I was wrong on Hogan vs Kizer. Kizer needs to sit and Hogan looks decent.

Hue is actively hurting the team with mismanagement.

With any other coach, we could have 3 wins by now. Hue needs to go!!! Like last year!!!!

It was almost like Hue was trying to make Hogan look bad. 3-15 ALL GO... Go for it on fourth and 2+ instead of the FG?

I not sure Hogan is long time answer but if he started all year we would have at least 3 wins

Hue made an irrational decision, and it (possibly) cost his team the game.

This game was winnable.

Once again I say keep Hue and force him to get an OC.

Don't even care about or want to talk about Hue Jackson. From this half game I watched I take away that the Kizer era MUST be temporarily put on hold.
Hogan hasn't had alot of time to develop himself and at this point I see more promise in him than Kizer.

There is not one reason to keep Hue.

You could say the front office cost us this game as well with the two missed field goals. I can promise u Hue didn't make the decision to cut Cody and keep the rookie. ( for less money )

We can't do that! Hue has an ego that is a cancer to this team!!!

You are right, but it is a lot easier to fire one guy for the team's performance.

Line right up,quick snap count,draw penalty,or run outside.Not going anywhere anyhow.The time out ruined the play and gave the defense time to tegroup.

And u can now see why teams CAN'T win without a real QB.. We could have 5 Myles Garretts and it would make ZERO difference. The QB has the ball HALF the game and Myles had about 10 snaps before he was hobbling around.

Postgame thoughts?

I'm not bothering next Sunday.

We also can’t blow this team up again after 2 years. Who TF is going to come coach this team in the state that it’s in right now?!? Sorry to [censored] on your pity party but the FO and the coaching staff is married to each other for at least 2-3 more years or Haslam might as well just sell the team.

dunno what to even say anymore.

Ain't that right. Snake bit? Bad luck? Cursed? Ineptitude? Sabotaged?

You can hardly wrap your mind around it...

All we need to fix this is to draft a kicker #1 overall next year...

I saw Hogan is better than Kizer at least at this point, Our D should kick our O's butt, and Garrett is the real deal!!!

I say this with every coach we hire that also wants to be the OC. I hate it. The HC needs to focus on the overall game strategy. Trying to call plays, make sure the right players are in, clock management, replay decision etc. It's just too much for one person. If you want to be the one that call the plays then hire someone to do those other duties.

Agreed

I would think that Hue would be involved in all player movement plus I doubt that Parkey was cut due to money considering that he and Gonzalez were set to make almost the same amount. Parkey's contract yearly avg. is $645,000 Gonzalez's is $622,289

I liked the way the team played except for Kizer and the Kicker.
And the play calling.

Everybody else did fine.

D looked good for most of the game.

I dont want to see Kizer again this year.
I like him, but he is broken.
Sit him, and let him learn.
Hogan gives us a better chance, at this point.

Is Jackson fired yet?

I just watched the rest of the game. Great TD run by Duke towards the end!

We might have very well won this game if Kizer hadn't started. I don't know if Hogan is the answer or this isn't just the Kelly Holcomb effect, but Hogan is a better QB than Kizer. Period.

I think Duke Johnson could be our Darren Sproles. He is our only weapon on offense.

Well I'm at least happy that others are starting to see that Hogan > Kizer... I've been saying it since preseason.

Another week. Another Loss.

- Garrett looked great getting to the QB. Unfortunately, he looked like he was hobbling later in the game.

- Peppers was finally playing more in the box.

- Njoku made some tremendous catches

- Ogbah and McCourty had nice games.

- Ogunjobi had a nice game.

- Kasen Wiliams with good effort all day.

- Zane Gonzalez. Oof.

- Duke Johnson makes things happen.

- Tough day for Hue.

- At this point, our QBs leave a lot to be desired.

- 11 more of these damn games to go.

Involved ? Yea, I'm sure he says who he wants then the Front office tells him who he gets. Like with with Hayden.. GMAFB

And there's NO shame in it if it's so! The biggest travesty would be exiting this season NOT knowing if either one or the other is the answer. Even if we see nothing from both we have our clear cut path.

This crap must be resolved.

The ONLY way its resolved is if one of us hits the MegaMillions for a billion dollars and buys the team to make OUR picks.:)

As much as I like DK he's not ready. I was against starting him this year and said as much. He's regressed and I hope his confidence isn't shot. We could easily have 2 wins right now. This game should have been a win. Right now KH gives us our best chance to win so let him play. I've been frustrated with this team over the years but none worse than right now.

our defense was very good IMO until they ran out of gas

our offense is the worst I've seen in a long time

Kizer isn't ready, nor is he the answer

Garrett needs to be shut down again

Hue Jackson said if he thought it would give team better chance to win, he would let someone else call plays. Points to execution

https://twitter.com/NateUlrichABJ/status/917124116846702593

I am OK with that. Change the routes and combinations. Hue can't seem rational in the Red Zone. Throw the middle. Repeat plays that work. Stop the stretch crap. He said he felt we "were knocking them off the ball." Hence the inside run on 4th and goal. Fail. Badly!

His judgment stinks. No middle routes. Calls get laughable in Red Zone. Kizer doesn't get it. OC here would help. Hogan brought much more pressure to bear than Kizer. I would like to start Kizer. He is just a liability and a turnover machine.

Physical freaks usually have a chink in their armor. Garrett looks to be his base. College and so far pros showing it's his Ankles and feet. That's bad and I hope I'm wrong.

This team is garbage.

Hue Jackson admitted he was egged on by defensive players to eschew FG and go for lead on ill-fated fourth-down play.

https://twitter.com/TonyGrossi/status/917136503737856000

Zane is hated on by the entire team and rightfully so. If he's not replaced by next game, wow.

My post game thoughts are simple:

1. A picture of Hue Jackson needs to be put in the dictionary to describe "QB Career Killer" he has pretty much ruined Deshone Kizer...i'll be very suprised if Kizer ever recovers now....Kizer is 21 year old starting his 4 ever NFL game and our idiot of a coach benches him...THIS is why i wanted the Browns to keep Osweiler. Rookie Qb are going to makes mistakes, thats what they do! Once you go with the rookie you CANT turn back under any circumstances...Jackson is a fool and he is ruining Kizer's career....

2. Our Front Office is a joke...all those draft picks and the only playmaking talent they have to show for it is Garret....Garrett is like the only guy that they have drafted in two years that would start elsewhere...god does this FO suck.

I have seen enough...i was firmly in Jackson's corner until today when he benched his rookie QB in a 3-0 game at half time...guy is clueless...he needs to be fired with the rest of our front office at the end of the year.

this is the WORST Browns roster in history...there isn't a winnable game on the schedule now...they will go 0-16...i'lll predict it...i don't give a damn....there isn't a winnable game on the rest of the schedule...they will get crushed from here on out.

Time to get a new coach and a new front office, we are going no where with these people...these people are worse then Savage, Worse then Romeo, Worst then Chris Palmer FFS...even Palmer won more then a game LOL!!!!!!

this is just pathetic...

I'm pretty sure that gutting the team set us back YEARS. We are worse than an expansion team. I doubt we win any games in the next 2-3 years.

And you know he wasn't involved in the Haden decision how?

General thought: ^ I agree.

General thought:

If you think I don't want to fire this coach?
I think they do need to fire this coach!

Chris Tabor interim HC? ---Sure why not!

At this point! I'm so Flippin outraged! I'm giddy!

I'm waiting for all the pro-Sashi rah rah crew to show up and defend the front office so far

Me! Do you think Chris Tabor wouldn't give you just as much chance to win the next two games vs Houston and Tennessee, as Hue Jackson is going to give you???

