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#1707390 - 12/15/19 09:25 PM Re: Post game. [Re: Swish]
jaybird Offline

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Posts: 10631
Unreal...thought we'd win today and get toasted next week... we're not winning another game this year..

Defense was pushed around... passing game was average... how many passes will OBj drop this year.....Chubb is the man....best part of this team...
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#1707393 - 12/15/19 09:35 PM Re: Post game. [Re: jaybird]
Clemdawg Offline

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When I watched AZ march right down the field on their opening drive, I knew the game was already lost. It wasn't the score. It was CLE's body language. They played like they didn't want to be in the NFL.

When a team gives up on its playoff hopes in the 1st quarter of a must-win December game, that's as ugly as it gets.

That's the bad news.

The good news: I was able to decorate my Christmas tree from start to finish this afternoon. I had a great time with My Hunny, and the tree looks good, too.

More good news: My Sundays are my own again. I no longer feel the need to have them held hostage by this loosely-associated collection of bums who dress alike and run around doing stuff for 3 hours per week.
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#1707394 - 12/15/19 09:37 PM Re: Post game. [Re: Clemdawg]
Milk Man Offline

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j/c...


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#1707395 - 12/15/19 09:37 PM Re: Post game. [Re: Milk Man]
Milk Man Offline

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#1707397 - 12/15/19 09:40 PM Re: Post game. [Re: ThomasE]
PDXBrownsFan Offline
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Originally Posted By: ThomasE
again with the 1-0 next week at FK's presser


23 sec into his post game presser and he says it. Yawn!

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#1707398 - 12/15/19 09:41 PM Re: Post game. [Re: Swish]
PrplPplEater Offline

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That was uninspiring to watch.

As lackluster as the offense was, the defense was worse.... but, when we're missing both our starting DEs in a scheme that requires that we get pressure, this is about what I would expect.

Again, I saw them run right into the gap just vacated by a DLine shooting to an inside gap where nobody backfilled.... and it gashed us. It's almost like it is by design.
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#1707400 - 12/15/19 09:53 PM Re: Post game. [Re: Swish]
FORTBROWNFAN Offline

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I can rest easy tonight knowing we now have "real Players" and what they mean to football success.

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#1707403 - 12/15/19 10:03 PM Re: Post game. [Re: Clemdawg]
bonefish Offline

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Didn't get to see the game. Was driving across the country. Heard about 3 quarters before I lost the signal.

Glad I didn't see it.

I saw the Cards play the 49ers. I just knew they were a bad match up for the Browns. Our defense can not handle that offense.

Not a surprise to me.

You give up 38 points to them; you have earned the loss.

Playoffs!?? Playoffs?!! Playoffs !!?

The Browns have not been a playoff caliber team all year.

The coaching staff has failed. There are no excuses to lose games like this, Denver, Steelers.

Poor team.

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#1707405 - 12/15/19 10:04 PM Re: Post game. [Re: Ballpeen]
Rishuz Offline

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Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Originally Posted By: Rishuz
Trash organization.

Trash coaches.

Trash players.

Trash team.

I knew they wouldn't win today.



No doubt you are the know it all.


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#1707411 - 12/15/19 10:12 PM Re: Post game. [Re: Swish]
Rishuz Offline

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j/c -

If you do not have serious concern over Baker right now, I don't know what to tell you. He's the worst QB in the NFL currently. And there is some trash out there.

No meaningful wins in two years. No playoffs in two years. Beat up on the dregs of the league last year. Gets beat up by the dregs of the league this year. 1:1 TD:Int ratio.

What I'm about to add is going to be an even more unpopular opinion that is sure to draw some harsh criticism (as if the above isn't), but unless you are one of the established dominant defenses in the league, you kind of go as your offense and QB go. Defensive effort reflects the belief that the offense will put up enough points to win the game and that effort will be rewarded. If Mayfield could have made any plays today to keep the game close, I think the defense would have been more inspired. But they knew he couldn't keep up.

This is why I said this year is all about Baker. If he takes a step forward, we would be enjoying a successful season. If he doesn't, well, this is what you get.

We are still searching for the franchise QB after all these years, including two years of tanking just to get the guy. Just sad.

