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#1661415 - 09/12/19 11:02 AM Re: More Postgame Thoughts [Re: WSU Willie]
MemphisBrownie Offline

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It's truly remarkable when one poster can be so wrong about so many things Browns-related and then have the nerve to tell someone "When you have no idea what your talking about...." and finish with "....someone who does."

rofl
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#1661416 - 09/12/19 11:02 AM Re: More Postgame Thoughts [Re: WSU Willie]
Versatile Dog Offline

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You're wrong.
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#1661417 - 09/12/19 11:03 AM Re: More Postgame Thoughts [Re: MemphisBrownie]
Versatile Dog Offline

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So stop.
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#1661420 - 09/12/19 11:07 AM Re: More Postgame Thoughts [Re: Versatile Dog]
PrplPplEater Offline

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
I also believe that they are facing exaggerated scorn after the loss.


Mmmm, yes and no, in my opinion.

By and large, the root of almost ALL of our problems was, in one way or another, the OL. Be it penalties, the injury, the stupid ejection, the sacks, hurries and pressures given up, the run plays stuffed, etc.... no matter how you slice it, they were NOT up to snuff. Good plays by them were the anomaly; the plays where you couldn't help but be aware of them were constant and consistent.
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#1661421 - 09/12/19 11:09 AM Re: More Postgame Thoughts [Re: PrplPplEater]
Versatile Dog Offline

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I agree that they they didn't play well. I said so several times. I said "exaggerated scorn" or something like that.

But yes, they did not play well for the reasons you mentioned. I would add scheme to your list.
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#1661423 - 09/12/19 11:17 AM Re: More Postgame Thoughts [Re: Versatile Dog]
WSU Willie Offline

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
That's true.

Additionally, the Titans called for a lot of pass plays that developed quicker and Mariotta was able to quickly check down or throw it away at times when he was pressured.

I know our DL has been getting some heat on this board and probably other places that cover the Browns, but I thought they looked pretty good while rushing the passer in the opener.


I agree. I would change "at times" to "regularly"...like 21 of 25 passes. Their game plan was to check down and beat us with their RBs and TEs.

Quote:
Contrarily, while I thought our OL played poorly, I also believe that they are facing exaggerated scorn after the loss.


I agree again. The OL DID play poorly. Our god-awful RT became out LT at halftime and a new guy - a G signed last week - became our RT. Our scheme sucked and didn't get adjusted. Baker was harassed a lot and acted like he was being harassed sometimes when he wasn't. They looked ill-prepared and shot themselves in the foot more than imaginable.

The OL was ok to good-enough before Robinson's stupidity...even given the number of penalties that put us in a hole.

I think it's disingenuous of anyone to put significant blame on the OL - or any other position group - without mentioning all the other things that contributed to our incompetence. (Not saying YOU are doing that.)
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#1661428 - 09/12/19 11:33 AM Re: More Postgame Thoughts [Re: WSU Willie]
PitDAWG Offline

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You can slice it and dice it any way you want to. The OL didn't throw 3 int's. in the fourth quarter.

Now I'm not lambasting Baker for that. He's a guy who feels he needs to carry this team. This isn't a normal performance for him and everybody has an off day. Pressure was being applied and he's still very young.

But you need to quit pretending he didn't play an important part in the loss.
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#1661434 - 09/12/19 11:48 AM Re: More Postgame Thoughts [Re: PitDAWG]
Homewood Dog Offline

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I'll agree we didn't play well but a lot of it has to do with the Titans. It seems like we may have taken them a bit lightly but IMO they are a better team than everyone is giving them credit for. They may be a surprise team in the AFC. IMO the only team in the AFC that's better than them is the Pats whom they beat last year. They have a good D, can run the ball, have some skilled players on O and most importantly, are very welled coached. Vrabel is a good coach. JMO

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#1661466 - 09/12/19 01:03 PM Re: More Postgame Thoughts [Re: Homewood Dog]
rastanplan Offline

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Originally Posted By: Homewood Dog
I'll agree we didn't play well but a lot of it has to do with the Titans. It seems like we may have taken them a bit lightly but IMO they are a better team than everyone is giving them credit for. They may be a surprise team in the AFC. IMO the only team in the AFC that's better than them is the Pats whom they beat last year. They have a good D, can run the ball, have some skilled players on O and most importantly, are very welled coached. Vrabel is a good coach. JMO


Most of it had to do with our D melting on the first plays of the game...

O was shaken with the penalties,at least I hope that was the cause,if not Kitchens is in a bad bad position...