Do you??

Too many posters on this board put way too much emphasis on winning.

Relax and enjoy the game.

October weather is beautiful. Let other team fans worry about winning.

There's more important things to worry about than playing football for a few million dollars.



Winning is for losers.

The Browns are true winners.

--The FO drafted a FG kicker. That was dumb to waste a draft pick on a kicker. Parkey is a good kicker.

--They then engineered a sham competition.

--I thought Parkey won the competition. The FO predictably backed the guy they drafted.

--Hue always does a few things every game that just hurt the team. The play call to run an option to Crow. Even if they had converted I would of said it wasn't a good call. Turns out to be a turnover because of poor execution.

--Timeout with 44 seconds left in the first half, just outside the redzone, two timeouts in your pocket, you can pretty much control whatever you want. The interception was brutal. But Hue left enough time on the clock for the Jets to get the normal Browns opponent touchdown before the half. A tradition unlike any other.

--I thought, other than the option call, Hue called a good first half. As soon as he felt Hogan could run his pass heavy offense, he completely abandoned the run in the second half. I guess it was working too good.

--Hue needs to build moral with this team. Tying the score at 10-10 and giving everyone the feeling they had a chance would have been huge. I, therefore, fully expected Hue to go for it.

--Carson Wentz is going to be a star. He was not good enough to play in Cleveland. They believe in quantity over quality. But in the NFL, quality at the QB position trumps quantity because the QB raises the level of everyone's play. You don't need a thousand first round picks. This team is treading water. You cannot start a rebuild until you have a QB. All they had to do was turn in the cards on Wentz and Watson. But they thought they were smarter than everyone else. Quantity over quality. The Browns are the only team in the NFL that look a gift horse in the mouth and turn their nose up.

--Weren't the Browns supposed to be 3-0 over this stretch?

Said LAST YEAR!

Get a different HC and maybe things turn out.

Hue Jackson has had 7 quarterbacks
RG3
Josh McCown
Charlie Whitehurst
Cody Kessler

Deshone Kizer
Brock Osweiler
Kevin Hogan

7 quarterbacks, and, today, Got to feel good for Josh McCown, 3 wins in a row for the first time in his career.

Except he played for the OTHER TEAM!

We would have won if we had a kicker that could make a 39 yard FG...39 yards!!!!!!!

He needs replaced right away. I don't even care who, but I have more faith in just about anyone than Zane.

Man, least we didn't burn a 2nd rounder on him.

Our FO will do that next year lol

Dang, if you want him replaced because he missed a 39 yard FG we might as well not even have a Kicker cause they all miss once in a while.

IMO our defense looked good today until we got a little gassed ... sadly, our offense looked bad today from the coin toss

Parkey has very limited range as a field goal kicker. Zane is a rookie and cleveland stadium takes a bit to get used to for kickers so don't over act. We lost today because Kizer started and because Hue went for it on fourth down twice instead of taking very easy field goals. Those 6 points would have won the game.

That being said, you know Hue was going for it to show the offense he had faith in them and is trying to build up an aggressive attitude. You could tell he was pi$$ed that plays were not being executed well.

Lets just hope Hogan is starting next week. Kizer needs to earn his job instead of having it handed to him again.

Would have been nice if we signed Micah Hyde to be our FS this off-season...guy has been everything Buffalo wanted. Heck Jordan Poyer has been playing very well for them as well.

Uhh, have you been paying attention? He's been missing them dude.

How do we know.

This game was not as close as the 17-14 score

With 3 minutes to go in the 4th quarter; The Jet's team know's there is no 10 point play in football

The Jet's were up 17-7 with 3 minutes or less to go.
They probably didn't play very hard on defense as if the game had been closer.

They didn't care that Duke Johnson scored on that play, Because after the onside kick failed, all they had to do was take a knee.

Parkey has already made a 54 yard FG this year.

In his career Parkey has never missed a FG over 50 yards. He is 6 for 6.

Link

we left 20 1st half points on the field 20

Well parkey has better range than Gonzales. He’s 5/5 this year with a long of 54

Tabor isn't worth a flip. Gregg can be interim coach until we lure Matt Nagy away from the KC Chiefs!!

He's missed 3 FGs from 39 yds, 48 yds and 52 yds. He's also made 2 and he's a rookie Kicker, give the guy a chance. Heck all you guys saying we should have kept Parkey seem to forget that he missed 3 in one game for us last year. Every kicker misses once in a while and Cleveland stadium takes a bit to get used to the wind currents.

OR we could have found an average kicker on someones practice squad, and they would be better than either.

He's also 12 for 20 lifetime between 40-49 yds.

Hue should be fired just because he didn't go for the tie ... Bad decision that cost us the game ... JMHO

But he battles.

Enough of the nonsense. Explain why we get so stupid in the red zone. Why is Kizer locking on the first read and waiting so long? I am just not sure he is viable yet. This is blind game planning IMO. This should have been ours!

Hue should have kicked the field goal to tie the game in the fourth quarter. I get the aggressiveness, but even if we had converted on fourth down it wasn't a smart call.

Kizer is not ready yet. It is obvious that he needs to sit for awhile. Hogan has to play next week.

MG with two sacks but it looked like his ankle wasn't 100 per cent.
Crowell ran hard.
We got inside the 10 and got no points. Three times we did that. Unacceptable.
Overall, we took a tiny step forward today.

I wouldn't fire Hue. If The owner and FO deem any change is necessary and I'm not saying they do, they should ask Hue to hire an O coordinator. That might help take the pressure off. I think being HC and OC is too much for anyone and we need as much hands on with our O as anyone. JMO

having the ball inside the 10 that many times and never scoring is pitiful ... I mean, we would have been better off kneeling and taking the 9 points

That is something that should be done immediately if he stays ...

Went down to the Factory with my Dad for our first game since 9/8/2013 ! We used to make sure to get to at least one game a year but sat the last 3 seasons out due to the bad football. This year we decided to go back and bought tickets a few weeks ago while there was still some hope and the losses started to rack up haha.

1) Was great to see Myles Garrett get a sack on that first drive and then another sack later in the game. We were sitting in row 8 of section 134 which isn’t too far away from the browns bench and I couldn’t help but notice that Garrett was on the sideline for a lot of snaps. Are they trying to ease him in? I wonder if his presence would have been game changing in some of the other games. Could we have beat the Steelers?

2) Defense was playing good today. I was pleased. They really shut down the Jets for a significant amount of time. After a certain amount of offensive and special teams blunders the defense seemed to let up a bit. I wasn’t surprised. Nonetheless I thought they had a good day. Had the offense and special teams not been totally inept the Jets would have put up far fewer points. How much better would they have been with Collins out there?

3) Field Goal kicking was painful. Missing 2 in a row is really unacceptable in the NFL. We didn’t lose a playoff game because of him so I have a feeling he will still be with the team. Plus the Browns drafted him. But even though they drafted him they didn’t take him with a high pick. 7th round. 224th pick in the draft. He wasn’t even the first kicker taken in the draft. He hit several 50 yarders in college and a very good college kicker. I don’t know what the problem is but he will have to fix it quick I think...

4) Watching Hue Jackson blow second half timeouts is extremely frustrating. They always end up needing them at the end of the game and then they don’t have them.

5) Going for the TD instead of the FG was rough. The thing that was weird was it really seemed like the crowd really wanted the Browns to go for it and then suddenly the Browns took a timeout and then they changed and actually did try to go for it. I thought “they didn’t just go for it because the crowd wanted it did they??” At least that was my perspective from where I was sitting. The thing that really aggravated me on this was why didn’t they just try and run the ball when it was 3rd and 4?

