x

Page 2 of 10 < 1 2 3 4 ... 9 10 >
Topic Options
#1661516 - 09/12/19 03:45 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Versatile Dog]
drobs Offline

Dawg Talker

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 1245
J/C - I'v not posted or read much at all since that car wreck Sunday.

The posts on here are spot on. We ran the ball really effectively against TEN (over 5ypc) and I understand we were always playing catch-up. However, when we were went 2 scores down in the 4th, we abandoned the run completely.

We still had time to take chunks on the floor and set up PA. We did neither.

Freddie orchestrated the offensive turnaround last year and I expect us to run and run some more on the Jets. As evidenced here, GW defenses can be run on - and I like him as a coach, it's not a slight on him. I would also say that the long developing plays we say Sunday need to go - GW will play for the turnovers despite them having a not great secondary.

Run Chubb, max protect Baker, take the small gains and sprinkle in the odd, I won't call trick play (like the Landry runs last year), but make it simple and quick.

If only Joe T could have made this season. Man....

Top
#1661517 - 09/12/19 03:48 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Versatile Dog]
drobs Offline

Dawg Talker

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 1245
I will add - with our receiving talent, ww should excel at maximising the returns out of PA or a RPO offense. They won't stack the box because they wil be terrified OBJ will rip them over the top but if we continue to take 4, 5,6 yards a run, they will have to.

I want us to dictate what happens when the offense is on the field. It was the other way around on Sunday.

Top
#1662251 - 09/13/19 11:36 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Versatile Dog]
SuperBrown Offline

Dawg Talker

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 2418
Loc: Birmingham, Alabama
Offensive Scheme??

You mean we have one?

News to me.
_________________________


Freddie Isn't Ready!

Top
#1663029 - 09/16/19 09:45 AM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Versatile Dog]
Versatile Dog Offline

Legend

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 43012
I know most of the board doesn't think the scheme and personnel packages are a big deal, but there are some former NFL guys who agree w/me.

I was listening to the show w/Rex Ryan, Tedi Bruschi, Moss, and M. Hassleback yesterday and they were discussing how the scheme really hurt the Browns last Sunday. The plays were slow-developing and that is what caused a lot of the pressure on Baker. They were talking about how OBJ and Landry were actually open and that we should get them the ball quicker and let them do their thing. Rex said there was a lot of pressure on Freddie to get this fixed.

Moss was sent to Cleveland to have a sit-down w/OBJ and Landry. They showed a brief clip and that is what got the discussion started. They are going to show the full interview tonight. I think coverage starts at 6:00, if anyone is interested.

Freddie will take the heat and he is the HC. But, I think this change in philosophy is from Monken. I just don't think our OL and Baker are ready for such a scheme. And I also believe this will be one of the most important decisions we make in regards to our success this season.
_________________________
#GotRealPlayers

Top
#1663037 - 09/16/19 10:15 AM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Versatile Dog]
Dawgs4Life Online   content

Legend

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 45739
Loc: Edinboro, PA
Good point about the QUICK passing game ... IMO, get it to OBJ right away. Slants, screens, quick outs, etc ... no need to always wait for him to get open deep
_________________________
"First down as we threaten again. A score here puts us in the Super Bowl. Odell is far to the left as Landry settles into the slot. Njoku is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Hunt are split in the backfield as Baker takes the snap ... Here we go."

Top
#1663048 - 09/16/19 10:42 AM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Versatile Dog]
cfrs15 Offline

Legend

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 34408
Loc: Monrovia, Ca
We are definitely running different personnel versus last year. But who comes off the field and who goes on? We have no depth at tight end and no fullback on the roster.

Top
#1663049 - 09/16/19 10:45 AM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: cfrs15]
Versatile Dog Offline

Legend

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 43012
Good point about the TEs and FB. And the fact that they moved on from guys like Fells and Charles and don't even have a FB, is scaring me.