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#1707414 - 12/15/19 10:19 PM Re: Post game. [Re: Rishuz]
Bard Dawg Offline

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The franchise QB seems to have abandoned us. Just inconsistent. How do you account for Chubb's success with this line? I can make no sense of a lot of what I see.

Today stunk and it was hard to watch. Angry players like we saw are welcome to me, at least somebody cares. Just lousy game again.
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#1707415 - 12/15/19 10:20 PM Re: Post game. [Re: Swish]
EveDawg Online   content

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I have all the support in the world for Baker. He has an exceptional skillset.

I feel our team was put at a serious disadvantage this year because of horrendous coaching. Baker included.

I wont judge him until AFTER this team has had a chance to play for new competant experienced coaches.

Two years ago we didnt have the talent to attract top coaches. But now we do. So I expect that we will get some qualifed candidates in the offseason.
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#1707416 - 12/15/19 10:23 PM Re: Post game. [Re: Milk Man]
Bard Dawg Offline

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I remember this one because I commented to my friend that the home run was there. Baker seems to pick who he is throwing to and misses some outside routes that are open.

Why? If he is seeing the field and looking around, then he should see it.
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#1707417 - 12/15/19 10:28 PM Re: Post game. [Re: EveDawg]
Swish Offline

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Man homegirl, I really hope your right.

I’ve been trying not to critique baker as harshly as I use to simply because Freddie is that bad. Freddie needs to go, but it will suck because that will mean baker in two seasons will then be on his 4th HC and 3rd OC.

We were sold on this basically being the same offensive scheme, with the only change that OBJ replaced Perriman and takes us to the next level.

But this scheme is nothing like what we ran last season at all.
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#1707418 - 12/15/19 10:31 PM Re: Post game. [Re: Bard Dawg]
lampdogg Offline

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Baker isn’t the problem.
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#1707419 - 12/15/19 10:39 PM Re: Post game. [Re: Swish]
EveDawg Online   content

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Is it really that difficult to change schemes and coaches?

Serious question.

I know people make a big deal about it.

Then I see examples like when Shanny came in here and had our O decent in less than a year with fricken Hoyer.
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#1707420 - 12/15/19 10:40 PM Re: Post game. [Re: Swish]
Rishuz Offline

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Originally Posted By: Swish
But this scheme is nothing like what we ran last season at all.


Maybe it's not all that different but teams caught up. It's a chess match. Ok, Baker let's see how you do when we switch to zone post snap. Your move.

When we watch games on TV, we only have the eye test and years and years of watching football, from great players to terrible players, to kind of gauge what we are seeing. Other than a strong arm and the willingness to push up the field and throw the ball more than 10 yards a handful of times a game, doesn't this feel just like any number of quarterbacks that have marched through here? Baker was simply horrendous today. He wasn't the only reason we lost, but he contributed a lot to it. This is game 14 of his second season with the best collection of skill players in the league. This feels bad. For as harsh as I am, I am even more concerned. Baker not panning out will be catastrophic.

Major regression in his second season. No signature wins that actually mean something. Worst rated QB in the league.

That's not all coaching.

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#1707421 - 12/15/19 10:44 PM Re: Post game. [Re: EveDawg]
Rishuz Offline

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Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Is it really that difficult to change schemes and coaches?

Serious question.

I know people make a big deal about it.

Then I see examples like when Shanny came in here and had our O decent in less than a year with fricken Hoyer.


Regardless of this question, you can't continue with Freddie. Too many players have regressed under his watch. Promising players don't get on the field or are traded. The team's best player acted like a knucklehead and seriously harmed the team. The team's "franchise" QB is the worst in the league after setting the rookie TD record.

You cannot continue with Freddie based on a "hope" that these things will get rectified. The list is too long and the damage caused is already too great. That's a lot to stake on hope.

I believe this will take care of itself in the form of double digit losses. We obviously will not win next week, and Cincy will be a repeat of today.

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#1707422 - 12/15/19 10:47 PM Re: Post game. [Re: EveDawg]
Swish Offline

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It’s a good question.

My uneducated opinion is that it depends on the coach and scheme. It’s difficult to go from a 4-3 to a 3-4, for example. Hell it requires different kind of players.