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#1661473 - 09/12/19 01:18 PM Re: More Postgame Thoughts [Re: PitDAWG]
WSU Willie Offline

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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
You can slice it and dice it any way you want to. The OL didn't throw 3 int's. in the fourth quarter.

Now I'm not lambasting Baker for that. He's a guy who feels he needs to carry this team. This isn't a normal performance for him and everybody has an off day. Pressure was being applied and he's still very young.

But you need to quit pretending he didn't play an important part in the loss.


Where did I say Baker DIDN'T play an important part in the loss?

You are making a point with completely false information.
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My New Year's resolution...forget the past...except for the spot in the Raider's game...the inexplicable decision to not give Baker ANY 1st team reps in camp...and not playing Chubb until it was forced upon them. I'm sure I'll let more slip in here tho.

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#1661476 - 09/12/19 01:29 PM Re: More Postgame Thoughts [Re: WSU Willie]
PitDAWG Offline

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Oh, I didn't say you didn't "think" Baker had a bad game, it's just that I've certainly witnessed posts that point the finger at everyone but Baker.

The Titans scored 21 points off of those three int's.

Maybe I missed where you pointed that out?
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#1661878 - 09/13/19 07:54 AM Re: More Postgame Thoughts [Re: PitDAWG]
WSU Willie Offline

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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Oh, I didn't say you didn't "think" Baker had a bad game, it's just that I've certainly witnessed posts that point the finger at everyone but Baker.

The Titans scored 21 points off of those three int's.

Maybe I missed where you pointed that out?


Seeing as how we lost by 30, I didn't figure you'd need me to do a math exercise for you. My bad. rolleyes

Not to mention that the game essentially ended after the Henry TD.

Did you see who played LT for us in the 2nd half? That's quite a bit more important and telling than the fact that 7x3=21. FWIW, look at my recent post where I talked about Baker feeling pressure that wasn't there.
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My New Year's resolution...forget the past...except for the spot in the Raider's game...the inexplicable decision to not give Baker ANY 1st team reps in camp...and not playing Chubb until it was forced upon them. I'm sure I'll let more slip in here tho.

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#1662005 - 09/13/19 10:57 AM Re: More Postgame Thoughts [Re: WSU Willie]
PitDAWG Offline

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Mmmmm hmmmmm....
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#1662054 - 09/13/19 12:35 PM Re: More Postgame Thoughts [Re: GratefulDawg]
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#1662061 - 09/13/19 12:55 PM Re: More Postgame Thoughts [Re: GratefulDawg]
CapCity Dawg Offline

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Originally Posted By: GratefulDawg


So it begins again. How many of these notices did we have last year?
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#1662066 - 09/13/19 01:05 PM Re: More Postgame Thoughts [Re: GratefulDawg]
Rishuz Online   content

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What a shocker.

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#1662074 - 09/13/19 01:25 PM Re: More Postgame Thoughts [Re: GratefulDawg]
PrplPplEater Offline

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One in every Opener, it seems.
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#1662098 - 09/13/19 02:17 PM Re: More Postgame Thoughts [Re: GratefulDawg]
Dawgs4Life Offline

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Wow, Iím surprised we got screwed on a call
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#1662150 - 09/13/19 05:29 PM Re: More Postgame Thoughts [Re: GratefulDawg]
Clemdawg Offline

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Originally Posted By: GratefulDawg


And so it begins anew in 2019.

New season- just like the old season.


What chafes me the most is not that these calls happen- it's when these calls happen. Inevitably, they happen on pivotal momentum-changing plays that significantly impact the flow/momentum of the game.

Browns have fielded mediocre to poor teams for forever, and ref's calls like these impact poor teams more than good. Good teams find a way to overcome bad calls; bad teams are victimized by them.

Last Sunday, this current Browns team looked every bit as bad as previous squads... and the ref calls hurt us in much the same way.

I expressed fatigue and exasperation last year about the endless cycle of bad call > Browns loss > Wed apology. I know that one game does not indicate a trend, but I'm already sensitive to this... and it's way too early in the season for this level of apprehension.


.02

p.s. I am definitely NOT saying that the refs are officiating wint an anti-Browns bias/agenda. NOT.
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#1662169 - 09/13/19 06:55 PM Re: More Postgame Thoughts [Re: CapCity Dawg]
FL_Dawg Offline

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So, that play was about a 30 yard(?) net loss for us and took away a 1st down.
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#1662184 - 09/13/19 07:44 PM Re: More Postgame Thoughts [Re: FL_Dawg]
Clemdawg Offline

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yup.

bad call/bad time.

