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RedBaron #1856162 04/03/21 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted By: RedBaron
Reiff is turning 33 and signed a one-year contract.

I think Mike Brown saw his life flash before his eyes when Burrow went down.


Then he's a complete idiot. Everybody and their brother knew Burrow was a season ending injury waiting to happen.


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cfrs15 #1856186 04/03/21 02:57 PM
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Burrow all season was trying to play hero ball. He put himself in a lot of risky situation all in the name of trying to make a play. It was only inevitable for him to get hurt at some point.

The Collector #1856396 04/05/21 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted By: The Collector
Burrow all season was trying to play hero ball. He put himself in a lot of risky situation all in the name of trying to make a play. It was only inevitable for him to get hurt at some point.
I’ve actually seen Mahomes do this more recently too. He’s gotta be more pocket oriented moving forward (and, yes, his OL had a lot to do with that)


"First down inside the 10. A score here likely puts us in the Super Bowl. Landry is far to the left as Hooper settles into the slot. OBJ is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Hunt are split in the backfield as Baker takes the snap ... Here we go."
cfrs15 #1856406 04/05/21 02:12 PM
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This is quite true... Mahomes, if you watch his drop back.. it's the farthest than any QB... he doesn't like to climb the pocket. He dips out back given his athletisim and then will try to turn it up field.

If you bracket him rather than rush him... you're more likely to get the sack. Because your defenders are playing for territory.

Granted he's such a damn athlete that he was able to hit people in their hands as he was falling to the ground... but that's something else entirely

Since the game was on the line and it was the last game of the year he did far more to force the ball to people. If it were a regular season game and they were getting mauled like they were. You'd have seen a bit more conservative play from them IMO. Lots more throwing the ball away likely.



Last edited by The Collector; 04/05/21 02:15 PM.
The Collector #1856416 04/05/21 02:56 PM
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Not sure if you're arguing that it's his fault, but with the team that he had I think it's perfectly normal that he felt he had to put the team on his back.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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oobernoober #1856421 04/05/21 03:13 PM
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And thus the conundrum of differing opinions. Some people fell that being a good leader means putting it all on the line each and every down to set an example to your team mates. To show them your heart and grit. Some think a better form of leadership is to realize that you have to be there for your team moving forward because without you they stand no chance. That you should protect yourself with that in mind. The "live to fight another day" perspective.


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cfrs15 #1856435 04/05/21 04:00 PM
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You know my love will Not Fade Away.........


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GratefulDawg #1856436 04/05/21 04:00 PM
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So QBs go at least 1-3.

GratefulDawg #1856437 04/05/21 04:01 PM
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I would have held out for a bag of Tostitos, too.


Fear us, for we have Hughlett

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

PrplPplEater #1856441 04/05/21 04:09 PM
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j/c...



.....


Milk Man #1856443 04/05/21 04:27 PM
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To follow up on that, Ryan Tannehill in 2019 and 2020 averaged 91.4 (90.3 and 92.5).

It'll be interesting to watch how Darnold does in the next two seasons.


Fear us, for we have Hughlett

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

PrplPplEater #1856445 04/05/21 04:36 PM
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Yep. Everybody had him as the best prospect coming out that year but we went with Baker and I'm glad we did. Rosen was supposed to be the most NFL ready but Darnold had the most upside... Mayfield, Allen, and JacKson were the risky picks at QB... I still think the 2018 QB draft class will be one of the best in a decade or more.


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OldColdDawg #1856447 04/05/21 04:44 PM
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j/c...


OldColdDawg #1856449 04/05/21 04:49 PM
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I thought it was obvious that Jackson and Allen had more upside, they just also had way more risk.

cfrs15 #1856451 04/05/21 04:58 PM
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"Everybody had him as the best prospect coming out that year".

Uhhh, no.

Milk Man #1856452 04/05/21 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted By: Milk Man
j/c...



That'll right a whole lotta wrongs.


Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.

John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
cfrs15 #1856453 04/05/21 05:03 PM
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Colin must be crying on Joy's shoulder.

YTownBrownsFan #1856454 04/05/21 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted By: YTownBrownsFan
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
j/c...



That'll right a whole lotta wrongs.


crazy amounts of opportunities


Waiting for the day my name will mean something
superbowldogg #1856456 04/05/21 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted By: superbowldogg
Originally Posted By: YTownBrownsFan
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
j/c...



