https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/dec/21/irs-donald-trump-tax-audit-failure

As the IRS harassed the middle class for back taxes.

I gotta admit, I'm a little confused about all of this. Maybe I have the timing messed up. But hasn't Trump been saying since before he was president that he can't release his tax returns because he was under audit?

Anyone who bothered to check would know that being under audit doesn't mean you can't release your tax returns.. He could have released them at anytime. So how is it that it now comes out that the IRS failed to review his taxes/

This is very weird.

Millions of Americans still haven't figured out that he's a habitual liar.

1. If it's under review/audit it means the numbers can change and they are not finalized.
2. Could he release them? Yes, but, it they would likely change.
3. I wouldn't be surprised if he was misleading people.
4. The IRS finally got Al Capone. I'm sure the same thing will happen to Trump. Some Fed Agency will get him because that's what the govt wants. -not saying they shouldn't.

you crack me up. Nice cover for trump without sounding like it..maybe sort of.

um? I hate Trump.

So... I'm not sure why you would think I would cover for him?

Maybe

What do people expect to find in his tax returns?
Has anyone ever done their own taxes? There is no line where you list all of your laundered money, or list the interest you've earned in offshore hidden accounts.
Lets say his companies are doing some shady stuff. Do you think that would be apparent from a tax return?
This is an obsession and one that doesn't even make sense.

Tax returns are used by creditors when trump was applying for loans. And inflating your worth with creditors is a felony. Not that that matters to the GOP faithful. Besides if the GOP needs to see Hunter Biden’s Dick pics from his laptop. It’s only fair to show us trumps tax return.

Tax Returns do not show a person's net worth or the value of their assets.
Deceiving your creditors might be a felony in some situations, but creditors are more or less responsible for their own due diligence. No reputable lender is ever going to rely on the person asking for a loan what the value of their collateral is.
The way that people are intertwining these different things makes no sense. They are only relevant to each other in the fact that they are both relevant to finance in general.

While I am sure that the media will pick at information from these tax returns and allude to the idea that something illegal has happened and we will go on with this for the next two years, at the end of the day, nothing will happen from it. Because nothing can happen from it.

That's not to say that their is nothing illegal that has happened, but if someone is cooking the books, they are not going to show it in their tax returns.

Then possibly you can explain why trump has spent years in court trying to hide his tax returns from the pubic?

The trump organization has been found guilty as charged on many felony tax fraud charges. To even elude trump did nothing illegal in his personal tax returns is naive. And trump cooking IRS officials into not doing the mandatory audits on his tax returns shows a collusion between the IRS and the WH during his administration. Another felony.

And this . Yes it does. personal tax records and corporate tax records show exactly what’s going on. Unless they lied, and entered false data.

Just Trump being Trump, move along it really should not surprise anyone…

And that’s the problemo…….Murica

He seems to like conflict and divisiveness and thinks it somehow benefits him politically.

No it absolutely does not. You may need records and receipts of your asset values if you are audited and are claiming depreciation or capital losses, but you 100% will not find information about a persons net worth or valuations for most of their assets.

Ain't y'all herd? They're done with Trump and all in on DeSantis now.

Don't disagree with you on the first part.. but tax returns do not show a person's net worth or value of assets... tax returns show income for that year and donations... but they do not in any way show a person's full net worth and assets that they hold... they'll show if someone sold any assets that year... but any assets you don't sell in that year won't be shown in your tax return

Ummm yeah, if you only look at one year …….. year after year personal and corp tax returns show the entire story. Unless someone filed false data to change the story

They can show tax fraud.. I'd have to check, but that might be a felony.. don't know for sure.

Tax returns show where you derived your income (can show where your money came from)

Tax Returns show your charitable expenses (can be checked for truth)

I think it's safe to say that because Trump fought tooth and nail to hide his taxes, he's afraid of something.

like all trumpians….afraid of ”the truth”.

