehouse in Lewisville, Texas where millions of the younger Bush’s presidential documents were stored? It was a NARA-managed facility, used to store documents while Bush’s permanent library was being readied in nearby Dallas.
The statement said that NARA had possession of Bush, Bush, Clinton, Obama and Ronald Reagan presidential records after those presidents left office and that NARA moved the records to temporary facilities NARA leased near the locations of their future presidential libraries. The statement continued: “All such temporary facilities met strict archival and security standards, and have been managed and staffed exclusively by NARA employees. Reports that indicate or imply that those Presidential records were in the possession of the former Presidents or their representatives, after they left office, or that the records were housed in substandard conditions, are false and misleading.”
Just wanted to repeat and highlight. But then - in this alternate universe we live in with a Deep State that is out to get Trump, who can believe what the FBI, the Intelligence Agencies or anyone in office says .... Ever.
You know what's so funny about the Deep State lie that Trump and his supporters have spun since the initial election .... this Deep State is far reaching, powerful ... but so inept that they couldn't prevent a WuckFit like Trump out of office. Hmmmmm 🤔
That’s the thing. people like Peen don’t care they’re being lied to. As long as their party has control. And when they don’t have control the get owned and run away like Peen just did.
A Trump aide was caught on security camera moving boxes from a Mar-a-Lago storage room before and after the DOJ subpoenaed Trump for top-secret documents: NYT Cheryl Teh 6 hours ago
Walt Nauta, a longtime Trump aide, was seen moving boxes out from a storage room the FBI searched. The incidents were caught on security footage, The New York Times reported. Nauta was seen moving boxes before and after the DOJ demanded top-secret files be returned in May.
A Trump aide was caught on security camera moving boxes out of a storage room in Mar-a-Lago, per a report from The New York Times. The Times did not view the security footage and Insider was not independently able to verify its contents.
The Times spoke to three people familiar with the matter, who said longtime Trump staffer Walt Nauta was seen on Mar-a-Lago's security footage moving boxes out of a storage room that was later searched by the FBI. This took place both before and after the Department of Justice issued a subpoena in May ordering Trump to hand over classified documents, per the NYT's sources.
Intrigue has swirled around what was kept in the storage room, and whether anything was removed from it before the DOJ searched Trump's property. The Times' piece dropped hours after The Washington Post reported that Trump himself explicitly directed employees to move boxes of White House documents from the storage room. These boxes were taken from the storage area to the former president's private residence after Trump advisers received the DOJ's subpoena in May, per The Post.
The FBI also interviewed Nauta several times before it raided Mar-a-Lago on August 8, according to one of The Times' sources.
After the raid, the FBI carted off 11,000 documents from Mar-a-Lago, including some that were marked "CLASSIFIED." Investigators found documents inside a closet in Trump's office and a storage area in the property's basement. Some of the documents the FBI found were so sensitive that investigators needed further clearance to view them. Among the documents retrieved was classified information on a foreign country's nuclear defenses, The Washington Post reported.
The DOJ is currently investigating whether Trump broke three federal laws — including the Espionage Act — by keeping the files at his Florida residence. In an August court filing, the Justice Department said it had evidence "that government records were likely concealed and removed" from the storage room at Mar-a-Lago, and that "efforts were likely taken to obstruct the government's investigation."
Nauta's lawyer, Stanley Woodward Jr., declined to comment on The Times' reporting. Taylor Budowich, Trump's spokesman at his post-presidential press office, told The Times the Biden administration was "colluding with the media through targeted leaks in an overt and illegal act of intimidation and tampering."
Budowich and Woodward Jr. did not immediately respond to Insider's requests for comment.
Trump employee tells FBI that Trump directed boxes to be moved at Mar-a-Lago after subpoena served
A Trump employee has told the FBI about being directed by the former President to move boxes out of a basement storage room to his residence at Mar-a-Lago after Donald Trump’s legal team received a subpoena for any classified documents at the Florida estate, according to a source familiar with the witness’ description.
The FBI also has surveillance footage showing a staffer moving boxes out of the storage room, the source told CNN.
The witness account of Trump’s actions after the subpoena was served in May coupled with the footage could be key to the federal criminal investigation that’s looking into a range of potential crimes, including obstruction, destruction of government records and mishandling of classified information.
FBI agents executed a search warrant at Mar-a-Lago in August and seized thousands of documents, including about 100 marked as classified. The FBI also subpoenaed the Trump Organization for surveillance video from the resort.
The Trump employee initially denied handling sensitive documents or boxes at Mar-a-Lago, according to the source. But the FBI developed evidence that prompted investigators to go back to the witness, who revised their story to say Trump had given instructions to move the boxes, the source said.
The Washington Post was the first to report on the witness account.
The Department of Justice has previously alleged that classified documents at the resort were “likely concealed and removed” from a storage room at Mar-a-Lago as part of an effort to “obstruct” the FBI’s investigation into Trump’s potential mishandling of classified materials.
After Trump returned 15 boxes of materials to the National Archives in January, the Justice Department subpoenaed Trump in May, seeking documents with classification markings that were still at Mar-a-Lago.
According to a lawsuit he later filed, Trump directed his staff to search for any remaining classified material to comply with the subpoena. After federal investigators retrieved documents from the resort in June, his lawyers later told investigators that they had searched the storage area and that all classified documents were accounted for.
Prosecutors said in August that that some documents were likely removed from a storage room before Trump’s lawyers examined the area, while they were trying to comply with the subpoena.
“The government also developed evidence that government records were likely concealed and removed from the Storage Room and that efforts were likely taken to obstruct the government’s investigation,” prosecutors wrote at the time. “This included evidence indicating that boxes formerly in the Storage Room were not returned prior to counsel’s review.”
Supreme Court rejects Trump's request in dispute over Mar-a-Lago documents
The decision means a special master reviewing documents seized from Mar-a-Lago cannot access classified papers as part of the litigation.
The Supreme Court handed former President Donald Trump a loss Thursday in his dispute with the Justice Department over documents seized from his Mar-a-Lago residence, rejecting his request that a special master be allowed to review classified papers.
The justices denied Trump’s relatively narrow emergency request in a brief unsigned order. There were no noted dissents.
The decision does not affect the Justice Department’s access to the same documents as part of a criminal investigation. The more than 100 documents marked as classified are just a small portion of the 11,000 records seized by federal agents in August amid concerns that Trump had unlawfully retained official White House records after leaving office.
The high court left in place part of a Sept. 21 decision by the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals that barred the special master, federal Judge Raymond Dearie, from reviewing the documents. Trump had not contested the separate part of that ruling allowing the Justice Department to use the documents.
The appeals court said certain documents are deemed classified because they contain information that could harm the national security, and for that reason people may have access to them only if they need to know that information.
Trump’s lawyers had said the decision to block Dearie's access “impairs substantially the ongoing, time-sensitive work of the special master.” They argued that "any limit on the comprehensive and transparent review of materials seized in the extraordinary raid of a president’s home erodes public confidence in our system of justice."
Solicitor General Elizabeth Prelogar, on behalf of the Justice Department, said in court papers that Trump would suffer “no harm at all” if the documents are temporarily withheld from the special master. Addressing Trump’s potential ownership stake in the documents, including possible assertions of attorney-client privilege of executive privilege, Prelogar said Trump had “no plausible claims.”
Trump sued the government after the August search of Mar-a-Lago, seeking to prevent the government from using them as part of a criminal investigation and asking for the appointment of a special master to review the documents.
Under federal law, official White House papers are federal property and must be handed over to the National Archives when the president leaves office. Trump says he did nothing improper and wants Dearie to determine the status of documents marked classified. Trump himself has said he had the power to declassify documents at will, although whether or not they are classified is a separate question from the legality of his holding on to presidential records.
Although the Supreme Court has a 6-3 conservative majority, including three justices he appointed, Trump has not recently fared well in other such emergency applications, including his attempt to prevent White House documents from being handed over to the House committee investigating the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol, and his bid to avoid disclosure of his financial records to prosecutors in New York.
trump organization faces fraud which includes his family members. Georgia case moving forward. You know the one where he asked Georgia to throw the election and find votes. He will be deposed in a rape case. Supreme Court blows up his appeal for master checking stolen classified docs.