I could be wrong, but I really don't think we are a better team by relying so much on the 11 Personnel package.
_________________________
#GotRealPlayers

Top
#1663050 - 09/16/19 10:45 AM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Versatile Dog]
WSU Willie Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 5173
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
I know most of the board doesn't think the scheme and personnel packages are a big deal...


rolleyes

And you KNOW this how? Exactly? You KNOW it. Whatever.

Or is this akin to Baker having thrown a hissy fit?
_________________________
My New Year's resolution...forget the past...except for the spot in the Raider's game...the inexplicable decision to not give Baker ANY 1st team reps in camp...and not playing Chubb until it was forced upon them. I'm sure I'll let more slip in here tho.

Top
#1663072 - 09/16/19 11:23 AM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Versatile Dog]
bonefish Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 5499
Loc: Reno, Nevada

These are good points regarding the scheme.

I don't know if it is Monken?

Last year although it was the Haley offense Freddie made adjustments to get the ball out quickly.

IMO. Playing under center and establishing play action through the run game is critical.

We can not succeed IMO running all plays from shotgun. We have to show the ability to be able to run the ball. Under center off play action the defense has to honor the run. The linebackers have to momentarily look to the gaps. It opens up pass play options.

Freddie ran some interesting plays last year. The offense was potent. The ball came out fast. We also ran the ball with Chubb.

Lot of things were out of whack last week.

Hopefully we will get it together.

Top
#1663074 - 09/16/19 11:29 AM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: bonefish]
Versatile Dog Offline

Legend

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 43012
Good points.

I worry because Monken's offense in TB was a big-play, high-risk offense that didn't run the ball much and gave up a lot of QB pressures and committed too many turnovers.

I hope we go back to doing more of what we did last year.
_________________________
#GotRealPlayers

Top
#1663075 - 09/16/19 11:34 AM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Versatile Dog]
Ballpeen Offline

Legend

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 27693
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
I know most of the board doesn't think the scheme and personnel packages are a big deal, but there are some former NFL guys who agree w/me.

I was listening to the show w/Rex Ryan, Tedi Bruschi, Moss, and M. Hassleback yesterday and they were discussing how the scheme really hurt the Browns last Sunday. The plays were slow-developing and that is what caused a lot of the pressure on Baker. They were talking about how OBJ and Landry were actually open and that we should get them the ball quicker and let them do their thing. Rex said there was a lot of pressure on Freddie to get this fixed.

Moss was sent to Cleveland to have a sit-down w/OBJ and Landry. They showed a brief clip and that is what got the discussion started. They are going to show the full interview tonight. I think coverage starts at 6:00, if anyone is interested.

Freddie will take the heat and he is the HC. But, I think this change in philosophy is from Monken. I just don't think our OL and Baker are ready for such a scheme. And I also believe this will be one of the most important decisions we make in regards to our success this season.



No doubt Monken has had input. He isn't calling plays, so he has to be doing something else.

Just because we have OBJ doesn't mean he needs to be the focus of the O. We need to do a better job of taking what is given.

It is critical about what we plan to do because we MUST win this game because winning 1 of the next 2 is going to be a chore.
_________________________
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

GM Strong





Top
#1663078 - 09/16/19 11:51 AM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Ballpeen]
bonefish Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 5499
Loc: Reno, Nevada

As the season unfolds at least from my perspective; I see lots of good players on every team. Parity is a fact. Yes there will be bottom feeders. Teams in transition or looking for a quarterback. But there are a lot of teams that are not separated by much.

A team has to execute. The first week saw many teams playing sloppy ball. Lots of penalties not just in our game.

Pre-season is a joke. Coaches are paranoid of injury. And they have a right to feel that way. So come the first week most teams are not ready. The ones who have continuity (which often means success) are ahead of the others.

We need to win some of these early games and improve along the way.

Top
#1663090 - 09/16/19 12:14 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Versatile Dog]
FATE Online   content

Dawg Talker

Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 2177
Loc: Champion, OH!
Just my opinion, but I could see this as a logical way things may have progressed to this point.