No, a tax return with false data does not show tax fraud. It could be a method by which you commit tax evasion. The IRS has a number of tools by which they can determine if tax evasion is likely to have occured and they follow up using those tools with an audit, which a business or person is required to comply with. The tax audit is how tax evasion is usually caught.
The difference in this case is that Trump was not withholding his tax return from the IRS. If he was, that would have been a crime in itself. He was withholding his tax return from the public, which is not a crime. Another important distinction is that his businesses are required to comply with the IRS audit, but he is not required to a financial audit from anyone else. So, even if his tax return makes you suspicious of his operation, you don't have the right to audit him and require that he produce the records for his business transactions.

It would be extremely difficult to come up with an approximate estimate of the asset values in a company by working backwards from even 20 years of tax returns. Even internally, company balance sheets are highly speculative and companies have to write-down losses in asset values all of the time.

Year to year tax filings tell the complete story if they are filed according to tax law. And no a company balance sheet is not speculative. Unless someone is cooking the books.

So Tax evasion is illegal as well as fraud? They can put you away for either.

Anyway, why did he hide them from the American People,, Whats he afraid of?

So trump paid more foreign taxes than US taxes during his first year as prez. Also the IRS is now reeling from questioning on why trump’s tax returns didn’t get the mandated audit required by law. I smell a rat at the IRS on his knees doing trump.

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-earned-73-million-foreign-revenue-first-2-years-nyt-2020-9

President Trump earned $73 million in revenue from his interests in foreign countries during the first two years of his presidency alone, according to a New York Times review of Trump's tax returns.
Most of that income came from Trump's golf course and resort properties in Scotland and Ireland, but also from licensing deals with nations including the Philippines, Turkey, and India.
The snapshot of Trump's foreign dealings represents an unprecedented level of foreign business entanglements for a sitting US president.
The new information is likely to spur more discussion over whether he's violated the foreign and domestic emoluments clauses of the constitution.

https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF11086

The Foreign Emoluments Clause (art. I, § 9, cl. 8): “[N]o Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under [the United States], shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.”
 The Domestic Emoluments Clause (a.k.a. the Presidential Emoluments Clause) (art. II, § 1, cl. 7): “The President shall, at stated Times, receive for his Services, a Compensation which shall neither be encreased nor diminished during the Period for which he shall have been elected, and he shall not receive within that Period any other Emolument from the United States, or any of them.”

It sounds like he may have been making more money from foreign businesses he may have not been qualified to make in order to gain influence. Somebody grab his laptop!

How could they not be auditing him. It was his mantra about not releasing his returns! Amazing

His special handlers working inside with the IRS told him to say that. They never intended to audit him. And all we hear from the right wingnuts is this is a slippery slope and just wait until the shoe is on the other foot. Lol… every President since Nixon has publicized their tax returns cept 1. GOPers and their lame threats pfft. You Gopers want to make America great again? Try getting our USA tax dollars back from trump and other millionaires and billionaires that steel from us every year.

Just seeing the news this morning, apparently Trump didn't donate his entire salary as President to charity as he pledged to do. Couple that with he seems to have liked about a bank account in China...

I guess his net worth isn't the only thing in question around here.

Yes, where you fill out the amount of your charitable contributions there was nothing entered. Zero. For those still defending this habitual liar I feel sorry for them. Next thing you know they'll own ocean front property in Arizona. And from the looks of things, Santos in New York learned everything he knows from trump.

What's funny., all of us who oppose Trump are finally getting our due. Just about everything we all warned about is coming out in the open. And yet, they still believe him when he flat out lies to them.

And they still don't care. His assertion he could shoot someone on Fifth Ave. and still not lose and votes sounds much more plausible now than when he said it.

Makes you think that the Right is only interested in themselves.

The really sad thing is, if you look at the issues like Abortion, the majority of America is in favor of what we had before the SCOTUS decided to throw a Monkey in the wrench...

But no,, they don't seem to get it.

Your reasoning seems right but still, he had no reason to withhold his tax returns. Especially it's a rule that Presidents MUST get a review anyway. So it really doesn't matter if they need adjusted. NOT even a little bit.

He's a thief/crook/liar.. Get used to it.

We get it.

Most people think of themself. I remember not many years ago you were claiming to be a republican but you wanted health insurance....clearly you looking out for you.