For those who have at least an open mind who have listened to the Jan 6th hearing as told by republicans. Well there is that Jan 6th thing for dereliction of duty and failing his Oath of Office. Obstruction of justice and transfer of power. Inciting an armed mob to attack the capitol. Then doing nothing while it happened and Congress members and others were facing danger and police and others were dying.
Quite a resume for an ex president. The same guy who today remains a threat and continues to violate the law by still hiding stolen documents allegedly.
I can't wait till judgement day and the orange brat meets justice.
trump organization faces fraud which includes his family members. Georgia case moving forward. You know the one where he asked Georgia to throw the election and find votes. He will be deposed in a rape case. Supreme Court blows up his appeal for master checking stolen classified docs.
For those who have at least an open mind who have listened to the Jan 6th hearing as told by republicans. Well there is that Jan 6th thing for dereliction of duty and failing his Oath of Office. Obstruction of justice and transfer of power. Inciting an armed mob to attack the capitol. Then doing nothing while it happened and Congress members and others were facing danger and police and others were dying.
Quite a resume for an ex president. The same guy who today remains a threat and continues to violate the law by still hiding stolen documents allegedly.
I can't wait till judgement day and the orange brat meets justice.
Are you talking about the future republican presidential candidate?
I don't see him getting another vote that he lost before. He will not gain votes from independants and suburbia.
He lost the popular vote twice. I do not think he will gain ground anywhere. In fact I am not sure he will run. I think he knows he will lose. In fact I am not sure he would win the primary.
Hell he maybe be behind bars or in some kind of confinement.
A Trump aide was caught on security camera moving boxes from a Mar-a-Lago storage room before and after the DOJ subpoenaed Trump for top-secret documents: NYT
just checking to see if the civil war is still gonna happen? i just upgraded my phone at verizon and got that 14 max pro. so i can stream the war in 4k HD with the wifi signal coming out the SUV. just let me know which waffle house to post up at.
just checking to see if the civil war is still gonna happen? i just upgraded my phone at verizon and got that 14 max pro. so i can stream the war in 4k HD with the wifi signal coming out the SUV. just let me know which waffle house to post up at.
All that civil war rhetoric will be hitting hard right after Dems sweep their asses next Tuesday. All the cable news pundits are saying it looks bad for Dems, while completely discounting the Roe reversal, the right's radical agenda, and all the Trumpian crimes we've seen and are still seeing. Dems should run away with this election IMO. Pissing and moaning about the economy is all the right really has, not sure it will be enough this time.
So I imagine, from all the promises Trumpians are making, that if they lose the midterms and don't take control of either body of congress, then all hell will break lose. I guess we'll see.
Pissing and moaning about the economy is all the right really has
And their plan to fix it is to lower taxes on the rich. And reinstate trumps Twitter account.
It really doesn't matter if they have a plan or not. Most voters have no idea that inflation is a global problem at this time and I doubt they would care if they did know. All they know and care about is that since the dems took over inflation is terrible. They're having trouble feeding their families and paying their bills. Week to week survival and the ability to live the life they are/were accustomed to is more important to them than anything else and they're looking for someone to blame. It's a huge problem that stares them in the face daily. Living day to day is priority #1.
If anyone on the left still believes next Tuesday will have an outcome you will be happy with, you're in for a rude awakening. Voters have always voted with their wallets in such situations and this election will be no different.
I think the dems, Monday afternoon, should flood the airwaves promising to end all Camp Lejeune lawsuit solicitation... that could be the tipping point.
IMO, what Pit said is entirely true; and very hard to overcome.
Since we've been through two farcical presidencies now (1.5, but who's counting), I find myself often asking "what would Obama do?". He would have addressed the nation a while ago with a well-worded speech, explaining all the reasons for the inflation and some things we can do to "save ourselves" while we ride out the storm. He may have even admitted some fault, and what he would change in hindsight. He wouldn't be running around screaming "Putin's price hike!" ad nauseam.
Our last two presidents have made an absolute mockery of themselves (and the office) with their endless, childish, narrative recital. Thinking that if they repeat it enough, everyone will believe it instead of talking to people like adults. Unfortunately, we've entered an age when all these dolts are sold on "lockstep", it is that which will be the dem's undoing on Tuesday. jmo
It is sad. It seems both parties each gather independently in a room and ask themselves, "Who would be the worst candidate we could possibly endorse for president?" One would hope there would at least be a minimum threshold of a person who is smart and has good communication skills. But it appears they find such things to be offensive.
... with their endless, childish, narrative recital. Thinking that if they repeat it enough, everyone will believe it instead of talking to people like adults...
You are right. The problem is that they are right.
They keep repeating things and the people keep believing it. The more ridiculous the statement, the more people believe it
I think the dems, Monday afternoon, should flood the airwaves promising to end all Camp Lejeune lawsuit solicitation... that could be the tipping point.
IMO, what Pit said is entirely true; and very hard to overcome.
Since we've been through two farcical presidencies now (1.5, but who's counting), I find myself often asking "what would Obama do?". He would have addressed the nation a while ago with a well-worded speech, explaining all the reasons for the inflation and some things we can do to "save ourselves" while we ride out the storm. He may have even admitted some fault, and what he would change in hindsight. He wouldn't be running around screaming "Putin's price hike!" ad nauseam.
Our last two presidents have made an absolute mockery of themselves (and the office) with their endless, childish, narrative recital. Thinking that if they repeat it enough, everyone will believe it instead of talking to people like adults. Unfortunately, we've entered an age when all these dolts are sold on "lockstep", it is that which will be the dem's undoing on Tuesday. jmo
I’d just like to add that the high odds will be that the same two people will face off against each other in 2024.
It is sad. It seems both parties each gather independently in a room and ask themselves, "Who would be the worst candidate we could possibly endorse for president?" One would hope there would at least be a minimum threshold of a person who is smart and has good communication skills. But it appears they find such things to be offensive.
I can't say I disagree with you. That's why I stated you would think that the two major parties would at least promote nominating a candidate that is smart and can communicate well. But as we can see it seems they have no minimum standard at all.
No doubt only Rebublican Presidents have taken presidential papers just like only Republicans have access to the beans that Jack used to grow his beanstalk..
What evidence do you have that any other president regardless of party took secret and top secret documents with them when leaving The White House? I understand that just throwing crap against the wall to see what sticks has become a popular sport but thinking people need a little more than that.
Trump and his minions keep saying that Obama and both Bush presidents did.. The National Archives have blown this up but it doesn't matter, if trump says it, some idiot somewhere will believe it. (Just like Hitler did it,, tell a big lie, repeat it and some fool will buy itn) I am not sure I've ever heard of a president taking documents such as the ones that Trump took. Peen is once again doing his best "cry like a baby" routine starting with the wooooo is me crap. Everyone is picking on me garbage.
No doubt only Rebublican Presidents have taken presidential papers just like only Republicans have access to the beans that Jack used to grow his beanstalk..
What evidence do you have that any other president regardless of party took secret and top secret documents with them when leaving The White House? I understand that just throwing crap against the wall to see what sticks has become a popular sport but thinking people need a little more than that.
I find it interesting going back and reading these comments.
I hope everyone that wanted Trump in jail will want Biden in jail too.
I find it interesting as well.
We'll find out if the outrage was over secret documents, or over Trump, and R vs. the curent D. Lack of accusing Biden of treason, sabotage, etc, making excuses for Biden. Not gonna cut it. The same people that wanted trumps head over this better be calling for biden's as well.
And we're just learning of new biden taken classified documents, involving Ukraine. Weird. Burisma? Hunter?
I find it interesting going back and reading these comments.
I hope everyone that wanted Trump in jail will want Biden in jail too.
I find it interesting as well.
We'll find out if the outrage was over secret documents, or over Trump, and R vs. the curent D. Lack of accusing Biden of treason, sabotage, etc, making excuses for Biden. Not gonna cut it. The same people that wanted trumps head over this better be calling for biden's as well.
And we're just learning of new biden taken classified documents, involving Ukraine. Weird. Burisma? Hunter?
One denied and purposely hid thousands. One found mistakenly placed documents and reported them immediately.
I find it interesting going back and reading these comments.
I hope everyone that wanted Trump in jail will want Biden in jail too.
I find it interesting as well.
We'll find out if the outrage was over secret documents, or over Trump, and R vs. the curent D. Lack of accusing Biden of treason, sabotage, etc, making excuses for Biden. Not gonna cut it. The same people that wanted trumps head over this better be calling for biden's as well.
