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#1669658 - 09/28/19 02:16 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Versatile Dog]
WSU Willie Offline

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Registered: 09/23/06
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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
I ignored your crap earlier, but this is the second time you called me a liar. You are misrepresenting my claims. I have also provided multiple links w/stats, videos, charts, analytics, etc to support every freaking claim I have made.



Oh please...there is a HUGE difference between someone saying you are wrong and someone calling you a liar.

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#1669663 - 09/28/19 02:54 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Baker_Dawg]
BustkeviousMingo Offline
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Registered: 09/27/15
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Originally Posted By: Baker_Dawg
It's fine if he wants to post unprovable lies


That seems like being called a liar to me
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#1669671 - 09/28/19 03:43 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Versatile Dog]
DiamDawg Offline

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Registered: 11/06/06
Posts: 15083
That wasnít meant the way u took it ... as soon as i typed it i was hoping u wouldnít bring t up ... *L* ... it was pretty bad phrasing by me ....

Your football evals of Bake are spot on where as Baker Brown sounds like device is typing them out ... *L* ...

I also think your way to harsh on him personally ... and the way u defend the OL leads many to believe you think bake stinks even though thats not true at all ... kinda like they say u loved Hue cause u wanted him to get a fair shake ... it was about others perception of u as opposed to the reality of how u feel .... make sense? ...

Iíll just shut up now ... *L* ...



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#1669686 - 09/28/19 05:09 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: DiamDawg]
Versatile Dog Offline

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It's okay. I remember talking to you and you said you only skimmed this thread, so I wanted to make sure you didn't miss my earlier claims.

I have backed off of the OL a bit after seeing their grades about how often they are winning their blocking match-ups, which was 3rd in the entire league last time I looked. I was harder on them when I first started this thread, but they have played better the past two games.
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#1669715 - 09/28/19 05:53 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Versatile Dog]
DevilDawg2847 Offline

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Over the years, I have often taken the time to explain coverages, blocking schemes, pre and post-snap reads, alignments, etc. I have done so to help educate others and have been fairly thorough when describing these things and have been open to answering questions. After years of such posts, you still think I don't know what I'm talking about....well, maybe we shouldn't talk.


And curiously you still don't think anyone else knows what they are talking about. I was gone for a few months and when I came back I took you off ignore because I saw a number of posts from you that were reasonable and respectful.

But you did what Vers always does. Its always just a matter of time. God forbid anyone see something just a little bit different than you or posit an alternative. It's just so strange how bent you get when people aren't even telling you that you're wrong tongue

Whatever dude. Enjoy your "genius" LOL I'm just glad the odds of ever sitting next to you during a game is virtually none. I'll go back to sitting in the cheap seats with the other undesirables.
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#1669716 - 09/28/19 05:56 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: DevilDawg2847]
Versatile Dog Offline

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I'm not participating in this fight. Have a good one.
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#1669732 - 09/28/19 06:43 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Versatile Dog]
Versatile Dog Offline

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I'm hoping that we make some adjustments this week in regards to scheme. It's fairly certain that we won't be 21 or 22 personnel. It's looking like 11 personnel will be far more prevalent than 12 and 13 personnel.

I don't agree w/these decisions, but what can we do given the packages our staff prefers?

--Run more motion. The reason for that it helps identify the coverage. The qb can read what the safeties do and if the corner trails the receiver in motion. That's an advantage. We ran a ton of motion last year. We have not repeated that tendency thus far this year.

--Throw more to the running backs on either screens or into the flat.

--Flood zones w/receivers and throw to the underneath guy.

--Keep the defense honest by throwing deep passes down the sidelines.

--Try to implement more one-read plays. Baltimore has been pressuring the qb and Earl Thomas is great at picking off passes. That's a bad combo for us. We have to try and game-plan against their strengths.
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#1671584 - 09/29/19 06:05 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Versatile Dog]
Bard Dawg Offline

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I thought the screens and ground pounding went well. I did not know, but saw it today, that Master Chubb has some breakaway speed. It was a beautiful thing! Run him some more!
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#1671635 - 09/29/19 07:04 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Versatile Dog]
cfrs15 Offline

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A ton of 12 personnel today against the Ravens.

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#1671638 - 09/29/19 07:06 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: cfrs15]
Dawgs4Life Offline

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Originally Posted By: cfrs15
A ton of 12 personnel today against the Ravens.
its what you want
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"First down inside the 10. A score here likely puts us in the Super Bowl. Landry is far to the left as Hooper settles into the slot. OBJ is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Hunt are split in the backfield as Baker takes the snap ... Here we go."

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#1671645 - 09/29/19 07:10 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Dawgs4Life]
cfrs15 Offline

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Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
A ton of 12 personnel today against the Ravens.
its what you want


If Jarvis Landry is out next we'll get even more with Higgins and Callaway rotating opposite OBJ.

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#1671669 - 09/29/19 07:40 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: cfrs15]
Versatile Dog Offline

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Yes, it helped. So did the emphasis on getting the ball out quickly. Glad to see the adjustments.
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#1671710 - 09/29/19 08:59 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Versatile Dog]
FrankPitts Offline
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Registered: 09/23/19
Posts: 59
Gotta give a dog his day. Freddie fixed some things on scheme today, and Baker and the rest of the O responded. Gotta keep it rolling now.