I have healthcare but want all Americans to have healthcare. So what does that mean? Let me guess. That means I'm a communist?

With all this stuff happening, I think there needs to be a provision to audit all congress members immediately, all and any lobbying, donations, for the past 50 years. That's where the real meat is and I want it!!!!!! Personally I think 3/4 of congress should be in jail by tomorrow.

I have a lot of demands. I want a congressional budget audit, balanced budget proposal, and ENTIRE audit of the federal reserve. Why haven't all of the above been done yet?

Sadly lobbying is legal. The people that get the rewards set the rules and it shows. It's nothing more than legalized bribery.

Wait, is there something wrong or illegal about wanting health insurance?

Let me make sure I got this right. The Republican Party is all about personal responsibility. So me wanting to make sure I was covered and willing to pay for it with my own hard earned money makes me a bad guy or a lefty..,

For the record, I was a registered republican since the late 70's. But I've always be a guy that voted for a candidate regardless of party if I thought they were the best choice. For instance, I voted for Carter. Then Reagan, then Bush, then Clinton, then Bush then Obama, then Clinton, then Biden. Of course, I was already a registered Democrat by the time I voted for Hillary.

Honestly, it is out of place to put people down like you just tried with me. Especially when you support a criminal like Trump....

"Let me make sure I got this right. The Republican Party is all about personal responsibility. So me wanting to make sure I was covered and willing to pay for it with my own hard earned money makes me a bad guy or a lefty..,"

You can do as you see fit with your money. Willing to pay for it WITH YOUR OWN money. That's a key phrase.

Hey Arch, not being snarky here, but you do realize virtually every other first world industrialized Nation on the planet has Universal/ government Healthcare. It's a right of all those citizens, and not like in the US where people say people are covered they just need to go to the emergency room. And all those industrialized first world Nations there have conservatives, voters and politicians , all of which (most of which) still advocate for healthcare as a right.

Yes, I do realize that. I also realize many other things. 1 of which is how much businesses pay for insurance for employees. It might blow your mind.

I also realize that taxes would go up a lot, and businesses would not compensate employees for NOT paying for their insurance.

I also know that in the small European countries mass transit is supposedly great. That doesn't translate to mass transit being practical in the U.S., not to the level of countries that are the size of Ohio.

Not really up on Mass Transit... so I'll stay away.

But, as for insurance, I'm over 65.,. I receive Social Security., not as my sole source of income but more of a supplement to my other income. I could not survive on SS alone. But keep in mind, I spent 50+ years working and I paid for my SS over years.

As for Medicare, I paid for that over the years as well. In addition, I pay for it out of my SS income each and every month. I also PAY for my supplemental plan each month. My total cost per month for Health insurance coverage is over $300 per month.

Nothing is free.. I never asked for it to be free. But I can tell you for sure, having been on both sides of the fence (pre and post retirement) Medicare coupled with a solid Supplement Plan is the best health insurance I've ever had... EVER.

I wanted Medicare for all back when Obama and the Dems brought in the ACA.. I thought they made it too complicated and wasted millions of dollars and too damn much time and energy on that hot mess.

What gets lost many time is that I'd have been VERY willing to pay much more for Medicare coupled with a Supplemental plan.

So, I'd have paid for the plan... But we need to address this going forward. There is always a way if you take the time to think it through.

It's a simple idea. You either support big pharma and the health insurance companies or you think healthcare is a human right. Almost every industrialized nation in the world considers healthcare a human right but in America we value big business over our own people.

Mass transit on a national scale is a logistical issue that has absolutely nothing to do with healthcare.

[quote=PerfectSpiral]The trump organization has been found guilty as charged on many felony tax fraud charges. To even elude trump did nothing illegal in his personal tax returns is naive. And trump cooking IRS officials into not doing the mandatory audits on his tax returns shows a collusion between the IRS and the WH during his administration. Another felony.

And they still don't care.

yup.

It's not like they haven't been told by every corner of Reality for 7-10 years.

Mass transit works where it works and is based on population density, distances between large populations who need/want to travel and social/community mindset. It's not a one size fits all.