And we're just learning of new biden taken classified documents, involving Ukraine. Weird. Burisma? Hunter?
One denied and purposely hid thousands. One found mistakenly placed documents and reported them immediately.
I think that is the point with trump. It really wasn't a big deal that he had those documents. It became a big deal when he refused to return them, then defied a subpoena to return them. Had he just returned them when he was asked for them we probably never would have found out he had them.
Funny how the goal posts have moved. Originally it was "trump had classified stuff", and now after biden has the same thing, it's "trump had more, and he didn't return them", mean while, Biden had them (and who knows how many more he has?????? He certainly hasn't come out and said "I have some" - they got discovered.
What has been lost over the years? Ukraine documents? How many more are there? People bitching about trump damn well better bitch about biden. If not, they are 2 faced boot suckers based on politics. Period.
Funny how the goal posts have moved. Originally it was "trump had classified stuff", and now after biden has the same thing, it's "trump had more, and he didn't return them", mean while, Biden had them (and who knows how many more he has?????? He certainly hasn't come out and said "I have some" - they got discovered.
What has been lost over the years? Ukraine documents? How many more are there? People bitching about trump damn well better bitch about biden. If not, they are 2 faced boot suckers based on politics. Period.
Biden didn't have anything. They were in a meeting room. And no one knew they were there. So no Biden doesn't have the same thing.
Biden took top secret documents. Period. That he knows about it, but can claim he doesn't, speaks to his mentality.
Regardless - biden had top secret documents, some relating to Ukraine (I wonder what that could be about), and now there are more in a different location.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander. The FBI ought to be raiding his homes soon.
I have an idea -- why don't we just fix this going forward.
The new rule: All Top Secret Documents are Belong to Us.
You remove them from where they live, it is a criminal act. That includes everyone from Jeff in the mail room to the POTUS.
Great, except we already have laws for these docs, and in both cases, they may have been broken. You don't get punished with future laws, Fate; you get punished with the ones on the books when you broke the law. Trump should go to jail, Biden should be investigated, and if guilty, charged,
No crap. Doesn't mean you don't correct stupid before it has the chance to be stupid again. Top Secret = off limits for anyone's leisure reading or for those who may "mistakenly place" them.
Biden didn't have anything. They were in a meeting room. And no one knew they were there.
Is that a good thing?
Not a good thing. It's very concerning. It's very serious and needs to investigated and light shined on it. It needs to be addressed fully. But the implication by some that this is the same as what trump did - no.
Funny how the goal posts have moved. Originally it was "trump had classified stuff", and now after biden has the same thing, it's "trump had more, and he didn't return them", mean while, Biden had them (and who knows how many more he has?????? He certainly hasn't come out and said "I have some" - they got discovered.
What has been lost over the years? Ukraine documents? How many more are there? People bitching about trump damn well better bitch about biden. If not, they are 2 faced boot suckers based on politics. Period.
Obviously in your blindness you don't see the difference between the two situations. It was Biden's own people who found them. They voluntarily turned them over immediately. No subpoena was needed. No search warrant was needed because he lied about having hundreds more.
In your wanna be gotchya moment, at the time I posted that there was no evidence that any other president had secret documents after leaving office. Now there is . Investigate it just like they did trump. And BTW- so far even after lying to the FBI and hiding hundreds of documents trump hasn't been charged with a crime. Even after refusing to comply with a subpoena trump hasn't been charged with a crime.
Those who refused to bitch about trump better not bitch about Biden. But naturally that ship has already sailed.
What? That thinking is insane. The goal post is exactly where it’s always been. (R) beside your name, FG GOOD. (D) beside your name, FG BAD.
You didn’t even post in this thread until now Proving that you’re ignorant here or you didn’t give the trump case any credibility to begin with. But now Biden is guilty as sin. We get it.
Funny how the goal posts have moved. Originally it was "trump had classified stuff", and now after biden has the same thing, it's "trump had more, and he didn't return them", mean while, Biden had them (and who knows how many more he has?????? He certainly hasn't come out and said "I have some" - they got discovered.
What has been lost over the years? Ukraine documents? How many more are there? People bitching about trump damn well better bitch about biden. If not, they are 2 faced boot suckers based on politics. Period.
Biden didn't have anything. They were in a meeting room. And no one knew they were there. So no Biden doesn't have the same thing.
My goal posts haven't moved. You are comparing them to other people's.
I think trump having classified stuff is wrong but not egregious. He was president and had unfettered access to them. End of term gets chaotic (especially his) and things happen. I think Biden having those classified items where they were is wrong but not egregious. He was vice president and had unfettered access to them. End of term gets chaotic and things happen.
The difference is biden found then and said oops my bad, here you go. Trump denied having them tried to hide the fact that he had them, refused to return them even with a subpeona and he sat there say my precious.
The part that was egregious was lying that he turned them all over. Defying a subpoena and after months still refusing to turn them over to the point that a search warrant was needed to get them. But they never allow facts to get in the way.
I'm late to this party, and have only read the posts on this page, but what were the classifications? I see the article at the top use the words "confidential documents", and if that is saying that the docs were classified as only Confidential, this is Mt Everest being made from a molehill.
It wasn't just confidential. It was Secret and top secret.. See below
How did either end up with documents? How many other former Presidents have some? Who keeps track of this stuff to begin with?
Trump having them is a bad thing, Biden also having some leads to a lack of proper tracking of such documents.
Hell, they know when you check out a book at the library, but classified documents are just handed out without any sort of sign out or tracking system?
How did either end up with documents? How many other former Presidents have some? Who keeps track of this stuff to begin with?
Trump having them is a bad thing, Biden also having some leads to a lack of proper tracking of such documents.
Hell, they know when you check out a book at the library, but classified documents are just handed out without any sort of sign out or tracking system?
Agreed... would also add, what exactly were the documents? I understand that they are 'top secret' and 'classified'... but feel we overly classify things in this country.. I'm curious how critical the documents are to our national security...
also, asking for Biden's home visitor logs is ridiculous... I understand he's the president but who keeps a visitor log for their personal home?
How did either end up with documents? How many other former Presidents have some? Who keeps track of this stuff to begin with?
Trump having them is a bad thing, Biden also having some leads to a lack of proper tracking of such documents.
Hell, they know when you check out a book at the library, but classified documents are just handed out without any sort of sign out or tracking system?
Agreed... would also add, what exactly were the documents? I understand that they are 'top secret' and 'classified'... but feel we overly classify things in this country.. I'm curious how critical the documents are to our national security...
also, asking for Biden's home visitor logs is ridiculous... I understand he's the president but who keeps a visitor log for their personal home?
Those were my questions as well when it came out that Biden also had documents. I mean, Trump is your basic petulant child, so that was no surprise; and it seemed his biggest undoing was refusing to give them back. But Biden was VP, and his trail of docs appears to be anything but secure.
We probably won't be privy to the content of these docs, which just serves to power the rumor mill. But what constitutes "classified" and "top secret", and why can anyone remove them from their place?? Absurd.
Then I read of some underling that took home some docs, for work, during COVID lockdown -- and is now in prison.
Hopefully this prompts some strict rules that are actually enforced from top to bottom, this has been a joke. And while we argue about Trump and Biden, the rest of the world laughs.
How did either end up with documents? How many other former Presidents have some? Who keeps track of this stuff to begin with?
Trump having them is a bad thing, Biden also having some leads to a lack of proper tracking of such documents.
Hell, they know when you check out a book at the library, but classified documents are just handed out without any sort of sign out or tracking system?
Agreed... would also add, what exactly were the documents? I understand that they are 'top secret' and 'classified'... but feel we overly classify things in this country.. I'm curious how critical the documents are to our national security...
also, asking for Biden's home visitor logs is ridiculous... I understand he's the president but who keeps a visitor log for their personal home?
Those were my questions as well when it came out that Biden also had documents. I mean, Trump is your basic petulant child, so that was no surprise; and it seemed his biggest undoing was refusing to give them back. But Biden was VP, and his trail of docs appears to be anything but secure.
We probably won't be privy to the content of these docs, which just serves to power the rumor mill. But what constitutes "classified" and "top secret", and why can anyone remove them from their place?? Absurd.
Then I read of some underling that took home some docs, for work, during COVID lockdown -- and is now in prison.