6) Kizer’s redzone turnovers were a killer. I like Kizer I think he has a lot of potential and tools and he is young. Good arm and can be quite accurate. Has been given a horrible WR group to work with and the WR group has also had a lot of movement with roster changes and injuries. But he has to be more careful with the football in the redzone. That pitch play was terrible. I don’t really know if I agree with benching him. What does that mean for going forward? Does it destroy his confidence? He already had to deal with that sort of stuff in college. Who knows how this will play out.

7) This team isn’t really going to win much this year. Maybe a game or two. They obviously need time to gel and grow. Nothing is going to change drastically over the next couple weeks. Playing 1 more hour of pro football and a few more days of practice isn’t going to result in massive changes between now and next week so I’m not expecting to see it. Maybe a little bit.

8) I hope the things they continue to patch things like stupid useless penalties. Try and fix mental mistakes (including coaching staff). The Browns have a lot of assets available next year so I hope they use them wisely so we have something decent to watch then. Until next year this team will be garbage and I expect nothing else.

Has there ever been an instance in the NFL where the coach/playcaller was relieved of his play calling duties by an Offensive Coordinator mid-season?

Was that part of Hue's being hired here that he calls the offensive plays? I doubt Hue's ego would allow him to have is play calling duties taken from him.

Thanks for the bird's eye view. .

What were your thoughts on Hogan?

Hue shoulda kicked the fg. When you can tie a game early in the fourth quarter - especially when your defence has been solid all day, and when you have a young team trying to learn how to win - you take the easy 3.

Agreed. The chip shot should have been kicked and we’d have tied the game and saved a TO. We ended up missing out on both. I think Hue is in over his head with responsibility. He needs to off-load to an OC and as far as him being a QB guru, he’s sold us Kessler and Kizer and I’m beginning to believe he’s Kooky.

OK,
I will be the Hue fan to a point. Yes, he made some mistakes in his play calling. It seems like every game, he has a play or two that make you yell at the TV. Going for it was a good call. But the play he called makes you scratch your head. That should have been a play action on that call.

Also, For all the Kizer haters. HE IS A ROOKIE. They make mistakes. Remember, Aikman & Manning had terrible first years. Is it painful watching him, YES. Does Hogan get the ball out quicker or reads his progression quicker.. YES. But if you want the kid to learn, you either play him now or you sit him for the whole season. The Rams had the SAME problem last year but look at Geoff now!

This was a winnable game no doubt and Hue/Kizer should be grilled.

Kizer haters? Do you really believe that anyone is hating on Kizer or is it more that people don’t feel he’s ready to be out there and Hogan is the one who gives us our best chance to win? He can be our QB one day, but that day isn’t today.

I like Kizer. I see a lot of potential in him.

But he is broken. On the way to ruined.
Whatever promise he showed in the preseason is evaporated.

He has gone down hill.

He is playing panicked.

Let me say that again.

He is playing panicked.

He needs to sit and take a breather.

And watch some film. And get some coaching. And practice.

Hogan was leap years ahead of him today.

Please let Kizer sit and mature.

He will be back. But not yet. If they have any sense.

Hogan was able to make plays. He seemed more effective than Kizer. He is able to run and scramble better than Kizer. Maybe he just has better awareness. Kizer definitely is able to put more zip on the ball. Hogan can throw the ball down the field but not as fast as Kizer. But Hogan’s throws seemed easier for the receivers to catch — possibly because of the slower speed. But honestly I may not know what I’m talking about I am not a pro I am just a fan and that was my observation. The Jets obviously didn’t prepare for Hogan. But also Hogan didn’t have much time to prepare with the first team offense. The Team was able to move the ball with Kizer today ... he just had those horrible turnovers. Hogan’s interception seemed like a bit of a high throw but seemed like the WR could have caught it.

We get it, sweety

My tablet went crazy lol

A 2nd rounder didn't even last through preseason, so it goes to show you position and how it must produce. Rookie or not.

It's just my opinion, but he don't belong kicking here anymore. His confidence is rattled it seems.

Tulsa,
Again, that is why alot of rookies sit for awhile. We put him in to learn on the job. Is it painful, yes. But like I said in my example, Aikman and Manning made alot of the same mistakes.

Also, we forget that Hogan has been around for 2 years and he looks better than a rookie. ( as he should). There is that old adage that you let a rookie learn on the job and it is painful.

Eve,
Then was Manning and Aikman ruined?? Look up their first years. If you look at the game, he made some throws were you see the kids potential. Then he will do something that will have you cussing at the TV.

We don't give him a consistent running game, and receivers that would be backups all over the league. SO yes, it does not look good but if we sit him, do you keep in on the bench the rest of the season?? That might ruin him more.

He is broken. All his poise is gone and he seems to have no clue what he doing.

I previously blamed the WR.

But put Hogan in, and he throws to the WR just fine.

Its Kizer.

He needs to be coached up. That wont happen in a week.

You play to win the game.

So for now that means Hogan.

I thought Njoku looked good.

I thought our wr’s Williams and Treggs looked good, give them both more practice time to learn the offense better and they might be good.

Duke needs more touches, he just makes plays.

Eve,
He is not broken! Then is Goeff broken?? He looked just as bad last year. Another year and some coaching does wonders. And again, there have been QBs that had terrible first years that went on to have decent careers. Once you put the kid in, unless he looses his confidence, then you should ride it out.

Now me, I believe in sitting rookie QBs or atleast not starting them until after games.

Kizer is not ready to start.

Njoku, is going to be a star.

They better sign a kicker this week, if not already.

Should have kicked the field goal and tied the game. Momentum was with us at that point. After they fell short, the defense gave up two huge plays, the momentum was lost.

The offense changed radically when Hogan came in. The routes were shorter and quicker, and it seemed that he can run the offense better and the offense was opened up somewhat more.

When Kizer was in the routes were noticeably longer, and many time all to the same side of the field. When Hogan was in, it was vastly different.

This game was lost on two INTs in the redzone, and a fumble, and topped off with two missed field goals. Kicker and QB get my blame.

Being at the game let me see things that I've been missing watching on TV.

I would ask.

How many reps did Hogan get with the 1's?

Last year or this year.

Kizer had those reps with the 1's. Preseason, training camp, an OTA's.

Yet Hogan keeps stepping in an scoring.

dawgpound1,
Kizer probably gets the majority of the reps. No Doubt. But like Hogan said in his presser today, the game is slowing down for him because of being in the system last year.

Now if we looked at preseason, who stood out? Kizer. Yes, Kizer is having typical rookie problems but once you put him in, then we ride it out for awhile. Now if he keeps having problems like the first half, then the switch will have to be made.

The team needs to win, above all. Hogan would seem to give them the better opportunity to do so. Hogan should be the starter.

I think the biggest reason the team seems to "click" more when he is in is his comfort level when playing from under center. He played in a pro-style offense at Stanford, and it shows.

Another example of why Hue is questionable. Kick the field goal to tie it up. But no, listen to a bunch of drunk fans, waste a time out, change your mind and blow it. The guy sucks. 1-20 as our coach. I could do better than that.

Oh....Hogan is way better than Kizer. Kizer sucks.

Peen,
Hogan in system 2 years, Kizer Rookie. I'm looking at the KC/Hou game and we are not beating Hou. But look at Hou, they have a running game, good receivers and Oline that has been improving. The Browns don't have any of that.

Yes, Hue needs someone to throttle/watch his play calling but we need those 3 elements mentioned above.