One of a series of back breakers.
Browns beat themselves, but they weren't helped by stellar officiating.
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#1662190 - 09/13/19 07:53 PM Re: More Postgame Thoughts [Re: FL_Dawg]
Rishuz Online   content

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Originally Posted By: FL_Dawg
So, that play was about a 30 yard(?) net loss for us and took away a 1st down.


The play put us in comfortable FG position before the half.

The penalty knocked us out.

Prior to OBJ pushing off, the DB should have been called for defensive holding.

The ref was looking right at the play. The Tennessee DB lobbied for a flag. The ref obliged. As they did most of the game.

Still the Browns are soft. Shouldn't have let it affect them the way it did.

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#1662194 - 09/13/19 08:03 PM Re: More Postgame Thoughts [Re: CapCity Dawg]
Versatile Dog Offline

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Originally Posted By: CapCity Dawg
Originally Posted By: GratefulDawg


So it begins again. How many of these notices did we have last year?


Cap, you are a reasonable guy......so I will ask you. Do you think these notices of incorrect calls are limited to the Browns or do you think the NFL issues to them to teams across the league on a fairly regular basis? Also, do you think fans across the league are complaining in a similar fashion as Brown's fans are?

Sorry guys, bad calls happen. There is too much money, too many eyes, and too much at stake for the NFL to resort to such biased officiating.

Man up!
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#1662241 - 09/13/19 11:10 PM Re: More Postgame Thoughts [Re: Versatile Dog]
CapCity Dawg Offline

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Originally Posted By: CapCity Dawg
Originally Posted By: GratefulDawg


So it begins again. How many of these notices did we have last year?


Cap, you are a reasonable guy......so I will ask you. Do you think these notices of incorrect calls are limited to the Browns or do you think the NFL issues to them to teams across the league on a fairly regular basis? Also, do you think fans across the league are complaining in a similar fashion as Brown's fans are?

Sorry guys, bad calls happen. There is too much money, too many eyes, and too much at stake for the NFL to resort to such biased officiating.

Man up!


I am sure we are not the only team who gets these notices, and I am sure all fans complain about calls. What I donít know is how many teams receive these in a week, and how many a team receive in a season. So I do not where we stand.

Yes, bad calls happen. I get that. Last week was frustrating. We had enough legitimate calls, we did not an extra.
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#1662258 - 09/13/19 11:49 PM Re: More Postgame Thoughts [Re: Dawgs4Life]
SuperBrown Offline

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Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
Wow, Iím surprised we got screwed on a call


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#1662283 - 09/14/19 07:34 AM Re: More Postgame Thoughts [Re: Clemdawg]
WSU Willie Offline

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Originally Posted By: Clemdawg
Originally Posted By: GratefulDawg


And so it begins anew in 2019.

New season- just like the old season.


What chafes me the most is not that these calls happen- it's when these calls happen. Inevitably, they happen on pivotal momentum-changing plays that significantly impact the flow/momentum of the game.

Browns have fielded mediocre to poor teams for forever, and ref's calls like these impact poor teams more than good. Good teams find a way to overcome bad calls; bad teams are victimized by them.

Last Sunday, this current Browns team looked every bit as bad as previous squads... and the ref calls hurt us in much the same way.

I expressed fatigue and exasperation last year about the endless cycle of bad call > Browns loss > Wed apology. I know that one game does not indicate a trend, but I'm already sensitive to this... and it's way too early in the season for this level of apprehension.


.02

p.s. I am definitely NOT saying that the refs are officiating wint an anti-Browns bias/agenda. NOT.


I agree. I'll add my issue with non-calls as well...I think TN was called for ONE holding play Sunday on a play when MG totally abused the LT for a sack. That's it...one. They got away with hooking and hands to the face on the OL...and we got caught when we retaliated for their dirty play. Their CBs as well. There were two sets of rules on the field last week.

We've been getting hosed ever since Zeus knocked that cheater Triplette on his butt and Bottlegate. I sit and watch Browns games - and others usually six at a time - and the non-Browns fans comment on how uneven the officiating often is in a Browns game. It's not coming just from Orange & Brown goggles.
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My New Year's resolution...forget the past...except for the spot in the Raider's game...the inexplicable decision to not give Baker ANY 1st team reps in camp...and not playing Chubb until it was forced upon them. I'm sure I'll let more slip in here tho.