Hopefully this prompts some strict rules that are actually enforced from top to bottom, this has been a joke. And while we argue about Trump and Biden, the rest of the world laughs.
The rules are always different for the wealthy criminal..
Actually it hinges on whether it was with the intent to retain those documents. I mean I don't make the laws and I won't venture a guess either way whether it was or was not with the intent to keep them in this case, but the way the law is worded is that it's criminal of you tried to keep them.
(a) Whoever, being an officer, employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States, and, by virtue of his office, employment, position, or contract, becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than five years, or both.
No, no you didn't. I posted the very definitions of the word and nothing you post will change that. Thinking you are being sly my using some far fetched semantics that simply do not apply won't work.
No, no you didn't. I posted the very definitions of the word and nothing you post will change that. Thinking you are being sly my using some far fetched semantics that simply do not apply won't work.
There is nothing far fetched about the definition.
You have, yet again, assumed your skewed Merriam Webster definition of a word holds in a legal discussion, especially because it doesn't support your blind rage.
I really pity people who have to be around you on a daily basis. It has to be a miserable existence. Go get help.
I'll allow you to bask in you honesty believing that you have some clue to what a legal definition means with your extensive legal background Attorney Frank. Oh, that's right. Never mind. People can clearly understand what "intent to retain" means.
I'll allow you to bask in you honesty believing that you have some clue to what a legal definition means with your extensive legal background Attorney Frank. Oh, that's right. Never mind. People can clearly understand what "intent to retain" means.
Two of your tropes in one.
Just because it is inconvenient to you doesn't mean it is wrong.
Try using some context. Bask Attorney Frank, bask.
Try using some understanding.
Your contention seems to boil down to this. If you take classified documents someplace that you are not authorized to take them it is only a crime if you don't give them back when asked. That is idiotic. One of the issues raised with the Mar-a-largo bit wa shaving FBI agents that were not authorized to even look at what they were seizing. But it is only a crime to not give them back?
I gave you an accepted definition of "retain" that was "To keep in possession or use" which fits in this case. If you take them you have retained them. This is not even complicated.
Your ego does not allow you to be wrong. You really need to seek help with that.
Actually it hinges on whether it was with the intent to retain those documents. I mean I don't make the laws and I won't venture a guess either way whether it was or was not with the intent to keep them in this case, but the way the law is worded is that it's criminal of you tried to keep them.
Well, since we know Biden got them no later than 2016 (he got them as vice president under Obama) I would say their was intent to keep the classified documents, wouldn't you? I mean, he had them for 6 years.
Actually it hinges on whether it was with the intent to retain those documents. I mean I don't make the laws and I won't venture a guess either way whether it was or was not with the intent to keep them in this case, but the way the law is worded is that it's criminal of you tried to keep them.
Well, since we know Biden got them no later than 2016 (he got them as vice president under Obama) I would say their was intent to keep the classified documents, wouldn't you? I mean, he had them for 6 years.
Actually it hinges on whether it was with the intent to retain those documents. I mean I don't make the laws and I won't venture a guess either way whether it was or was not with the intent to keep them in this case, but the way the law is worded is that it's criminal of you tried to keep them.
Well, since we know Biden got them no later than 2016 (he got them as vice president under Obama) I would say their was intent to keep the classified documents, wouldn't you? I mean, he had them for 6 years.
Sounds like he "retained" them.
Do you have forensic evidence? Dental records?? Then it doesn't count here at Dawgtalkers.
If Biden knew they were there, yes. But if his intention was to retain them, why did he voluntarily turn them over? No subpoena was needed. No search warrant was needed because he refused to turn them over.
He retained them until he gave them back. Retention is not a forever thing nor does it need to be forceful. Retain = possession. He possessed until he didn't.
If you steal a car it isn't forgiven just because you give it back. The theft is the first crime. In this case the documents were stored (retained) which is the alleged crime. Refusing return could be additional crimes, but that was not what your original comment showed.
Sadly you seem to ignore the word intent. Secondly you must prove who actually stole the car. Personally I think it sucks the way some of these laws are written. They protect politicians and that works the same way for both parties. I'm not an attorney, I do however think it would be very hard to convince a jury that someone who handed these documents over voluntarily had the intent of keeping them. Who knows. But since no charges were ever brought in the case of trump, what do you actually expect the results of this will be?
I think everyone will walk away without any actual legal penalty.
Sadly you seem to ignore the word intent. Secondly you must prove who actually stole the car. Personally I think it sucks the way some of these laws are written. They protect politicians and that works the same way for both parties. I'm not an attorney, I do however think it would be very hard to convince a jury that someone who handed these documents over voluntarily had the intent of keeping them. Who knows. But since no charges were ever brought in the case of trump, what do you actually expect the results of this will be?
I think everyone will walk away without any actual legal penalty.
No I don't ignore the word intent.
By retaining these documents, for years, intent could be construed. By moving them away from secure facilities intent could be construed.
Sadly too many politicians do things that would get someone else jail time because they are "important". The only time it seems they get done for stuff is when the party thinks they need a sacrifice for political show, or they annoyed the wrong power broker. The system is broken.
That's how you label anything accurate that you don't like. When you have no other explanation, just put some negative label on it. In your world that solves everything for you. News flash. It doesn't.
That's how you label anything accurate that you don't like. When you have no other explanation, just put some negative label on it. In your world that solves everything for you. News flash. It doesn't.
No, that's how I label your lazy pot shots like "pot meet kettle".
You cannot have a discussion with merit so you say things like "pot meet kettle" or "you aren't very good at this" or any other the other tropey things that fall off your keyboard.
past tense: construed; past participle: construed interpret (a word or action) in a particular way.
He held documents for 6 years or there about. But he had no "intention" on keeping them?
Oh wait.. I forgot... TRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There does that make you feel better?
For the record, when discovered, Bidens team turned them over immediately.. No games
This conversation is getting STUPID...
Biden, having documents that he shouldn't does NOT absolve Trump from his actions of wrong doing both for stealing documents then denying he had them, then by accusing the FBI of planting them and then by demanding they be returned.
When honesty is called into question, you go with the one that didn't whine like a little baby when his hands got caught in the cookie jar. I always stand by the guy that stood up and is ready to deal with whatever is happening.
How documents were returned does not matter. The taking and keeping is the point and where the crime would exist. If there was mishandling of documents there should be sanctions.
No, that's how I label your lazy pot shots like "pot meet kettle".
You cannot have a discussion with merit so you say things like "pot meet kettle" or "you aren't very good at this" or any other the other tropey things that fall off your keyboard.
Accuracy comes in many forms. Sorry you don't like the way it's presented.
The taking and keeping is the point and where the crime would exist. If there was mishandling of documents there should be sanctions.
Now all that needs to be done is find out who it is that actually took them, under whose direction and if they were known to be there by whoever you propose should be sanctioned before they were turned over.
Only obviously you weren't paying attention to what I posted. Nowhere did I say any of that. He may have known all of that. The problem is you don't know the answer to that at this point any more than I do.
Neither were you, I said that's the mainstream media's approach. It wasn't an indictment on anything you did or didn't say.
"The problem" is not a problem though. You can only play stupid up to the point of them being moved originally. If you try to act like you had no idea they were moved around numerous times... (1) It's simply unbelievable, especially since they were in so many different places. I mean, you can say you didn't know someone smuggled drugs in your luggage -- but when we find the drugs under your dresser, behind the couch, and in the trunk of your car; no story will add up to 'gee, I don't know how that happened'.
(2) Even if you can sell ^that^ story (msnbc will eat it up) -- it only serves to prove you even more negligent in handling top secret documents.
All of the mainstream media’s approach. When we get the Fox News and Goper approach on trump’s actions over his taking classified docs. “Move along, nothing to see here.” Goper’s crack me up.
I actually based my response on the arrows you pointed upward to conclude you were responding directly to what I posted which I think you were. I believe your analogy is a bit contrived. I certainly have and do support the special counsel investigation of what happened here. I support that investigation expand which ever way the evidence leads it. The exact same way I supported it for the previous president. And I'm actually willing to post it here and not ignore it. That is quite a contrast than what we saw from others when the situation was reversed. Please forgive me for not jumping to huge conclusions when we have no details to base a conclusion on at this time. I'll leave that to you and certain others.