Regarding healthcare - the UK (as an example) spends less than 1/2 what the US does per capita. If you analyze ANY medical procedure in the USA the cost is far higher than the same procedure in other first world / industrialized countries. Same thing goes for the cost of prescriptions and medications (costs are much different - I don't know if its the same ratio). On the one hand you have a for profit system with every link in the chain getting fat and happy - on the other hand you have the inefficiency of big government. While I'll never dispute that government run "anything" is never efficient - in this case the inefficiency is better than the fat that is skimmed off by the for profit companies providing our "healthcare".

AND - here's the thing, personally I want a doctor to make the decisions regarding my healthcare. And I speak from personal and recent experience, when my Dr says I need a procedure or test, I know they are doing that for the best interest of my health. When the insurance company wants to deny or create it difficult to receive the recommendations my Dr has recommended, it is for financial reasons and they could care less about my health. The flip side is I feel like sometimes a clinic will recommend a series of tests - not so much because I need it but because they can charge for it and they know the insurance company will say yes.

Bottom line is we pay WAY too much for healthcare in this country. Individuals and employees alike. It's utter madness that the number 1 reason for personal bankruptcy is health care costs.

This is from 2018 - but some interesting info:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42950587

Instead we'll go bankrupt from the taxes to pay for government run healthcare. You'll never convince me that a country that is 31 trillion in debt is going to suddenly learn how to reduce costs.

You'll have that when you perpetuate a corrupt government controlled by corporations and the financial elite.

I know that transit has nothing to do with health insurance.. I was responding to Arch. Not sure why he added that in.... whatever.

The good thing about the ACA was that 10 years ago, I was 60 and because of my health, I was almost uninsurable. Rates for me to get insurance were nutty.. But the ACA made it so I could get insurance at Reasonable rates... It wasn't great, but I was at least able to get it.

Now, if you listen to republicans like Mitch McConnell and many house members, they want to get rid of or scale back medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. The reason they give is it's running out of money. The fail to tell you that during the Reagan Admin, they borrowed 2 Trillion from Social Security.

The answer isn't to cut it, the RIGHT answer is to FUND it properly.. Step one is for the Republican party to find a way to return the money they borrowed from it..

The other right answer is to cancel the ACA and move towards Medicare for all. Sure, you gotta charge Americans for it. Much more than I'm paying anyway. They are already paying for ACA insurance so what's the difference. It's better insurance than they can buy on the open market when coupled with a supplemental plan.

If you think about why we haven't done that, look no further than big insurance.

JMHO, you-others, talk about industrial nations having universal medical systems- you're comparing apples with oranges. NO, repeat, No country the size and with numbers USA has can sustain nearly free medical care- and/or the timeliness of that care. Citizens of UK wait months for a simple CAT scan. other simple stuff most of us get in moments. Human health care has become so specialized- a doctor for every single ailment. Years ago, Clinton broached the idea of death panels- who gets what- an example- does it make sense for a country to pay for a knee replacement for 81 year old, who dies six months later.....how many million examples of that does Medicare pay for....who says every American should pay little or nothing for cataract surgery- both eyes- essentially free.....over 100 years ago, the Plain Indians had simple health care system....old, can't keep up....to over to bush and die....we all are going to be dust again.

We got huge problems, I'd suggest, those with the means, should pay a LOT MORE for every hip, shoulder, eye, tooth...on and on than the person who can't.....as a Christian nation, should not the haves give more than the have nots....ps, Trump making 20 million and paying no taxes....how's that fair/ me a retiree paid more than he....WOW. Ain't America great. We need to cap medical care somehow or our grandkids will suffer mightily
.

It's not free and isn't free to them wither. It's just far cheaper per person. Everything from prescription costs to the costs of procedures. You see when one entity negotiating prices for an entire country they have a lot of power to drive down costs through negotiations. The fact that America has so many people actually gives them more power to negotiate than smaller nations. Not less.

I used to work for a UK employer. One of the big selling points to my UK coworkers was the company offered private health insurance so people didn't need to deal with the National health care.

I'm on a form of national healthcare and I love it. Statements like yours don't seem to reflect fact as it pertains to me anyway.