On offense, for the players actively learning the scheme it might not be a big deal or all that difficult.

I think what makes it difficult is the lack of continuity and always swapping it up. It also has to be a combination of changing scheme and coaches that makes it exhausting for players. How much motivation and such will you have to nail the scheme down if history has shown that you’re gonna have to learn a new one with a new coach the following season? That’s how you get players demanding trades or releases, and not being able to attract top tier coaches.

There always a catch to whatever we decide to do with this.
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#1707425 - 12/15/19 10:51 PM Re: Post game. [Re: Swish]
Milk Man Offline

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j/c...


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#1707429 - 12/15/19 10:59 PM Re: Post game. [Re: Rishuz]
Milk Man Offline

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Originally Posted By: Rishuz
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
Is it really that difficult to change schemes and coaches?

Serious question.

I know people make a big deal about it.

Then I see examples like when Shanny came in here and had our O decent in less than a year with fricken Hoyer.


Regardless of this question, you can't continue with Freddie. Too many players have regressed under his watch. Promising players don't get on the field or are traded. The team's best player acted like a knucklehead and seriously harmed the team. The team's "franchise" QB is the worst in the league after setting the rookie TD record.

You cannot continue with Freddie based on a "hope" that these things will get rectified. The list is too long and the damage caused is already too great. That's a lot to stake on hope.

I believe this will take care of itself in the form of double digit losses. We obviously will not win next week, and Cincy will be a repeat of today.


Yep. I'll repost this again b/c it seems so relevant to the Browns' current fiasco...


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#1707430 - 12/15/19 11:02 PM Re: Post game. [Re: Milk Man]
tastybrownies Offline

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How is that possible that the defense knows that we'll what the offense in a professional system is going to do?

Also saw this video, and I know it has MKC in it but she mentioned a blurb about seeing Haslem and Dorsey and they didn't look happy. What fan or someone invested in the team would but its interesting.







Edited by tastybrownies (12/15/19 11:06 PM)
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#1707450 - 12/16/19 12:23 AM Re: Post game. [Re: Milk Man]
WSU Willie Offline

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Originally Posted By: Milk Man
j/c...



How many times this year has the proponent said or alluded-to that?

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#1707456 - 12/16/19 05:09 AM Re: Post game. [Re: Swish]
OldColdDawg Offline

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Meh, baker will be fine eventually. He was deadly accurate last year and we have only seen glimpses of that this year. And even though he had limited reps early last year, he had much more chemistry with the WRs, timing his throws and throwing strikes. Those skills don't just disappear. Something has them off.

Rather they keep Fred or not, I think the QB coach WRs coach and both coordinators should be shown the door. If Fred is still here next year it should only be if he's given up play calling. Personally I'd prefer a new HC but I will understand if they stick with him another year or two. After we gave Chud a one and done our HC job became toxic. Last year we had HCs wanting to come here. I prefer the later.

At this point it's easy to see somethings off and I think it's the OC and DC more than anything. I know Fred is not that involved on the D side yet we have been wildly inconsistent on D. The O isn't working either, but I think it's more to do with scheme and fitting plays to the talent. This is not an air raid team, period. Run first and play action, that's what works for us. Then Bakers deep stuff will open up a few times a game again. I think Monken worked too much of his stuff into the O, and Fred probably let him because he's more experienced. Fred was a position coach until mid year last year and had never been anything more than that. We were nuts to think he would just take the reins of the whole show and crush the league.

In Fred's defence I will say that he has learned some this year and with an off season to absorb the information he's learned he might be okay in the future, but I have my doubts. This year he was as raw an HC as you can get.


Edited by OldColdDawg (12/16/19 05:12 AM)
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#1707464 - 12/16/19 06:07 AM Re: Post game. [Re: Milk Man]
jfanent Offline

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So that's the second time we've heard that this year. What the hell is going on?
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#1707466 - 12/16/19 06:36 AM Re: Post game. [Re: WSU Willie]
MemphisBrownie Offline

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Originally Posted By: WSU Willie
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
j/c...



How many times this year has the proponent said or alluded-to that?