Former President Donald Trump offered a new explanation Wednesday for why the Justice Department found dozens of empty folders for classified documents at his Mar-A-Lago home in August, claiming he kept them as souvenirs, as the ex-president tries to downplay the extent of the sensitive White House records discovered at his Florida estate
How documents were returned does not matter. The taking and keeping is the point and where the crime would exist. If there was mishandling of documents there should be sanctions.
your trump colored glasses are OBSTRUCTING your view.
How documents were returned does not matter. The taking and keeping is the point and where the crime would exist. If there was mishandling of documents there should be sanctions.
your trump colored glasses are OBSTRUCTING your view.
Your TDS is obstructing your thoughts.
The crime is taking with the intent to possess them in an unauthorized place. Once that happens the rest is just silly pandering, hand waving and straw arguments. I also wish to see a process that is in place play out, I am am not one to just scream someone is guilty because the media, or someone on a message board says they are. We have a process from accusation to conviction in this country, and it should not be circumvented so people can have their feelz.
The most concerning thing is that the system for tracking classified documents is apparently flawed. It is a mess if no one knows where the documents are located.
The most concerning thing is that the system for tracking classified documents is apparently flawed. It is a mess if no one knows where the documents are located.
How documents were returned does not matter. The taking and keeping is the point and where the crime would exist. If there was mishandling of documents there should be sanctions.
BS... Trumps way shows CLEARLY he had intent to STEAL those documents. Bidens way shows he didn't. But you can't allow yourself to look at it that way. If you did, you'd have to give up on Trump
How documents were returned does not matter. The taking and keeping is the point and where the crime would exist. If there was mishandling of documents there should be sanctions.
BS... Trumps way shows CLEARLY he had intent to STEAL those documents. Bidens way shows he didn't. But you can't allow yourself to look at it that way. If you did, you'd have to give up on Trump
So you only care Trump did something bad.
If someone had illegal possession of documents that is a crime, you don't get points off for "returning" them nicely. It doesn't work that way.
How documents were returned does not matter. The taking and keeping is the point and where the crime would exist. If there was mishandling of documents there should be sanctions.
BS... Trumps way shows CLEARLY he had intent to STEAL those documents. Bidens way shows he didn't. But you can't allow yourself to look at it that way. If you did, you'd have to give up on Trump
So you only care Trump did something bad.
If someone had illegal possession of documents that is a crime, you don't get points off for "returning" them nicely. It doesn't work that way.
How documents were returned does not matter. The taking and keeping is the point and where the crime would exist. If there was mishandling of documents there should be sanctions.
BS... Trumps way shows CLEARLY he had intent to STEAL those documents. Bidens way shows he didn't. But you can't allow yourself to look at it that way. If you did, you'd have to give up on Trump
So you only care Trump did something bad.
If someone had illegal possession of documents that is a crime, you don't get points off for "returning" them nicely. It doesn't work that way.
If someone had illegal possession of documents that is a crime, you don't get points off for "returning" them nicely. It doesn't work that way.
I kinda does and there is lots of legal precedent. So there is that.... Oh and Biden didnt have them illegally there is precedent for determining that also
How documents were returned does not matter. The taking and keeping is the point and where the crime would exist. If there was mishandling of documents there should be sanctions.
BS... Trumps way shows CLEARLY he had intent to STEAL those documents. Bidens way shows he didn't. But you can't allow yourself to look at it that way. If you did, you'd have to give up on Trump
You don't know that. You also don't know, given the amount of time how may of the documents in Biden possession where given or sold away. Now I have seen reports of documents being held in California. I don't know how credible that might be, but it's out there.
This probably going to be a slow drip story that will consume the President and the Dems for a long time. I wouldn't be surprised if we start to see reports from the dems about the President suffering from diminished mental capacity.
"You also don't know, given the amount of time how may of the documents in Biden possession where given or sold away" Really just make things up now? I also dont know how many documents he peed on and ate. There that helps my case.
How documents were returned does not matter. The taking and keeping is the point and where the crime would exist. If there was mishandling of documents there should be sanctions.
BS... Trumps way shows CLEARLY he had intent to STEAL those documents. Bidens way shows he didn't. But you can't allow yourself to look at it that way. If you did, you'd have to give up on Trump
You don't know that. You also don't know, given the amount of time how may of the documents in Biden possession where given or sold away. Now I have seen reports of documents being held in California. I don't know how credible that might be, but it's out there.
This probably going to be a slow drip story that will consume the President and the Dems for a long time. I wouldn't be surprised if we start to see reports from the dems about the President suffering from diminished mental capacity.
Yes I do know that. His actions incriminate him. His and his teams attempts to hide and ignore the courts show his intent. It's clear to me that he did this with some other agenda in mind.
As for the slow drip thing, yeah, probably will haunt them for a while.
It wouldn't surprise me if the 'discovery" of the Biden papers was before the Trump raid in a effort to get ahead of the story. At least to provide a situation where neither man was charged by the DOJ. Now, if any effort is made to charge the former Preisdent, the DOJ would have to charge the sitting President as well.
I do find it troubling that the DOJ and White House conspired to put a hush on all of this or a good month or more until after the elections.
No, that is not true at all. They will each individually be investigated, charged, prosecuted, and punished accordingly with the crimes each committed, not equally or else... Such a GOPer.
They don't care about what's true. They just use a disclaimer like "it wouldn't surprise me". The FBI tried to get trump to comply with a subpoena for eight months before they felt there was no other way to get those documents than serve a search warrant. He turned over less than 40 of them and lied by saying that's all he had and his lawyers perpetuated that lie for him. There were still over 300 in his possession. Let's face it, they don't want to face the facts of what actually happened and try so hard to convince themselves of some conspiracy theory to try and make what trump did look less terrible.
No, that is not true at all. They will each individually be investigated, charged, prosecuted, and punished accordingly with the crimes each committed, not equally or else... Such a GOPer.
I didn't say equally. I said if one is prosecuted, the same treatment would have to apply to the other.
Yet there is one caveat you seem to be ignoring. That is the matter of intent which is included in the law you wish to claim should be prosecuted in both cases. There is obvious intent in one case and possible intent in the other one. Through the investigation it may be proven that Biden knew he had these documents and his intent was to hide them and keep them or it may not be proven. In the case of trump he refused to turn them over, turned over a small amount and lied claiming he had turned them all over while still keeping over 300 in his possession. Then refused to comply with a subpoena for months until a search warrant had to be issued to get those documents. If it's proven that Biden knew those documents were there before turning them over you are certainly correct. trump on the other hand has proven the case by his own actions. Bigly.
Yet there is one caveat you seem to be ignoring. That is the matter of intent which is included in the law you wish to claim should be prosecuted in both cases. There is obvious intent in one case and possible intent in the other one. Through the investigation it may be proven that Biden knew he had these documents and his intent was to hide them and keep them or it may not be proven. In the case of trump he refused to turn them over, turned over a small amount and lied claiming he had turned them all over while still keeping over 300 in his possession. Then refused to comply with a subpoena for months until a search warrant had to be issued to get those documents. If it's proven that Biden knew those documents were there before turning them over you are certainly correct. trump on the other hand has proven the case by his own actions. Bigly.
What is the exact letter of the law and does intent matter?
"Sorry officer, you caught me driving drunk" vs "Sorry officer, I didn't intend to drive drunk but I didn't realize I was too broke for an Uber."
No kidding. The only thing he didn't intend was somebody finding those documents. You don't "accidentally" pack up classified documents, bring them home, and then scatter them around your properties.
The actual part of the law that shows intent is needed in order to be a violation of this law is posted in this thread. The accountability factor certainly isn't the same. I didn't make the law. I'm not even saying that I disagree with you. I think you need to keep in mind that laws involving politics and politicians aren't always written the way they are for the rest of us. And those same laws help protect politicians on both sides. And I feel safe in saying that we both disagree with that.
You don't "accidentally" pack up classified documents, bring them home, and then scatter them around your properties.
And who was it that did that again? You do understand that's what an investigation will help determine, right? Who packed them up? Under whose orders and how did they get there? It was actually Biden's lawyers who handed them over after they were found. I'm certainly interested in finding out the answers to those questions but I'm not one who tries to provide those answers before they are known.
You don't "accidentally" pack up classified documents, bring them home, and then scatter them around your properties.
And who was it that did that again? You do understand that's what an investigation will help determine, right? Who packed them up? Under whose orders and how did they get there?