Perhaps the Browns best kicker of all-time Phil Dawson only made 8 of 12 FGs his first year with us, including missing twice from 38 yards. Yet he turned out pretty good.

Stop it with the facts. Now is the time to be emotional and make rash decisions.

Winning is overrated. We need to keep playing our worst players so they improve.

Were they in a row? He's on a streak of missing one even cutting some slack on the long 50 yarder, which was way off from the start of it.

Zane sucks, comparing him to Phil is foolish IMO.

GC.

My post game thought is: As long as Hue Jackson is the Head coach, the Browns will not win a single game.

Why is it foolish, people wanted us to get rid of Phil after his first year.

JC...

Speaking of field goals...Phil Dawson has missed a few easy ones this year, one again today..

Zane Gonzalez- a ton of people on this forum loved him and was mocking him in rounds 5 and 6 to us (some even late 4th round)...So I assumed it was a great pick up

As you know with kickers its all between the ears...Heck remember Blair Walsh...He is doing great in Seattle after his blunder in Minny...

Hoping Zane recovers and gets us some wins with that leg...hopefully

But then you know what you have. A long string of losses clarifies many things. Then you know for sure what you have, namely a string of losses, a bad choice supported by bad choices and a bad situation made worse by demanding "to see what you have" and ignoring anything to the contrary.

The Plan! . . .Again!

yeah, let's hope Zane straightens it out, but early returns aren't great. it'll be interesting to see if we bring in someone else this week.

I'm in Cali and didn't see the first half of the game.

was it windy? swirling winds? and he is not used to it yet?

or is he just missing in nice calm weather?

couldn't tell from the choppy stream I was watching on.

passing---sorted by average yards per comp.

Rk Player Team Pos Comp Att Pct Att/G Yds Avg Yds/G TD Int 1st 1st% Lng 20+ 40+ Sck Rate
1 Lac Edwards NYJ P 1 1 100.0 0.2 31 31.0 6.2 0 0 1 100.0 31 1 0 0 118.8