That'll right a whole lotta wrongs.


crazy amounts of opportunities


I remember when we were winning the draft year after year and being trash. I get why people like draft picks but you still gotta hit on them.



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superbowldogg #1856457 04/05/21 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted By: superbowldogg
Originally Posted By: YTownBrownsFan
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
j/c...



That'll right a whole lotta wrongs.


crazy amounts of opportunities


And yet it can still end up as a Manziel /Gilbert type first round.
Yikes our GMs were awful.


GratefulDawg #1856469 04/05/21 06:48 PM
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Sam Darnold is 23 years old.

In my opinion he never had a chance in NY.

It was an impossible task given all the circumstances that were there when he was drafted. He had zero support. A horrible line in front. No receivers. and no running backs worth much.

In addition Adam Gase was a disaster as a head coach.

I do not know much about the Panthers. However, It is my belief that if they surround Darnold with some weapons.
He has a chance to still become a good quarterback.

I do not think any of the quarterbacks in that draft going to NY would have succeeded until the team improved overall.

Last edited by bonefish; 04/05/21 07:09 PM.
bonefish #1856473 04/05/21 07:43 PM
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Agreed. I was very happy we didn’t end up with him in that draft considering a lot of people had him pegged coming to Cleveland. That was the last year I really spent a good bit of free time watching games of QB prospects and I didn’t like him. I’m no QB expert but the interviews and the games just left me tepid.

All that said... I live in NY area and have watched a bunch of Jets games and the problems here were not primarily his IMO. Gase was an unmitigated disaster of Brownsian proportions. He might have a little rise into the upper echelons of decent to pretty good in Carolina. He’s still so young, who knows.

And as others have noted, that’s a nice draft accumulation for NY but at the end of the day no one knows as well as we about the futility of volume over value in the draft. How many years did I think we just HAVE to hit on one or two this year with how many picks we have. Yea, well...




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YTownBrownsFan #1856539 04/06/21 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted By: YTownBrownsFan
Originally Posted By: Milk Man
j/c...



That'll right a whole lotta wrongs.


... or.....

:-p


You need a draft that lines up with your draft ammo (some drafts are relative duds), and you need someone who can cash in on those picks. Nobody bats 1.00, but you need someone that won't flub those blue-chip picks and will hit on at least half of the round 2-4 picks.


There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.

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bonefish #1856547 04/06/21 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted By: bonefish
Sam Darnold is 23 years old.

In my opinion he never had a chance in NY.

It was an impossible task given all the circumstances that were there when he was drafted. He had zero support. A horrible line in front. No receivers. and no running backs worth much.

In addition Adam Gase was a disaster as a head coach.

I do not know much about the Panthers. However, It is my belief that if they surround Darnold with some weapons.
He has a chance to still become a good quarterback.

I do not think any of the quarterbacks in that draft going to NY would have succeeded until the team improved overall.


I felt the same way about Darnold.. I don't know what the finished product will look like,, but I don't believe he is as bad as his record with the Jets.. Hopefully for him, he'll go to the Panthers and they'll put some things around him to help.

The Jets sure didn't


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Given the mess Adam Gase had going on there I honestly don't think anybody would have fared much better.

He is only 23. He now has some experience under his belt.

Actually I am surprised there was not more interest in him?

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j/c

Darnold has been wildly over-rated since his awesome Freshman year...seems like a good guy (like Ogunjobi), but he's simply not very good.

WSU Willie #1856569 04/06/21 11:24 AM
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I have no crystal ball.

But at 23 I do not think given the circumstances that it is fare to write him off.

bonefish #1856579 04/06/21 11:59 AM
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Player development is key to success especially with a QB.

That said I think at 23 Darnold is a chance I would most certainly take. I think Gase was a horrible coach for a young QB, hell if I recall he said he thinks he ruined Darnold.

The Panthers were in no mans land for getting a blue chip QB this was a solid move by them. I think Darnold will be very motivated to prove the Jets made the wrong move.

If the Panthers are smart they get someone to work with Darnold who is well known that can get him moving in the right direction.

We are lucky I think we have 2 coaches that are great teachers and understand how to build up a QB and bring out the best in them. We see that with Bake and it truly is paying off.


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No disagreement on that...I don't think he should have been drafted anywhere near as high as he was...that's not his fault.