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#1662289 - 09/14/19 08:35 AM Re: More Postgame Thoughts [Re: CapCity Dawg]
Versatile Dog Offline

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Cap, I chose you to respond to because you are more reasonable and logical than some of the others who have been complaining about the officiating. So, I hope I did not offend you.

Think about this. Mistakes are made in a game that is played at an extremely fast speed. QBs throw into coverage and make inaccurate throws. Receivers run incorrect routes and drop passes. RBs hit the wrong hole and fumble. Defensive players miss tackles and blow coverages. Many more mistake occur, but I limited them to two per group. The other night B. Arians called back-to-back timeouts resulting in a penalty. He also didn't challenge an obvious incorrect spot on a 4th down play that resulted in a first down. And he is a very experienced and good coach.

Thus, it is reasonable to recognize that human officials are also going to make mistakes. Bad calls happen in every game. They occur against all teams. This is nothing new to anyone who has ever played or coached or officiated.

What is happening on this board is that it is a community of fans of one particular team. They are innately going to be critical of all calls that go against them and not pay much attention to the calls they do get. I'm certain that fans of all teams have similar judgements. I have said that some of my family members are Steeler fans. On this board, I read how the Steelers always get the calls, yet my family members claim that the Steelers always are on the short end of the proverbial officiating stick. It's perception, Cap.

Thus, what I am saying is that we did have bad calls go against us in that game. However, we were the beneficiary of bad calls that went against the Titans. In the last several years, I can really think of only one game where I felt the officiating cost us the game. That was the Raider game last year. The quick whistle on the Myles Garrett sack cost us a TD and the poor spot and subsequent review on Hyde's run that should have been a first down and sealed the victory, did indeed cost us the game. Other than that, I have watched games that contained mistakes by officials, but those calls typically balance out.
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#1662342 - 09/14/19 12:48 PM Re: More Postgame Thoughts [Re: Versatile Dog]
DevilDawg2847 Offline

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Cap, I chose you to respond to because you are more reasonable and logical than some of the others who have been complaining about the officiating. So, I hope I did not offend you.

Think about this. Mistakes are made in a game that is played at an extremely fast speed. QBs throw into coverage and make inaccurate throws. Receivers run incorrect routes and drop passes. RBs hit the wrong hole and fumble. Defensive players miss tackles and blow coverages. Many more mistake occur, but I limited them to two per group. The other night B. Arians called back-to-back timeouts resulting in a penalty. He also didn't challenge an obvious incorrect spot on a 4th down play that resulted in a first down. And he is a very experienced and good coach.

Thus, it is reasonable to recognize that human officials are also going to make mistakes. Bad calls happen in every game. They occur against all teams. This is nothing new to anyone who has ever played or coached or officiated.

What is happening on this board is that it is a community of fans of one particular team. They are innately going to be critical of all calls that go against them and not pay much attention to the calls they do get. I'm certain that fans of all teams have similar judgements. I have said that some of my family members are Steeler fans. On this board, I read how the Steelers always get the calls, yet my family members claim that the Steelers always are on the short end of the proverbial officiating stick. It's perception, Cap.

Thus, what I am saying is that we did have bad calls go against us in that game. However, we were the beneficiary of bad calls that went against the Titans. In the last several years, I can really think of only one game where I felt the officiating cost us the game. That was the Raider game last year. The quick whistle on the Myles Garrett sack cost us a TD and the poor spot and subsequent review on Hyde's run that should have been a first down and sealed the victory, did indeed cost us the game. Other than that, I have watched games that contained mistakes by officials, but those calls typically balance out.


If I may chime in...

FWIW I don't buy in to the conspiracy theory... especially not at this point because with the star power on our roster the NFL stands to make waaaay more $$$ with a successful Browns franchise than an unsuccessful.

Having said that, obviously mistakes will be made in officiating. I think what contributes to the view of bias against the Browns is that the poor officiating rarely seems to be consistent within that game.

While I don't think there is a conspiracy, I do think it has often been lopsided. How do I reconcile that concept? Pretty simple:

For years the Browns weren't taken seriously. Other teams viewed them as a gimme. We didn't have the best announcers and on occasion you had announcers who didn't really care enough to correctly identify Browns players... so why would it be out of the realm of possibility to think that referees might also have that same view of the Browns?

We expect our refs to be professionals, but human nature says if you don't take something seriously you don't perform to the best of your ability.
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#1662351 - 09/14/19 01:24 PM Re: More Postgame Thoughts [Re: GratefulDawg]
Bull_Dawg Offline
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Are people inherently biased against the color Brown?