2 Johnny Hekker LA P 1 1 100.0 0.2 28 28.0 5.6 0 0 1 100.0 28 1 0 0 118.8

3 Sean Mannion LA QB 1 1 100.0 1.0 12 12.0 12.0 0 0 1 100.0 12 0 0 0 116.7

4 Sam Bradford MIN QB 27 32 84.4 32.0 346 10.8 346.0 3 0 14 43.8 44 8 1 1 143.0

5 Kevin Hogan CLE QB 26 38 68.4 12.7 377 9.9 125.7 3 2 14 36.8 49 7 2 2 104.8

6 Alex Smith KC QB 121 158 76.6 31.6 1,391 8.8 278.2 11 0 72 45.6 78T 14 3 17 125.8

7 Tom Brady NE QB 133 195 68.2 39.0 1,702 8.7 340.4 11 1 79 40.5 54 24 6 16 112.0

8 Cam Newton CAR QB 99 145 68.3 29.0 1,237 8.5 247.4 8 5 57 39.3 64 17 4 15 98.5

9 Kirk Cousins WAS QB 80 121 66.1 30.2 1,004 8.3 251.0 7 1 48 39.7 74 15 4 7 107.6

9 Jared Goff LA QB 100 164 61.0 32.8 1,360 8.3 272.0 7 3 62 37.8 69 24 3 6 94.1

11 Matt Ryan ATL QB 88 135 65.2 33.8 1,109 8.2 277.2 5 5 52 38.5 88T 12 3 8 87.5

12 Jacoby Brissett IND QB 77 127 60.6 25.4 997 7.9 199.4 2 3 41 32.3 63 13 4 14 80.7

13 Jameis Winston TB QB 94 154 61.0 38.5 1,198 7.8 299.5 7 3 63 40.9 58T 12 2 7 92.4

14 Andy Dalton CIN QB 104 159 65.4 31.8 1,220 7.7 244.0 7 6 55 34.6 77T 14 4 15 87.5

14 Carson Wentz PHI QB 110 177 62.1 35.4 1,362 7.7 272.4 10 3 66 37.3 72T 14 4 13 97.7

16 Case Keenum MIN QB 61 100 61.0 33.3 755 7.6 251.7 3 0 33 33.0 59T 11 3 4 94.4

17 Drew Brees NO QB 105 152 69.1 38.0 1,135 7.5 283.8 8 0 57 37.5 52 16 3 4 108.3

18 Deshaun Watson HOU QB 90 145 62.1 29.0 1,072 7.4 214.4 12 4 57 39.3 48T 15 2 13 100.7

19 Marcus Mariota TEN QB 66 110 60.0 27.5 792 7.2 198.0 3 3 39 35.5 55T 11 2 2 79.8

19 Aaron Rodgers GB QB 126 189 66.7 37.8 1,367 7.2 273.4 13 3 71 37.6 72 17 4 19 104.1

21 Scott Tolzien IND QB 9 18 50.0 18.0 128 7.1 128.0 0 2 5 27.8 32 4 0 4 33.8

22 Philip Rivers LAC QB 116 194 59.8 38.8 1,365 7.0 273.0 9 5 68 35.1 75T 14 4 6 86.0

22 Trevor Siemian DEN QB 79 126 62.7 31.5 888 7.0 222.0 7 4 46 36.5 44 14 1 13 89.0

24 Derek Carr OAK QB 74 109 67.9 27.2 753 6.9 188.2 7 2 37 33.9 64T 10 1 8 101.2

24 Josh McCown NYJ QB 105 147 71.4 29.4 1,020 6.9 204.0 5 4 49 33.3 69T 12 2 15 90.5

24 Carson Palmer ARI QB 136 227 59.9 45.4 1,573 6.9 314.6 6 5 74 32.6 46 22 2 19 80.5

24 Russell Wilson SEA QB 111 178 62.4 35.6 1,222 6.9 244.4 8 3 60 33.7 46 15 2 13 90.6

28 Dak Prescott DAL QB 112 179 62.6 35.8 1,192 6.7 238.4 11 4 58 32.4 53 13 2 7 93.1

28 Tyrod Taylor BUF QB 85 136 62.5 27.2 910 6.7 182.0 6 2 48 35.3 47 12 2 18 90.6

30 Eli Manning NYG QB 137 202 67.8 40.4 1,338 6.6 267.6 8 5 64 31.7 77T 9 3 13 89.1

31 Ben Roethlisberger PIT QB 120 195 61.5 39.0 1,269 6.5 253.8 6 7 62 31.8 51 13 3 9 75.8

31 Matthew Stafford DET QB 111 173 64.2 34.6 1,116 6.5 223.2 9 1 62 35.8 45T 11 1 18 97.4

33 Brian Hoyer SF QB 115 194 59.3 38.8 1,211 6.2 242.2 4 4 61 31.4 59 12 3 15 75.8

33 EJ Manuel OAK QB 24 43 55.8 21.5 265 6.2 132.5 1 1 13 30.2 41T 4 1 4 72.3

35 Blake Bortles JAX QB 74 135 54.8 27.0 827 6.1 165.4 7 4 47 34.8 35 7 0 5 78.2

36 Mike Glennon CHI QB 93 140 66.4 35.0 833 6.0 208.2 4 5 42 30.0 29 4 0 8 76.9

37 Joe Flacco BAL QB 92 144 63.9 28.8 823 5.7 164.6 4 6 44 30.6 54 6 3 9 71.0

38 Jay Cutler MIA QB 82 131 62.6 32.8 706 5.4 176.5 3 3 39 29.8 31 6 0 10 74.8

38 DeShone Kizer CLE QB 81 159 50.9 31.8 851 5.4 170.2 3 9 41 25.8 38 15 0 12 49.5

40 Tom Savage HOU QB 7 13 53.8 6.5 62 4.8 31.0 0 0 5 38.5 15 0 0 7 66.8

41 Ryan Mallett BAL QB 6 9 66.7 9.0 36 4.0 36.0 1 0 3 33.3 8 0 0 0 111.3

42 Matt Cassel TEN QB 25 42 59.5 21.0 162 3.9 81.0 1 2 10 23.8 17 0 0 8 55.9

43 Derek Anderson CAR QB 2 7 28.6 7.0 17 2.4 17.0 0 0 1 14.3 9 0 0 0 39.6

44 Ryan Fitzpatrick TB QB 0 1 0.0 1.0 0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0 0.0 -- 0 0 0 39.6

44 MarQueis Gray MIA TE 0 1 0.0 0.2 0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0 0.0 -- 0 0 0 39.6

44 Matt Haack MIA P 0 1 0.0 0.2 0 0.0 0.0 0 1 0 0.0 -- 0 0 0 0.0

44 Chad Henne JAX QB 0 2 0.0 2.0 0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0 0.0 -- 0 0 0 39.6

44 Brett Hundley GB QB 1 1 100.0 1.0 0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0 79.2

44 Jarvis Landry MIA WR 0 1 0.0 0.2 0 0.0 0.0 0 0 0 0.0 -- 0 0 0 39.6

44 Tanner McEvoy SEA WR 0 1 0.0 0.2 0 0.0 0.0 0 1 0 0.0 -- 0 0 0 0.0


would line em up, but lazy at the moment.

for kicks and giggles on NFL.com stats. got the lineup ordered by average yards per throw.

the average yards per throw are far different from Hogan and Kizer, so is the QB rtg. 104.8 to 49.5

kinda cool to see which QB's are throwing the farthest for fantasy purposes.

Not very windy at all IIRC. In Cleveland terms it was a nice day.

thanks for the reply. not sure how he beat out Parkey.

Seems to be a reoccuring theme, affirmation of draft stock over giving us our best chance to win.

-Cut Gonzalez
-Start Hogan over Kizer
-Make Duke the primary back over stumbling Crowell
-Throw the ball to Njoku as much as possible

Lets's start there and see where things go.

Well...he has won a single game.

Stop trading down though! Last year it was Wentz and this year it's Watson. I'm sick of the front office placing a premium on draft picks that they ultimately miss on.

Yeah, it seems like they just went with the guy they drafted.

The team is a mess. Blowing it up isn't the answer. Canning someone will most likely only hurt what speck of confidence they have left. Finding a replacement that is any better at this point is highly unlikely. After the season, perhaps, but who is going to want to show up in the midst of this? Give them one more season, while getting them some WR and DB help.

I'm fine with the play calling. The execution needs to get better. Execution will only get better with more reps together.

I don't think Hogan was all that much better than Kizer. The guys just happened to make the difficult catches instead of deflecting them straight to defenders. Yes, Kizer had the bad looking pick in the redzone, but he's used to practicing there against our slow corners (and safeties, processing speed in particular). I wonder if there was supposed to be a pick to cut out that defender. I'm not sure why they don't give Kizer easy reads in the redzone like jumpballs to Njoku.

Hogan's numbers were solid, but they were mostly in garbage time against soft D. The closest defender may have been 15 yards downfield when Duke caught his TD. Hogan's had clearer lanes and more time to escape on scrambles/extended plays. Kizer has his issues, no doubt, but the defense is throwing more at him and the rest of the team is letting him down.

It's too soon to give up on Gonzalez. He had a bad game. It's been known to happen. See if he bounces back.

Taylor seems to have regressed to the level of play that got him shipped out of Miami. I don't know if he's pressing (may be part of the whole team's problem) or what.

Njoku showed up this week. Hopefully, we can continue to get him more involved.

Hue could probably benefit from an Assistant HC who focuses more on the clock or maybe just a number cruncher to advise him on the sideline. Maybe take a more formulaic approach and have the thinking laid out for most situations in advance. I don't know.

We're so close, and yet, so very far at the same time. A centimeter and Crow's in the endzone instead of stumbling after a fumble.

We need to find a way to get the snowballs rolling in a positive direction instead of the negative one they tend to head now.

Watching the team is rough right now. We're young and missing pretty important pieces. They do need to get better. We are a somewhat fundamentally flawed team, but we do have some nice pieces here. Can we stay together through the growing pains? Frustration has definitely set in in the fan base, how deeply has it set in the team/Haslams?

Very disappointed.. Knocked on the door twice in the Redzone and ended up losing the ball both times. And geez, what's with this Zane Gonzalez kid?

I don't have an issue with the 50+ yard miss, but come on,,,,,

We were in a position to win this game by 2 TD's and a Field Goal and we didn't.

This thread should be combined with the gun control thread.. the Browns should not be allowed to buy all of the ammunition they use to shoot themselves in the foot.

Won both sides of the ball for almost the entire 60 minutes and still lose..

Why is everyone ignoring the two turnovers inside the 10? Not a factor in the loss?

Haha! Yeah, exactly!

Gonzalez isn't going anywhere. He was kept on the team because of his leg, not his price tag.

I'm almost tired (no, you know what, I am TIRED) of all the front office nay sayers using price tag as an excuse why we get rid of players. Value and performance are why we cut and move on from players.

We are ten times more talented today than when these guys came in here less than two years ago. You can't keep blaming lack of talent. We have that, but yes, not enough to win a super bowl, but we are definitely a more talented group.

Lack of talent is the wrong excuse. If you want to blame the lack of something, go with experience. I think if anything where the front office goofed was the need for experience. Most of our young players do not have a mentor. There is no one to teach them what they know, our youngsters have to figure it out on their own. Some are going to be better at that than others.

I keep blaming Hue, which he is definitely at fault, but I do give him props for at least trying to win. Hue is so desperate to win he's almost in panic mode. Our defense has been awesome all game. We tie the game at 10-10, have the defense make a stop and then Hogan gets us in FG range, we win 13-10. Hue needs to coach as if he were coaching a 4-0 team. A 4-0 team wouldn't go for it on 4th and 2 with a chip shot FG only being down 3 points. That is absolutely ludicrous.

I'm sorry to all the "front office is to blame" people, but this loss is solely on Hue and Hue alone. He had a chance to put us in a position to win and he blew it. If he kicks the FG and then the defense struggles to keep McCown and the jets out of the endzone, then you can chalk it up to growing pains.

No. Hue is to blame for this loss. Point blank.

How is he over 60? ... 50's for chumps .... *L*

Hue's play-calling and decision-making yesterday sure looked like that of a coach who believes he has plenty of talent to do what he wants to do.

The only thing worse than NOT taking the FG there is a combo of burning yet-another 2nd half timeout AND the play call he came up with during that timeout.

Hue wasn't thinking about using 4 downs until the heat of the moment. He let emotion make his decision. If he were certain about the use of four downs at that point, run the dang ball on 3rd AND 4th downs right there. His reason/excuse for going for it there was pathetic...his same reasoning was EXACTLY why he should have taken the 3 points.

That loss is on Hue. He let the team down. We aren't good enough to overcome poor execution, penalties, turnovers...and poor decisions by the head coach.

And NO...I do not want him fired or to even think about such a thing...but he was awful yesterday.

another game, another loss that if I hadn't seen play out countless times before, I wouldn't believe that it was possible.

Overall, I felt the Browns dominated that game. Except for the turnovers (duh) and the TD drive after the turnover on downs, we controlled the game.