A less clusterfart as his coach and he may be a viable NFL backup...I just don't think the guy has it.

WSU Willie #1856587 04/06/21 12:31 PM
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That draft I did a deep dive with every qb prospect.

Darnold showed many talents. Especially the ability to make big plays while in motion.

In many ways he is similar to Ryan Tannehill. Tannehill was a converted TE. Both guys are very athletic.

Sam also had great leadership qualities. Hard worker. Well liked by teammates.

I am very glad the Steelers did not go after him.

We shall see what the future holds.

It is crazy how guys like Jameis, Goff, Mariotta, Rosen, Wentz, RGIII guys who cam into the league with lots of promise are tossed aside so quickly.

Many a GM has lost their jobs on picking QB's.

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I think the most rational thing to say about the Darnold situation is that Adam Gase should not be responsible for the development of a QB. He is simply not effective.

Too many instances. I like Darnold. I hope he is treated better than he was in NY. I believe he would have done better with a different organization.


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Originally Posted By: oobernoober
Not sure if you're arguing that it's his fault, but with the team that he had I think it's perfectly normal that he felt he had to put the team on his back.


Hero ball in the Super Bowl to win it all? Do what you can. There were several times where he hit his receivers dead in the hands and they didn't catch it. But it came off of forcing the throw into a difficult or ill advised situation.

Hero ball in the 4th game of the season against a team that just has a better matchup against you?... play for another day...

I don't think it's bad to force things. However it's situational.

Take Carson Wentz for example. [video:youtube]https://youtu.be/OD2qmLoMh4k?t=581[/video]

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Add Trubisky to that list.

Mind boggling that so much research goes into the evaluations and still so many never reach expectations.


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I think it's very problematic based on the college game. Very few colleges run the pro style offense anymore. Many college defenses are also pretty basic.

That makes it very hard to project how a QB will transition to the NFL. It was already hard enough before because the pro game is so much faster it's always been hard to predict if a QB can speed up the time in which it takes him to process information and learn to read far more complicated defenses.

This only helped raise the difficulty factor.


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That has to be part of it.

In addition I believe quarterbacks are overvalued because teams become desperate to fill that need.

I confess I only watch college when reviewing tape of prospects for the NFL.

One thing stands out. Open in college is way different than open in the NFL. Open in the NFL is considered covered in college.

The windows are way smaller. College ball they put up gaudy numbers. Quarterbacks come to the NFL and get run down by DE and LB's. A 260 pound guy ran a 4.38. That is sick.

Odell is fast and quick. And he is not the only receiver who is. Yet in routes open is a step.

I really believed in Mariota. He was big, smart, fast, and accurate. Teammates loved the guy. Yet in the NFL he has had minimal success.

Then you have a guy like Kurt Warner. Whose story is truly amazing.

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A desperate need at the position is certainly another reason teams take chances on drafting QB's early in the draft. And the size of NFL windows is another good point.


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cfrs15 #1856635 04/06/21 03:20 PM
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I am surprised that Houston didn't trade for Darnold


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bonefish #1856637 04/06/21 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted By: bonefish

Add Trubisky to that list.

Mind boggling that so much research goes into the evaluations and still so many never reach expectations.



They need to spend more time evaluating the coach and his ability to bring a young guy along. That is the mistake IMO. Keep it simple stupid comes to mind.


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The Jets are an example of what happens often.

High pick quarterbacks go to teams that are really bad.

Then they get pushed to start before they are ready. With little support and a overall poor roster. They lose.

Then their confidence gets worked over.

The process to get to the major leagues in baseball is way different.

Guys get drafted out of high school. Or, in Latin America they sign early and are brought along in camps.

Then they spend years in the minors being coached extensively. They face like type competition.

When called up they may have already had some short looks in spring or were called up in late fall.

They are well prepared before they play in the big leagues.

College football is the pipeline period. Now plenty of guys declare early.

Churn and burn in the NFL.

superbowldogg #1856666 04/06/21 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted By: superbowldogg
I am surprised that Houston didn't trade for Darnold


Why? they are going to be awful no matter who is at QB... why give up draft capital (which they don't have) when you're going to be in total rebuild mode... I think Texans should hope Watson gets suspended for only this season (or part of this season) and then they can try to put some pieces together in the next two years...

Last edited by jaybird; 04/06/21 10:34 PM.

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