History is great and all, but it might be time for a serious rebranding if it is affecting outcomes.

"Browns" has always been a somewhat different team name choice.

The history can still be embraced, memorialized, etc. Brown and orange is a terrible color combo outside of the nostalgia.



Edited by Bull_Dawg (09/14/19 01:25 PM)
Edit Reason: Trying to keep the racism angle out of a football thread
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#1662352 - 09/14/19 01:28 PM Re: More Postgame Thoughts [Re: Versatile Dog]
CapCity Dawg Offline

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I donít disagree with anything you said. And I took no offense with it.

And I did not mean to imply that I thought the referees cost us the game, if it came out that way.
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#1662360 - 09/14/19 02:51 PM Re: More Postgame Thoughts [Re: DevilDawg2847]
Rishuz Online   content

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That was a way better synopsis than Vers' very black and white view of things.

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#1662382 - 09/14/19 04:26 PM Re: More Postgame Thoughts [Re: Rishuz]
Versatile Dog Offline

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Thanks Rish. Always making things personal.
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#1662393 - 09/14/19 04:41 PM Re: More Postgame Thoughts [Re: GratefulDawg]
GratefulDawg Online   content

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Myles Garrett was fined $10,527 by NFL for unnecessary roughness. Delivered palm strike to face mask of #Titans TE Delanie Walker

Sheldon Richardson was fined $21,056 by NFL for roughing the passer. He pushed down #Titans QB Marcus Mariota

Devaroe Lawrence was fined $28,075 by NFL for verbal abuse directed at an official. Lawrence said he cursed at an official after the official used an expletive while speaking to him.

Greg Robinson was fined $10,527 by NFL for unnecessary roughness. He kicked #Titans safety Kenny Vaccaro in helmet in the second quarter. Robinson was not fined for his blindside block in the first quarter


Derrick Henry fined $10,527 by NFL for unnecessary roughness vs. #Browns He had a face mask penalty in fourth quarter.

https://twitter.com/ByNateUlrich
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#1662401 - 09/14/19 04:49 PM Re: More Postgame Thoughts [Re: GratefulDawg]
Versatile Dog Offline

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I think there was a case for throwing Myles out of the game. That was pretty blatant.

The team lacked discipline and were mentally weak in game one. I hope they improve on that aspect.
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#1662417 - 09/14/19 05:20 PM Re: More Postgame Thoughts [Re: Versatile Dog]
DevilDawg2847 Offline

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
I think there was a case for throwing Myles out of the game. That was pretty blatant.

The team lacked discipline and were mentally weak in game one. I hope they improve on that aspect.


I don't know if it would have warranted that, but at the very least it should have been one of those where he's also put on notice any further similar penalties would result in ejection.
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#1662421 - 09/14/19 05:26 PM Re: More Postgame Thoughts [Re: DevilDawg2847]
Versatile Dog Offline

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Yeah, it was close. I love Myles Garrett. I saw that play and I immediately thought he was gone and my heart sank, but fortunately, they did not throw him out.
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#1662427 - 09/14/19 05:43 PM Re: More Postgame Thoughts [Re: Versatile Dog]
lampdogg Offline

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Wasn't a closed fist, but still border-line.
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#1662479 - 09/14/19 08:54 PM Re: More Postgame Thoughts [Re: Versatile Dog]
Rishuz Online   content

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Loc: Las Vegas
That wasn't personal. You view things in a very black and white manner based on your own moral compass. That's not a personal slight. That's an observation based on your posts over the years.

A lot of issues just aren't black and white. They have many shades of gray and are very nuanced. You don't allow for those elements. That's part of what makes Vers Vers. Again, not a slight; more of stating the obvious.

And I'll respond to your PM at some point. Haven't had a chance yet.

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#1662484 - 09/14/19 09:14 PM Re: More Postgame Thoughts [Re: Rishuz]
Versatile Dog Offline

Legend

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 42990
No need to respond to the PM.

My post was not black and white. I tried using logic and reason. You ignored all of that. Of course, that is your right. We see things differently. I just don't understand why you could not have simply complimented Devil w/out dragging my name into it? It was a slight. That's fine. It's best if I move on.
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#GotRealPlayers

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#1662527 - 09/14/19 11:07 PM Re: More Postgame Thoughts [Re: GratefulDawg]
SuperBrown Offline

Dawg Talker

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 2418
Loc: Birmingham, Alabama
Those are major bucks right there.

If those fined players sent me that money, I could survive without working for 5 years.
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Freddie Isn't Ready!

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