The documents were in his possession and on his property, even his home. If someone else packed them up and brought them there, that doesn't lessen the severity of the situation. There's no accident or innocent mistake here.
Quote
It was actually Biden's lawyers who handed them over after they were found.
Biden's lawyers didn't hand over the documents discovered in Biden's home. They were found by FBI investigators and confiscated.
Yet there is one caveat you seem to be ignoring. That is the matter of intent which is included in the law you wish to claim should be prosecuted in both cases. There is obvious intent in one case and possible intent in the other one. Through the investigation it may be proven that Biden knew he had these documents and his intent was to hide them and keep them or it may not be proven. In the case of trump he refused to turn them over, turned over a small amount and lied claiming he had turned them all over while still keeping over 300 in his possession. Then refused to comply with a subpoena for months until a search warrant had to be issued to get those documents. If it's proven that Biden knew those documents were there before turning them over you are certainly correct. trump on the other hand has proven the case by his own actions. Bigly.
Intent can be a small factor, but it is still a crime for him to have the documents sitting in the garage. One also might look at the amount of time he has held the documents.
All of that aside and on to more just a question that has me a bit perplexed, and a serious question I can't get around.
Once the documents were discovered and known to exist, why isn't the FBI recovering these documents rather than the Presidents lawyers? The Presidents lawyers don't have top security clearance. It's not Ok for them to stumble upon them to review.
I am not saying anything nefarious is taking place. I am just wondering why the team of Biden lawyers is determining what is pertinent and what isn't might not be the best way to deal with top secret documents, and it does open the question of are they turning over everything, or sanitizing the scene?
This isn't about raiding the former President. I just don't get why top-secret documents aren't being handled by the FBI. And to be fair, I will say maybe they aren't top-secret. They are classified. Items receiving classified designation can seem rather innocuous compared to what most people might think.
They were found by FBI investigators and confiscated.
So .... to the point that some made earlier about equal treatment of Biden and Trump? Clearly Biden IS getting the same treatment, the infringement IS getting treated as seriously. . . . The difference? Biden is complying with and working with the authorities - Trump denied, lied, lied, denied and tried to get his lawyer to write a false statement.
But I guess now that Biden's transgression is demonstrably being treated in the same way - no one will want to focus on the differences, there'll be a new "gotcha" theme coming sometime soon initiated by Faux News.
I think a part of it was the President talking about irresponsible, reckless behavior only to find he had documents sitting in various unsecure locations for maybe 6 years.
You don't "accidentally" pack up classified documents, bring them home, and then scatter them around your properties.
And who was it that did that again? You do understand that's what an investigation will help determine, right? Who packed them up? Under whose orders and how did they get there?
The documents were in his possession and on his property, even his home. If someone else packed them up and brought them there, that doesn't lessen the severity of the situation. There's no accident or innocent mistake here.
Quote
It was actually Biden's lawyers who handed them over after they were found.
Biden's lawyers didn't hand over the documents discovered in Biden's home. They were found by FBI investigators and confiscated.
I don't think we are dealing with a strict liability crime, as the quoted statute mentioned intent, but if we were it would certainly change the discussion.
I think a part of it was the President talking about irresponsible, reckless behavior only to find he had documents sitting in various unsecure locations for maybe 6 years.
I think a part of it was the President talking about irresponsible, reckless behavior only to find he had documents sitting in various unsecure locations for maybe 6 years.
It wouldn't surprise me if the 'discovery" of the Biden papers was before the Trump raid in a effort to get ahead of the story. At least to provide a situation where neither man was charged by the DOJ. Now, if any effort is made to charge the former Preisdent, the DOJ would have to charge the sitting President as well.
I do find it troubling that the DOJ and White House conspired to put a hush on all of this or a good month or more until after the elections.
What wouldn't surprise me is to find out Trump Minions planted the info in Bidens facilities....
It wouldn't surprise me if the 'discovery" of the Biden papers was before the Trump raid in a effort to get ahead of the story. At least to provide a situation where neither man was charged by the DOJ. Now, if any effort is made to charge the former Preisdent, the DOJ would have to charge the sitting President as well.
I do find it troubling that the DOJ and White House conspired to put a hush on all of this or a good month or more until after the elections.
What wouldn't surprise me is to find out Trump Minions planted the info in Bidens facilities....
I have never given into conspiracy theories like that. But yeah I wouldn’t be surprised.
It wouldn't surprise me if the 'discovery" of the Biden papers was before the Trump raid in a effort to get ahead of the story. At least to provide a situation where neither man was charged by the DOJ. Now, if any effort is made to charge the former Preisdent, the DOJ would have to charge the sitting President as well.
I do find it troubling that the DOJ and White House conspired to put a hush on all of this or a good month or more until after the elections.
What wouldn't surprise me is to find out Trump Minions planted the info in Bidens facilities....
I have never given into conspiracy theories like that. But yeah I wouldn’t be surprised.
It's certainly no more far fetched than some of the crazy assumptions they have jumped to on these threads with no basis in fact to base them on. But I highly doubt this is the case.
It wouldn't surprise me if the 'discovery" of the Biden papers was before the Trump raid in a effort to get ahead of the story. At least to provide a situation where neither man was charged by the DOJ. Now, if any effort is made to charge the former Preisdent, the DOJ would have to charge the sitting President as well.
I do find it troubling that the DOJ and White House conspired to put a hush on all of this or a good month or more until after the elections.
What wouldn't surprise me is to find out Trump Minions planted the info in Bidens facilities....
It wouldn't surprise me if the 'discovery" of the Biden papers was before the Trump raid in a effort to get ahead of the story. At least to provide a situation where neither man was charged by the DOJ. Now, if any effort is made to charge the former Preisdent, the DOJ would have to charge the sitting President as well.
I do find it troubling that the DOJ and White House conspired to put a hush on all of this or a good month or more until after the elections.
What wouldn't surprise me is to find out Trump Minions planted the info in Bidens facilities....
What do you think is more far fetched,,,,, The FBI planting documents at Mar A Lago or Trump minions planting docs at Bidens home?
I mean, I bet you didn't laugh when Trump said that the FBI planted things did you? No,, you didn't.
I bet you didn't laugh when Trump said he wanted the planted docs back and that they were his... did you?
There is NOTHING funny about this situation.. Nothing!
I think a part of it was the President talking about irresponsible, reckless behavior only to find he had documents sitting in various unsecure locations for maybe 6 years.
There is a degree of humor in that, no?
If not humor, certainly irony.
Irony. It’s only humorous to the revenge party.
That isn't true. Revenge in and of itself is ironic and humorous.
It wouldn't surprise me if the 'discovery" of the Biden papers was before the Trump raid in a effort to get ahead of the story. At least to provide a situation where neither man was charged by the DOJ. Now, if any effort is made to charge the former Preisdent, the DOJ would have to charge the sitting President as well.
I do find it troubling that the DOJ and White House conspired to put a hush on all of this or a good month or more until after the elections.
What wouldn't surprise me is to find out Trump Minions planted the info in Bidens facilities....
Probably more likely that it is Democrats now through with Bides usefulness. Either way unlikely to be able to have them stuffed in 2-3 different locations.
Yep. Dems are done with him, so we set up this ingenious plot to take down Donny and Joe in the same swing. Do you ever stop to actually listen to what the hell those voices in your head are really saying?
It wouldn't surprise me if the 'discovery" of the Biden papers was before the Trump raid in a effort to get ahead of the story. At least to provide a situation where neither man was charged by the DOJ. Now, if any effort is made to charge the former Preisdent, the DOJ would have to charge the sitting President as well.
I do find it troubling that the DOJ and White House conspired to put a hush on all of this or a good month or more until after the elections.
What wouldn't surprise me is to find out Trump Minions planted the info in Bidens facilities....
What do you think is more far fetched,,,,, The FBI planting documents at Mar A Lago or Trump minions planting docs at Bidens home?
I mean, I bet you didn't laugh when Trump said that the FBI planted things did you? No,, you didn't.
I bet you didn't laugh when Trump said he wanted the planted docs back and that they were his... did you?
There is NOTHING funny about this situation.. Nothing!
LOL...Ok, Ok...don't have a conniption leading to a stroke. LOL
Either way unlikely to be able to have them stuffed in 2-3 different locations.
You do realize that the same thing happened with trump, right? Or did you forget about the two found in the storage unit?