To not be up by at least 10 points at half was unacceptable. Many a reason for this, but Hue is at the top of the blame game.

-Why are we calling an option???????? Horrible play call!!!!
-Going for it at the 4 yard line. Wasting a time out prior to probably the worst play call over the last 2 years. Horrible!!!!

Hue needs an OC if he wants to stay. no doubt about it. The man has too much on his plate and trying to call an offense on game day undoubtedly affects other aspects of his coaching responsibilities.

Those that are comparing Kizer to Aikman, Eli, Wentz or anyone else that has not sat, I will point out that each of those QB's were 2 years older than Kizer is at the time they were drafted. The only QB whose age is comparable to that of Kizer is Jared Goff. And he did not start right away for a bad team. Watson is only a year older, but he played quite a few marquee games prior to being drafted and seemed much more consistent than Kizer in college.

I will state it again, I believe Kizer has potential to be the man for the Browns, he is just not ready yet. I will also say that Hogan looks good and might be better than many on this board including myself gave him credit for.

I am not calling for a regime change because I feel it will not get the results we want. I am calling for adjustments. This team is close to being a solid team. we have some pieces, we just need to improve in some key areas.
WR and DB's are at the top of the list. Kicker added itself to the list this week.

j/c

Ricardo Louis looked like a legit NFL WR yesterday...let's see if he can string 'em together.

All of our recievers looked better in the second half.

All those QBs mentioned also had fairly well established teams around them when they were plugged in. I've yet to see a QB flourish from Day 1, when the guys around them were comparable to Isiah Crowell and Ricardo Lewis. Let alone, 21 years of age.

Good post. DK is only 21 with not much talent around him. He really started with a lot of learning to do and not a lot of talent around him to help. He's behind the 8 ball no doubt.

Outside of the dline, what position group is significantly more talented than they were 2 yrs ago? Just Where is this 10x more talent of which you speak?

Take your pick...

QB, WR, TE, LB, S, K...

You do realize that both Hoyer and McCown are playing better than any QB on our roster right now.

That's not what's in question...

McCown and Hoyer are much less talented than Kizer. In fact, I've read posts on here from some who think Kizer is the most talented QB we've had since 1999.

amazing how that not much talent looks like actual talent when hogan is in. That can't be coincidence right?

Physical talent yes! But QB IQ oooohhh hail NOOOOOOO

If it wasn't for Hue Jackson the Browns would be 5-0 and a sure fire favorite to win it all.

When you miss a 39 yd. field goal, and turn the ball over twice in the red zone the head coach should have his thumbs amputated on the sideline for all the fans to see what happens to losers.

Anytime a 0-4 team goes for it on a fourth and one in the redzone no matter if they make it or not the head coach should be spit upon by the entire team.

I heard that a guy farted while at dinner in Iowa no doubt that Hue Jackson made it happen.

He is very promising! Lets give him 4 more years and lock him up with a multi million $ package!!

When a different QB was behind center...

[quote=devicedawg]Take your pick...


Every one of those groups was more productive 2yrs ago. Potential doesn't mean squat if the player doesn't perform.

That was kinda the point.

As much as Kizer has played like poo-poo (the technical term), I'm still in his corner. But he has a loooooong way to go.

Haha it went over my head there. I;m a Browns fan, I'm allotted moments like these LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!

AHA! Were we better two years ago because we had better coaching or better players? Why were we more productive two years ago? That is the million dollar question...

This was sarcasm in case you didn't figure that out!

OL
TE
LBer

And dont forget year 1 was tearing down and stockpiling picks ...

Let me ask u guys this ...

When a new fo comes in and completely tears it down ... how much more talented do you expect the team to be 5 games into year 2? .... what should our expectations be as far as talent level on the team goes?

Not me nope, nope, nope.

Because I was not being sarcastic.

Just like you I can't figure anything out.

The Browns currently hold the NFL record for worst consecutive 21 game streak ever. 1-20.

No team in the history of the NFL has ever lost 20 out of 21 games.

And the streak isn’t necessarily over yet.

The once dominate Cleveland Browns.

Reduced to the worst team ever - not just this year - but the worst team of all time and it’s happening right now.

And not just suddenly - after 9 consecutive losing seasons.

There is a clear-cut answer.

I’m not sure why, but it’s obviously the team ownership.

As a miserable expansion team staffed with cast-off garbage players and rookies, the Browns won 2 out of 16 games in 1999. We all thought a Super Bowl was inevitable. Reasonably within 5 years.

I’m sorry, what was the question?

What do you mean, AHA! You said we have 10x the talent on our current team without a shred of proof to back up that statement.

10x better?

I just don't think Kizer has what it takes upstairs to be an NFL QB.

The kid just doesn't have it. I think we are all fooling ourselves if we think otherwise.

My original post on Kizer...

Probably be out in 2-3 years with all due respect!!

I think part of the issue is that people see other teams make these miraculous turnarounds and ask, "Why not us?". Those turnarounds are not the norm, but it seems like you hear about them around the league all the time.

Man we really gave away that game. I mean fans every week will tell you, when their team loses, that they gave away the game, but we literally giftwrapped this team a win.

I didn't see a second of the game either, I listened on my way home from Ohio. I listened to Donovan and Dieken call the game. I saw some highlights afterward, but it didn't take eyes to know that Kizer's decision making has got to improve.

And I'm really tired of this defense folding at the worst times. Hue going for it instead of kicking the field goal to tie? I'm all good with that call. You're 0-4 and this isn't the super bowl. The play call? You can debate that all day, but I am totally fine with the call. Even after failing, you have them backed up by their own end zone.



That's embarrassing. To Josh McCown, the same clown who stole a bunch of money from you, and won almost zero games in a few seasons.

I saw a lot on social media bout Hue Jackson "ruining" DeShone Kizer by benching him. Are we serious? If you're "ruined" because you got benched in the NFL, then you were never anything to begin with. What I'm upset about is that the mistakes he made are things we knew we were going to have to live with. We knew ahead of time this was going to happen.

But, Hue Jackson is feeling the pressure, because he has to win games, because the skids are being greased to run the next guy out of town.

This is ridiculous. We're never going anywhere if we don't stick with the plan.

I saw where he said the wind took the second kick. I was at the game and at that end of the stadium, there was no wind at all all day.

Kizer is getting worse. He's holding the ball too long and has little if any trust in his receivers. Take him out until the game slows down.

As for Hogan, he might not be a really good QB, but he does one of the best play action fakes I've ever seen. They should have taken advantage of that at the goal line instead of running Crow straight ahead.

He's like a golfer who's always pulling his shot: his leg is coming through the impact area too fast and thus has a slight hook. He'll clean that up with experience.
That's all JMHO by the way.

That makes sense. When he was practicing at halftime, all his kicks were wobbling and low. Good enough to get thru, but straining to do so.

[quote=Steubenvillian]Kizer is not ready to start.

Njoku, is going to be a star.

They better sign a kicker this week, if not already.

Should have kicked the field goal and tied the game. Momentum was with us at that point. After they fell short, the defense gave up two huge plays, the momentum was lost.q

The offense changed radically when Hogan came in. The routes were shorter and quicker, and it seemed that he can run the offense better and the offense was opened up somewhat more.

When Kizer was in the routes were noticeably longer, and many time all to the same side of the field. When Hogan was in, it was vastly different.

This game was lost on two INTs in the redzone, and a fumble, and topped off with two missed field goals. Kicker and QB get my blame.

Being at the game let me see things that I've been missing watching on TV

According to this article it was still 10-7. Vers liked your post, though.


"CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Browns had an opportunity to tie up the Jets in the fourth quarter on Sunday afternoon. Instead, coach Hue Jackson decided to play aggressively and go for it on fourth-and-2 from the Jets' 4-yard line.

Trailing 10-7 in the fourth quarter with 13:03 to go, the Browns had put together an 11-play, 81-yard drive to put themselves in position to at least tie the game...."

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/10/hue_jackson_put_faith_in_his_r.html

How dare he?

You have issues, Mr. Mod.

1976/1977 Tampa Bay Buccaneers... 26 losses in a row! That’s a streak. Browns had a win toward the end of the year last year that broke the losing streak. Browns are a horrible dumpster fire but saying it is unprecedented isn’t true. Lions had 19 straight losses a few years back. Not sure what that number would look like if you start adding 1 or 2 wins here or there if they went 1-22 or something like that. There have been several teams about this bad. Browns are gonna lose a lot more this year though. They weren’t designed to win this year or last year.

J/C

I would like to know these questions:

1. Why is BBC playing behind Taylor?? Is it me, or is every big play we give up Taylor missing coverage completely or getting burnt??

2. Why did it take you 5 games to play Peppers more up to the LOS? He is an athlete and needs the freedom to roam and make plays. Playing him 40 yards off the ball was just bad game planning.

3. Why has Kasen Williams not been given more time? We know what Louis and Higgins are, as well as Britt. Its time we start seeing what these other guys have. Coates I know has been hurt, but I want to see him too. My top 4 WR would be Williams, Higgens, Treggs, and Coates - in no particular order. The rest I have seen enough of.

4. Why do we not get Njoku into the gameplan more? Same with Delvalve. Going off the above, I might even run Njoku and Delvalve and Duke as my 3 WR. lol

5. Crowell looked better sunday, but I still think it is evident that Duke is the better all around back, and needs the majority of touches. I have seen enough of Crow to know that he is not a starting RB.

6. AND THE BIGGEST QUESTION - If Britt is worth the 8 million we are paying him, why the heck was Haden not worth the 11 we were paying him?

I think Zane will be fine, lets not get crazy about cutting him. You all wanted Parkey cut after his 1st game when he missed 3 and then you all yelling we didn't keep him. lol

which is it? give the kid some time, he will be fine. He was the best K in college last year, the NFL is not much different when it comes to kicking. He had a couple bad kicks, no big deal.

j\c The FO is god awful the coaching is god awful Kizer the loser college QB. has played god awful, but what do I know.....maybe that might answer a few of your questions.

All I saw was a few minutes in the 1st qtr ...an option lateral fumble just few yards from a TD. That was all I needed to see. I was really down at that point and just couldn't take watching us blow up again. I turned it off and spent the day doing chores.

Seems to me Kiser blew the game right then and there and never really got over it. Smart to make him sit in the second half to think about taking care of the ball. I expect Hue to give him another shot. But we'll see.

That fumble was all on CROW, I don't know how anyone could put that on kizer, it hit crow in stride right in the hands.

I think Kizer does enough to give him his criticism but that was not on him.

I disagree. The play should not have been called to begin with. Kiser should have tucked it ran it. Poor coaching decision and a rookie mistake of tossing the ball away that close to the EZ. What veteran QB does that anyway? But yeah Crow dropped a poorly tossed shovel/lateral/whatever. That was it for me, game over.

Was it kizer that called the play? And even if it was a the wrong read to pitch it, the fumble still goes to crow, it him directly in his hands, no excuse for that.

I disagree... the pitch is WAY out in front of Crow. If blame must be assigned, I think it's on Kizer. Hit Crow in the fingers, I'd say.


In general, I'm ok with benching Kizer. Maybe I'm just resigning myself to what's happening. Kizer is not progressing. At best, he's where he was at when we started the season. He's probably regressed a little. The guy needed to sit, so now he's going to sit. As far as the coaching decision goes, at some point patience becomes coddling. Kizer needs to take this decision, refocus, and get to work. There's a laundry list of things he needs to improve... many that he can absolutely nail down outside of Sunday.

Even if Crowell had caught the pitch the play probably would have gone for a loss as there was a free defender in front of them. Kizer screwed up in that he didn't turn up field and make the LBer commit to one or the other.

Kizer called the play, yes.

*LOL* .... that was great ... ty ...

Kizer audibled/hot-read to that option. Why that was even a choice right there is the problem.

I thought it was a poor pitch...and Crow went after it with his usual burst and enthusiasm.

My dad showed up to watch the game with me and tie flies. As soon as the turnover happened, he got up to leave. I was like, dad I got a porterhouse steak for you at half. His response was he would rather go home and eat my step mother's two day old leftover's than watch another second of the game; he knew the Browns were digging another hole they couldn't get out of. Can't say I blame him.

Over the last few years, whenever we get inside the 10 yard line, its almost as if someone on the sideline says "Hey, lets try this, this will never work.". I have seen some of the most boneheaded plays that anyone could imagine from the Browns inside the 10. Its unbelievable and beyond exasperating.

I jokingly say to my dad each time we get into the redzone: let's just kneel it and take a fg ... sadly, I'm more and more serious each week

That is actually a sad story.

I like you, Dave. I think you are a great poster. However, I disagree w/your take. The play calls aren't stupid........the execution sucks.

We have inferior talent and we are inexperienced. Carolina scored on a very similar play this past week. It's not the call in this situation. It's the talent trying to execute it.

It is.
Dad bailed after ONE turnover?
With a steak ready, flies to be tied and quality time with the boy Varmint?

when kizer is in hue is horrible playcaller....hogan in and hue starts to kick ass...can we claim he leans toward hogan or just hogan gets it...

i think hogan just gets it

Count me in on that aswell....I was sitting here watching and as soon as I saw Kizer audible to the option and the fumble happened I clicked the off button.....

I actually got angry. I don't normally get that upset but something snapped in my head and I yelled, "What the %@$@# was that!! If you want to run the damn ball then run the damn thing but for the love of God an OPTION PLAY!!!!"

I did turn the game back on and was brought back into a calm easy and even excited mood watching Hogan.

I read somewhere that Hogan did well in garbage time??? The final score was 17-14 and until half way through the 4th there was no "garbage" time. Hogan got the ball out on time, on target, and the non existent WR's and players that suck so bad actually looked like an avg offense. If understanding the concepts and having an extra season under your belt is all Hogan needed to just pop into the game and pick the team up then boy howdy give him a shot.

I still haven't figured out why and how Hogan can't ever be the starter seems to me he did an excellent job at Stanford in a pro style game against some tough teams and big games. I always thought his throwing motion looked funny but so did Bernie's. I guess I just don't understand how you write guys off so easily, not all the great QB's were first overall's ya know that right??

Hogan knows the installs and how the plays should be run.

Imo Hogan pre snap sees the defensive alignment an knows where he wants to go with the ball.

That an he throws a very nice catchable ball.

It hurts to "Like" that post.

That stupid option 'option' should have NEVER been in the game plan.

Hue wasn't ready to use four downs at the goal line...burned a timeout...and called a stupid Crow run up Zeitler's butt.

Hue won't roll Kizer out at mid-filed, but he will at the goal line.

The play-calling in the red zone needs to be better.

Knowing we have inferior talent and are inexperienced the OC needs to keep those plays in the book and save them for garbage time. We needed an early TD. This is on the coaches for sending the play in. And on Kiser for not executing Hue's play in the huddle by saying I'm keeping it guys...block.

I agree, it isn't the plays except if we know our talent is questionable, maybe we don't try as many gadgets is my thought, but I agree, if we pull it off, great call.