How many times have fans said this from their couch! Haha.
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#1707468 - 12/16/19 06:47 AM Re: Post game. [Re: Rishuz]
keithfromxenia Offline
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anyone who watched that game and came away from it with baker was the problem has a variation of that new political disease, baker derangement syndrome, or bds. And to suggest that our defense absolutely sucked because they did not think baker could keep up is just a symptom of the disease.

With the exception of nick, our offense has never looked right. Compared to last season it has looked stagnant and uninspired. Not sure you can isolate one cause but I do not think playcalling is one of them.

Twenty plus years ago my college basketball team had a young guard who started for 2-3 years and was a good player for us. The next season he was the 13th player on the bench and almost never got into games. And it was not because better players were recruited to the team. No one outside the team ever found out what happened. That situation reminded me of r. Higgins. I thought he was going to be a real factor in our offense and he has disappeared from view. That has been a real disappointment. I am sure he will be gone after the season.

I am sure he will be gone after the season. I wonder if he will comment on what happened

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#1707472 - 12/16/19 07:32 AM Re: Post game. [Re: lampdogg]
devicedawg Offline

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Originally Posted By: lampdogg
Baker isn’t the problem.



I'm not concerned about Baker at all. I would agree that the coaching is an issue with him. I always have hope that will improve, but I'm starting to get leery.

Baker is the same quarterback as he was last year. He's not as inaccurate as everyone claims. I've never seen a team lineup improperly as much as we have. It's week 15 and the players still don't know what they're doing, where to line up, what route to run.

Does Baker throw bad passes? All quarterbacks do.

And this whole Baker has regressed stuff is for the birds. Aside from Lamar and a few others, there are quite a bit of quarterbacks who have regressed this year... Goff, Brady, Rivers, Rodgers, Mahomes...

I think it's ridiculous where some of our fans have gotten. Some are impatient as the owner. Brees's first two seasons as the starter he had 28 touchdowns and 31 interceptions. I know he hurt his shoulder, but imagine if the chargers never gave up on him...

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#1707477 - 12/16/19 07:57 AM Re: Post game. [Re: Swish]
Bull_Dawg Offline
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Some of you are being a bit ridiculous it seems. We've got issues on both lines now. When you lose in the trenches, you get whooped. We knew we could use an upgrade at both OT spots coming into the season, and now Tretter has been effectively playing on one leg recently. Tretter and McCray are the only ones really familiar with the way Campen wants things done.

On defense, we're missing our top 2 DEs, one of whom is usually our most impactful defender. We're also giving a good bit of playing time to guys who weren't on any active rosters and who aren't familiar with the system all along the DL. Lack of pass rush is leading to softer coverage and longer amounts of time DBs have to stay in it.

It's easy to blame Freddie and coaching, but how do you predict something like a helmet swing? How do you overcome underperforming and/or not very talented lines? Lines that are still adjusting to new ways of doing things? A top receiver who has missed a ton of practice time and is trying to play hurt?

It's been/gotten pretty miserable, but I think people are succumbing to recency bias. We beat the "world beater" Ravens earlier in the season. We've seen 0-16 teams in the past that couldn't beat bottomfeeders.

We struggled early in the season when lots of new pieces were trying to gel (especially on the coaching side, how did we expect run formation Freddie vs throw heavy Monken to not take some time?), then we started to roll a little bit, then we lost our pass rush and the OL got banged up and we inevitably struggled, now we're looking at missing the playoffs after Super Bowl aspirations and the losing got to/is getting to people.

Another change in coaching would mean another adjustment period. Another adjustment period would probably start with more losing. I think we have to give Freddie another year. Just getting Myles back should help a lot. Same if we can shore up even one of the OT spots.

Does Freddie have things he needs to improve on? Yes, but he can focus on them in the off-season. He will have a better grasp on what he didn't know that he didn't know. Isn't year 2 often the biggest jump?

Time management, discipline, these are things that should improve. Having the Myles' example should make discipline fairly easy.

Maybe bring in an Urban Meyer in the off-season to consult on sports psychology for a week or two.

Worrying about losing his job/people calling for his head isn't going to help him coach any better. In fact, it'll probably make it harder. Players will hear it, too, and it'll give them an excuse to shift blame off themselves.

Everyone in the organization needs to do better. It's a lot easier to improve with support.