In short...
Monken is pretty well respected for his offensive "prowess". Freddie hires him with the caveat that he will be calling plays. The compromise is the agreement to install Monken's offense. The offense stalls week one and the NFL applies a sense of urgency like no other league. Freddie says things need to be "dialed back" immediately to put Baker and the OLine in a position to succeed. He assures Monken that nothing is being scrapped but a happy medium is needed until we see the consistent, high-powered offensive output that the talent dictates we should expect.

We'll find out how true this may or may not be in a few hours. wink
_________________________
HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!

Top
#1663123 - 09/16/19 12:54 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: FATE]
bonefish Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 5499
Loc: Reno, Nevada

Good take.

I just want the team to eliminate mistakes. Play a clean game.

You expect some mistakes especially the way the refs are calling some of the new rules? Sometimes I feel like "what is going on"?

What I expected to see was defensive pressure on the quarterback.

Offensive unpredictability. Based upon multiple offensive options.

At least that is what I want to see.

Top
#1663135 - 09/16/19 01:04 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: cfrs15]
Niolen Offline
Rookie

Registered: 12/17/18
Posts: 56
Salient point.

Like I said in a previous post, I think the likeliest culprit for the Rams-esque reliance on 11 personnel is a lack of trust in the tight ends, and I canít really fault the coaching staff for that. I donít trust Demetrius Harris or Pharaoh Brown, either.

But I think the blending of Kitchenís and Monkenís philosophies could be part of the problem, too. In 2018, the Buccaneers spent 70% of their time in 11 personnel. And, out of 11 personnel, they had a 70-30 pass-run split with 8.4 YPA and 4.4 YPC. They spent only 17% of their time in 12 personnel and 2% of their time in 13 personnel despite having O.J. Howard and Cameron Brate as options at tight end.

Once Kitchens took over, the Browns spent 55% of their time in 11 personnel. Out of 11 personnel, the Browns had a 72-28 pass-run split with 8.6 YPA and 5.2 YPC. But the Browns spent 18% of their time in 12 personnel and 16% of their time in 13 personnel. In such scenarios, the Browns were more effective than the Buccaneers at running the ball, and much more effective passing the ball. The Browns were 44-of-57 for 585 yards with 4 touchdowns and 1 interception in heavy formations.

That said, I expect we will know more about our offensive scheme after tonight. I anticipate Gregg Williams is going to dial up frequent blitzes/man coverage and challenge our offensive line and receiving options. Weíll see how Kitchens and Monken respond. If itís heavier personnel or faster-developing route combinations.

Top
#1663150 - 09/16/19 01:37 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Niolen]
Versatile Dog Offline

Legend

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 43012
Thanks for providing the personnel percentages. I love stats like that.
_________________________
#GotRealPlayers

Top
#1663220 - 09/16/19 03:39 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Versatile Dog]
Spiritbro77 Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 09/17/07
Posts: 5697
I hope Baker doesn't throw more than 25 times. We need to run the ball early and often. With Baker under center. Then hit them with the play-action. I hope we give them a huge dose of Chubb tonight. Just line up and punch them in the mouth. But we have an OC that loves the air-raid so I don't expect to see that.
_________________________
Bought my first Jersey since the return! #80 Jarvis Landry
Can't wait for this season to start! Go Browns!

Top
#1663221 - 09/16/19 03:44 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Versatile Dog]
THROW LONG Online   content

Hall of Famer

Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 7027
I want to see 30+ combined running plays, even if they're going for 1.x years per carry.

Get back to fundamentals, and fundamental #1 is run the ball,


If they can do that, they'll have a chance to win the game, slow the game down, get greater time of possession, and eliminate the two bad possible outcomes of a passing play,

If they can't do that, or make progress toward it, then it's time to consider taking offensive playcalling duties away from the head coach.

The 2 minute offense is called that for a reason, it's only supposed to be gone to in the last 2 minutes of a game or half.


If they come out, and run the 2 minute offense in the first 5 minutes of the first quarter tonight, and every game,

then this team will lose 10 times.

3rd and 7, Run the ball
3rd and 8, Run the ball
3rd and 16, Run the b-play action pass.

1st and 25, RUN THE BALL!