Let me know when that happens. Until then, maybe we could try a play action left / QB bootleg right / TE drag right and make the LB decide which guy he is defending and which will score a touchdown. It never fails for our opponents. Or this, if that is too "gadget-y" for you, just run it between the tackles 4 times and see if Crowell is worth the money he can't stop thinking about. At the worst you turn it over on downs at the 1-2 yard line.

If Vers was referring to the McCaferry TD it wasn’t even close to the same play ... well OK .. it was a QB option ... Cam had 3 options ours had 2 ...

Cam had the run option and the pitch option just like we did ... he also had McCaffery for the shovel pass .... it was a really cool play design ... he went with the shovel pass to Caff ...

Saw another really cool play from of all places the Bears OC ... u may have seen it ... it was the play Mitch scored the TD on .. really cool design ... it ended up being an option play with Mitch as the pitch option ... if u didn’t see it .. YouTube Mitch’s TD run ...

So two teams run an option on the goal line w/the qb rolling left and they aren't "even close" because the one team had an extra option?



The success/fail rate of these option plays had nothing to do w/execution and it had everything to do w/one coach calling a good play and another coach calling a bad play.


Hmmmmmmmm.........very interesting.

Defending 2 options is the same as defending 3 options ...

Got it .. i love learning, thanks for the education ...

I never said they were the same play. I said they were "similar" plays and you came back w/your infinite wisdom and said they weren't even close.

I’m not going to sit here and argue with u over how i phrased something ... i’ll Leave that petty BS To U ....

u said they were similar and that was decieving to me .... as i said they were BOTH OPTIONS one just had 33% more options .... thats not similar to me ...

It was a cool play design .. as was the one in the chicago game ...

If u didn’t see it go youtube it ...

BYE BYE ...

50% more options...just sayin'.

...or 33% fewer options. Just sayin'...

You started the argument and are now saying you won't argue the petty BS. LOL....

I was being nice with the additional options.... not sure why as he certainly doesn’t deserve it with his tude lately ... especially from me ... *L* ...

Those turnarounds seem instant (almost overnight) and the result of one or two particular draft picks or FA acquisitions to those who don't follow that team closely. When you look at most of those "sudden" turnarounds, you can go back 2 or 3 years and see pieces being put into place that facilitated that turnaround.

Which brings up the $25,000 question.. this core of young guys we have brought in, is this our 2 or 3 years of putting pieces in place for the "sudden" turnaround in the next year or two.. or are we just swapping pieces and treading water?

I sure hope that it's setting up for the big "turnaround," but I worry that we keep letting essential pieces go to the point where we do end up treading water.

There are a boatload of rookies and second year players gettin significant playing time. Another boatload will arrive next spring. 2020 is the breakout year from what I see.

I am not down on the selections of the players that were drafted. I question the QB stuff. In the NFL you will not win consistently until the QB has been found.

Eh, I would mostyl disagree. You're talking about Cam Newton who has run the option since he was a child and Kizer who to my knowledge has never run it. Neither has Crow. Two players attempting to do things they should never be asked to.

That right there is the POINT and another reason why Hue gets the criticism he gets. It was cute...and stupid...for that option to even be an option for the QB at that moment. I added the BOLD to the end of your post.

Don'tchaknow? No good deed goes unpunished.

Kind of, yes. I've watched the play multiple times.. Kizer didn't "pitch" it as much as he pushed it with both hands in Crows direction. Looked totally awkward.

I understand players need to execute but coaches need to call plays that the players have a higher probability of executing well. That's how you put your players in a position to succeed.

My biggest issue with that whole sequence of events was.. we had 1st and goal from the 6, ran for 3 yards.. 2nd and goal from the 3.. we throw an incompletion.. then run the option.

I know hindsight is always 20/20.. but with 1st and goal from the 6, I said emphatically that we should run it 3 times.. Hue says he wants to run the ball, so given 3 chances he doesn't trust that we can get 6 yards?

And that why this is a buetiful game and how we all see things differently ...

I had no problem with that play call ... none ... as long as its a play they practiced until they looked like a well oiled machine running it in practice ... witch i’d be shocked if they didn’t ...

So on this one .. i have zero problem with the play call .. the flaws in the execution started with the pitch ... your 100% correct .. bad pitch ... to me it looked like instead of pitching it with his left hand ... he guided it with his left and literally just pushed it with his right ... that looked nothing like any pitch i’ve ever seen before .. *L* ... NOT HUES FAULT as long as we looked good doing it in practice ..

It was not a good pitch .. it was however catchable ... not an easy catch but theres no reason crow should not have secured that ball ... it was out in front of him and it hit his hands in a way he should have secured it ... again ... NOT HUES FAULT ...

So i have zero problem with that play call ... obviously others do ... and now u bring a new angle to it .. u didn’t like the sequence cause u felt we should have run it 3 times ... what a great game ...

My problem is on the 4th down call .. that one was downright atrocious! Obviously their was flawed execution on that one also but the play call DOOMED THEM FROM THE START!!!! I’d of actually rather have seen him try the pitch play again ... *L* ...

Shortest distance between to two points is a straight line with an expensive Offensive Line.. lol

Sometimes the roads between those two points are under construction and u need to take a detour ... sometimes the construction is so bad u may even have to fly ...

*LOL* ...

All flights have been grounded until next draft.

What about taking detours? ... hopefully the skies clear up with a new pilot ...

And that's the funny part about this DC. That pitch option is used a lot even in high school. It's used a ton in college. If there's one play that Kizer should have been able to execute, that option was one of them. He simply didn't.

If I remember right , it was like second and goal at the tree .. In my simple mind I have three shots at the Zone .. I tell my line that its time to earn your pay check cause I'm running it three times , NORTH and SOUTH ! I give Crow two shots and The Duke one , if need be !

At the tree? Made me reminisce about my glory days when playing backyard football.

But did you ever use the tree as a "pick"?

Back when the goalposts were at the goal line, Gary Collins used to use the goalpost as a pick. Another time, I saw Jim Brown try to pull himself into the end zone by grabbing the goalpost.

Me, I used the Chevy at the curb in front of the Arnold's house.

He didn’t run it ONCE IN COLLEGE ... NOT ONCE ... ok ... maybe he ran it in practice .. he never ran it in a game ... NOT ONCE ....

Keep ASSuming Pit ... its very becoming ....

I have no clue if he ever ran it in HS .... did u get to Toledo often for games ... .... U used to never talk out your ass .. now you do it more than u don’t ...

Where did I say Kizer ran it? I said it's a common, basic play that's used often in high school and college. It's not a complicated play.

You used to not claim people said things they didn't say either. I guess we all change.

There’s your quote Pit ...

Guess i mis interpreted it ... ...

U know exactly what u did ....

Between U and Vers ..... U need a lawyer around here lately ...

And the majority of posts are insults.

Not sure if you are the pot or the kettle

Yo Yo fellas ... need a hand with the mirror again ...

More like responding in kind.

Hue may have been to blame for the loss, but I disagree that he had a chance to put them in a position to win.

field goal or not, that would have changed the Jets outlook on the final drive and allowed td by Duke.

Fact is, the score was 17-7 with 3 minutes, (about 3 minutes) to go in the 4th.

The Browns weren't in position to win, as there is no 10 point play in football.

They weren't even really in position to tie.

The final score looks closer than the game outcome being even in jeopardy.

It was 10-7 when Hue pulled the field goal team off the field and went for it on 4th down. Had he kicked the filed goal, the game would have been tied 10-10 right there. Even if the defense gave up points immediately after our field goal, it would still have been a one score game.