Did Freddie get promoted too soon? Probably, but that doesn't mean he won't grow into it. Lots of great first time coaches struggled at first. Very few first time coaches got thrown into situations that have been as historically disfunctional as the (recent) Browns.
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#1707481 - 12/16/19 08:14 AM Re: Post game. [Re: Bull_Dawg]
devicedawg Offline

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If we're not changing coaches or GMs every few years, we're not doing it right.

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#1707493 - 12/16/19 08:53 AM Re: Post game. [Re: devicedawg]
Bard Dawg Offline

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Grass is always greener. But that's not Berea. lame.
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#1707498 - 12/16/19 09:02 AM Re: Post game. [Re: Swish]
GratefulDawg Offline

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#1707504 - 12/16/19 09:15 AM Re: Post game. [Re: GratefulDawg]
Milk Man Offline

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Freddie's weekly fireable play call...


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#1707506 - 12/16/19 09:18 AM Re: Post game. [Re: Bull_Dawg]
WSU Willie Offline

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I really want to think like you laid out there...I really do.

But FK's team is not showing any improvement and the only thing we do reasonably well is kick & punt...and we have plenty of talent.

In the first quarter yesterday we had to burn a timeout because we couldn't get out of the huddle fast enough...again...in game #14. All throughout the game, Baker was having to tell guys where to line up...again. We actually got a delay of game penalty on offense to START a quarter...in game #14...to START a quarter. I think that's a new one...remarkably.

I'm a fan of continuity...but continuity of WHAT? We don't do anything well and insist on stubbornly doubling down on poor play-calling WITH poor execution.

There is almost nothing to like.

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#1707508 - 12/16/19 09:24 AM Re: Post game. [Re: Milk Man]
Dawgs4Life Offline

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Lol that was a comedy act
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#1707510 - 12/16/19 09:38 AM Re: Post game. [Re: Swish]
Damanshot Offline

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Originally Posted By: Swish
This can’t be it. There’s just now way this is the best this team can do with all this talent.

I’m just at a loss for words.


Lots of individual talent on this team... I believe that..

So what's missing? perhaps someone to bring them together and meet the potential.,.

I really like Kitchens as a guy but I just don't see him bringing them together...

How about Urban Meyer?
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#1707512 - 12/16/19 09:42 AM Re: Post game. [Re: Bull_Dawg]
Damanshot Offline

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That's all well and good, but how do you explain the first half of the season when we were mostly healthy?
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#1707517 - 12/16/19 10:10 AM Re: Post game. [Re: Milk Man]
leadtheway Offline

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Originally Posted By: Milk Man
Freddie's weekly fireable play call...



never mind hunt just standing there wide open
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#1707520 - 12/16/19 10:26 AM Re: Post game. [Re: WSU Willie]
Dave Offline

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Besides the poor clock management, there are consistent head scratchers in play calling. Two plays yesterday put my blood pressure to the ceiling: the obligatory/weekly shovel pass on 3rd and 2, and the play that schemed for Demetrius Harris to block the Cardinals' sack leader, Chandler Jones, one-on-one. Mayfield got obliterated on that play. I was actually surprised he got up after that hit. Greg Robinson and Demetrius Harris together *might* have a chance against Chandler Jones. Harris alone had no chance. Just like last week against the Bengals when "somebody" thought it was a good idea to isolate TE Stephen Carlson in pass protection against Carlos Dunlap. Carlson whiffed, much like Harris did yesterday, and Baker took a huge hit then too.

The point is there comes a time when you say "this isn't working" and you stop doing it. But Freddie never seems to reach that point. He is either stubborn to a fault, or just stupid, and I don't think he's stupid. But we're entering the week of the 15th game, and I don't see any improvement or growth.

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#1707521 - 12/16/19 10:31 AM Re: Post game. [Re: Swish]
DeisleDawg Offline

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Realistically 6-10 7-9 8-8 was where I believed this team would end up. Hyped expectations were winning the AFCN.


What the biggest problem is the lack of urgency and desire to win in order to keep play-off hopes alive. Watching uninspired football over and over is damaging my fandom and heart for the team.

It's hard to explain.. this team was close..but yet for some reason i don't care to watch the same story season after season .

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