Sadly some of you wish to act as though trump didn't make his intent to keep those documents crystal clear by his own volition. Those documents were subpoenaed. He and his attorney's fought that subpoena for eight months. So long in fact that they gave up getting him to comply with that subpoena and had no other alternative but to get a search warrant to get them. He even went so far as to make up some BS that all he had to do was think about it and they were no longer classified. He and his attorney's made his intent quite clear.
I know that it's difficult to admit the stark contrast between these two cases but it's quite evident for anyone willing to look at it.
So why arent they asking trump permission to search all his residences and homes and offices? ( they only searched one )He should let the FBI do it like Biden let the FBI do it.
Yes facts seem to be something certain people find inconvenient. Biden signed off on it and trump threw a tantrum over it. But I mean that's the same thing, right?
It wouldn't surprise me if the 'discovery" of the Biden papers was before the Trump raid in a effort to get ahead of the story. At least to provide a situation where neither man was charged by the DOJ. Now, if any effort is made to charge the former Preisdent, the DOJ would have to charge the sitting President as well.
I do find it troubling that the DOJ and White House conspired to put a hush on all of this or a good month or more until after the elections.
What wouldn't surprise me is to find out Trump Minions planted the info in Bidens facilities....
What do you think is more far fetched,,,,, The FBI planting documents at Mar A Lago or Trump minions planting docs at Bidens home?
I mean, I bet you didn't laugh when Trump said that the FBI planted things did you? No,, you didn't.
I bet you didn't laugh when Trump said he wanted the planted docs back and that they were his... did you?
There is NOTHING funny about this situation.. Nothing!
I think this needs to be put in the DSM-V as a classic exampe of TDR
Seeing others co-sign the original post just shows how whack this place is. But yeah, I thought maybe Daman may have forgot the purple with that last one... for about three seconds.
You still haven't figured out that TDR is ignoring anything and everything trump did by sticking your fingers in your ears going "La, la, la, la la, la" have you? Only the deranged sit back and stay silent when trump does something only to come out and make a big issue out of it when someone else does something similar. You guys are so creative!
Yeah Jfan. Haven't you figured it out?? You must make one post condemning Trump for every negative Biden post... you know, like they do... otherwise you're "deranged".
Pit's sandbox, his rules. Otherwise you will journey down a long road of whatabouts, until, well, you know how it always ends. lmao.
Awe. While some people have stood back and said nothing about anything and everything trump has done for years they point the fingers at others who have shown it all along. And now they act like they're the victims. The only what about here is where were you then? Nowhere to be seen, that's where. Now you're suddenly outraged.
It wouldn't surprise me if the 'discovery" of the Biden papers was before the Trump raid in a effort to get ahead of the story. At least to provide a situation where neither man was charged by the DOJ. Now, if any effort is made to charge the former Preisdent, the DOJ would have to charge the sitting President as well.
I do find it troubling that the DOJ and White House conspired to put a hush on all of this or a good month or more until after the elections.
What wouldn't surprise me is to find out Trump Minions planted the info in Bidens facilities....
What do you think is more far fetched,,,,, The FBI planting documents at Mar A Lago or Trump minions planting docs at Bidens home?
I mean, I bet you didn't laugh when Trump said that the FBI planted things did you? No,, you didn't.
I bet you didn't laugh when Trump said he wanted the planted docs back and that they were his... did you?
There is NOTHING funny about this situation.. Nothing!
I think this needs to be put in the DSM-V as a classic exampe of TDR
I bet GRT is totally going over his head like JKT-C
It wouldn't surprise me if the 'discovery" of the Biden papers was before the Trump raid in a effort to get ahead of the story. At least to provide a situation where neither man was charged by the DOJ. Now, if any effort is made to charge the former Preisdent, the DOJ would have to charge the sitting President as well.
I do find it troubling that the DOJ and White House conspired to put a hush on all of this or a good month or more until after the elections.
What wouldn't surprise me is to find out Trump Minions planted the info in Bidens facilities....
What do you think is more far fetched,,,,, The FBI planting documents at Mar A Lago or Trump minions planting docs at Bidens home?
I mean, I bet you didn't laugh when Trump said that the FBI planted things did you? No,, you didn't.
I bet you didn't laugh when Trump said he wanted the planted docs back and that they were his... did you?
There is NOTHING funny about this situation.. Nothing!
LOL...Ok, Ok...don't have a conniption leading to a stroke. LOL
So tell me Peen, did you laugh when Trump said the FBI planted those docs? Or did you believe him?
Did you think it was funny when he demanded them back? Did you laugh when he said they were his?
You know I"m right otherwise, you wouldn't try to laugh it off as if something is wrong with my thinking....
Awe. While some people have stood back and said nothing about anything and everything trump has done for years they point the fingers at others who have shown it all along. And now they act like they're the victims. The only what about here is where were you then? Nowhere to be seen, that's where. Now you're suddenly outraged.
1. I'm not outraged. I actually really don't care. Just entertaining to watch the $%^show and excuses.
2. YOU are the martyr-mode-victim every time something is posted about Biden... "Where were you when Trump blah, blah, blah?? Broken record x 559
Actually this entire thread was posted about the raid on trump. And of course you still haven't addressed "Where were you then?" Instead you try to blame me for asking the obvious. I've never played the martyr because I don't allow you and some of your cronies to make me a victim. that power you will always be denied. And you have failed at it yet again.
There have also been no excuses made for Biden by me. I've said from the very beginning that it should be investigated and let the facts take the investigation wherever it leads.
I have pointed out the differences between the two cases which you wish to label excuses because you refuse to admit some of the obvious differences.
And as anyone can plainly see, you still refuse to address any points that have been made but rather try to undermine the person asking those questions. You somehow think people can't see that.
Awe. While some people have stood back and said nothing about anything and everything trump has done for years they point the fingers at others who have shown it all along. And now they act like they're the victims. The only what about here is where were you then? Nowhere to be seen, that's where. Now you're suddenly outraged.
1. I'm not outraged. I actually really don't care. Just entertaining to watch the $%^show and excuses.
2. YOU are the martyr-mode-victim every time something is posted about Biden... "Where were you when Trump blah, blah, blah?? Broken record x 559
I'm also only here for the ships and giggles....and I lucked into another episode of Pitt and the Whatabouts!
Awe. While some people have stood back and said nothing about anything and everything trump has done for years they point the fingers at others who have shown it all along. And now they act like they're the victims. The only what about here is where were you then? Nowhere to be seen, that's where. Now you're suddenly outraged.
1. I'm not outraged. I actually really don't care. Just entertaining to watch the $%^show and excuses.
2. YOU are the martyr-mode-victim every time something is posted about Biden... "Where were you when Trump blah, blah, blah?? Broken record x 559
I'm also only here for the ships and giggles....and I lucked into another episode of Pitt and the Whatabouts!
this is a typical comment from Trumpians that lost an argument.
Typical lib TDR. Anyone that doesn't take the left side of every argument is a Trumpian. I can't stand the guy, he's an arrogant lying criminal. He needs to fry for the classified documents too. But I don't blame him for every negative thing that comes down the pike like you do.
Yep. Dems are done with him, so we set up this ingenious plot to take down Donny and Joe in the same swing. Do you ever stop to actually listen to what the hell those voices in your head are really saying?
Just saying..better that the president thinking Corn Pop did it....lol
Just a general comment regarding all of these issue with Hillary, Trump, and Biden. I have a very good friend who works as a Security Director in "Intelligence". I won't get any more specifics on exactly where but he is knee deep/hands-on investigating these matters at the moment, both with Trump and Biden. Anyways, the question was brought to him on whether or not this more commonplace than we realize and the media is blowing these issues way out of proportion based on their outlet's particular political leanings. His response was broad and not too detailed for obvious reasons. Paraphrasing: It is not common whatsoever and the behavior should never become commonplace. What we are seeing is nongovernmental individuals ascend to the upper echelon of political power w/o a strong background in government. As a result, there is a general lack of awareness to what this all means and we're seeing a lot of these political newbies being tapped into important roles in government on both sides of the aisle. So, essentially, there is no education for these people, and thus, no appreciation for regulations and rules with such sensitive information.
The bigger issue here is that of Biden who has been a career politician and this is happening. With Trump, it seems more likely this would happen although not excusable, but him being an outsider/uneducated compared to Biden's career in government is concerning from an investigation point of view.