Top
#1663228 - 09/16/19 04:08 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Versatile Dog]
SuperBrown Offline

Dawg Talker

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 2418
Loc: Birmingham, Alabama
I hope this weeks offensive scheme is not another clown show:

_________________________


Freddie Isn't Ready!

Top
#1663231 - 09/16/19 04:12 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: SuperBrown]
leadtheway Offline

Legend

Registered: 03/13/08
Posts: 13942
Loc: Ohio/Florida
Originally Posted By: SuperBrown
I hope this weeks offensive scheme is not another clown show:



sign that cart immediately.. Look at those broken tackles and yards after contact
_________________________
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne

Top
#1663251 - 09/16/19 04:26 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: THROW LONG]
bonefish Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 5499
Loc: Reno, Nevada

General comment. Not directed at anyone.

Some of what I hear from "analysts" and read from a variety of sources including this Board makes my head spin.

The Ravens have won two games. Lamar has looked good. Now, he might be the best quarterback in the 2018 draft. And will be in the MVP discussion this year.

The Ravens played the Dolphins and the Cardinals.

One example of many over reactions. The list is long.

It isn't just things like that. It is also the consistent misunderstanding of what actually takes place.

I completely understand how head coaches cringe about responding to questions from the media.

I am not involved in professional football in any capacity. I don't pretend to be a genius. I did play. I have coached baseball. However, I have watched football for over 60 years. It is not nuclear physics. You don't need a Phd. to play the game.

Yet, some of the stuff that comes out makes me wonder how in the world do people see things.

Top
#1663258 - 09/16/19 04:33 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: bonefish]
SuperBrown Offline

Dawg Talker

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 2418
Loc: Birmingham, Alabama
Originally Posted By: bonefish

Lamar has looked good. Now, he might be the best quarterback in the 2018 draft.


Hold on there little doggy.
_________________________


Freddie Isn't Ready!

Top
#1663304 - 09/16/19 06:04 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: SuperBrown]
bonefish Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 5499
Loc: Reno, Nevada

You did read I used that as an example of things I have heard and that was what I felt to be a over reaction?

You understand that correct?

Top
#1663951 - 09/16/19 09:58 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Versatile Dog]
mgh888 Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 4390
Need better balance. Still pass happy at the half way mark.

Top
#1664063 - 09/16/19 10:20 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Versatile Dog]
PastorMarc Offline

Legend

Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 10155
Run Chubb
_________________________
2 TIMOTHY 3:1 "But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come.Ē (NKJV)

Top
#1664079 - 09/16/19 10:23 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Versatile Dog]
PastorMarc Offline

Legend

Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 10155
This what happens when our offense doesn't move the ball
_________________________
2 TIMOTHY 3:1 "But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come.Ē (NKJV)

Top
#1664087 - 09/16/19 10:25 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Versatile Dog]
s003apr Offline

Practice Squad

Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 172
I think the safety we took last week says it all.
1st and 11 on the 2 yard line.
Every receiver runs straight up field past the 15 and out of camera.

Top
#1664088 - 09/16/19 10:25 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Versatile Dog]
PastorMarc Offline

Legend

Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 10155
Stopped
_________________________
2 TIMOTHY 3:1 "But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come.Ē (NKJV)

Top
#1664092 - 09/16/19 10:27 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Versatile Dog]
PastorMarc Offline

Legend

Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 10155
Come on move the ball run Chubb
_________________________
2 TIMOTHY 3:1 "But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come.Ē (NKJV)

Top
#1664105 - 09/16/19 10:29 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Versatile Dog]
PastorMarc Offline

Legend

Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 10155
TOUCHDOWN BROWNS!!!!!!!!
_________________________
2 TIMOTHY 3:1 "But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come.Ē (NKJV)

Top
#1664110 - 09/16/19 10:29 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Versatile Dog]
PastorMarc Offline

Legend

Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 10155
OBJ
_________________________
2 TIMOTHY 3:1 "But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come.Ē (NKJV)

Top
#1664410 - 09/17/19 08:11 AM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Versatile Dog]
Versatile Dog Offline

Legend

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 43012
Interested to see the percentage of the personnel packages. We mixed it up more last night, but I still want to see the breakdown.
_________________________
#GotRealPlayers

Top
#1664412 - 09/17/19 08:16 AM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Versatile Dog]
Dawgs4Life Online   content

Legend

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 45739
Loc: Edinboro, PA
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Interested to see the percentage of the personnel packages. We mixed it up more last night, but I still want to see the breakdown.
Yeah, I noticed us mixing it up too .. I tried to keep track of how many TEís we were using. I think itíll be a bit more evened out this week (especially without Higgins probably).