Yep for a price for those who can afford it. Private health insurance has its premiums that must be paid. And don’t tell me your company paid 100% of those premiums.

I don't know of anyone that is pushing for FREE national healthcare. That would likely be impossible to sustain.

Those of us on Medicare PAY for that insurance. In fact, I've been paying into it for years. I also pay for a supplemental plan.., It's terrific. Best I've ever had in my entire life.

Why the British love the National Health Service

According to the Commonwealth Fund’s recent survey, 63 percent of those from the U.K. said the NHS worked well.

In contrast, only 25 percent of those from the U.S. said the same about their health system.

https://theconversation.com/why-the-british-love-the-national-health-service-66314

WHY WE LOVE OUR NHS

https://publishing.rcseng.ac.uk/doi/pdf/10.1308/147363513X13690603820586

We do already have a national healthcare system called medicare. If you desire better coverage you can purchase supplemental insurance to cover even more at a very affordable price. Anecdotal evidence does not describe the big picture as it pertains to the Brits.

I didn't get health care through the UK office so I don't know what was paid. I know that people I talked to were happy to have it and not have to deal with the National health care.

Private healthcare is STILL available to those that want to pay for it in the UK. What a great concept - you can choose and have the RIGHT to 'free healthcare' (paid by all out of their tax) or you can choose to pay for private care which has the benefit of shorter wait times. Some companies offer private coverage as a perk - a bit like providing a company car.

But there is a world of difference - a galaxy of difference - between the lucky ones receiving subsidized or free private health care as a perk for their job and asking the Nation if they want to pay double the cost on all healthcare and prescriptions and move to a ONLY for profit healthcare system as we have in the USA.

The argument that I occasionally see from people who don't live in the RoTW where there is free nationalized healthcare - that they know someone who lives in such and such a country and they complain about the wait times or they prefer their private coverage is anecdotal and in the grand scheme of things meaningless. 77%+ of the population in the UK believes the NHS is a vital part of their society. Find me any movement or issue in the US with that much support!

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/what-does-public-think-about-nhs

They pay for that Healthcare with a 20% VAT tax (national sales tax) How well do you think that would go over here

Oh, it wouldn't go over at all because the uneducated rule here.

The rich hate paying taxes wherever they live. Usually that doesn’t stop them from buying what they want and paying for it including taxes. Everyone else can have their measly NHC.

That's not actually how it works. But yes, tax dollars pay for the NHS. VAT is one form of tax much like a national sales tax. It's already baked into the cost of goods when you see a price at the store and many essentials like food are exempt. There is a National health contribution deduct from paychecks but capped. Then we have all the other forms of tax, like income and inheritance tax.... What we don't have is a 15% premium from our paycheck for health insurance to a private company that will then try to deny claims if it can get away with it.

Simple question, If the USA pays twice as much per capita on Healthcare costs than they do in the UK, do you think it matters whether it's a tax or an invoice from a private company or a deductible from paycheck that isn't a tax??

Actually the issue here is to deflect ..yes deflect, that the IRS was bribed into not auditing trumps taxes. Has nothing to do with healthcare costs.

Isn't it funny how that works LOL

Funny sad.

Wait are you saying when trump said he couldnt release his taxes because he was being audited. That he wasnt being audited? So why didnt he release his taxes? I guess he didnt know he wasnt being audited, because he would never lie. Im sooo c onfused

One has nothing to do with another. It's possible to discuss both, separately.

Maybe.

How'd health care discussion get on Trump's IRS returns not being completed as per current law. Strange. But normal.


Trump always lies, delays, deflects, fake news, blame it on someone else- standard Trump. Plus, never forget, he hires, says they are greatest, then throws them under the bus quickly. Or, as President, he pardoned as many sleazebags as possible- Stone, Flynn, etc.- all great Americans, except they don't support the Constitution- just like the former President who attempted to steal the election.

Got to love a guy who supported the folks screaming and searching for Pence.....Hang Pence....great folks.

And yet the trump apologists continue to give him a free pass on his deplorable behavior. All is good in trumpville.