Typical lib TDR. Anyone that doesn't take the left side of every argument is a Trumpian. I can't stand the guy, he's an arrogant lying criminal. He needs to fry for the classified documents too. But I don't blame him for every negative thing that comes down the pike like you do.
First of all, let's get something straight.. there is no official thing called TDS. It's made up by people like you.
For someone that doesn't like Trump, you sure defend him as lot
Trump and his kind ARE responsible for quite a bit of the unrest in America today. As a for instance, did he start the Proud Boys,, NO... But he made the legit. Did he start the Oath Keepers, NO but he made the legit. You see where I'm going!
Trump and his kind ARE responsible for quite a bit of the unrest in America today. As a for instance, did he start the Proud Boys,, NO... But he made the legit. Did he start the Oath Keepers, NO but he made the legit. You see where I'm going!
trump made racism fashionable in the republican party.
I'm also only here for the ships and giggles....and I lucked into another episode of Pitt and the Whatabouts!
When all you have it this kind of weak BS why do you even bother? I know you don't like it when someone actually brings facts to the table that shows the difference between the two cases, but this is elemntary school level material at best. Surely you can do better than that.
First of all, let's get something straight.. there is no official thing called TDS. It's made up by people like you.
It's just some lame azz thing made up to make it seem like it's you that has a problem when you bring up all of the myriad of things trump has done and said. You know, since you can't defend trump, blame those pointing out what he's done. It's not very creative.
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For someone that doesn't like Trump, you sure defend him as lot
That's the way it works in many cases. They claim they don't support him but are quick to dismiss what he's done, ignore what he's done, make excuse for what he's done or blame others for pointing out what he's done.
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Trump and his kind ARE responsible for quite a bit of the unrest in America today. As a for instance, did he start the Proud Boys,, NO... But he made the legit. Did he start the Oath Keepers, NO but he made the legit. You see where I'm going!
Oh they see it, it's just that they blame you for saying it.
I had no idea that appearing to wear blinders the way some on this board have conducted themselves for years now in regards to trump was considered a POV. I guess you learn something new every day if you try.
Lame and predictable. Lack of imagination. Blind follower and still blaming everyone else for your refusal to act like anything other than a blind trumpian I see. At one time I felt you were more than a mindless mockingbird that did nothing but repeat the ignorant drivel of others. You have taught me better than that. A meme from someone else and a line repeated a million times is all you have? How far the mighty have fallen.
‘Decisions are imminent’ on charges in Trump’s effort to overturn 2020 election in Georgia, Fulton County DA says
Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis suggested Tuesday that the special grand jury investigating Donald Trump and his allies’ efforts to upend the 2020 election in Georgia has recommended multiple indictments and said that her decision on whether to bring charges is “imminent.”
A hearing is underway in an Atlanta courtroom on whether to publicly release the special grand jury report. Willis opposes the release, citing her ongoing deliberations on charges.
I'm also only here for the ships and giggles....and I lucked into another episode of Pitt and the Whatabouts!
When all you have it this kind of weak BS why do you even bother? I know you don't like it when someone actually brings facts to the table that shows the difference between the two cases, but this is elemntary school level material at best. Surely you can do better than that.
You keep bringing up "the facts" and how these two cases are so different.
Here's a few you keep ignoring:
Biden was not the president; there is always more leeway given to the president, especially since he can declassify.
They are now finding documents taken during Biden's senate days. It's starting to look like he was a serial-secret-document-hoarder. He's obviously a repeat offender of the likes we've never seen in Washington.
It's not okay because he decided to give them back.
Law stipulates that when they are taken, for any reason, they have to be under the highest of security... Trump's were at Mar-a-lago (guarded by the Secret Service); Biden's were scattered all over the place, the bulk of them being guarded by his garage-door-opener.
"Elementary"? There are a lot of facts on both sides. Neither party is without blame and should be punished; but your idea that one is perfectly acceptable and the other is pure evil is pretty silly.
Wow. That story is just rife with inconsistency...
Pence’s lawyer said in his letter that the former vice president “was unaware of the existence of sensitive or classified documents at his personal residence” and “understands the high importance of protecting sensitive and classified information and stands ready and willing to cooperate fully with the National Archives and any appropriate inquiry.”
“Before we left the White House, the attorneys on my staff went through all the documents at both the White House and our offices there and at the vice president’s residence to ensure that any documents that needed to be turned over to the National Archives, including classified documents, were turned over. So we went through a very careful process in that regard,” Pence said.
He said that Pence “engaged outside counsel, with experience in handling classified documents, to review records stored in his personal home after it became public that documents with classified markings were found in President Joe Biden’s Wilmington residence.
Sooo... you didn't know you had any. How could you, really, when attorneys carefully went through all documents before you left office to make sure there was no sensitive data?
Yet... as soon you found out Bien got busted, you immediately "engaged outside counsel, with experience in handling classified documents" just to check and make sure.
You keep bringing up "the facts" and how these two cases are so different.
Here's a few you keep ignoring:
Biden was not the president; there is always more leeway given to the president, especially since he can declassify.
Yet as a former president is leaving he is no longer president. I understand what you're saying and if you think that applies to former presidents we simply disagree. While somone is president you are correct. Once they are no longer president?
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They are now finding documents taken during Biden's senate days. It's starting to look like he was a serial-secret-document-hoarder. He's obviously a repeat offender of the likes we've never seen in Washington.
Other than the fact that when one has well over 300 documents and the other has far less than 50 documents and you describe the one with less than 50 as the hoarder between the two, we agree.
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It's not okay because he decided to give them back.
It's most certainly not. Just a stark contrast between the two.
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Law stipulates that when they are taken, for any reason, they have to be under the highest of security... Trump's were at Mar-a-lago (guarded by the Secret Service); Biden's were scattered all over the place, the bulk of them being guarded by his garage-door-opener.
I don't think the amount of documents found in his garage are something that can be described as "bulk", but okay. And as far as I know the secret service was never in charge of the security of secret documents at Mia Largo. They were far too busy trying to protect trump at a resort where hundreds of people were walking around at any point in time. You know, within proximity to over 300 documents he was illegally and purposefully withholding at Mia Largo. I'm pretty sure the garage door opener wasn't dealing with those kind of crowds.
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"Elementary"? There are a lot of facts on both sides. Neither party is without blame and should be punished; but your idea that one is perfectly acceptable and the other is pure evil is pretty silly.
I've never said that nor even so much as insinuated that. One was most certainly far more egregious. But neither is right. As more has come to light Biden is looking even worse. My issue has been that there are certainly differing circumstances surrounding the two cases. Refusing to comply with a subpoena for eight months being one of them.
WTF is going on? Was there a rummage sale on classified material? Fry everyone that has them illegally in their possession. Maybe that's how we can drain the swamp.
Perhaps at this time, anyone that served in Congress over the last, eh, 15 years or so should be investigated, and every president and v.p. for the last 20 years or so as well. This is just getting stupid.
Grade school libraries have more have more protection of documents than our government.
Apparently.
I'm curious as to what the procedure is to protect these documents, and how one goes about getting them. What does an official need to do to get them, and why can't they be traced?
At this very moment, my lawyers are checking my garage, my studio and all the closets in my home. Good thing only I know about my storage unit across town
Not saying that's a bad idea but the way the law is written a lot of it has to do with intent. And that may be a little harder to prove in court.
They may not be able to be put in prison but they should have their security clearances revoked and prohibited from getting it re-instated in my preference ever but at a minimum 20 years. This effectively prohibits them from holding office for the near future. It gets complicated with Biden as he is the seating president. I would have it go into effect at the conclusion of his current term. So he cannot run for re-election.
And before anyone brings up hilary and her emails, I said the exact same thing about her ar that time. I didn't think she should be put in prison but I did feel her security clearance should be revoked and thus eliminating the possibility of her returning to office in any capacity.
Especially since politicians (even the President) dont go through background checks or have a security clearance.
I would like to see that changed. Right now, the presidents staff needs cleared, but not the president... That seems kinda dumb. Remember when Kushner coujldn't get a clearance but the president can grant it and he did.
It's just my opinion but if you work in the White House or Congress or on SCOTUS you should be cleared. Persons that can't get cleared should be considered ineligible for any federal government job...
Can't get a clearance, you can't run for office (at the federal level), or be appointed to the Cabinet or SCOTUS or Federal Judgeships or their staffs.