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#1671807 - 09/30/19 08:32 AM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Versatile Dog]
Bard Dawg Offline

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I think a bunch of things got cleaned up. For the most part, I would grade us as playing more focused mentally, and being mentally tougher overall than I have seen us. We didn't just battle; we executed. Chubb rocked. Baker mayfield had himself a day, and looked ready to play this week for a change.
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#1671838 - 09/30/19 09:37 AM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: cfrs15]
cfrs15 Offline

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#1671844 - 09/30/19 09:42 AM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: cfrs15]
Dawgs4Life Offline

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Boom .. keep that trend
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"First down inside the 10. A score here likely puts us in the Super Bowl. Landry is far to the left as Hooper settles into the slot. OBJ is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Hunt are split in the backfield as Baker takes the snap ... Here we go."

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#1671854 - 09/30/19 10:17 AM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: cfrs15]
Versatile Dog Offline

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This is awesome. We were so much more physical today than we were in game one. I'm impressed that Freddie has made adjustments. Now, bring back a FB and run a little 21 and 22 personnel. Not a ton, but we were pretty good at that last year.
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#1671857 - 09/30/19 10:24 AM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Versatile Dog]
WSU Willie Offline

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Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 6007
j/c - mostly

I wonder what was/is the impetus to get back to that particular scheme.

Wss is realization? Was it getting two, new TEs up-to-speed? Did it come from above? Had they fallen in pre-mature love with the weapons at their disposal?

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#1671860 - 09/30/19 10:27 AM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: WSU Willie]
Versatile Dog Offline

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I give Freddie credit for realizing what he needed to do.

Like I said earlier, I understand why they wanted to go to 11 Personnel. It wasn't working. Gotta give Freddie credit for adjusting.
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#1671868 - 09/30/19 10:52 AM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Versatile Dog]
WSU Willie Offline

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I agree. I think the scheme was holding everyone/everything back and exposing some shortcomings that our guys couldn't deal with/handle.

If you were having a beer with FK, I'd love to hear his opinion as to why the other scheme(s) weren't working and what they expected vs what the GOT out of that 'other' scheme(s).

QB? I think gonna be special...but still young/inexperienced

Injured TE? Two new guys

OL? Ejection, injury, injury, new guy playing out of position, ability

Higgins? Missing safety blanket

Whatever the reason(s)...yesterday looked pretty good and I hope we keep that up.

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#1671889 - 09/30/19 11:53 AM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: cfrs15]
Bard Dawg Offline

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Good call by Paul. These numbers do not lie, and are a shocking improvement. A little more chest pounding and knuckle dragging, if you please, FK!

Excited to see more of this team we saw yesterday.
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#1671903 - 09/30/19 12:19 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: WSU Willie]
oobernoober Offline

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As long as we don't revert back, I'm good with just calling it a learning opportunity and moving on.
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#1671965 - 09/30/19 02:06 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Versatile Dog]
cfrs15 Offline

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#1671968 - 09/30/19 02:09 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: cfrs15]
Versatile Dog Offline

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More good information. Thanks.

Kudos to Freddie.

I thought the scheme topic was big. And it was getting bigger and bigger. Glad that Freddie made adjustments. It's only one week, but I think the adjustments were for the better.

Much better.
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#1671971 - 09/30/19 02:16 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: cfrs15]
Dawgs4Life Offline

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Beautiful .. get Chubb down hill fast
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"First down inside the 10. A score here likely puts us in the Super Bowl. Landry is far to the left as Hooper settles into the slot. OBJ is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Hunt are split in the backfield as Baker takes the snap ... Here we go."

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#1671986 - 09/30/19 02:41 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Versatile Dog]
superbowldogg Offline

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
I give Freddie credit for realizing what he needed to do.

Like I said earlier, I understand why they wanted to go to 11 Personnel. It wasn't working. Gotta give Freddie credit for adjusting.


I agree 100% we were out of the gun significantly less and oddly enough, Baker looked more comfortable.
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#1671994 - 09/30/19 03:03 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: superbowldogg]
oobernoober Offline

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Originally Posted By: superbowldogg
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
I give Freddie credit for realizing what he needed to do.

Like I said earlier, I understand why they wanted to go to 11 Personnel. It wasn't working. Gotta give Freddie credit for adjusting.


I agree 100% we were out of the gun significantly less and oddly enough, Baker looked more comfortable.


I hope this was a lesson learned, and not just something they did for the Ravens. It would be so 'Browns' of them to switch the scheme back for the next games.
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There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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#1672012 - 09/30/19 03:59 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: oobernoober]
PrplPplEater Offline

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Originally Posted By: oobernoober
Originally Posted By: superbowldogg
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
I give Freddie credit for realizing what he needed to do.

Like I said earlier, I understand why they wanted to go to 11 Personnel. It wasn't working. Gotta give Freddie credit for adjusting.