Obviously the big drawback is our TEís are quite bad, and itís even worse when Njoku came out
_________________________
"First down as we threaten again. A score here puts us in the Super Bowl. Odell is far to the left as Landry settles into the slot. Njoku is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Hunt are split in the backfield as Baker takes the snap ... Here we go."

Top
#1664416 - 09/17/19 08:20 AM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Dawgs4Life]
Versatile Dog Offline

Legend

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 43012
I noticed that we had 3 TEs in the game at the same time late in the game.
_________________________
#GotRealPlayers

Top
#1664490 - 09/17/19 11:32 AM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: Versatile Dog]
cfrs15 Offline

Legend

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 34408
Loc: Monrovia, Ca

Top
#1664491 - 09/17/19 11:34 AM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: cfrs15]
cfrs15 Offline

Legend

Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 34408
Loc: Monrovia, Ca
Presnap motion is like getting some answers to the test prior to the test. It often reveals whether the defense is in man or zone and/or who is blitzing.

I feel like we haven't used much presnap motion so far this season. Has anyone noticed anything?

Top
#1664492 - 09/17/19 11:37 AM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: cfrs15]
BustkeviousMingo Offline
1st String

Registered: 09/27/15
Posts: 373
Loc: Mingoville
It's hard to use pre-snap motion when we are constantly getting to the line late in the play clock and snapping the ball with 1 second left on the play clock
_________________________
"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." - Winston Churchill

Top
#1664505 - 09/17/19 12:14 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: BustkeviousMingo]
Dawgs4Life Online   content

Legend

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 45739
Loc: Edinboro, PA
Bingo .. Baker canít even freaking get 2 seconds most time .. heís hurrying, hurrying ... snapping, then just reacting lol
Originally Posted By: BustkeviousMingo
It's hard to use pre-snap motion when we are constantly getting to the line late in the play clock and snapping the ball with 1 second left on the play clock
_________________________
"First down as we threaten again. A score here puts us in the Super Bowl. Odell is far to the left as Landry settles into the slot. Njoku is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Hunt are split in the backfield as Baker takes the snap ... Here we go."

Top
#1664512 - 09/17/19 12:24 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: cfrs15]
DCDAWGFAN Offline

Legend

Registered: 09/12/06
Posts: 37769
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Presnap motion is like getting some answers to the test prior to the test. It often reveals whether the defense is in man or zone and/or who is blitzing.

I feel like we haven't used much presnap motion so far this season. Has anyone noticed anything?

Like others, I've noticed that we are getting to the line with :05 on the play clock.. no time for motion, no time to get a good presnap read, no time to change the play...
_________________________
Credibility = Proven Competence + Integrity + Relationships

Top
#1664547 - 09/17/19 01:20 PM Re: Offensive Scheme [Re: cfrs15]
Versatile Dog Offline

Legend

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 43012
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Presnap motion is like getting some answers to the test prior to the test. It often reveals whether the defense is in man or zone and/or who is blitzing.

I feel like we haven't used much presnap motion so far this season. Has anyone noticed anything?


Good point. I remember one of the announcers during the preseason pointing out how much motion Freddie ran last year after he took over. And you are right, we haven't seem it much this year.

I have concerns over Monken's influence and I don't think we're built for 11 Personnel considering our OTs and QB.

I'm still hoping someone will post the percentages on last nights game. It was better than week one, but I would like to see the specifics.
_________________________
#GotRealPlayers

Top
Page 2 of 10 < 1 2 3 4 ... 9 10 >