I agree 100% we were out of the gun significantly less and oddly enough, Baker looked more comfortable.


I hope this was a lesson learned, and not just something they did for the Ravens. It would be so 'Browns' of them to switch the scheme back for the next games.


Don't be TOO upset if it seems this way.

I say that because there isn't a single answer to it all; they will modify things week-to-week as the offense grows and as things need to be depending upon who we're facing.
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#1672017 - 09/30/19 04:27 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Versatile Dog]
cfrs15 Offline

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I have to say that I love that they said that they were going to make adjustments and then made the adjustments. How many coaches have we had that just do the thing they want to do no matter the fit?

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#1672026 - 09/30/19 04:43 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: cfrs15]
Dawgs4Life Offline

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Originally Posted By: cfrs15
I have to say that I love that they said that they were going to make adjustments and then made the adjustments. How many coaches have we had that just do the thing they want to do no matter the fit?
I thought of this yesterday, too ... it was very nice to see them NOT be stubborn and get things corrected. IMO, thatís a great sign for things to come becaus we should see this improve even more
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"First down inside the 10. A score here likely puts us in the Super Bowl. Landry is far to the left as Hooper settles into the slot. OBJ is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Hunt are split in the backfield as Baker takes the snap ... Here we go."

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#1672500 - 10/01/19 07:42 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Versatile Dog]
DeputyDawg Offline
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As far as the first week of adjusting, they did well. There is more adjusting to go though and Baker still doesn't look comfortable.

More Chubb, more quick passes, more practice.

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#1672512 - 10/01/19 08:21 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: DeputyDawg]
Versatile Dog Offline

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Agreed. And more 12 personnel.

I thought I would copy and paste the write-up about 12 personnel from the link that was in the OP since we ran more of it last week.

Quote:
This isnít the most popular personnel grouping in the league, but Iíd guess that if most NFL teams could base out of 12 personnel, they would. The formational versatility that having two viable tight ends on the field provides would entice any play-caller. A team can line up in a condensed, run-first look one down and then spread things out the next down ó and doing so without huddling doesnít give the defense a chance to sub. If a team wants to operate out of a no-huddle, 12 personnel is the best way to do it in the NFL. The two tight ends create eight run gaps to defend while still maintaining four immediate vertical threats in the passing game. That makes the decision to drop a safety into the box to defend the run a difficult one.


I do wish we would bring in a FB and run more 21 personnel like last year, but that doesn't look like it is going to happen. I was encouraged by what we did in 12 personnel last week. We won the LOS.
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#1672518 - 10/01/19 08:52 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Versatile Dog]
DeputyDawg Offline
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Agreed and more different personnel packages period!

Heck! Bring back some wishbone too!

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#1672564 - 10/01/19 10:28 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: DeputyDawg]
cfrs15 Offline

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Originally Posted By: DeputyDawg
Agreed and more different personnel packages period!

Heck! Bring back some wishbone too!


Based on what we saw last week (the option shovel pass to Jarvis Landry and the double reverse pass with OBJ) I think the creativity from last year is going to start reappearing. I think it's probable that it just took Freddie Kitchens a few weeks to start feeling himself.

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#1672567 - 10/01/19 10:30 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: cfrs15]
Versatile Dog Offline

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Perhaps. Although I think that the use of trick/gimmicky plays are best utilized on a random basis and not a staple of the offense from week to week.
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#1672569 - 10/01/19 10:33 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Versatile Dog]
cfrs15 Offline

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Perhaps. Although I think that the use of trick/gimmicky plays are best utilized on a random basis and not a staple of the offense from week to week.


I agree about gimmicks but the creativity is a different thing. Creativity meaning different formations, personnel packages, concepts, etc.

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#1672571 - 10/01/19 10:34 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Versatile Dog]
cfrs15 Offline

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#1672572 - 10/01/19 10:35 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: cfrs15]
cfrs15 Offline

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I had been thinking the same thing about the RPO/slant tendency. At some point OBJ is going to pop deep on one of those.

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#1672574 - 10/01/19 10:38 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: cfrs15]
Versatile Dog Offline

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Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Perhaps. Although I think that the use of trick/gimmicky plays are best utilized on a random basis and not a staple of the offense from week to week.


I agree about gimmicks but the creativity is a different thing. Creativity meaning different formations, personnel packages, concepts, etc.


???

Whatever.
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#1672580 - 10/01/19 10:47 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: cfrs15]
Versatile Dog Offline

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Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 48606
Originally Posted By: cfrs15


A good play caller calls his plays like building blocks and it's why I think Shanny is the best in the business.

Think about this for an example.

Remember the play where RSG scored the TD that some of us talked about in the Game Day forum? We ran a vertical route from the slot. We had OBJ running a drag across the middle from the left side. RSG ran underneath him from the right side. That is two rub/pick routes on one play. Very effective in the red zone.

Now, build upon that. Following me? What's the next step if we run that same play from around our 30 plus to around their 40?

From that field position, the idea would be to run OBJ off of the TE's rub and the vertical rub. The defenders are going in one direction and w/OBJ's speed, he crosses their faces and catches the ball and is off to the races.
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